-
Notifications
You must be signed in to change notification settings - Fork 4
/
1551.raw
241 lines (177 loc) · 13.4 KB
/
1551.raw
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
Homeworlds Online (SDG# 1551)
Started: 2005.11.20, Ended: 2005.12.1
Participants: Lexicon (S), Jesse (N)
Winner: Jesse
1) Jesse: Homeworld G2 B1 Y3
Jesse: Hi, I'll be happy to teach you a bit about Homeworlds.
Jesse: First of all, have you read the tips for new players on the wiki about setting up your homeworld?
2) Lexicon: Homeworld G2 B3 Y3
Lexicon: Yep, I've got that part figured out. I don't know if you're on the mailing list or not, but I've played this game a few times.
Lexicon: The problem is my friends and I didn't read the rules very carefully (or maybe had a different version of the rules?) and had different powers. They were more intuitive, but were succeptable to a 2-3 move kill.
3) Jesse: Build Y1 Jesse
Jesse: Yeah, that's no good. Careful play should at least keep you alive for a long time. Going offensive too soon is usually a big mistake.
4) Lexicon: Build Y1 Lexicon
Jesse: I am on the mailing list, but I don't check that account all that often.
5) Jesse: Discover Y1 Jesse G3 Tree
Jesse: So, what is it that you need help with? What do you find unintuitive about the rules?
6) Lexicon: Trade Y1 R1 Lexicon
Lexicon: If you've played Gnostica, I'm used to thinking like that. Its system is build&grow as opposed to build&trade.
Lexicon: My understanding of these rules is that the only way to get a 2 pip ship is to run out of 1 pip in some color, then build another of that color. This is kind of neat, though I'll need a few games to figure out how long it takes to run out of ships of a given size.
7) Jesse: Build Y1 Jesse
Lexicon: Resource limitations will clearly be more important in this game, and I suspect catastrophies are a more major attack option compared to my version.
Lexicon: I expect this game to run long in terms of number of moves, so having people point out when I make blunders is nice for ramping up to speed. Esp in this format where the game can take a couple weeks to finish and I'm forgetting the strategy I was using early on which only reveals its errors 15 moves in.
Jesse: I like Gnostica a lot. You're right about how to obtain the larger ships, and it does take some getting used to. However, it's a huge part of what makes Homeworlds interesting. Much of the game revolves around manipulating the economy to get the ships you want while depriving your opponent of similar opportunities.
8) Lexicon: Build Y1 Lexicon
Jesse: It is unusual among experienced players to jump into red so early. It simply isn't needed until the opposing forces come into contact with each other (or are seriously threatening to do so).
9) Jesse: Trade Y1 R1 Jesse
Lexicon: I suppose it's premature. I'm antsy about catastrophies, as it's easy to burn a yellow to send another yellow into my system from Tree.
Lexicon: The early game I'm guessing is spent building up some pips for sacrificing later. I'm not sure what to store those as, but too many of one color seems an obvious problem.
10) Lexicon: Trade Y3 G3 Lexicon
Jesse: It's true that I could burn a yellow to send another into your system. For that reason, you certainly don't want to have three yellows in your system, and shouldn't keep two around for long. However, if I did send in a ship, you could defend yourself by swapping your y3 for an r3.
Jesse: The early game is about building up your fleet and gaining control over systems that will let you develop efficiently. That's mostly yellow, green, and blue.
11) Jesse: Build Y1 Jesse
Jesse: That said, it isn't really bad to diversify into red, especially if your opponent follows along as I just did. I just usually wait until either I need to, or it forces my opponent to switch a piece he doesn't want to.
Jesse: G3s are great, but you probably shouldn't have switched your y3 for one at this point. You want a large ship at your homeworld for defense at all times, but you don't generally want your g3s at a green star, because you can't use them much. So it's usual if you start with a blue-green homeworld to wait until you can get a second large ship, and park the g3 at a blue or yellow system.
12) Lexicon: Discover Y1 Lexicon G1 Circle
13) Jesse: Trade Y1 G1 Jesse
Lexicon: I see what you mean, but it seemed like an excellent way to scoop up a stash of larger ships, such as the nearly depleted green pile there.
14) Lexicon: Build G1 Lexicon
Jesse: Yeah, getting into green is a great idea. You want to switch a ship you can afford you move out of your home system, though.
Jesse: ...afford *to* move out...
Lexicon: ohhh, in this version it seems a sacrificed piece disappears immediately. in my version it lasted until the end of the round.
Jesse: I see, you were expecting to be able for instance to sacrifice the g3 and build a new green piece in that system, without another already there. No, it takes two green pieces to make a factory, so it's very dangerous to operate one in a green system.
Jesse: Tell you what, if you want to build a small green now and switch back to a y3, I'll refrain from sending my g1 in to blast you while you do it. That way, you've only lost one turn from the extra trade action. Of course, if you have other plans, that's fine too.
Lexicon: Exactly the problem. Another difference is that my rules didn't require you to own a ship of a given color to build a ship of that color. I'm starting to wonder if we even read the rulebook.
15) Jesse: Discover G1 Jesse Y3 Delta
Jesse: That also makes a huge difference. It's a tricky dance to get the colors you want while trying to make it difficult for your opponent to get into them without taking a disadvantage somewhere else.
16) Lexicon: Trade G3 Y3 Lexicon
17) Jesse: Build R1 Jesse
18) Lexicon: Discover G1 Lexicon Y1 Square
19) Jesse: Build G2 Delta
20) Lexicon: Build G3 Square
21) Jesse: Discover G2 Delta B1 Shrew
22) Lexicon: Sacrifice G3 Square
Build G3 Square
Build Y2 Lexicon
Build R2 Lexicon
Jesse: You can't afford to build that other g3, but you can at least use your greens as a factory, now.
23) Jesse: Build G3 Shrew
Lexicon: Yay! It actually worked! :)
24) Lexicon: Trade R2 B2 Lexicon
25) Jesse: Sacrifice G3 Shrew
Build G3 Shrew
Build Y2 Jesse
Build Y2 Tree
26) Lexicon: Move B2 Lexicon Square
Jesse: I'd like to get into blue, and to spread my reds out, but I'm snapping up these y2s while I can.
27) Jesse: Move R1 Jesse Tree
Lexicon: I can see the benefit of such a plan. The resource scarcity is certainly coming into play now.
28) Lexicon: Move B2 Square Tree
29) Jesse: Attack B2 Tree
Lexicon: Opps. Meant to send him to Delta. Bye bye blue ship.
Jesse: Ouch! Yeah, I really hate when that happens. Too bad undo isn't implemented for Homeworlds yet.
Jesse: I don't like to win on a trivial mistake like that. We could ask Aaron for an undo, but he's got a lot on his plate. Instead, I could just be sporting and send him back to you.
30) Lexicon: Build R2 Lexicon
Lexicon: When I'm doing teaching games I'm usually playing with a new iffy strategy or such to occupy my time. Winning against a new player isn't very satisfying.
31) Jesse: Move B2 Tree Square
Jesse: Granted. It's even less satisfying when it's because of a typo. I'll often experiment against new players, too, or take a starting configuration that I know is inefficient. I otherwise like to exemplify sound strategy, particularly if it is supposed to be a teaching game (beyond just teaching the rules).
Jesse: Besides, there's a tactical lesson in what would happen after you moved the b2 to Delta, which is that I would probably use my factory to build a couple of r2s while simultaneously moving my g3 to Delta for protection. Even if I had done something as seemingly innocuous as moving a yellow to Shrew, there's a trap in it. If you attacked immediately by sacrificing your r1, I'd just move my g3 to your defenseless homeworld, and win shortly thereafter. If you built an r2 first, I could still do the maneuver I mentioned above, or even just move my g3 into Delta. Either way, it's not such good news for you.
Jesse: If you really want to invade Delta, you should do it with your g3. Unless, of course, you have some nefarious plan I don't know about that specifically calls for blue.
Jesse: Anyway, go ahead and take the blue guy back. It's a more interesting game if I have to work to get one for myself.
32) Lexicon: Move R1 Lexicon Square
33) Jesse: Move Y1 Tree Shrew
34) Lexicon: Attack B2N Square
35) Jesse: Trade G3 R3 Shrew
36) Lexicon: Sacrifice G3 Square
Build G3 Square
Build R2 Square
Build B1 Square
Jesse: Since you already have two green ships at your only planet where you can build green, I can make trouble by trading out my g3, planning to build it back next turn.
Lexicon: I feel like I've screwed up by building too many things in a non-attacking position, as there's no way to get everything at your star in one go.
37) Jesse: Build G3 Delta
38) Lexicon: Discover R2 Square B3 Hex
Jesse: You may not have them in attack position right now, but you can move them there over the course of a few turns. It would have helped to take over Delta, since it's a system you could just chuck things in from one at a time for free. That's not always the best way to attack, but it's a nice option to have sometimes. You still have some production to do before you can attack effectively, so try working your way into attack position as you build. You might move a blue to an r3, or a red to a b3.
Jesse: You might also consider attacking my production systems. Tree is the least well protected, obviously.
Jesse: How to actually go about attacking a position defended by larges, particularly once large red ships are in the equation, can be hard to say. I usually take my time building a force and just keep looking for openings to squeeze out some advantage, like with that g3->r3 swap. To attack your homeworld, I might look for a good moment to move my y2 from Tree into an attack position where I could sac my home y2 to blast your yellow ships and force you to recall some ship for defense. You could look to do something similar to me, but you'd have a harder time since you have one less yellow ship.
Jesse: It would be hard for me to blast your system markers, since I don't have any blue yet, and blasting your green would call for a huge sacrifice on my part, so I'm really not sure how I'm going to take you out at this point. You have the advantage of a pretty good shot at blasting my blue, but green will be quite difficult.
Jesse: Is that helpful?
Lexicon: Yeah, that's making sense. It's coming together now that the resources are gone and each players abilities are more determined. Earlier it was too wide open for me to know what to do.
Lexicon: Sorry I've taken so long. Thanksgiving of course, but then I wanted to wait til I had time to sit and give this game a good long stare.
39) Jesse: Discover G1 Delta B2 Shiny
Jesse: That's fine.
40) Lexicon: Sacrifice G3 Square
Build G3 Square
Build R2 Square
Build R3 Hex
41) Jesse: Sacrifice G3 Delta
Build G3 Shiny
Build Y3 Tree
Build R3 Tree
42) Lexicon: Move B1 Square Hex
Lexicon: Neat trick!
43) Jesse: Move Y2 Tree Circle
Jesse: With the stash running out now, things become quite difficult.
Jesse: That maneuver is called "cashing in an investment".
44) Lexicon: Move Y2 Lexicon Square
45) Jesse: Move R3 Tree Circle
46) Lexicon: Move Y1 Circle Hex
47) Jesse: Move Y2 Jesse Tree
48) Lexicon: Sacrifice G3 Square
Build G3 Square
Build B2 Square
Build B3 Hex
Jesse: So, the idea now is to dance around and try to undermine each others' positions.
49) Jesse: Sacrifice Y3 Tree
Move Y2 Tree Square
Move Y2 Circle Hex
Move Y2 Hex Square
Catastrophe Square Y
Jesse: I was hoping to do this more cheaply, but I think I'm going to have to go ahead and remove Square before you can take out my factory.
50) Lexicon: Sacrifice B3 Hex
Trade R3 G3 Hex
Trade B1 G1 Hex
Pass
Jesse: Well, things look a little different all of a sudden, don't they?
Lexicon: I was wondering when it would come to that. That was quite the nuke you sent there.
51) Jesse: Trade G3 Y3 Shiny
Lexicon: Well, I didn't get to nuke your homeworld, but that buildup of blue still saved my butt.
52) Lexicon: Sacrifice G3 Hex
Build G3 Hex
Build Y1 Lexicon
Build Y2 Hex
53) Jesse: Build G3 Shiny
54) Lexicon: Move G1 Hex Shiny
55) Jesse: Sacrifice G3 Shiny
Build G3 Shrew
Build Y2 Shiny
Build Y2 Shrew
56) Lexicon: Trade Y1 B1 Lexicon
57) Jesse: Move Y2 Shiny Circle
Jesse: Not bad, but I think you're in trouble...
58) Lexicon: Sacrifice Y1 Hex
Move G1 Shiny Hex
Lexicon: Oh, I'm definitly in trouble.
59) Jesse: Sacrifice Y3 Shiny
Move Y1 Shrew Lexicon
Move Y2 Shrew Lexicon
Move Y2 Circle Lexicon
Catastrophe Lexicon Y
Jesse: Unless you specifically wanted to remove that y1, you should know that you could also have moved the g1 to Hex by sacrificing the g1 and rebuilding it.
60) Lexicon: Sacrifice Y2 Hex
Move G3 Hex Circle
Move G3 Circle Lexicon
61) Jesse: Sacrifice Y3 Jesse
Move G2 Shrew Lexicon
Move G3 Shrew Lexicon
Move R3 Circle Lexicon
Catastrophe Lexicon G
Lexicon: Things are not looking good for our hero. (my hero at least).
62) Lexicon: Trade G1 Y1 Hex
Jesse: Not good, no. After that latest blast, I'll be taking the last of your homeworld defenders next turn.
63) Jesse: Sacrifice R3 Shrew
Attack R2 Lexicon
Attack B1 Lexicon
Pass
Jesse: Thanks, and I hope the game and the discussion have been instructive.
Lexicon: sigh. I think it's time.
Lexicon: Yeah, I understand it way better now. I was pretty uninterested in it before this game, but I thought I'd try it out. It was fun! Thanks!