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[Comms] Goerli Testnet Community Call #6 #129

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q9f opened this issue Oct 25, 2022 · 9 comments
Closed

[Comms] Goerli Testnet Community Call #6 #129

q9f opened this issue Oct 25, 2022 · 9 comments

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@q9f
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q9f commented Oct 25, 2022

Goerli Testnet Community Call #6

Date / Time

Agenda

All developers, contributors, and volunteers are invited.

@ligi
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ligi commented Oct 25, 2022

ICS for convenient calendar adding (less convenient as a ZIP as github does not allow ICS directly here)

goerli-testnet-community-call-6.zip

@edidoo
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edidoo commented Oct 28, 2022

Would be very glad to join in and share some insights and possible ideas on the way forward to ease this crunch. I have been greatly impacted with more headaches on getting ample quantities of GoETH for my team to execute tests. Hopefully there is a good solution to this ASAP along with a couple of issues reported pertaining to the goerli network.

@taxmeifyoucan
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taxmeifyoucan commented Oct 31, 2022

I probably won't be able to make the call as it overlaps with EPF call.
I'd like to share my insight on options of an emphemeral testnet for stakers - https://notes.ethereum.org/@mario-havel/stakers-testnet. It is not silver bullet solution but might help a lot in the long term

@q9f
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q9f commented Nov 1, 2022

snip

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@q9f
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q9f commented Nov 1, 2022

snip

@q9f
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q9f commented Nov 1, 2022

thanks, everyone for attending and chiming in and sorry for the jitsi issues.

rough meeting minutes (nov/01/2022)

problem statement
  • huge demand for goerli ether due to testing staker setups (32 ether for each validator)
  • after testnet deprecation earlier this year, a lot of projects migrate to goerli instead of sepolia
  • faucets getting drained or hacked rendering the network unusable for many developers
  • goerli ether being traded otc does make it easier to buy them even though they are free
  • current situation breaks down into two problems
    • stakers have no easy way to test staking
    • developers actually pay money to test their applications
discussion of protocol changes
  • custom protocols for testnets have been an issue in the past (see: morden consensus failure)
  • execution-layer teams are not willing to support a testnet-only fork or custom protocol
  • there might be a chance to utilize upcoming withdrawals in capella fork on the consensus-layer side
application-layer point of view
  • need long-term guarantees for testnets
  • the migration from kovan/rinkeby to goerli was very short notice for many projects
  • migration for larger projects is often very involved
  • maintaining support for more than one testnet binds a lot of resources
  • currently huge demand on goerli, the base fee is around 30 gwei (similar levels to mainnet)
  • inflating the supply might also increase the base fee
proposal to have a "release and support schedule" for testnets
  • launch new testnet every 2 or 3 years, pre-announce and "end-of-life date" (5 years lifetime? tbd)
    • goerli end of life: 2024?
    • sepolia end of life: 2026?
    • sepolia would be the right place to migrate/test applications
    • sepolia is permissionless, has better stability guarantees, and better total supply
  • 5-years testnet long-term support seems reasonable but for goerli this is still too short notice
    • many projects are migrating to goerli instead of sepolia as we speak
    • missed opportunity prior to the merge to communicate clearly the expectations for the testnets
  • benefits: gives projects long-term guarantees for operation and planning capabilities for future migrations
  • open question: is there a benefit for applications to run on permissionless networks (concerns about the permissioned nature of sepolia)?
  • open question: if goerli is deprecated, where to test large validator sets for consensus-layer teams?
    • in general, need to discuss the different needs of application and protocol developers
    • there is always a need for a ropsten-like testnet
  • action item: work out and present a testnet release and support schedule; discuss with community stakeholders
ephemeral testnet for stakers

please correct me if I got something wrong or forgot an aspect

@q9f q9f closed this as completed Nov 1, 2022
@chrishobcroft
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On a related note: ethereum/ethereum-org-website#8481

@shaghil65
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Kindly send me 320 goerli eth for testing the transaction as I am unable to get free ether.
0x47574F2a8e75cd7942763F1caFF9FAf2473fcC0c

@MirajSharif
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Please send me 50 Goerli eth for tenting the transaction.
0x55390753c9447820C020bE251ecE958c26BFa570

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8 participants
@ligi @chrishobcroft @q9f @taxmeifyoucan @shaghil65 @edidoo @MirajSharif and others