[d3d9/d3d11] add samplerLodBias to d3d9 and clampNegativeLodBias for both d3d9 and d3d11 #3435

EndlesslyFlowering · 2023-05-20T13:28:24Z

d3d9.clampNegativeLodBias addresses #2779

a negative lod bias can help for some d3d9 games to look better
while clamping the negative load bias can also help some other games too 😄

Thanks to @Kaldaien for giving me the code for clamping in D3D9!

ViNi-Arco · 2023-05-20T22:09:16Z

Oh my god, I can't believe there is any progress happening on this issue! for years we have shimmering in old games on modern video cards, and the only solutions was to use old Windows with outdated drivers or use an old 2008~2009 video card with NegativeLodBias "clamp" for example 8800 gt, gtx 285... Thanks Lilium and Andon M. Coleman for taking the time to create a solution

ViNi-Arco · 2023-05-20T22:16:35Z

But unfortunately something is wrong, I tested it on GTA Vice City and it didn't solve his shimmering:

as you can see where I marked in red, the game still applies a very high negative Lod

lextra2 · 2023-05-20T22:38:59Z

@ViNi-Arco what value did you use? I think positive values are less sharp, so you'd want to use that.

Blisto91 · 2023-05-20T22:50:23Z

Vice city is d3d8 🤔
Or are you using d3d8to9

EndlesslyFlowering · 2023-05-20T23:38:41Z

But unfortunately something is wrong, I tested it on GTA Vice City and it didn't solve his shimmering:

as you can see where I marked in red, the game still applies a very high negative Lod

I used this anisotropic filtering and lod bias tester to verify that it is indeed working:
https://www.3dcenter.org/download/d3d-af-tester

While also trying a few games where it applied correctly too.
Not sure what the issue with Vice City is :(

ViNi-Arco · 2023-05-20T23:38:46Z

Vice city is d3d8 thinking
Or are you using d3d8to9

Sup Blisto, I always use D3D8to9 because of Skygfx and rwd3d9 and other mods..

what value did you use? I think positive values are less sharp, so you'd want to use that.

I do not understand what you want to know, you speak of lod bias?
I do not use anything, standard that the game apply Lod.

ViNi-Arco · 2023-05-20T23:46:00Z

I used this anisotropic filtering and lod bias tester to verify that it is indeed working:
https://www.3dcenter.org/download/d3d-af-tester

While also trying a few games where it applied correctly too.
Not sure what the issue with Vice City is :(

Hello dear, I will test in more games to see how lod behaves in them

EndlesslyFlowering · 2023-05-20T23:58:58Z

I used this anisotropic filtering and lod bias tester to verify that it is indeed working:
https://www.3dcenter.org/download/d3d-af-tester

While also trying a few games where it applied correctly too.
Not sure what the issue with Vice City is :(

Hello dear, I will test in more games to see how lod behaves in them

I wrote a quick logger for the lod bias the game supplies and the one you overwrite with the conf options:
https://github.com/EndlesslyFlowering/dxvk/tree/lod-stuff-logger
d3d9.logLodBias = true

looks like this:

info:  old lod bias: -3 new: 0
info:  old lod bias: -6.5 new: 0
info:  old lod bias: -6 new: 0
info:  old lod bias: -5.5 new: 0
info:  old lod bias: -5 new: 0
info:  old lod bias: -4.5 new: 0
info:  old lod bias: -4 new: 0
info:  old lod bias: -3.5 new: 0
info:  old lod bias: -2.5 new: 0
info:  old lod bias: -2 new: 0
info:  old lod bias: -1.5 new: 0
info:  old lod bias: -1 new: 0
info:  old lod bias: -0.5 new: 0

ViNi-Arco · 2023-05-21T02:19:49Z

The GTA VC log, reports a single line:
info: old lod bias: 0 new: 0

It says the lod is already at 0

ViNi-Arco · 2023-05-21T02:32:55Z

I tested it on the NFS Carbon, and it doesn't seem to be able to identify the lods of the games, look at the log:

   info:  old lod bias: 0 new: 0
   info:  old lod bias: 0 new: 0
   info:  old lod bias: 0 new: 0
   info:  old lod bias: 0 new: 0
   info:  old lod bias: 0 new: 0
   info:  old lod bias: 0 new: 0
   info:  old lod bias: 0 new: 0
   info:  old lod bias: 0 new: 0
   info:  old lod bias: 0 new: 0
   info:  old lod bias: 0 new: 0
   info:  old lod bias: 0 new: 0
   info:  old lod bias: 0 new: 0
   info:  old lod bias: 0 new: 0
   info:  old lod bias: 0 new: 0
   info:  old lod bias: 0 new: 0
   info:  old lod bias: 0 new: 0

Reports as 0 on all

Edit: I will test more d3d9 games, especially those from 2004 or older, to see if the log reports anything

aufkrawall · 2023-05-21T13:48:34Z

The clamp option doesn't work for me in Filter Tester, negative LOD still can be used:
https://www.3dcenter.org/dateien/dateien/3DCenterFilterTesterSetup%201.1.exe

It's D3D10 32 bit and you need a Wine version with Vulkan child window support.
d3d11.samplerLodBias = -2 works. I also tested d3d9.samplerLodBias = -1.5 in Mirror's Edge and that worked too.

Perhaps it would also be possible to offer more control for the clamp:
d3d11/9.clampLodBias = positive/negative/both
?

pchome · 2023-05-21T16:05:16Z

So, any real example where the clamp helps?

aufkrawall · 2023-05-21T16:55:42Z

So, any real example where the clamp helps?

Well, if the clamp doesn't work (i.e. if the Filter Tester case above applies in general), it can't be demonstrated.

pchome · 2023-05-21T17:15:06Z

@aufkrawall
There is difference in d3d11 part:

if (info.minFilter == VK_FILTER_LINEAR && info.magFilter == VK_FILTER_LINEAR)

EndlesslyFlowering · 2023-05-21T20:18:31Z

@aufkrawall There is difference in d3d11 part:

if (info.minFilter == VK_FILTER_LINEAR && info.magFilter == VK_FILTER_LINEAR)

I am following the previous work for applying a lod bias by @doitsujin here

EndlesslyFlowering · 2023-05-21T21:03:30Z

So, any real example where the clamp helps?

I guess not? 😅
people really wanted it in the mentioned issue so I added it for them :D
seems like the Nvidia's driver back then did something else too?

EndlesslyFlowering · 2023-05-21T21:08:46Z

@ViNi-Arco
looking at this article here it seems Nvidia forcefully created mip maps for it seems every (?) texture when enabling "clamp negative lod bias".

iirc there is a option in D3D9 to automatically create mip maps for textures that don't have any.
I'll look into that :)

ViNi-Arco · 2023-05-21T22:18:54Z

looking at this article here it seems Nvidia forcefully created mip maps for it seems every (?) texture when enabling "clamp negative lod bias".

iirc there is a option in D3D9 to automatically create mip maps for textures that don't have any.
I'll look into that :)

Wow, so Nvidia's "Negative LOD Bias" option did a lot more under the hood. Thank you very much for looking into this

EndlesslyFlowering · 2023-05-21T23:18:11Z

looking at this article here it seems Nvidia forcefully created mip maps for it seems every (?) texture when enabling "clamp negative lod bias".
iirc there is a option in D3D9 to automatically create mip maps for textures that don't have any.
I'll look into that :)

Wow, so Nvidia's "Negative LOD Bias" option did a lot more under the hood. Thank you very much for looking into this

Honestly I am not quite sure if it is automatically created mip map levels.
I just compared the findings of the article with your own findings of creating mip map levels yourself here.

ViNi-Arco · 2023-05-22T01:39:53Z

Honestly I am not quite sure if it is automatically created mip map levels.
I just compared the findings of the article with your own findings of creating mip map levels yourself here.

Ah yes, the Magic.TXD, but just applying mipmap even at maximum texture levels, which is what I'm using in GTA SA, doesn't totally solve the shimmering problem, the game applies a negative Lod yet:

Even with mipmap it has shimmering..

Edit: I tested it now and the d3d9.logLodBias = True with d3d9.clampNegativeLodBias = True reports a single line in GTA SA:

  info:  old lod bias: 0 new: 0

EndlesslyFlowering · 2023-05-22T02:02:27Z

looking at this article here it seems Nvidia forcefully created mip maps for it seems every (?) texture when enabling "clamp negative lod bias".
iirc there is a option in D3D9 to automatically create mip maps for textures that don't have any.
I'll look into that :)

Wow, so Nvidia's "Negative LOD Bias" option did a lot more under the hood. Thank you very much for looking into this

ok some more guesses:
the older Nvidia driver may have forced another mip map filter type. D3D9 supports quite a bit of those:

typedef enum _D3DTEXTUREFILTERTYPE {
    D3DTEXF_NONE            = 0,
    D3DTEXF_POINT           = 1,
    D3DTEXF_LINEAR          = 2,
    D3DTEXF_ANISOTROPIC     = 3,
    D3DTEXF_FLATCUBIC       = 4,
    D3DTEXF_GAUSSIANCUBIC   = 5,
    D3DTEXF_PYRAMIDALQUAD   = 6,
    D3DTEXF_GAUSSIANQUAD    = 7,
#ifndef D3D_DISABLE_9EX
    D3DTEXF_CONVOLUTIONMONO = 8,
#endif
    D3DTEXF_FORCE_DWORD     = 0x7fffffff
} D3DTEXTUREFILTERTYPE;

source

while Vulkan only supports linear and point (= nearest in Vulkan) and dxvk does too.
while cubic does also exist. it doesn't seem like Nvidia or AMD are supporting it? Maybe on linux one of them does support it (currently too lazy to check).

EndlesslyFlowering · 2023-05-22T02:03:16Z

Honestly I am not quite sure if it is automatically created mip map levels.
I just compared the findings of the article with your own findings of creating mip map levels yourself here.

Ah yes, the Magic.TXD, but just applying mipmap even at maximum texture levels, which is what I'm using in GTA SA, doesn't totally solve the shimmering problem, the game applies a negative Lod yet:

Even with mipmap it has shimmering..

Edit: The d3d9.logLodBias = True with d3d9.clampNegativeLodBias = True reports a single line in GTA SA:
  info:  old lod bias: 0 new: 0

the shimmering comes from dxvk/Vulkan only supporting nearest or linear filtering and not from the lod bias.
the best you can do is force linear filtering on everything. maybe AMD will support cubic filtering in the future.
or I am not even sure if cubic filtering will solve that, sorry :/

edit:
this should hopefully clear this up as not being a lod bias issue!

ViNi-Arco · 2023-05-22T02:44:19Z

the shimmering comes from dxvk/Vulkan only supporting nearest or linear filtering and not from the lod bias.
the best you can do is force linear filtering on everything. maybe AMD will support cubic filtering in the future.
or I am not even sure if cubic filtering will solve that, sorry :/

edit:
this should hopefully clear this up as not being a lod bias issue!

The case here with games that support mipmap is the filtering problem not just the lod itself, there are ways to force these filters on games on Linux, I will test some to see how they affect the appearance here..

ok some more guesses:
the older Nvidia driver may have forced another mip map filter type. D3D9 supports quite a bit of those:

typedef enum _D3DTEXTUREFILTERTYPE {
    D3DTEXF_NONE            = 0,
    D3DTEXF_POINT           = 1,
    D3DTEXF_LINEAR          = 2,
    D3DTEXF_ANISOTROPIC     = 3,
    D3DTEXF_FLATCUBIC       = 4,
    D3DTEXF_GAUSSIANCUBIC   = 5,
    D3DTEXF_PYRAMIDALQUAD   = 6,
    D3DTEXF_GAUSSIANQUAD    = 7,
#ifndef D3D_DISABLE_9EX
    D3DTEXF_CONVOLUTIONMONO = 8,
#endif
    D3DTEXF_FORCE_DWORD     = 0x7fffffff
} D3DTEXTUREFILTERTYPE;

What about games that don't have a mipmap or have a way to inject mipmap as is possible with Magic TXD, these filters would be the only option?

EndlesslyFlowering · 2023-05-22T03:16:47Z

the shimmering comes from dxvk/Vulkan only supporting nearest or linear filtering and not from the lod bias.
the best you can do is force linear filtering on everything. maybe AMD will support cubic filtering in the future.
or I am not even sure if cubic filtering will solve that, sorry :/
edit:
this should hopefully clear this up as not being a lod bias issue!

The case here with games that support mipmap is the filtering problem not just the lod itself, there are ways to force these filters on games on Linux, I will test some to see how they affect the appearance here..

ok some more guesses:
the older Nvidia driver may have forced another mip map filter type. D3D9 supports quite a bit of those:
typedef enum _D3DTEXTUREFILTERTYPE {
    D3DTEXF_NONE            = 0,
    D3DTEXF_POINT           = 1,
    D3DTEXF_LINEAR          = 2,
    D3DTEXF_ANISOTROPIC     = 3,
    D3DTEXF_FLATCUBIC       = 4,
    D3DTEXF_GAUSSIANCUBIC   = 5,
    D3DTEXF_PYRAMIDALQUAD   = 6,
    D3DTEXF_GAUSSIANQUAD    = 7,
#ifndef D3D_DISABLE_9EX
    D3DTEXF_CONVOLUTIONMONO = 8,
#endif
    D3DTEXF_FORCE_DWORD     = 0x7fffffff
} D3DTEXTUREFILTERTYPE;
What about games that don't have a mipmap or have a way to inject mipmap as is possible with Magic TXD, these filters would be the only option?

only 0-3 are supported in Vulkan and therefore dxvk. the others all get mapped to linear because there is no equivalent.
most games let d3d9 create the mip maps so dxvk is stuck with linear at best.
Nothing can be done from the dxvk side here!
the only way to get the old behaviour back is move to a GTX285 and use Windows it seems.

Please stop posting about this here since it has nothing to do with this PR anymore. Thank you!
we can discuss this further on the Linux Gaming Dev discord if you want.

EndlesslyFlowering · 2023-05-22T03:22:33Z

The clamp option doesn't work for me in Filter Tester, negative LOD still can be used: https://www.3dcenter.org/dateien/dateien/3DCenterFilterTesterSetup%201.1.exe

It's D3D10 32 bit and you need a Wine version with Vulkan child window support. d3d11.samplerLodBias = -2 works. I also tested d3d9.samplerLodBias = -1.5 in Mirror's Edge and that worked too.

Perhaps it would also be possible to offer more control for the clamp: d3d11/9.clampLodBias = positive/negative/both ?

I am not sure if clamping a positive lod bias makes sense since you would get shimmering on those textures then.

the lod bias option seems to make the most sense with older games at higher resolutions.

I am not sure if clamping the negative lod bias was ever something that brought a positive outcome unless for that NV driver hack.

I will convert this to a draft and get some more opinions to see what is the best to do here :)

aufkrawall · 2023-05-22T13:08:37Z

Perhaps only c0ed265 can be merged in the meantime? It makes sense to set a negative LOD bias with d3d9.forceSampleRateShading , as SSAA avoids the shimmering.

pchome · 2023-05-22T15:45:47Z

I noticed there is Fetch4 hack which relay on lod bias value, worth to check if it will not break with d3d9.samplerLodBias
https://github.com/doitsujin/dxvk/search?q=D3DSAMP_MIPMAPLODBIAS

EndlesslyFlowering · 2023-05-24T19:34:15Z

I noticed there is Fetch4 hack which relay on lod bias value, worth to check if it will not break with d3d9.samplerLodBias https://github.com/doitsujin/dxvk/search?q=D3DSAMP_MIPMAPLODBIAS

as I understand the code this should not cause any issues with this PR.

the only thing I could maybe do is only apply the lod bias on linear filtered textures like it's done in d3d11 as fetch4 checks if the texture magFilter is point

edit:
also after thinking about the PR some more:
I am going to leave it as is. If there is a d3d9/d3d11 game with negative LOD bias you can now clamp it.
and the lod bias obviously is a nice addition.

EndlesslyFlowering · 2023-05-26T00:00:08Z

nothing really changed with 51cb45c except to match the styling of everything else

EndlesslyFlowering · 2023-06-14T15:36:17Z

all the merge issues are resolved :)

ViNi-Arco · 2023-06-14T19:42:57Z

Thank you very much @EndlesslyFlowering @Kaldaien I wish you all the best

EndlesslyFlowering force-pushed the lod-stuff branch from 3569dc5 to 28dd16f Compare May 20, 2023 19:03

Joshua-Ashton approved these changes May 21, 2023

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EndlesslyFlowering marked this pull request as draft May 22, 2023 03:22

EndlesslyFlowering force-pushed the lod-stuff branch from 28dd16f to 51cb45c Compare May 22, 2023 14:29

EndlesslyFlowering marked this pull request as ready for review May 25, 2023 23:58

EndlesslyFlowering force-pushed the lod-stuff branch from 51cb45c to 6cf9bed Compare June 14, 2023 15:11

EndlesslyFlowering added 3 commits June 14, 2023 17:17

[d3d9] implement 'samplerLodBias' as a conf option

2a3fa4f

[d3d9] implement 'clampNegativeLodBias' as a conf option

d98faa4

[d3d11] implement 'clampNegativeLodBias' as a conf option

4e5238e

EndlesslyFlowering force-pushed the lod-stuff branch from 6cf9bed to 4e5238e Compare June 14, 2023 15:35

Joshua-Ashton merged commit bd575a4 into doitsujin:master Jun 14, 2023
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[d3d9/d3d11] add samplerLodBias to d3d9 and clampNegativeLodBias for both d3d9 and d3d11 #3435

[d3d9/d3d11] add samplerLodBias to d3d9 and clampNegativeLodBias for both d3d9 and d3d11 #3435

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[d3d9/d3d11] add samplerLodBias to d3d9 and clampNegativeLodBias for both d3d9 and d3d11 #3435

[d3d9/d3d11] add samplerLodBias to d3d9 and clampNegativeLodBias for both d3d9 and d3d11 #3435

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