AGP 5: Migration to Open Source Messaging Platform #7
Comments
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I change my vote to Riot.im (but if more people want RocketChat that works too). |
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👍 Slack is unsustainable. |
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@Souptacular @5chdn we used Riot internally for a while. What are the reasons that make you like it for a community? For me, it lacks things such as:
Riot's bridging capabilities are awesome and the fact that you can message anyone in any Matrix server makes me really like it, but the client lacks some features that are very important for a community |
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Riot supports mentions, and pinned messages. Can't comment on the other points. |
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Last time I checked mentions only highlighted the username, with no notification or unread messages inbox whatsoever. Do you know if they did change that? |
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Yes 👍 slack is annoying by times, also a real p2p solution would be interesting, maybe https://github.com/ssbc? (secure scuttlebutt) |
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@Souptacular Do you see any projects that you represent supporting this proposal? |
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Let's do this! |
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I've been using Rocket chat for several projects. It works pretty well, and the fact that the team recently got funding should help with future features. |
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Re: Rocket.Chat. Of all of the chat apps I use, it has the most problems. The desktop app is really laggy when typing a message more than one line long (for no apparent reason). The mobile app is amazingly slow to open, and at this point I avoid responding to Rocket messages on mobile because it is just too much of a pain (whereas Slack I'll hold entire conversations from mobile). I will also randomly get pop-ups on Windows from Rocket.Chat desktop app asking me to approve some random SSL certificate. Re: Riot.im. I only have one group I'm part of with Riot but at a glance it is sorely lacking in features as others have mentioned. No ability to mention (I don't want every instance of my name to be considered an @mention, and I want auto-complete on
This feels way out of scope for Aragon. There are a lot of people already iterating in this space (online chat applications) and I don't believe it would be a good use of funds to spend time rolling your own instead of using an established one. I recognize Slack has some issues that make it less than ideal for open community chat (as seen by the scammers lately) but Slack does have the best feature set of all of the chat apps IMO and I'm not convinced the cons outweigh the pros in this case. Perhaps instead of not using Slack, consider changing the way you do invites so people can't as easily sign-up with bots? Or at least, force the bot authors to build custom bots for targeting Aragon sign-ups (right now since everyone uses the same Heroku app for invites the scammers just need to target that one app). |
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@MicahZoltu I agree with some of your points. Our idea was to join forces with other 5-6 projects and pool some funds to hire someone full-time to work on Rocket.Chat and address our needs, not work on it alone. We could work on some short-term fixes to keep Slack working. But long-term wise, I think trusting the fate of all our communities to a proprietary service developed by a startup that clearly doesn't care about our use case doesn't seem like the best idea. |
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I really like the idea. Cofound.it has 5.000 community members. |
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Nice to see you here @janisakovic! Counting you guys in 👍 |
We're not looking on developing a chat app, it's basically just maintaining the |
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Please don't fork into yet another messaging client. I already have to use Franz to get track of all the different chat systems available... Can't we just support a riot.im server or a rocket chat server? Why a fork? |
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@lpmorin fork would only be necessary to add a set of pre-defined communities on the Electron client. You could still use Franz to join into any community, because they'd be all running their web version of Rocket.Chat |
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Did you guys considered using gitter.im? |
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Gitter does not allow running your own (set of) servers, afaik. |
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I know you want Rocket Chat really bad, but, but, ... https://medium.com/@RiotChat/riot-im-web-0-12-7c4ea84b180a :-)
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We have been considering to move to rocketchat for sometime at 0x and now that the sale is over we wanted to start investigating. So you can count on 0x to help with this. We should bring in projects already using rocketchat. |
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@5chdn Read that today, and it does alleviate some of our previous concerns with the platform. |
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@PhABC sounds great! Will count you in 👍 |
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We have been strongly considering moving CoinFund Slack to Rocket.Chat or another sustainable platform. Let's see what we can come up with! |
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We have a serious collection of projects and we are in charge of 2 or 3 Slack Groups
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Avadhoot here, CMO at Indorse.io. We're a community of 3.3k members on Slack. We ourselves have been thinking to move our community to rocket.chat because of spamming/phishing attacks. This is a fantastic initiative. Please count us in & consider our full support to help make this happen. |
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Hello all, Would it be possible to have some sort of systematic/organized evaluation of the different platforms we could migrate to? We should build a list of pros and cons that we could all contribute to. We should start experimenting with creating a new group on each platform to see how it can be configured, but also joining an existing project on these platforms to see how the dynamic is. I propose something like ; Platform name : We could breakdown the pros and cons in different subgroups, such as security, cost, flexibility, capacity, etc. Perhaps create a markdown file for each platform and we can all do some pull requests? |
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Hi - we have been working on an alternative platform for community chat that is dedicated to the crypto community. We did an initial demo to Aragon a couple of days ago and took on board their feedback. We are essentially building something very like a cross between Telegram and Slack but with extra security controls and features specialized and dedicated to crypto. With features that help pre ICO's as well as post ICO communities. It's still in the early stages of development - most of it is going to be open sourced - but we are also keen to prevent scammers from taking the code and popping up phishing sites of our software. So we are currently taking requirements and can do a demo of what we have so far to anyone that is interested. When we get further along we will open it up for people to test. Essentially we want to build something that the crypto community wants so are open to all suggestions. Of course everyone will choose whichever platform they feel offers the best experience for them but we hope that our platform will be good enough that some of you may consider it, as well as contribute. We realize that our platform is not yet ready and we are still putting together a roadmap and timeline but will keep you posted. |
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Hi phABC thanks for the invite. I work with Kingsley as the UX on our team. We are an agile team and are in very early stages of user interviews and demos. It's our policy to be embarrassed by what we are doing early and often so we can take on feedback and figure out user needs. It was great demoing to Aragon earlier this week because we know we still have a way to go, but the features they want are now on our board. |
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Our team is made up of 4 devs, a creative director and a UX copywriter. We met Gian Bochsler a few weeks back and he is helping with the business side of things and seed investment. So in the meantime while we get our video demo and our website live if anybody is keen to meet us online for a demo of the app we are building that would be great. |
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A good thing to do for everyone that has a PAID team in Slack, is to mention Slack on twitter and say you will quit Slack because of the display name feature and the war against open communities. Until now the only great alternative (UX/UI) I've seen compared to Slack is Discord. Their rights management is incredible. |
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@engelgabriel, I agree with @ara4n. For things like URL filtering and additional moderation tools, I think FOSS is best. Metacert have been pretty agressive with their adoption campaign and I think some projects were left with a bad impression of their productand approach. In addition, their solution isn't as secure as simpler options imo. In general, I think it would be better to disallow DMs by default for now (as long as we can control this in settings) and then later unroll some filtering/monitoring tools for DMs after testing them thoroughly. |
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Announcing Our Migration To An Open Source Messaging Platform Today we are announcing the plan of several Ethereum based projects to migrate to the open source messaging platform Rocket Chat. https://blog.aragon.one/announcing-our-migration-to-an-open-source-messaging-platform-420b25e74284 |
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okay; /me -> ensuring that Matrix provides a fabric which connects both Riot & Rocket.Chat users, so that in the end folks can safely use whatever frontend they prefer :) |
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Just to be clear @ara4n , I think every crypto project loves what you are doing and what the Matrix protocol stands for. I am sure people will be happy to contribute to you and your team so that you can collaborate with Rocket.Chat :). |
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This is awesome to see! You can add Sweetbridge to this list - I'm their social/community manager. A couple weeks ago I finished setting up and customizing our instance of Rocket Chat which you can find at chat.sweetbridge.com |
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That's great @ara4n, I think it's really important that we converge our efforts in order to build with more efficiency a safer messaging environment for our community |
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Parity moved away from Slack to Rocket, and then from Rocket to Riot. I hope you feel comfortable with Rocket Chat, and wish you all the best with that decision, but I can't hide my disappointment, just tried to make you comfortable with skipping the intermediate step completely. 😞 The communication stack and protocol developed by Matrix is just perfect for our needs. All what's lacking is more usable interface, but there are multiple options already in development. And that's what's so sad about Rocket. If you use Rocket, you will ever use Rocket, no alternatives. But if you use Matrix, you can use what ever interface suits you best (Vector/Riot, Matrix web, Nheko, Weechat, ... your frontend here). And since you already said, you wish to contribute to development according to our needs, why not something custom for Matrix or improving Riot? Just my 50 wei. ❤️ |
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I just deleted @paulfwalsh comment from here because I'm tired of someone trying to impose their proprietary solution down our throats. We precisely want to migrate to an open source solution so we don't have to give permissions to random third parties to read everyone's DMs, filter everyone's links, etc. We're in a free market so feel free to try to sell your product as hard as you can and using all possible tactics that you can but this isn't the place for it. On the other hand, we welcome your apologies. In the spirit of openness, giving new chances makes sense. This is just a bad channel for that. |
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Well said @luisivan thank you. |
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Interesting discussion. Fwiw, our obscure crypto project announced a month ago that we are leaving Slack and entering the Matrix. Though the plan for Rocket.Chat and Metacert sounds great too. Matrix just resonates with us more and is a very flexible protocol not just a "chat product". We are now building on Matrix as well. Also, the censorship drama was sad to see. Lighten up, we are all in this together. |
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I wanted to keep this issue open in case other projects were interested in following the plan of moving to an open source alternative or discussing this subject, but this is getting out of hand, won't tolerate being attacked on a completely off-topic issue, which is why I unfortunately must go ahead and close this. This proposal was a huge success, thanks everyone who participated! Looking forward to pooling resources together to ensure a smooth transition. |
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Hey guys, |
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hi @luisivan Regarding your comments "We could work on some short-term fixes to keep Slack working. But long-term wise, I think trusting the fate of all our communities to a proprietary service developed by a startup that clearly doesn't care about our use case doesn't seem like the best idea." And "Our idea was to join forces with other 5-6 projects and pool some funds to hire someone full-time to work on Rocket.Chat and address our needs, not work on it alone. We could work on some short-term fixes to keep Slack working. But long-term wise, I think trusting the fate of all our communities to a proprietary service developed by a startup that clearly doesn't care about our use case doesn't seem like the best idea." This is exactly the use case for why we are building FundRequest. Fundrequest is a platform to incentivise and reward a(n) (open source) community. Our alpha/demo is almost ready and our presale is scheduled for tomorrow. We are moving quickly to support you guys as soon as possible! |
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Hey @timdierckxsens we're looking for a messaging platform, not sure how something that incentivizes open source contributions fits in here |
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@luisivan Yes I am aware. Here you were mentioning that you were working together with 5-6 projects and might pool funds to hire someone full-time to work on rocket.chat to address your needs. In this sense I would say that you should be able to create issues in the Rocket Chat repository and add funds linked directly to your issue/bug/feature request(s). If your issue is a common issue for multiple projects then funds can be added to the same issue to make the reward more worthwhile. A community member supporting Rocket Chat would then rewarded for solving your issue. Saving you the hassle of hiring a dedicated individual and at the same time give back to the community. |
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Oh, gotcha @timdierckxsens |
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+1 to RocketChat |
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Fwiw, on the Riot/Matrix side we just completed a port of @PhABC's slackbot over to being an antispam module for Synapse: https://github.com/matrix-org/antiscam, which will be shipped in Synapse 0.23 due in the next few days. (@PhABC: would be good to chat about how to keep this in sync going forwards, as obviously it suffers a bit from copypasta atm, but the original slackbot code is very entangled with Slack specifics). |
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+1 to RocketChat |
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Can chat anytime @ara4n ! Ping me on Riot : PhABC |
and others
Goals
Description
As Slack was designed for internal use of projects, the tools to run public facing communities are lacking in features that these projects would benefit from having. Migration to a open source project, Rocket.Chat or Riot, will help us manage and govern our communities more efficiently.
Our idea is to fork of the Rocket.Chat Electron app and together in collaboration with other interested projects create a new app for the Ethereum community to have a project selector similar to Slack. The selector could be pre-filled with a list of Ethereum community projects for ease of use. This would help community members by only having one app for the projects that choose to use Rocket.Chat instead of other alternative chat apps and thus bringing the community closer to each other by using a shared tool that can be updated by anyone via Pull Requests to the community driven repository. Projects using this could also pool resources together and support the development of Rocket.Chat, as well as making it more usable.
Initially we would like to hear from other projects in the space to see how much interest there is in such a tool and migration process. Setting up Rocket.Chat requires projects to set up their infrastructure for the service, more information can be found in the Rocket.Chat Documentation and there's an Import tool that can easily migrate your users and channels to Rocket.Chat (but not DM's and private channels).
Riot does not require such efforts as Rocket.Chat, but has the option to run your own infrastructure.
Uncertainties
Are other projects interested in such an effortWe now have support from 5 projectsHow will our community members react to the migration from Slack to Rocket.ChatThe Aragon community has been positive about possible migration to another platformSituation update
I have now created and updated the documents so projects can evaluate the features and possibilities provided by the two open source projects, Rocket Chat and Riot.
Read about RocketChat.
Read about Riot.
If you have anything you want to add or change in the files, please do so via a Pull Request.
Projects supporting this migration
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