TurtleShroom Productions VII #198
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Test import of former TSP6. This is a working draft and attempt to reincorporate the files by hand. Some formatting (but not coding, like forced-enter strokes) is broken due to the limited abilities I have to restore the files.
This reverts commit 242e8f1.
Test import of former TSP6. This is a working draft and attempt to reincorporate the files by hand. I looked through each one, one by one, but I may have missed something.
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All right Loup, I've added back the TSP6 files I had lost that time before. God willing, I won't screw up this time. These are the same files we discussed earlier, and they are primed for implementation. However, I have yet to test if their inclusion is complete, so please hold off until I give the all-clear. Once I get the stuff I had previously added back, I'll work on what I said I'd work on in one of Maelgwynn's files. |
DAGGUM THIS STUPID "NORELIGION" GLITCH
Fixed missing Borborite Trait from TSP6
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| culture = old_slavic | |||
| } | |||
| 1042167 = { | |||
| name="Atillid" | |||
| name="the Hun" | |||
| culture = hunnic | |||
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"The Hun" is not an actual historical name, it is rather a nickname. Unless Enlil changes his mind, this should stay as it is.
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"Attilid" is also pure conjecture and is nowhere as bad-A as House the Hun.
Unlike Genghis Khan, we do not know the true last name of Attila the Hun. Both "the Hun" and "Scourge of God" were ancient nicknames and both are fitting.
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We can script in nicknames but the dynasty name stays because it is more appropriate and that it is used for the whole dynasty, not just Attila himself. Also "the Hun" is in English and not good from the optic of supporting more than one language (this is the kind of thing we can't translate in localisation files).
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It's still a terrible decision. "Timmy the Hun" as Ernakh's son, or installing "House the Hun" as your vassal if you can entice an Attila relative to come to your court is so much for fun than the generic "-id" suffix. It's also somewhat more historical because "the Hun" is not conjecture like "Attilid" is. He was referred to as "the Hun" and the "Scourge of God" in the Dark Ages.
Now, if you can find a definitive record of his actual last name, then we're good, but I sitll say "the Hun" is a better and more accurate name than "Attilid".
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I prefer the current setup but support using "The Hun" as a nickname. As it is however there is no justification for making the change you did, given that Attilid works and is consistent with similar other cases, while "the Hun" is the textbook definition of a nickname.
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Unlike the boring, conjectural, and generic "Attilid", the nickname "the Hun" was a contemporary term used for Attila and his family during Attila's lifetime.
Unlike Genghis Khan, whose last name was Borjigin, we have no source on Attila's surname. House "the Hun" was the dynasty encoded until you mistakenly turned it into a conjectural, generic surname. Right now, if I had an illegitimate child as a Hunnic character, HE could get an "Attilid" dynasty as well! That's insane; Attila the Hun should have an unique dynasty befitting his prestige.
Once again, as there is no known surname for Attila the Hun, we should stick with what sounds better and was more used in the time period than a generic suffix. Attila and family were referred to as "the Hun" while Attila was alive. The change should stay until we find proof of a real surname.
Didn't Enlil choose House "the Hun" before you changed it?
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No, it wasn't, it was a simple nickname. There has been no mistake or unintentional change, and I certainly haven't touched it personally. "The Hun" sounds awful as a dynasty name because:
- It literally is a translated nickname, all other usages correspond to it.
- There are other Hunnic characters.
- It doesn't work in any other languages and it is a major priority to adapt the mod for French and Spanish
- There is no other corresponding similar dynasty, all others use the "Attilid" model.
- We know it is wrong as there is no known surname and we strive to improve accuracy, not worsen it.
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What is it translated from?
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-but none that ruled the Hunnic Empire. Attila the Hun, and his powerful family, were the epitome of the Huns and the greatest Hunnish dynasty. Their name was and is synonymous with the Hunnic Empire.
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Attila the Hun's name (and thus "the Hun") can be translated into French and Spanish. Based on the French Wikipedia translation, "Attila des Huns" (and thus House "des Huns") could pass, but I am likely wrong in use of semantics. I am sure a Frenchman can help us on that.
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Right now, Hunnish characters can be assigned the first name "Attila". Using the illegitimate cadet dynasty naming conventions, if that Attila is illegitimate and has kids, he can create his own "Attilid" dynasty.
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The closest thing I could find to a known surname is "Attilus". Attila the Hun and his family were under House the Hun for years, the change was unneeded and detracting of the dynastic prestige. He deserves an unique dynasty name, not a slapped-together generic dynasty. Look at all the AARs using it. "The Hun" is more accurate than Attilid because, once again, "the Hun" and "Scourge of God" (Flagellum Deo) was a contemporary nickname used in that time period. We could use the dynasty "Flagellum Deo" or "Attilus" as a comrpmise. Both of those make more sense than "Attilid", which is total conjecture. "The Hun" has some basis in history, "Attilid" has nothing but your own imagination.
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- I don't know when it was used originally and in which language, but it certainly wasn't English.
- And also with Huns in general as I said.
- First of all, I'm French myself. Secondly, we can't translate dynasty names, only nicknames. Thirdly, in French "le Hun" isn't used to refer to him, or at the very least I have never heard it. What you wrote was "of the Huns". Without something before the "of" it has no meaning.
- Attilid is used as a convention in all cases where there is no historical name, in that case the name of the main character/founder is used.
- Again, the Hun is an accurate nickname, nothing else, and so it will remain. Attilid has more of a basis as a surname than the Hun, as we know that "the Hun" wasn't a surname while Attilid is a plausible surname.
| @@ -16,6 +16,9 @@ government_flavor = { | |||
| graphics = GFX_evt_zoroastrian_fire | |||
| priority = 2 | |||
| trigger = { | |||
| NOT = { | |||
| has_landed_title = e_persia | |||
| } | |||
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It may have been leftover from a previous commitment. In that form, Eranshar and Iranian Kingdom were two different Government Flavors.
| government_flavor = { | ||
| name = gov_bureaucracy | ||
| graphics = GFX_government_flavor_bureaucracy_placeholder |
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This placeholder will not be included to the main mod.
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I'm sick of the Anarch decapitation scene on my bureaucracy. Why are you against a TEMPORARY placeholder?
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Anarchy is the temporary placeholder. 😉
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Which is stupidly annoying. Roman bureaucracies WERE NOT ANARCHIC!
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And no relevant historical character of the Migrational Era was called "Smith" 😉
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I think there is a big difference between Roman bureaucracies chopping off heads and a placeholder surname.
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There is also a big difference between the art we would like to display and the art we have. I guess I could recycle a loading-screen.
| religion_group = christian | ||
| religion_group = pagan | ||
| } | ||
| } |
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Why? The idea that a Roman bureaucracy magically vanishes if run by Jews is laughably unrealistic!
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What do you mean? The idea of preventing a religious head from going Bureaucratic has nothing to do with Judaism.
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No, look under it. I changed the "pagan or Christian only" requirement.
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I don't know what you mean, but what you removed should stay.
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I'll add back the religious head requirement.
| } | ||
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| c_priscillianism_holy_order = { |
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That was intentional. It's an uniqie symbol f their asceticosm and humility.
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Unrelated to all holy orders being duchy-level. For consistence and to avoid unforeseen issues they should be the same.
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What unforeseen issues? Why must it be a duchy? Why can't the Priscillian religious head be king-tier when they are definitively Catholicand papal in structure?
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There is no point in making it different just because. The Papacy is duchy-level, by the way.
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The Vanilla Papacy is a kingdom, and, after the Great Schism, the WTWSMS Papacy becomes a kingdom.
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The schism hasn't been implemented yet.
| culture = aramean | ||
| religion = nestorian | ||
| culture = kurdish | ||
| religion = yazidi |
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Not getting added. Islam has not fired.
| culture = greek | ||
| religion = docetic | ||
| culture = coptic | ||
| religion = sethian |
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This province will remain as it is, there was no majority.
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The sources in TSP6 disagree!
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All the things I saw about the Sethians said that they were primarily concentrated in remote parts of Egypt. The first source listed below is the most definitive about large hordes of Sethians hiding in remote parts of Egypt.
http://jdt.unl.edu/lithist.html#Heading14 (section "Conclusion")
https://mandoxegypt.wordpress.com/2016/11/20/gnostic-sethians-sethian-gnostics/
http://www.jwmt.org/v3n24/rivera.html
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sumer_anunnaki/reptiles/reptiles62.htm
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The first source refers to 395 though. Even if we have discussed a possibility of adding something to reflect a tendency of divergence in desert areas, this account of there being Sethians is insufficient to justify their inclusion as a majority in any province.
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How is this account insufficient?
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It is clear that it was a minority almost 100 years before start.
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| # Misc | |||
| culture = coptic | |||
| religion = miaphysite | |||
| religion = sethian | |||
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This province will remain as it is, there was no majority.
| k_ostrogoths;Ostrogoths;Ostrogoths;;;;;;;;;;x | ||
| k_ostrogoths_adj;Ostrogothic;Ostrogoth;;;;;;;;;;x | ||
| d_ostrogoths;Ostrogoths;Ostrogoths;;;;;;;;;;x | ||
| d_ostrogoths_adj;Ostrogothic;Ostrogoth;;;;;;;;;;x |
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That was an accident.
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Good news! I just checked my localization files, and BOTH titles are present, duchy and kingdom.
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Huh? Only the kingdom is used. I don't know what files you refer to.
| @@ -1194,7 +1196,6 @@ d_quraysh;Quraysh;Quraych;;;;;;;;;x | |||
| d_mosylon;Mosylon;;;;;;;;;;x | |||
| d_mundus;Mundus;;;;;;;;;;x | |||
| d_malao;Malao;Malao;;;;;;;;;x | |||
| # Is it Avalites instead? | |||
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The question is relevant and it serves as a reminder.
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I have already said what I think about Boborites and having read about the extension I'm confirmed in that there is no need for it. Incestuous sects and Gnostics will be implemented accordingly once it is released. Feel free to provide input to the plans for then, and I will see if I can code it. Same for the placeholder. The graphic on it is not corresponding to vanilla. |
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The Borborites were their own religion, though strongly influenced by Sethians. They were not incestors, nor were they secretive. As I showed you on my sources in TSP6, they were not only open, but they actually prolestyzed. The Borborites would make a great addition. |
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I will now make the requested changes. |
# Conflicts: # WTWSMS/common/landed_titles/landed_titles.txt # WTWSMS/common/religions/00_religions.txt
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The new EP covers secret Gnostic orders in a time period where they were stamped out. In this Mod, they still exist openly. Therefore, while we will implement the now EP's features for the Gnostics, we should not take them out of the Religion list due to their importance and relevance in this time period. |
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Good, then we can make them open in the mod. |
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I don't understand what you mean. They need to remain in "RELIGIONS.TXT". |
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They can remain wherever you want to put them in your files, and be added as a society once the DLC is released. Until then we still have the code you provided, which we can take out once relevant. |
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They weren't just a society in this time period. They were their own religion. As for the waiting period, you should go ahead and add the Borborites and such (etc. etc.) until the EP comes out. That way, we can have it ready for relocation. |
Reverted items requested by Loup.
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Okay, I reverted what you asked me to. I reccomend that you implement my Pull Request now, but exclude the changes I made to the LI system. |
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I think the material you have mentioned indicate that a sect/society is more fitting. Limited to Sethians perhaps. |
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I am open to the Borborites being made into a sect for the Sethians when the EP comes out, but until then, let us implement it as-is. |
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That makes for a lot of work for little gain. All of the content would have to be discussed, reviewed, validated, tested, without it being available in a new release (we don't plan on publishing another version before the expansion) and then redone once the expansion comes out. Do you really think it is necessary? |
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Well, I spent eight hours on the Borborites, so it does matter to me. If there is some other way to save the files on public record, I'll try it. |
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If it is here, unless you delete it, it remains here. |
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Starting on New Year's Day, I experienced a total and catastrophic hard drive failure on my desktop PC, which is always where I perform my work on the Mod. Due to this, I will be unable to work on this Pull Request until I have received the new hard drive I ordered and have loaded the System Image Backdup on it, good as new. I will, though, attempt to comment here all the same. |
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Once again, I've made a miscommunication. When I said "modular", I did not mean that I make a separate sub-Mod that could be turned on or ff. I meant that all of my additions and changes to the Mod would be their own files in the main Mod stucture (similar to how there is an "enlil_religion" section, etc.). AS an example, my localization for Prisicllians would be under "TSP_priscillians.csv" or a larger "TSP.csv". I would still be putting everything in the Mod. That would end most conflicts and greatly speed up the Mod's evaluation process, because my work would be in its own files. Enlil ahs already done this for himself, but when I tried it, you merged it into the other files, causing conflicts and dragging out implementation. |
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Everything is merged in order to avoid conflicts. Separate sets of files cause people to add the same things and make it a hassle to update the mod. Enlil has precisely done what we avoid, which is why his files were merged in the merge too. 😉 The mod is one single entity and our files should reflect that. Otherwise TSP could be a sub-mod, I'm absolutely not opposed to it if you prefer that solution. |
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The problem is that with your system, any changes become immediate conflicts. My Github Desktop system cannot resolve conflicts, which makes my implementatiosn impossible. It also drags my additions out for months. I'll be lucky if I get this implemented before the new Sects EP comes out, or even by summertime! It is far easier to remove duplicates than to deal with the long, gruelling, miserable process of isolating and resolving conflicts. Everything I make conflicts eventually. Just look at it right now: there are FIVE Conflicts that would never have happened if I used my own files like I should be allowed to do. Enlil had the right idea too. Why not just check for duplicates and remove them instea dof banning the most efficient, easily implemented system? I hate having to sit here and wait for you to resolve conflicts manually. If my additions were in separate files, everything would be faster and smoother, and we could easily fix what I need to fix. As for disputes, what specifically are you still challenging? I dropped all of the Roman issues except for the Circus Maximus (which only Romans and Romance characters can even build). I fixed the Byzantine nickname (in which non-Greek characters got the Greek title), and so on and so forth. |
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I prefer solving conflicts now once and for all rather than having to solve issues at every update. Furthermore, if you look into why there are conflicts, you will understand that having separate files wouldn't change anything. Concerning the matters still up for discussion, everything on which I posted my thoughts hasn't changed. |
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Okay, because the new EP is coming out in a week, I'll withdraw everything you objected to so you can immediately approve it. In addition to the Borborites, I made several critical changes to my own previous works and multitudes of adjustments that I consider vital. Dropping the Nicknames and the like is no problem for me if I get this in before March 7th. |
No, I'm not using your Shell faggotry just because you won't commit
# Conflicts: # WTWSMS/decisions/VIET_PB_employment_decisions.txt # WTWSMS/decisions/VIET_West_Africa_decisions.txt # WTWSMS/decisions/WtWSMS_realm_decisions.txt # WTWSMS/events/WtWSMS_religious.txt # WTWSMS/localisation/WtWSMS_decisions.csv # WTWSMS/localisation/WtWSMS_religions.csv
# Conflicts: # WTWSMS/decisions/VIET_PB_employment_decisions.txt # WTWSMS/decisions/VIET_West_Africa_decisions.txt # WTWSMS/decisions/WtWSMS_realm_decisions.txt # WTWSMS/localisation/WtWSMS_decisions.csv # WTWSMS/localisation/WtWSMS_religions.csv
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There. Every single item that you challenged has been reverted to your form. With every challenge dropped, PLEASE implement this Branch as soon as possible!! |
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There is a lot left and some parts are already in the mod, but if you want me to do it I can take care of it. |
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Everything you objected to here, from the Circus Maximus to House the Hun to the Nicknames, have been dropped. As for already in the Mod, I had to make some major changes to the Priscillian Decision and others that you had previously accepted. With your objections gone, this Branch is ready for a wholesale merger. |
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More or less half of what is left still conflicts in one way or another (boborites, code issues, inconsistencies, performance load etc) as explained in the comments, but I will just remove it if that is what you prefer. |
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Not true! I removed the Borborites in the Religion file, which nullifies all Borborite content elsewhere. With it out of the Religion file but still in the code, it'll be ready for the EP's release, in which it will be converted into a Sect that Sethians and certain Gnostics can be embraced. As for the Scripted Triggers, I have no problem removing those. |
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We can't have any references to non-existing religions. That is nest of bugs and reports in the Validator. Not much to discuss on this though, I'm not merging any buggy content. |
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Ah, that makes sense. I'll fix that shortly. More pound signs all around! |
Loup wisely pointed out that this would make the Validator spit out false positives, so per his request, I placed pound signs on every instance of the Borborite code, and files deciated solely to the Borborites have been disabled.
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Okay, everything is fixed. Pound signs are everywhere. |
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And the performance and etc? |
The alleged performance drop does not exist, at least not on my PC.
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Yes, the Triggered Modifiers are disabled, too. |
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The minor bugfixes, graphics additions and localisation changes from this have now been merged. What was left otherwise either generated Validator complaints, either was unused or had been discussed and were thus not integrated as said above. The Borborites can be added as a secret Sethian cult for those with supernatural stuff turned on once the expansion is released, a bit like Satanism. Probably best to put them in an entirely separate sub-mod, given what you said previously. |
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Borborites are not supernatural. They were real and fully grounded in reality. The EP will have an option to disable supernatural cults (the Satanic one) without touching the realistic or possibly placebo ones (Hermetics, Assassins, ect.). However, I agree fully that the Borborites should be a cult for all Gnostics to take. |
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I know they existed, but that was before the mod timeframe and they don't seem to have had any significant ruler. Therefore my understanding is that it is fantasy to have them in the mod as you have done, thus my suggestion of disabling it for those who prefer a historical playthrough. |
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The evidence I showed you last yearvmakes the case for their historical presence in the very start of this time period. I know that they don't have a leader, bit neither do the Sethians, the Tengris, the Norsemen, the Adoptionsts, or most every other minor relugin in this game, but they all can get one. They were an open sect that historians personally interviewed. Likewise, the idea of secret, underground Zalmoxites in Dacia is possible, consisering they were only defeated a hundred or two years back, and Dacia was not exactly under firm Christian control. (They are already in the Mod, but not in the Religions file.) |
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Leader? That is not what I talked about. My point was that they don't seem to have had any nobility as a part of their cult. No, that is not going to be how it works. That religion is getting added, it is already decided. |
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Excellent: I'll add it in myself. I already saw it in the code a while back, so leave it to me. As for the Borborites, there were no KNOWN noblemen in it, but there very easily COULD have been. Remember, the Borborites actively spread their religion, and it COULD have taken off. Its existence was historical in this time period, and I'm excited to put it in the Mod. |
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Sorry, too late for that. I'm already taking care of it and it has been decided internally. All other things you have seen are also probably assigned, so there is not much to be done unless you want to suggest something new and then get it approved. As the Borborites were more or less "evil", they are less plausible. It makes sense to be able to disable them with Satanism. |
Here's hoping I don't ruin everything again. The initial re-additions of TSP6 was a nightmare that took hours.