Navigation concept #10491
Replies: 19 comments 74 replies
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This is the hierarchy what i have in mindDevices Automations Add-ons Developer Tools Settings |
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This seems great, a really powerful UI change that will enable a better workflow for those setting up or who constantly tweak and examine. |
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In this case configuration is split into 5 menu items. As suggested by @zsarnett I've changed |
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I think the #2 Configuration Name should be renamed to General/Settings. But overall looks great. |
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Great suggestion. Will change menu item |
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Also, should #1 be settings as well |
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I like the hierarchy but have a suggestion for the Settings items. While I use all of those items, the most frequent are Server Controls (e.g. Restart/Stop) and Logs by a long shot. They are also, less about "settings" and more about "control" so, for new users, this may not be a very intuitive home for them. One suggestion would be to split out Server Controls, Logs and Info into a separate heading, say, "Server Control". If you dont want to increase the number of headings then you could incorporate the items from "Add-Ons" here as well. |
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Thanks for your feedback! Our goal is to make sure you shouldn't have to restart that often. But in de meantime I understand the need for easy acces to these features. |
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I would suggest putting "Logging" an "Info" into a seperate category "Diagnostics". I feel Settings is something I can change while logging is something I can only 'consume' |
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We've been fine tuning this concept. A first step is to merge Supervisor to Configuration, minimize the amount of menu items, make it more appealing to the eye and make a next step towards Material You. That low hanging fruit we're planning to make right now. The current menu items are based on the current tab layout. Next step is to test with users what are the best menu items and the order of them. And the question how does this look on mobile.
You can test the prototypes here: What do you think of this? I've picked some random colors for the menu items. If you got some great ideas about the color pallet, please share them. |
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I find it confusing that the subtitle of "Addons & Backups" includes rebooting the system. I think this needs a more general heading. |
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Thanks @sim-san. Also replying here, the description could be better. The heading is correct in this mockup. |
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Would "Administration" (or maybe "Server") be more accurate for a top-level name than "Configuration", since quite a few of the items under it aren't actually configuration, but rather server admin and control? Or, just to ask the question, is there enough stuff here that it's worth keeping separate top levels? In this case, the suggestion would be to rename the existing Supervisor tab to be Administration, and then move the assorted admin tasks/controls from Config to Admin. |
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Thanks for your input! I understand what you mean, in that case you lean more to the In option |
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See below.
That's kinda my point - I'm arguing they aren't :-)
So to be more precise in my feedback:
Regardless, thank you for helping to improve this! |
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I realized overnight that another good term was staring me in the face that isn't being used: "Info" |
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Really great work, it looks amazing and very polished.
Obviously thats just my standpoint, completely understand if you stay with what you have planned. Eventually everyone will get used to both ways. |
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OMG. I saw the result in 2021.12. A few people have an idea, change this to their minds and worsen the usability that much, without any change to let the user choose? Is is really working this way in HA development. Can not believe or understand it. Sections for better overview removed and the worst: Everything is now at least one click more way. Please revert or at least give the user the choice. |
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Those "few poeple" are the ones driving the development behind the frontend, but everyone is welcome to join in actively. Also, assuming that you came from the blog post, there was a gist posted that allows those who want some shortcuts, to add them in. So the choice is there... |
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Agreed, this needs to go back to the way it was. This change was unneeded and is very unwanted. |
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And those people only have a look on prettiness for whatever reasons and completely ignore usability? UI is not only design, it is usability and clearness as well. If everything is now a lot of clicks deeper and far away, only to have a more prettier config menu (hey, yes, it is a config menu, not a page one design), then a lot of things went and go wrong. And yes, I can now put 10 links on level 1, which are now on level 3, but this will not improve my modifies level 1 and not the worse decision for the new config design. Or at leas, as proposed by different people, bring an advanced more, which works like before. |
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Just started using HA 2 weeks ago and having hard time navigating the new configuration can you point me to a gist that ads all these shortcuts back to the configuration window? I don't want to at allot of shortcuts to my side panel. |
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Vote for look and eye candiness 10 Vote for usability? - 5!! Why did you even do this? The old menù system was functional and was rapid to navigate! It now takes time to find where everything is. And even when you know exactly where to go, you waste time clicking all around the place. Seriously, rework this! And stop "fixing" b making worse what ain't broken! |
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I know what the moaning is about, and yes it was not mobile friendly and yes i was serious, There are many who use mobile devices only to configure their HA instances, maybe check the posts on the forums or in the github issues, when webkit/webview is stuffed and they cant edit their HA installs. |
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If we now start to discuss, why HA users wants to edit, build up their environment, automations, ... we should definitely close this discussion. And close HA. And build a system without config at all. If you are not in the config page, please let the usability to them, who are. A few clicks always means 2-4 clicks multiplied compared to the needed clicks before. Multiplied. |
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A few extra? Hardly. It's made troubleshooting and debugging a lot more difficult.
I'd love to see real stats on this as I seriously doubt that's where most people are doing hard core configuration. As it stands, on a laptop / desktop there is now 80% unused whitespace due to these "improvements"
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Just to keep the discussion here clear and precise (and factual at that): If you are talking about the whitespace to the left and right of the menu in your screenshot (and it sounds as you are since you mentioned "80%"): Nothing changed in that regard, still the same width as before. |
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Try and see the bigger picture please. The white space may have been there however there were two other screens which fully utilized the screen real estate. Point being as the new layout is a waste of valuable screen space. |
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Not to rain on the GUI redo parade but the result is horrible. The UI did not need cleaning up and if it was going to happen regardless, then an option to retain the old menus should have been incorporated IMO. Clicking 3 times to get to something that used to take one is not an improvement. Perhaps link the original menu items to the user profile feature that already exists - Advanced Mode
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I appreciate that effort is being made to make HA more user-friendly, and more accessible, but I also really don't like this change. I agree with the above that this is a lot less usable. It's much harder to find the section you want to access, and even if you know where it is, it's usually 2 clicks away. When I saw the screenshots, my expectation was that this was an accordion view, which means I could still expand the sections and get directly to a specific task. Basically what we had before, but with collapseable sections. At least this would make it easier to get to the section you want without going through the section you don't want. Also the current design suffers from the doorway effect. You have to go through a doorway (clicking on the configuration section), then remember what you were going for (e.g., Entities). But human brains are not very good at this, context changes can have a negative effect on our focus. Personally, I'd much rather see something like the Integrations page, where each configuration section has a small square button, but these can be grouped by the new headers. It would still be more compact, but allow for quicker jumping to the section you want. |
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What is really a pity or already very disappointing: Here and esp. in the release thread, there are many complaints. And even more will now build workarounds via custom additional level 1 items. And is there any feedback, discussion, involvement of the ones, like @matthiasdebaat who brought this "improvements", more clicks, deterioration, removal of usability, ... ... or any update, proposals, discussion, how to bring back usability? No, not a single one. It looks very like Ivory tower, and ignoring cheeky or already indecent the users, their feedback and usability. |
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I am sure a response will come at some point, but this is an open-source project, so people are working on it in their free-time => you cannot expect an immediate response, esp. for non-critical issues (as in not impacting the stability or security of the system). On top of that, my impression so far is that the people against this change are a very vocal group, but not sure if that is actually the majority of users. There are even users in the release thread that admit that now after a few days using the new layout, they changed their previously opposed opinion. I am in a similar situation: My initial gut reaction when the change was introduced two or three weeks ago to now also changed. EDIT: And also this pitch-fork-wielding tone where in the new comments and the release thread is not inviting to anyone wanting to touch this topic. At least not me... |
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Don't expect that English is the mother or professional language of everyone and put too much in the single words. Therefor I would prefer to talk about content.
As I expect, that waiting for some weeks will not reduce any new introduced click. Will it? My gut feeling is, that everyone, who will not complain anymore after a while, modified their UI to bring back the usability on their own. Top-menu, items, own card, ... I have just seen, that someone already rebuild the old menu (no, wasn't me). If I would be a UI designer and make such changes and only have a look in design, not UX or usability and now the folks are build their own workarounds, I would think, that I didn't do it good. |
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First of all, thank you for all the feedback about the menu change in 2021.12. Any feedback is welcome to make Home Assistant a better product for all of us. Although some comments are not constructive and may be interpreted as a personal attack. Before we dive into the feedback I want to highlight why this discussion is started. For those who haven't read the opening post, I would recommend to read it.
Yesterday I've read all the comments from users who are not happy with the menu change. My first conclusion is that these are the second type of users
Some of the Next steps
For those who are not satisfied with this response, I have the following tips:
For the sake of time I won't reply to all comments. Thanks to all who took a bullet while you were operating as messengers! |
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@capstan1 Please don't. There is enough fire in this discussion already, so let's keep it calm and professional. |
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Appreciate the feedback, hoping we can something similar to the old menu structure where the advance config items were separated out and not lumped in with standard user items.
If it has to be reduced to a single item, can you look at lumping all the more advanced items into a single menu item with tabs at the top? Ex: Also updates show up on the main configuration screen now but not on the system screen where it made sense, |
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Hi. First of all thanks for all your passion and all the effort you are putting in this change. I'm not a super fan of the new menu, but I'm sure I'll get used to it soon and will use it as productively as the old one. Perhaps what scares about the new menu is just the way it looks. In a gui with just white, black and accent color having all those colored circles is a bit out of place. In your tests have you ever tried to remove the circles behind the icons or to use accent colored circles and then check the feeling of the users? Anyhow, thank you again. |
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I like this idea, of grouping the current Settings items (Server Controls, Logs and Info, but excluding the General one) tabs with the Supervisor ones. This makes a lot of sense, and, I assume, they were only separated previously due Supervisor being separate. With the move of Supervisor into Configuration, this would be a very logical grouping. Call the group System and then stick General somewhere else, or just leave it on it's own at the end of the menu and call it General Settings. |
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Could you explain to me how i would use weblink rows](https://www.home-assistant.io/lovelace/entities/#weblink) to create the old menu? |
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I really don't know what all the fuss is about and I am going to go against the grain and say I really like the new menu structure. It's much tidier and more logical and once muscle memory kicks in, is just as quick, if not quicker than the old structure, as there's no scrolling (on Desktop). I particularly like how related entries are now in tabs at the top, which actually saves time instead of having to click back to the main menu to move to a related entry. The only issue which I can understand people complaining about is the Server Controls being an extra click away. However, this looks like it will be resolved in the next update by changing the entry point. It's actually not bothering me in the slightest though, as because of the changes I have discovered Panel Redirect (also mentioned elsewhere), which is something I had been looking to do for ages. This is a golden little customisation, which allows you to add anything into the Sidebar and I now have three new entries, one of ZHA, one for Z-Wave JS and one for Server Controls, but you can customise and add anything you want. I, for one, would vote that this is integrated into the core of Home Assistant, rather than being something people have to seek out (as I hadn't found it despite looking for something like this previously). I was trying to do the same thing with the iFrame Panel integration. There is also the possibility of building your own Development Dashboard, which I really like the idea of. It's good to have options and fortunately Home Assistant gives us a lot of them. |
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Just FYI: Those tabs on top have always been there 😆 ...assuming you mean those: |
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My biggest issue / reason for the fuss is the massive white space / wasted space driven by a single menu item. Click here to just get to another menu of menus. Adding steps where they aren't needed. Of course I will now use the add-in and but quite honestly it isn't working for me (shortcuts show up but do not link correctly) so now I have to troubleshoot. Previously these menu items were part of the product and just worked. Not a huge deal but again the change really wasn't needed. The one thing I really do not like about the add-in is due to the fact that the advanced menu items are now lumped into the same area as the normal user items. By most UI design standards this is suboptimal. Out of curiosity I tried something today. I used a regular user account (non admin) and all the config screens were removed as expected. So I am again left wondering, why the need to clean up the interface when a regular user doesn't see the items anyhow. |
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What do you mean by "add-in" here? Custom panel entries you added to your sidebar now? |
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@spacegaier I must say I don't think I had noticed (maybe I had subconsciously) that they were there before! 🤣 With the change, it was imediately obvious that this was the way to navigate the grouped items. |
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Correct - anything unofficial to me is an add-in |
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There are several reasons why this new menu is something I dislike in the current state.
I like that HA component's updates are showed immediately without the need to access the supervisor page, which makes it feel closer than it really is, but I haven't seen the same behavior for addons (might be that I didn't have any addon to be updated). |
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I would second moving HACS and Developer Tools under Configuration and renaming "Devices & Services" to maybe "Integrations, Devices & Areas". Regarding the ton of wasted space, I don't see how it's really changed much from before (other than being a shorter list, which is a benefit IMO)? There was a ton of wasted space to the left of the menu before the change and you had to scroll up/down to access all menu items previously. |
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I haven't seen it yet, but I am expecting Add-on updates to also appear at the top of the list when they become available. Regarding updates in general, it's possible to create automations that create a persistent notification when an update becomes available. https://community.home-assistant.io/t/update-notifications-core-hacs-supervisor-and-addons/182295 |
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This is what I'm seeing, I've got add-on updates at the top of the configuration page. Which seems like a really nice improvement. I would love to see HACS mixed in, but it's not part of HA officially, so I doubt it'll get fully integrated.
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Even after one week of usage, I still do not see any advantage, beside that the admin config menu is smaller. Yes, perhaps, you will memorize, where to find what if you use it more often. But again, it is an admin config menu. And every time, you have to go into this menu, you have to click one or (mostly) two more times than before. Every time. And then you are there, where you were in the future without these 2 clicks. And secondly, for the new users, why are not aware of the tabs at the top, they will have to search again, where it is, where they wanted to go. E.g. To see the Logs, they click on System and then have a long list of config, server maintenance, reload of components, will read and scroll down and then (hopefully) will search the rest of the screen, find the topbar, have to click a second time and come eventually to the logs. Before: Configmenu->Menu Item logs->one single click->Logs. Clear and direct. Only to have a smaller (admin config) menu, to introduce this visual problems and 2 clicks more for every setting you want access, I still wonder where the advantages should be. |
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As I have written: (you need custom button card). It's available in HACS. Just install and you are done. But let's discuss this in the community forum, if you have further questions not here. |
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By HACS i guess you mean https://hacs.xyz/ and https://github.com/custom-cards/button-card ? |
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@Zhoardkell If you just use weblinks, you don't get the same visual experience, but I created this version, which also includes some things not in the original config. I also didn't include a couple items, but this should be more than enough to get you closer. Neither option is a great solution IMO, though. Even if this recreates the layout, we now no longer get the update notification at the top of the page, since it's only available on the new configuration page. |
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@OverZealous Thanks that already looks allot better then what i created. |
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@Zhoardkell Please move that support topic to the community forums, discord, Reddit, ..., This is the wrong place and derails the actual topic here. |
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Hello there,
The rest took a while getting used to, but feels really ok now. But then again the other sections I use far less than the three before, so less experience using them. Just my 3 (inflation is bad..) cents PS: if I'm a little bit unclear or my words feel inappropriate, please ask, I'm no native english speaker, so I have to phrase carefully. |
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Thanks for your feedback! |
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I agree with all the above. I even mentioned the same about the naming of "Devices & Services" in a previous comment. I really think the organisation of entries needs a rethink about which group they should be under, now that they are in groups. |
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I would still like to see the groups removed again (as I see only the advantage to have a small menu, but the disadvantage to always click three times often). Or put it in accordions below the group-headers and remember the collapsed/opened state of this locally. |
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The accordion thing (Uh! i learned a new word) seems like a good idea to me. so anybody can have their preferred state. small and tidy ot direct access. |
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I realize that this is the correct place for front-end discussion and not the feature requests in the community (maybe also something to streamline). So please allow me to cross post my own text: The theme for 2022 is streamlining. One place that bugs me in that regard is the Configuration menu. From my perspective:
I would like to propose the following principles:
This could mean:
In this proposal:
It is important, in my humble view, to be guided by principles, consistency and user flow targeting average non-expert users. Others might benefit more from keyboard shortcuts. https://community.home-assistant.io/t/lets-start-streamlining-the-configuration-menu/389670 |
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Haven't seen the user test either i don't use twitter and reddit only getting there when a search engine tells me i can find an answer there i,m looking for, same i guess for the Home Assistant Forum if i go there i,m already looking for something. |
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I don't know what the test design was, but in a user test, you ideally don't even know that you are part of a test. I'm not sure of HA can run A/B tests properly due to the private nature and design of the system. But if that's possible, you either would have been part of one group or the other. Unless the test was a questionnaire or virtual focus group or something similar. In that case, it comes down to the recruitment strategy, stratification of users and selection to get a representative result. You certainly don't want a bias of the most vocal / active power users in there. But again, I'm not sure of how it was done. |
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We will probably add it to the newsletter the next time it another user test is available so you can subscribe there. but if you aren't on any platforms its not really possible 😄 |
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Where should i subscribe to that newsletter then there is nothing on the main website or forum about a newsletter even the search gives no result for it. |
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I'd like to get some feedback on my assumptions an ideas. What do you think what we should do with our navigation? Related discussion: #10492
Introduction
Home Assistant has a total of 10 default menu items in the "sidebar". People can manage their main menu by adding new items, change the order or hide menu items by device. Talking to a number of users, I noticed that the navigation is looked at in two ways:
1. Basic
People want a minimalistic main menu with consolidated menu options, so that they get a clean interface.
For example: Supervisor and Developer Tools should be merged with Configuration.
2. Shortcut
People want to have quick access to often used features, so that they can easily switch between viewing and configuring Home Assistant.
For example: The current configuration tabs Integrations, Devices, Entities and Areas should get its own menu item called Devices.
Shared goal
Administrators want to manage default main menu on system level, so that people only see menu items that apply.
Possible solutions
Home assistant stands for being able to make and create what you want. So the challenge is to make one solution that helps both ways. Some ideas I'd like to explore:
SupervisorandDeveloper ToolstoConfiguration.Configurationin multiple menu items ...Configurationmenu items to the main menu.Main menu options
Next steps
Update menu item
GeneraltoSettings.Beta Was this translation helpful? Give feedback.
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