Icann lockup - SOFT-FORK #819
Conversation
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The HF v SF - https://gist.github.com/nodech/ccfe8df3516e73ac59a0f0a68d887b8f List of |
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I've only quickly reviewed the code changes here on GitHub so I won't give much feedback on the implementation. However, I agree with the concept and I think this is [part of] the best plan forward for Handshake. A soft fork will be easier to deploy before the upcoming deadline. If the community still wants a hard fork they can spend another year or two working on it and then change whatever rules they want (re-enable claims on ICANN root names, whatever, etc...) I know it's slightly out of scope for this pull request but since there has also been community discussion about the HNS coin supply I wanted to add a comment about that as well: I think the best plan forward for Handshake is to enforce a soft fork that permanently disables all other form of coin generation besides PoW mining. That means all future CLAIM rewards are disabled AND all future airdrop rewards are disabled. This sends two important messages:
I think I think it is time to evaluate the founders' experiment with claim rewards and airdrops and in my opinion, those experiments failed. Finally, I also agree with comments made by @evbots regarding "making renewals more expensive." We never really figured out a great consensus rule for this (because TRANSFER / FINALIZE would also be affected) but the concept is clear as a bell for me: MAKE HNS MORE VALUABLE. We don't need more HNS out there, we need more US Dollars In here. |
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I am absolutely agree and I want to support these words. Thnks Matt |
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I am sure everyone know I agree with most all of this, other than the clawback. We have to figure out a way to draw devs in, we only have so many @eskimo, @pinheadmz, @Nathanwoodburn, @rithvikvibhu, @nodech (I know I missed many people) in the world that will do so much dev-ing without any expectations of rewards for improving our standard of living per se, keeping handshake alive and providing new functionality etc. It is also based on Andrew Lee and Meow's comments, we should reevaluate their experiment, like you said it failed and I think they agree. I think we should make sure we do not waste the opportunity to take what we have seen, take what others have done, create a new FOSS Dev incentive program. If its done correctly, burn all name claim coin, burn a percentage of the FOSS Dev incentive funds. More important that this in my opinion, and with all the current community support, we should evaluate a means for the community to vote, that is decentralized and complete fair, I know I say it often, One person, One vote, One weight. I do not think burning the coins will help increase value of HNS indefinitely, burn the coins, but without devs HNS I do not think HNS will make it. I really think if we were to look it, the experiment failed, but I think it holds true that "Handshake is rooted in the culture of open source." I think we owe it to ourselves and the creators of Handshake to make sure we do not squash the original intent, shifting the benefit from the corporations and governments, to the FOSS community. Additionally, I think we will still have the same burn etc as was planned with the incentives to the Dev with bidding on names etc. To @pinheadmz's point we need more US Dollars IN HERE, I do not think lowering the supply of coins ALONE will accomplish this, we need functionality and usability on the network. |
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Could you clarify what these dates mean? @nodech |
The signaling mentioned in the PR refers to BIP9. This is a mechanism in which miners vote and indicate that they have upgraded and are supporting the soft-fork. Voting takes place in two-week windows, with a threshold check before activation. If, within a two-week window, 95% of blocks have signaled their support for the soft-fork, the soft-fork will become activated. The start date is when voting by miners commences, and the end date is the deadline, after which the activation is considered a failure. |
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I really think locking up the names forever is a really really really bad idea. I'm not sure how anybody can be on board with this... If it's between them being unclaimable forever or out in the wild I'd almost say out in the wild is better because they can at least be purchase by their rightful owner in the future if they decide they want it. |
Any other change that allows the names to be claimed later would require a hard-fork. |
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"Wait 2 years for a hard fork to claim the name you want" is way worse than "it may be available on a secondary marketplace". Besides the ICANN TLDs, just let the Alexa names out. |
... but better than locked forever. |
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Nah, they'll just say "fuck it, never mind" and it'll open up plenty of time for an alt alt root blockchain to come out. This is a terrible idea. |
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Thanks for the clarification @nodech 🙏 July 01, 2023 is really soon and it seems hsd is moving forward without a community consensus on this. |
Well, there's no "consensus" and this is a way to stop name claims expiring by the end of January, 2024. This is "minimum" that can be done and breaking the least things, before hard fork discussion reaches consensus. |
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During the Twitter space on June 1st Meow said there is no supply issue, there is a demand issue. |
Getting rid of coins doesn't increase the value. |
There's no mechanism on chain that allows any other voting. As I mentioned above, this is about making sure integrity of chain - all miners agree on it and have upgraded.
Discussion if we want to merge this or not, is totally up to community. But this can buy us time for the hard-fork where we can re-enable the claims etc. |
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have you even read the list of names you are taking about? you really think Handshake is going to fail to a competitor because .pinterest and .livejasmin are locked? the only generic names in the list are 'mail' and 'ok'. the rest are obvious trademarks. https://gist.github.com/nodech/a5a308e2b01456d1ea0e34f4be4bd609 |
one portion of my comment. |
Also sorry I completely agree that we should add BIP9, I had throw something in the https://gist.github.com/nodech/ccfe8df3516e73ac59a0f0a68d887b8f discussion on a made up timeline based on a comment from @rithvikvibhu with the soft fork but including the alex100K from @benfranz HIP-xxxx, EDIT LINK ADDED TO HIP-xxxx(https://github.com/befranz/HIPs/blob/master/HIP-xxxx-Extended-Claim-Period.md)
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We have a twitter space tonight, https://twitter.com/i/spaces/1LyxBqNkWROJN?s=20, we will be discussing the soft fork, hard fork, opinions etc. |
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The next space, instead of a space I would like to use another medium with audio, video, and screen share capabilities. Thinking maybe hosting this 6/19 or 6/20, so there is plenty of time. I would like to focus on the soft fork and I think there is some question on Alexa Top 101-100,000 (be it top 1000, top 10,000, I think we all agree not the entire A100K) I was also planning on doing it in the middle of the night CST to hopefully accommodate more people. I really hope you all will attend because I know we all want to do what is best for Handshake and the continued usability of the chain. |
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If the coordination and dev effort to hard fork [icann/top100] names into "reserved for longer/forever & claimable" is not going to happen before the deadline, I guess this soft fork makes sense. How likely is it that the hard fork still happens after the urgency around this deadline is gone? All that said, what I absolutely believe that these names should not go up for auction. At most, they should only be claimable. |
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My thoughts on the token supply: handshake-org/HIPs#58 |
I expect that the community will push for this to be resolved with the hard fork as quickly as possible, at least from my perspective. Additionally, while we currently only have one core dev, I have some other folks that would loved to get involved but want to make sure they are helping/ assisting rather than hindering @nodech's progress/ work. Hope all of you will attend the space or whatever I have 6/19 or 6/20, we will only be discussing the soft fork as it is represented here. • Signaling start date - July 01, 2023 |
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https://twitter.com/Savethedoctor/status/1668419051754749953 https://star.vote/hnssoftfork23v2/ I have tweeted this and posting it here, I think we should have community discussion before 7/1/2023 on the Alexa 101 -100,000 Websites. Please review the vote and let's work as a community! |
How was ICANN, Top 100, and custom determined to be the only name's from the name claim we will lock until a hard fork? "The soft-fork will permanently secure the TLDs, top100, and custom names." |
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I am still hoping for more people to vote on the polls, but here is results thus far:
However, to me this shows the community wants to discuss this. Do we have to have this completed prior to signaling starting 7/1/2023, or would we have some time after 7/1/2023? |
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I have made a proposed change to not reserve any Alexa names (instead of reserving the top 100). to me it seems like the most logically consistent thing to do, rather than trying to pick and choose which names make the cut. I think we made a good faith effort to allow claims for 4 years, and time to move on.
We need to have HSD code changes completed, reviewed, and well tested to make a release in the next 2 weeks. From there we distribute to miners and everyone else to begin signaling the soft fork change. That means we basically are out of time for anything other than very simple code changes. |
Thanks will look into it and completely understand it would have to be very minor changes and not even sure theres time for that, I will look over this and think about the points you made here and on discord. I am not opposed to letting them drop into the wild, just concern will this affect handshake negatively. Thank you very much for the reply! |
What affects handshake negatively is when a bunch of people that don't know how to run shit try to run shit and are so indecisive that they do nothing because they're too busy talking about it. Have some balls and do what you gotta do. |
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^ Comments like this is why people don't care to listen to what you have to say. It took Aaron how long to come around to your position? Good grief. |
I don't have time, nor is it my responsibility to try and explain shit to everyone in the community. I know I'm not the best with communicating shit, but mostly because I don't really care to. I can give you the gist and you can figure out the rest is kinda how I work. |
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Doesn't seem to "work" all that well tbh. Ideally, you'd want people to agree with your point of view sooner than later. You repeatedly claim you don't care, then spend quite a bit of time on "not explaining." But hey, that's my two HNS. |
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Just trying to help share my opinion when it's different than others and I have time to do so. That doesn't mean I can explain in depth every single thought non stop, this is my hobby, I have an actual business I run and countless things I work on outside of the million handshake projects. |
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@eskimo I love you but this kind of comment is wildly inappropriate for github issue tracker or code review. There's plenty of other forums where you can cuss and call other hard-working developers stupid. I am going to lock this PR since it has been merged. If you want to leave mature feedback on #823 that seems like the right place to continue to policy discussion. PLEASE be polite on github, this is where people work, and we will block you from commenting any more in handshake-org if you continue. |
The soft-fork will permanently secure the TLDs, top100, and custom names. They will neither be claimable (as they would typically be after becoming tradable) nor can they be opened for auction.
After the soft-fork activation (BIP9), any OPENs for the reserved names will become illegal once the claim period ends, and will not be accepted into the mempool. Blocks containing OPENs of these names will also become illegal. Note: claims will become illegal as they will no longer be considered "normally reserved" according to standard rules.
Names that have been claimed and then either expired or were revoked will also be locked up.
Soft fork details: