Bactrian unlock mission

[Amazinite]

Given that the Bactrian description has mention of a license that does not exist, I thought I'd go ahead and make a little mission string for one.

The mission only offers to you after you have already done a few of the humanitarian focused transport missions, including things like terraforming Rand, rescuing miners on Syndicate worlds, and bringing humanitarian aid to pirate planets.

From there, you may be approached by two Deep Security soldiers (proper term?) on any Deep world who tell you of an exploration mission to the Wolf-Rayet star in Gorvi gone wrong. You're then taken on a journey to find where the Star Queen that was transporting the scientists who would have studied the star went, eventually finding it to be on Arneb. You, along with a few D.S and R.N ships, then go on a rescure mission to retreive the Star Queen and return it to Valhalla. Once you secure the vessel, the Corvette you were escorting to Haven gets destroyed and you have to quickly launch, only to find a pirate Bactrian in orbit. You're then given a decision to leave the system and make sure the Star Queen gets back to the Deep saftly, or take on the Bactrian and risk the Star Queen getting blasted. Should you go to the Deep right away, the Deep Security officer with you tells you to go back to Arneb and take it down, giving you a city-ship license when you return. If you had already destroyed it then you will receive the license right when you land.

Feedback much appreciated. 👍

Fixed up with lots of help from @tehhowch

[Lorantine]

you sure you actually want it to have "decline" instead of "defer"? if you even accidently click the 2nd option or think it's funny to bully the man by lying you lose your only chance to get the license
the mission itself isn't something that can be defered but ya don't know what the mission is if ya "decline" at the start

[MessyMix]

Let me also point out that the Kestrel's first "no" option is also a defer.

[Amazinite]

I'll need to rewrite this part then because it doesn't make sense for him to show up multiple times and continually ask if you're the same person.

[ReimeiSky]

Try this (I've done it before):
You decline him the first time.
He takes it as a joke.
You decline him again.
Done.

[Amazinite]

Is it really necessary to have this be deferrable? Doesn't really make sense to me to have him find you, you defer, then he finds you again like a month later and the Star Queen is still out there. XD

And @KiLEdEnNis maybe those who bully don't deserve a Bactrian. :3

[EndrosG]

@Amazinite : can be solved by adding a deadline upon defer (e.g. event "Bactrian unlock timeout" 2) and adding this into the to offer with a has not event...
In this case, the player could only return the next day (but not the 2nd next day, since the event would be active by then).
But hey... the entire story does not have any deadlines yet, so who cares if you defer for 30 days? And: that Star Queen is there, 1 month later.

You start in the Deep. Let's take Valhalla for simplicity.
Distance to Betelgeuse, first Waypoint: 9 Hyperdrive jumps, or 6 jumps with Jump Drive.
You do not proceed to Arneb and do not locate it directly (would be 6 more jumps) but instead you return directly to:
Valhalla. Another 9 (or 6) jumps.
Landing. +1 day, picking up the Faraday escort.
Next stopovers: Memory and Farpoint.
Memory: 2 jumps from Valhalla. +1 day for landing.
Farpoint: 9 (or 6) jumps from Memory. +1 day for landing.
Proceed to Haven: 4 jumps from Farpoint. +1 day for landing.
You got her - now just return at any slow speed with as many stopovers as you want, just dont get killed. Using regular Jumpdrives you have already spent 5 weeks until you and the Corvette arrive at Haven and can secure here. No wonder that many people died before you could rescue them.

[Lorantine]

double usage of "just" in 1 sentence reads a bit weird, ya might wanna rephrase it (or remove the first "just")

also:
"The pirates then... We then lost..." too much "then" also reads a bit weird, maybe rephrase 1 of the 2 sentences

[DingusShingleton]

"We need you to find a Star Queen that recently went missing in the Far North region and return to once you have located it. Aboard this Star Queen was a number of top scientists intending to do research on the Wolf-Rayet star in Gorvi. Very little is known about this star, due to its proximity to the northern anarchist worlds."`

"We received word just yesterday that directly after the ship refueled on Prime, a large pirate fleet entered the system." He chokes up a bit. "The Star Queen's escorts were destroyed, to a man. The pirates then boarded and took control of the Star Queen, and at that point, we lost all connection to it. We have no idea where it went from there." He takes a moment to collect himself after telling you the situation.`

[Lorantine]

"there may be more reward" is that right? not sure
I think it's at least "there may be more of a reward" or "there may be more rewards" (plural reward)

[ReimeiSky]

It's already pretty awkward as a statement.
Your suggestions do not make it better.

[Lorantine]

"on board that Star Queen" not sure but I think that ain't right
I think it should be something like "aboard that Star Queen" or "on board of that Star Queen"

[ReimeiSky]

Original or first suggestion would work. I personally prefer the first suggestion.

[DingusShingleton]

The man pauses before answering you, as if trying to choose his words carefully. "I personally know many of the scientists on that Star Queen, and I just know that someone's going to wind up dead in this situation. It isn't every day that someone you know is captured by pirates... This whole thing is just stressful for me."`"

[Lorantine]

"if someone like you can find the Star Queen fast" fast = quickly?

[ReimeiSky]

but seeing as how they were we need someone...

It looked weird to me when I read this line the first time, before I realized that it was talking about how the escorts were destroyed.
Try something like

but seeing as how they were overwhelmed we need someone...

[MessyMix]

but seeing how quickly they were overwhelmed

and yes, I agree with Kile. Fast --> Quickly.

[Lorantine]

here and line 115, shouldn't north be North?

[ReimeiSky]

Depends if it is talking about north as a direction, or the Far North as a [position, location].

[Lorantine]

I think directions are always capitalized though
maybe just in my country
maybe not there but I taught myself to
if ya think it's fine then I'll go w/ that

[Amazinite]

You've said this a few times before (about cardinal directions), but the main thing would be this: do you have any examples from the game?

Edit: Right as is..

[Lorantine]

"Navy capital ships" seems a bit weird to me
I think it should be capital Navy ships?

[ReimeiSky]

Fine as is.

Try "Navy flagship".

[tehhowch]

Some other possibilities for this bit:

• "... a number of well-armed Navy ships, ..."
• "... a number of heavily-armed Navy ships, ..."
• "... several Navy Cruisers, ..." (or other ship models as appropriate).

[Amazinite]

The language of "capital ships" is used a few times in the story to pretty much refer to any warship bigger than a Leviathan. "Navy capital ships" is just shorthand for Navy Cruisers and Carriers.

[Lorantine]

"the farthest places" also not sure if that's right, maybe it's furthest, but I'm really not sure
"as those are the furthest from anyone willing..."?

[tehhowch]

Further & farther are generally interchangeable. Farther has historical usage when referring to distances.
"... those systems are the farthest from anyone looking to find or rescue the ship."

[Amazinite]

Many people use “further” and “farther” interchangeable, but, in fact, they mean slightly different things. “Farther” refers to a physical distance, while “further” refers to a figurative distance Muh Google citation

[Lorantine]

"the man stops talking with someone" maybe make it "the man stops talking when he sees you and says"?

[Wrzlprnft]

yeah, the "with someone" is too... unspecific. either say something like "with one of the soldiers" or cut it out like kiledennis suggested.

[Lorantine]

"that you saw over the planet" *that you saw near the planet?
same w/ line 161

[Lorantine]

dang I'm nitpicky
"Sir yes sir!" > "Sir, yes sir!"?

[ReimeiSky]

"Sir, yes, sir!"

[Lorantine]

I'd (or I would) personally use "I would" here, especially since the other option uses that as well, so at least both options "fit in" together

[Lorantine]

"then puts the device back on his wasit" what's a wasit? and whatever it is, shouldn't he put it IN his wasit?

[Wrzlprnft]

waist. like, on the belt or something.

[Lorantine]

in that case; typo?

[Wrzlprnft]

yup

[Wrzlprnft]

“to full“ sounds weird to me. my brain goes like “to full what?“

[Lorantine]

plus it may read as a typo for "too full"

[Wrzlprnft]

that does make even less sense to me.

[jafdy]

"up to full power"

[tehhowch]

"Full" here probably comes from naval language: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_order_telegraph

My take: "You power up your engines and join them in space."

[Lorantine]

"with it intact" sounds wrong to me
maybe make it "...return safely to < destination > with it."?

[tehhowch]

"with it intact" is OK. Some alternatives could be

• "..., escort it safely to <destination>."
• "..., return it to <destination> intact."
• "..., ensure its survival en route to <destination>"

[Zireael07]

I'd go with "with the ship intact".

[MessyMix]

"escort it safely to ". Definitely that option.

[Lorantine]

"the hangar doors open and out rolls the Star Queen"
maybe rephrase it and replace the "and out rolls" part

[Wrzlprnft]

maybe replace "rolls" with "hovers", but if it fits lorewise, i'd keep the rolls.

[Lorantine]

also, it says at least 4 dozen (48) armed soldiers run out of the Corvette, but a Corvette has 32 bunks
why did you use a Corvette and not a Mule in the first place? a Mule has way more bunks

[jafdy]

could go with two dozen people (24+8 support).

[tehhowch]

... the hangar doors open and reveal the still-intact Star Queen.
... the hangar doors open and reveal the Star Queen, still intact.

[Amazinite]

If you know anyone from the (U.S.) military, then you know that soldiers can pack themselves tight and learn to be comfortable with it. :)

[Lorantine]

maybe remove "a lot" here?

[Lorantine]

"Completely destroy it" seems weird: you can't partially destroy it, so maybe make it "Destroy it"?

[tehhowch]

"Obliterate" and "Neutralize" are fun words too.

[Lorantine]

irrelevant, and destroy sounds best
obliterate is too "much", & neutralize doesn't mean destroy, just incapacitate it (I think)

[tehhowch]

Given that the existing Bounty Hunting jobs use "Destroy", go with that.

[ReimeiSky]

Try "eliminate"?

[Lorantine]

forgot the . at the end

[Lorantine]

"I think it's only fair that you be able to"
*that you [will/would] be able to?

[Amazinite]

This is the same type of language as "Alondo thought it likely that..."
Correct as is.

[ReimeiSky]

"Sarah, Nicole, Abby..." the list of names goes on for about two dozen more, most of which female sounding.

"...most of which sound like females." or "...most of which sound female" would work better.

[MessyMix]

Overall great work; some minor issues here and there, though.

[MessyMix]

There should be a comma after "yes", which is an interjection.
http://www.grammar-monster.com/lessons/commas_after_interjections.htm

Or, you could just replace it and say, "Yes. Is there something that you need?"

(the "that" also makes it sound more natural.)

[DingusShingleton]

"Yes. Do you need something?"

[Amazinite]

It's not being used as an interjection.

[MessyMix]

It is, though.

"I am" means "I am <first> <last>," which makes the "yes" either an introductory clause or an interjection, both of which would require a comma. i.e. "Yes, I am <first> <last>".

[Pointedstick]

This is fine as is.

[MessyMix]

@Pointedstick I disagree, and I provided evidence. Your saying that it's "fine as is" is unhelpful. If it is fine, why? I think what I suggested is clearly an improvement over the current one.

[Amazinite]

How is it really? People are going to read it the same way, and there are at least 3 PR's I can recall where people do changes where they add or remove "technically correct" commas and it just gets left to gather dust.

[MessyMix]

@Amazinite and it's a shame that those "technically correct" PRs are just left there unless they detract from the game's text in any way! I think that just for the sake of correctness, if anything, the changes should be made unless they are MZ's stylistic choices. This, after all, is a published game, and it would only be appropriate for the grammar to be correct.

I really don't see why you are so averse to making this change. Does it detract from the meaning of the sentence? I don't think so. Would it improve the grammatical accuracy of the text? Yes. So, why not?

Just my two cents.

[MessyMix]

"Hello. Are you <first> <last>?"
"Yes. Is there something that you need?"
"Good, because we were wondering..."

Not coherent. Realize that the player asks a question, and the other person says "Good" straight after. That wouldn't happen in a normal conversation. I would just remove the "Good, because".

[ReimeiSky]

eh, depends on who you're talking to.
The "good" part would be a response to the "yes", affirming that the player is <first> <last>.

[MessyMix]

Idk. I think it would feel more natural if you removed the "Good, because". It's not like it contributes anything to the conversation; when you say "yes" you already establish that you are <first> <last>. It doesn't make much difference, if Derpy's really stubborn he could keep it, but it doesn't really serve any purpose there.

[MessyMix]

For sake of concision (or conciseness, however you want to spell it), I would remove "After mentioning the record they have on you."

"We have a record of you having assisted...."
After mentioning the record they have on you, the woman pulls out...
vs.
"We have a record of you having assisted..."
The woman pulls out a tablet of some sort and begins reading from it. "Helping to terraform Rand..."

The phrase "after mentioning" is superfluous in this case.

[MessyMix]

"Wait, you have a record on me?"
"The Deep keeps a record on a lot of things [...]"
The man begins to tell you the mission.

That last sentence is out of place. I would just remove it and goto mission. Also, if you choose to keep it, it would make more sense if it were "the man begins to tell you [of, about] the mission."

[Amazinite]

Leaving it as just goto mission skipped over it because there was no previous quotation to it, and leaving blank backticks puts a random space in the conversation.

[MessyMix]

lolrip clicked "submit" too early

also, I haven't finished looking at the whole thing; I only got through about 100 lines.

[MessyMix]

"We then lost all connection to the vessel, as we have no idea where it could have gone from there."

That isn't logically coherent. That they had "no idea where it could have gone" doesn't lead to their losing "all connection" to the Star Queen.

It shouldn't be an "as"; it should be a "so".

[MessyMix]

but seeing how quickly they were overwhelmed

and yes, I agree with Kile. Fast --> Quickly.

[Lorantine]

great work btw, once ya fixed all these thingies it'd look good enough to me to merge

[Tadrix]

@Amazinite Then what are militiamen doing on Deep space stations? According to lore, in human space Deep is closest to what you would call a "pirate-free region".

HumanSpace:

You know that the Deep is the safest and most advanced region of human space, and have little desire to live elsewhere.

So it would be weird the description mentions Navy crews and militia members (why there would be merchant militia in relatively pirate-free region?), but omits DSF. Unless DSF = militia.

Furthermore, the term "militia" suits DSF quite well, seeing as it is regional homeland security and cannot be called upon by the Republic to take part in offensive operations.

We could ask @endless-sky himself to clarify this.

[MessyMix]

I would move the ship definition to bactrian.txt, just as how the Kestrel is only defined in it's unique file.

Also, 200 comments? :P

[EndrosG]

@Amazinite : "This branch has conflicts that must be resolved" - would you take care of that?

[Amazinite]

I'm coming back to ES after an extended break of rarely checking up on it, so I'll look through my PRs to check for any conflicts later today.

[Amazinite]

Fixed the conflict and moved the Bactrian to bactrian.txt per @MessyMix's idea.

[Amazinite]

Any lingering feedback that I didn't hit on?

[ReimeiSky]

which the Deep Security will undoubtedly have.

This still bothers me.

[Amazinite]

You still bother me.
15974a2

[ReimeiSky]

I'm not exactly pleased, but it's better than the first version, at least.

And, for the record, I identify as an ant, not as a frog.

[Amazinite]

The more I look over my own writing, the more I don't like it. I'm probably going to do a rewrite of this, mainly focusing on a few parts (mostly the characterization of the Lieutenant and a few premises of the string itself).

Any critiques of the mission string as is that I should touch on? My current critique would be the to offer conditions; there's really no indication that doing all those missions would unlock the Bactrian, and if the player chooses to decline even one then they're instantly locked out of the Bactrian. Given that, I might change what it takes to be offered the quest, but whatever its changed to should be equally or about as challenging to accomplish (and less unforgiving). Any suggestions on that front?

As for some other premises, I was asked if Paris is suppose to be a Beta given his reaction to the deaths. That wasn't my original intention, but the way it's written then he may very well be one. But on that point, it seems like too obvious a conclusion that he could be a Beta (and that the Alphas are behind this kidnapping) even though that isn't what is stated. I'm going to rewrite parts refering to him because of this, and also change up the way the casualties are described. Although I won't completely close the possibility of Paris being a Beta or the kidnappers working with Alphas just because that could allow for some interesting storylines in the future (it just won't seem like so simple a conclusion that Betas and Alphas are involved).

There's also been a lack of word from @endless-sky himself. I hate to bug you, but I think some direction in a situation like this is needed. Do you like the general idea of the Bactrian being license-locked at the beginning of the game, or should we just change the Bactrian description so that there isn't a content hole caused by it? And if a license on the Bactrian sounds like a good idea, how is the general premise of this mission string? i.e. helping out Deep Security in some way and being rewarded with access to the Bactrian. (This situation also expands upon the Deep Security itself, since while they have fleets, they're never mentioned in-game aside from Edrick saying that the Deep has been allowed to police itself, unless we include the Deep Archaeology mission where we get chased by some Deep government ships. Related: #2326)

[tehhowch]

I think a longer, more expansive mission string (spanning several game months), with a lower bar to entry is a good start. No need to throw away the work already done here - it can be a part of the final product (with obvious changes to dialogue that reflect its new role).

…

On Jul 29, 2017 10:19 PM, "Amazinite" ***@***.***> wrote: The more I look over my own writing, the more I don't like it. I'm probably going to do a rewrite of this, mainly focusing on a few parts (mostly the characterization of the Lieutenant and a few premises of the string itself). Any critiques of the mission string as is that I should touch on? My current critique would be the to offer conditions; there's really no indication that doing all those missions would unlock the Bactrian, and if the player chooses to decline even one then they're instantly locked out of the Bactrian. Given that, I might change what it takes to be offered the quest, but whatever its changed to should be equally or about as challenging to accomplish (and less unforgiving). Any suggestions on that front? As for some other premises, I was asked if Paris is suppose to be a Beta given his reaction to the deaths. That wasn't my original intention, but the way it's written then he may very well be one. But on that point, it seems like too obvious a conclusion that he could be a Beta (and that the Alphas are behind this kidnapping) even though that isn't what is stated. I'm going to rewrite parts refering to him because of this, and also change up the way the casualties are described. Although I won't completely close the possibility of Paris being a Beta or the kidnappers working with Alphas just because that could allow for some interesting storylines in the future. There's also been a lack of word from @endless-sky <https://github.com/endless-sky> himself. I hate to bug you, but I think some direction in a situation like this is needed. Do you like the general idea of the Bactrian being license-locked at the beginning of the game, or should we just change the Bactrian description so that there isn't a content hole caused by it? And if a license on the Bactrian sounds like a good idea, how is the general premise of this mission string? i.e. helping out Deep Security in some way and being rewarded with access to the Bactrian. (This situation also expands upon the Deep Security itself, since while they have ships in game, they're never mentioned in-game aside from Edrick saying that the Deep has been allowed to police itself, unless we include the Deep Archaeology mission where we get chased by some Deep government ships. Related: #2326 <#2326>) — You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#2347 (comment)>, or mute the thread <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AT54srkQVSvPCogoE8dxhK7T2HdJvviYks5sS_ZUgaJpZM4MxCo2> .

[Amazinite]

I'd be on-board with that as well, but I'd probably want a few other people to work on it w/ me then (since I'm already wrapped up in two other big projects at the moment).

Would we want one long string (a la the Archaeology/TMBR string) or multiple smaller strings (a la FW intro minus FW Katya) in order to obtain the license?

[tehhowch]

I think similar to FW start. 1) "Odd jobs" for the Deep for a bit (mysterious package deliveries, star research escort?). 2) after a number of generic Deep-centric entry level jobs have been done, some more in depth stuff, like unique bounty missions. 3) ever- increasing requirements for the generic Deep jobs, so players can't just stop helping out normal citizens of the Deep 4) Gate developments on some main plot events, such as the catalytic ramscoop availability, TMBR visits the Deep, etc

…

On Jul 29, 2017 10:27 PM, "Amazinite" ***@***.***> wrote: I'd be on-board with that as well, but I'd probably want a few other people to work on it w/ me then (since I'm already wrapped up in two other big projects at the moment). Would we want one long string (a la the Archaeology/TMBR string) or multiple smaller strings (a la FW intro) in order to obtain the license? — You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#2347 (comment)>, or mute the thread <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AT54shBb9fss5kYRZf6aqvuU9Ck-WaTKks5sS_gDgaJpZM4MxCo2> .

[MessyMix]

@Amazinite, I'd be happy to work on the conversations. Let's take it to the Discord with teh. :)

In terms of mission strings, I think it would be best if it were like FW start, as @tehhowch mentioned. There are some good ideas there too. :)

[jafdy]

Intro style missions would also allow the player to ignore some missions without becoming locked out.

[Amazinite]

@Pointedstick one of the mission strings we're talking about is expanding the in-game lore on the mysterious cubes. So far I've deduced that these cubes are some sort of recording device given their striking similarity to the sensor cubes we're given in Alpha Surveillance. This would also explain the bounty hunter fleet chasing the player; the bounty hunters are paid to take down merchants who are placing these devices so that they are unable to record fleet movements in the system they are placed in, perhaps most notably pirate fleet movements that Deep Security would use to police the region, or maybe give the information on pirate fleet movements to the Navy for them to use. The only thing that confuses me is why the bounty hunters are set to disable the player while also not plundering, which makes me think that the cubes could be recording something other than pirate fleet movements.

Given that you're the one who wrote those jobs, is there any insight that you have on the situation?

[Pointedstick]

So cool that you're running with this! I left the cubes deliberately vague, to go along with the Deep's mysterious theme. If the bounty hunters' disables-but-doesn't-plunder behavior seems weird, feel free to change it.

[Amazinite]

Probably will-do then. :)

[Amazinite]

Closing this PR as I've moved all the content to another branch.

[Amazinite]

Doing work on this branch.
@tehhowch also made a PR here for the sake of easy feedback.
So far I've finished a string called Deep: Remnant (a dangerous topic, but I felt like tackling it to see what I could do), done in these two commits here and here, or you can just check out the whole file in all its glory here, where I include a ton of notes on what I'm planning. Please post any feedback on the linked PR.