HPR IFF reversion.

[Chainsawicus]

About The Pull Request

The IFF functionality of the HPR with a bipod has been removed, the define that makes it possible has been kept in case it either needs to come back or ends up used for another weapon.

Why It's Good For The Game

The HPR has contributed massively to the game's current issue of "IFF squadrons" that allow for brainless unending walls of gunfire and put out obscene amounts of damage.

When the HPR was first given IFF it was stated to be an experimental change that may potentially require reverting. The experiment has lasted a long while but with permission from Geeves who first added the feature, it is being removed until a suitable alternative can be made.

Changelog

🆑 ChainsawMullet
balance: Changed the HPR to no longer be granted IFF when deploying a bipod.
/:cl:

[github-actions]

You currently have a negative Fix/Feature pull request delta of -7. Maintainers may close this PR at will. Fixing issues or improving the codebase will improve this score.

[ghost]

HPR will be useless again following this PR, it’s niche was providing covering fire. The fire rate without a bipod is abysmal, and you will rarely (if ever)have a chance to use it with a bipod on the front.

This should come with an actual rework and not just be it’s own change.

[Strobia]

marine nerf +1 will force people to learn not to FF +1 no more cancer IFF lines as xeno +1 ( MERGE THIS NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! )

[morrowwolf]

I think this will need to be more than a straight nerf to the weapon. Likely will need some more tweaking.

[PhantomEpicness]

SOUL

I love getting burst HPR'd in the back, just like the good ole days in 2019!

[sose96]

It got the IFF buff because it was irrelevant and useless in the meta, atleast try and rebalance it in some way rather than disabling it’s only useful feature outright.

[Chainsawicus]

It got the IFF buff because it was irrelevant and useless in the meta, atleast try and rebalance it in some way rather than disabling it’s only useful feature outright.

From the original MR:

And as stated above, I received permission from the developer who added the IFF in the first place to make this reversion.

[FoxyStalin]

How come xeno stuff never get this treatment? Things that actually dunk on balance like Shaman and Warden get full reworks and testmerges to tweak every detail before getting replaced, but the poor HPR gets put back into utter uselessness without even an idea of what to do with it afterword.

And that's beside the point that HPR IFF isn't particularly good outside it's niche anyway.

[FlamermanGrills]

HPR going back to never pick so cool!!!!

[Chainsawicus]

How come xeno stuff never get this treatment? Things that actually dunk on balance like Shaman and Warden get full reworks and testmerges to tweak every detail before getting replaced, but the poor HPR gets put back into utter uselessness without even an idea of what to do with it afterword.

And that's beside the point that HPR IFF isn't particularly good outside it's niche anyway.

I removed Boxer literally a couple weeks ago because it wasn't getting the rework it needed, what exactly do you mean xenos "never get this treatment" when they explicitly just did.

As for how strong HPR IFF is, HPR + SG IFF deathstacks have literally been the go-to easy meta for like the last 3 months and you're blind if you didn't notice. They're low effort, low skill, low risk, and insanely high reward.

[Erawh]

Gigga based PR, HPR bravoids on copium hard rn.
On a more serious note, the HPR has very similar DPS as a regular MK2, with 300 round mags and essentially free IFF with just one attachment and few downsides. Even without the IFF its a mk2 sidegrade, giving up a bit of flexibility and AP rounds for gigantic magasines and super good choke spaming potential and also holotargeting ammo. Give it a go for a bit, see how it plays without IFF and if no one uses it look at maybe look at giving it some buffs, or additional interesting non regular ammo.

[usnpeepoo]

IFF gameplay on the front is cancer, when there are more than 2 (or even just 2 depending on whatever castes the hive has) HPR users on the frront it gets changed dramatically. You can't push them, because they have 600 ROF with bipod, you can't exactly kill the people in front of them , it has IFF. Creates this dilemma where marines who aren't using HPR can simply walk forward and take ground while xenos who try to stop them get melted by HPR users. If the IFF were to be removed, the HPR would at least have risk for being able to melt down xenos, and they can't just sit behind a choke and wait for any xeno to walk on screen. Almost a year since the IFF was included as well, it's been too long.

[Wintermote]

Can't agree with this change.

There has to be more adjusted to make the HPR a viable weapon standing on its own merits. Right now the only thing that makes the HPR usable - not even good, just usable - is the IFF.

The holo ammo just sucks. Literal do-nothing ammo. Nobody uses it.
The IFF sucks. You are constantly shuffled out of position and it causes FF
The DPS sucks because it has IFF

If you're going to remove the IFF, you need to do something about the damage output or utility with holo ammo.

As it stands, all you've done with this PR is remove the HPR as a viable weapon and created yet another noob trap for new players.

[Wintermote]

u say iff is redeemable then u say iff is bad, then u cant do basic 3rd degree math multiplying 40 by 10 for 400 theoretical dps as if iff even has a bearing on the dps. your math and logic skills suck kid i hope you never get into college

The IFF is usable but has major UI/UX problems relating to deploying the bipod that really need to be fixed - things like clicking too far off to one side undeploying you (or did that get fixed already?) and people bumping into you and undeploying the bipod.

As for DPS, I think your opinion on it makes it clear you don't actually use this gun. There's a huge wield delay and setup time with the bipod, you cannot use it for chasing or when you get surprised. Just about the only time the bipod is usable is when you're sitting behind a stack of marines covering them, but if you don't have IFF there's no point to this as you now cannot shoot anything through the mass of marines.

So you're stuck, essentially, trying to set up a static fire position with an extremely limited 6-7 tile viewing range against an enemy force that quickly moves around the map and can easily flank you or pounce right up to you, and then you have no choice but to immediately undeploy the bipod and move to create space and maintain line of fire or die.

I really get the feeling that both the creator of this PR and the people in favor of it have no clue why the HPR got IFF in the first place, let alone how bad the gun already is even with the IFF.

[Gachiweeb]

u say iff is redeemable then u say iff is bad, then u cant do basic 3rd degree math multiplying 40 by 10 for 400 theoretical dps as if iff even has a bearing on the dps. your math and logic skills suck kid i hope you never get into college

The IFF is usable but has major UI/UX problems relating to deploying the bipod that really need to be fixed - things like clicking too far off to one side undeploying you (or did that get fixed already?) and people bumping into you and undeploying the bipod.

As for DPS, I think your opinion on it makes it clear you don't actually use this gun. There's a huge wield delay and setup time with the bipod, you cannot use it for chasing or when you get surprised. Just about the only time the bipod is usable is when you're sitting behind a stack of marines covering them, but if you don't have IFF there's no point to this as you now cannot shoot anything through the mass of marines.

So you're stuck, essentially, trying to set up a static fire position with an extremely limited 6-7 tile viewing range against an enemy force that quickly moves around the map and can easily flank you or pounce right up to you, and then you have no choice but to immediately undeploy the bipod and move to create space and maintain line of fire or die.

I really get the feeling that both the creator of this PR and the people in favor of it have no clue why the HPR got IFF in the first place, let alone how bad the gun already is even with the IFF.

I really get the feeling you have no idea how the game works.

First of all, getting pushed while deployed doesn't undeploy you. You can literally stand behind a deployed guy and push him towards the direction you want while he rains 10 rounds a second with IFF.

Clicking "too far off" is a non issue if you are not brain damaged as the firing arc for it is 180 degrees which is half of your screen.

There's no delay on undeploying the bipod only when deploying it.

The majority of time in a normal round is spent in a push pull fight in chokes be it caves or xeno made defenses which usually means a straight path that marines or xenos have to get into to either defend or push. A single marine with a set up HPR completely prevents xenos from defending or pushing a choke without dying in 2 seconds, which leaves an easy path for marines to just walk while rain of bullets protects them.

Proper positioning with it is easy if you know map and repositioning when pushing or running is even easier as you can undeploy it instantly without getting slowed.

Giving the gun IFF was a mistake and further buffing it by giving it increased firerate on bipod made it broken in proper hands. The only reason why we rarely see the gun dominating groundside is that barely anyone enjoys mindlessly clicking as fast as you can hoping that the incoming xeno doesn't realize that his health got melted in under a second.

[ghost]

Okay I played queen vs the HPR m56d m56 m46c IFF hell stack it was so hecking epic, great PR actually :D

[Don2137]

Only downside of this pr is that I won't be able to grief hproids with trapper anymore

[Sargeantmuffinman]

If this is to go in.

Would you also kindly add #22 to the change as well.

Without the IFF it's just a weaker LMG for defence only or a shittier high capacity MK2.

Adding the suppression stack mechanic would at least give it a niche.

[FoxyStalin]

If this is to go in.

Would you also kindly add #22 to the change as well.

Without the IFF it's just a weaker LMG for defence only or a shittier high capacity MK2.

Adding the suppression stack mechanic would at least give it a niche.

Actually, yeah, full agree. I had forgotten about that, did this ever get a Testmerge in?

[Nanu308]

IFF has been proven to be too strong when it becomes easily attainable, and especially so when Marines are as grouped as they are which severely limits xeno's ability to move/push/defend areas due to the covering fire they provide together with the other IFF weaponry.

[Strobia]

IFF is unfun to use & fight, if you use this gun, I hate you.

[morrowwolf]

Code LGTM!

[github-actions]

Your Fix/Feature pull request is currently below zero (-12). Maintainers may close future Feature/Balance PRs. Fixing issues or helping to improve the codebase will raise this score.

[XanHiroki]

I'd rather see it just have only holotargeting rounds with a bit less damage, removing the IFF from the HPR removes it from the game pretty much entirely unless you just want an M56D that isnt even capable of passing as good.

Edit: Clarification

[dunsel-hordon]

You should at least give it more damage since you went and removed the IFF from it. People act like the IFF was a game stopper for xenos from pushing when as I am a regular user of the gun can tell you that a xeno can slowly spit you down if you are trying to hold a position and there is nothing you can do in retaliation. The gun is literally only used to hold choke points and act as defense. I wouldn't be against maybe an attachment being needed to bring back the IFF or just letting the smart scope be put on it and lowering the fire rate. As it stand now the HPR is dog shit because if you are already in the position where the xenos are pushing you can't stand at a cade line and shoot xenos because literally in 1 minute you will have to fall back as to much acid damage. Same if they are melting your push nothing you can do with it now to support your people. I guess really the HPR should just be removed from the game and everyone will use the m56d guns now. Not like it takes much longer to set it up and take it down than the hpr did.

[cm13live]

This pull request has been mentioned on CM-SS13. Please provide feedback here:

https://forum.cm-ss13.com/t/cryo-sleep-thread-see-you-next-week/598/7