Verb subcategory "infinitive" #160
Comments
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There also is a list of "qualitative verbs". Again, it would be great to have infinitive and qualitative of verbs, but this seems like a residue of a once ambitious plan that got abandoned. Although ⲫⲁϧⲉⲣ is surprising in that context C20 | CF89 | | ⲁⲓⲁⲓ |
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Not sure if this is helpful, but note that you can get pretty extensive lists of stative vs. pre-nominal vs. independent forms and their lemmas using Scriptorium data. You can select some corpora and query statives using https://corpling.uis.georgetown.edu/annis/scriptorium To get a list just use the frequency breakdown function under More > Frequencies. Needless to say, the forms will overlap, and there will also be some tagging errors, especially for lower frequency forms and if you include corpora for which tagging has not been manually checked. |
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Thank you Amir,the query I used isn1#pos="VSTAT" |n1#pos="V" . pos="PPERO" |n1#pos="V" . pos=/ART|N.*/But all I get is just the counts. How do I get the lemmas?I thought I had reached rock bottom already LOL, but this is painstaking work so all help is appreciated!Cheers,Martijn Linssen
-------- Original message --------From: Amir Zeldes <notifications@github.com> Date: 07/03/2021 17:23 (GMT+01:00) To: KELLIA/dictionary <dictionary@noreply.github.com> Cc: Martijn Linssen <github@martijnlinssen.com>, Author <author@noreply.github.com> Subject: Re: [KELLIA/dictionary] Infinitive verbs (#160)
Not sure if this is helpful, but note that you can get pretty extensive lists of stative vs. pre-nominal vs. independent forms and their lemmas using Scriptorium data. You can select some corpora and query statives using pos="VSTAT" and find presuffixal forms via pos="V" . pos="PPERO", or prenominal forms via pos="V" . pos=/ART|N.*/ in ANNIS:
https://corpling.uis.georgetown.edu/annis/scriptorium
To get a list just use the frequency breakdown function under More > Frequencies. Needless to say, the forms will overlap, and there will also be some tagging errors, especially for lower frequency forms and if you include corpora for which tagging has not been manually checked.
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Yes, ANNIS is very flexible, but as a result it's a little more complicated: you can either add the lemma and norm to your query like this and then use auto-mode in the frequency analysis:
Or you can use a query without lemmas and add the lemma and norm annotations to the frequency table in manual mode:
The result will show all included properties of the search nodes like this, and can be downloaded as a TSV file:
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Is KELLIA still alive?I curently have 21 open issues, the oldest of which dates back 1.5 years ago. One of my more recent issues, #179, is a clear and obvious example of nobody being in charge of this project or feeling or demonstrating any reponsibility in any way. In a business environment, issues get either accepted or rejected (both provided with a reason and feedback) and put on a list of "known issues" in case of Acceptance. I'm not a paying customer but I do consider myself to "be involved" in the sense that I find myself to benefit from KELLIA becoming robust, consistent and less error-prone, and I involve time and energy towards achieving those goals. If the latter is fruitless because no effort is invested from within the KELLIA project, I will just cease doing so and update my publications with the altered status of the KELLIA project Regards, Martijn Linssen |
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@m-linssen I'm not sure this GitHub issue is the right place for this discussion, but perhaps I can provide information that might help: KELLIA as a project was a bilateral US-German grant funded by the NEH in the US and the DFG in Germany, which ran from May 2015 through May 2019. As such, you can certainly say that KELLIA is no longer running. However many of the people who collaborated on the KELLIA project are still in the field and now working within the framework of other grants, including myself and other who have posted here, and we sometimes use the name loosely to refer to transatlantic collaborations in the same topic space (KELLIA partners, tools etc.). Although we are still working on Coptic, and some of us are actively contributing to the further development of the CDO, many of us no longer have budget or hours to devote directly to this objective, and/or we sometime need to prioritize other objectives based on our current project workplans. That said, I am personally committed to supporting the CDO interface, which I hope we are doing an adequate job of here at Georgetown, and this has all synergized with some of the goals for our currently running project. If the responses above about how to find statives in Coptic Scriptorium are satisfactory, then you are very welcome to close this issue and make the list smaller! And if you have some capacity to take on some of the open issues and improve the underlying data, then I think we would all welcome those contributions, though I might ask @dwerning and @simondschweitzer to comment on what would be the best way to integrate improvements to the CDO XML. |
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Dear @m-linssen, Thank you for all the careful bug reports and comments of the past. As to the database of Coptic lemmata in CDO, i.e., the Comprehensive Coptic Lexicon: Including Loanwords from Ancient Greek (v1.2: https://doi.org/10.17169/refubium-2333), the responsible team at the Thesaurus Lingue Aegyptiae project (BBAW Berlin, https://aaew.bbaw.de/de) and DDGLC project (Freie Universität Berlin, https://www.geschkult.fu-berlin.de/en/e/ddglc) take responsibility for the indigenous Coptic words and Greek loanwords, respectively. At the moment, however, both these teams are nearly fully occupied with (re)launches of their respective online publications, which has absolute priority at the moment, probably for another 6 to 9 month or so. However, some work of the CCL is currently executed, but too slowly to publish a new version right now. However, an updated, revised version of the Comprehensive Coptic Lexicon is going to be incorporated into the Thesaurus Lingue Aegyptiae. And, in this context, we will go through all the comments of yours and others and work on that, at the latest. Some issues have already been considered (internally). Once we incorporate the CLL into the TLA, we can also update the Coptic Dictionary Online with the updated Comprehensive Coptic Lexicon, if our cooperation partners who takes case of the web app can integrate this into their work plans. |
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Dear Daniel, thank you very much for this detailed elaboration and explanation. It is always helpful to get corrected, and I'll make sure to reflect your comments in my Translation and Commentary, which will get updated in the next 3-6 monthsCCL is the entity / product then, CDO its current only form of presentation, and KELLIA was a project that among others brought forth both, correct? All that solely from the perspective of the end user like me, of course. My goto source for KELLIA is https://kellia.uni-goettingen.de/about.htmlOn a side note: I know of TLA, that's about it.I can keep reporting bugs and comments to this github, but at least I now know that such is not in vainA general comment from a middle aged man who is never too shy to give his opinion: we all go through life "doing projects", and we hurry from one to the other. Sometimes we "forget" that every project involves a product, and that some of those products continue to carry on, long after its project has been abandoned.We always prepare for projects, and then we execute them. But we hardly ever "post-pare" for them, we don't carry them over, wrap 'm up: we neglect the products that they brought forthTo make a long story short: always reserve 5-10% of your project budget for preserving its resulting product. It is the least sexy part of a project and it requires an entirely different mindset and vision on length / width of horizon, but it will make your product self-sufficient, and send it off safely on its wayI'll be more than happy to keep supporting the "Comprehensive Coptic Lexicon: Including Loanwords from Ancient Greek"Cheers, Martijn Linssen
-------- Original message --------From: "Daniel A. Werning" ***@***.***> Date: 09/10/2021 10:18 (GMT+01:00) To: KELLIA/dictionary ***@***.***> Cc: Martijn Linssen ***@***.***>, Mention ***@***.***> Subject: Re: [KELLIA/dictionary] Infinitive verbs (#160)
Dear @m-linssen,
Thank you for all the careful bug reports and comments of the past. As to the database of Coptic lemmata in CDO, i.e., the Comprehensive Coptic Lexicon: Including Loanwords from Ancient Greek (v1.2: https://doi.org/10.17169/refubium-2333), the responsible team at the Thesaurus Lingue Aegyptiae project (BBAW Berlin, https://aaew.bbaw.de/de) and DDGLC project (Freie Universität Berlin, https://www.geschkult.fu-berlin.de/en/e/ddglc) take responsibility for the indigenous Coptic words and Greek loanwords, respectively. At the moment, however, both these teams are nearly fully occupied with (re)launches of their respective online publications, which has absolute priority at the moment, probably for another 6 to 9 month or so. However, some work of the CCL is currently executed, but too slowly to publish a new version right now.
However, an updated, revised version of the Comprehensive Coptic Lexicon is going to be incorporated into the Thesaurus Lingue Aegyptiae. And, in this context, we will go through all the comments of yours and others and work on that, at the latest. Some issues have already been considered (internally). Once we incorporate the CLL into the TLA, we can also update the Coptic Dictionary Online with the updated Comprehensive Coptic Lexicon, if our cooperation partners who takes case of the web app can integrate this into their work plans.
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I ran into a "Vb. Infinitiv", and found that those got marked as such in what seemed to be the beginning of the project:
[[[
EDIT BEGIN:
This list is based on my dictionary version, which is the very first (V1).
I have let this intact for traceability, and will provide the proper list enclosed in {{{ and }}}
C63 | ⲁⲗⲱⲗ
C91 | ⲁⲙⲟⲛⲓ
C110 | (ⲁ)ⲙⲉϩⲓ
C110 | (ⲉ)ⲙⲉϩⲓ
C110 | ⲁⲙⲁϩⲉ
C110 | ⲁⲙⲁϩⲓ
C110 | ⲁⲙⲁϩⲧⲉ
C110 | ⲁⲙⲉϩⲧⲉ
C110 | ⲉⲙⲁϩⲧⲉ
C110 | ⲉⲙⲁϩⲧⲉ
C110 | ⲙⲁϩⲉ
C126 | ⲁⲛⲁⲓ
C126 | ⲁⲛⲉⲓ
C143 | ⲁⲛⲟⲛⲓ
C216 | ⲁⲥⲁⲓ
C216 | ⲁⲥⲉⲓⲧⲉ
C216 | ⲁⲥⲓⲁⲓ
C216 | ⲁⲥⲓⲉ
C216 | ⲉⲥⲉⲓⲧⲉ
C216 | ⲉⲥⲓⲉ
C216 | ⲉⲥⲓⲉⲉⲓ
C253 | ⲁϣⲃ
C255 | ⲁϣ(ⲉ)ⲉⲓ
C255 | ⲁϣ(ⲉ)ⲉⲓⲧⲉ
C255 | ⲁϣⲁ(ⲉ)ⲓ
C255 | ⲁϣⲏⲉⲓ
C255 | ⲁϣⲏⲓⲧⲉ
C329 | ⲃⲉⲃⲉ
C329 | ⲃⲉⲃⲓ
C329 | ⲃⲉⲃⲟⲩ
C329 | ⲃⲉⲉⲃⲉ
C335 | ⲃⲉⲃⲟⲩ
C370 | ϥⲱⲕ
C370 | ⲃⲱⲕ
C370 | ⲃⲱⲕ
C370 | ⲃⲱⲹ
C395 | ⲃⲱⲕⲉ
C439 | ⲃⲟⲗⲃⲗ
C444 | ⲃⲱⲗⲕ
C503 | ⲃⲱⲱⲣⲉ
C504 | ⲃⲱⲱⲣⲉ (ⲉⲃⲟⲗ)
C508 | ⲃⲣⲃⲣ
C509 | ⲃⲣⲃⲣ (ⲉⲃⲟⲗ)
C510 | ⲃⲣⲃⲣ (ⲉϩⲣⲁⲓ)
C536 | ⲃⲱⲣϭ
C546 | ⲃⲱⲥⲧ
C562 | ϥⲱⲧⲉ
C562 | ⲃⲱⲧⲉ
C562 | ⲃⲱⲧⲉ
C564 | ⲃⲱⲧⲥ (ⲉⲃⲟⲗ)
C566 | ⲃⲱⲧⲥ (ⲉⲃⲟⲗ ⲉ-, ⲟⲩⲃⲉ-, ⲛⲉⲙ)
C579 | ⲃⲱϣ
C605 | ⲃⲱϩⲧ
C607 | ⲃⲓϫⲓ
C607 | ⲃⲓϭⲉ
C663 | ⲉⲗⲧⲟϥ
C663 | ⲉⲗⲧⲟⲧϥ
C804 | ⲑⲱϣⲡ
C804 | ⲑⲱⲃϣ (ⲉⲃⲟⲗ)
C810 | ⲑⲉⲛⲓ
C810 | ⲑⲏⲛⲓ
C811 | ⲑⲁⲛⲛⲟ
C816 | ⲑⲱⲣϣ
C818 | ⲑⲟⲩⲑⲟⲩ
C819 | ⲑⲟⲩⲉⲗⲟ
C819 | ⲧⲟⲩⲗⲟ
C822 | ⲑⲟϥⲧⲉϥ
C823 | ⲑⲟϩ
C956 | ⲗⲁ
C956 | ⲣⲁ
C956 | ⲣⲁ
{{{
C91 | CF327 | ⲁⲙⲟⲛⲓ
C91 | CF328 | ⲁⲙⲟⲛⲓ
C126 | CF453 | ⲁⲛⲁⲓ
C126 | CF454 | ⲁⲛⲁⲓ
C126 | CF455 | ⲁⲛⲁⲓ
C126 | CF456 | ⲁⲛⲉⲓ
C216 | CF859 | ⲁⲥⲁⲓ
C216 | CF860 | ⲁⲥⲁⲓ
C216 | CF861 | ⲁⲥⲁⲓ
C216 | CF862 | ⲁⲥⲓⲁⲓ
C216 | CF863 | ⲉⲥⲓⲉⲉⲓ
C216 | CF864 | ⲁⲥⲓⲉ
C216 | CF865 | ⲉⲥⲓⲉ
C216 | CF866 | ⲁⲥⲉⲓⲧⲉ
C216 | CF867 | ⲉⲥⲉⲓⲧⲉ
C335 | CF1458 | ⲃⲉⲃⲟⲩ
C370 | CF1574 | ⲃⲱⲕ
C370 | CF1575 | ⲃⲱⲕ
C370 | CF1576 | ⲃⲱⲕ
C370 | CF1577 | ⲃⲱⲕ
C370 | CF1578 | ⲃⲱⲕ
C370 | CF1579 | ϥⲱⲕ
C370 | CF1580 | ⲃⲱⲹ
C395 | CF1643 | ⲃⲱⲕⲉ
C395 | CF1644 | ⲃⲱⲕⲉ
C444 | CF1848 | ⲃⲱⲗⲕ
C444 | CF1849 | ⲃⲱⲗⲕ
C444 | CF1850 | ⲃⲱⲗⲕ
C503 | CF2004 | ⲃⲱⲱⲣⲉ
C503 | CF2005 | ⲃⲱⲱⲣⲉ
C508 | CF2014 | ⲃⲣⲃⲣ
C508 | CF2015 | ⲃⲣⲃⲣ
C508 | CF2016 | ⲃⲣⲃⲣ
C509 | CF2017 | ⲃⲣⲃⲣ (ⲉⲃⲟⲗ)
C509 | CF2018 | ⲃⲣⲃⲣ (ⲉⲃⲟⲗ)
C509 | CF2019 | ⲃⲣⲃⲣ (ⲉⲃⲟⲗ)
C510 | CF2020 | ⲃⲣⲃⲣ (ⲉϩⲣⲁⲓ)
C510 | CF2021 | ⲃⲣⲃⲣ (ⲉϩⲣⲁⲓ)
C510 | CF2022 | ⲃⲣⲃⲣ (ⲉϩⲣⲁⲓ)
C579 | CF2191 | ⲃⲱϣ
C579 | CF2192 | ⲃⲱϣ
C579 | CF2193 | ⲃⲱϣ
C579 | CF2194 | ⲃⲱϣ
C579 | CF2195 | ⲃⲱϣ
C579 | CF2196 | ⲃⲱϣ
}}}
:EDIT END]]]
I suspect this to be some residue? It would be rather ambitious to distinguish between absolute, (nominal, pronominal and) qualitative, and their dialect variants - although it would be golden of course, and the Marcion software already provides it
I'm undertaking this laborious task just for Thomas, hence why I have suddenly noticed it
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