Request - ReactiveCocoa chat room

[bobspryn]

Would like to be able to congregate with others using and learning ReactiveCocoa. Of course I could just join/create the channel on freenode if you guys don't want to do a sort of 'official' room.

[anaisbetts]

I know the site is usually only used by .NET people, but if you want a non-ancient, free chat room, https://jabbr.net is pretty decent, especially now that it added notifications

[joshaber]

I'm of two minds about this:

👍

• I could see it being useful to create a better community around RAC. We already have a nice group of people that answer issues, StackOverflow questions, etc. Maybe an IRC room would help create a larger, more cohesive group of core users.
• The immediacy of IRC could be helpful for beginners.

👎

• Issues/SO are great because they create an accessible, searchable catalog of questions and answers.
• It's Yet Another Thing to monitor. It takes a lot of time and work to run an open source project. I'm not sure that having an IRC room would help that.

[bobspryn]

I'm not even sure it needs to be officially monitored. Just an easy place for a couple people to chat about RC related topics if they want. Right now the only setting for somewhat immediate conversations is twitter. I think you guys could abstain from answering there so what's left of your time doesn't get used up.

[jspahrsummers]

I very much prefer issues and Stack Overflow for questions and general discussion. Immediacy isn't worth the cost of low visibility/searchability.

[kastiglione]

Hmm, this is tough. I really like the 👍 points that @joshaber made. What if the chat was archived and searchable on a public site (there are sites that do this IRC, if I'm not mistaken)? What if the mandate was to keep in-chat help limited to the same kind of help you could share by twitter, and anything bigger should go to GH or SO? Of course, that can't actually be controlled…

Coming from the other direction, if IRC isn't the right medium, are there any other ideas that have been floated that could aid in catalyzing the community? One that I liked was RACipes, which could be a community moderated "best of" from GH issues, gists, SO, etc.

[anaisbetts]

I very much prefer issues and Stack Overflow for questions and general discussion.

[jspahrsummers]

Here's the thing: right now, there's a certain stigma associated with filing issues on a highly-visible public project. Many projects are very anti-beginner, and anti-Q&A, in their issues.

I absolutely hate that mentality.

I want the repo to be a place where beginners feel comfortable, and where anyone from the RAC community can come to collaborate. It should also be the useful source of information. Adding another medium would dilute these goals.

What if the mandate was to keep in-chat help limited to the same kind of help you could share by twitter

Twitter is actually a very similar problem here, and I'd love to move more of those conversations into issues, because:

• Twitter conversations are much harder to follow and find later.
• Twitter is often more synchronous than a GitHub issue, and that sucks.
• Sometimes, just the very act of phrasing a question for an issue will end up revealing the answer.

[kastiglione]

Well, I'm sold. I particularly like:

Sometimes, just the very act of phrasing a question for an issue will end up revealing the answer.

[bobspryn]

To me there's two main benefits of IRC.

1. Real-time discussions. There's a certain benefit from being able to collaborate in real-time with peers. You throw out certain ideas or questions that you might feel shy about stamping into the concrete memory of SO or Github. Those can help lead to an actual resolution. There's also the whole idea of context-switching. If I'm able to have a conversation with someone, and respond to their answer to my question immediately with a follow-up, they might be more inclined to answer, or still have their mind wrapped around the details of the question.

2. Stupid small questions. I would be willing to say that I am gun-shy about asking tiny, probably completely obvious questions. I would rather struggle with it, and spend time searching for it, then post my potentially ridiculous question to github or SO. For example, see Why is bufferWithTime evaluated lazily? #884. A fundamentally obvious question, but I was fuzzy on the concept for a moment. Once I realized how obvious it was, I felt a little lame having posted that question. But the reason I asked it there is I try not to bug people like @jspahrsummers and @joshaber on twitter, and make them feel like they need to answer me there.

As an aside, I feel like SO is a lot better place for questions, namely because that's where most programmers will look first for answers to their question. I never really have seen github issues used in this manner, so I by default would filter out those entries when browsing google results. But I do see the benefit of having more of a community feel here. Seeing the same names and faces. Torn on that one.

[kastiglione]

I would rather struggle with it, and spend time searching for it, than post my potentially ridiculous question to github or SO. For example, see #884. A fundamentally obvious question, but I was fuzzy on the concept for a moment. Once I realized how obvious it was, I felt a little lame having posted that question.

On the flip side, it's a hell of a good way to really learn RAC, is it not?

[bobspryn]

I don't disagree. That's why I do a lot of that in the first place. But there's still points where it would be great to go. "From what I can tell, x. Is that correct?" Yes/No

[jspahrsummers]

You throw out certain ideas or questions that you might feel shy about stamping into the concrete memory of SO or Github. Those can help lead to an actual resolution.

Shouldn't the actual resolution be stamped into memory, though? Others may have the same questions/confusion, so being able to see previous discussions is hugely valuable.

Once I realized how obvious it was, I felt a little lame having posted that question.

That's okay! The above applies to this too — others might have the same "obvious" question, so having it public makes it easy for others to follow along with. Nothing to be embarrassed about.

I feel like SO is a lot better place for questions, namely because that's where most programmers will look first for answers to their question.

Stack Overflow is okay — better than Twitter and chat, certainly — but:

• There's no way for us to get notified about new RAC questions without visiting the site.
• Wrong answers get accepted occasionally, and it's hard for us to counteract that even when we have better information (which we often do, as contributors to the framework).
• Relatedly, SO hosts a lot of expert beginners, who may answer RAC questions based on an incomplete or incorrect understanding of the framework. Certainly, I have nothing against missing knowledge like that (it's just a part of learning), but it's tricky when the blind start leading the blind.

[bobspryn]

Fair enough on all accounts.

[kastiglione]

There's no way for us to get notified about new RAC questions without visiting the site.

@jspahrsummers I get emails with questions tagged reactive-cocoa using this: http://stackexchange.com/filters

[jspahrsummers]

@kastiglione Ah, cool. I'll replace that point with "shitty UI."

[kastiglione]

I even had to hunt to find that link. I knew it existed, but it's buried.

[kastiglione]

@sprynmr GitHub for Mac does realtime OS X notifications, so willing users could use that + the website for an approximation of realtime discussion.

[bobspryn]

Interesting. I suppose the website could even do push now with Mavericks.

[jspahrsummers]

RxUI created a chat room on Slack for anyone to join: reactiveui/ReactiveUI#622

It might be worth reconsidering this, since Slack supports transcripts (which was one of the problems we had with IRC).

/cc @ReactiveCocoa/reactivecocoa @paulcbetts

[anaisbetts]

Hey guys - if anyone is interested, kick paul@paulbetts.org an Email with the address you want me to invite you under

[jspahrsummers]

Anyone interested in joining our new chat room can also leave a comment here, and one of the RAC collaborators can invite you.

We'll treat this like a trial run. If it's too obnoxious or always silent, we don't have to keep using it.

[nikolaykasyanov]

count me in!

[ashfurrow]

YESSS.

[jlawton]

I'd like in!

[epatey]

yes please. eric at patey.com

[talesp]

Anyone can enter? tales at newtlabs.com

[anaisbetts]

Anyone can enter?

Only people who read my previous instructions :)

[m4c1ek]

Hi! Could I also get an invite? :) maciej.walczynski [at] gmail.com

[ajacquelin]

Hi, could I join the room plz ?
alexis at omts.fr
Thx!

[zlszk]

zlszkmf@163.com thanks

[oks]

oksana@anoda.mobi, 👍 ,thanks)

[markuspersson]

I would also like an invite: persson at ustwo.com
Thanks :)!

[isair]

baris.sencan@me.com

[jozsef-vesza]

jozsef.vesza@outlook.com
Thanks!

[rnystrom]

Yes please! rnystrom@whoisryannystrom.com

[kasrak]

👍 me@kasrak.com

[raheelahmad]

ahmad.raheel@gmail.com 🙇

[gvieira]

guilherme@flipstudio.net 👍

[remmah]

Requesting invite: [redacted on 10 December 2018 as per requested]
Thanks!

[ristkof]

requesting invite: kristof@coin-c.com

[mcilvena]

troy.mcilvena@gmail.com

Cheers!

[cseeger]

me too!

chad at feltlabs dot com

[joelklabo]

Me too please,

joelklabo at gmail com

[YasKuraishi]

me too pls. kuraishi [at] gmail [dot] com

Cheers...

[endocrimes]

Oh, awesome, would love an invite! (dan@tomlinson.io)

[davisonstudios]

please add me! stuart.davison @ trailerpark.com

[benmos]

could I get an invite too please? ben@benmoseley.net

[ashokgelal]

ashokgelal at gmail dot com

Thank you!

[mergesort]

joe@fabisevi.ch please. :)

[joanromano]

joanromano@gmail.com thanks!

[jstallings]

jdstallings at gmail dot com. Thanks!

[Elshad]

y_elshad at yahoo dot com
thanks )

[rowland-smith]

rowland at river2sea dot org

thanks

[jspahrsummers]

Everyone so far has been invited.

However, since we're still seeing relatively little activity in the chatroom, and this thread requires a lot of manual effort for me to keep up with, I'm going to lock this issue and stop inviting absolutely everyone.

If you have specifically something to discuss in our chat room, please reach out to me on Twitter or via email, and I'd be happy to still provide an invitation.