Metric dovetails #2
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Hi Simon, I'm trying to think of a way around this, but still have good-fitting There's 2 issues. By default, pyRouterJig will round to the nearest 1mm. I don't understand your statement that "Incra metric dovetail templates use Thanks, On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 1:44 AM, Simon Taylor notifications@github.com
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Thanks for that. I meant the templates in the Incra Master Reference Guide Metric Addendum. |
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Ahh, I didn't know about the Addendum. In my Imperial book, there is a Thanks, [image: Inline image 2] On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 8:03 AM, Simon Taylor notifications@github.com
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Thanks Simon. On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 6:23 PM, Simon Taylor notifications@github.com
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Simon, this is going to take me longer to implement than I thought. I'll Thanks, On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 8:31 AM, Rob Lowrie rob@lowrielodge.org wrote:
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No problem. I had a look at the code myself, looks like this breaks some fairly basic assumptions. |
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Hi Simon, I know it's been a while, and you've probably moved on. But I think I may have figured out a way around this, even with the current version. Under the units preference, set "Increments per mm" to 100. The last digit of the bit width needs to be an even number (too complex to explain), so approximate your bit widths as follows: 5/16" -> 7.92 mm With the depth of cut set as in your table, you'll see the program gives the corresponding "Spacing to set depth" numbers, to the nearest mm. EDIT: But then the router passes are obviously placed to within 0.01 mm, which is not attainable with the INCRA. Rounding to the nearest 1 mm might be accurate enough, but this needs to be tested, and I have no way to test it. |
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When I'll get my Incra LS metric I'll test it. So I am sure that everyone who use metric positioner eagerly willing to have full access to it's capabilities. Waiting for metric |
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OK vladsan. I haven't looked at this code in quite a while. |
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Just stumbled onto this...using the original Incra jig...so looking forward to the metric work along |
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Hello. Are you ok if I submit such changes into your stream ? Regards. PS. There are some tricks allows half mm positioning on Incra. So in theory it is possible to have odd cut spacing (I try such tricks but not sure if it make sense to put such feature into the application code) |
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@Valdas2000 Sounds great! If it all possible, can you break the pull requests (changes) into 5 separate pull requests, each corresponding to your list? That It will make it easier for me to review and merge. I can understand that this request might be difficult, but I also fear that all of your changes may reflect a lot of code changes. Also, could you explain more on the 0.5 mm spacing trick? Do you believe this same trick would allow 1/64" spacing for imperial systems? Finally, your message implies that either you've fixed metric for dovetails, at least for imperial bits. Is that true? Do your fixes work for metric bits? Thanks for your interest and work! |
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Hello. I will brake the pull requests. no problem. 0.5mm trick is easy and will work on 1/64 as well. Normally I do the following. Shims works better than micro-adjust.I updated calculation for metric part to get imperial dovetail bits working. |
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@Valdas2000 Ahh, great idea on using the shim. At a minimum, I will put that idea into the documentation. |
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Seems I got Metric working well. |
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That's great, Valdas...feel free to do a pull request whenever you are ready. Looking at your branch, it looks like all the changes are in router.py. Your file formatting may be messed up (I'm not sure), but I can fix that later. Or run pylint. |
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Hello. Does it make sense to commit a binary translation file (qm) as well as ts source ? |
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Can you supply a simple python script/code that uses the ts file? I can see if it works on the Mac. I do not like the idea of binary files in the repo. I'd rather they be downloaded, from a reputable site, but the code user. |
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Have you considered gettext? |
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Hello. The issue with gettext is that it's tricky to use it because python3 recommend to avoid some functionality. That is the reason I bring up QT5 translation way. It offers ability to avoid restart on translation switch. Some more about translation flow for developer (done).1 - create a QTranslation object Localization flow (done 95%):1 - run pylupdate5 (it shipped with pyQT5) over the source file to get ts file created Compile (done on Windows)1 - Compile ts file into qm via lrelease tool. The tool shiped with qttools5-dev-tools. Regards |
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@Valdas2000 I used pylint to clean up a lot of the code. I hope that doesn't ruin anything that you're currently working on. |
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I merged the changes into my code. Sorry it took a little bit while. |
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More issues. |
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If the scale on print is off, try
or if too big,
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Thank you. |
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Well. |
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Hi Rob and Simon. Great that you are trying to find a solution for the Metric LS Positioner which uses Imperial Dovetails and I can only add my encouragement. Trying to get good quality Metric Dovetail bits in the UK is difficult so can’t use the pyrouterjig to create new templates and use Incra's standard templates. Incra provide 51 templates for the Imperial version and only 26 for the Metric so without pyrouterjig we Metric users are missing out big time. |
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Hello David Some years ago I made changes in the project and now it is able to create metric and imperial patterns for metric and Imperial bits. However you can combine metric bits and imperial pattern and reverse. It works well for me. You can try out my fork. Regards |
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Valentin,
many thanks for the insight!
Re “Symmetrical Shoulders”: . So the program shows you different shoulder sizes in case of no micro adjust.
Q: I have a micro adjust which I can use to center. Is there a way to add this option to the program that the shoulders become symmetrical?
Re “Bit depth 19mm on your picture make you join too tied it got 0.33mm overlap. So tenons does not fits into the grooves. It is better to chose bit depth around 14.5mm you will get good fit. The gap is about 0.2mm which is quite fine for a good join.”
Q: This is interesting: There seems to be a misunderstanding by me. “Bit depth” is “the cutting depth of the router bit” - I interpreted this as the maximum possible cutting depth of the router bit (i.e. physical length). But I understand that this is wrong. But what to choose? I wondered already that my board thickness was no parameter anywhere, (in my case it is 10.4 mm thick). I experimented according to the INCRA recommendation with the bit height by making the initial cut tests with two samples starting with a bit height right above the board thickness and then raised it to get a tighter fit. But I failed.
You recommend Where do you get the 14.5 mm from – i.e. is this experience or can I derive this value somewhere from – or is it just above the boards thickness?
Many thanks for the dialog and help!
Best regards,
Rainer
Von: Valdas <notifications@github.com>
Gesendet: Sonntag, 29. November 2020 22:00
An: lowrie/pyRouterJig <pyRouterJig@noreply.github.com>
Cc: RaBuAc <office@buschac.de>; Comment <comment@noreply.github.com>
Betreff: Re: [lowrie/pyRouterJig] Metric dovetails (#2)
Hello.
Q: Line is not really vertical?
A: Yes. It is a bug. The cause is that the Bit Depth is not exact. It is math error in board driving (will be fixed soon). Issue happen when the value is not that recommended 16.29mm. (Bit depth for perfect fits are: 8.14, 16.29, 24.43)
Q: Align to the black or white line ?
A: The black one. (Will remove white lines soon)
Q: Why not symmetrical?
A: Board with in your set is 93mm. The Incra fence have a 1mm positioning step. The board center 46.5mm which is not possible to reach by 1mm steps, you can reach 46 or 45 but not in between. So the program shows you different shoulder sizes in case of no micro adjust.
Q: Old and new version shows the same cut spacing (17mm).
A: Right. Cut spaces are the same. For bit depth around 16.24 it is 17mm for depth 8.14 it is 18mm. There are no big variations because of 1mm step of the fence.
By the way. Bit depth 19mm on your picture make you join too tied it got 0.33mm overlap. So tenons does not fits into the grooves. It is better to chose bit depth around 14.5mm you will get good fit. The gap is about 0.2mm which is quite fine for a good join.
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Q: I have a micro adjust which I can use to center. Is there a way to add this option to the program that the shoulders become symmetrical? Re “Bit depth 19mm on your picture make you join too tied it got 0.33mm overlap. So tenons does not fits into the grooves. It is better to chose bit depth around 14.5mm you will get good fit. The gap is about 0.2mm which is quite fine for a good join.” Q:But what to choose? I wondered already that my board thickness was no parameter anywhere, (in my case it is 10.4 mm thick). I experimented according to the INCRA recommendation with the bit height by making the initial cut tests with two samples starting with a bit height right above the board thickness and then raised it to get a tighter fit. But I failed.
I assume you have 10.4 mm thick boards. So with your bit setup you can make Half Blind Dovetail join with your template. Q: You recommend Where do you get the 14.5 mm from – i.e. is this experience or can I derive this value somewhere from – or is it just above the boards thickness? Some WIKI about gap visualization The setup story:
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Valentin,
wow – many thanks to you spending so much time.
Unfortunately I do still have some questions/clarification:
1. Re: Micro Adjustments to perfectly symmetrical cuts (shoulders are the same):
I do not understand the complexity of the setup process.
Let me refer to Robert Lowries alignment procedure: “The ALIGN line is located ½ the bit width on the outside of the right edge of the board. Therefore if you align the bit flush with the fence and then position the template at the ALIGN line, your template will be properly positioned”
-> In case of unsymmetrical shoulders I can center micro adjust the fence so accurate that the shoulder can be symmetrical. If I then position the marker to the ALIGN line it should be all OK for the rest of the cuts.
Your note does indicate I need to do this several times?
2. First of all some definitions (to clarify if I understand these correctly)
a. Overlap:= -Gap, if (Gap <=0) If a Gap is calculated <=0 then this is shown as GAP=0 and Overlap = Gap:
Overlap should be 0:
If the Fingers (pins) and tails do “overlap”, the fingers are wider than the tails, the fingers do not fit into the tails
b. Gap:=-Overlap if (Overlap =< 0): If Gap is calculated >=0 then this is shown as GAP=Gap and Overlap = 0:
Gap should be > 0, but very close to 0 (best in 1/10 of mm?):
If the Gap is > 0 , then there is some “space” between the fingers and the tails. This means the fingers have some room to “move” and therefore the fit is not optimal.
c. Adjustment of Overlap and Gap with the Bit Depth:
- The Gap and Overlap is shown in GREEN or RED depending if this is a valid setting or not
- Procedure for THROUGH dovetails:
a) Set the Bit Depth to the Board Thickness (because THROUGH dovetails)
b.) Is the Gap >= 0 near 0 (GREEN Colored) -> yes OK
c.) If the Gap is <0 (Overlap >0) (RED colored) then increase Bit Depth by 0.1 mm –> Goto b.
Example: Board Width = 93mm; Bit Width = 19mm; Bit Angle = 7°
a.) Set Bit Depth = 10.3 -> Gap = 0; Overlap = 0.265 -> RED
b.) After some iterations over b,c) the setting Bit Depth = 15.9 mm leads to a Gap = 0.048 and a Overlap = 0 -> GREEN
-> Therefore the right setting for this 10.3 thick mm board with THROUGH dovetails and the given bit is Bit Depth= 15.9 mm !
Is this correctly summarized?
3. I have the Sauter OFL 3.0 lift which can be adjusted in height 1/10 mm
https://www.sautershop.de/oberfraesenlift-set-ofl3.0-suhner-ual-23-rf-fraesmotor-set-ofl3-s1800?c=15183
Best regards,
Rainer
Von: Valdas <notifications@github.com>
Gesendet: Montag, 30. November 2020 16:19
An: lowrie/pyRouterJig <pyRouterJig@noreply.github.com>
Cc: RaBuAc <office@buschac.de>; Comment <comment@noreply.github.com>
Betreff: Re: [lowrie/pyRouterJig] Metric dovetails (#2)
Q: I have a micro adjust which I can use to center. Is there a way to add this option to the program that the shoulders become symmetrical?
A: It is possible to add an option but the fence setup procedure became more complex. Also, the "price" for the feature is that you have to re-setup fence too often. In general it looks like not not a big deal to setup fence to the center of the bit than do surface cuts (for Half Blind Dovetails joints you need to cut the board surface to half with of the bit). But than you have to shift fence forward for 0.5mm. Now put your template inside and align black line. After that you can make cuts. After that don't forget to setup fence back :) So there is no changes in template itself but in the workflow.
That twist can be tricky for beginners and really hard on complex custom joins when various bit diameters used.
Re “Bit depth 19mm on your picture make you join too tied it got 0.33mm overlap. So tenons does not fits into the grooves. It is better to chose bit depth around 14.5mm you will get good fit. The gap is about 0.2mm which is quite fine for a good join.”
Q: This is interesting: There seems to be a misunderstanding by me. “Bit depth” is “the cutting depth of the router bit” - I interpreted this as the maximum possible cutting depth of the router bit (i.e. physical length). But I understand that this is wrong.
A: Heh! That is the trick which Incra does not share. Bit depth on Incra Dovetail workflow is to manage tight of the join ;) (That is the main difference with the regular tenon machines like Leigh Super Jig which manages join tight by cut distance).
Here is some information about the template: https://github.com/Valdas2000/pyRouterJig/wiki/How-to-read-template
Q:But what to choose? I wondered already that my board thickness was no parameter anywhere, (in my case it is 10.4 mm thick). I experimented according to the INCRA recommendation with the bit height by making the initial cut tests with two samples starting with a bit height right above the board thickness and then raised it to get a tighter fit. But I failed.
A: Let's start from the basic setup. And than make a Half Blind Dovetails with your bit V7 D12.7 (that you used for your first template). It is a little bit improved because we know the perfect fit overhang ;). The tricky point is to move from tight to loose join (otherwise setup workflow does not work).
So the steps are following (need 2 boards of any thickness):
1. Set bit depth to 6mm and make cuts on your test boards line on Incra instructions. They would not fit if you try because join is too tight.
2. Now move bit down and set bit depth to 5mm. Cut the boards over existing groves and try try to fit (better but yet tight)
3. Low down the bit by 0.5mm. and cut over the existent groves. Soon you'll got good fit. (There would be a gap at the top but do not wary it will be setup step only). It is better to setup every time you change settings. (refer to the story at the end of the mail)
…_____
I assume you have 10.4 mm thick boards. So with your bit setup you can make Half Blind Dovetail join with your template.
(definitely need to take some pictures from the process)
Q: You recommend Where do you get the 14.5 mm from – i.e. is this experience or can I derive this value somewhere from – or is it just above the boards thickness?
A: It is easy. You can change bit depth and application advice you perfect fit overhang. I just walk from 3mm to the bit diameter and got all suggested overhangs. Different bits have different maximum depth of cut. Be careful and never exceed it. The application have no limits on that. Usually you have 2 perfect fit depths for the bit. Depend on that and type of the join you can choose thickness of the boards.
The setup story:
Probably you have Master Lift or something similar in your table. The lift offer 1/32' precision. The bad news is that once you locks the lift it moves into unpredictable way so bit depth changed (+-0.07mm). (I mount precised digital ruler onto my lift and can manage this issue). It happen because the helical gear is free running so the lock shifts the router a little.
So. Setup is essential step. And for depth adjustments I discovered the flowing rules.
1. Already increase depth of cut if possible.
2. Use 2 keys for lift movement. Keep movement key fixed while lock the setup with a second key.
3. In case you need decrease the cut it's better to already decrease step by step.
4. Never try to play with low and top movements - it never works.
5. Router bit angle is never exact. For well known brands (Freud, CMT, Leitz) precision is fine but for chip bits the angle floats for about +-0.3 degree. For such chip bits it's better to measure angle with a special tools.
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Unfortunately I do still have some questions/clarification:
-> In case of unsymmetrical shoulders I can center micro adjust the fence so accurate that the shoulder can be symmetrical. If I then position the marker to the ALIGN line it should be all OK for the rest of the cuts. 2. First of all some definitions (to clarify if I understand these correctly) b. Gap:=-Overlap if (Overlap =< 0): If Gap is calculated >=0 then this is shown as GAP=Gap and Overlap = 0: A: In most cases you need some space. It depends on material and glue. Most of D3 glues consists water. Wood swells in water more or less so you need some room to join. It is also depends on materials. Palm swells more than oak but less than pine. However for D4 PUR glues family does not have the issue because PU glue pulls out water from most of materials. c. Adjustment of Overlap and Gap with the Bit Depth: - Procedure for THROUGH dovetails: A: Good Idea but the bad news is that in most cases it is impossible to marry board with and bit depth because they not love each other ;). So it is nice to have a set of bits and pick the proper one. Secret rule is that the bit diameter shell be close to the board thickness (it is from old old woodworking books that recommend use the bit with bit diameter close to the board thickness +1mm -0.5mm). Example: Board Width = 93mm; Bit Width = 19mm; Bit Angle = 7° A: Heh. Seems 19mm bit is not the best choice for your boards. That is why we have set of dovetail bits. I'd recommend V8 3/8" or V14 1/2 (that one is perfect) and get your flow works (wide of fingers is not an issue because we have an application). However it is yet possibility to get your bit working but the flow is more complex and you'll need more routing works. Also additional 45 degree bit like Yonico 13921 or similar required. I prefer this way instead of dancing twist with boards. It also help me to keep designed size of my boxes and make my сolleagues puzzled how dovetails combined with 45 degree join . But it is another long story. It is better to start from easy joints to setup own workflows. 3. I have the Sauter OFL 3.0 lift which can be adjusted in height 1/10 mm I've got https://www.incrementaltools.com/INCRA_Mast_R_Lift_II_p/incra-mast-r-lift-ii.htm (inch version offer 1/64" precision) and supply it with Digital Readout (not the Incra one but it offers 0.01mm step and 0.06mm accuracy) so precise positioning is not an issue for me anymore. |
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Valentin,
I have followed your recommendation and used another bit.
But the generated template looks odd – see the left and right shoulders in this file:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QfCEAk_VBLZuL6MPTbyWPVlJw1cGEFjU/view?usp=sharing
What is wrong?
Best regards,
Rainer
Von: Valdas <notifications@github.com>
Gesendet: Dienstag, 1. Dezember 2020 21:57
An: lowrie/pyRouterJig <pyRouterJig@noreply.github.com>
Cc: RaBuAc <office@buschac.de>; Comment <comment@noreply.github.com>
Betreff: Re: [lowrie/pyRouterJig] Metric dovetails (#2)
Unfortunately I do still have some questions/clarification:
1. Re: Micro Adjustments to perfectly symmetrical cuts (shoulders are the same):
I do not understand the complexity of the setup process.
You have to try. For me it is better to have even board sizes and never play with fence position. More setup consumes more time and lead to mistakes.
-> In case of unsymmetrical shoulders I can center micro adjust the fence so accurate that the shoulder can be symmetrical. If I then position the marker to the ALIGN line it should be all OK for the rest of the cuts.
Your note does indicate I need to do this several times?
Right. Once you change fence position the template stay correct because you just change you start point but cut distance remains the same. You just need to micro-august fence at proper workflow stage.
2. First of all some definitions (to clarify if I understand these correctly)
a. Overlap:= -Gap, if (Gap <=0) If a Gap is calculated <=0 then this is shown as GAP=0 and Overlap = Gap:
Overlap should be 0:
If the Fingers (pins) and tails do “overlap”, the fingers are wider than the tails, the fingers do not fit into the tails
A: In most cases overlap is not welcome but there are some exceptions. For instance cork and balsa need tine overlap because such kind of wood are very soft.
b. Gap:=-Overlap if (Overlap =< 0): If Gap is calculated >=0 then this is shown as GAP=Gap and Overlap = 0:
Gap should be > 0, but very close to 0 (best in 1/10 of mm?):
If the Gap is > 0 , then there is some “space” between the fingers and the tails. This means the fingers have some room to “move” and therefore the fit is not optimal.
A: In most cases you need some space. It depends on material and glue. Most of D3 glues consists water. Wood swells in water more or less so you need some room to join. It is also depends on materials. Palm swells more than oak but less than pine. However for D4 PUR glues family does not have the issue because PU glue pulls out water from most of materials.
For some of my projects I use "old school" bone glue (big gap because it is a hot glue) and some time fish glue (perfect gap because the glue is thin). In some rare cases garlic glue (it is perfect for gilding) is also fine. So the gap must be manageable.
c. Adjustment of Overlap and Gap with the Bit Depth:
The Gap and Overlap is shown in GREEN or RED depending if this is a valid setting or not
A: The green zone by default is set to 0.25 mm. For me 0.2mm is is perfect for D3 glue and red wood or European oak. I prefer long exposure time so swell is not an issue.
You can set your own green zone:
Tools->Preferences->Misc: Warning Gap (mm)
- Procedure for THROUGH dovetails:
a) Set the Bit Depth to the Board Thickness (because THROUGH dovetails)
b.) Is the Gap >= 0 near 0 (GREEN Colored) -> yes OK
c.) If the Gap is <0 (Overlap >0) (RED colored) then increase Bit Depth by 0.1 mm –> Goto b.
A: Good Idea but the bad news is that in most cases it is impossible to marry board with and bit depth because they not love each other ;). So it is nice to have a set of bits and pick the proper one. Secret rule is that the bit diameter shell be close to the board thickness (it is from old old woodworking books).
Example: Board Width = 93mm; Bit Width = 19mm; Bit Angle = 7°
a.) Set Bit Depth = 10.3 -> Gap = 0; Overlap = 0.265 -> RED
b.) After some iterations over b,c) the setting Bit Depth = 15.9 mm leads to a Gap = 0.048 and a Overlap = 0 -> GREEN
-> Therefore the right setting for this 10.3 thick mm board with THROUGH dovetails and the given bit is Bit Depth= 15.9 mm !
A: Heh. Seems 19mm bit is not the best choice for your boards. That is why we have set of dovetail bits. I'd recommend V8 3/8" and get your flow works (wide of fingers is not an issue because we have an application).
I also now sure if your 19mm bit allow such a deep cut. And there are some points why it is better to not have cuts lot deeper than the board thickness longer than 1mm (it can be nice design feature).
However it is yet possibility to get your bit working but the flow is more complex and you'll need more routing works. Also additional 45 degree bit like Yonico 13921 or similar required. I prefer this way instead of dancing twist with boards. It also help me to keep designed size of my boxes and make my сolleagues puzzled how dovetails combined with 45 degree join . But it is another long story. It is better to start from easy joints to setup own workflows.
3. I have the Sauter OFL 3.0 lift which can be adjusted in height 1/10 mm
https://www.sautershop.de/oberfraesenlift-set-ofl3.0-suhner-ual-23-rf-fraesmotor-set-ofl3-s1800?c=15183
All of lifts have some free run.
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I have followed your recommendation and used another bit. Hello. Seems you warned that that right finger would be cut off. In case the thinnest finger part is less 1mm the program cuts it off (as you will get in reality). It is safe to have about 2-3mm You can change minimal finger width. PS. Seems there is a bug. 7-6.35 <1 so the right finger have to be cut off as well. Best regards, |
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Valentin,
1. Where do I see the warning?
2. I do not understand why the program does not shift simply the whole pattern to the left, i.e. create equal shoulders of 7.85 mm? Yes, there will then be not an center cut (3A) , but that shouldn’t matter for me.
I seem to miss something or is the solution so simple – offset by 4.5 mm to the left and all is OK.
Best regards,
Rainer
Von: Valdas <notifications@github.com>
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 3. Dezember 2020 17:45
An: lowrie/pyRouterJig <pyRouterJig@noreply.github.com>
Cc: RaBuAc <office@buschac.de>; Comment <comment@noreply.github.com>
Betreff: Re: [lowrie/pyRouterJig] Metric dovetails (#2)
I have followed your recommendation and used another bit.
But the generated template looks odd – see the left and right shoulders in this file:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QfCEAk_VBLZuL6MPTbyWPVlJw1cGEFjU/view?usp=sharing
What is wrong?
Hello. Seems you warned that that right finger would be cut off. In case the thinnest finger part is less 1mm the program cuts it off (as you will get in reality). It is safe to have about 2-3mm
You can change minimal finger width.
Tools->Preferences->Min Finger Width.
However application does not allow to set less than 1mm because it is against reality.
Best regards,
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1. Where do I see the warning? 2. I do not understand why the program does not shift simply the whole pattern to the left, i.e. create equal shoulders of 7.85 mm? Yes, there will then be not an center cut (3A) , but that shouldn’t matter for me. I seem to miss something or is the solution so simple – offset by 4.5 mm to the left and all is OK. Best regards |
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Valentin,
there is another issue I think.
Look at this template (now for 100mm wide board)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/10P5rygdvOctF-p2SUHaWUdRYWs0edO3u/view?usp=sharing
I use the align procedure from Robert Lowries:
“The ALIGN line is located ½ the bit width on the outside of the right edge of the board. Therefore if you align the bit flush with the fence and then position the template at the ALIGN line, your template will be properly positioned”
Issue:
“The ALIGN line is located ½ the bit width on the outside of the right edge of the board… “ This is not true in the pattern above. 1B is the same as ALIGN, there is not NO cut on the 1B mark if I would use Roberts alignment procedure.
So has the definition of the ALIGN mark changed in your version to Roberts?
Best regards,
Rainer
Von: Valdas <notifications@github.com>
Gesendet: Freitag, 4. Dezember 2020 09:28
An: lowrie/pyRouterJig <pyRouterJig@noreply.github.com>
Cc: RaBuAc <office@buschac.de>; Comment <comment@noreply.github.com>
Betreff: Re: [lowrie/pyRouterJig] Metric dovetails (#2)
1. Where do I see the warning?
No warning implemented yet. Application just cut off the finger :(
2. I do not understand why the program does not shift simply the whole pattern to the left, i.e. create equal shoulders of 7.85 mm? Yes, there will then be not an center cut (3A) , but that shouldn’t matter for me.
The issue is that there should be a note somewhere on the template that the fence shell be microa-dgusted. Otherwise it can be an issue for template users.
I seem to miss something or is the solution so simple – offset by 4.5 mm to the left and all is OK.
Nice idea for backlog. Center feature for dovetails need to be reworked. (1-2 weeks because I have to test it in workshop)
Best regards,
Rainer
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_Q: Issue: “The ALIGN line is located ½ the bit width on the outside of the right edge of the board… “ |
|
Valentin,
I recalled having seen this – but this is different to Robert, isn’t it!
I feel this is not optimal because to align something flash is easier and more exact than to align something to the center of the bit (because the center is not really exactly marked).
Best regards,
Rainer
Von: Valdas <notifications@github.com>
Gesendet: Freitag, 4. Dezember 2020 15:05
An: lowrie/pyRouterJig <pyRouterJig@noreply.github.com>
Cc: RaBuAc <office@buschac.de>; Comment <comment@noreply.github.com>
Betreff: Re: [lowrie/pyRouterJig] Metric dovetails (#2)
Q: _Issue:
“The ALIGN line is located ½ the bit width on the outside of the right edge of the board… “
...
So has the definition of the ALIGN mark changed in your version to Roberts?_
A: Please refer
https://github.com/Valdas2000/pyRouterJig/wiki/PyRouterJig-Metric.-Fense-setup-instructions
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I recalled having seen this – but this is different to Robert, isn’t it! I feel this is not optimal because to align something flash is easier and more exact than to align something to the center of the bit (because the center is not really exactly marked). Here my reasons:
|
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Valentin,
interesting aspects.
I buy into the argument that aligning to the center of the bit is better when changing bits.
I also see your point of getting error having not exactly 90° of the bit. This is not so relevant for small bits, but becomes more and more impotant for bigger bits (I did some calculations 😉
I see your argument with imperial bits (5) , centering is easier and will make it easier with 3/4 and center gove. But at the same time, make with say a bit of 5/8 inch (15,875mm) a 1 mm cut at the edge of the board – you need to offset by 14,875 mm. Then you need to align to the edge I assume – or- how would you do that?
So, in essence, you seem to be have much experience for the various use cases (which I do not have yet) – are you professional woodworker?
Anyhow many thanks for sharing your experience.
Btw. I have now ordered a V-Grove bit and will try it with the doughtails the next day – keep you posted.
Best regards,
Rainer
Von: Valdas <notifications@github.com>
Gesendet: Samstag, 5. Dezember 2020 12:38
An: lowrie/pyRouterJig <pyRouterJig@noreply.github.com>
Cc: RaBuAc <office@buschac.de>; Comment <comment@noreply.github.com>
Betreff: Re: [lowrie/pyRouterJig] Metric dovetails (#2)
I recalled having seen this – but this is different to Robert, isn’t it!
A: Setup is a little bit difference. Robert set the fence the bit corner (it works fine when imperial and metrics lives separately). For me it is unproductive workflow. I'd like to work instead of setup which is a waste of my time.
I feel this is not optimal because to align something flash is easier and more exact than to align something to the center of the bit (because the center is not really exactly marked).
Here my reasons:
1. Center setup is easy as 123. Use any v-grooving or laser point bit for centered setup (like CMT 915.095.11). You got the exact center and only need to set your fence. It is lot more accurate than the visual style setup. It is easy to return back to the setup (you even can markup the fence position on the table).
2. The center setup 10 times faster. With such setup you don't need to rotate bit to get proper edge position (are you sure you got 90 degree of the bevel). No need to look thru the fence (are you sure the point of the bevel touching the plane of the fence). Oh yes! There is also no need to get a ruler and blunt router bit verifying if it is "slightly touch" the ruler.
3. You've got a single setup style. So you are already know the fence micro-shift (+05mm is most all that you need). With the center setup you don't need to re-setup once you change one bit to another. It is really hard to setup again and again and again finding the corner. Once you got the center setup there is no matter what is the diameter of the bit. You fence is already set fine and you know exact micro august value in case you need to set to the edge (in such rare cases I needed that setup) .
4. Metric micro august does not work for imperial (inch) bits and reverse. Try to get to the edge of 11/16" bit... Surprize! 11/16" = 17.4625mm so you have to shift fence on 8.73125. Then you can do the same for 1/2" = 12.7 so you have to shift fence for 6.35mm. All of that is not a big deal on imperial system but quite hard in metric.
5. My setup works well for metric and router bits produces correct steps and cuts. In case we setup by radius for imperial (inch) bits we lost precise positioning ability. As an example try to setup 3/4 inch straight bit in Roberts style and make a center groove in a 100mm wide board.
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Q: I see your argument with imperial bits (5) , centering is easier and will make it easier with 3/4 and center groove. But at the same time, make with say a bit of 5/8 inch (15,875mm) a 1 mm cut at the edge of the board – you need to offset by 14,875 mm. Then you need to align to the edge I assume – or- how would you do that? A: It is a little off-topic. Here we deal with dovetail imperial bits. But straight bits are metric so I answering your question I will use any metric straight bit to cut whole millimeters off ;) Another option is to use imperial Wonder Fence on the metric Incra. It is equate exotic setup for the real cool cats. However I use imperial straight bits.
So, in essence, you seem to be have much experience for the various use cases (which I do not have yet) – are you professional woodworker? Btw. I have now ordered a V-Grove bit and will try it with the doughtails the next day – keep you posted. Hope to here from you soon. |
|
Valentin,
I now have my first trial – unsuccessfully in various ways. See details below.
Pictures :
<https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1UFw5a_nUUQKTPYRYnZThI0AdLqshqX2K?usp=sharing> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1UFw5a_nUUQKTPYRYnZThI0AdLqshqX2K?usp=sharing
Pic 1,2 : My work bench
Pic 3 : Setting bit Depth according INCRA recommendation
* leads to 10,8 mm
* See “Setting up bit depth update by INCRA” at the end – I set bit depth to 10 mm!
(btw. This is very near to the 10.1 mm used for the template!)
Pic 4: two sides cut
Pic 5,6: Horizontal cur of the Pin board – lead to crash of the bit with the stop-shop.
I started at the one end, and moved step by step to the next A-cut
Then, moving over to the outmost left cut, the router bit crashed into the stop I
have used to not cur too deep. But law this must happen, because the depth of
cut is 10mm, the router bit has 12,7 mm diameter – stands out. Therefore by
moving the fence over the router cut into the stop. How to move without
this problem –this must necessary happen!
Pic 7: Pins cut horizontal, but very little only – this seems to be odd…
Pic 8-10: Pin and Tailboard matched. Doesn’t look too good!
Questions
1) Now what is the right setup of the bit depth – according to the corrected INCRA guide I did all correct ( I might better have used 10.1 mm)
2.) If I would have used 10.8 according to the “original guideline” (do test cuts until you see a tight match -see Pic 3)
– do I have to create a template with 10.8 mm (this seems to be near to the value “(10.83 mm)” given in the template -> is this accidental or what does the 10.83 mm value mean?
3.) How do I avoid the crash of the bit and the stop?
Looking forward to your guidance.
Best regards,
Rainer
p.s Now I ordered a replacement of the bit. I hope I will get this soon for further tests.
…--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Setting up the bit depth – Issue and comment INCRA
Video: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o66q0NAUwe0> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o66q0NAUwe0
In comment section : <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGihHxmirdzwmwnZJxjJzKg> Tom LeTourneau <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o66q0NAUwe0&lc=Ugwx7DIMENxqHVIwG9p4AaABAg> vor 8 Monaten
“Incra Comments LS Positioner Troubleshooting Through Dovetails Recently a customer had a problem getting through dovetail to fit correctly. The depth of cut on the template was much smaller than reality. He was using the template 16 (MDOVI) with a 16 mm / 7 deg router bit and 15 mm thick stock. Depth of cut was approx. 15 mm on the template but his test was 16 mm plus. We tested the depth of cut ourselves, and found the true depth for a tight fit was 16.65 mm, a big difference. Our experience with the templates for half blind dovetails was a difference of less than .5 mm. Something was wrong. Cutting the joint confirmed our fears; the tails and pins were too long by 1.5 mm. Sure, you can plane or sand the ends flush, but this is not the idea from Incra. OK, in the instructions it says to set the depth of cut, AND THEN, plane the stock to just on or just under the depth of cut – never lower the bit to the thickness of the stock as the joint will be too loose. This would mean using stock approx. 16.6 mm thick for our customer’s project. If you have a thicknesser at home, this will work, but what about stock bought from a shop, at 15 mm thick? The solution is to ignore that depth of cut setup. Firstly, centre the router bit to the stock (usually step 2). Remember here, to centre the bit, you actually don’t need to have the bit at the final correct height. We centred with the bit at only 10 mm or so. Then set the bit height at just on the thickness of the stock – here, 14.95 mm. Then you can proceed with the 3 cutting stages needed for a through dovetail. When we tried this, the result was a tight fitting joint. So, half blind dovetails with the LS Positioner are more forgiving regarding stock and router bit height, but through dovetails is easy to produce with the system, with a bit more thought regarding stock selection.”
Von: Valdas <notifications@github.com>
Gesendet: Sonntag, 6. Dezember 2020 19:52
An: lowrie/pyRouterJig <pyRouterJig@noreply.github.com>
Cc: RaBuAc <office@buschac.de>; Comment <comment@noreply.github.com>
Betreff: Re: [lowrie/pyRouterJig] Metric dovetails (#2)
Q: I see your argument with imperial bits (5) , centering is easier and will make it easier with 3/4 and center groove. But at the same time, make with say a bit of 5/8 inch (15,875mm) a 1 mm cut at the edge of the board – you need to offset by 14,875 mm. Then you need to align to the edge I assume – or- how would you do that?
A: It is a little off-topic. Here we deal with dovetail imperial bits. But straight bits are metric so I answering your question I will use any metric straight bit to cut whole millimeters off ;)
Another option is to use imperial Wonder Fence on the metric Incra. It is equate exotic setup for the real cool cats.
However I use imperial straight bits.
1. The great benefit of them is when need to make grooves for sliders. It is easy to make 3/8 (9.52 mm) center grove and then make 9mm slider. With 5/8" it is easy to make even more weak slider etc.
2. Imperial bits are perfect when need to cut out less then 1mm. 5/8 for ~0.45, 1/2 for ~0.35 , 3/8 for ~0.25 and no micro-august all works "from the box". I need no setup - just uses a proper imperial straight bit.
3. Use imperial bits everywhere where the diameter is not essential. The point is the 1/2" shank is more stable than 12mm. So plane, door making, stile and rail, top edge etc.
4. USA made join bits are amazing (Freud). So I developed a workflow to use them (using spring steel sheet shims to get 0.15mm micro adjusts)
So, in essence, you seem to be have much experience for the various use cases (which I do not have yet) – are you professional woodworker?
A: Professional are the guys who make money on woodworking. I am just a 20 year experience amateur making furniture and funny gifts for me and my friends on weekends and vacations.
Btw. I have now ordered a V-Grove bit and will try it with the doughtails the next day – keep you posted.
A: Actually you don't need hi-end V-Grove until you doing engraving decor or play in free routing doing epoxy screaming arts.
Hope to here from you soon.
Some pictures appreciated
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Hello. 1) Now what is the right setup of the bit depth – according to the corrected INCRA guide I did all correct ( I might better have used 10.1 mm)
2.) If I would have used 10.8 according to the “original guideline” (do test cuts until you see a tight match -see Pic 3) 10.83 is the depth for perfect join (0gap). 10.1 gives you a 0.18 gap. 3.) How do I avoid the crash of the bit and the stop?
Next weekend is yours! I will made some pictures for you. |
|
Hallo Valentin,
I hope you are well and had a merry Christmas (don’t know if you celebrate) and a happy new year eve!
To follow up with my experiments I have done two further rounds (after I have received the new bit). With 10.9 mm (should be zero gap) and 9.1 mm (right above the board thickness – trying out the INCRA recommendation I sent to you some mails before). Both results were not satisfying,
1.)
Test with 10.9 mm (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1AaZOYVFXHzfQO5ORFA61kRauy-sYYXCn?usp=sharing) -> not really satisfying!
2.)
Test with INCAR recommendation to ignore depth setting and set depth of bit just above the thickness of board
(https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/13EEqMvyMyXO381XxXSV1mScjV9nIMPCg?usp=sharing) -> too big gaps
3.)
Then I started to dig deeper into the calulcation of gap and overlap. You can find the resultws here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XVLzq7U4YC5SAopdWWJ7LnMtn4Dr9NWs/view?usp=sharing) . I think there is a error in the display of the gap and overlap in the program. But that doesn’t make a difference I think.
I come somehow to the conclusion that the fence doesn’t really support through dovetails. Maybe you have some more guidance to me?
Best regards,
Rainer
Von: Valdas <notifications@github.com>
Gesendet: Sonntag, 13. Dezember 2020 20:55
An: lowrie/pyRouterJig <pyRouterJig@noreply.github.com>
Cc: RaBuAc <office@buschac.de>; Comment <comment@noreply.github.com>
Betreff: Re: [lowrie/pyRouterJig] Metric dovetails (#2)
Hello.
You've got nice result with plywood. My first try on it was even more worst. (Some fingers were completely broken). In general plywood is not the good material for routing.
1) Now what is the right setup of the bit depth – according to the corrected INCRA guide I did all correct ( I might better have used 10.1 mm)
A: There are many tiny tings impacts the join.
1. Hold your desk well (using clamps)
2. Avoid your router movements.
3. Make sure you clamp your Incra well (there are 2step hold).
4. The plywood is your headache. Try to start from natural wood (pine is good, birch is better).
5. For the first time try join with minimum operations. Straight fingers first time is better than dovetail.
2.) If I would have used 10.8 according to the “original guideline” (do test cuts until you see a tight match -see Pic 3)
– do I have to create a template with 10.8 mm (this seems to be near to the value “(10.83 mm)” given in the template -> is this accidental or what does the 10.83 mm value mean?
A: You need no other templates. The one you made is just fine.
However I strongly recommend to start from a simple straight fingers join (10mm bit).
Also. It is better to use solid wood.
10.83 is the depth for perfect join (0gap). 10.1 gives you a 0.18 gap.
3.) How do I avoid the crash of the bit and the stop?
1. Use a back board (soft solid wood only. Pine is the best). Pic3 there is a back board but it was plywood.
2. Plywood is never flat. Use 2 clamps to avoid any possibility of shift and rotation.
3. You probably seen wooden clamp on Incra's promo. The point is to use wood everywhere. Your instrument (router bit) can cut the wood.
4. Here we returned back to the small first fingers. I use 2mm wooden shim clamped to my fence. So I not care if it broken on some unlucky day.
Next weekend is yours! I will made some pictures for you.
I have to complete temporary doors for your new house (hope to done that in a week) .
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Hello.
I am a little bit off because of covid-19. Hope to be back in 2-3 weeks.
By the way Happy New Year!
…On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 1:47 PM RaBuAc ***@***.***> wrote:
Hallo Valentin,
I hope you are well and had a merry Christmas (don’t know if you
celebrate) and a happy new year eve!
To follow up with my experiments I have done two further rounds (after I
have received the new bit). With 10.9 mm (should be zero gap) and 9.1 mm
(right above the board thickness – trying out the INCRA recommendation I
sent to you some mails before). Both results were not satisfying,
1.)
Test with 10.9 mm (
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1AaZOYVFXHzfQO5ORFA61kRauy-sYYXCn?usp=sharing)
-> not really satisfying!
2.)
Test with INCAR recommendation to ignore depth setting and set depth of
bit just above the thickness of board
(
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/13EEqMvyMyXO381XxXSV1mScjV9nIMPCg?usp=sharing)
-> too big gaps
3.)
Then I started to dig deeper into the calulcation of gap and overlap. You
can find the resultws here (
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XVLzq7U4YC5SAopdWWJ7LnMtn4Dr9NWs/view?usp=sharing)
. I think there is a error in the display of the gap and overlap in the
program. But that doesn’t make a difference I think.
I come somehow to the conclusion that the fence doesn’t really support
through dovetails. Maybe you have some more guidance to me?
Best regards,
Rainer
Von: Valdas ***@***.***>
Gesendet: Sonntag, 13. Dezember 2020 20:55
An: lowrie/pyRouterJig ***@***.***>
Cc: RaBuAc ***@***.***>; Comment ***@***.***>
Betreff: Re: [lowrie/pyRouterJig] Metric dovetails (#2)
Hello.
You've got nice result with plywood. My first try on it was even more
worst. (Some fingers were completely broken). In general plywood is not the
good material for routing.
1) Now what is the right setup of the bit depth – according to the
corrected INCRA guide I did all correct ( I might better have used 10.1 mm)
A: There are many tiny tings impacts the join.
1. Hold your desk well (using clamps)
2. Avoid your router movements.
3. Make sure you clamp your Incra well (there are 2step hold).
4. The plywood is your headache. Try to start from natural wood (pine is
good, birch is better).
5. For the first time try join with minimum operations. Straight fingers
first time is better than dovetail.
2.) If I would have used 10.8 according to the “original guideline” (do
test cuts until you see a tight match -see Pic 3)
– do I have to create a template with 10.8 mm (this seems to be near to
the value “(10.83 mm)” given in the template -> is this accidental or what
does the 10.83 mm value mean?
A: You need no other templates. The one you made is just fine.
However I strongly recommend to start from a simple straight fingers join
(10mm bit).
Also. It is better to use solid wood.
10.83 is the depth for perfect join (0gap). 10.1 gives you a 0.18 gap.
3.) How do I avoid the crash of the bit and the stop?
1. Use a back board (soft solid wood only. Pine is the best). Pic3 there
is a back board but it was plywood.
2. Plywood is never flat. Use 2 clamps to avoid any possibility of shift
and rotation.
3. You probably seen wooden clamp on Incra's promo. The point is to use
wood everywhere. Your instrument (router bit) can cut the wood.
4. Here we returned back to the small first fingers. I use 2mm wooden shim
clamped to my fence. So I not care if it broken on some unlucky day.
Next weekend is yours! I will made some pictures for you.
I have to complete temporary doors for your new house (hope to done that
in a week) .
—
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Regards
Valentin
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Valentin,
I hope you will get healthy soon. Wish you all the best.
Best regards,
Rainer
Von: Valdas <notifications@github.com>
Gesendet: Montag, 4. Januar 2021 18:34
An: lowrie/pyRouterJig <pyRouterJig@noreply.github.com>
Cc: RaBuAc <office@buschac.de>; Comment <comment@noreply.github.com>
Betreff: Re: [lowrie/pyRouterJig] Metric dovetails (#2)
Hello.
I am a little bit off because of covid-19. Hope to be back in 2-3 weeks.
By the way Happy New Year!
…On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 1:47 PM RaBuAc ***@***.*** ***@***.***> > wrote:
Hallo Valentin,
I hope you are well and had a merry Christmas (don’t know if you
celebrate) and a happy new year eve!
To follow up with my experiments I have done two further rounds (after I
have received the new bit). With 10.9 mm (should be zero gap) and 9.1 mm
(right above the board thickness – trying out the INCRA recommendation I
sent to you some mails before). Both results were not satisfying,
1.)
Test with 10.9 mm (
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1AaZOYVFXHzfQO5ORFA61kRauy-sYYXCn?usp=sharing)
-> not really satisfying!
2.)
Test with INCAR recommendation to ignore depth setting and set depth of
bit just above the thickness of board
(
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/13EEqMvyMyXO381XxXSV1mScjV9nIMPCg?usp=sharing)
-> too big gaps
3.)
Then I started to dig deeper into the calulcation of gap and overlap. You
can find the resultws here (
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XVLzq7U4YC5SAopdWWJ7LnMtn4Dr9NWs/view?usp=sharing)
. I think there is a error in the display of the gap and overlap in the
program. But that doesn’t make a difference I think.
I come somehow to the conclusion that the fence doesn’t really support
through dovetails. Maybe you have some more guidance to me?
Best regards,
Rainer
Von: Valdas ***@***.*** ***@***.***> >
Gesendet: Sonntag, 13. Dezember 2020 20:55
An: lowrie/pyRouterJig ***@***.*** ***@***.***> >
Cc: RaBuAc ***@***.*** ***@***.***> >; Comment ***@***.*** ***@***.***> >
Betreff: Re: [lowrie/pyRouterJig] Metric dovetails (#2)
Hello.
You've got nice result with plywood. My first try on it was even more
worst. (Some fingers were completely broken). In general plywood is not the
good material for routing.
1) Now what is the right setup of the bit depth – according to the
corrected INCRA guide I did all correct ( I might better have used 10.1 mm)
A: There are many tiny tings impacts the join.
1. Hold your desk well (using clamps)
2. Avoid your router movements.
3. Make sure you clamp your Incra well (there are 2step hold).
4. The plywood is your headache. Try to start from natural wood (pine is
good, birch is better).
5. For the first time try join with minimum operations. Straight fingers
first time is better than dovetail.
2.) If I would have used 10.8 according to the “original guideline” (do
test cuts until you see a tight match -see Pic 3)
– do I have to create a template with 10.8 mm (this seems to be near to
the value “(10.83 mm)” given in the template -> is this accidental or what
does the 10.83 mm value mean?
A: You need no other templates. The one you made is just fine.
However I strongly recommend to start from a simple straight fingers join
(10mm bit).
Also. It is better to use solid wood.
10.83 is the depth for perfect join (0gap). 10.1 gives you a 0.18 gap.
3.) How do I avoid the crash of the bit and the stop?
1. Use a back board (soft solid wood only. Pine is the best). Pic3 there
is a back board but it was plywood.
2. Plywood is never flat. Use 2 clamps to avoid any possibility of shift
and rotation.
3. You probably seen wooden clamp on Incra's promo. The point is to use
wood everywhere. Your instrument (router bit) can cut the wood.
4. Here we returned back to the small first fingers. I use 2mm wooden shim
clamped to my fence. So I not care if it broken on some unlucky day.
Next weekend is yours! I will made some pictures for you.
I have to complete temporary doors for your new house (hope to done that
in a week) .
—
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Valentin
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|
|
How do I use https://github.com/Valdas2000/pyRouterJig ? If I put in 12.7 as the bit diameter for a straight bit I still get the same error. I'd rather not have to buy entirely new bits that fall on exact whole numbers - especially as so many do not. |
|
Hello Valentin,
I hope you are recovered from Covid and feel better!
All the best .
Rainer
Von: Valdas <notifications@github.com>
Gesendet: Montag, 4. Januar 2021 18:34
An: lowrie/pyRouterJig <pyRouterJig@noreply.github.com>
Cc: RaBuAc <office@buschac.de>; Comment <comment@noreply.github.com>
Betreff: Re: [lowrie/pyRouterJig] Metric dovetails (#2)
Hello.
I am a little bit off because of covid-19. Hope to be back in 2-3 weeks.
By the way Happy New Year!
…On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 1:47 PM RaBuAc ***@***.*** ***@***.***> > wrote:
Hallo Valentin,
I hope you are well and had a merry Christmas (don’t know if you
celebrate) and a happy new year eve!
To follow up with my experiments I have done two further rounds (after I
have received the new bit). With 10.9 mm (should be zero gap) and 9.1 mm
(right above the board thickness – trying out the INCRA recommendation I
sent to you some mails before). Both results were not satisfying,
1.)
Test with 10.9 mm (
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1AaZOYVFXHzfQO5ORFA61kRauy-sYYXCn?usp=sharing)
-> not really satisfying!
2.)
Test with INCAR recommendation to ignore depth setting and set depth of
bit just above the thickness of board
(
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/13EEqMvyMyXO381XxXSV1mScjV9nIMPCg?usp=sharing)
-> too big gaps
3.)
Then I started to dig deeper into the calulcation of gap and overlap. You
can find the resultws here (
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XVLzq7U4YC5SAopdWWJ7LnMtn4Dr9NWs/view?usp=sharing)
. I think there is a error in the display of the gap and overlap in the
program. But that doesn’t make a difference I think.
I come somehow to the conclusion that the fence doesn’t really support
through dovetails. Maybe you have some more guidance to me?
Best regards,
Rainer
Von: Valdas ***@***.*** ***@***.***> >
Gesendet: Sonntag, 13. Dezember 2020 20:55
An: lowrie/pyRouterJig ***@***.*** ***@***.***> >
Cc: RaBuAc ***@***.*** ***@***.***> >; Comment ***@***.*** ***@***.***> >
Betreff: Re: [lowrie/pyRouterJig] Metric dovetails (#2)
Hello.
You've got nice result with plywood. My first try on it was even more
worst. (Some fingers were completely broken). In general plywood is not the
good material for routing.
1) Now what is the right setup of the bit depth – according to the
corrected INCRA guide I did all correct ( I might better have used 10.1 mm)
A: There are many tiny tings impacts the join.
1. Hold your desk well (using clamps)
2. Avoid your router movements.
3. Make sure you clamp your Incra well (there are 2step hold).
4. The plywood is your headache. Try to start from natural wood (pine is
good, birch is better).
5. For the first time try join with minimum operations. Straight fingers
first time is better than dovetail.
2.) If I would have used 10.8 according to the “original guideline” (do
test cuts until you see a tight match -see Pic 3)
– do I have to create a template with 10.8 mm (this seems to be near to
the value “(10.83 mm)” given in the template -> is this accidental or what
does the 10.83 mm value mean?
A: You need no other templates. The one you made is just fine.
However I strongly recommend to start from a simple straight fingers join
(10mm bit).
Also. It is better to use solid wood.
10.83 is the depth for perfect join (0gap). 10.1 gives you a 0.18 gap.
3.) How do I avoid the crash of the bit and the stop?
1. Use a back board (soft solid wood only. Pine is the best). Pic3 there
is a back board but it was plywood.
2. Plywood is never flat. Use 2 clamps to avoid any possibility of shift
and rotation.
3. You probably seen wooden clamp on Incra's promo. The point is to use
wood everywhere. Your instrument (router bit) can cut the wood.
4. Here we returned back to the small first fingers. I use 2mm wooden shim
clamped to my fence. So I not care if it broken on some unlucky day.
Next weekend is yours! I will made some pictures for you.
I have to complete temporary doors for your new house (hope to done that
in a week) .
—
You are receiving this because you commented.
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Valentin
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|
Ok, worked it out I think. Preferences->Units ->Increments per mm set it to 100 |
|
Dear Valentin
I trust that you are well and must apologise for not responding but it has been a difficult year for everyone. I trust that you, your family and friends are well.
I have attempted to download your metric version of the pyRouterJig source code on my Windows 10 PC including installing QT5 using PyQt5.
However, I receive the following errors when I run it:
Please could you kindly advise me what additional steps I need to run the source code under python3.9.
Many thanks for all the good work you are doing on the Metric coding.
Best wishes,
David
…Sent from my iPad
On 20 Jul 2020, at 13:03, Valdas ***@***.***> wrote:
Dear David.
It will be nice if you drop a line if it works good for your projects and if any changes need.
I will be glad to help if any issues.
Regards
Valentin.
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Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or unsubscribe.
|
|
It would be better to put your image in Google photos. Google photos will allow you to use a generic link. No personally identifiable info required. Why would anyone want to give you their email address just to request access to it? |
|
Please find link to google photos as kindly suggested by ScaredyCat: |
|
Dear Valentin, I trust that you are well as you have not yet replied to my query. I am aware that some people have developed Long COVID which has been quite difficult to deal with. Dear ScaredyCat, pending a response from Valentin, I have downloaded the latest Windows binary program rather than trying to run the scripts. However, setting the increments to 100 just causes the software to loop until I force it to close. We’re you able to get it to work and are there any pointers as to what I may be doing wrong. For example does the download have to be in a particular set of folders. Many thanks everyone for your assistance, Best wishes, David |
|
Hello.
The lungs are still not that good. Doctors advised me to forget about
woodworking for almost a year because of dust.
…On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 11:43 AM RaBuAc ***@***.***> wrote:
Hello Valentin,
I hope you are recovered from Covid and feel better!
All the best .
Rainer
Von: Valdas ***@***.***>
Gesendet: Montag, 4. Januar 2021 18:34
An: lowrie/pyRouterJig ***@***.***>
Cc: RaBuAc ***@***.***>; Comment ***@***.***>
Betreff: Re: [lowrie/pyRouterJig] Metric dovetails (#2)
Hello.
I am a little bit off because of covid-19. Hope to be back in 2-3 weeks.
By the way Happy New Year!
On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 1:47 PM RaBuAc ***@***.*** <mailto:
***@***.***> > wrote:
> Hallo Valentin,
>
> I hope you are well and had a merry Christmas (don’t know if you
> celebrate) and a happy new year eve!
>
>
>
> To follow up with my experiments I have done two further rounds (after I
> have received the new bit). With 10.9 mm (should be zero gap) and 9.1 mm
> (right above the board thickness – trying out the INCRA recommendation I
> sent to you some mails before). Both results were not satisfying,
>
>
>
>
>
> 1.)
>
> Test with 10.9 mm (
>
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1AaZOYVFXHzfQO5ORFA61kRauy-sYYXCn?usp=sharing
)
> -> not really satisfying!
>
>
>
> 2.)
>
> Test with INCAR recommendation to ignore depth setting and set depth of
> bit just above the thickness of board
>
> (
>
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/13EEqMvyMyXO381XxXSV1mScjV9nIMPCg?usp=sharing
)
> -> too big gaps
>
>
>
> 3.)
>
> Then I started to dig deeper into the calulcation of gap and overlap. You
> can find the resultws here (
>
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XVLzq7U4YC5SAopdWWJ7LnMtn4Dr9NWs/view?usp=sharing
)
> . I think there is a error in the display of the gap and overlap in the
> program. But that doesn’t make a difference I think.
>
>
>
>
>
> I come somehow to the conclusion that the fence doesn’t really support
> through dovetails. Maybe you have some more guidance to me?
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Rainer
>
>
>
> Von: Valdas ***@***.*** ***@***.***>
>
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 13. Dezember 2020 20:55
> An: lowrie/pyRouterJig ***@***.*** <mailto:
***@***.***> >
> Cc: RaBuAc ***@***.*** ***@***.***> >; Comment <
***@***.*** ***@***.***> >
> Betreff: Re: [lowrie/pyRouterJig] Metric dovetails (#2)
>
>
>
> Hello.
> You've got nice result with plywood. My first try on it was even more
> worst. (Some fingers were completely broken). In general plywood is not
the
> good material for routing.
>
> 1) Now what is the right setup of the bit depth – according to the
> corrected INCRA guide I did all correct ( I might better have used 10.1
mm)
> A: There are many tiny tings impacts the join.
>
> 1. Hold your desk well (using clamps)
> 2. Avoid your router movements.
> 3. Make sure you clamp your Incra well (there are 2step hold).
> 4. The plywood is your headache. Try to start from natural wood (pine is
> good, birch is better).
> 5. For the first time try join with minimum operations. Straight fingers
> first time is better than dovetail.
>
> 2.) If I would have used 10.8 according to the “original guideline” (do
> test cuts until you see a tight match -see Pic 3)
> – do I have to create a template with 10.8 mm (this seems to be near to
> the value “(10.83 mm)” given in the template -> is this accidental or
what
> does the 10.83 mm value mean?
> A: You need no other templates. The one you made is just fine.
> However I strongly recommend to start from a simple straight fingers join
> (10mm bit).
> Also. It is better to use solid wood.
>
> 10.83 is the depth for perfect join (0gap). 10.1 gives you a 0.18 gap.
>
> 3.) How do I avoid the crash of the bit and the stop?
>
> 1. Use a back board (soft solid wood only. Pine is the best). Pic3 there
> is a back board but it was plywood.
> 2. Plywood is never flat. Use 2 clamps to avoid any possibility of shift
> and rotation.
> 3. You probably seen wooden clamp on Incra's promo. The point is to use
> wood everywhere. Your instrument (router bit) can cut the wood.
> 4. Here we returned back to the small first fingers. I use 2mm wooden
shim
> clamped to my fence. So I not care if it broken on some unlucky day.
>
> Next weekend is yours! I will made some pictures for you.
> I have to complete temporary doors for your new house (hope to done that
> in a week) .
>
> —
> You are receiving this because you commented.
> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <
> #2 (comment)> ,
> or unsubscribe <
>
https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ARS4R5LOCCA2BOBU2VFV4OLSUUL2RANCNFSM4CEO4X5Q
>
> . <
>
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>
>
>
> —
> You are receiving this because you were mentioned.
> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub
> <#2 (comment)>,
> or unsubscribe
> <
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>
> .
>
--
Regards
Valentin
—
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.
--
Regards
Valentin
|
|
Dear Valentin, |
|
Valentin,
I’m really sorry to hear that.
Damage of lungs because of COVID and dust appears to be quite dramatic; good is that your doctors have a positive prognostic.
I hope you recover sooner and can return to the woodworking which seems to be your destiny.
Please take care and I wish you all the best.
Rainer
Von: Valdas ***@***.***>
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 29. Juli 2021 13:49
An: lowrie/pyRouterJig ***@***.***>
Cc: RaBuAc ***@***.***>; Comment ***@***.***>
Betreff: Re: [lowrie/pyRouterJig] Metric dovetails (#2)
Hello.
The lungs are still not that good. Doctors advised me to forget about
woodworking for almost a year because of dust.
…On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 11:43 AM RaBuAc ***@***.*** <mailto:***@***.***> > wrote:
Hello Valentin,
I hope you are recovered from Covid and feel better!
All the best .
Rainer
Von: Valdas ***@***.*** <mailto:***@***.***> >
Gesendet: Montag, 4. Januar 2021 18:34
An: lowrie/pyRouterJig ***@***.*** <mailto:***@***.***> >
Cc: RaBuAc ***@***.*** <mailto:***@***.***> >; Comment ***@***.*** <mailto:***@***.***> >
Betreff: Re: [lowrie/pyRouterJig] Metric dovetails (#2)
Hello.
I am a little bit off because of covid-19. Hope to be back in 2-3 weeks.
By the way Happy New Year!
On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 1:47 PM RaBuAc ***@***.*** <mailto:***@***.***> <mailto: <mailto:%0b>
***@***.*** <mailto:***@***.***> > > wrote:
> Hallo Valentin,
>
> I hope you are well and had a merry Christmas (don’t know if you
> celebrate) and a happy new year eve!
>
>
>
> To follow up with my experiments I have done two further rounds (after I
> have received the new bit). With 10.9 mm (should be zero gap) and 9.1 mm
> (right above the board thickness – trying out the INCRA recommendation I
> sent to you some mails before). Both results were not satisfying,
>
>
>
>
>
> 1.)
>
> Test with 10.9 mm (
>
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1AaZOYVFXHzfQO5ORFA61kRauy-sYYXCn?usp=sharing
)
> -> not really satisfying!
>
>
>
> 2.)
>
> Test with INCAR recommendation to ignore depth setting and set depth of
> bit just above the thickness of board
>
> (
>
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/13EEqMvyMyXO381XxXSV1mScjV9nIMPCg?usp=sharing
)
> -> too big gaps
>
>
>
> 3.)
>
> Then I started to dig deeper into the calulcation of gap and overlap. You
> can find the resultws here (
>
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XVLzq7U4YC5SAopdWWJ7LnMtn4Dr9NWs/view?usp=sharing
)
> . I think there is a error in the display of the gap and overlap in the
> program. But that doesn’t make a difference I think.
>
>
>
>
>
> I come somehow to the conclusion that the fence doesn’t really support
> through dovetails. Maybe you have some more guidance to me?
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Rainer
>
>
>
> Von: Valdas ***@***.*** <mailto:***@***.***> ***@***.*** <mailto:***@***.***> >
>
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 13. Dezember 2020 20:55
> An: lowrie/pyRouterJig ***@***.*** <mailto:***@***.***> <mailto: <mailto:%0b>
***@***.*** <mailto:***@***.***> > >
> Cc: RaBuAc ***@***.*** <mailto:***@***.***> ***@***.*** <mailto:***@***.***> > >; Comment <
***@***.*** <mailto:***@***.***> ***@***.*** <mailto:***@***.***> > >
> Betreff: Re: [lowrie/pyRouterJig] Metric dovetails (#2)
>
>
>
> Hello.
> You've got nice result with plywood. My first try on it was even more
> worst. (Some fingers were completely broken). In general plywood is not
the
> good material for routing.
>
> 1) Now what is the right setup of the bit depth – according to the
> corrected INCRA guide I did all correct ( I might better have used 10.1
mm)
> A: There are many tiny tings impacts the join.
>
> 1. Hold your desk well (using clamps)
> 2. Avoid your router movements.
> 3. Make sure you clamp your Incra well (there are 2step hold).
> 4. The plywood is your headache. Try to start from natural wood (pine is
> good, birch is better).
> 5. For the first time try join with minimum operations. Straight fingers
> first time is better than dovetail.
>
> 2.) If I would have used 10.8 according to the “original guideline” (do
> test cuts until you see a tight match -see Pic 3)
> – do I have to create a template with 10.8 mm (this seems to be near to
> the value “(10.83 mm)” given in the template -> is this accidental or
what
> does the 10.83 mm value mean?
> A: You need no other templates. The one you made is just fine.
> However I strongly recommend to start from a simple straight fingers join
> (10mm bit).
> Also. It is better to use solid wood.
>
> 10.83 is the depth for perfect join (0gap). 10.1 gives you a 0.18 gap.
>
> 3.) How do I avoid the crash of the bit and the stop?
>
> 1. Use a back board (soft solid wood only. Pine is the best). Pic3 there
> is a back board but it was plywood.
> 2. Plywood is never flat. Use 2 clamps to avoid any possibility of shift
> and rotation.
> 3. You probably seen wooden clamp on Incra's promo. The point is to use
> wood everywhere. Your instrument (router bit) can cut the wood.
> 4. Here we returned back to the small first fingers. I use 2mm wooden
shim
> clamped to my fence. So I not care if it broken on some unlucky day.
>
> Next weekend is yours! I will made some pictures for you.
> I have to complete temporary doors for your new house (hope to done that
> in a week) .
>
> —
> You are receiving this because you commented.
> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <
> #2 (comment)> ,
> or unsubscribe <
>
https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ARS4R5LOCCA2BOBU2VFV4OLSUUL2RANCNFSM4CEO4X5Q
>
> . <
>
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>
>
>
> —
> You are receiving this because you were mentioned.
> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub
> <#2 (comment)>,
> or unsubscribe
> <
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>
> .
>
--
Regards
Valentin
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Valentin
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|
Hi. Thanks for all the work @lowrie and @Valdas2000 especially! I just wanted to check if there is a Mac download available for the branch that includes @Valdas2000 's changes. |
Hi,
The Incra metric dovetail templates use imperial dovetail bits. It doesn't look like pyRouterJig allows entering a 12.7mm bit width. Is there any way around this?
Cheers,
Simon.
The text was updated successfully, but these errors were encountered: