[Comms] Goerli Testnet Community Call #6

[q9f]

Goerli Testnet Community Call #6

Date / Time

• Tuesday, November 1st, 2022, 3 pm UTC
• Jitsi: snip
• Discussion: https://ethereum-magicians.org/t/testnet-workgroup-paths-out-of-the-goerli-supply-mess/11453
• Meeting minutes: [Comms] Goerli Testnet Community Call #6 #129 (comment)

Agenda

• Post-merge testnet situation: Ropsten, Goerli, Sepolia
  • context: https://ethereum-magicians.org/t/og-council-post-merge-testnets/9034
  • context: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UtcvVve32A
• Goerli testnet supply issue
  • issue: Goerli OTC trading
  • issue: faucet hacking/draining
  • issue: huge GoETH demand to test staking setup
  • consequence: stopped handing out goerli ether
• Potential paths going forward
  • custom testnet protocol
    • GöeIP-001: Set Balance of 0x552fCB6425a1eD22696c967E741C3bC49c52c338 to Ninety-two Quintillion Ether #97
    • GöeIP-0002: Set Validator-Balances to Ninety-two Quintillion Ether #101
    • withdrawals? WITHDRAWAL_BOOST_FACTOR idea by @parithosh
  • new ephemeral testnet
    • Holešovice idea
    • reset every X months on a given date
    • needs commitment by client teams and infrastructure providers
    • testnet for stakers by @taxmeifyoucan
      • https://notes.ethereum.org/@mario-havel/stakers-testnet
• preserve state in a regenesis event
  • precedence? feasibility?

All developers, contributors, and volunteers are invited.

[ligi]

ICS for convenient calendar adding (less convenient as a ZIP as github does not allow ICS directly here)

goerli-testnet-community-call-6.zip

[edidoo]

Would be very glad to join in and share some insights and possible ideas on the way forward to ease this crunch. I have been greatly impacted with more headaches on getting ample quantities of GoETH for my team to execute tests. Hopefully there is a good solution to this ASAP along with a couple of issues reported pertaining to the goerli network.

[taxmeifyoucan]

I probably won't be able to make the call as it overlaps with EPF call.
I'd like to share my insight on options of an emphemeral testnet for stakers - https://notes.ethereum.org/@mario-havel/stakers-testnet. It is not silver bullet solution but might help a lot in the long term

[q9f]

snip

[q9f]

snip

[q9f]

thanks, everyone for attending and chiming in and sorry for the jitsi issues.

rough meeting minutes (nov/01/2022)

problem statement

• huge demand for goerli ether due to testing staker setups (32 ether for each validator)
• after testnet deprecation earlier this year, a lot of projects migrate to goerli instead of sepolia
• faucets getting drained or hacked rendering the network unusable for many developers
• goerli ether being traded otc does make it easier to buy them even though they are free
• current situation breaks down into two problems
  • stakers have no easy way to test staking
  • developers actually pay money to test their applications

discussion of protocol changes

• custom protocols for testnets have been an issue in the past (see: morden consensus failure)
• execution-layer teams are not willing to support a testnet-only fork or custom protocol
• there might be a chance to utilize upcoming withdrawals in capella fork on the consensus-layer side
  • add a constant that introduces a withdrawal boost factor that is "1" on all networks
  • but can be tweaked for testing or testnet environments (here: goerli)
  • benefit: trivial to implement (one constant, one multiplier)
    • capella: add withdrawal boost factor constant ethereum/consensus-specs#3073
  • potential drawbacks: people abusing the queues to deposit and exit the validator set to farm more goerli
  • at least this would reduce pressure on faucets
  • another caveat: make sure to not hit the max integer value on any account any time soon
  • action item: simulate deposits/withdrawals and come up with a good number for goerli to extend life for at least 2 years
    • simulate deposits/withdrawals under constraints of prater with various withdrawal boost factor #135

application-layer point of view

• need long-term guarantees for testnets
• the migration from kovan/rinkeby to goerli was very short notice for many projects
• migration for larger projects is often very involved
• maintaining support for more than one testnet binds a lot of resources
• currently huge demand on goerli, the base fee is around 30 gwei (similar levels to mainnet)
• inflating the supply might also increase the base fee

proposal to have a "release and support schedule" for testnets

• launch new testnet every 2 or 3 years, pre-announce and "end-of-life date" (5 years lifetime? tbd)
  • goerli end of life: 2024?
  • sepolia end of life: 2026?
  • sepolia would be the right place to migrate/test applications
  • sepolia is permissionless, has better stability guarantees, and better total supply
• 5-years testnet long-term support seems reasonable but for goerli this is still too short notice
  • many projects are migrating to goerli instead of sepolia as we speak
  • missed opportunity prior to the merge to communicate clearly the expectations for the testnets
• benefits: gives projects long-term guarantees for operation and planning capabilities for future migrations
• open question: is there a benefit for applications to run on permissionless networks (concerns about the permissioned nature of sepolia)?
• open question: if goerli is deprecated, where to test large validator sets for consensus-layer teams?
  • in general, need to discuss the different needs of application and protocol developers
  • there is always a need for a ropsten-like testnet
• action item: work out and present a testnet release and support schedule; discuss with community stakeholders
  • testnet release and support schedule #136

ephemeral testnet for stakers

• mario worked out a proposal
  • https://notes.ethereum.org/@mario-havel/stakers-testnet
• action item: refine this with the home-staker community and map out a launch and maintenance plan

please correct me if I got something wrong or forgot an aspect

[chrishobcroft]

On a related note: ethereum/ethereum-org-website#8481