created quests for lgbtq people

[jan-leila]

Leaving as a draft for now because I dont have any icons for things yet and im waiting for some friends to translate some of the text for me, but other then that PR is almost ready to go

Added:

• Quest to label if there is signage on a places relation to LGBTQ people
• Quest to specify what that relation is
• Quest to label if a lgbtq ~ primary|only venue targets a specific gender
• Quest to label if a lgbtq ~ primary|only venue targets specifically transgender people

Still needed:

• icons
• translations

relevant wiki page: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:lgbtq

[Helium314]

lgbtq:signed does not have any uses according to taginfo.
I would prefer merging the access and the signed quests, so the access quest would just allow a not signed answer.

[jan-leila]

as far as I can tell there isnt really any used tag that could be used to mark the quest as completed if a place just has nothing posted

[jan-leila]

also the other goal with separating out the quests like that was to hide the complexity of picking what kind of signage behind the knowledge of their actually being signage

[jan-leila]

and also a "no" on the signage does not mean the place is in that neutral state it just means its not apparent when you walk by, I wouldn't want places that on their website say they are lgbtq=primary but dont have any sings displaying that in person getting marked at the neutral state

[Helium314]

as far as I can tell there isnt really any used tag that could be used to mark the quest as completed if a place just has nothing posted

SCEE guidelines are more loose than for SC, there are already several quests that don't fulfill no unanswerable quests.

also the other goal with separating out the quests like that was to hide the complexity of picking what kind of signage behind the knowledge of their actually being signage

With the downside of pushing a completely new tag exclusively via SCEE.
Also that tag likely doesn't fulfill the only guideline that is still strict as it does also affect non-users (no spam).

[mscherer]

As said on telegram, I think that list would benefit from having a comment that explain why it is here. E.g., is it because we think tagging in those countries would be dangerous for the tagger, for the tagged subject, for the project, or generate too much false positive and/or vandalism ?

From what I see, the list is made of countries where homosexuality is illegal. While I think that's a good idea for 98% of the list, I also think it miss a few countries. For example, Russia (RU) banned the LGBT movement for extremism, and there is numerous reports of crackdown since 6 months. Yet, homosexuality is not illegal per se, and Russia is not on the list. But I think having that quest displayed in Russia might have consequence for the software project in itself (most likely being banned in Russia or something like that ).

And there is also the question of list change. Singapore (SG) struck down its law on homosexuality last year. So it should arguably be removed. The law was also struck because only male homosexuality was affected, which also bring the question of a very hypothetical place for lesbians in a country where that's not illegal, but where a equivalent for men would. Would that country be on the list ? (that's very hypothetical, I never heard of anything like this in practice, and if that exist, that can be tagged outside SCEE so it might not be a bid deal). Kazakhstan (KZ) is also looking at enacting the same law as Russia (and so does Georgia, afaik).

Given the size of the list, I also think that it would be nice to have a comment with the full name of the country, as well as the reason. And maybe order by alphabetical order of the iso code as well.

[jan-leila]

I agree with everything said here, the list was very much just a first draft that amalgamated from a few human rights websites and was no doubt out of date, for the reason listed with the things would you mind getting that list together?

[mscherer]

So I finally found the time to split and review the list: https://github.com/mscherer/StreetComplete/tree/lgbtq

Not sure how do you want to integrate the fix.

Some countries decriminalized homosexuality in 2022 and 2023 so they have been removed. I added also one that was missing (Iran) and split along the divide "homosexuality illegal" and "lgbt propaganda" law. (and I also noticed I got confused between Kazakhstan and Kirgistan...). I am also checking if one is missing, so the list might change (hence the edit of my comment)

[mscherer]

With the current list, that would prevent mapping in place where trans folks are more protected (and so potentially more accepted) than homosexual ones. For example, as I discovered while reading A Global Analysis of Transgender Rights: Introducing the Trans Rights Indicator Project (TRIP) , Pakistan score a lot higher on the indicator for trans protection than on regular (eg LGB) indicators.

[jan-leila]

this would also be a good idea but I think how we implement it is a bit more difficult because for this quest to show up a place already needs to be tagged as LGBTQ primary, maybe we get the list of pro trans countries and anti LGB countries together and find the intersection and create a new quest just for them?

[mscherer]

Is there such a place ?

While I know that having "men/women/trans or enbies" wouldn't be appropriate for a survey when asking to people, I suspect that's what we would see on the ground when it come to target audience, and so I think what is on the ground should be guiding the UX rather than the underlying model of human classification.

But as I can't think of any example, maybe I am missing something ?

[jan-leila]

this is for like gay man bars, or lesbian bars, I'm thinking maybe I make it a checklist though for bars that are like "men and enbys" or "woman and enbys"

[jan-leila]

SCEE guidelines are more loose than for SC, there are already several quests that don't fulfill no unanswerable quests.

gotcha, ill remove it then, do you have a example you can point me to on how we go about hiding the quest locally when there isnt a clear answer?

[Helium314]

do you have a example you can point me to on how we go about hiding the quest locally when there isnt a clear answer?

Either you use other answers -> can't say -> hide, or use the quick hide button that can be enabled in Settings / UI, or if you want to bake it into the quest you can add some UI element or other answer that calls osmQuestController.hide(questKey as OsmQuestKey) (get the controller using private val osmQuestController: OsmQuestController by inject()

[Helium314]

I guess putting it into the form makes most sense, as (around here) it would be the most common answer.
Unfortunately hiding is a rather bad thing when hiding is the "answer" most of the time, as it means the quest will still be shown to other users... but given that SCEE only has ~500 active users (see here), there is hope that 2 users in the same area is a rather rare thing.

[mnalis]

Unfortunately hiding is a rather bad thing when hiding is the "answer" most of the time

Yeah, quests with that issue that becomes very tedious very fast in my experience (usually resulting in me disabling the quest in most of my presets). For things where majority of answers are "not signed", perhaps an SCEE Overlay might be better solution than the Quest? That would seem to address that very problem.

(Relatedly, also people might be interested in creating LGBTQ+ theme for https://mapcomplete.org/ as that creates both a browseable map and a specialized quest; somewhat similar to how SC(EE) Overlays work, but available in regular desktop&mobile browsers)

[Helium314]

Another way would be using a server (but considerably more work for setting up the server). E.g. Osmose quests are "hidden" for everyone when you answer it's a false positive.

[Helium314]

I'd like to summarize what is still to be done here

• icons
• maybe don't use Enbys, I only understood the meaning from the string name quest_lgbtq_gender_specialization_non_binary (but no change required)
• don't tag whether it's signed, see above
  • maybe allow hiding the quest directly
  • or maybe tie element selection to a web service similar to osmose (but that's a lot of work)

Anything else?
Translations are mentioned, but can be done later with Weblate.