F2V, FTN, and Q2V

[JoshJetto]

My first proposal here is that we eliminate these as a question type. My anecdotal experience as a quizmaster indicates to me that a high number of these types of questions (relative to single FTV, FT, and Q) come up in quizzes, and they are more often answered incorrectly at the District level. They are also I think more often answered incorrectly at the International level. Also, as I perused the question database to make lists for our International Team, I noticed that there is no overlap between questions that are asked as Quotes and questions that become Q2V. This tells me that likely we are missing some good single verse Quote questions that are getting subsumed into Q2V questions. Aside from this, I don't like these multiple verse, word-perfect questions as question types - and they are a relatively new development in the history of quizzing. I would shed no tears to see them go in the bin of 'we tried it, and we decided not to keep doing it.'

My compromise proposal (in case there are many who really like these question types) would be this: I think that we should increase the amount of time in the Question Answering Period for these questions to at least 45 seconds and possibly 60 seconds. My rationale for this would be that often these sections are so long that if an error is made the first time quoting through them, the quizzer doesn't have time to go back and fully quote through the verses a second time in order to correct their error. Many quiz boxes are already equipped with 45 and 60 second timers, and I'm guessing that CBQZ could be programmed to automatically have a longer timer for these question types.

But if the compromise proposal is too complicated, I'm good with axing the F2V, FTN, and Q2Vs altogether.

[kclimenhaga]

I am strongly opposed to getting rid of these question types. I agree that they are probably over-used in some question sets, but there are enough verses that make excellent Q2 and terrible Q questions that I think it is important to keep them. The best example is probably Galatians 5:22-23 (Fruit of the Spirit), but there are other verses that start and end mid-thought, and I don't want to see them only used as INT type questions.

In terms of changing the time limit for these questions, I am less strongly opposed, but still incline to leave it as is. Partly it is because of the complications this would create (not all quiz equipment has a 45 second timer, and I think 60 seconds is too long), but also because there are other long questions (some Q questions are very long, and many SITs are). I agree that Q2/F2V questions are harder than Q/FTV, but I don't think it is a bad thing to have some harder questions. We could consider language specifying the maximum length of a Q2 or F2V question; my suggestion would be to find the longest single verse in the quizzing material and say that a Q2 or F2V cannot be longer than that verse (or round up to the nearest 5/10 words).

In terms of there being no overlap between Q and Q2 questions, I think that is a weakness of your question set rather than a problem with the rule book. Certainly when I write questions, there is overlap between the two, for two reasons. Some sets of two verses have one verse that stands on its own, and a second verse that does not stand on its own, so I ask both questions. For example, Ephesians 6:7-8
7 Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people,
8 because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.

Verse 7 stands on its own, but verse 8 does not. I would include 6:7 as a Q and 6:7-8 as a Q2.

The second reason is that there are some verses that I want to have show up more times in the question file. For example, Romans 10:9-10:
9 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

Each of these verses does stand on its own, but they are also very key verses, and I would like to see them appear more times in quizzes, so I would ask each of them as a Q and both together as a Q2.

As a different compromise: Could we say that there will be a maximum of one Q2, F2V, or FTN question per quiz?

[JoshJetto]

I am good with the max of 1 compromise. The question set weakness is in the District set that forms 2/3 of the International set, so I would surmise that the International set follows the same pattern. Josh

…

On Sat, Jun 3, 2023, 10:50 AM kclimenhaga ***@***.***> wrote: I am strongly opposed to getting rid of these question types. I agree that they are probably over-used in some question sets, but there are enough verses that make excellent Q2 and terrible Q questions that I think it is important to keep them. The best example is probably Galatians 5:22-23 (Fruit of the Spirit), but there are other verses that start and end mid-thought, and I don't want to see them only used as INT type questions. In terms of changing the time limit for these questions, I am less strongly opposed, but still incline to leave it as is. Partly it is because of the complications this would create (not all quiz equipment has a 45 second timer, and I think 60 seconds is too long), but also because there are other long questions (some Q questions are very long, and many SITs are). I agree that Q2/F2V questions are harder than Q/FTV, but I don't think it is a bad thing to have some harder questions. We could consider language specifying the maximum length of a Q2 or F2V question; my suggestion would be to find the longest single verse in the quizzing material and say that a Q2 or F2V cannot be longer than that verse (or round up to the nearest 5/10 words). In terms of there being no overlap between Q and Q2 questions, I think that is a weakness of your question set rather than a problem with the rule book. Certainly when I write questions, there is overlap between the two, for two reasons. Some sets of two verses have one verse that stands on its own, and a second verse that does not stand on its own, so I ask both questions. For example, Ephesians 6:7-8 7 Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, 8 because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free. Verse 7 stands on its own, but verse 8 does not. I would include 6:7 as a Q and 6:7-8 as a Q2. The second reason is that there are some verses that I want to have show up more times in the question file. For example, Romans 10:9-10: 9 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. Each of these verses does stand on its own, but they are also very key verses, and I would like to see them appear more times in quizzes, so I would ask each of them as a Q and both together as a Q2. As a different compromise: Could we say that there will be a maximum of one Q2, F2V, or FTN question per quiz? — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#183 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AS6555ISERND5LPE3SOSNA3XJNMMBANCNFSM6AAAAAAYRNIJQQ> . You are receiving this because you authored the thread.Message ID: ***@***.***>