Some suggestions for next versions

[ghost]

Hi, I have tried DOOM RETRO a few days ago and I must say you did a very good job at creating a cool Classic-like source port, yet modern at same time. ;) I've got some suggestions for the next version (sadly there was already a new version released a couple of hours ago and I haven't got time to play it or to make suggestions before it was released) but anyway, here are my suggestions for the next (1.7?) version:

1. Automap stats. I want to know how many monsters I have killed and how many secrets I have found. Since I plan to replay all Doom games but this time finding all secrets and killing all monsters in all maps (exceptions are E4M3, E4M7, MAP15 and MAP27, in these maps it is impossible to get all secrets without cheating and I don't want that), I am probably gonna use Doom Retro and I want to have this feature added.

2. Remove black edges on screen. I have noticed that when classic HUD is selected, I have black edges on screen. Why? It has been like that since first version. But when I tried widescreen HUD, the screen was normal. Yes I have a widescreen monitor but I hate those black edges on screen. Other source ports don't do this.

3. Weapon centering when firing. Somehow this feature found it's way in BOTH Crispy Doom and Doom Retro (versions 1.5). I hate to say but I don't like this feature. I liked the old vanilla behavior when shooting, the weapon remained in same angle but in ZDoom-like source ports (and now both Crispy Doom & Doom Retro), it goes automatically to center. I never understood why 2 "classic" source ports change this. I understand the reason ZDoom did this but I don't understand why Crispy and Retro do this. Well Fabian explained to me when I reported this in Crispy Doom github but is there any reason why it was also "fixed" in Doom Retro? What was exactly wrong with that old feature? Yes it's not a big problem and it's a very minor change but for me it matters and takes away vanilla experience.

4. Maybe merge all changes from newer versions of Chocolate Doom? The code is based off Chocolate Doom 1.7.0 but there have been many changes since then and I would like Doom Retro to be fully updated and based off Chocolate Doom 2.0.0. I understand that you wanted to coincide Doom Retro 1.0 with Doom's 20th Anniversary (at that time latest version of Chocolate Doom was 1.7.0) but perhaps when you will release Doom Retro 2.0, will you make it based off Chocolate Doom 2.0.0? Sorry if it's a confusing question but I tried to be as clear as possible.

5. Possibly adding Heretic, Hexen and Strife support in future with all the wonderful changes you made into Doom? I see you added Chex Quest support but the game was based directly off Doom source code and it was easier to add. But I would still like to see Heretic Retro, Hexen Retro and Strife Retro in future. :)

Thanks and I hope you reply!
-FistMarine

[bradharding]

Thanks for your suggestions. I'll address them each one by one:

1. Automap stats. I want to know how many monsters I have killed and how many secrets I have found. Since I plan to replay all Doom games but this time finding all secrets and killing all monsters in all maps (exceptions are E4M3, E4M7, MAP15 and MAP27, in these maps it is impossible to get all secrets without cheating and I don't want that), I am probably gonna use Doom Retro and I want to have this feature added.

This is something I have been considering, but have two concerns: firstly, as you may have noticed, Doom Retro has been kept as "minimalist" as possible. I've tried to avoid additional features that add elements that are glaringly obvious, and in this case, adding stats to the automap will add clutter that is distinctly different from Vanilla Doom. Secondly, having stats to refer to affects gameplay slightly, by making things a bit easier. Secrets are meant to be secret! The player should be using their skills as a player to survey the map and work out where any secrets may be, or if any monsters are left, as intended. Or cheat. That said, in the future I may implement a console where you will be able to pull stats like that (and much more).

2. Remove black edges on screen. I have noticed that when classic HUD is selected, I have black edges on screen. Why? It has been like that since first version. But when I tried widescreen HUD, the screen was normal. Yes I have a widescreen monitor but I hate those black edges on screen. Other source ports don't do this.

When the classic status bar is selected, "pillarboxes" are shown either side of the display to retain Vanilla Doom's original aspect ratio. This is how it is supposed to look, and Doom Retro is meant to replicate that (hence the "Retro" in its name). Chocolate Doom and Crispy Doom do this as well, but I believe by default they will stretch the display horizontally to fill a widescreen monitor. Other source ports may stretch the display, but this is making everything fatter than they are meant to. My implementation of widescreen mode is different to other source ports as far as I am aware: effectively I take the player's view and zoom in on it to fill the widescreen monitor: same aspect ratio, no horizontal stretching. Other ports have the classic status bar on a widescreen display, but once again they either stretch the display horizontally, or crop and/or increase the field of view: which affect how Vanilla Doom originally looked.

3. Weapon centering when firing. Somehow this feature found it's way in BOTH Crispy Doom and Doom Retro (versions 1.5). I hate to say but I don't like this feature. I liked the old vanilla behavior when shooting, the weapon remained in same angle but in ZDoom-like source ports (and now both Crispy Doom & Doom Retro), it goes automatically to center. I never understood why 2 "classic" source ports change this. I understand the reason ZDoom did this but I don't understand why Crispy and Retro do this. Well Fabian explained to me when I reported this in Crispy Doom github but is there any reason why it was also "fixed" in Doom Retro? What was exactly wrong with that old feature? Yes it's not a big problem and it's a very minor change but for me it matters and takes away vanilla experience.

I've seen the discussion on this issue. I'm not particularly attached to this feature, so I'll look at implementing a setting to revert its behavior.

4. Maybe merge all changes from newer versions of Chocolate Doom? The code is based off Chocolate Doom 1.7.0 but there have been many changes since then and I would like Doom Retro to be fully updated and based off Chocolate Doom 2.0.0. I understand that you wanted to coincide Doom Retro 1.0 with Doom's 20th Anniversary (at that time latest version of Chocolate Doom was 1.7.0) but perhaps when you will release Doom Retro 2.0, will you make it based off Chocolate Doom 2.0.0? Sorry if it's a confusing question but I tried to be as clear as possible.

Doom Retro has deviated quite a bit from the Chocolate Doom source, but I have been cherry-picking changes made to Chocolate Doom ever since Doom Retro's release. Are there any specific features in Chocolate Doom that you have in mind?

5. Possibly adding Heretic, Hexen and Strife support in future with all the wonderful changes you made into Doom? I see you added Chex Quest support but the game was based directly off Doom source code and it was easier to add. But I would still like to see Heretic Retro, Hexen Retro and Strife Retro in future. :)

Absolutely! But I have a shitload of other stuff to do before I get there, so Heretic, Hexen and Strife support is looking very much waaaaay into the future. I'd like to implement (in no particular order) a console, full BOOM compatibility, and interpolation first.

[ghost]

Thanks for reply!

1. I think you should add an option to toggle between having automap stats and not. It's useful for me who wants to get every secret and kill every monster in each map. Although I did read in Doom Retro 1.0 release notes that you made those inaccessible secrets to not be counted anymore (does this feature only affect original maps or all maps in general from PWADS as well?)

2. Maybe you could add an option to make the screen resolution stretch to fit monitor? I really hate seeing black bars on edge. Chocolate Doom for example stretches to fit monitor in lower resolutions but on higher resolutions, it seems to add black bars on screen too.

3. Once again this should be optional. People can choose to have the old behavior back or new behavior.

4. I don't really have specific features that should be added, I was suggesting to merge some changes to make Doom Retro be based off Chocolate Doom 2.1.0 (as few days ago 2.1.0 was released). Just like how Zandronum does in each new major version, it takes code from later ZDoom versions to catch up because there were some features fixed and whatnot.

5. Good to know. I am looking forward to BOOM compatibility as I am eager to play some Boom-compatible PWADS with Doom Retro because I am not too fond of PrBoom+ (I don't understand why some people say it's closer to vanilla, for me it looks quite different) and I would prefer a closer look to vanilla and it seems like Doom Retro it's perfect candidate for this.

Also I have one more suggestion I forgot to mention but how about adding a full Master Levels support? I have read that Master Levels when loaded will now display correct map names and that's a good thing. But how about making all expansions available in new game menu at same time when configured the path to detect them? Something like Eternity does:
http://imgur.com/a/pxRWa#2
Except I would like Master Levels to be second episode, while NRFTL to be third.

What I actually want is to auto-detect Master Levels folder (containing the 20 wads) and NRFTL and once both detected, they will show in new game menu without overwriting anything. Now you have 2 choices:
a. When you select Master Levels, you will begin the master levels all played in a single episode. The order will be based off PSN's Doom Classic Complete since it's one that makes most sense (at least for me). I realize it will break the balance of maps as they are all meant to be played from pistol start but so are all original Doom 1 and 2 maps.
b. When you select Master Levels, you will then be shown a menu where you select the wad to play.

Let me know what do you think about that. I really want an "official" Master Levels support. :)

[bradharding]

1. I think you should add an option to toggle between having automap stats and not. It's useful for me who wants to get every secret and kill every monster in each map.

I will unlikely do this, except when I get around to doing a console.

Although I did read in Doom Retro 1.0 release notes that you made those inaccessible secrets to not be counted anymore (does this feature only affect original maps or all maps in general from PWADS as well?)

This feature is only for the original IWADs.

2. Maybe you could add an option to make the screen resolution stretch to fit monitor? I really hate seeing black bars on edge. Chocolate Doom for example stretches to fit monitor in lower resolutions but on higher resolutions, it seems to add black bars on screen too.

This won't be changed.

3. Once again this should be optional. People can choose to have the old behavior back or new behavior.

Done in commit 961cdf2.

Also I have one more suggestion I forgot to mention but how about adding a full Master Levels support? ...

This is something I have considered in the past. I'll investigate Eternity's implementation. Thanks.

[flukejones]

On the topic of widescreen etc;
You say you just zoom the screen in? Is this the same as FOV?

[bradharding]

Not exactly. By "zoom" I mean the area above the status bar is enlarged to fill the widescreen display, which is done after the view is rendered. Field of view is referring to increase the periphery of the player's view each side so the player effectively sees more.

[flukejones]

I see. That explains the 16:10 ratio then.
Have you considering mucking with FOV? Unsure what the present degree is, but you could perhaps increase it so the player can indeed see more, and move the view center backwards a little to accomodate for the shift.

I do like the 16:10 way of doing it though, as it keeps the 'pixel' aspect quite nicely.

[bradharding]

I've thought about increasing the FOV, but I don't like the slight "fish eye lens" distortion it creates. And just embiggening the view like I do now does keep the view exactly the same and "retro".

[flukejones]

It should be possible to increase the FOV, without producing that effect.
Draw it out on paper, put a dot for the players head, draw a 4:3 screen a certain distance away, and draw lines from the player to the screen edges and past. Then do the same for a 16:10 and 16:9, that should give you a good approximation of the required FOV's for each aspect ratio.
So in essence, you'll have 3 sets of FOV, one for each res aspect.

[bradharding]

Sorry for the late reply: overlooked your response. I'll definitely get around to playing with the FOV and see what I can come up with.

[flukejones]

No worries!

Hey just pulled the latest version;

r_main.c:101:25: error: conflicting types for ‘automapactive’
extern int automapactive;
^
In file included from r_main.c:35:0:
doomstat.h:161:25: note: previous declaration of ‘automapactive’ was here
extern boolean automapactive; // In AutoMap mode?
^
Makefile:41: recipe for target 'r_main.o' failed

On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 8:27 PM, Brad Harding notifications@github.com
wrote:

Sorry for the late reply: overlooked your response. I'll definitely get
around to playing with the FOV and see what I can come up with.

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Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub
#53 (comment)
.

[bradharding]

Thanks. Handled in commit e24cfbc.

[bradharding]

Closing this. To address @ghost's first suggestion, totalkills, totalitems and totalsecrets are now implemented in the console. Weapon centering has been optioned in a previous build.