Add get support page #577
Add get support page #577
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@jbonofre @rmannibucau did you actually review this PR? Part of it is copy+pasted with no changes from the Apache Camel docs. I would hope that anyone who actually looked at the diff would have spotted that. |
support.html
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| Apache Camel is a widely used project. As such, several companies have built products and services around Camel. | ||
| This page is dedicated to providing descriptions of those offerings and links to more information. | ||
| Companies are definitely encouraged to update this page directly or send a mail to the Camel PMC with a description | ||
| of your offerings, and we can update the page. The products and services listed on this page are provided for | ||
| information use only to our users. The Camel PMC does not endorse or recommend any of the products or services | ||
| on this page. See below for information about what is appropriate to add to the page. |
support.html
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| <h3>Commercial support</h3> | ||
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| Apache Camel is a widely used project. As such, several companies have built products and services around Camel. |
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@C0urante good catch! Sorry for the copy/paste error, it's ok now. |
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All good now
side note FTR (unrelated to this PR but since I hit it for each review, the docker command does not work on a docker setup not outdated and) launch command needs to be replaced with docker run --security-opt seccomp:unconfined --rm --name mypreview -p 8080:80 -v "$PWD":/usr/local/apache2/htdocs/:z kafka-site-preview)
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| <li><a href="https://www.yupiik.com" target="_blank">Yupiik</a> contributes and commits to many Apache projects. Provides consulting, training and support |
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It seems very weird to me to add this page with only a single commercial support offering listed. Honestly it feels a bit inappropriate to use the AK site to list any commercial offerings at all, but I'm not sure what the official policy is there. If we do include a commercial support section then imo we should consider reaching out to some of the other major companies offering Kafka support to ask if they would like to be included so that we provide a more complete picture of the available options. Otherwise it feels like we (the Apache Kafka project) are advocating for a particular commercial offering, which we definitely are not and should not.
I still think the first part of this page could be very valuable (with the above suggestions) and would recommend splitting this PR up so that we can merge the community support section while discussing the suitability of the commercial support section
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An alternative to reaching out (which feels like the opposite) is to add an edit link (github) and encourage people to pr to add themselves.
Will make it more open and less closed to a single company so cna be a trade off maybe.
Wdyt?
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I added the first company because I don't know the other and like it's mention in the text, company are encouraged to add themselves by providing a PR. At the beginning we need to start with one company but if people want to add other companies in this PR with comments, I can add them to start with more than one before merging.
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@ableegoldman do you think we can start a thread on the mailing list to ask which company want to be add in the commercial list support?
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I think you should start a discussion thread to ask if we "should" have the "Commercial support" section first. I agree with @ableegoldman that it's weird the Apache Kafka site contains any commercial content.
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For one rational (coming from other ASF projects): asking for help always require some sort of registration and when a company just want support (often SLA related or expertise related) this is perceived as negative so several ASF projects (most of the ones able to run as standalone, ie not libs) started to add such a page or at least point to a page enabling to find out the info.
hope it helps
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| <li><a href="https://www.yupiik.com" target="_blank">Yupiik</a> contributes and commits to many Apache projects. Provides consulting, training and support |
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I think you should start a discussion thread to ask if we "should" have the "Commercial support" section first. I agree with @ableegoldman that it's weird the Apache Kafka site contains any commercial content.
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@showuon There is a lot of ASF projects that provide a page with community support, it help the adoption and the growth of the project because the users need commercial support for production (SLAs), consulting or training. So if some company are listed in the project website it can be very useful for them to find support. You can check Camel, ActiveMQ, Karaf websites for example. |
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You have to admit this PR raised quite a few red flags! First it's directly copied from Camel without replacing mentions to Kafka. Then within minutes it's approved by 2 other ASF members clearly without looking at the diff. Finally it's adding your company as the sole provider for commercial support. A more open approach would have been to reach out the Kafka community on the dev or users lists and discuss a nice way to build such a page. I tend to agree that a page listing commercial offerings is helpful but I'm sure you understand why we can't merge the PR as is. |
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@mimaison well I wouldn't say red flags but I fully understand the surprise on kafka side if it was never discussed on/offline first - we had the same debate on TomEE side years ago.
To give an example of the "rationale behind" please have a look to apache/superset#8852 issue. An important point to take into consideration is that several products - and I think Kafka is exactly there - wouldn't live without external support (it is true for most broker or server) so it is guaranteeing its community and helping its user base to do this kind of page - and trust me, ~5 years ago I didn't understand that as well as today so I say it very humbly. So overall, due to kafka adoption it can only be good to get such a page IMHO but I agree that if you feel it is not straight forward and it must be discussed more deeply cause Kafka wants to write its own content, a thread sounds the way to move it forward and a core commiter should then probably take the leadership on that "doc" track and this pr marked as pending while this work is done. |
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As I said, I think a page listing commercial offerings is useful. I was just commenting on the approach you took. I don't think we necessarily need a committer to build this page (obviously a committer will have to review the PR before merging). If you want you can start the discussion. |
Hi @mimaison, I admitted that I made a mistake about copy/paste from Camel website and I fixed it. About adding my company, as I explained in other comments, it's just a starting point to list companies. I cannot add the others for trademark purpose because I'm not owning them but everybody can add their company as explain in the text or I'm open to do it if people ask me in this PR. About the approach, I already start a thread on the mailing list about this topic before doing a proposal, here the link to thread: Sorry, it was last year, so may be I would have to resend it again? |
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@mimaison I replied to the original thread on the mailing list to rebirth the discussion. |
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@mimaison I take the blame on me: I did mistakes with the bright side of things.
I share your points, but I would not be too sharp. @fpapon is just trying to help. I would add more companies/providers in this page as part of this PR. I think we can say that it's for the good of the Kafka community and diversity. I'm happy to chat with you about that on Slack or on a call if you want. |
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No worries, there's no need to blame anybody for such a small issue. The initiative to add this page is, in my opinion, good and contributions are always welcome. It's just the initial content and quick approvals that looked concerning. @fpapon As pointed by several committers there are a few issues with the current content but we should be able to agree on what to do and update this PR accordingly. I wonder if the first step would be to decide whether we want this page on the website. It's probably best to email the dev to get some agreement, or at least allow people to raise objections and then start gathering content. |
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@mimaison ok thanks for your feeedbacks. I will update the PR according to the comments of the people and then resend an email to the mailing for the proposal and see how the community react on it. |
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@ableegoldman I pushed some changes, feel free to review/comment :) |
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As the Apache Kafka PMC rejeted this proposal on the mailing list, I'm closing this PR. |
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@fpapon I guess you mean Kafka PMC :) Not Karaf :) |
Ah yes, sorry, split brain :) |
Proposal to add a
get supportpage to describe how community and commercial support is working, like we have in many other Apache projects.