19400820_senate_15_164.xml

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  <session.header>
    <date>1940-08-20</date>
    <parliament.no>15</parliament.no>
    <session.no>2</session.no>
    <period.no>2</period.no>
    <chamber>SENATE</chamber>
    <page.no>380</page.no>
    <proof>0</proof>
  </session.header>
  <chamber.xscript>
    <para class="block">Senate. </para>
    <business.start>
      <day.start>1940-08-20</day.start>
      <para>The <inline font-weight="bold">President (Senator the Hon.J. B. Hayes)</inline> took the chair at 3 p.m., and read prayers. </para>
    </business.start>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTION</title>
        <page.no>380</page.no>
        <type>Questions</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>TELEGRAPH DEPARTMENT BOOKLET</title>
          <page.no>380</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>380</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KQF</name.id>
              <electorate>TASMANIA</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">LAMP, Charles</name>
              <name role="display">Senator LAMP</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- I ask the Minister  representing the Postmaster-General whether he has seen the booklet, issued by his department, entitled the <inline font-style="italic">Commonwealth Telegraph Network?</inline> If so, can he explain why the State of Tasmania was omitted from the map? </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>380</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KOL</name.id>
              <electorate>SOUTH AUSTRALIA</electorate>
              <party>UAP</party>
              <role>Minister Assisting the Minister for Commerce</role>
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">MCBRIDE, Philip</name>
              <name role="display">Senator McBRIDE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- I have seen the booklet referred to. I can offer no explanation of the omission. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTION</title>
        <page.no>380</page.no>
        <type>Questions</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>WOOL APPRAISEMENT CENTRES</title>
          <page.no>380</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>380</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KKR</name.id>
              <electorate>WESTERN AUSTRALIA</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">FRASER, James</name>
              <name role="display">Senator FRASER</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- In view of the decision of the Minister for Commerce not to receive a deputation of members representing Western Australia in order to discuss the proposal for establishing wool appraisement centres at Albany and Geraldton, I ask the Minister representing the Minister  for Commerce whether he will make a statement on the subject before the adjournment of Parliament, and indicate whether or not the Government approves of the proposal? </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>381</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KOL</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>UAP</party>
              <role />
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">MCBRIDE, Philip</name>
              <name role="display">Senator McBRIDE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- The matter mentioned by the honorable senator is under consideration. I understand that a statement relating to it will be made by the Minister for Commerce before the adjournment of Parliament. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTION</title>
        <page.no>381</page.no>
        <type>Questions</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>MB. B. S. B. STEVENS</title>
          <page.no>381</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>381</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>K0W</name.id>
              <electorate>NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">ASHLEY, William</name>
              <name role="display">Senator ASHLEY</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- I ask the Leader of the Senate: (1) Can he inform the Senate whether the Prime Minister invited <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Stevens,</inline> the ex-Premier of New South Wales, to confer with him with regard to the appointment of business men to the Cabinet; (2) if such action is contemplated, does the Prime Minister propose to give equitable representation to New South Wales? </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>381</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KUA</name.id>
              <electorate>SOUTH AUSTRALIA</electorate>
              <party>UAP</party>
              <role>Minister for Trade and Customs</role>
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">MCLEAY, George</name>
              <name role="display">Senator McLEAY</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- That is a matter for the Prime Minister to determine, but I can say on his behalf that he did not invite <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Stevens.</inline></para>
          </talk.start>
          <para class="block">NEW BUSINESS AFTER 10.30 p.m. </para>
          <para>Motion (by <inline font-weight="bold">Senator McLeay)</inline> agreed to - </para>
          <quote>
            <para>That Standing Order No. 68 be suspended up to and including the 29th August next, to enable new business to be commenced after half-past ten o&#39;clock at night. </para>
          </quote>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTION</title>
        <page.no>381</page.no>
        <type>Questions</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>APPLE AND PEAR CROP</title>
          <page.no>381</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>381</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KOJ</name.id>
              <electorate>TASMANIA</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">HAYS, Herbert</name>
              <name role="display">Senator HERBERT HAYS</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- I ask the Assistant Minister for Commerce whether an agreement has been reached for the marketing of next season&#39;s apple and pear crop, and if so, will the Minister make a statement on the subject before the adjournment of Parliament? </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>381</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KOL</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>UAP</party>
              <role />
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">MCBRIDE, Philip</name>
              <name role="display">Senator McBRIDE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- That subject was discussed at the recent meeting of the Australian Agricultural Council in Sydney. Certain proposals were put forward by the Commonwealth, and, subject to further discussion on minor points, were agreed to by the representatives of the States. There will be another meeting of the council to consider those details, and it is hoped that a statement on the subject will be made at an early date. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>RAND WICKREPATRIATION HOSPITAL</title>
        <page.no>381</page.no>
        <type>miscellaneous</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Report of Public Works Committee</title>
          <page.no>381</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <para>
          <inline font-weight="bold">Senator BRAND</inline>laid on the table the report of the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Public Works relating to the proposed erection of theRepatriation Hospital atRandwick, New South Wales. </para>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>LEAGUE OF NATIONS ASSEMBLY</title>
        <page.no>381</page.no>
        <type>miscellaneous</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <para>report of Australian Delegates. </para>
      <speech>
        <talk.start>
          <talker>
            <page.no>381</page.no>
            <time.stamp />
            <name.id>K7M</name.id>
            <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
            <party>UAP</party>
            <role>Vice President of the Executive Council</role>
            <in.gov>1</in.gov>
            <first.speech>0</first.speech>
            <name role="metadata">COLLETT, Herbert</name>
            <name role="display">Senator COLLETT</name>
          </talker>
          <para>. - I lay on the table the report of the Australian delegates to the 20th Assembly of the League of Nations which met at Geneva from the 11th to the 18th December, 1939. </para>
        </talk.start>
        <para>Ordered to be printed. </para>
      </speech>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTION</title>
        <page.no>381</page.no>
        <type>Questions</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>FREE TRANSPORT FOR SOLDIERS</title>
          <page.no>381</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>381</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>K0Z</name.id>
              <electorate>TASMANIA</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">AYLETT, William</name>
              <name role="display">Senator AYLETT</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- Are negotiations in progress between the Commonwealth Government and the Governments of the States regarding the provision of free transport for soldiers when on week-end leave? If so, has any result been obtained ? </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>381</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>JZD</name.id>
              <electorate>QUEENSLAND</electorate>
              <party>UAP</party>
              <role>Minister for the Interior</role>
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">FOLL, Hattil</name>
              <name role="display">Senator FOLL</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- Negotiations are in progress at the present time in respect of that matter. I shall endeavour to obtain information for the honorable senator as to what is being done regarding it in Tasmania. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>DEATH OF COLONEL JAMES ROWELL, C.B</title>
        <page.no>381</page.no>
        <type>miscellaneous</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <para>The PRE SIDENT.- I have received from the relatives of the late Colonel JamesRowell, C.B., a letter of thanks and appreciation for the resolution of sympathy and condolence passed by the Senate on the 7th August last. </para>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTION</title>
        <page.no>381</page.no>
        <type>Questions</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>AUSTRALIAN WHEAT BOARD</title>
          <page.no>381</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>381</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>K0Z</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">AYLETT, William</name>
              <name role="display">Senator AYLETT</name>
            </talker>
            <para>asked the Minister representing the Treasurer, <inline font-style="italic">upon notice -</inline></para>
          </talk.start>
          <list type="decimal-dotted">
            <item label="1.">
              <para>What is the total amount of credit loaned by the Commonwealth Bank to the Australian Wheat Board? </para>
            </item>
            <item label="2.">
              <para>How much of that amount has been recovered by the sale of wheat? </para>
            </item>
          </list>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>382</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KOL</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>UAP</party>
              <role />
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">MCBRIDE, Philip</name>
              <name role="display">Senator McBRIDE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- The Treasurer has supplied the following answers :  - </para>
          </talk.start>
          <para class="block">
            <graphic href="164332194008205_2_0.jpg" />
          </para>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>COMMONWEALTH ELECTORAL (WAR-TIME) BILL 1940</title>
        <page.no>382</page.no>
        <type>bill</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <para>Motion (by <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Foll)</inline> agreed to - </para>
      <quote>
        <para>That leave be given to introduce a bill for an act to make provision, for the duration of the present war and six months thereafter, relating to elections and referendums. </para>
      </quote>
      <para class="block">Bill brought up, and read a first time. </para>
      <para class="block">Standing and Sessional Orders suspended. </para>
      <para>Secondreading. </para>
      <speech>
        <talk.start>
          <talker>
            <page.no>382</page.no>
            <time.stamp />
            <name.id>JZD</name.id>
            <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
            <party>UAP</party>
            <role>Minister for the Interior</role>
            <in.gov>1</in.gov>
            <first.speech>0</first.speech>
            <name role="metadata">FOLL, Hattil</name>
            <name role="display">Senator FOLL</name>
          </talker>
          <para>. - I move - </para>
        </talk.start>
        <quote>
          <para>That the bill be now read a second time. </para>
        </quote>
        <para class="block">This is mainly a machinery measure, and is mostly self-explanatory. Its sole purpose is to provide means whereby members of the Defence Forces, on service outside Australia, or who have returned from such service too late to secure enrolment in the usual way, may record their votes at Commonwealth elections and referendums held during the war period. </para>
        <para>Subject to sub-section 4 of section 39 of the Commonwealth Electoral Act - which disqualifies persons of unsound mind, or those attainted of treason or undergoing a term of imprisonment - clause 6 of the bill sets out that a member of the forces, who is not under the age of 21 years, and who is serving outside Australia, or has returned therefrom and is not enrolled as an elector, shall be entitled to vote for the division in which he was ordinarily resident immediately prior to his appointment or enlistment, or, in the case of a permanent member, immediately prior to the outbreak of war. This provision is analogous to that in the Canadian law under which at the recent dominion elections every active service elector was entitled to vote for the district in which he was ordinarily resident immediately preceding the date of his appointment, enlistment, or calling up. </para>
        <para>Part II. of the bill relates to voting by members of the forces overseas, and, in general, prescribes the manner in which the votes will be recorded and dealt with. Commonwealth returning officers will be appointed, where necessary, and each of these officers will be required, as far as the exigencies of war operations permit, to supply the requisite voting material to the commanding officers of the respective units serving in the area under his control. </para>
        <para>It is provided in the bill that, immediately after the close of nominations in a general election, the Chief Electoral Officer shall notify each Commonwealth returning officer of the names, addresses and occupations of the Senate candidates for the respective States, grouped as required, and of the House ofRepresentatives candidates for all divisions of the Commonwealth, so that the CommonwealthReturning Officer may forthwith cause to be printed a list of all of the candidates, with their addresses and occupations, and supply copies of the list to each unit for the information of voters. </para>
        <para>With regard to the ballot-papers, it is intended that each CommonwealthReturning Officer shall, as soon as possible after receipt of the Chief Electoral Officer&#39;s notification of the names, obtain a supply of Senate ballot-papers for each State, fully printed with the names of the candidates in the order and grouped as directed. The House ofRepresentatives ballot-paper, however, will be printed in blank, but the names of the candidates for the division will be written in by the officer designated to take the votes of members of the forces attached to the unit before he issues the ballot-paper to the voter. Unless time will permit of the requisite declaration envelopes being supplied from Australia, these also will be obtained by the CommonwealthReturning Officer at his local centre. </para>
        <para>Clause 10 of the bill provides that the commanding officer of each unit shall designate one or more commissioned officers before whom the members of the forces attached to the unit may record their votes, that he shall hand over to such officer or officers the voting material received from the CommonwealthReturning Officer, and that he shall notify in orders where, before whom, on what days, and during what hours, votes may be recorded. </para>
        <para>The manner in which the votes shall be recorded is set out in clause 11. In general the procedure prescribed is virtually the same as that under which an elector votes as an absent voter at a polling booth in Australia. The votes, when recorded, will be placed in the envelopes, bearing the declaration of the voters, and these will be delivered at the earliest practicable time to the commanding officer, who shall, as provided in clause 12, forthwith cause them to be transmitted to the Commonwealth Returning Officer. </para>
        <para>Clause 13 prescribes the action to be taken by the Commonwealth Returning Officer in respect of all envelopes received by him prior to the close of the poll, and clause 14 sets out that, as soon as practicable after the close of the poll, he shall take from the ballot-box, or other receptacle, all envelopes which have been accepted, sort them into separate parcels according to the divisions indicated in the voters declarations, and, in the prescribed manner, extract the ballot-papers and proceed with the scrutiny. The regulations will prescribe the manner in which the ballot-papers shall be extracted and the scrutiny carried out. The procedure will be closely akin to that employed in relation to postal and absent votes in Australia, so as to ensure strict adherence to the principle of the secrecy of the ballot. </para>
        <para>Upon the completion of the scrutiny of the votes dealt with by him, each Commonwealth returning officer will notify the Chief Electoral Officer of the result thereof, and these results will be communicated to the divisional returning officers, who will include the results in the returns relating to their respective divisions. </para>
        <para>It is proposed that each Commonwealth returning officer shall count the first preference votes in respect of the Senate and the House of Representatives elections, and notify the Chief Electoral Officer of the result, but that, while retaining the House of Representatives ballot-papers for any further scrutiny and transfer of votes that may be required, he shall forthwith assemble and transmit by the most expeditious means practicable the parcels of Senate ballot-papers to the Commonwealth electoral officers for the respective States. There are two good reasons for the transmission of the Senate ballot- papers to Australia : First, owing to the complex nature of the preferential count in Senate elections, it is considered extremely doubtful whether the work could be effectively carried out overseas; and, secondly, it is confidently expected that by bringing the ballot-papers to Australia the final result of the elections will be determined considerably earlier than otherwise. This is due to the fact that upwards of twenty or more counts are usually involved, and, if every count had to be held up, awaiting the result of the count overseas in response to each direction, probably involving a delay of two days or so in each instance, it is not unlikely that the period occupied would run into something like two months. </para>
        <para>Part III. of the bill provides the means whereby  unenrolled  returned members of the forces may vote. This provision is designed especially to meet the case of  unenrolled  members who return too late to secure enrolment in the ordinary way, that is, immediately prior to an election. Any returned men who were formerly enrolled for their home addresses, and whose enrolments have been retained, may, of course, vote in respect of such enrolments, but if they are not so enrolled, they will have the right under this bill to vote in respect of the division in which they were ordinarily resident prior to appointment or enlistment in the forces. Any such  unenrolled  returned man may apply for a certificate and ballot-paper in much the same way as a postal voter, and the recording and scrutiny of the votes will be effected along the same lines as those obtaining in the case of postal votes. </para>
        <para>Under the miscellaneous clauses in Part IV. of the bill, it is provided that compulsory voting will not apply to members of the forces entitled to vote in pursuance of this measure. This is deemed necessary because war operations may preclude some members of the forces from having the opportunity to record their vote, and, in any case, it would be impracticable to apply the ordinary enforcement provisions. In addition, a saving provision is designed to prevent any challenge as to the validity of an election in consequence of any unavoidable failure or loss connected with the taking of the votes of members of the forces under this bill. A similar provision was embodied in the Electoral WarTime Act of 1917 and it will, I am sure, be appreciated that the hazards on this occasion are by no means less. I commend the bill to the Senate. </para>
        <para>Debate (on motion by <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Collings)</inline> adjourned. </para>
      </speech>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>GOLD MINING ENCOURAGEMENT BILL (No. 2) 1940</title>
        <page.no>384</page.no>
        <type>bill</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Second Reading</title>
          <page.no>384</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <para class="block">Debate resumed from the 8th August <inline font-style="italic">(vide</inline> page 324) on motion by <inline font-weight="bold">Senator McBride</inline> - </para>
        <quote>
          <para class="block">That the bill be now read a second time. </para>
        </quote>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>384</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>JTK</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">CUNNINGHAM, James</name>
              <name role="display">Senator CUNNINGHAM</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- The object of this measure is to remedy certain defects in the principal act. I have examined it carefully, and have found nothing in it to which exception could be taken. Indeed, the amendments are very desirable. The Opposition, therefore, supports the bill. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <para>Question resolved in the affirmative. </para>
          <para>Bill read a second time. </para>
          <para class="italic">
            <inline font-style="italic">In committee:</inline>
          </para>
          <para>Clauses 1 to 4 agreed to. </para>
          <para>Clause 5 (Accounting periods). </para>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>384</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KKR</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">FRASER, James</name>
              <name role="display">Senator FRASER</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - Some difficulty has been experienced by prospectors in obtaining refunds from the Taxation Department in respect of the first 25 oz. of gold produced. I do not blame the department in this regard, but merely take this opportunity to suggest a method by which such delays might be overcome. With <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Cunningham</inline> and two representatives of the prospectors, I have discussed this matter with officers of the Taxation Department. For instance, when a number of men are interested in the one claim, each has to prove his bona fides in respect of his share of the refund allowable on the one parcel of gold. It may happen, however, that the men may become widely separated, and, consequently, experience some difficulty in substantiating their respective claims to share in the refund. This difficulty might be overcome if the prospectors set out their respective shares, when insurance of the gold is being effected. This is usually done by telegram. Such information would guide the department in dealing with applications for refunds. At present the department is obliged to obtain this information from the prospector&#39;s agent, probably the local storekeeper, and this process involves considerable delay. I know of applications by prospectors, who are now members of the Australian Imperial Force, having been held up in this way. The department might look into my suggestion with a view to overcoming this disability of the prospectors. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>384</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KOL</name.id>
              <electorate>South AustraliaMinister for the Army and Minister for Repatriation</electorate>
              <party>UAP</party>
              <role />
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">MCBRIDE, Philip</name>
              <name role="display">Senator McBRIDE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - I am informed that a new form has been issued on which the individual shares in any particular parcel of gold are to be shown. However, I shall refer the honorable senator&#39;s suggestion to the Taxation Department for investigation. He will admit that it is the duty of the department to guard against malpractices on the part of prospectors in making claims for refund. I assure him that everything will be done to expedite the payment of refunds. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <para>Clause agreed to. </para>
          <para>Title agreed to. </para>
          <para>Bill reported without amendment; report adopted. </para>
          <para>Bill read a third time. </para>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>PAPUA BILL 1940</title>
        <page.no>384</page.no>
        <type>bill</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Second Reading</title>
          <page.no>384</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>384</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>K7M</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>UAP</party>
              <role>Vice-president of the Executive Council</role>
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">COLLETT, Herbert</name>
              <name role="display">Senator COLLETT</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- I move- </para>
          </talk.start>
          <quote>
            <para>That the bill be now read a second time. </para>
          </quote>
          <para class="block">Recently the Government appointed a committee to survey the possibility of establishing a combined administration for the adjoining territories of Papua and New Guinea. Whilst this committee did not report favorably on the establishment of a combined administration, the majority of its members stressed the desirability of obtaining a greater degree of uniformity between the laws and administrative methods of the two territories. With the exception of Papua, the chief executive officer of each of the external territories of the Commonwealth, and also of the Northern Territory, is  styled the Administrator, and it is proposed in this bill to change the designation of the head of the Papuan administration from that of Lieutenant-Governor to that of Administrator and so bring the territory of Papua into line with the other territories. At the same time, the opportunity is being taken to effect certain other amendments which experience has shown to be desirable, to correct certain minor errors of drafting, and to bring the Papua Act, which is actually the constitution of the Territory of Papua, still more closely into line with the constitution of the Mandated Territory of New Guinea as expressed in the New Guinea Act. </para>
          <para>The Papuan Public Service formerly contained an office of Administrator, the occupant of which was responsible for the administration of the territory during the inability or absence from the territory of the Lieutenant-Governor. In 1924 it was decided that the then occupant should continue in office, but that, upon his ceasing to hold that office, the senior official member of the Executive Council present in the territory should carry out such functions under the title of Acting Lieutenant-Governor, and the present provision in the act expresses this intention. The former occupant of the office of Administrator is no longer an officer of the territory, and the office has been permitted to lapse, as intended, so that it is now considered desirable to replace the former provision with one on the lines of that obtaining in New Guinea for the appointment of an Acting Administrator. Therefore the GovernorGeneral may appoint a person to act as Administrator whenever necessary, and, in default of any such appointment, the senior official member of the Executive Council present in the territory shall exercise and perform all the powers and functions of the Administrator. The appointment of an Acting Administrator during the absence of the Administrator from the territory shall not affect the exercise or performance by the Administrator himself of any power or function. </para>
          <para>At present a person may be appointed as the deputy of the LieutenantGovernor in any part of the terrritory. It is considered that provision should also be made for the appointment of a Deputy </para>
          <para class="block">Administrator in respect of the whole territory in order to facilitate administration when the Administrator is still in the territory, but is carrying out tours of inspection, and so is absent from the capital and centre of administration. </para>
          <para>Experience has shown that the procedure regarding suspensions from the Papuan Public Service could be improved. Under section  17  of the present act, the Lieutenant-Governor has the power to appoint, in the name of the Governor-General, and subject to subsequent confirmation, all necessary officers of the territory; and under section  18  he has the power to suspend officers for disciplinary reasons pending the GovernorGeneral&#39;s pleasure. In the matter of appointments, it as considered that the initial power of appointment should rest with the Governor-General, as in the case of other territorial services, and it is proposed to provide that the GovernorGeneral may appoint or may delegate to the Minister or the Administrator the power to appoint all necessary officers. The date of commencement of sections  7 and  8 of the amending bill are being fixed by proclamation in order to enable the consequential review of the Public Service Ordinance and Regulations of the territory to be effected, as further provisions relating to the procedure to be followed <inline font-style="italic">in</inline> regard to the appointment or suspension of officers are to be inserted  in  that legislation. </para>
          <para>The Papua Act at present provides that the Executive Council shall consist of  nine  members, one of whom must be a non-official member chosen by and from&#39; the five non-official members of the Legislative Council. The remaining  eight  official members are officers of the territory. The population of Papua at present comprises about  1,600  Europeans  and 300,000  natives. It is considered that greater elasticity should be permitted in the number of official members- on the council,  and,  accordingly, instead of the statutory obligation to have  an  Executive Council of nine members, it is proposed that that number should be a maximum, the actual number . of: members fluctuating between five and nine as may  be  necessary to meet the conditions of the territory. This amendment involves n consequential amendment of sub-section 3 of section 22 of the principal act. At present there is no provision for the appointment of a person to act in place of any official or non-official member of the Executive Council,  -who,  by reason  of  illness or absence from the territory, is unable to be present at a- council meeting, and it is therefore proposed that provision be made for the appointment of deputies of both the official and nonofficial members of the Executive Council. </para>
          <para>In view of the improvement of transport facilities, and the .progress of the territory, it is thought that copies of the minutes of the meetings of both the Executive and Legislative Councils should be supplied to the Minister at more frequent intervals than quarterly. It is now proposed that copies of such minutes should be forwarded as soon as practicable after each meeting. </para>
          <para>The existing term of the non-official members of the Legislative Council of Papua is six years, but it has been decided that this should be reduced to four years. It has also been thought desirable to provide for the appointment of extraordinary members of the Legislative Council. Such members would be persons who would be able to tender expert advice on any particular matter with which the council might be required to deal, but would not be entitled to vote or to be counted in any quorum of the council. The other amendment to be made to section 29 of the principal act is consequential on the proposal to provide for the appointment of deputies of the official members of the Executive Council. The Legislative Council of Papua, purporting to act under the powers given to it by section 34 of the Papua Act 1905- 1934, has made a standing order covering the time and place of meetings. Doubt has, however, been expressed as to whether section 34 of the act confers upon the Legislative Council power to deal with such a matter, and in order to clarify the position it has been decided to insert such a provision in the act. </para>
          <para>It has also been decided to alter the designation of the chief court of the territory from that  of  the Central Court  to  that of the Supreme Court. The court is vested with similar jurisdiction in  the  territory to that of a Supreme Court in  a  State  of  the Commonwealth.  The late </para>
          <para class="block">
            <inline font-weight="bold">Sir Hubert</inline>Murray occupied the office of Judge of the Central Court as well as that of Lieutenant-Governor. There is another judge in the territory. The salary paid to <inline font-weight="bold">Sir Hubert</inline> Murray was at the rate of &#163;1,800 per annum, but it is proposed that the salary  tO&#39;  be. assigned to the office of Administrator of Papua, who will not be required to perform judicial duties, should be at the rate of &#163;1,500 per annum. It is desirable that there should be freedom to vary the salaries of the administrator or a judge to meet conditions that may change from time to time, and it is therefore considered that approval for the fixation of such salaries should be within the power of the Governor-General in Council, so that an amendment of the act would not be necessary when changes of such salary were contemplated. Moreover, the salaries are to be appropriated from the revenue of the territories and not from the revenue of the Commonwealth. </para>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>386</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>K7P</name.id>
              <electorate>QueenslandLeader of the Opposition</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">COLLINGS, Joseph</name>
              <name role="display">Senator COLLINGS</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. -  This bill does not involve general principles that call for discussion at this stage. The Opposition has had an opportunity to examine the measure, and does not intend to oppose it. Those of us who have had an opportunity to follow closely affairs in Papua realize what a splendid public servant <inline font-weight="bold">Sir Hubert</inline> Murray was as administrator of that territory. I should like to pay a tribute to him, because we have had few men indeed who have been able to combine administrative and judicial functions so successfully as <inline font-weight="bold">Sir Hubert</inline> Murray did. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <para>After a first glance at the measure, I considered  that there was something wrong with the representation proposed; it is bad to have taxation without representation. But, on examining the matter further, I discovered that the people of Papua are in a very favorable situation because they are not called upon to pay any direct taxes at all. I regret that we in other parts of Australia are not in the same fortunate position. </para>
          <para>Question resolved in the affirmative. </para>
          <para>Bill read a second time. </para>
          <para class="italic">
            <inline font-style="italic">In committee:</inline>
          </para>
          <para>Clauses 1 to 13 agreed to. </para>
          <para>Clause 14 (Disallowance of ordinances assented to). </para>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>387</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>K7P</name.id>
              <electorate>QueenslandLeader of the Opposition</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">COLLINGS, Joseph</name>
              <name role="display">Senator COLLINGS</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - I take it that apart from the alteration of the title, no change of principle is involved in this clause, and that procedure will he the same as before. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>387</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K7M</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">COLLETT, Herbert</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Collett</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- That is so. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <para>Clause agreed to. </para>
          <para>Clause 15 (Appeal to High Court). </para>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>387</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>K7P</name.id>
              <electorate>QueenslandLeader of the Opposition</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">COLLINGS, Joseph</name>
              <name role="display">Senator COLLINGS</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - I should like the Minister in charge of the bill to explain this clause. My interpretation of it is that the right of appeal to the High Court will be eliminated, and instead there will be a right of appeal to the Supreme Court only. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>387</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K7M</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">COLLETT, Herbert</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Collett</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- No. There is to be an alteration of the title of the court in the Territory of Papua ; it will in future bo called the Supreme Court. The ultimate appeal to the High Court will remain. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>387</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K7P</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">COLLINGS, Joseph</name>
                <name role="display">Senator COLLINGS</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- An appeal may be made from the Supreme Court to the High Court? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>387</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K7M</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">COLLETT, Herbert</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Collett</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Yes. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <para>Clause agreed to. </para>
          <para>Clause 16 (Civil List). </para>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>387</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>K7P</name.id>
              <electorate>QueenslandLeader of the Opposition</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">COLLINGS, Joseph</name>
              <name role="display">Senator COLLINGS</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - Will the Minister tell us what the effect of this clause will he? </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>387</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>K7M</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>UAP</party>
              <role>Vice-President of the Executive Council</role>
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">COLLETT, Herbert</name>
              <name role="display">Senator COLLETT</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - Section 49 of the original act provides for the appropriation of moneys from territory revenues for the payment of the salaries of the LieutenantGovernor and judges. It provides also that when the offices of LieutenantGovernor and judge are held by the same person, that person shall be entitled to receive only the salary of LieutenantGovernor. This provision was inserted in the act at the request of the late Lieutenant-Governor, <inline font-weight="bold">Sir Hubert</inline> Murray, who carried out the duties of LieutenantGovernor and judge. In his dual capacity he was paid &#163;1,800 per annum. It is proposed that the salary of the Administrator shall be &#163;1,500 per annum. The salaries of the Administrators of other Commonwealth Territories are: - Northern Territory, &#163;1,200, and &#163;500 allowance; New Guinea, &#163;1,800; Nauru, &#163;1,250; and Norfolk Island, &#163;800. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <para>Clause agreed to. </para>
          <para>Title agreed to. </para>
          <para>Bill reported without amendment; report adopted. </para>
          <para>Bill read a third time. </para>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS</title>
        <page.no>387</page.no>
        <type>miscellaneous</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Ministerial Statement</title>
          <page.no>387</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <para>Debate resumed from the 7th August <inline font-style="italic">{vide</inline> page 244) on motion by <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Collett</inline> - </para>
        <quote>
          <para>That the paper be printed. </para>
        </quote>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>387</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KE4</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">KEANE, Richard</name>
              <name role="display">Senator KEANE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- With other honorable senators I listened with much interest to the statement of the Minister <inline font-weight="bold">(Senator Collett)</inline> giving information concerning the war activities of the Government. We on this side are in complete agreement with the Ministry in its decision to prosecute the war to a successful issue. The task of placing Australia on a war footing in a limited time is a colossal one, and I believe that that is recognized by all sections of the community. I am convinced also that, as the result of the measures adopted by the Government, Australia will, in future, be more selfcontained than it has been, and that before very long we shall be constructing aircraft of all descriptions, tanks, guns of all calibres, and, in fact, al&#93; kinds of munitions and equipment necessary for the effective defence of this country. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <para>In a question which I put to the Leader of the Senate recently, I inquired as to what steps the Government proposed to take to deal with the position of the 31,000 people who had registered for employment at the munitions establishments in Victoria. The Minister told me that the Government hoped, before long, to absorb the great majority of those workers. It had been my intention to say something on this subject last week in the debate on the motion by <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Amour</inline> for the disallowance of regulations under tha National Security Act, but the opportunity was denied me. I had intended to impress upon the Ministry the urgent need for immediate action to provide work for the huge number of men and women seeking employment in those establishments. In furtherance of its programme, the Government has decided to construct in South Australia defence establishments that may rival Maribyrnong, where employment is given to about 11,000 men and women. This will call for an adequate supply of industrial workers and will, no doubt, mean the transfer from other States of a large number of operatives. It is to be hoped that this transfer will be carried out without unnecessary friction. I have no doubt that scores of men will be glad to go from one State to another if they have a reasonable chance of regular work. In order to avoid hardship, the Government would do well to confer with leading union officials with a view to facilitating the transfer of the necessary labour for the various establishments. That the transfer to South Australia of a large number will be necessary is obvious, because it would not be wide of the mark to say that not more than oneeighth of the required labour is available in South Australia at the present time. This transfer of households from one State to another is a tremendous undertaking. </para>
          <para>I think that most honorable senators were stunned at the gravity of the international situation, as revealed in . the statement of the Minister. The present fear is that the world situation has deteriorated since that statement was made. Consequently the Government is faced with a task of unprecedented magnitude. We have been told that this country is already committed to an expenditure, for war purposes, of &#163;453,000,000, spread over three years. In this connexion, I was disappointed that the recent war loan was not heavily oversubscribed. As a matter of fact the subscriptions were just about sufficient to meet the Government&#39;s requirements. I should have thought that with this country in imminent danger there would have been a rush of subscribers having capital to invest in order to ensure an overwhelming success of the issue. If the loan had been over-subscribed three or four times, that would have been evidence of the determination of the people to stand firmly behind the Government&#39;s war policy. It could not be urged that a generous response by the moneyed classes would have implied inequality of sacrifice, because the workers who have enlisted for active service abroad are prepared to give their lives for Australia. Therefore, it is not unreasonable to expect the wealthier sections of the community to subscribe more liberally to the Government&#39;s proposals for financing this war. I hope that a greater realization of Australia&#39;s danger will result in a more generous response to future appeals by the Government. How an expenditure for war of &#163;435,750,000 in three years is to be met I do not know. </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>388</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>JTR</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">DARCEY, Richard</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Darcey</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I do. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>388</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KE4</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">KEANE, Richard</name>
                <name role="display">Senator KEANE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Darcey</inline> may think that the financing of this war would be easy if the Government followed the course he has suggested on so many occasions. I believe that something along those lines may have to be done during this war, and that eventually a larger volume of credit will have to be made available through theCommonwealth Bank, but I am not so foolish as to claim that the bank financed the last war. We know that it did not, but it was instrumental in raising war loans at a rate of interest that was reasonable in comparison with the charges that would be made by the private banks. I therefore believe that the people of this country would welcome a more liberal banking policy to meet our pressing needs. This question will probably become a burning issue at the approaching elections. The royal commission appointed by the Lyons Government to inquire into and report upon our banking and monetary systems submitted important recommendations which that Government ignored. It was our bad luck that Labour was not then in power. If we had been, we would have been able to implement some, at least, of the recommendations of the commission with a view to obviating the almost hopeless financial position into which we are drifting. Our interest commitments on overseas and internal debts amount to &#163;45,000,000 a year. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>388</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KOL</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">MCBRIDE, Philip</name>
                <name role="display">Senator McBride</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Has any important public work been held up by the Government on account of finance difficulties ? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>388</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KE4</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">KEANE, Richard</name>
                <name role="display">Senator KEANE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-So far as I am aware, no. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>389</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KOL</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>UAP</party>
              <role />
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">MCBRIDE, Philip</name>
              <name role="display">Senator MCBRIDE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- Then finance is not a present difficulty. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>389</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KE4</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">KEANE, Richard</name>
                <name role="display">Senator KEANE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- If I were a member of a Labour Government I would not allow academic objections to financial proposals prevent the Government from doing its utmost to ensure the defence of this country and other parts of the British Empire. I emphasize the heavy interest burden that has been placed upon the people of this country. A yearly charge of &#163;45,000,000 on our overseas and internal debt represents &#163;128,000 daily, and if this war lasts for three years the cost will rise probably to &#163;250,000 a day, or more. I am wondering how long the Government will continue orthodox methods to finance this war. Our military, navy and air forces require a colossal sum to maintain them at their highest point of efficiency, and our expenditure on defence is mounting daily. I hope that when the elections are over honorable senators will have an opportunity to inspect the various annexes that have been established in Government railway workshops in the various States, in order to see for themselves what has been done during the last eight or nine months. With <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Sheehan,</inline> I urged that every advantage should be taken by the Government of the skilled and organized labour in Government railway workshops for war needs. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para>The Minister for Defence has recently made arrangements for the establishment of new military training camps, for which a colossal sum is required. I believe that if he took advantage of the organized and skilled labour in the various railway workshops it would be possible, by employing 900 or 1,000 of these skilled workmen, to provide accommodation for soldiers in camps, not permanent, perhaps, but sufficient to meet the needs of the Army for an expenditure much below that contemplated. </para>
          <para>I regret that Senators Amour and Armstrong are not in the chamber this afternoon, because what I have to say may be of interest to them. I have yet to learn that the Government, in any part of its war programme, has contravened any industrial award. If there had been a breach of industrial conditions I for one, and I am sure my colleagues in the </para>
          <para class="block">Labour party, would have protested immediately. We have given our pledge to stand behind the Government in its war effort. That pledge has been honoured to the full. This Government could not carry on without the complete cooperation of the Labour movement. We have reason to be proud of the part which we have played in supporting the Government&#39;s war programme. Our purpose is to strengthen the hands of the Ministry to the fullest possible extent, so that if war comes to our shores our soldiers shall have an even chance against an aggressor. I believe that in the coming elections party issues will, to some extent, be forgotten because of the grave danger confronting the people of this country. No doubt there will be recriminations, but I think that it can be fairly said that since the outbreak of the war Labour senators and Labour members in the House of Representatives have given the Government the fullest possible support. I am glad  that  sordid issues will be forgotten in the coming political contest. It would be un- Australian and un-British for any one to endeavour to .capitalize, for political purposes, the errors of the Government in connexion with its war activities of the past year. </para>
          <para>I fear that the developments in the next few months may be even more serious than those we have experienced up to the present time. I, therefore, welcome the appointment by this Government of the Chief Justice of the Commonwealth, <inline font-weight="bold">Sir John</inline> Latham, as Minister to represent Australia in Tokyo. I am convinced that this appointment will, more than anything else, assure our eastern neighbours, and the world at large, that we desire to live in peace with them. The presence of an Australian Minister in Tokyo should do much to cement the friendship between the two governments and ensure that the nation whose warships escorted Australian soldiers overseas in the last war will not., in this conflict, be hostile. I compliment the Government on the selection. It is reassuring to know that the appointment of <inline font-weight="bold">Sir John</inline> Latham has- been well received in Japan and that, at an early date, the Government of that country will reciprocate by appointing a Minister to represent Japan at Canberra. The selection of <inline font-weight="bold">Sir John</inline> Latham was a wise one, which, I think, has won the general approbation of the men and women of this country, and also of other parte of the world. </para>
          <para>With every other member of this chamber,I fully realize the seriousness of the situation with which we are confronted at the present time, and I believe that everything possible is being done to meet it. Australia has men of skill and courage who are ready to fight, when that becomes necessary, and, as I have said on many occasions, the men and women in our workshops are second to none in efficiency. The people generally are loyal to Australia and to the Mother Country. After all, 99 per cent, of Australians are of British descent. Next to Australia we love the Old Land. We desire that England shall get all the help that we can give, and that Australia also shall be well defended. </para>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>390</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>JTR</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">DARCEY, Richard</name>
              <name role="display">Senator DARCEY</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. -I have listened from time to time to statements by the Vice-President of the Executive Council <inline font-weight="bold">(Senator Collett)</inline> on the international situation, but I desire to-day to bring under the notice of the Senate a cheering feature of the position to which our attention has not yet been directed. A heartening article, entitled &#34;Britain Born Again&#34;, was published in the July number of the Tas- manian Public Service journal. It reads as follows: - </para>
          </talk.start>
          <quote>
            <para>England was born again on the day the French capitulated to Germany. The seed of this new birth was sown in the womb of time on the day Bleriot flew across the Channel. Up to then, England had lived under many traditions. First, that of our old friend, &#34; Micawber &#34;. Another was that England would ever be an island, assured of safety so long as she controlled the waters blue, and the last one was that the problem of British defence meant primarily the defence of France more than any other thing. </para>
            <para>Unhappy France! &#34;The defeat of France&#34;, they said, &#34; meant the downfall of the British Empire &#34;. We should sink, they said, to &#34; a conscript appanage of Germanic powers&#34;. Hence the need of huge and ever-increasing armies in France, to defend France. </para>
            <para>Germany, too. believed these things. They never had in 1914 or in 1939 any fear that France herself would prove equal to repelling a. German invasion. France always lacked the German perfection of organisation and readiness for war. So much the worse for England, as it has proved. Germany has always treated France with contempt. She was sure she could always, and very easily, destroy all </para>
            <para class="block">France&#39;s land forces and Britain&#39;s, too - in France. France was to be a death-trap for Britain. </para>
            <para>So Germany convinced Petain and many others, and had we fought on over the same ground again to the end, simply trying to thrust Germany back with the French forces unready, unconfident in defence, uncertain in offence, and unaided in extremis, no matter how undaunted our land forces, they would have suffered agonies on the way to annihilation far worse than in 1914-1919. </para>
            <para>The idea was in every mind that only British help could save France.That only by saving France could Britain save herself. All British, French and German war dreams have been built on that hypothesis. That France and Britain were inseparable, and that (despite Bleriot) land forces would again have to bear the brunt of the attack, and finally determine the issue on French or German soil. The 1914-18 war seemed to prove the theory that Britain&#39;s splendid isolation was absolutely finished - that only in Europe could her safety be fought for and won. </para>
            <para>Now a miracle has happened. All these theories and traditions are gone by the board. That hoary old creed of French defences has gone for ever. We are now isolated and best of all rid of responsibilities which in loyalty to France would have poured millions of our best men into the pits of hell, and the furies of war, disease, terrors, tortures and death, with the extra burden of lukewarm allies posing as compatriots, until the time came - as inevitably it must - for them, the waverers. to lay down their arms in circumstances giving the British no chance to escape from the wrack and ruin. </para>
            <para>That this has happened at so small a cost to Britain is indeed a miracle. Sweeping aside all traditions, it leaves us to what we feared most of all - splendid isolation. Something which a year ago meant the worst possible position. Something which today means a thousand times more unconquerable position than alliance with armies beaten by self-defeatisms, before the war was declared. </para>
            <para>That propaganda of defeatism with which Hitler had inoculated our Quondam friends, has robbed Hitler of his prey. No longer will Britain pour millions of men into the furnace of hell he prepared for them, worse, much worse, than in the last war. The French front, in spite of the Maginot Line - even if ever a line, as believed originally, instead of a dummy hurdle - would have proved a veritable slaughter-house to no purpose except that of holding to a worn-out tradition, that the cost must not be counted. </para>
            <para>So fearful a maelstrom of death and destruction that its reality justifies to some extent Petain&#39;s fear of the consequences. But, admitting this, he might have conceived a united retreat and the preservation of every source of strength which France could have afforded to fall back on England&#39;s shores. This proves that loyalty to Britain had no part in his make-up, or break-up, as the case may be. </para>
            <para>Now a miracle has been wrought. Britain is free. In her freedom, even if isolated temporarily, lies her strength. From the pits of hell millions have been saved. Can we count that nothing? Despite Hitler&#39;s cunning, or because of it, the collapse, arranged doubtless before the war began, as witness the Maginot Line business, came too soon, and his vast armies are left fly-catching in a desolated France, with immense problems growing round them day and night. Armies, which must face all the long periods of danger, necessity tempest, famine and sudden death, starvation and revolution, while our lads remain in comparative safety and comfort, instead of rotting and dying in France while wa&#39;iting interminably in muck and filth for the zero hours ill which to do their bit. </para>
            <para>So, despite new dangers, soldiering in England for the foot-sloggers is a pink silk stocking game compared with the filth of Flanders, and for the men of the boot and spur, a new game of &#34; Tally Ho &#34; with big game to chase as it shows up in the field. For these - now close to all the amenities of civilisation with no more danger to face in reality than a civilian child - a new war era has dawned, while Germans have to face, all the old horrors of waiting and war in every conceivably horrible phase until they meet their doom from sudden death or starvation. Yea, verily! England is born again to a greater heritage than ever. </para>
          </quote>
          <para>In reply to  a  question asked by <inline font-weight="bold">Senator. Aylett</inline> in the Senate this afternoon, <inline font-weight="bold">Senator McBride</inline> stated that the total amount of credit loaned by the Commonwealth Bank to the Australian Wheat Board, in respect of the 1938-39 harvest was &#163;2,334,000, and, in respect of the 1939-40 harvest, &#163;28,287,000. </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>391</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K7M</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">COLLETT, Herbert</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Collett</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  I rise to a point of order. I submit that the matter to which the honorable senator is now referring has nothing to do with my statement. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <para>The <inline font-weight="bold">PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon. J. B. Hayes).</inline> - I point out to <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Darcey</inline> that the Minister&#39;s statement dealt with matters relating to the war. </para>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>391</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>JTR</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">DARCEY, Richard</name>
                <name role="display">Senator DARCEY</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- My point is that, if the Commonwealth Bank can advance credit for wheat, it could also provide it for war purposes. I recently presented to the Senate a petition signed by almost 3,000 persons, urging the Government to finance the war with interest-free money issued through the Commonwealth Bank. Last week, in Sydney, I met the persons who organized that petition. They could, if necessary, have obtained the signatures of thousands of other citizens. I, myself, obtained 1,200 signatures in Hobart. At least 200,000 or 300,000 residents of Australia are definitely of the opinion that the money required for the conduct of the war could be advanced, free of interest, by the Commonwealth Bank; in fact, resolutions demanding that this be done have been carried in three State parliaments in Australia. Hundreds of public meetings have been held throughout the country, at which resolutions on the lines of this petition have been carried, and they have been forwarded to the Prime Minister <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Menzies).</inline></para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para>The people of Australia are supposed to enjoy democratic government. Under a truly democratic form of government, the people would get what they wanted; but it can be proved that the people of this country do not get what they want. Democratic government implies government of the people by the people for the people. Do we want war? Of course we do not, but we are getting it. Do we want poverty amidst plenty ? No, but we have poverty. Do we want malnutrition and unemployment? Certainly not, but we have both. Therefore, the people are not self-governed. We know what the Commonwealth Bank was established for, and three State parliaments are demanding that it shall be employed for the purpose of providing interest-free money, lt was the first and only bank in the world to be established for the purpose of meeting the financial needs of the people. Honorable senators opposite have never contended that interest-free money could not be provided ; they merely sit hack and say nothing. </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>391</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K7M</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">COLLETT, Herbert</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Collett</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  What have the honorable senator&#39;s remarks to do wilh the war? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>391</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>JTR</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">DARCEY, Richard</name>
                <name role="display">Senator DARCEY</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The war cannot be viewed from a more important aspect than that of finance. The Government has stated that the total cost of the war, up to 1944, will probably be &#163;435,750,000. At least 80 per cent, of that amount will be borrowed in the usual way by the Government through the private banks, and part of it through the Commonwealth Bank. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para>The demand for monetary reform is nation-wide. Hundreds of meetings in favour of it have been held throughout Australia.  Even that conservative body,  the Country party  of  Victoria, despite its leader, <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Dunstan,</inline> has carried  a  resolution demanding that the Commonwealth Bank be used for the purposes for which it was established, so that this war may he financed with interest-free money. I nave before me a book entitled <inline font-style="italic">Victory Without Debt.</inline> I am almost tired of repeating my views regarding government finance, but repetition seems to be necessary. The Government has said that it will be necessary to borrow &#163;435,750,000 to carry  ob  the war, but I claim that it is more important for us to discuss how the money shall be raised than how it shall be expended. No member of this chamber would suggest that it will be possible for Australia to carry on this war for a long period with loan money hearing interest at the rate of 3 per cent. The interest would have to be paid through the bank* or raised by means of taxation. The latter process would be worse than the former, since it would result in depleting the hard-earned cash of the people. What will happen? The private banks can only lend against their deposits. We are here to look after the interests of the taxpayers, but the policy of the Government is to conserve the interests of the private banks. We have been told that the Commonwealth Bank is partly financing the Government&#39;s war effort. It is, but only a very small part, and only to the degree to which the private banks will allow it to rely upon the Commonwealth Bank. I again protest against the way in which this money is being raised. If we pursue this policy we shall he ruined financially when the war. is over. We cannot expect 7,000,000 people to carry this burden of debt. Australia&#39;s national debt to-day is twice the amount of the national debt of the United Kingdom in 1914. I am glad to have had this opportunity to read the article, &#34; Britain Born Again &#34;. It shows that the British peoples have a better chance of winning this war than when France was in the field on our side. The Treasurer said that the Royal Commission on Banking- </para>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>392</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>10000</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
              <name role="display">The PRESIDENT</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- Order ! The honorable senator must confine his remarks to the question before the Senate. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>392</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>JTR</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">DARCEY, Richard</name>
                <name role="display">Senator DARCEY</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I repeat that if the Government pursues its present financial policy it will ruin Australia. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>392</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KQF</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">LAMP, Charles</name>
              <name role="display">Senator LAMP</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- I wish to bring before the Senate certain facts concerning the calling -for tenders for the construction of huts at the Ai. Force training school at Western Junction, Launceston. A deputation representative of builders and contractors interested in this work waited upon me at my home on the 31st July and explained that the time allowed for tendering did not give them sufficient opportunity to prepare and submit tenders. The tenders were called on the 25th July, and closed on the 2nd August. When the matter was brought under my notice I sent the following telegram to the Commonwealth Works Director, - Melbourne : - </para>
          </talk.start>
          <quote>
            <para>Understand six contractors are waiting for plans to tender for quarters at Western Junction Aerodrome. Request extension for one week. Post office say it is impossible for all to be served in the time allowed. </para>
          </quote>
          <para>To .that telegram I received the following reply:- </para>
          <quote>
            <para>Owing to Air Department requiring urgent commencement work at Western Junction regret cannot extend date for receipt of tenders. Tenders by telegram will be allowed. Six sets of 37 sheets each of buildings have been forwarded to Tasmania for tenderers. </para>
          </quote>
          <para>I point out that three of the tender sets were sent to Hobart and three to Launceston. Although each set consisted of 37 sheets, builders were given only 24 hours in which to submit their tenders. Consequently, their complaint is fully justified. When tenderers are not given an opportunity to prepare their estimates carefully they are prone to cover themselves against risk by allowing large sums for contingencies. The builders who waited upon me were very angry about this matter. Originally thirteen persons were waiting for the plans, but seven of them were precluded from tendering. Dealing with this matter the <inline font-style="italic">Launceston Examiner</inline> of the 1st August reported - </para>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>BUILDERS ANGRY</title>
        <page.no>392</page.no>
        <type>miscellaneous</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Western Junction Contract</title>
          <page.no>392</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <para>Launceston builders, particularly the smaller firms, are indignant about the difficulties which have been placed in the way of their tendering for the construction of the new recruits&#39; quarters to be built for the Air Force at Western Junction. </para>
        <para>Telegrams asking for an extension of the tender period have already been sent by <inline font-weight="bold">Senator C.</inline> A. Lamp to the Com mon weal lb Works  Director in Melbourne and the Minister for Air <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Fairbairn).</inline></para>
        <para>Yesterday one of the builders concerned visited <inline font-style="italic">The Eaa.rn.iner</inline> office to express the view of the many small firms which, he claimed, have been prevented from tendering. He w&#171;* <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. R.</inline> S. Baker, of Launceston. &#34; The plans and specification were available on Monday &#34;, he explained, &#34; and the tenders have to be in by 11 a.m. on Friday. &#34; Thirteen firms  applied for the three copies of the plana and specifications which were sent to Launceston. &#34; At a pinch I could go through them in two days, but they are so complicated and detailed that I should really like a week on the job. I got my copies to-day, which means that I have no hope of putting in a tender &#34;. </para>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Gould Have Shared Work</title>
          <page.no>393</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <para>
          <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Baker</inline>.pointed out that a number of separate buildings was required, costing in all about &#163;30,000, and that the work could easily have been split up among a number of small firms. This would have meant that it would have been completed more rapidly and that employment would have been provided for very many builders&#39; employees. &#34; As it ls &#34;, he said, &#34; because of the short time available in which to tender, and because of the way the specifications are framed, with very severe .penalty clauses, most small builders have been frightened off. It looks to me as if the specifications had been framed to favour the bigger firms &#34;. </para>
        <para>Ho added that he believed that one or two tenders had been .put in. by the bigger firms in Launceston. <inline font-style="italic">&#91;Quorum formed.&#93;</inline> I made a special trip to Melbourne &#34;with a view to securing an extension of the closing date for tenders. I was unable to get in touch with the Minister for Air, but eventually I was referred to a <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Coleman</inline> who, I was informed, was in charge of this work and would explain why it had been found necessary to call tenders so quickly. I am of opinion that the department wasted thousands of pounds in refusing to give to these contractors a fair chance to tender for this work. I intended to raise a number of other matters this afternoon, but in view of the lack of interest on the part of honorable senators opposite, T shall not do so until after the election. </para>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>393</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>K6N</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">CLOTHIER, Robert</name>
              <name role="display">Senator CLOTHIER</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - I appeal to the Government to give to Western Australia a greater share of our war-manufacturing programme. Recently I read in the press that the Government had allocated a large sum of money to be expended in Western Australia in this direction. It should go ahead with that work immediately. The workshops and workmen required arp available in that State. As Western Australia is the gateway to the Commonwealth it is entitled to greater consideration from a defence viewpoint than has hitherto been given to it. We should have a maximum production of aircraft, munitions and equipment to win and hold dearly the freedom we now enjoy. Australia&#39;s defence must be extended. No longer dare we dabble in half measures&#39;, Australia must make itself a military nation through and through. In the last war many Western Australian factories were engaged in the manufacture of war materials, and most of the workmen then employed are still available. Following the Government&#39;s announcement that it proposed to establish munitions works in Western Australia, I endeavoured to find out when a commencement was to be made. I made inquiries at the Railway Department, where I was informed that no information was available. It is hardly fair for the Government to make an announcement of this kind and then leave the public in suspense as to the date of commencement of the work. I can see no reason for the delay, because it is essential that we press on with our defence preparation as speedily as possible. Bearing in mind that Western Australia is the largest of the States in area but ranks only fifth on a population basis, it cannot be said that that State &#62;&#39;is being treated fairly in respect of defence expenditure. I repeat that all of the facilities required for the manufacture of war material exist in Western Australia. In the last war boot factories in that State achieved a reputation. It was said that they manufactured the best military boots. Of all the soldiers&#39; equipment, boots are possibly the most important item to his comfort. I again urge the Government to establish an annexe in Western Australia as soon as possible, and to announce full details of its proposal. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>393</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>K0Z</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">AYLETT, William</name>
              <name role="display">Senator AYLETT</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - &#39;When I see so many thousands of men still out of work, and am unable to find a first-class military aerodrome in the Commonwealth, I do not agree that the Government is doing all that it could do in the prosecution of our war effort. OU main oil storage tanks are still dangerously exposed to attack. This state of affairs is very disturbing in view of the warnings recently uttered by the Prime Minister <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Menzies)</inline> and the Treasurer <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Spender).</inline> .Indeed, only a snort while ago, the Treasurer said that it might be only a matter of a few months when Australia would be suffering as Britain is suffering to-day. Such warnings make us wonder whether the Gorvernment is doing everything that can be done to promote our defence. It states that it is doing its best to accelerate the rate of production of aeroplanes in Australia; I do not doubt its sincerity of purpose, but it seems to have overlooked an important aspect of air defence - the safe housing of Air Force machines and supplies. There are no Royal Australian Air Force hangars, oil-storage tanks or munitions dumps under bomb-proof shelters. The Government should learn of the importance of such protection from events overseas, where the Royal Air Force is destroying German aerodromes and enemy machines are trying to destroy British aerodromes. The thousands of unemployed in Australia to-day are mostly unskilled men who, although they cannot be employed in munitions and arms factories, are capable of building military aerodromes and bomb-proof shelters for oil and munitions stores. In Europe today, many aeroplane hangars are constructed in the sides of hills. &#34;Where aerodromes are on level country shelters have been constructed underground, and machines and supplies are dragged to the surface by small tractors. Therefore, when those aerodromes are subjected to attacks, machines and supplies which are not in use at the time are safe from bomb explosions. A different state of affairs prevails in Australia. All of our aerodromes are fully exposed to aerial attack. I have with me designs of the type of protected hangar used in many European countries. If Ministers have not already  seen them, I shall be glad to make them available for examination. Within a few miles of Western Junction, where I understand an air-training school is to be established in the near future at a cost of &#163;30,000 or &#163;40,000, there is an ideal site for a modern military aerodrome. It would be easy to build hangars in the side of a nearby hill and excavate oil-storage tanks and munitions dumps in positions that would be safe from attack. I realize that the Government will not have time to take the action I have suggested before the elections are held, but, should it be returned to office, I hope that it will endeavour to absorb all unemployed men in Australia in useful defence work. I shall be glad to accompany Ministers, or defence experts, to the site near Western Junction to which I have referred. Equally suitable sites exist in other parts of Australia, and their proper development for defence purposes would employ unskilled men, whom the Government says it is unable to employ in munitions factories. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>394</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>K0W</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">ASHLEY, William</name>
              <name role="display">Senator ASHLEY</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - I agree with <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Aylett</inline> that the Government is not doing all that it could do in the interests of Australia&#39;s defence. I have in mind a statement made yesterday by <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Essington</inline> Lewis, a responsible officer of the Commonwealth, in reply to a deputation which interviewed him in regard to the extension of war activities in the northern area of New South Wales. <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Essington</inline> Lewis said that there were 46,000 unemployed men in New South Wales, 5,000 in Victoria and 7,000 in South Australia. I understand that the Government has decided to establish an explosives factory in Adelaide. According to report, the factory will cover an area of 3,000 acres and will ultimately employ 30,000 people. I cannot understand why the Government ha3 decided to erect it in South Australia. I believe in a fair distribution of defence expenditure among all of the States of the Commonwealth, but the first consideration in making the division should be the economic resources of each State. Another factor is that of population and the percentage of unemployed men. As the result of its failure to give proper consideration to these points before deciding to erect a big factory in South Australia, the Government is likely to have difficulty in finding sufficient employees to do the work of the establishment. Housing accommodation for munitions workers in New South Wales is inadequate, and consequently skilled workmen are leaving that State almost daily. The Government should heed my warning. If the housing position is acute in New South Wales, in the neighborhood of a factory employing only 2,000 people, the position will be much more acute in South Australia when 30,000 employees are engaged for the new factory. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <para>New South Wales is highly industrialized and produces 90 per cent, of the Commonwealth&#39;s coal, iron and steel. Supplies of those materials will have to be transported to the new factory in South Australia, and the finished articles will then have to be transported back to the main centres of population for distribution. That is not an economical proposition. Victoria has already been given unduly favorable consideration in the allocation of defence expenditure, and now it appears that South Australia, a State with a relatively small population and suffering disabilities due to lack of supplies, is to be favoured by the establishment of one of the largest munitions factories in the Commonwealth. </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>395</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K7M</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">COLLETT, Herbert</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Collett</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  Does the honorable senator not believe in decentralization? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>395</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K0W</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ASHLEY, William</name>
                <name role="display">Senator ASHLEY</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I am a strong supporter of decentralization, but a factory as large as the one to be established in South Australia will be out of proportion to the population and material resources of that State. The factory should be erected in a more populous State, such as New South Wales, whose 46,000 unemployed men could be drawn upon to provide tie factory with a staff. The machinery in munitions establishments is easy to operate and most of the men employed in them are merely process workers. I admit that skilled technicians, such as toolmakers, are required, but their numbers are relatively small. Almost anybody could work a machine after receiving a week&#39;s training. The material requirements of the new factory are available in New South Wales. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>395</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KTX</name.id>
                <electorate>SOUTH AUSTRALIA</electorate>
                <party>UAP</party>
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">MCLACHLAN, James</name>
                <name role="display">Senator JAMES McLACHLAN</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  There is very little iron in New South Wales. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>395</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K0W</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ASHLEY, William</name>
                <name role="display">Senator ASHLEY</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Iron is manufactured in New South Wales. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>395</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KTX</name.id>
                <electorate>SOUTH AUSTRALIA</electorate>
                <party>UAP</party>
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">MCLACHLAN, James</name>
                <name role="display">Senator JAMES McLACHLAN</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  Most of the ore comes from Whyalla in South Australia. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>395</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K0W</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ASHLEY, William</name>
                <name role="display">Senator ASHLEY</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Some of it is imported from Tasmania. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>395</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KTX</name.id>
                <electorate>SOUTH AUSTRALIA</electorate>
                <party>UAP</party>
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">MCLACHLAN, James</name>
                <name role="display">Senator JAMES McLACHLAN</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  I should like to know when it has been imported from Tasmania and in what quantities. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>395</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K0W</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ASHLEY, William</name>
                <name role="display">Senator ASHLEY</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- New South Wales has obtained iron ore from Tasmania and from its own western districts. The Government apparently did not consider these facts before it decided to establish the new factory in South Australia. I trust that the Government will give close attention to the subjects which I have raised, particularly with respect to the housing of munitions workers and others. In those localities where factories are established it is the responsibility of the Government, acting in cooperation with the State governments, to ensure that all employees shall be properly housed, particularly in view of the fact that it would be futile to have soldiers on active service if our factories could not supply them with arms and munitions. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>395</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>JTK</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">CUNNINGHAM, James</name>
              <name role="display">Senator CUNNINGHAM</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. -  I compliment New South Wales, Victoria and South Australia on the efforts that are being made to establish powerful secondary industries in those States, and I trust that in the near future similar industries will be established in Western Australia. It has been said that 90 per cent, of the coal and a similar percentage of the steel and steel products used by the Commonwealth is produced in New South Wales. <inline font-weight="bold">Senator James</inline> McLachlan said that the main supply of iron ore is obtained in South Australia. In Western Australia we have a huge coal deposit at Collie, which is only fifteen miles from the important seaport of Bunbury. We also have iron ore at Yampi and, as these resources have not yet been tested at depth, it is impossible to say what quantity may eventually be made available. In these circumstances the Commonwealth Government, in conjunction with the Government of Western Australia, should consider the establishment of a power plant at Collie, with the object of transmitting electrical current to Bunbury and also to the metropolitan area, a distance of a little over 100 miles. The current from such a plant could also be transmitted in a southerly direction to link up with the important port of Albany, on King George&#39;s Sound. All such important undertakings have been neglected by this and preceding governments. I may be asked what connexion there is between </para>
          </talk.start>
          <para class="block">Yampi and a power plant at Collie, or the transmission of electric current to Bunbury. The answer is that it should be possible to <inline font-style="italic">generate</inline> electric power at Collie for treating iron ore for export to established manufacturing industries in other States. Such an industry would be of benefit to the Commonwealth defence policy, and provide permanent employment provided for a large number of men. It would necessitate the erection of additional residences and the improvement of those already in existence, thus stimulating the building industry inWestern Australia. Neither this nor any other Commonwealth Government should allow such important projects to remain in abeyance indefinitely. If we are to be a progressive people and are to build up a virile nation we must develop the latent wealth that is available in every State for the general good of the whole community. There are some who may say that in a national emergency every penny is required for defence purposes. We admit that, but works such as those to which I have referred should be brought within the Government&#39;s defence policy. The Government, does not appear to have any plan for the future, and is just scratching along from day to day. If the Government has&#39; a plan we have not heard of it. As the Minister who made the statement we are discussing is a representative of Western Australia, I trust that he will give us some information as to the policy of the Government with respect to the establishment of industries in that State. We are entitled to some information on this important subject, and naturally I expect a fellow-representative of Western Australia to tell us what the Government proposes to do in the matter. I can assure the Minister that I shall be only too willing to support any policy that is likely to benefit Western Australia. </para>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>396</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>K7M</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>UAP</party>
              <role>Vice-President of the Executive Council</role>
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">COLLETT, Herbert</name>
              <name role="display">Senator COLLETT</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - <inline font-style="italic">in reply</inline> - During the debate on this motion, which relates to international relations, some honorable senators have discussed Australia&#39;s war effort, but others have dealt with matters which have no relation to the subject-matter of my statement. I was impressed with the earnestness of some of the speeches, and the fact that some honorable senators realize the effect which the war may have on Australia, and how vital it is that there should be co-ordination of effort and a common will to bring about the end which we all desire. In co-ordinating our effort for the common good it is rather helpful to know that there is no strong indication of a desire to adopt a parochial outlook. Reference has been made by <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Cunningham</inline> to the establishment of secondary industries in Western Australia. I would remind the honorable senator who put several pointed questions to me, which were not without guile, that the planning of works in that State is only partially developed. It has already been stated in the press that the Minister for Supply and Development <inline font-weight="bold">(Sir Frederick Stewart)</inline> proposes to let contracts in Western Australia valued at &#163;1,500,000, but before doing so tools must be purchased and the acquisition of machinery arranged. That cannot be done in a week. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>396</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>JQY</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">COURTICE, Benjamin</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Courtice</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- It has taken the Government a long time to do anything. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>396</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K7M</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
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                <name role="metadata">COLLETT, Herbert</name>
                <name role="display">Senator COLLETT</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- It takes a long time to organize our part in a war of the magnitude of that which is now being waged, particularly when obstructions are placed in our way. The honorable senators opposite must admit that the Government has been faced with some obstructions and discouragement. Every avenue will be explored, and every State will be asked to do its best in accordance with the labour and the resources at its disposal. The decentralization of secondary industries and munition works is being observed as far as practicable. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para class="block">Question resolved in the affirmative. </para>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>WAR-TIME AGRICULTURAL POLICY</title>
        <page.no>396</page.no>
        <type>miscellaneous</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Ministerial Statement</title>
          <page.no>396</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <para>Debate resumed from the 7th August (vide page 225) on motion by <inline font-weight="bold">Senator McBride</inline> - </para>
        <quote>
          <para>That the paper be printed. </para>
        </quote>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>396</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>K7P</name.id>
              <electorate>QueenslandLeader of the Opposition</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">COLLINGS, Joseph</name>
              <name role="display">Senator COLLINGS</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - Honorable senators will regret that owing to indisposition <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Fraser,</inline> who secured the adjournment of the debate on this motion, is unable to resume the debate to-day. The statement before the Senate is one of the most important that has been submitted to this chamber in connexion with Australia&#39;s war activities. The members of the Opposition are not unmindful, even to a small degree, of the tremendous volume of work with which Ministers have been confronted in the negotiations which have taken place in connexion with the production and distribution of Australia&#39;s primary products, but I am afraid they have not developed what might be termed an Australian outlook upon many of its defence activities. I am very much afraid that its policy consists largely of taking suggestions and instructions from No. 10 Downing-street. It appears that the Government has got into the habit of saying &#34; yes &#34; to every proposition submitted to it by the British. Government. I may be exaggerating the position, but up to the present I have not seen in any of the ministerial statements presented to this Parliament, or in the actions taken by the Government, any definite declaration on behalf of Australia. It is possible that such negotiations may have been conducted in a different spirit. Australia is a wonderful country. No similar number of persons has accomplished in the same time anything approaching what has been done in Australia within the last 150 years. That is not merely a patriotic statement or an Australian boast. It is true, and responsible Ministers who have come to Australia from the United Kingdom have expressed, both to me personally, and to other people, their astonishment at what </para>
          </talk.start>
          <para>We have done. Such astonishment was admitted by <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Amery,</inline> and also by <inline font-weight="bold">Sir Arthur</inline> Duckham,  chairman  of the British Economic Mission - that little company known as the &#34; Big Four &#34;, who came here in order to give us some advice and, no doubt, to obtain some advice and experience. Australia is entitled to a place in the sun on its own account, and for that reason I should like to say in passing that I deeply regret that the Government has not yet legislated for the adoption of the Statute of Westminster, as it should have done long ago. Had that action been taken, there would not now be talk of appealing to the Old </para>
          <para class="block">Country for power to extend the life of this Parliament, because such an appeal would not be necessary. Australia should accept her rightful place in the sun. </para>
          <para>The ministerial statement dealt with important primary products, in connexion with some of which Australia is receiving anything but a good deal. If the Government believes for one moment that the wool-growers of Australia are satisfied with arrangements made for the disposal of their clip, I cannot possibly imagine how such a complacent belief has arisen. It is obvious that members of the Government do not travel among the wool-growers to the same degree that I do in Queensland, which is very largely a wool-producing State. I regret that the Minister for the Interior <inline font-weight="bold">(Senator Foll)</inline> is not in the chamber, because recently he made a statement in Brisbane which I have had no opportunity to refute publicly, but with which I shall deal now. <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Foil&#39;s</inline> statement is a typical example of the Government&#39;s wrong outlook on this important matter of primary production, even when it does what I consider to be the right thing. I believe, of course, that the Government did the right thing when it renewed the sugar agreement, and also when it extended the period of the cotton bounty. Queensland produces the bulk of Australia&#39;s sugar requirements, and very nearly all of the cotton grown in Australia. When I was asked by a newspaper representative for my opinion with regard to the holding of Cabinet meetings in Brisbane, I remarked that I thought it a waste of time and money, especially when economy was being urged so insistently. I added that in any case the Cabinet meetings held in Brisbane would do no more than record decisions which had been made long previously, and, in these circumstances, I thought that the gesture was mere futility. Next day, <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Foll</inline> expressed great surprise at what I had said, and added that such remarks came with ill grace from a Queensland senator, because the Commonwealth Government had renewed the sugar agreement and extended the period of the cotton bounty. That is a very wrong outlook. If this Government extended the sugar agreement as a compliment to Queensland, then it did a very wrong thing. Of course, I know that that was not the reason. Whatever may be <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Foil&#39;s</inline> opinion, the Government obviously extended the sugar agreement because failure to do so would have been calamitous to one of Australia&#39;s greatest industries, which produces a vital necessity both in peace and in war. Also, had the Commonwealth Government not extended the cotton bounty, I do not know what other activity the growers could have engaged in. The extension of that bounty was not a mere compliment to Queensland : it was a necessary action, because cotton is of the utmost importance in war-time. I repeat that in the disposal of our wool, the Government struck a very poor bargain indeed. I believe that the Government was under the impression, as I think we all were, that the sale of the whole of this season&#39;s clip to the Government of the United Kingdom meant that any neutral country requiring Australian wool would obtain it through that Government. But nothing of the sort has been done. In the first place, the Australian price is certainly nothing like commensurate with the cost of production. This is the kind of thing that makes me suspect that in regard to wool, the policy of distribution is being dictated from Bradford. Of course, it always has been to some degree, and now, apparently, Bradford is in a position to exert full control. As an integral part of the British Commonwealth of Nations Australia must make a valuable contribution to the war effort by selling its primary products to the United Kingdom. But what is happening now? The agreement for the sale of our wool-clip provides that profits from re-sales are to be shared by Australia and the United Kingdom ; but there is to be no re-sale of wool. There will be a sale of British manufactured woollen goods, Bradford will reap all the profits, and the Australian growers will not benefit at all. </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>398</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>JQP</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
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                <name role="metadata">COOPER, Walter</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Cooper</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I do not think that the honorable senator is in a position to say that that is so. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>398</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K7P</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
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                <name role="metadata">COLLINGS, Joseph</name>
                <name role="display">Senator COLLINGS</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- There is nothing in the agreement which gives to the wool-growersthe right to any profits derived from the sale of manufactured goods. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>398</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>JQP</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
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                <name role="metadata">COOPER, Walter</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Cooper</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The honorable senator does not know that that is so. I asked for that information and it was withheld. I was informed that the matter was being considered. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>398</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K7P</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
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                <name role="metadata">COLLINGS, Joseph</name>
                <name role="display">Senator COLLINGS</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The interjection by the honorable senator from Queensland, who. is a wool-grower and knows very much more about the technical side of wool-growing than I do, confirms the definite statement which I have just made. The honorable senator was not given the information which he sought, because it would be damaging to any kind of an Australian outlook on the position. I say emphatically that we have no right to sell Australian products to the United Kingdom Government or to any other government or purchaser, if all that the Australian growers will get is an appraisement price which is lower than the cost of production. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>398</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>JNT</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ABBOTT, Macartney</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Abbott</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The wool-growers are very grateful for the certainty which the agreement has given to them. There is such a thing as a transport problem at. the present time. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>398</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K7P</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
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                <name role="metadata">COLLINGS, Joseph</name>
                <name role="display">Senator COLLINGS</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- With all due respect to <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Abbott,</inline> I am not quite sure that he knows just what he is talking about. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>398</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>JNT</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ABBOTT, Macartney</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Abbott</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I do. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>398</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K7P</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
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                <name role="metadata">COLLINGS, Joseph</name>
                <name role="display">Senator COLLINGS</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I should like to know with what section of the Australian wool-growers the honorable senator has been in touch, that has enabled him to say that the growers are grateful for the arrangements that have been made. I also have been in touch with woolgrowers&#39; organizations, in my own State at any rate, and they certainly are not satisfied with the original agreement or the way in which it has worked out. There are quite a number of catches in the agreement; it provides for appraisements here and appraisements there, but not appraisements somewhere else. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para>I should like now to say a few words about wheat. Very little wheat is grown in Queensland. I think our last season&#39;s crop was, for the first time, bigger than our home-consumption requirements. Hitherto we had grown only enoughwheat to satisfy a part of our requirements, and we had imported the balance from other States. But I am not interested in wheat-growing merely as a representative of Queensland; wheatgrowing is one of Australia&#39;s greatest industries. Under my leadership the Opposition in this chamber has never failed to put up the best possible fight on behalf of the wheat-growers, not because of any special sympathy with them, but because wheat-growing is an important natural industry without which this nation cannot exist. For that reason we have always supported the industry, but we never have been able to persuade the Government to do the right thing by it, namely, to stop handing out doles to mendicant wheat-growers, year after year. The Government should stabilize the wheat industry in the same way as Queensland has stabilized the sugar industry. There is the example; give the people who grow wheat a chance for the first time in their lives. </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>399</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KOJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">HAYS, Herbert</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Herbert Hays</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Does the honorable senator suggest that a  homeconsumption  price should be fixed? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>399</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K7P</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
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                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
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                <name role="metadata">COLLINGS, Joseph</name>
                <name role="display">Senator COLLINGS</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Of course. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>399</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KOJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">HAYS, Herbert</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Herbert Hays</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- They have that now. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>399</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K7P</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
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                <name role="metadata">COLLINGS, Joseph</name>
                <name role="display">Senator COLLINGS</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- And what kind of a home-consumption price ? It is nothing like the price advocated by the Opposition in this chamber. We in Queensland have shown how the job may be done. It is not only necessary to fix a homeconsumption price; in addition, the industry must be so organized that production shall be regulated, and immediately a state of over-production is reached, proper measures shall be taken and proper means supplied, to enable an equitable distribution of the crop. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>399</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KOJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">HAYS, Herbert</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Herbert Hays</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Overproduction of sugar has not been stopped in Queensland. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>399</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K7P</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
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                <name role="metadata">COLLINGS, Joseph</name>
                <name role="display">Senator COLLINGS</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- It has. I regret that that interjection has been made, because it shows how little the honorable senator understands the position. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>399</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KOJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
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                <name role="metadata">HAYS, Herbert</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Herbert Hays</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Queensland has not stopped increased production to the acre in the sugar industry. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>399</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K7P</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
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                <name role="metadata">COLLINGS, Joseph</name>
                <name role="display">Senator COLLINGS</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- No matter how much a grower produces he cannot get bis cane crushed unless he has a permit from the mill that he supplies, and then only the permitted acreage. The growers know beforehand how much they will have to plant, and if a grower produces more than his allotted quantity, he has to leave his cane standing because he cannot get it crushed. There is a simple reason for limiting production. When sufficient sugar to meet home-consumption demands has been grown, the remainder must be sold abroad at world parity. In Queensland all the money received at the homeconsumption price goes into one pool and the money received at world parity for the sale of sugar overseas goes into another pool. The two pools are then amalgamated, and the growers are paid accordingly. Every ton of sugar which is exported reduces the final return to the growers, and for that reason they wish to export as small a proportion of their total production as possible. Of course, as an exportable commodity, sugar is valuable in connexion with the balancing of our overseas trade. That is the position with regard to sugar, and conditions should be similar with regard to wheat. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>399</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KOJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">HAYS, Herbert</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Herbert Hays</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The growers are increasing production to the acre on existing plantations. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>399</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K7P</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
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                <name role="metadata">COLLINGS, Joseph</name>
                <name role="display">Senator COLLINGS</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- It is a good thing that this year our production of sugar will be greater than in any previous season because Great Britain is asking for it. But we are still limiting production. In Queensland the board watches carefully the production figures as well as many other details in connexion with the industry. I say in no spirit of carping criticism - it seems almost a futility, at this time, to talk of competing policies - that in connexion with primary production the Opposition in this Parliament has been consistent over the years. I may . add, also, that its policy has not been determined behind closed doors or in the privacy of bank parlours. It has been fixed by the rank and file of the Labour movement, and it has been printed and freely circulated for the information of all who care to read it. If an honorable senator is not conversant with Labour&#39;s policy, he should obtain a copy of the document and inform his mind. He will find that with regard to primary production the policy contains safeguards against the difficulties I am mentioning. If we had been in a position to give effect to our policy, the criticism which I am now offering would not be heard,  because there would not be reason for it. I say, in all seriousness, that I am well aware of the difficulties confronting the Minister for Commerce; but I also say that these problems have not arisen overnight. They have been in evidence in connexion with primary production for many years; they were causing concern before the outbreak of war made the overseas situation so much more perplexing. Ever since the war clouds began to gather, the Opposition in this Parliament has been stressing the need for the adoption of a Government programme that would surmount the difficulties now confronting the Minister for Commerce. We know that steps are being taken to deal with some of the problems, but that action is so belated as to be of doubtful immediate value. However, I am glad that these steps have been taken, and I hope that they will be speeded up, so that we may be able to surmount some of our troubles. But the fact remains - and we have stressed it over and over again - that we were proud of the Australian Commonwealth Line of Steamers and we protested strenuously against its sale. If those vessels had been retained and were in the service of the Government to-day, they would have been of real value in this, our hour of peril. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>400</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KTX</name.id>
                <electorate>SOUTH AUSTRALIA</electorate>
                <party>UAP</party>
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">MCLACHLAN, James</name>
                <name role="display">Senator JAMES McLACHLAN</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  Those vessels are now obsolete. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>400</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K7P</name.id>
                <electorate />
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                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
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                <name role="metadata">COLLINGS, Joseph</name>
                <name role="display">Senator COLLINGS</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I am not so sure of that. Some are still sailing the seven seas, and I repeat that if they had not been sacrificed we would not to-day be in such a serious position with regard to shipping space for our surplus primary products. A mercantile marine is one of the surest safeguards in time of national emergency. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>400</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KOJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
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                <name role="metadata">HAYS, Herbert</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Herbert Hays</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  Some of those vessels are still trading to and from Australia. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>400</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K7P</name.id>
                <electorate />
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                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
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                <name role="metadata">COLLINGS, Joseph</name>
                <name role="display">Senator COLLINGS</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Nevertheless the Minister has told us of our present shipping difficulties, particularly with regard to wheat, and has stressed the need for additional tonnage. The emergency of war has made the position more acute. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para>Recently this chamber passed legislationproviding for the payment of a bounty on the building of ships in this country. We on this side protested that the Government&#39;s proposal did not go far enough. We urged that the bounty should be payable on ships of a greater tonnage than was provided for in the bill. We now learn that the Government has decided to pay a bounty for the building of ships far larger than were at first contemplated. </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>400</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KOJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
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                <name role="metadata">HAYS, Herbert</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Herbert Hays</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  How can the honorable senator say that if the Australian Commonwealth Line of Steamers had not been sold we would not be in our present position as regards shipping space? Many of the vessels formerly owned by the Government are still trading to and from Australia. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>400</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K7P</name.id>
                <electorate />
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                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
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                <name role="metadata">COLLINGS, Joseph</name>
                <name role="display">Senator COLLINGS</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I am glad to know that at least one Government supporter still thinks that &#34; God&#39;s in  His  Heaven - all&#39;s right with the world ! &#34; Evidently the honorable gentleman believes that the Government&#39;s arrangements to send our surplus primary products overseas are completely satisfactory. That is not so. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>400</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KOJ</name.id>
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                <name role="metadata">HAYS, Herbert</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Herbert Hays</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  I did not say anything of the kind. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>400</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K7P</name.id>
                <electorate />
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                <name role="metadata">COLLINGS, Joseph</name>
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              </talker>
              <para>- The honorable senator interjected that ships formerly owned by the Commonwealth Government are still trading to and from Australia. He implied there is no great difficulty about getting our wheat away. The facts are otherwise. The Minister for Commerce has not told us of what is happening to the huge supplies of Australian wheat now stored in this country - how it is being eaten by mice and ravaged by weevils because it cannot be sent away. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>400</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KOJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
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                <name role="metadata">HAYS, Herbert</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Herbert Hays</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  The Leader of the Opposition is misrepresenting what I said. He declared that if the Australian Commonwealth Line of Steamers had not been sold we would not be in our present difficulty with regard to shipping space for our wheat, and I interjected that some of the vessels formerly owned by the Government were still trading to and from Australia. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>400</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K7P</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">COLLINGS, Joseph</name>
                <name role="display">Senator COLLINGS</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- If the honorable senator thinks that I am misrepresenting him his proper course is to make notes of what he regards as inaccuracies in my speech and, when the opportunity is presented, rise in his place and correct them. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para>There is in the statement one thing for which I give credit to the Minister responsible for it. I am glad to know that, in the interests of primary producers, the Minister for Commerce does not endorse the inconsistent attitude of some members of this chamber. He has told our wheat-growers that they must face the situation and must accept his advice to restrict production for the time being. They must realize that it would be impossible for the Commonwealth Government to guarantee the disposal of the entire uncontrolled wheat production of Australia to the British Government. I give credit to the Minister for Commerce for his courage. On more than one occasion I have said that I realized the tremendous responsibility resting on the Minister&#39;s shoulders and the magnitude of the task of arranging for the sale of our primary products during the war. But I repeat that his responsibility would be lessened and our task made easier if, in this national Parliament, we adopted a purely Australian outlook and at the same time sternly discouraged any attempt to profiteer by the sale of our products. When 1 speak of a purely Australian outlook in relation to our problems I do not suggest that we should in any way act in conflict with the policy of the British &#39;Government. But I am convinced that if, in all we do, we have an Australian outlook we shall be making an important contribution to Empire defence, and make possible the successful emergence of the Empire from the desperate struggle in which it is engaged. Therefore, I plead now, as I have pleaded on other occasions, for a definite Australian outlook and a definite Australian policy. We should not seek to profiteer in the sale of our wheat, wool, sugar or any other Australian product. The first essential of such a policy is to safeguard the interests of the primary producers, who are the backbone of the nation ; we should encourage them to produce those things that are essential, particularly in a time of national emergency, and we should make sure that they get a fair deal. I am not suggesting that the Minister or the Government could be expected to foresee all of the difficulties that may emerge in the future. </para>
          <para class="block">That would require supermen in the Ministry, and I have not yet reached the stage of believing that this Government has in its ranks persons in that category. But what I do suggest is that some of the difficulties can be expected, and may be minimized by wise Government action. In other words I say that in connexion with primary production and its distribution the Opposition stands for all that is comprehended in wise legislative and administrative activity - that is a planned economy, embracing the entire field of production and distribution. How often have we seen in municipal affairs, that owing to a lack of planning, costly, well-made roads, constructed by one authority are torn up soon after completion by another authority for the purpose of laying mains, and perhaps a few months later are once more disturbed by still another authority for the purpose of laying electric cables. All of these troubles could be avoided with proper coordination between the various semigovernmental or municipal authorities. In other words, a Well-devised planned economy would obviate many of our troubles. That is what the Opposition in this Parliament stands for. It is probably a waste of time to offer any advice which will appeal to the Government, but I contend that great though our problems may be, they could be minimized if even now we took account of the situation and decided to avoid in the future, as far as humanly possible, those pitfalls which are occasioning so many difficulties to-day. </para>
          <para>Debate (on motion by <inline font-weight="bold">Senator McLeay)</inline> adjourned. </para>
          <para class="italic">
            <inline font-style="italic">Sitting suspended from 5.SS to 8 p.m.</inline>
          </para>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>COMMONWEALTH ELECTORAL (WAR-TIME) BILL 1940</title>
        <page.no>401</page.no>
        <type>bill</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Second Reading</title>
          <page.no>401</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <para>Debate resumed <inline font-style="italic">(vide</inline> page 384). </para>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>401</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>K7P</name.id>
              <electorate>QueenslandLeader of the Opposition</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">COLLINGS, Joseph</name>
              <name role="display">Senator COLLINGS</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - After listening to the second-reading speech by the Minister for the Interior <inline font-weight="bold">(Senator Foll),</inline> I secured the adjournment of the debate in order to give the Opposition an opportunity further to scrutinize the measure. I am glad that the Government is making provision to enfranchise those who are engaged in the great work of defending this country abroad and at home. The Opposition will support the bill, and will give it such attention in committee as may be considered necessary. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <para>Question resolved in the affirmative. </para>
          <para>Bill read a second time. </para>
          <para class="italic">
            <inline font-style="italic">In committee:</inline>
          </para>
          <para>Clauses 1 to 5 agreed to. </para>
          <para>Clause 6 (Members of the forces entitled to vote). </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>402</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KE4</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">KEANE, Richard</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Keane</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- What procedure was adopted during the last war? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>402</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>JZD</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FOLL, Hattil</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Foll</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Preferential voting was not in operation then, and members of the Australian Imperial Force voted for parties only. They will now be supplied with the names of all of the candidates. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>402</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>JTR</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">DARCEY, Richard</name>
              <name role="display">Senator DARCEY</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- I should like to know why the franchise is to be limited to members of the forces who have attained the age of 21 years.I suggest that a soldier is entitled to vote, even if he be under the age of 21 years. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>402</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>JZD</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>UAP</party>
              <role>Minister for the Interior</role>
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">FOLL, Hattil</name>
              <name role="display">Senator FOLL</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - That matter was considered, but, as it would be difficult to differentiate between young midshipmen in the Naval Forces, who might be only 14 or 15 years of age, and members of the Australian Imperial Force, it was thought desirable to restrict the franchise to those who had attained the age of 21 years. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>402</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KS7</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">MACDONALD, Allan</name>
              <name role="display">Senator ALLAN MacDONALD</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - What arrangements have been made for the enrolment in Australia of members of the Australian Imperial Force who attain their twenty-first birthday while abroad, so that their votes may be recorded and counted ? </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>402</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>JZD</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>UAP</party>
              <role>Minister for the Interior</role>
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">FOLL, Hattil</name>
              <name role="display">Senator FOLL</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.  - If the name of a member of the forces is not now on the roll, it will be regarded as having been placed there on his attaining the age of 21 years, and the electorate for which he will be regarded as having voted will be that from which he enlisted. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>402</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>JZH</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">AMOUR, Stanley</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Amour</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- When I returned from the last war I was only 17 years of age, but my name was then on the roll and continued there. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>402</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>JZD</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FOLL, Hattil</name>
                <name role="display">Senator FOLL</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- In 1918, all men serving overseas were granted the franchise. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para>Clause agreed to. </para>
          <para>Clauses 7 to 13 agreed to. </para>
          <para>Clause 14 (Scrutiny). </para>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>402</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KE4</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">KEANE, Richard</name>
              <name role="display">Senator KEANE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- Am I right in supposing that the votes will be counted by the returning officer who receives them, and that he will notify the Chief Electoral Officer of the result? </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>402</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>JZD</name.id>
              <electorate>QUEENSLAND</electorate>
              <party>NAT; UAP from 1931</party>
              <role>Minister for the Interior</role>
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">FOLL, Hattil</name>
              <name role="display">Senator FOLL</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - The votes will be counted overseas, and the Chief Electoral Officer will be notified by cablegram of the result of the count. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <para>Clause agreed to. </para>
          <para>Clause 15 agreed to. </para>
          <para>Clause 16 (Inclusion of result of scrutiny in determining result of polling). </para>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>402</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KE4</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">KEANE, Richard</name>
              <name role="display">Senator KEANE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- This clause evidently deals only with the first preference votes. What will happen with regard to the other votes? </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>402</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>JZD</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>UAP</party>
              <role>Minister for the Interior</role>
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">FOLL, Hattil</name>
              <name role="display">Senator FOLL</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - The first preference votes will be counted on the spot by the officer overseas; but, as the distribution of the preferences might mean as many as sixteen or twenty counts, should there be a multiplicity of candidates, it was deemed desirable that the ballotpapers should be returned to this country by the quickest possible method, to enable the distribution to be made in Australia rather than by an officer overseas who might not be sufficiently conversant with the system. It is anticipated that in most cases the use of the air mails will enable the ballot-papers to be received in this country while the Senate count is in progress. It is not anticipated that there will be serious delay, because a considerable time is occupied in counting Senate votes. It is expected that there will be two air mails a week from overseas. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>402</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>K7P</name.id>
              <electorate>QueenslandLeader of the Opposition</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">COLLINGS, Joseph</name>
              <name role="display">Senator COLLINGS</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - I understood the Minister to mean that, although there must be some delay on account of the rather intricate method of counting the Senate ballot-papers, it would be much less if the counting of the second and other preferences were carried out by returning officers in Australia, who would probably be much more familiar than officers overseas with this work. The  delay that would be occasioned by attempting to complete the count abroad would be much greater than would be occasioned by returning the ballot-papers to Australia. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>403</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KE4</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">KEANE, Richard</name>
              <name role="display">Senator KEANE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- I am still not satisfied as to the operation of this clause. Whilst I recognize that some of the results could be cabled to Australia, I suggest that many weeks must elapse before the ballot-papers could be obtained from the other side of the world, and until they arrived, the final count could not be completed. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>403</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>JZD</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>UAP</party>
              <role>Minister for the Interior</role>
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">FOLL, Hattil</name>
              <name role="display">Senator FOLL</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- The firstpreference votes wouldbe cabled to Australia, but the distribution of the preferences would be carried out here. As the honorable senator knows, it is necessary to obtain all of the ballotpapers from the outback parts of Australia before the preferences can be distributed, and it is anticipated that the time occupied in obtaining these papers will be approximately the same as will be taken in obtaining the votes from members of the forces serving overseas. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>403</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>JZH</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">AMOUR, Stanley</name>
              <name role="display">Senator AMOUR</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. -  Has the Government made arrangements for the ballot-papers to be returned to Australia by air mail as soon as practicable after the vote has been taken? I take it that the Minister means that the soldiers&#39; votes sent by air mail will probably be received in Australia before the whole of the returns from the outback parts of Australia have come to hand. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>403</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>JZD</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>UAP</party>
              <role>Minister for the Interior</role>
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">FOLL, Hattil</name>
              <name role="display">Senator FOLL</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- Yes. The quickest practical method of obtaining the ballot-papers from overseas will be adopted, and it is considered that the airmail service will meet the needs of the case. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <para>Clause agreed to. </para>
          <para>Clauses 17 and 18 agreed to. </para>
          <para>Clause 19 (Member of forces may apply for certificate and ballot-paper). </para>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>403</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>K0Z</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">AYLETT, William</name>
              <name role="display">Senator AYLETT</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - As three-fourths of the young men affected by this clause would not know to whom they should make application for a certificate and ballot-paper, would it not he better to allow them to qualify for a vote on swearing an affidavit on polling day  as  to their age and qualifications? . The validity of such  votes  would, of course, depend upon the details sworn  in the  affidavit being confirmed. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>403</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>JZD</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>UAP</party>
              <role>Minister for the Interior</role>
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">FOLL, Hattil</name>
              <name role="display">Senator FOLL</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. -  It would be inadvisable to alter this provision.I assure the honorable senator that he need entertain no fears in respect of this clause because it will apply only to men who, </para>
          </talk.start>
          <para class="block">On  their return from overseas, are not enrolled. It is not anticipated that any considerable number will be affected. Every facility will be provided to enable such men to make application for a vote should they return from overseas just prior to an election. </para>
          <para>Clause agreed to. </para>
          <para>Clauses 20 to 25 agreed to. </para>
          <para>Clause 26 (Scrutineers). </para>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>403</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>K7P</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party />
              <role>Leader of the Opposition</role>
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">COLLINGS, Joseph</name>
              <name role="display">Senator COLLINGS</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. -  Can the Minister for the Interior give us any idea as to how the appointment of scrutineers under this clause can be made to the satisfaction of candidates ? This matter presents a good deal of difficulty. For instance, I do not know how a candidate would become aware of persons who would be available to act as scrutineers in camps abroad. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>403</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>JZD</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>UAP</party>
              <role>Minister for the Interior</role>
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">FOLL, Hattil</name>
              <name role="display">Senator FOLL</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. -  I admit that the honorable senator&#39;s question is something of a conundrum. Candidates in Australia will find it very difficult to appoint scrutineers overseas. However, this provision is inserted in order to give such power to any candidate, who might desire to do so. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>403</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>JNT</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ABBOTT, Macartney</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Abbott</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  What would be the attitude of the censor in this respect? Does this not involve divulging information as to the whereabouts of troops? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>403</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>JZD</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FOLL, Hattil</name>
                <name role="display">Senator FOLL</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Arrangements to notify scrutineers could be made through the electoral office. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para>Clause agreed to. </para>
          <para>Clauses 27 and 28 agreed to. </para>
          <para>Title agreed to. </para>
          <para>Bill reported without amendment; report adopted. </para>
          <para>Bill read a third time. </para>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>ADJOURNMENT</title>
        <page.no>404</page.no>
        <type>adjournment</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Canvass of Public Opinion - Yugoslav Newspaper - Australian Imperial Force: Shoulder Colour Patches - Goldfields Airways - Potatoes - Inglewood Post Office - Flax - War Finance - General Election</title>
          <page.no>404</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <para>Motion (By <inline font-weight="bold">Senator McLeay)</inline> proposed - </para>
        <quote>
          <para>That the Senate do now adjourn. </para>
        </quote>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>404</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>K7M</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia Vice</electorate>
              <party>UAP</party>
              <role>President of the Executive Council</role>
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">COLLETT, Herbert</name>
              <name role="display">Senator COLLETT</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. -  On the 6th August, and again on the8th August, <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Brown</inline> asked whether inquiries made by certain persons, whom he likened to &#34; Cooper&#39;s snoopers &#34; were authorized by the Department of Information. I have received the following reply from the department :  - </para>
          </talk.start>
          <quote>
            <para>With reference to the inquiries made by <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Brown</inline> on the 8th August regarding a canvass of public opinion which is being carried on in Queensland, this canvass has not been undertaken by or on behalf of the Department of Information or any other Commonwealth department. Government funds are not being expended in connexion with it. </para>
            <para>It is believed that the canvass is being conducted on behalf of an Australian newspaper by a Sydney firm which specializes in research into public opinion in connexion with the marketing of merchandise, &#38;c. </para>
          </quote>
          <para>On the8th August, <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Fraser</inline> asked a question relating to the banning of <inline font-style="italic">Napreduk,</inline> a newspaper published in the Yugoslav language. On this matter I have received the following reply from the Department of Information: - </para>
          <quote>
            <para>With reference to the inquiry by <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Fraser</inline> on the 8th August, relative to the banning of a newspaper in the Yugoslavian language, this paper came under notice as far back as January, 1940, when a report was received from which these extracts are taken :  - &#34; In its political tendencies &#39; Napredak &#39; is very close to the Communist . . . Everything is strongly influenced by the left point of view. It is sympathetic with the Union of Socialist Soviet Republics, and approves of the pacifist element in the Labour party &#34;. </para>
            <para class="block">That the journal was being used by the Communists for the dissemination of their views was admitted by the editor in a letter in which he stated: - &#34; We admit publishing even Communist views from time to time, on some topical and controversial questions, but as information only and not intended as propaganda &#34;. </para>
          </quote>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>404</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>K2F</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">BRAND, Charles</name>
              <name role="display">Senator BRAND</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- On behalf of several old Australian Imperial Force battalion associations throughout Australia, I desire to put forward a suggestion to the Minister for the Army <inline font-weight="bold">(Senator McBride),</inline> that where the shoulder colour patches of the Australian Imperial Force battalions are not identical with those of the old Australian Imperial Force, the latter be superimposed on the former. As regards the shape, it is essential that the shape be the same in each division and distinct from each other division. For instance, the 6th Division patches are oblong, the 7th diamond shaped, and the 8th oval. All of these divisions have nine battalions, as against twelve in the Great War divisions. It is, therefore, impossible for the present Australian Imperial Force Battalions to wear the identical colour patches of the corresponding old battalion. The nine battalions of the 6th Division are fortunate in being able to wear the same patches, but the other eighteen battalions are not so fortunate. Their colours have no connexion whatever with their corresponding Great War battalion. I hand to the Minister a diagram showing how the colours of the new and old Australian Imperial Force battalions can be embodied as one. The idea is not mine. It was suggested by various battalion associations. Indeed, I believe it is the wish of the present units. The link between the old and the new has already been strengthened by gifts from the old diggers of sets of drums, silver bugles, drum-major staffs, and camp colour flags. In many instances the old Australian Imperial Force associations have taken upon themselves the laudable obligation of looking after the interests of mothers and wives of the new generation of diggers. I hope that the Minister will look into this matter. The expense in renewing those patches would not be great. It would be a compliment to those famous old Australian Imperial Force battalions. It would be a source of pride to the present Australian Imperial Force, and an encouragement to them to emulate the deeds of their predecessors. For centuries every unit of the British Army retained in its regimental badge some link with the past. Sentiment  and tradition made the British Army. There would be a mutiny if officialdom tampered with its honoured badges. The equivalent in the Australian Imperial Force battalions is the colour patch. I trust that the Minister for the Army will rectify this oversight and link the young Australian Imperial Force infantrymen closer to the illustrious veterans of 1914-18, the men who made history on Gallipoli, at Pozieres, Bullecourt, Villers Bretonneux and Mont St. Quentin. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>405</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>JTK</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">CUNNINGHAM, James</name>
              <name role="display">Senator CUNNINGHAM</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - I take this opportunity to draw attention to what appears to me to be an injustice to <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. George</inline> Lewis, who is carrying on business in Western Australia as the Goldfields Airways Company. The facts of the case are set out in the following communication which I have received from <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Lewis</inline> :  - </para>
          </talk.start>
          <quote>
            <para>During these six years we have been battling along, charter flying for the mining industry, and we have got to the stage where a number of mines, scattered from Marble Bar to Kundip rely on us for flying engineers, metallurgists and various specialists around, supervising existing mines, and opening up new ones. </para>
            <para>I might mention here that in the next few years when Wiluna closes, these mines will be producing almost as much bullion as Wiluna ever did. </para>
            <para>Since they have been chosen, we have spent all our available time and quite a lot of money training Royal Australian Air Force reservists who are waiting to be called up. And we must have done a fair job, because our work has been mentioned over the wireless, and is being copied in a number of places. </para>
            <para>We have made a number of applications for subsidized air mail runs, from Kalgoorlie to Norseman and Esperance, Wiluna, and to Norseman and Perth, and are always refused, although our flying record is excellent. </para>
            <para>We are the only people in Australia to make a success of flying without a subsidy, and that has been because I am on the job all day and every day, Sundays included. Matter of fact I have not had a holiday since I started. </para>
            <para>I have done all the engineering myself, as well as most of the, flying. Recently I made a geological flight in the unknown country north of the Transcontinental Railway, and south of the Warburton country. We have chartered from Darwin and Pine Creek to Eucla and as far west as Albany, all over the back country and the goldfields. </para>
            <para>All this flying is done at a shilling a mile, the same price as is charged in England, and I suppose our help to the gold-mining industry keeps several hundred men in jobs who other- mines would not be worked. wise would not have them, because without our flying, supervision would be impossible and the </para>
            <para>We do all the pioneering, and a Perth firm, Airlines, who seem to be on good terms with the <inline font-style="italic">Western Australian</inline> newspaper, get all the air mail contracts. </para>
            <para>I am attaching a newspaper clipping which sets out the latest air mail contract given in this locality. Now I was flying patients from Norseman before there was an aerodrome there, but once again Airlines get all the cream. This discrimination in favour of Airlines appears to be going to its logical conclusion until I get pushed out or break my neck. </para>
            <para>I have done all our engineering with the exception of complete engine overhauls; during our six years flying, we have had one forced landing. So our standard of maintenance is high. </para>
            <para>The Civil Aviation Department have made me take the machines to Perth for their annual inspection, and for engine complete overhauls. </para>
            <para>Last February I got permission to carry out a complete overhaul of a Gipsy Six in our Percival Vega Gull, providing that the job was certified by a &#34; B &#34; class ground engineer in Perth. </para>
            <para>I did the job all right, and it was quite safe, and the engineer in Perth certified it. Then the Department would not accept this certification, and the Perth officer in charge arranged that the job be checked by Airlines engineer. </para>
            <para>Airlines did the job all over again, and it cost me &#163;100, and it is an act of Providence thatI am alive now. The engine was abnormally stiff, but their engineer assured me that it would loosen up. It did not, but got worse, until my twelvestone hung on the end of the propellor would not move the propellor. </para>
            <para>Airlines engineer apologized, and said he would willingly ease the bearings, but he was so busy overhauling the machine they had just bought from <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Fairbairn</inline> that he had not time, so asked me to do it. </para>
            <para>Several other engineers whom I know well told me not to be a fool, but to ease the bearings, but the Civil Aviation officer said if I did the machine would be grounded. </para>
            <para>Well, in desperation I opened the engine up, and eased the bearings; to make it safe to fly. I found all the big end bearings partially seized, white metal having been pulled around the periphery of the bearings. Why it had not seized taking off I don&#39;t know. It should have by all the laws. </para>
            <para>Before closing the engine up again I trailed a magnet through the inside, and found a bit of loose split pin near the gears, and it was a piece from a main bearing lock, so I could not have left it there. My noble competitors had left it there by accident. </para>
            <para>It is an act of Providence that I and my passengers were not killed. We had flown up to Pino Creek, over the Kimberleys, and across the desert north of Wiluna with it in there. </para>
            <para>You can see that I had to do this job to make the machine safe, but now it is grounded, and my livelihood  is  taken away. </para>
            <para>The same departmental officer wants me to fly the machine to Perth again, and have Airlines once more open the engine up, to &#34;certify it&#34;, but I do not feel like tempting Providence again. Life is sweet! </para>
            <para>Now I have given the best part of my life to this job, and have accomplished something which is of value to the country, and as a reward my livelihood is taken away. </para>
            <para>To carry on under these conditions is asking for a crack-up, in which some valuable lives may be lost, and if this is a fair interpretation of aviation laws, it is time they were altered; if it is not, then those responsible should be kicked so far out of the industry that they can never get into it again. </para>
            <para>I want to keep on flying, but you can see that under this present arrangement it is not safe. </para>
            <para>I am doing a very useful job, and it is only fair that if the department can supply a ground engineer in all categories for a firm like Airlines, that the same privilege should be granted to me. Or if the department are so keen on supervising every detail, that a competent officer be made available by the department, to check my work before it goes into service. </para>
            <para>They have refused me a licence to carry out a complete overhaul, under the same system as a dictation test is given to an undesirable alien. </para>
            <para>The job of a complete overhaul which I did was quitesafe, but the work done by Airlines engineer, who is licenced to do this work, has nearly brought me in close touch with my ancestors. </para>
            <para>We thought that after the <inline font-style="italic">Kyecma</inline> inquiry, there would be a change for the better in Civil Aviation administration, but the same old game goes on, and I am asking you to raise your voice in Parliament in no uncertain way, not so much for my personal benefit, but fora fair deal all round, and to so legislate, that an honest man can make a living. </para>
          </quote>
          <para>I have here a copy of an article published in the <inline font-style="italic">Kalgoorlie Miner</inline> of the 30th July, 1940, under the headings &#34;Goldfields Air Services: Alleged Discrimination: Pilot Lewis&#39;s Complaint&#34;, which reads as follows: - </para>
          <quote>
            <para>Is the Minister for Air aware of the developments preceding the recent extension of the service of W.A. Airlines to Norseman? Is the service subsidised? If so, what explanation will now be advanced by the Department for Air in the light of the previous application by Goldfields Airways in May last for a subsidised service to Norseman, -which was refused by the department because of the &#34; stringent war-time need for economy.&#34; The Minister for Air, <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Fairbairn,</inline> who left Melbourne on the 21st July by plane on a round-Australia tour to meet the trainees and men at various air stations, will leave Perth at dawn this morning on his flight to Adelaide. Unfortunately his itinerary does not embrace Kalgoorlie and he will only make a short stop at the aerodrome while his machine is refuelled. An answer to these questions is a matter of public concern on the gold-fields and the Minister should clear them up. </para>
            <para class="block">
              <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. G.</inline>Lewis, of Goldfields Airways, stated yesterday - &#34; During the last two months I have spent most of my time, and a considerable sum of money, in trying to give elementary training to R.A.A.F. reservists who are waiting to be called up. &#34; It was in May that I approached the department, explaining that we had been doing some groundwork with a view to running a regular air-mail service from here to Norseman and then on to Perth. I received the following reply :  - </para>
          </quote>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Department of Civil Aviation</title>
          <page.no>406</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Melbourne,</title>
          <page.no>406</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>May 16, 1940</title>
          <page.no>406</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Dear Sir,</title>
          <page.no>406</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <para>With reference to your letter of the 9th May, requesting that subsidy be granted to your company to cover the operation of an air-mail service, KalgoorlieNorsenianPerth and return twice weekly, I would like to advise that the stringent war-time need for economy in department expenditure precludes any possibility of such a subsidy being granted under present circumstances. </para>
        <list type="decimal-dotted">
          <item label="2.">
            <para>Under these circumstances I presume that you will not proceed further with this proposal, but should your intentions be otherwise I would invite attention particularly to the requirements of part 7 of the Air Navigation Regulations. It would be wrong for you to presume that an airline licence would be granted for this service upon application by you, and it would be wise for you not to incur any expense in preliminary arrangements unless or until you are informed that an airline licence would be issued. </para>
          </item>
          <item label="3.">
            <para>It is regretted that no hope can be held out at present of your obtaining a subsidy for this service, but I feel that you will appreciate the need for economy in departmental expenditure at these times. - Yours, &#38;c. - E. C. Johnson (A. B. Corbett), for Director-General of Civil Aviation. &#34;This sounded quite reasonable to me,&#34; continued <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Lewis.</inline> &#34; We heard no more about it from the department, and let the matter drop until, we thought, after the war. And we concentrated on training R.A.A.F. reservists. &#34; However, others apparently did not view the necessity for economy seriously. Recently a press announcement was made to the effect that Airlines (W.A.) Ltd. had purchased <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Fairbairn&#39;s</inline> private aeroplane, and then, within about a week, another press announcement appeared, advising that this service between Kalgoorlie, Norseman and Perth (which could not be considered, owing to the necessity of stringent economy) had been granted to Airlines (W.A.) Ltd. &#34;While <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Fairbairn</inline> is passing through Kalgoorlie perhaps he would like to explain how the stringent economy is working out, in view of the fact that Airlines (W.A.) Ltd. is increasing this service to twice weekly in August.&#34; </para>
          </item>
        </list>
        <para>On the 8 th August, the honorable member for Kalgoorlie <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Green)</inline> in the House of Representatives asked the following question of the then Minister for Civil Aviation <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Fairbairn)</inline> : - </para>
        <quote>
          <para>Has the Minister for the Air seen a statement in the <inline font-style="italic">Kalgoorlie Miner</inline> of the 30th July last that <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. G.</inline> Lewis, of Goldfields Airways, had applied for a subsidy for a service between Kalgoorlie and Norseman and Perth, and was refused it on the ground that funds for the purpose were not available? 1$ he aware that since then it has been announced that Airlines (Western Australia) Limited had secured the right to conduct a service between the places mentioned? </para>
        </quote>
        <para>The Minister replied - </para>
        <quote>
          <para>
            <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Lewis</inline>himself showed to mo a newspaper article on the subject when I called at Kalgoorlie on my recent inspection flight around Australia. The facts are that <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Lewis</inline> applied for a subsidy in respect of a proposed service from Kalgoorlie to Norseman and Perth, but that subsidy could not be granted. Subsequently, during my absence, Airlines (Western Australia) Limited asked for permission to extend its service to include Norseman. Permission was granted for a trial period, but without any subsidy. </para>
        </quote>
        <para class="block">I do not wish to cast aspersions on the character of the late <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Fairbairn. His</inline> name is mentioned in this matter only because he was the Minister for Civil Aviation. </para>
        <para>As the result of the treatment meted out to him <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Lewis</inline> is now unable to conduct the business with which he has been connected for the last six years. He &#62;as been put to considerable expense that he should not have been called upon to incur, and, in addition, after the engine of his aeroplane had been subjected to a special inspection by an authorized offices of Airlines (Western Australia) Limited, it was in such a state that the bearings practically seized. The lives of not only <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Lewis</inline> but also his passengers were endangered by the inefficiency of the inspecting officer. I ask the Minister representing the Minister for Civil Aviation to have an inquiry made into this matter. <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Lewis</inline> has been treated unfairly. I know him; he has done good service to the gold-mining industry in Western Australia and has acted as pilot for the inland doctor on a number of occasions. It is wrong that he should be thrown out of business merely because a </para>
        <para class="block">Perth officer of Airlines (Western Australia) Limited carelessly overhauled his machine. There is another point. <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Lewis</inline> was informed by the Controller of Civil Aviation that, on account of the need for economy during war-time, he could not be granted a subsidy for the operation, of an air-mail service between Kalgoorlie, Norseman and Perth. He also pointed out that if <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Lewis</inline> were desirous of continuing without a subsidy a licence could not be granted. </para>
        <interjection>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>407</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KOL</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">MCBRIDE, Philip</name>
              <name role="display">Senator McBride</name>
            </talker>
            <para>-  He said that he could not assume that it would be granted. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </interjection>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>407</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>JTK</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">CUNNINGHAM, James</name>
              <name role="display">Senator CUNNINGHAM</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- Airlines (Western Australia) Limited then submitted an application and obtained the right to provide a service over the route mentioned by <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Lewis</inline> in his application. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>407</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KOL</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">MCBRIDE, Philip</name>
                <name role="display">Senator McBride</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  Without a subsidy. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>407</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>JTK</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">CUNNINGHAM, James</name>
                <name role="display">Senator CUNNINGHAM</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Yes, but <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Lewis</inline> was told definitely that itwould be of little use for him to apply for a licence to conduct a service without a subsidy. I should like the Minister to look into this matter, which is of some concern to the people of Western Australia. I do not wish to harass the Government or those in control of the Department of Civil Aviation; but if these statements be correct this man has not received justice from the department. I bring this request before the Minister representing the Minister for Air, and trust that he will take the matter up immediately with a view to seeing that justice is done to <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Lewis.</inline></para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>407</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KQF</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">LAMP, Charles</name>
              <name role="display">Senator LAMP</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- I enter a strong protest against the entry of New Zealand potatoes into the Australian market. During the week ended the 20th July, 30,000 sacks of Tasmanian potatoes were snipped to the Sydney market ; but we were subsequently advised by the Commonwealth Prices Commissioner that shipments from Tasmania were to be reduced to 20,000 sacks weekly. Such weekly shipments are insufficient to relieve the Tasmanian growers of the stocks they are carrying; but in fairness to those in control I quote the following press statement : - </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Canberra, Sunday, 28th</title>
          <page.no>407</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <para>A warning that Australia as a whole was facing a substantial deficiency of potato supplies, despite very favorable yields from Tas- mania, was issued at the week-end by Professor D. B. Copland, Commonwealth Prices Commissioner. </para>
        <para>This has been confirmed, he said, from a further review of the supply available from the current season&#39;s crop. </para>
        <para>Professor Copland made it clear that the Commonwealth would not hesitate to exercise its powers if the present voluntary arrangements to regulate Tasmanian shipments to the mainland broke down. </para>
        <para>There was no foundation, he said, for the suggestion being made in some quarters that large stocks are available from Ballarat, or a substantial surplus would be left in Tasmania at the end of the season unless deliveries were increased. </para>
        <para>Victoria would be obliged to continue importing for some time, and imports from Western Australia would be less than usual. In New South Wales local supplies were lower than normal pending the marketing of the new crop. </para>
        <para>Any substantial increase in Tasmanian deliveries at present would mean lower prices now and a shortage later. Thus both the grower and consumer would suffer. </para>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rational Control</title>
          <page.no>408</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <para>Rational control of Tasmanian shipments was all that was required to meet the position. It was unfortunate that some representatives of the growers and some merchants were encouraging a contrary attitude. </para>
        <para>The supplies of New Zealand potatoes would be spread over some weeks, and would not be allowed to depress the market. So long as Tasmanian supplies were available, weekly sales of New Zealand imports would be spread so that the market could absorb them at a reasonable price. The total of 5,000 tons to be admitted from New Zealand was only a fraction of the deficiency that had to be made good because of poor crops in all the mainland States. </para>
        <para class="block">At that period there was a heavy carryover in all Tasmanian coastal towns. Merchants at Devenport stated that their quota would be about 18,000 sacks instead of 45,000 sacks. Including the carryover when deliveries ceased on the 26th July, there were an extra 20,000 sacks available. At that time the quotation for Brownells was &#163;8 10s. a ton and for Snowflakes &#163;8 a ton. Including the carry-over there were also 11,558 sacks at Burnie, and when deliveries ceased there were approximately 23,000 sacks on hand. At that time and when New Zealand potatoes were being landed in Sydney, the price in Sydney for Brow- nells was &#163;12 and for Snowflakes and Arran Chiefs &#163;11 a ton. According to the figures supplied by the Tasmanian producers organization and used by the honorable member for Darwin <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Bell)</inline> at a deputation to the </para>
        <para class="block">Minister for Commerce <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Archie Cameron)</inline> the cost of producing potatoes is &#163;7 10s. a ton. Between 1932-38 the highest average price was &#163;8 18s. a ton and the lowest average price &#163;3 10s. a ton. I understand that the figures last year were satisfactory; but it can readily be seen that over a number of years the potato-grower does not have a rosy time. Up to the present approximately 1,000,000 sacks of Tasmanian potatoes have been shipped or are available for shipment. In 1937, when the season&#39;s total was over 1,250,000 sacks the quantity shipped by the end of June was 885,022 sacks, and from that time until the end of December 402,278 additional sacks were shipped. Should a similar quantity go forward during the next five months Tasmania will have exported 1,400,000 sacks. In view of the decision of the Commonwealth  Prices  Commissioner, it would be interesting to know the prospect of disposing of that quantity of potatoes. As new season&#39;s potatoes can be bought in Canberra  at.  present, we have to consider the effect which the new potatoes will have on the market by the end of October. Up to the last week in July, 952,456 sacks were shipped from Tasmania, and by now the 1,000,000 mark will have been passed. The potato season has been summarized by the Government Statist in this way - </para>
        <quote>
          <para class="block">The  area  under  potatoes is  estimated  at  28,200 acres,  an  increase of 1,200  acres on  the acreage sown  in  1938-39. At  an  average yield of 3.4  tons  an acre the  total  production  is  estimated  at  97,000  tons,  compared with 91,000 tons last season. This will mean a production of 1,500,000 sacks. </para>
        </quote>
        <para class="block">Twelve months ago the price of potatoes in Sydney was &#163;19 a ton, compared with the present price of &#163;12 a ton. In 1939 the price was &#163;16 a ton. In going through the north-west districts I found that the late crop of Tasmanian potatoes is exceptionally good, and that there is a good percentage of marketable tubers. The manner in which the remainder of the crop can be disposed of at a satisfactory price merits the earnest consideration of the Government. Instead of limiting shipments to 20,000 sacks weekly, the quota should be increased to 30,000 sacks. The Tasmanian growers consider that it would be preferable to ship their potatoes to Sydney and to dispose of them at a lower price rather than allow them to go to waste. We do not want potatoes to rot, as did thousands of cases of apples under the apple and pear acquisition scheme. It appears that the price fixed is fair, but with a quota of 20,000 sacks a week the growers will be unable to dispose of their surplus stocks. In the Launceston <inline font-style="italic">Examiner</inline> of the 1st August the following paragraph appeared - </para>
        <quote>
          <para>
            <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. G\</inline>H. Parsons,  chairman  of the Potato Marketing Board, said at Burnie that efforts were being made to get Professor Copland to visit Tasmania and meet the potato export comm&#39;ittee. &#34;The board,&#34; said <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Parsons,</inline> &#34;does not want the Prices Commissioner to exercise his powers to control the deliveries of potatoes, and everything is being done to avoid that&#34;. </para>
          <para>Referring to the entry of New Zealand potatoes, <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Parsons</inline> said it appeared that it would be preferable if the Commonwealth Government could hold them until Tasmanian stocks were exhausted, and then bring them on the  market if they were needed. The Government could buy New Zealand potatoes at &#163;4 10s. a ton. </para>
          <para>Why not buy whatever quantity it was considered would be needed and hold them in New Zealand until the Tasmanian potatoes were finished? he asked. Then if they were required, they could be sent to Sydney. On the other hand, if they were not required, they could be re-sold in New Zealand at very little loss. </para>
        </quote>
        <para class="block">In the circumstances which I have outlined I trust that immediate consideration will be given to the matter of increasing the quantity to be shipped from Tasmania to the mainland in order to enable the growers to dispose of the existing stocks. </para>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>409</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>JQP</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">COOPER, Walter</name>
              <name role="display">Senator COOPER</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - I support the request made by <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Brand</inline> concerning the colour patches worn by members of the Second Australian Imperial Force.- Representations have been made to me by a number of organizations in Queensland, particularly by members of units whose colour patches have been changed. I have given the matter a good deal of thought in an endeavour to see how the difficulty can be overcome, and it would appear that the suggestion made is worthy of the earnest consideration of the Government. At present there are only nine infantry battalions to a division, instead of twelve as previously, and there are only nine battalions in the three divisions that are not wearing inappropriate colours. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <para class="block">Colour patches were the only distinguishing mark of units in the last war and I fail to see how they can carry on their traditions under different colour patches. I welcome the suggestion whereby the new units will he able to preserve the traditions established by the parent battalions in the last war. The Regimental Colours which were presented after the last war bore the colours of the different units, and if these regimental colours are not handed down from the parent battalions to the new battalions the latter will lose their identity. I hope that those who are responsible for this matter will consider sympathetically the scheme that has been put forward. In a case like this, a certain amount of sentiment is desirable. If the colours are retained in the way suggested by <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Brand</inline> the new battalions will know that they are the descendants, so to speak, of battalions that took part in the 1914-18 war. </para>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>409</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>K6N</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">CLOTHIER, Robert</name>
              <name role="display">Senator CLOTHIER</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - The residents of Inglewood, a suburb of Perth, have asked me to ascertain the reason for delaying the erection of a post office there. I have already informed them that they know as much as I do about the matter, but once again I bring it to the notice of the Minister representing the Postmaster-General. The scheme for the erection of a post office at that suburb has been shelved, although the money has been passed in the estimates. Serious inconvenience is being caused to the local residents. The former PostmasterGeneral <inline font-weight="bold">(Senator A. J. McLachlan)</inline> informed me that his department would be prepared to buy a block of land for a post office at Inglewood. At that time I had the offer of one in Bayswater, and he told me that if he had known that he would not have concluded negotiations for the purchase of the site selected. I admit that there is an unofficial post office near the locality, but the two ladies who are in charge of it would, I think, get a serious shock if some one came along to buy 10s. worth of stamps. On the 7th May last, the Postmaster-General <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Thorby)</inline> wrote to me as follows on this subject: - </para>
          </talk.start>
          <quote>
            <para>With reference to your recent remarks in Parliament concerning the desire that  the  department should proceed with the erection of a building on the site which was acquired for the purpose when circumstances permit, the position is that the department found it impracticable to include provision for this work in the current year&#39;s programme - </para>
          </quote>
          <para class="block">This statement requires some explanation, because the money was passed on the estimates for the proposed post office -  the opinion being held that in the present circumstances, requirements are reasonably  met  by tlie non-official office at the corner of 9th Avenue and Beaufort Street, only 30 yards distant from  the site  acquired for a new building. </para>
          <para class="block">I admit that a shop is on the site mentioned in the letter, but an unofficial post office there does not meet the growing requirements of the district. The Police Department does not erect premises in unimportant localities, and the fact that it has decided to build police quarters opposite the site selected for the new post office is, I think, ample justification, for the completion of the undertaking. The Postmaster-General&#39;s letter continues : - </para>
          <quote>
            <para>Perhaps I should explain that the department has been obliged to defer a large number of works in the various States which, under normal conditions, would be proceeded with. But with the limitations necessarily imposed on the total expenditure which may be incurred, there has been no alternative but to visualize the degree of necessity for each project in relation to the resources at the department&#39;s disposal, and consequently I am afraid there is little prospect of the new building being erected at Inglewood in the near future. </para>
          </quote>
          <para class="block">That is the stereotyped reply which one receives from so many government departments. We are told that the matter is under consideration. I again appeal to the Postmaster-General&#39; to instruct an officer to visit the locality and ascertain for himself the needs of the district. If that is done, I feel sure that he will report favourably and, as a result, the work will be proceeded with. </para>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>410</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KOJ</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">HAYS, Herbert</name>
              <name role="display">Senator HERBERT HAYS</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - I endorse the remarks of <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Lamp</inline> concerning the serious injury done to  Tasmanian  potato-growers by the decision of the Government to  import,  specified quantities of potatoes from New Zealand. This proposal has been discussed on many occasions by deputations representing potato-growers to the Minister. . The producers in Tasmania are very much disturbed at the decision of the Government. I have been at a loss to understand what prompted the Ministry to take this action in view of the fact that those in the best position to know advised the Ministry that they believed that there were ample supplies in the Commonwealth to meet the requirements of the Australian market at a reasonable price. I do not say that they were in a better position to advise the Government than were its officials, but I do contend that they were in an equally good position, and their advice should have been heeded. Up to the present time, we have not had a satisfactory explanation of the Government&#39;s decision. The first information about it was contained in a ministerial statement that arrangements had been made with the New Zealand Government for the importation to Australia of 1,000 tons of potatoes a month for two months, to be followed later by the importation of 3,000 tons without any details as to the time of delivery. One could understand the desire of the Government to obtain adequate supplies of potatoes for the many military camps that have been established and for Government transports, and, in normal circumstances, the Government would be commended for watching the position in order to obtain supplies at a reasonable price. I point out, however, that the regulations previously promulgated prohibiting the importation of New Zealand potatoes contained a provision to meet such a situation as far as supplies for overseas shipping is concerned. So far as we have been able to learn, there is nothing to indicate a probable shortage of potatoes in the Commonwealth for some time to come. The late crops in Tasmania are heavy, and the approaching season promises to be early. Consequently, early supplies from that State will come on the market in competition with the New Zealand tubers, and the curtailment of deliveries will have a serious effect on Tasmanian growers. 1 got into communication with the Minister for Commerce immediately following the publication of the Minister&#39;s statement of the Government&#39;s proposed action, and I urged the Minister to delay action until further investigations had been made, in order to check the prospects  for the late crop. I suggest that if the Government persists in its scheme to import potatoes from New Zealand, those importations should be reserved by the Government for military camps and for transports. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>411</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K0Z</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">AYLETT, William</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Aylett</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Did the Minister take any notice of the honorable senator&#39;s suggestion ? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>411</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KOJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">HAYS, Herbert</name>
                <name role="display">Senator HERBERT HAYS</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-I do not know ; but I received a reply stating that the importation of 5,000 tons of potatoes from New Zealand would only meet a very small part of the shortage that was bound to occur later. The Government&#39;s decision to import potatoes from New Zealand affects seriously the Tasmanian industry in which much capital and labour are involved, and I cannot help thinking that the Minister for Commerce has been badly advised. It is argued that New Zealand potatoes have not the same keeping qualities as the Tasmanian product, and that it is desirable to hold back the Tasmanian supplies until the New Zealand potatoes have been sold. If there is any force in that contention, what will happen to the remaining 3,000 tons to be imported in October and November? Obviously, the argument will not stand examination for a moment. Representations have been made to the Government over and over again not to take this action, which we are told has been considered desirable owing to the probable shortage and the consequent danger of extremely high prices in Australia. But the Prices Commissioner exercises some control over prices, and has already done so in respect of potatoes. It is reasonable to expect the Government to protect the Australian market for the Australian producers. Of course, we wish to be on friendly terms with other dominions, but our first duty should be to our own people. Merely because in an occasional year like this prices were high for a time, the Government should not disturb the market. Immediately an announcement was made of the Government&#39;s intention to import potatoes from New Zealand, deliveries of Tasmanian potatoes increased by 30 to 40 per cent. No fewer than 50,000 sacks were delivered in Devonport and Burnie in one week. The growers in Tasmania, who have been asked to hold back their supplies until the New Zealand potatoes have been placed on the market, have thus been deprived of the use of considerable areas of land for the next season&#39;s crop. Some farmers, with a desire to help the Commonwealth Government, gave an undertaking to grow flax, but the land on which potatoes are being held back may not be available for that purpose. The action of the Government, while serving no good purpose, has inflicted an injustice upon the Tasmanian potato-growers. The Tasmanian Potato Marketing Board has been called into conference with the Commonwealth authorities on more than one occasion. I understand that an advisory council met in Melbourne, and was asked to express its opinion regarding the importation of potatoes from New Zealand. It was not invited to say whether it considered the Government&#39;s action advisable or what its effect would be upon the industry, but it was asked to suggest the best means of disposing of the 5,000 tons of potatoes which the Government had decided to admit from New Zealand. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>411</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KOL</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">MCBRIDE, Philip</name>
                <name role="display">Senator McBride</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I shall correct that statement. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>411</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KOJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">HAYS, Herbert</name>
                <name role="display">Senator HERBERT HAYS</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I am speaking subject to correction; but that information was given by those who attended the conference, and I have no reason to suppose that they would deliberately misrepresent the position. I have discussed this matter with representatives of the Government on more than one occasion, and I have pointed out that the New Zealand potatoes could have been taken into store by the defence authorities without preventing the delivery of Tasmanian potatoes. I should like to know why the Government permitted the importation of New Zealand potatoes in view of the fact that it was strongly advised not to do so ? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>411</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KS7</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">MACDONALD, Allan</name>
              <name role="display">Senator ALLAN MacDONALD</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - For nearly two months I have been trying to obtain a final decision from the Government with regard to the protection of the estates of interned aliens whose properties are scattered throughout the Commonwealth. In Western Australia many of these properties are deteriorating rapidly, and the position of Australian storekeepers to  whom the owners of the properties owe money for goods and services rendered is becoming acute. We have an Enemy Property Officer in Canberra, who was gazetted to the post a few days after the declaration of war; but I find that he has no jurisdiction over the estates of interned aliens. This appears to be a matter for the defence authorities, who place these aliens in internment camps. I realize that this action is necessary under war conditions, but consideration should also be given to the position of country storekeepers and others who have assisted these aliens, most of whom are primary producers, to remain on their properties and develop them. A large proportion of the tomato crops grown in the Geraldton area is produced by Italians, and in the south-western section of the State from 60 to 75 per cent, of the potatoes is grown by Italians. A similar position obtains in all of the little hamlets of the goldfields and elsewhere. Since these men have &#39;been taken from their properties their crops are deteriorating, and the potato crop expected about October and November, much of which is usually exported to the eastern States, will be ruined unless labour is engaged to look after the properties during the absence of the internees. I have requested the Defence Department to appoint immediately a curator of internees&#39; estates. Such an officer will have a full-time job to do for the duration of the war, and, until these aliens can be repatriated to their blocks, he should be able to obtain the assistance of the State agricultural departments in saving the greater portion of their crops. I hope that the matter will be taken up without further delay. Many of these Italian primary producers have been known to me. and they have no more time for Benito Mussolini than I have. They will eventually return to their homes and properties, and again become good Australian citizens. I should not like to see them returning to ruined holdings. No doubt a similar position arises in connexion with such properties in the other States. I suggest that the best way to deal with the matter is to appoint a Curator of Internees&#39; Estates, who could enlist the asistance of State agricultural departments. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>412</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>K0Z</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">AYLETT, William</name>
              <name role="display">Senator AYLETT</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - In his statement regarding the Government&#39;s war-time agricultural policy, the Minister for Commerce <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Archie Cameron)</inline> referred to the importance of the flax industry. I have been endeavouring to obtain definite information from the Government as to the price the farmers will receive for the flax grown by them, and the price the Government will get from the British authorities. A question asked by me on this subject the week before last was evaded by the Minister to whom I directed it. In his statement in the House of Representatives the Minister for Commerce said - </para>
          </talk.start>
          <quote>
            <para>The Government developed the Australian industry from 1.200 acres to 8,000 acres a few months ago, and is now organizing the planting of another 13,000 acres with seed supplied by the British Government. Fibre and tow to be produced from flax grown on the latter area will be sold to the United Kingdom Government at satisfactory prices already arranged. </para>
          </quote>
          <para class="block">The Assistant Minister for Commerce <inline font-weight="bold">(Senator McBride)</inline> mentioned various prices from &#163;90 to &#163;180 a ton. I assumed that &#163;90 was to be the price of tow, and that &#163;180 was to be the price of fine fibre. <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Gibson</inline> referred to the price paid for flax in various parts of the world, and endeavoured to convince the Senate that I was entirely wrong in the brief remarks that I made. <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Gibson</inline> said that growers in Ireland were receiving &#163;4 for flax straw after the seed had been extracted. On the contrary, Irish growers, who possess the necessary plant to process their own flax, are receiving approximately &#163;20 a ton for flax straw. How does that compare with the price offered to Australian growers, which, I understand, is on the pre-war basis of &#163;5 a ton In view of the fact that since the outbreak of war flax prices have increased by over 100 per cent, and the Australian grower&#39;s costs of production, including the cost of fertilizer, have greatly increased, the local grower should not be expected to accept pre-war prices. In order to show how far astray was <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Gibson</inline> on this subject, I take the following extract from the <inline font-style="italic">Farmers&#39; Gazette,</inline> Dublin, of the 25th May, last - </para>
          <quote>
            <para>The invasion of Belgium has involved the linen trade in a situation of the utmost gravity. It is now practically certain that any further supplies of flax from Europe will be negligible, and the industry which has large contracts on hands for supplies will have to rely mainly on home-grown flax. </para>
            <para>The Flax Production Committee has induced the Ministry of Supply to create a market for dried green flax straw, thus clearing the way for farmers who either had not the experience or the facilities for retting. </para>
            <para>The offer of a guaranteed price of &#163;10 per ton for harvested green straw has been announced to enable growers to add substantially to the acreage already sown, especially where, owing to bad weather, farmers have missed their sowings of oats and barley. </para>
            <para>Farmers responding to this urgent call have been requested to get in touch immediately with the Flax Production Committee, The King&#39;s Hall, Belfast. </para>
          </quote>
          <para>Whilst Irish farmers are guaranteed &#163;10 a ton for green straw, Australian growers are asked to produce at a maximum price of &#163;5 a ton. </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>413</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KOL</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">MCBRIDE, Philip</name>
                <name role="display">Senator McBride</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  Freight would account for some of the difference. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>413</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K0Z</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">AYLETT, William</name>
                <name role="display">Senator AYLETT</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- After allowing for freight, the difference between British prices and Australian prices is altogether too great. The Minister himself stated that the British Government had offered &#163;180 for this line of fibre, and exchange would increase that figure to over &#163;200. I take it that his figures were in sterling. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>413</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KOL</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">MCBRIDE, Philip</name>
                <name role="display">Senator McBride</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  The quotations I gave were in Australian currency. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>413</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KTR</name.id>
                <electorate>SOUTH AUSTRALIA</electorate>
                <party>NAT</party>
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">MCLACHLAN, Alexander</name>
                <name role="display">Senator A J McLACHLAN</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  How much fibre is produced out of a ton of straw? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>413</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K0Z</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">AYLETT, William</name>
                <name role="display">Senator AYLETT</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- About 10 tons of ordinary flax is required to produce one ton of extra fine live fibre. In addition, there would be the seed, and a certain amount of chaff which would be suitable for stock feed, as well as a certain amount of tow which is not so valuable. In order to show that the prices offered to Australian growers are very much below those prevailing overseas, I take the following extract from a British paper, <inline font-style="italic">The Farmers&#39; Weekly -</inline></para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <quote>
            <para>Full details of the Government&#39;s plans to expand the home flax industry were revealed this week by the Ministry of Agriculture. </para>
            <para>Large quantities of the &#34; green &#34; fibre are required by the defence services, and to meet the demand it is expected that the area devoted to flax-growing will be increased next year from 4,000 to 16,000 acres. </para>
            <para>Farmers in at least 15 English counties will take part in the campaign and 2,000 acres will be devoted to the crop in Scotland. </para>
            <para>The plan has the full backing of the Government. Factories are being expanded, new processing plants are being installed with Government aid, and machinery is to be provided for harvesting the crop. </para>
            <para>There will be three forms of contract, two of them on the lines of those already in operation. An average yield of two and a quarter tons to the acre is expected, and on the two main contracts the crop should return a price of about &#163;8 per ton to the grower. </para>
          </quote>
          <para>On the basis of 2&#188; tons of flax to the acre, at &#163;8 a ton,the return to flax-growers overseas under the British plan amounts to approximately &#163;20 an acre, whereas the maximum return which the Australian grower will be likely to receive in  a  good season, is approximately &#163;10. Obviously, freight would not account for any substantial portion of the difference between these prices. My complaint is that the Australian grower is being asked to produce flax to-day at the price at which we were producing it prior to the outbreak of war. </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>413</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KOL</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">MCBRIDE, Philip</name>
                <name role="display">Senator McBride</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  We were not producing it. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>413</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K0Z</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">AYLETT, William</name>
                <name role="display">Senator AYLETT</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I remind the Minister that his colleague, <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Gibson,</inline> declared emphatically that flaxgrowing was not a new industry in Australia, for we had been producing flax for the last 30 years. I should be very much surprised to learn that flax is not being grown in Victoria. Until the British Government recently made available 400 tons of seed Flax Fibres Proprietary Limited, which I should not be surprised to hear is a subsidiary of Broken Hill Proprietary Company Limited, enjoyed a monopoly in supplying seed to Australian growers. I understand that the Government does not contemplate processing the flax, but intends to ship it partly processed to Great Britain, where it will be refined. Such a policy is in line with the old Premiers plan, which laid it down that we should export only primary products&#39; to Great Britain. Employment could be given to thousands of men in this country through the development of the  flax  industry. Nothing prevents us from processing the flax, and supplying the fine line fibre which the British market requires. If this were done, the industry would flourish in this country. In the very near future the Government will be obliged to let the farmers know definitely where they stand. The farmers have signed  a  contract with the Government to plant a certain acreage, but doubt has arisen as to whether the Government will honour its part of the contract, because negotiations with Flax Fibres Proprietary Limited have ceased. I repeat that the Australian grower is entitled to much higher prices in view of the great increase of prices overseas above pre-war levels. If the Government does not feel inclined to give to the Australian grower the full benefit of that increase of price, it should at least give to them an increase of 50 per cent, above pre-war prices. Even then it would show a handsome profit on the transaction. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>414</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>JTR</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">DARCEY, Richard</name>
              <name role="display">Senator DARCEY</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - Honorable senators will recall that a few weeks ago I presented  a  petition to this chamber from the Australian Women&#39;s Non-party Association, dealing with the financing of the war. That petition was turned down very unceremoniously, the Opposition&#39;s attempt to have it discussed being defeated. Over the week-end I happened to contact some of the people who signed that petition, and they expressed their disgust at the attitude adopted by the Senate. Although that petition was signed by only 2,300 people, it represented the views of hundreds of thousands of Australians. Indeed, I, myself, secured 1,200 of the signatures in Hobart. Democratic government is defined as, &#34;government of the people by the people for the people &#34;. In a democratic country, the people are supposed to get what they want. Will any honorable senator opposite say that the Australian people are getting what they want? Do we want war? No; but we are getting it. Do we want poverty in themidst of plenty? Do we want malnutrition and slums? </para>
          </talk.start>
          <para>The <inline font-weight="bold">PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon. J. B. Hayes).</inline> - Order! I remind the honorable senator that he dealt with this subject at great length this afternoon. </para>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>414</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>JTR</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">DARCEY, Richard</name>
                <name role="display">Senator DARCEY</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Honorable senators opposite took up the attitude that it would be absurd for the Senate to pay heed to a petition which was signed by a comparatively small number of people. I point out that the request made in the petition which I presented has been embodied in resolutions passed in three State parliaments - the parliament  of </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para class="block">South Australia, where the United Australia party is in power, and the parliaments of Tasmania and Western Australia. Consequently, that petition should not have been rejected on the ground that it represented the views of only a few people. Honorable senators are sent to Parliament to represent the interests of the electors. The rights of the electors were thrown on one side in a cavalier fashion last week; the wishes of the people were flouted. I hope that the Government will obtain its reward for that action at the polling booths. </para>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>414</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KOL</name.id>
              <electorate>South AustraliaMinister for the Army</electorate>
              <party>UAP</party>
              <role />
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">MCBRIDE, Philip</name>
              <name role="display">Senator McBRIDE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - I welcome the suggestion made by <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Brand</inline> regarding the colour patches used by the various divisions of the Australian Imperial Force. I assure the honorable gentleman that it was not the desire of the department to extinguish the identities of the old battalions which fought nobly in the last war. As <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Cooper</inline> stated, a division to-day consists of nine battalions, instead of twelve battalions, as was the case during the last war. That means that the grouping is changed entirely. Nevertheless, the suggestion made by <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Brand</inline> will be considered, and I am sure that it will be adopted if it is practicable to do so. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <para>
            <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Lamp,</inline>in referring to the importation of New Zealand potatoes, pitted his information against the information available from various sources to the Commonwealth Government. <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Hays</inline> also referred to that subject and spoke particularly of the way in which arrangements were made between the Commonwealth Government and the Government of New Zealand for the importation of New Zealand potatoes. I should like to correct some of his statements. As honorable senators will recall, the New Zealand Minister for Supply, <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Sullivan,</inline> and other departmental officials visited Australia recently. They came here in order to investigate the possibility of purchasing certain commodities in this country which are vital to New Zealand. While they were in Australia, they raised a subject which is not unknown to honorable senators; they said that, as New Zealand purchased a great variety of Australian commodities, a certain amount of ill feeling existed in the dominion at the refusal of the Commonwealth Government to permit the importation of New Zealand potatoes, one of the few products exported by that country which are sometimes in demand in Australia. As the result of the representations made by the delegation, the Commonwealth Government made a survey in order to estimate Australia&#39;s potato production for this year. According to the most reliable information that the Government could obtain, it appeared that the production would be from 50,000 to 60,000 tons below the normal crop. </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>415</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KOJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">HAYS, Herbert</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Herbert Hays</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  Does the honorable gentleman still believe that that is the position? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>415</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KOL</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">MCBRIDE, Philip</name>
                <name role="display">Senator McBRIDE</name>
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              <para>- Yes. After the survey was made, representatives of the potato-growing industry were invited to confer with representatives of the Commonwealth Government at Melbourne on the subject of the importation of New Zealand potatoes. The  chairman  of the Potato Marketing Board of Tasmania was among the Tasmanian representatives at that conference. After a thorough examination of the information that had been supplied, the New Zealand representatives were asked what quantity of potatoes they could undertake to make available to Australia, should there be a demand here for imported potatoes. At first, <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Pickole</inline> said that he thought that New Zealand would have a surplus of about 15,000 tons. After making further inquiries, however, he intimated that the largest quantity he could guarantee was 5,000 tons. At that stage, the Government&#39;s representatives consulted the representatives of the potato-growing industry and asked whether, in view of the conditions that prevailed, they would be agreeable to the making of an agreement between the Commonwealth Government and the Government of New Zealand for the purchase of 5,000 tons of New Zealand potatoes. Those representatives were agreeable to the proposition. I stress the fact that the Commonwealth Government did not enter into any contract until the representatives of the Australian potato-growers approved of the proposal. I believe that I am right in saying also that the allocation of imports which was decided upon was regarded as satisfactory by those representatives. It was agreed that 1,000 tons of New Zealand potatoes be imported in each of the months of July, August and September and that the balance of 2,000 tons be imported according to the capacity of the Sydney market to absorb them. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>415</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KQF</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
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                <name role="metadata">LAMP, Charles</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Lamp</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  What about the telegrams sent to the Government asking that the delivery of New Zealand potatoes be stopped ? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>415</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KOL</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
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                <name role="metadata">MCBRIDE, Philip</name>
                <name role="display">Senator McBRIDE</name>
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              <para>- I am endeavouring to outline precisely the position that obtained at that time. The Commonwealth Government did not act until it had the support of the representatives of&#39; the potato-growing industry. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>415</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KOJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
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                <name role="metadata">HAYS, Herbert</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Herbert Hays</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  Will the Minister say whether importations of , New Zealand potatoes would have been permitted if the conference had not agreed to the proposal submitted to it ? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>415</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KOL</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">MCBRIDE, Philip</name>
                <name role="display">Senator McBRIDE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I shall not deal with hypothetical cases. What I have said is the truth. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>415</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K0Z</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
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                <name role="metadata">AYLETT, William</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Aylett</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  The honorable gentleman is trying to &#34; pool &#34; the representatives of the industry. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>415</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KOL</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
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                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
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                <name role="metadata">MCBRIDE, Philip</name>
                <name role="display">Senator McBRIDE</name>
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              <para>- I am not doing anything of the sort; I am giving a faithful account of what happened. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>415</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KOJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
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                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
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                <name role="metadata">HAYS, Herbert</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Herbert Hays</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  Will the honorable gentleman say that he has told the complete story? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>415</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KOL</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
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                <name role="metadata">MCBRIDE, Philip</name>
                <name role="display">Senator McBRIDE</name>
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              <para>- I have told the pertinent facts of the story. I shall endeavour to answer any other question that&#34; the honorable senator may ask. I have no connexion with the price fixing authority and cannot reply in detail to the arguments relating to the price of potatoes. Owing to seasonal conditions and for other reasons, of which honorable senators probably know more than I do, this year&#39;s crop of Tasmanian potatoes reached the market earlier than usual. That may have been due to fear of the effect that the relatively small importation of New Zealand potatoes would have on the Sydney market. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>415</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KOJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
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                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
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                <name role="metadata">HAYS, Herbert</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Herbert Hays</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  That was the disturbing factor. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>416</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KOL</name.id>
                <electorate />
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                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
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                <name role="metadata">MCBRIDE, Philip</name>
                <name role="display">Senator McBRIDE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- But I point out that the average annual consumption of potatoes in Australia exceeds 340,000 tons; the estimated deficiency this year was more than 50,000 tons. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>416</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KOJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
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                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
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                <name role="metadata">HAYS, Herbert</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Herbert Hays</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  Consumption is governed by price. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>416</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KOL</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">MCBRIDE, Philip</name>
                <name role="display">Senator McBRIDE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I admit that, but taking into consideration the price ruling to-day, the consumption this year will be over 300,000 tons, if that quantity is available. At any rate, some factor caused a rush of Tasmanian potatoes onto the Sydney market. The quantity received was above the normal supply and too great to be absorbed with the price at its present level, which honorable senators apparently agree to be fair to growers and consumers alike. In order to see that the market would be fed so that the price would be kept at a reasonable level, the Commonwealth Prices Commissioner, Professor Copland, went to Tasmania and attempted to calm the fears of the people who believed that there were greater quantities of potatoes in Australia than the Commonwealth Government estimated. He pointed out that if they were allowed to flood the Sydney market at this time, there would be a temporary glut, the price would fall, and before the end of this year there would be an acute scarcity and prices would reach famine height. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>416</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KOJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">HAYS, Herbert</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Herbert Hays</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  Many people have not taken into account that the delivery of the new crop was very early this year. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>416</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KOL</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">MCBRIDE, Philip</name>
                <name role="display">Senator McBRIDE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- That may be the case; I shall not argue upon that point. I shall only give to the Senate the information which the Commonwealth Government possesses; it is obtained from sources which the Government regards as the most reliable available. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para>
            <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Allan</inline>MacDonald raised the subject of the maintenance of properties of internees. That matter is receiving consideration from the Government at the present time, and I hope that the Government will soon be able to make a decision upon it. But I am impelled to discount one of the statements made by the honorable senator. The honorable gentleman said that many of the interned Italians have as little liking for Mussolini as he has. The only inference to be drawn from that is that those Italians have been wrongfully interned. I refute that suggestion. The department is particularly careful to make a thorough investigation before interning anybody. Naturalized Italians have full rights of appeal even after they have been interned. I deny that the department has wrongfully interned any alien in Australia. I reassure the Senate that the problem of the maintenance of alien property is being dealt with and I hope that the Government will announce its policy on the subject before long. </para>
          <para>SenatorFOLL (Queensland - Minister for the Interior) &#91;9.58&#93;.  -  I shall bring the remarks made by <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Aylett</inline> in relation to the flax industry to the notice of the Minister for Supply and Development <inline font-weight="bold">(Sir Frederick Stewart)</inline> who is the responsible Minister. </para>
          <para>I shall ensure that the statements made by <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Cunningham</inline> in connexion with Goldfields Airways are brought to the notice of the Minister for Air. In view of the serious statements that the honorable senator quoted, the subject is worthy of a very searching inquiry. The suggestion that sabotage may have been practised on the aeroplane by a competitor company by placing whitemetal and a cotter pin in the engine and that the lives of <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Lewis</inline> and a passenger . were endangered is so serious that I shall ask the Minister for Air to arrange for a thorough inquiry into the matter. </para>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>416</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KUA</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>UAP</party>
              <role>Minister for Trade and Customs</role>
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">MCLEAY, George</name>
              <name role="display">Senator McLEAY</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - <inline font-style="italic">in reply</inline> - I wish to make a brief reference to the points raised by <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Herbert</inline> Hays with respect to the price of potatoes. According to the information received to-day, there may possibly be a shortage. When Professor Copland was in Tasmania he was advised that the crop would not realize the quantity estimated ; but I believe that the difficulty will be overcome by feeding the Sydney market regularly, and by preventing large Tasmanian consignments from arriving simultaneously with shipments from New Zealand. I urge honorable senators not to suggest that the price should be forced down below the cost of production. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>417</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KQF</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">LAMP, Charles</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Lamp</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-Will the Government purchase the carry-over? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>417</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KUA</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">MCLEAY, George</name>
                <name role="display">Senator McLEAY</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I repeat for the benefit of those with some commercial intelligence that full inquiries have been rondo throughout the Commonwealth, and that the Government is most anxious that ill-informed honorable senators shall not suggest a flooding of the market which can only result in prices being forced down. The Government is satisfied that the Commonwealth Prices Commissioner will fix a reasonable price, and that with organized distribution the market will not be affectedunduly. I am convinced that there will not be any glut and that reasonable prices will be obtained. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>417</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K0Z</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">AYLETT, William</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Aylett</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- We are only asking that New Zealand potatoes he kept off the Sydney market. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>417</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KUA</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">MCLEAY, George</name>
                <name role="display">Senator McLEAY</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I am sure that those who do not wish to make political capital out of this matter will appreciate the position. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>417</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KQF</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">LAMP, Charles</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Lamp</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Who is making political capital out of the position? That statement is untrue. A deputation waited on the Minister. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>417</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>10000</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
              <name role="display">The PRESIDENT</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- Order! </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>417</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KQF</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">LAMP, Charles</name>
                <name role="display">Senator Lamp</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The statement is incorrect. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>417</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KUA</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">MCLEAY, George</name>
                <name role="display">Senator McLEAY</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I desire to inform honorable senators that the Prime Minister proposes to recommend to  His Excellency  the GovernorGeneral that a dissolution of the House of Representatives be granted with a view to the holding of the general elections on Saturday, the 21st September. The Prime Minister has informed Bus  Excellency  that the necessary financial provision is being made for carrying on the public services of the Commonwealth during the period that must elapse before Parliament can reassemble. It it proposed that the date of issue of the writs shall beFriday, the 30th August, that the closing date for the receipt of nominations shall be Saturday the 7th September, and that writs shall be returnable on or before Saturday the 26th October. In accordance with the established practice the elections for the Senate will also be held on Saturday the 21st September. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para class="block">Question resolved in the affirmative. </para>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>PAPERS</title>
        <page.no>417</page.no>
        <type>papers</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <para>The following papers were, pre  sented :  - </para>
      <para>Arbitration (Public Service) Act - Determinations by the Arbitrator, &#38;c. - </para>
      <para>No. 19 of 1940  -  Amalgamated Postal Workers&#39; Union of Australia; Australian Postal Electricians&#39; Unions Australian Third Division Telegraphists&#39; and Postal Clerks&#39; Union; Commonwealth Telephone Officers Association; Fourth Division Postmasters, Postal Clerks&#39; and Telegraphists&#39; Union; Meat Inspectors&#39; Association, Commonwealth Public Service; and Commonwealth Public Service Artisans&#39; Association. </para>
      <para>No. 20 of 1940  -  Commonwealth Temporary. Clerks&#39; Association. </para>
      <para>No. 21 of 1940  -  Australian Postal Electricians&#39; Union. </para>
      <para>No. 22 of 1940  -  Arms, Explosives and Munition Workers&#39; Federation of Australia. </para>
      <para>Commonwealth Conciliation and Arbitration Act- Regulations amended - Statutory Rules, 1940, No. 153. </para>
      <para>Commonwealth Public Service Act- Appointments - Department of - </para>
      <para>Attorney-General - J. M. A. Stirling&#39;, K. N. Rimington, and H. A. Roberts. </para>
      <para>Civil Aviation - E. C. Johnston, A. P. McComb, and H. A. Mann. </para>
      <para>Interior - J. A. Campbell, H. V. Davies, and F. J. Doolan. </para>
      <para>Iron and Steel Products Bounty Act - Return for year 1839-1940. </para>
      <para>Motor Vehicle Engine Bounty Act - Return for year 1939-40. </para>
      <para>Tractor Bounty Acts - Return for year 1939-40. </para>
      <para>Lands Acquisition Act - Land acquired at - </para>
      <para>Bankstown, New South Wales - For Defence purposes. </para>
      <para>Carlton, Victoria - For Postal purposes </para>
      <para>Puckapunyal, Victoria - For Defence purposes. </para>
      <para>Warren, New South Wales - For Postal purposes. </para>
      <para>National Security Act - Regulations amended -Statutory Rules 1040, Nos. 151, 152, 158, 159, 160. </para>
      <para>Seat of Government Acceptance Act and Seat of Government (Administration) Act- </para>
      <para>Ordinances of 1940 - </para>
      <para>No. 10- Real Property. </para>
      <para>No.17 - Canberra Community Hospital (No. 3). </para>
      <para>Regulations amended  -  1940  -  No.6 (Public Baths ordinance). </para>
      <para>Supply and Development Acts - Regulations amended - StatutoryRules 1940, No. 154. </para>
      <para>Commonwealth Employees&#39; Compensation Act - Regulations amended - Statutory Rules 1940, No. 157. </para>
      <para>Defence Act - </para>
      <para>Regulations amended - Statutory Rules 1940, No. 150. </para>
      <para>Royal Military College - Report for 1939. </para>
      <para>Post and Telegraph Act and Wireless Telegraph; Act - Regulations amended - StatutoryRules 1940, No. 150. </para>
      <para>Nauru - Report to the Council of the League of Nations on the Administration of Nauru, during the year 1939. </para>
      <para>New Guinea - Report to the Council of the League of Nations on the Administration of the Territory of New Guinea, for the year 1938-39. </para>
      <para class="block">Senate adjourned at 10.4 p.m. </para>
    </debate>
  </chamber.xscript>
</hansard>