Chapter updates #190

dericed · 2017-09-16T20:26:10Z

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The make process doesn’t support tick-quotes or links in section names.

mbunkus

LGTM.

ablwr · 2017-09-16T20:33:51Z

chapters.md


-#### `EditionFlagOrdered`
+The `EditionFlagOrdered Flag` is a significant feature as it enables an Edition of `Ordered Chapters` which define and arrange a virtual timeline rather than simply labeling points within the timeline. For example, with `Editions` of `Ordered Chapters` a single `Matroska file` can present multiple edits of a film without duplicating content. Alternatively if a videotape is digitized in full, one `Ordered Edition` could present the full content (including colorbars, countdown, slate, a feature presentation, and black frames), while another `Edition` of `Ordered Chapters` can use `Chapters` that only mark the intended presentation with the colorbars and other ancilary visual information excluded. If an `Edition` of `Ordered Chapters` is enabled then the Matroska Player MUST play those Chapters in their stored order from the timecode marked in the `ChapterTimeStart Element` to the timecode marked in to `ChapterTimeEnd Element`.


Edition is capitalized but not backticked in the first line/sentence

I'd like more clarity that the define/arrange description in the first sentence is speaking of the Ordered Chapters in general and not the Edition -- otherwise should be defines/arranges

And Chapters in the last sentence is capitalized but not backticked as well!

I think from the schema it feels like the concept should be called Ordered Edition but Ordered Chapters is what has more common usage. will backtick later

dericed · 2017-09-16T20:39:35Z

pinging @hubblec4 for review

dericed · 2017-09-16T22:23:16Z

I updated the PR according to @ablwr's comments. I also added a little more rewriting, so please re-review.

retokromer · 2017-09-17T05:49:54Z

chapters.md

-
-If the `EditionFlagOrdered Flag` is set to `false`, "Matroska Simple-Chapters" are used and only the `ChapterTimeStart` of a chapter is used as chapter mark to jump to the predefined point in the timeline.
-Some chapter elements must be now ignored by the playback application. All these elements are now informational only.
+The `EditionFlagOrdered Flag` is a significant feature as it enables an `Edition` of `Ordered Chapters` which defines and arranges a virtual timeline rather than simply labeling points within the timeline. For example, with `Editions` of `Ordered Chapters` a single `Matroska file` can present multiple edits of a film without duplicating content. Alternatively if a videotape is digitized in full, one `Ordered Edition` could present the full content (including colorbars, countdown, slate, a feature presentation, and black frames), while another `Edition` of `Ordered Chapters` can use `Chapters` that only mark the intended presentation with the colorbars and other ancilary visual information excluded. If an `Edition` of `Ordered Chapters` is enabled then the Matroska Player MUST play those Chapters in their stored order from the timecode marked in the `ChapterTimeStart Element` to the timecode marked in to `ChapterTimeEnd Element`.


ancillary with two l

I'm basically fine with this new description.
I wanted to insert an example myself, but I was not sure if this is too much text for the Specs.

retokromer · 2017-09-17T05:51:15Z

chapters.md


-If the `EditionFlagOrdered Flag` is set to `true`, the "Matroska Ordered-Chapters" feature is activated.
-A playback application must now also read the `ChapterTimeEnd Element`, and a new virtual timeline is used.
+If the `EditionFlagOrdered Flag` is set to `false`, `Simple Chapters` are used and only the `ChapterTimeStart` of a `Chapter` is used as Chapter mark to jump to the predefined point in the timeline. With `Simple Chapters`, a Matroska Plyaer MUST ignore certain `Chapter Elements`. All these elements are now informational only.


typo: Player

personally not sure that used as Chapter mark and a Matroska Player should have capital C and P…

I agree to Reto.
Chapter mark -> chapter mark
Matroska Player -> Matroska player (What is wrong with "playback application"?)

agree with lowercase chapter.

Matroska Player is used elsewhere in this part of the spec. However at the top level, under Security Concerns,Matroska Reader is used and backticked. In the cues.md section, "Matroska reader" is used. We should pick and standardize this. "playback application" is also used in a few spots other than here.

The EBML document defines "EBML Reader" in the Notations and Conventions section, along with other phrases used within the document. I'm inclined to consistently use "Matroska Reader" also.

Definition:
"EBML Reader": An "EBML Reader" is a data parser that interprets the
semantics of an "EBML Document" and creates a way for programs to use
"EBML".

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cellar-ebml/?include_text=1

I don't want to hold up this PR with this issue though -- should I ask the CELLAR list?

Keep in mind that every reading application is not a player (e.g. mkvmerge), and that every issue is not a playback issue. Meaning that two different wordings "reader" and "player" actually make sense.

Here's an example:

All Matroska readers MUST handle default values properly.

All Matroska players must play Edition so-and-so under circumstances so-and-so.

True, thanks for that point.

With this new info I think Matroska Player for a playback application is fine, but Matroska Player sounds to specific so I would prefer playback application.
Matroska Reader for the reading applications sounds good.

I prefer the generic "playback application" too!

hubblec4 · 2017-09-17T17:47:03Z

chapters.md


-It is recommended that only one Edition's `EditionFlagDefault Flag` is set to `true`. If more then one `Default Edition` is present, the first `Default Edition` MUST be used.
-If an `EditionFlagDefault Flag` is set to `true`, this `Edition` MUST be used. When all `EditionFlagDefault Flags` are set to `false`, the first Edition MUST be used.
+It is RECOMMENDED that no more than one `Edition` have an `EditionFlagDefault Flag` set to `true`. The first `Edition` with the `EditionFlagDefault Flag` set to `true` is the `Default Edition`. When all `EditionFlagDefault Flags` are set to `false`, then the first `Edition` is the `Default Edition`.



Here, I have made some tests with EditionFlagDefault set to true AND the EditionFlagHidden set to true.
Simple mkv with 3 editions. 2. edition is set to default and hidden.
The default Edition is not used! Instead the first edition is played.
If the 3. edition deflaut Flag also set to true, then the 3. edition is used.

Maybe we should mention this behaviour.

If the Default Edititon's EditionFlagHidden is set to true then the first Edition is the Default Edition.
When more then one Edition EditionFlagDefault Flag is set to true then the first Default Edition is used.

@hubblec4: I updated the language to say:

The first Edition with both the EditionFlagDefault Flag set to true and the EditionFlagHidden Flag not set to false is the Default Edition.

Does this address your comment?

The first Edition with both the EditionFlagDefault Flag set to true and the EditionFlagHidden Flag "not - is not correct" set to false is the Default Edition.
The Edition is hidden when you set the HiddenFlag to true(or not to false) and so the Edition can't be the Default one.

mbunkus

I'm still good with this. @ablwr what about you after @dericed's latest changes?

ablwr · 2017-09-24T21:20:32Z

I would like to see @retokromer's advice incorporated into this PR first!

ablwr · 2017-09-24T21:22:26Z

Even if just "ancilary" and "Plyaer" corrected. Although I'd like to continue the discussion proposed by @hubblec4 about Matroska reader/player/application, that can be covered separately.

What about @hubblec4's note on Line 28?

dericed · 2017-09-24T21:55:23Z

"ancilary" and "Plyaer" corrected locally, will force push soon

dericed · 2017-09-24T21:59:05Z

The PR is rebased and forced pushed to address the typos noted and to add language to address @hubblec4's comment at #190 (comment). Please re-review.

hubblec4

I'm fine with the changes. Only one small issue with the new changes by @dericed, I have commented.

hubblec4 · 2017-09-25T10:50:20Z

chapters.md


-It is recommended that only one Edition's `EditionFlagDefault Flag` is set to `true`. If more then one `Default Edition` is present, the first `Default Edition` MUST be used.
-If an `EditionFlagDefault Flag` is set to `true`, this `Edition` MUST be used. When all `EditionFlagDefault Flags` are set to `false`, the first Edition MUST be used.
+It is RECOMMENDED that no more than one `Edition` have an `EditionFlagDefault Flag` set to `true`. The first `Edition` with the `EditionFlagDefault Flag` set to `true` is the `Default Edition`. When all `EditionFlagDefault Flags` are set to `false`, then the first `Edition` is the `Default Edition`.



The first Edition with both the EditionFlagDefault Flag set to true and the EditionFlagHidden Flag "not - is not correct" set to false is the Default Edition.
The Edition is hidden when you set the HiddenFlag to true(or not to false) and so the Edition can't be the Default one.

hubblec4 · 2017-09-25T13:06:54Z

The first Edition with both the EditionFlagDefault Flag set to true and the EditionFlagHidden Flag not set to false is the Default Edition.

Here ist the "not" too much, the both flags must be set to Deflaut=true and Hidden=false, otherwise the Edition is not the Default one.

The first Edition with both the EditionFlagDefault Flag set to true and the EditionFlagHidden Flag set to false is the Default Edition.

fix make issues

9e3cc05

The make process doesn’t support tick-quotes or links in section names.

mbunkus approved these changes Sep 16, 2017

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ablwr suggested changes Sep 16, 2017

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dericed force-pushed the chapter-updates branch from 29ed66a to 5c54db6 Compare September 16, 2017 22:22

retokromer reviewed Sep 17, 2017

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hubblec4 reviewed Sep 17, 2017

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mbunkus approved these changes Sep 24, 2017

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dericed mentioned this pull request Sep 24, 2017

define Matroska Player and Matroska Reader #194

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dericed added 2 commits September 24, 2017 17:58

some rewriting for clarity

ef6bf98

clarify Default Edition

8416f79

dericed force-pushed the chapter-updates branch from 5c54db6 to 8416f79 Compare September 24, 2017 21:58

ablwr approved these changes Sep 24, 2017

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hubblec4 approved these changes Sep 25, 2017

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robUx4 added the formatting label Sep 25, 2017

robUx4 merged commit 2ebf56f into master Sep 25, 2017

robUx4 deleted the chapter-updates branch September 25, 2017 11:37

retokromer mentioned this pull request Sep 25, 2017

defines matroska, reader, and player; update typo for Notation #198

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dericed mentioned this pull request Sep 25, 2017

fix to Default Edition logic #202

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Chapter updates #190

Chapter updates #190

dericed commented Sep 16, 2017

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ablwr Sep 16, 2017

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dericed commented Sep 16, 2017

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retokromer Sep 17, 2017

hubblec4 Sep 17, 2017

retokromer Sep 17, 2017

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mbunkus Sep 17, 2017

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ablwr Sep 17, 2017

hubblec4 Sep 17, 2017 •

edited

dericed Sep 24, 2017

hubblec4 Sep 25, 2017

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ablwr commented Sep 24, 2017

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hubblec4 Sep 25, 2017

hubblec4 commented Sep 25, 2017


		#### `EditionFlagOrdered`
		The `EditionFlagOrdered Flag` is a significant feature as it enables an Edition of `Ordered Chapters` which define and arrange a virtual timeline rather than simply labeling points within the timeline. For example, with `Editions` of `Ordered Chapters` a single `Matroska file` can present multiple edits of a film without duplicating content. Alternatively if a videotape is digitized in full, one `Ordered Edition` could present the full content (including colorbars, countdown, slate, a feature presentation, and black frames), while another `Edition` of `Ordered Chapters` can use `Chapters` that only mark the intended presentation with the colorbars and other ancilary visual information excluded. If an `Edition` of `Ordered Chapters` is enabled then the Matroska Player MUST play those Chapters in their stored order from the timecode marked in the `ChapterTimeStart Element` to the timecode marked in to `ChapterTimeEnd Element`.

Chapter updates #190

Chapter updates #190

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dericed commented Sep 16, 2017

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dericed commented Sep 16, 2017

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hubblec4 Sep 17, 2017 • edited

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ablwr commented Sep 24, 2017

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hubblec4 commented Sep 25, 2017

hubblec4 Sep 17, 2017 •

edited