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First pass at Perl 6 -> Raku #2951
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Moreover, here's an unfiltered list of things to check. Anything that talks about “Perl” in general should now use “Raku” instead. Any references to perl5 should be moved to 5to6 docs (this was discussed long time ago). ack 'Perl [^6]'
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Oh, yeah, and “5to6” wouldn't mean much (or enough) if the Raku proposal is accepted, so should these be called something else too? Like “perl-to-raku”? |
Embracing the power of names without numbers: perl2raku ;) |
I like that. Just need to make sure there's a redirect so that we're not braking any links outside of our infrastructure. |
Well... links will be broken no matter what.
Just for the record, we shouldn't rely on server redirections to take care
of that. We'll probably be using a static-only pages for Perl 6 doc for
some time to come, maybe for ever.
Also, I don't know how to take care of this, but renaming stuff is probably
not the best way to handle that. I would opt for creating a new site with
the new names, leave this old one as a branch, and insert a notice in the
header of every one redirecting people to the new place, which will be the
one that will eventually remain. After all, people are bound to keep using
their current perl6 infrastructure and be oblivious of the name change for
quite some time.
Eventually we'll create a DNS-level redirect for documentation (and I guess
the rest), but for some time I would leave the two sites coexist.
Thus said, I wouldn't merge this before branching the "old" documentation,
and creating an issue that addresses needed changes. PRs should address
issues, after all.
So I would really prefer this PR to be closed, and open an issue instead to
discuss all issues involved. After all, from here to the eventual merge
there's bound to be many, maybe conflicting, changes.
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And there are conflicts already |
Isn't it, like, a lot of work? Doesn't look very actionable to me, giving the time constraints most people have. |
We just have to change one file, the header.html. People will keep on
looking for Perl 6 for quite some time after changing. We don't want to
lose them.
El mié., 14 ago. 2019 11:39, Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev <
notifications@github.com> escribió:
… I would opt for creating a new site with
the new names, leave this old one as a branch, and insert a notice in the
header of every one redirecting people to the new place
Isn't it, like, *a lot* of work? Doesn't look very actionable to me,
giving the time constraints most people have.
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For things that match Perl with no 6, it's not entirely clear that it's a simple substitution to Raku. Probably needs a human to verify the context. My first pass here was most of the Perl 6 instances that didn't have some sort of historic context; it was my intent that any literal "Perl 6" that was left was intentional, so please also double check those before updating. |
my 2¢: Maintaining 2 copies of the site, one with redirects, is harder than adding more redirects to the .htaccess file, especially since, as you say, we're probably going to be static for some time. I would expect that, when we change the DNS, we have one top level redirect to get people to the new hostname, and then any redirects for page names changed as a result of the rename can be tracked in .htaccess, so that old links still work. We can add the redirects in this branch as we rename the pod6 files. |
Hi,
El mié., 14 ago. 2019 a las 17:06, Will Coleda (<notifications@github.com>)
escribió:
my 2¢: Maintaining 2 copies of the site, one with redirects, is harder
than adding more redirects to the .htaccess file, especially since, as you
say, we're probably going to be static for some time.
I'm not talking about redirects, but links either to the general site or to
the equivalent page. That's a straightforward transformation except in the
cases the URL involves perl6. Again, people are going to keep searching
"strings in perl 6" for quite some time. The equivalent raku page is not
going to be returned by that search query. We can have them both for an
agreed period of time (6 months, for instance) or until the domains expire
(which might be never).
I would expect that, when we change the DNS, we have one top level
redirect to get people to the new hostname, and then any redirects for page
names changed as a result of the rename can be tracked in .htaccess, so
that old links still work.
Static pages needn't include .htaccess, and I wouldn't want to have that
kind of URL-generating hacks in the new site. It's caused enough headaches
up to now.
So, two points here:
1. A PR is not the place to discuss this, but the problem-solving repo.
2. We will need for the sake of search engines to keep both set of pages,
with links from perl6 to raku, for a period of time. And then we'll need
some SEO hacks so that new pages will keep being returned when people
search for Perl 6 (which they will). Part of that SEO hack will be to point
from the old pages to the new ones, but we'll need a bit more, I guess.
|
Please feel free to create an issue. I understand the problem you're trying to fix about people searching for the literal string "strings in perl6". But keeping two sites live doesn't really help this, as it will confuse the users and the search engines, and whenever we shut it down, the bandaid that was in place is not replaced. And if the old site is somehow manually redirecting to the new site, that's more work to maintain. If it's automatically doing it (but at the page level), then we have a whole site that can be replaced with a single host level redirect (see below). I don't understand the problem you're seeing with .htaccess (which we are already using on the existing live site). The issue I'm discussing is not about URL generation, it's about preserving the old URL paths. You don't need to keep both sets of pages if you have the redirects in place so that hitting the old page brings you to the new page. With a redirect at the top level so that anything at the old hostname goes to the new hostname, and then something to redirect any use of the old path to the new path, you cover any old URLS hitting the newly renamed pages on the new hostname. So, on the old site, have a redirect that matches anything with the old hostname to the same path at the new hostname (this can be done inside an .htaccess controlled in the site, or via one that is part of the deployment to the original site.); say "https://doc.perl6.org/old-5-to-6-url" - this would then get redirected to "https://doc.raku.org/old-5-to-6-url", which would then get redirected to .../new-5-raku-url" - we'd change any internal references to the correct relative URL, but any old URLS would continue to work. |
El mié., 14 ago. 2019 a las 18:57, Will Coleda (<notifications@github.com>)
escribió:
Please feel free to create an issue.
I understand the problem you're trying to fix about people searching for
the literal string "strings in perl6". But keeping two sites live doesn't
really help this, as it will confuse the users and the search engines, and
whenever we shut it down, the bandaid that was in place is not replaced.
And if the old site is somehow manually redirecting to the new site, that's
more work to maintain. If it's *automatically* doing it (but at the page
level), then we have a whole site that can be replaced with a single host
level redirect (see below).
I don't intend to do that forever, just for some time. I don't have a big
problem with having to work a bit more.
I don't understand the problem you're seeing with .htaccess (which we are
already using on the existing live site). The issue I'm discussing is not
about URL generation, it's about preserving the old URL paths.
No, we're no longer using it, since we moved it to the interim
infrastructure. And I'm not sure it really worked before that.
You don't need to keep both sets of pages if you have the redirects in
place so that hitting the old page brings you to the new page. With a
redirect at the top level so that anything at the old hostname goes to the
new hostname, and then something to redirect any use of the old path to the
new path, you cover any old URLS hitting the newly renamed pages on the new
hostname.
Then what happens is that the Google crawler gets a page that was indexed
under "perl6" with something that has eliminated any mention to perl 6:
boom, it gets demoted to last in the query, not only for the old query
terms, but the new query terms. That's not good for the documentation, and
it's the situation I'm trying to prevent here.
On the other hand, if we create clear path with both pages coexisting at
the same time, there will be some time for the new pages to pick up SEO
juice, and we can eventually just bring down the old site (or use
redirections, it does not really matter at that point in time) with no
penalization by search engines.
|
It did work, it needs to be fixed. Breaking links is not cool. |
regarding seo juice: if we have almost-the-same pages under two different URLs, I believe we need to say in the header (of both) which one is the "canonical" and that the two are equivalent, or get punished for link farming. I guess you know better than I how to do that, if not then I can find out... |
It feels to me we're getting ahead of ourselves here. There hasn't been an official decision yet about a rename. And in the end, Larry could still put a stop to it. Which would have consequences, but still. Could we halt work on this until after the SPW (this weekend)? |
El mié., 14 ago. 2019 a las 19:28, Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev (<
notifications@github.com>) escribió:
No, we're no longer using it, since we moved it to the interim
infrastructure. And I'm not sure it really worked before that.
It did work, it needs to be fixed. Breaking links is not cool.
It really didn't work very well. Some directives just didn't fire for some
reason, and I suspect it's been not working for a really long time. The
server that it's actually been serving page for some time has been a Mojo
server, which does not really understand .htaccess. It needs nginx in
front, which if I remember correctly was the way it was done in the
previous one, but I'm not sure it really worked, since .htaccess probably
includes many Apache-specific directives.
Also, since it's been moved to the interim infrastructure there have been
zero reports of broken links. Internal broken links have been fixed.
The big picture is: we need to generate URLs in a single place, and make
them not depend on the infrastructure. If we need to change URLs at another
level, something is not really working, so we need to fix that, not patch
it at another level.
That's, however, another issue. If we opt for redirection we'll obviously
need to include a .htaccess file eventually.
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El mié., 14 ago. 2019 a las 19:40, JJ Merelo (<jjmerelo@gmail.com>)
escribió:
El mié., 14 ago. 2019 a las 19:28, Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev (<
***@***.***>) escribió:
> No, we're no longer using it, since we moved it to the interim
> infrastructure. And I'm not sure it really worked before that.
>
> It did work, it needs to be fixed. Breaking links is not cool.
>
It really didn't work very well. Some directives just didn't fire for some
reason, and I suspect it's been not working for a really long time. The
server that it's actually been serving page for some time has been a Mojo
server, which does not really understand .htaccess. It needs nginx in
front, which if I remember correctly was the way it was done in the
previous one, but I'm not sure it really worked, since .htaccess probably
includes many Apache-specific directives.
On this note, I changed several directives and they didn't really work. So
that's why I say it didn't really work.
|
@lizmat 👍 |
See how much enthusiasm you generated? :) |
I'm closing this now, since it's conflicting, but also we prefer things to be done step by step and as indicated in the issue #3046 |
Providing a target for for the Raku discussion going on at
Raku/problem-solving#81
Should not be merged until that issue has a clear resolution.
Only targeted the places in text where Perl 6 could safely be changed; if it's a historical quote, or required some context, made minimal edits.
Needs to also address instances of the executable name.
Didn't change the nbsp test because "Perl 6" still appears in some places (just not many).
Please feel free to keep this branch up to date with rebases, and with more commits.