Removes CBZ #3353
Removes CBZ #3353
Conversation
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The problem isnt that they are particularly weak (although I do think some of the nerfs were over zealous), more that the changelingsn ever use their ability and only stay ad 1 person |
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Pretty sure this exist so sec cant cremate 10 people hoping 1 of them was a ling, considering you cannot convict a ling any other way |
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Watch me as i build a bz chamber for sec during ling |
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Wait this does not remove bz metabolics right? |
No. As soon as you get called out and stamina crit, it's over. If you get dragged to brig, you get exposed, crit and cremated. If you biodegrade, fake die or trie to escape, you get cremated. As soon as you meet a officer eager to arrest you, you HAVE to use your abilities and try to fight, because any other options means certain cremation/death. For how weak lings are, and how easy it is to screw up, there shouldn't be a method for security to 'declare valid' on lings. There is really no counterplay to CBZ and it's never used to kill or fight changelings, it's sole purpose is to feed it to people in brig and declare them valid. There's no downsides or smart plays, it is a really shit mechanic. fCBZ is a thing, but CBZ is obtained mainly through cargo, and non self-antag chemist is allowed to make fCBZ anyway. And there's no reason for it to be a "expose antag" formula. Not for lings.
It's almost like they have to THINK. Wow. There's more to sec then disabler and harmbaton? :pikachuface:
Pretty much using any ability with 1 person around convicts people of being a changeling.
No, bz metabolytes are still a thing and they work like before. |
Isn't that the point of having them in the first place? At the very least you can get away on your own. Ling has some comedically OP shit(transformation sting if properly used) to easily kill people with or to simply escape. Not to mention you can instantly and silent transform yourself(including clothing) into some one else which makes it decently easy to evade sec if they arent super carefull The underlying issue is that lings essentially have a infinite source of mulligan which means they become uncatchable. If you THINK some one is a ling they can either claim ignorance and be let go or simply transform and do the same strat. While a normal traitor who gets caught is essentially valid the entire round but this doesn't count for lings because they aren't identifiable. They can change instantly with little to no cost or even get "confirmed" lings killed by transform stinging some one and framing them |
There's multiple mechanics at check here. Flesh clothing/disguise can easily identify you as a ling and so can wearing multiple IDs. Wearing proper disguise and playing mind tricks can be used to trick officers. Of course, none of this works if sec has a 'antag test' serum. If someone thinks you are a ling, you will be dragged to brig on the smallest suspicion where the 'valid check' will be forced onto you. That's not fun for a stealth antag. As for identifying, lings have to expose themselves to gain a kill or escape. |
A kill they dont even need to confirm because they can change disguise and walk away. A CBZ is not optimal and you get power game sec sure but having nothing at all makes catching a ling stupidly hard without killing off alot of innocent people via cremation and justifies shit secing |
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+1. CBZ is a pretty unfun chemical, the ability to near-instantly out someone as a stealth antag without any cooperation is a mechanical crutch, detection methods as strong as CBZ shouldn't be easily portable either. Maybe we could have a slower, more thoughtful method for detecting lings? Something like a slightly randomized chemical reaction with ling blood. (i.e a list of possible reactions ling blood can have that's picked every round) This way sec can only really test suspects that they already have in captivity, which is much more engaging for both parties compared to running around jabbing people with insta-reveal-chem |
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Not that that's expected in this PR 馃槄 but it would be good to have something like the aforementioned alternative merged along with this. Even if CBZ is bad, sec should have some way of testing lings, CBZ is just too good at it |
:S Because in regular traitor rounds sec just goes around killing people. |
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keep chem cbz + fcbz but remove cargo one |
actuely kinda fair, main point from it being from cargo was though if there wasent a chemist, But I think thats a pretty good middle ground |
I have seen lings frame innocents, traitors atleast have items to rat em out + we all know that shotgunning sec officer |
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No |
Weak lmao. Instant aggro grab, disarm weapon stealing, adrenals, EMP, combat knife/shield combo, infinite mulligan, passive heal, AOE confusion/stun, etc. Whilst lings aren't the gods of yesteryear they're still easily on par with traitors. One reason this exists is because if you find any other antag near a dead body there will be some sort of evidence which will allow you to determine they're the murderer, instead of being some hapless passerby. The murder weapons of lings however are completely undetectable, so they'll be released due to lack of evidence whilst half of deadchat saltily orbits this ling as they swap into a new identity upon leaving their cell to go find another victim. This isn't being a "stealth antag", it's getting off scot free because you rolled the get out of jail free card. |
Summed up what I wanted to say perfectly. Pretty much this |
I don't know... Loudly retracting the armblade or falling into a regen coma pretty much gives them away. Also do I need to mention that they literally need to stand still next to a target for 5 whole minutes? My point is, lings are supposed to haplessly blend into crowds and reveal themselves with abilities. It should take more to reveal lings than 1u of antag expose serum. Also tots can wear a mask and soap their weapons. I don't see your point. Might as well glue the heretic's stuff into their hands next because "stealth antags can hide their gear in a backpack and get off scot free" |
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No. I remember three different rounds where the only way for security to do ''ling check'' Was to grab people that they seemed suspicious, put them to sleep and debrain them and test it on an MMI, that was an awful experience the three times i witnessed it and i'd rather choose for security to have a ling check like CBZ injection than that stupid thing. It's not like they're going to connect CBZ to the air and fill all the station to prevent you from gaining a single use of power, in fact since you're expected to be mostly stealth you'll need to get caught on the first place, lings have plenty of tools to overpower a lot of situations. In any case, the ideal scenario is to have a ling test someway or another. |
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In agreement. Think bag searches, except you can't even hide it. |
Such a test is metagaming and against the rules. |
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Ok so here are my main two points against CBZ:
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If you're literally right around the corner you probably heard them get melee'd anyway, my example was referring to the moments/minutes after when they're still with the corpse. Regen coma isn't a forced thing, if a ling dies infront of someone they'd be smart to not revive and get up until a moment they're alone or can easily escape.
Absorb another changeling objective was removed, if you need to impersonate another crew member you can just sting them. It also doesn't even take that long to absorb.
Sure, and if there's no reasonable suspicion to test them then they shouldn't be under blue alert. Only if it's red alert because of say a ling murderboning and constantly evading arrest then I can understand more people being forcibly tested. Same way there's mass mindshielding when there's revs/cult. Only if there's a severe threat to the station is martial law in effect and considering shifts start at green alert now it should take a lot to get here.
If they have weapons and soap they can be found on the "hapless passerby" and checked against the victim's damage report. My point here is if you're dumb enough to stand alone next to a person you just killed and not try to escape despite all the abilities you have for doing so then you should be able to be determined as the culprit. This situation is far different from "haplessly blending into crowds"'. |
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| /obj/item/clothing/suit/armor/bulletproof) | |||
| crate_name = "bulletproof armor crate" | |||
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| /datum/supply_pack/security/armory/cling_test | |||
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Who the hell thought this was a good idea?
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I hate lings as much as the next guy but this was objectively stupid. |
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I can't find where it was ever added to the wiki in the first place. I assume it wasn't, but if I was wrong please show me where it is. |
In this case, only in Chemsitry and Fake CBZ is there also. |
When you are going to remove an entire feature, do a Git-Blame on the code you want to remove. https://www.atlassian.com/git/tutorials/undoing-changes/git-revert For example, from TG:
Other PR being reverted. |
This reverts commit 50436b1.
This reverts commit 50436b1.
About The Pull Request
Removes CBZ. Reverts #1412.
Why It's Good For The Game
There shouldn't be a easily obtainable, large supply of "expose antag" formula.
Especially for lings; a weak stealth antag who's only defense is hiding in maints.
Changelog
馃啈
del: cbz, fake cbz and changeling test crates are no more
/:cl: