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Migrate primary chat from Keybase to a new self-hosted Matrix team #355
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I've been monitoring the existing Matrix room for Bisq over the past few months and the clients have improved a lot. One of the biggest complaints I've gotten from people is that Keybase is hard to access since it requires a login that many don't already have and it requires users to download apps to actually chat. Element has a web interface that doesn't require new app downloads. Users often complain about Keybase's questionable ownership, siloed nature, and potential censorship...especially now that a number of other Bitcoin-related projects have started migrating to Matrix recently, it would be good for Bisq to establish a more meaningful presence there. |
I'm generally +1 on this. My thoughts / feedback:
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For sure. I think we can learn and adapt the room operation and user-oriented messaging in the process to make it smoother over time. |
Yeah, I use fluffychat on iOS which is far superior IMO. The UI on iOS Element is just weird.
Sure, our Keybase group won't go away anytime soon, this proposal is more of getting a rough consensus to start the very slow migration to a self-hosted alternative. One day Keybase will probably do something really evil and then we'll uninstall the app but it will be fine since we'll already have been prepared for that day.
Yeah, I think the web interface of matrix (i.e. without having to install software) is the main advantage for support.
TBH it's up to you guys how to migrate, this is just me as the ops guy saying hey I made this server let's start using it. |
Who would take over the lead for a transition? E.g. communicate, promote, plan transition... |
Definitely @m52go is the best person for this job |
@wiz sooner or later we were going to end up on matrix, glad the project has progressed enough to make it viable
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Yeah good point, I think there was already a Rocket Chat Operator role or something we can just rename. As for migrating I think it's fine as long as we have 4-5 admins to control the room. |
PlanNow
Soon(when there is a notable shift in momentum)
Afterward(when keybase activity is minimal)
@mrosseel do you have access to any of the old Matrix and/or IRC rooms? I think the IRC one is still on Freenode whereas most FOSS projects have moved to Libera. Would it be advisable to shutter these rooms? Or at least remove links to them on the Bisq website? |
@m52go Thanks for taking on that! |
Identity can be currently verified on matrix by using keybase as a medium for 2FA: chat on matrix between userA and userB, A asks B to write them message M on keybase, so B messages A on keybase with "M", they can so get verified. |
Agree, and this needs to be figured out before Matrix is recommended for support. And it needs to be super-simple, or people will be discouraged or skip over it. Two approaches I can think of are:
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I like that both are totally independent from Matrix collaboration. |
That's pretty much how we do it now...Keybase handles are listed on the wiki. I doubt anyone further verifies proofs. We'd just change those handles to Matrix links.
The restricted server would only be used for user accounts, not chat rooms. Users on that server would participate in the #bisq:bitcoin.kyoto space just like everyone else, but anyone could easily check that their accounts are hosted at bisqsupport.org (e.g. Maybe that's overkill and we just need user account links on the wiki. |
I would still prefer the second method, but I can be overengineering sometimes and I see how this would require more tinkering. |
The keybase verification feature is top, but I think that maintaining a list of mediators and support agents links should be enough. We could have a manual web of trust by verifying two or three Matrix accounts and sharing that we have been verified with those two or three users with another verified user. That would speed up a little bit the process of getting the main accounts verified, as we could avoid the proof of external verification, but it's still a very slow process anyway as it needs to be done individually for every account and needs coordination. |
Closing as approved |
Keybase has served the Bisq community very well over the past few years since we migrated from Slack. However, as many of you know Keybase was recently acquired by Zoom, which is not good since Zoom is accused of censoring calls on behalf of the Chinese government.
Recently the matrix protocol and related desktop/mobile apps have come a long way in terms of functionality, and now has a "teams" feature similar to what we are using on Keybase (known as "spaces" on matrix). I've been using it for the mempool project and other personal chats recently and found it to be perfect for Bisq.
While Bisq already has a matrix chat room on the matrix.org server I propose to migrate this to a new Bisq team on my self-hosted matrix server, accessible at
@bisq:bitcoin.kyoto
with a quick link setup at bisq.chat - I've already setup the space and a few rooms for those who want to check it out. I recommend the Element desktop app, and fluffychat for iPhone. There are many other fine apps for Desktop and Mobile available.Please check it out and let me know what you think.
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