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Mention Montenegro's "old royal capital" #205
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As mentioned in #207,
I'd rather put both capitals in the Capital field as follows:
I'd change all multiple capitals in the deck to follow this rule, but maybe we should discuss it in #207. =) |
Sorry, but Montenegro does not have multiple capitals. It has one: the official, constitutional capital. Secondary/historical capitals are provided for informational purposes only and cannot be given the same prominence as primary capitals. A few reasons come to mind:
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Well, technically both of them are in the constitution as a kind of capitals, in the same section and with the same importance (as far as I can understand the constitution using a translator), and both of them are listed in the (Spanish) Wikipedia infobox.
Maybe in this case, this is true, but there are other cases where all multiple capitals have the same importance officially, as for South Africa. I know this issue is about Montenegro, but as these arguments apply to others, I want to answer in general. =)
It is completely true that it's already quite large and difficult, but so is reality. Right now, regions with multiple capitals are listed as having only one.
Not sure about this. As a counter argument, right now there is no card asking where is Cape Town, for example. Also, if all capitals are listed in the capital field, you can memorize one of them and skip the others in both Country-Capital and Capital-Country cards. However, if only one is shown in Capital-Country cards, you lose an opportunity to learn all of them at the same time. |
Wouldn't you say the word Either way, our guideline is to follow Wikipedia's infobox, so for Montenegro, since the old capital is not listed in the English infobox, it doesn't have its place in the Capital field in the English deck.
You could have led with that! 😄 Since the Spanish infobox doesn't give levels of importance to the two capitals, then I have no objection putting them both in the Capital field, like we do for the Canary Islands and now for South Africa (see my last comment in #207). So let's go for ... Although perhaps it should be |
So had I, until the topic of multiple capitals came up, and was ashamed to bring it up... I'm not sure whether a comma would help, though — I could easily imagine myself thinking that it's a way of specifying the location (something like, "Washington, D.C.") — so perhaps adding a Capital info, containing something like:
might be useful. I don't have a strong opinion on whether to use a comma or an "and" in the "capital" field itself. I think that having an "and" looks slightly nicer when listing two capitals, but for three capitals, having, say
This brings up the question of whether we should, ideally (implementation issues aside...), have multiple Capital-Country cards, for each of the multiple capitals (so that the learner could learn the associations Cape Town - South Africa, Pretoria - South Africa and Bloemfontein - South Africa separately, rather than just learning Three capitals - South Africa). Obviously, doing this would be extremely tricky and probably overkill. (According to Supermemo's "Twenty rules of formulating knowledge" learning a set of three items is acceptable, so multiple Country-Capital cards would probably not be necessary, even in the ideal case.) |
Yeah, the capital info for the Canary Islands looks great! I'll open an issue for it.
Unfortunately, I don't believe Anki allows this. |
😱 How could I have missed that? Sorry, you are right, then.
You already convinced me! Now I don't want both in capital fields in Spanish either. 😂 Jokes aside, I don't really mind, let's follow Wikipedia infobox and stop discussing here.
Alright, I'll do it soon.
When I saw the card the first time, I had no doubt this would happen to someone. 😂
I agree. |
GermanIn none of the German Wikipedia articles on Montenegro, Podgorica or Cetinje have I found any mention of Cetinje's constitutional status as the Old Royal Capital, (as opposed to the fact that it once was the capital), and they only mention that the president resides there. If the Germans (apparently) don't care about this, then arguably neither should we. I think that the respective Norwegian articles also don't mention Cetinje's special status, but I'm far less sure. "Capital info" suggestionsPodgorica is the capital; Cetinje is designated as the Old Royal Capital. @Erim24 ES: Podgorica es la capital principal; Cetiña tiene el estatus de Antigua Capital Real. FR: Podgoria est la capitale, pendant que Cetinje détient le titre de «capitale du trône». @Vages |
Shouldn't the description start like "While Podgorica…" as other similar capital info fields? Other than that, I agree with you. =) |
It may be easier to not try to use "Old Royal Capital" as is, and instead turn the sentence into more of a general knowledge statement. For instance, we could drop the capital letters: "old royal capital", or use the term "historical and cultural capital". I also quite like the term "honorary capital", which is used on the English page for Cetinje. |
Also, I don't think Podgorica should be mentioned in the capital info in English, French, German and Norwegian. In Spanish, I think it makes sense to use the formulation "While Podgorica..." |
That would make sense — thanks!
"Honorary capital" sounds great! I think "historical and cultural capital" isn't ideal since it doesn't reflect the "official" status of Cetinje — there are many cases where another city is a historical capital, but none others (AFAIK) where this is constitutionally recognised. I think that in this case we could skip the "While Podgorica is the capital" part, since unlike in cases where the government is based elsewhere, it wouldn't be unclear that Cetinje isn't the actual capital: Cetinje is an honorary capital. (In German and Norwegian, my suggestions only mention the seat of the president, since Cetinje's special status didn't seem to be mentioned on the respective Wikipedias, so if we keep that, I think we should still have the "While Podgorica" part. Alternatively, we could just have all the versions saying that Cetinje is an honorary capital.) |
The Norwegian translation looks good to me. |
Just catching up with this, sorry. @aplaice, in #229, you wrote:
To me, the fact that one version of Wikipedia doesn't mention something at all doesn't mean that this thing isn't "notable" for readers of that version. When the infobox in Spanish Wikipedia says that Montenegro has two capitals, it contradicts the other Wikipedias, but when German and Norwegian Wikipedia don't mention Cetinje's status of "Old Royal Capital", they don't contradict the others; they just provide less information. In other words, I wouldn't give missing information the same importance as contradictory information. So in this case, I'd argue that it's not worth overcomplicating things and that we should just use the term "honorary capital" in all languages:
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Fair enough, that does simplify things significantly! I'm not sure about |
Actually, on second thoughts, since we're planning on using
or even just (since they're both mentioned in the main "Capital" field):
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Yeah, I wasn't sure, but I think you're right. @josealberto4444 any preference? |
Fix anki-geo#205. I've kept the Norwegian (which had already mentioned Cetinje in its "Capital info") unchanged, for the time being.
Fix anki-geo#205. I've kept the Norwegian (which had already mentioned Cetinje in its "Capital info") unchanged, for the time being.
I think it's perfect in the version that was merged. =) |
Mention Cetinje, the "Old Royal Capital" of Montengro, in the Capital info field. See #161 (comment) (item no 8).
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