Hellfire content with Diablo systems?

[agris-codes]

Hi All-

Longtime, as in loooong time fan of D1 here, I recently became aware of this project and it's very impressive. I've been browsing the PRs, discussions and issue tracker to get a sense for the state of the project, as well as community priorities, and I wanted to share some feedback on Hellfire implementation.

I understand that Hellfire to be based upon Diablo v1.02, and to have implemented some itemization and systems changes that were never implemented in base Diablo 1. Things such as changing the starting staff of the Sorc, initial spell cost, and likely many many under the hood mechanics changes.

Snippet from another forum:

Hellfire completely [screws up initial Sorc difficulty] by switching out your starting staff of Charged Bolt (powerful but runs out fast) with a Staff of Mana (essentially like carrying an extra 18 mana potions every time you enter the labyrinth, and it recharges for like 300 gold where potions cost 50 each). For some reason beyond understanding they also cut his starting spell costs (normally spells start costing much more to cast then with higher levels they go down to about 50% as much, sorcerer starts at min costs). So Sorcerers in Hellfire can just throw spells around like candy, clearing out the first 3-4 floors of the labyrinth in one go, where normally you'd be limping back to town at least once a level, spending half your gold on more mana potions, and using bows to kill any slow zombies.

This has me wondering:

1. Are the systems-level changes that Hellfire instituted over vanilla Diablo (i.e. magic cost) documented in a comprehensive manner anywhere?
2. When devilutionX is only using the vanilla Diablo MPQ, not Hellfire's additional file, is it implementing Diablo's or Hellfire's systems and mechanics - such as the Sorc starting staff and spell costs
3. Assuming devilutionX is toggling between the two implementations of game mechanics depending on which MPQs are found, is it possible to (a) play Hellfire using Diablo's mechanics, or (b) play Diablo using Hellfire's mechanics?

I'm sure basic things like this were hashed out much earlier in the project, so feel free to reference earlier discussions. My goal here is to play through Hellfire with the core mechanics of Diablo v1.09b plus all the new options afforded by devilutionX.

Sorry for such a long first post!

PS - how is "hold LMB to continue attacking" not a feature?! I guess I need to fire up d2clicker.

[AJenbo]

hellfire is based on what is much closer to 1.04, except for one bugfix.

1 you can see all the hellfire differences by searching for gbIsHellfire https://github.com/diasurgical/devilutionX/search?q=gbIsHellfire

2 The logic is also toggeled

3 You can change gbIsHellfire to 0 for the parts of hellfire that you would like to avoid

[AJenbo]

correct, some people have been thinking about making a mod like that, but its not something we plan on adding as we try not to change things that where deliberate choices by the original devs.

[agris-codes]

It's not too crazy of a modification, playing Hellfire with Diablo mechanics that is, if you consider that (1) Hellfire, while a licensed product, was not made by the same development team as Diablo and (2) during Blizzard's post-release support for Diablo 1, which I believe extended pass Hellfire's release on 11/25/1997, patches were issued for Diablo which did not elect to port over Hellfire's changes, such as spell cost.

This may be a good intro to github project for myself, actually.

[AJenbo]

We have already applied the Diablo 1.04 - 1.09 patches to Hellfire.

[agris-codes]

We have already applied the Diablo 1.04 - 1.09 patches to Hellfire.

Understood, my point being that the Diablo developers did not elect to implement some of the Hellfire mechanical changes in their post-Hellfire release Diablo patches. With that observation, playing Hellfire content with Diablo mechanics may actually be closer to the Diablo devs intent, but obviously not that of the Hellfire team at Sierra.

[AJenbo]

Diablo 1.07 actually does contain mechanics that where added (slightly differently) in Hellfire 1.01, which came out first. Its not easy to say what they liked and what they didn't, as they didn't share patches and most development effort was going in to Diablo 2 at the time (that's why Sierra was contracted to do the expansion).

[agris-codes]

Now, I very much feel as if I am a caveman poking at fire, but I have gotten to the point where I can compile the master branch on my windows machine, and the resulting devilution.exe does not crash with limited testing, so I feel as if I am in a good place to try to externalize some of the hellfire vs diablo mechanics when Hellfire's MPQ is present.

Assume the default environment is Diablo + Hellfire MPQs, I plan to created .ini switches to do the following:

• Remove Hellfire maps
• Remove Hellfire quests
• Remove Hellfire character classes
• Remove Hellfire potions
• Remove Hellfire items
• Revert Sorc's starting staff to Diablo's default
• Revert Sorc spell cost scaling to Diablo's default

That gives players with both Hellfire & Diablo a good set of options to customize their game, without the barrier of entry that source modification + compilation poses.

Other suggestions for options are welcome!

[AJenbo]

? I'm very keen on an in-game option for editing option. Don't know how you would get the opposite impression. See: #1561 Basically uses should not know that the ini file exists unless they want to do something advanced that normal users shouldn't be exposed to either.

But an ingame option doesn't make much sens with out a ini option to save it to. Else you will have to change the setting each time you start the game.

[agris-codes]

Thanks @AJenbo, when I read your post below saying in-game and .ini were essentially the same thing, I was assuming you didn't like either.

So all in-game menu item selections have to be tracked via an external file, even vanilla options like Gamma? That link looks great, could you point me to a source file or two that governs these menus?

I know that modern convention is that we have these kind of discussions on something like Discord, and apologies for not using it. Personally, I find the growth of platforms such as Discord commensurate with the loss of knowledge afforded by searchable forums. The chats are transitory, and don't provide any value to potential future players searching for information. That's why I'm making a point to use the Discussions section.

[AJenbo]

So all in-game menu item selections have to be tracked via an external file, even vanilla options like Gamma?

How else would the application remember it? The original saved most of the settings (like gamma) in to the Windows registry, but that is both platform specific and not a very good system imo, and in the end the registry is saved to an external file as well.

That link looks great, could you point me to a source file or two that governs these menus?

https://github.com/diasurgical/devilutionX/blob/master/Source/help.cpp
(I'm currently cleaning up this file, the code there isn't very reusable so probably you would have to write most of it from scratch)

chats are transitory, and don't provide any value to potential future players searching for information. That's why I'm making a point to use the Discussions section.

Discord actually has a fairly decent search function for what it is worth. And it really shines when it comes to reducing noise like "How do I install VS" from appearing in every GitHub issue.

[agris-codes]

Thanks, and I'm trying to be conscious of not contributing to the noise. That's part of why I'm just now compiling from source 15 days after we starting talking about this :) But mostly it's that my responsibilities don't particularly care that I've found a competent remake of one of my favorite games from childhood...

[AJenbo]

GitHub Discussion ads a good middle ground, but feel free to come on the chat and ask some basic questions, or simply just hang out.

[AJenbo]

There's quite a few customization switches already contained in the .ini file, so it isn't as if this is new territory.

Correction, there are already to many :D

The idea behind softcodeing is that you can easily add/delete/modefy individual items. With ini switches you can only enable or disable a predefined behavior.

Although, the ability the set these options from an in-game menu is intriguing. And likely beyond my immediately ability. But such a model is more friendly option for builds for mobile, where file system access and modification is more difficult or impossible.

An ingame menu would be editing the ini file so there isn't really a distinction, just a nicer user interface for doing the same thing.

[qqkookie]

I played Hellfire for a while. Please, consider my experience on Hellfire for selecting the group of feature set to make optional.

I like:

• Search spell: it should be introduced as press "alt" to show items on floor and map. Real saver for my aging eye to reduce eye fatigue and strain.
• Warp spell: Better than Teleport or Phasing
• Nova spell book (because Flash spell is useless)
• New Unique items (esp. amulet/rings)
• Auric Amulet (gold 5K -> 10K limit to buy expensive (>200K) item from Griswold
• New unique mob (group leader) with distinct color pallet in a mob group
• Item transfer to other single character through crypt tile.
• Speedwalk in town

Not bad, don't care:

• Monk class, it is optional anyway.
• New maps and new quests, it is optional anyway
• New Shrines (can be avoided)
• Oils. As long as temporary boost, not permanent.

I dislike or think useless:

• New spells: Berserk, Ring of Fire, Immolation, Lightning Wall, Reflect
• Apocalypses spell book
• The rune items (trap),
• New item modifiers (affix/suffix) (like jester's, doppelganger's)
• I hate Griswold trying to sell better items than I have. I need +30 strength Titan ring or +30 magic Wizard ring though I have +20 all stats Obsidian Ring of Zodiac. I like it to be half-and-half.
• I agree that the sorcerer's starting staff is too much.

For feature set selection, we can use the existing option mechanism in Diablo.ini: DevilutionX already has few Hellfire related options like "Theo Quest,Cow Quest,Test Bard,Test Barbarian" in Source/option.h/struct GameplayOptions, why not add more?

And please consider the "hold to shoot" (hold LMB to shoot continuously) feature. My aging carpal tunnel is suffering.

[AJenbo]

Most people don't k now what to do with a diff file, probably just push it as a fork on your github account.

[Marcelo20XX]

My goal is different, I dislike Hellfire aside from the Monk Class, so I would probably only include that class to the rooster and nothing else...

EDIT: Well I will try to branch the repo then Ajenbo... with my minimal Ui mod included as a separate branch too and excuse me the mess of my code in advance, I usually only code to get things done, that's why I almost never attempt to make any PR...

[AJenbo]

branches still work

[agris-codes]

Every brick, no matter it’s purpose, contributes to the road.

Your limited scope mod may inspire others with a broader vision, closer to my own but with more ability. I wish you luck!

[Marcelo20XX]

I added the Monk class to the character rooster of Diablo, if you want to try it here is the link as promised:
Marcelo20XX@1a2b115