Rhythmic/Pattern Stuttering on Vision Pro (iPad app) #607
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Can confirm I have this as well. |
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Yep, I am also experiencing this exact same problem using iPad app on Vision Pro. Despite the stream running perfectly otherwise (no dropped frames, minimal latency) I get a consistent "rhythmic" stutter (stuck video frame and audio dropout) every 80 milliseconds or so, like clockwork. It's not related to any specific game, it reproduces simply streaming the desktop (and also happens in any games I've tried as well.) |
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try with bluetooth and airplay off too, these are known for causing hiccups in networking on ios devices. also try with the setting I contributed to turned on, the prefer smooth experience instead of low latency. It will delay one frame which adds a small latency but can work wonders on reducing stutters |
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Thank you for your response. Unfortunately none of those adjustments fix this issue. |
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Having the same problem. Is this exclusive to the Vision Pro, though? Moonlight on my iPad seems to be having the same problem. |
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Chiming in. Same problem, on both iPad and Vision Pro. None of the normal troubleshooting solutions have helped. Latency averaging around 7ms, 0% dropped frames. Metrics suggest everything should be great, but instead there is this consistent choppiness. |
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Is it happening every second? On macOS it's caused by AWDL taking the wifi card every second and you can make it better by putting your wifi on the same channel as AWDL in your region (149 in the us iirc). On macOS you can disable it entirely but it doesn't seem possible to do so on visionOS. I had this problem on my AVP but switching my wifi channels fixed it. |
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@alexhaugland Yep, every second for me. Unfortunately, I have one of those wonderful routers with zero configuration options or I'd give changing the channel a shot. Odd, though it's only occurring on the AVP and an iPad Mini 6. Working as expected on an iPhone and wirelessly on a MacBook. |
Wow, I think this solved it for me. I was having horrible packet loss on Moonlight, and on Game streaming like GeForce Now and Xbox Cloud Gaming. They were impossible to use. But I couldn't replicate this issue on a wired Apple TV nor my laptop on wifi. For me though, it was showing great FPS and ping time. It was the "Percent of dropped frames" that was ranging from 8% to 25%. I swapped the AP I was attached to, to channel 149 and it all magically worked. Unfortunately, I have quite a few access points in my house, so now I don't know what to do. This is kind of a really crappy issue. |
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Same exact issue here. Running on an ultra fast WiFi 7 network, and encountering the same rhythmic stuttering every second. I've spent the past week configuring network settings, replacing my network adapter, replacing my router, cables, you name it. Still encountering the same issue. Every now and then there's a moment when everything just works, but then after a few minutes it's right back. My gpu is a 4090 so it should handle it. Seems to be any game, even Rayman which uses hardly any resources triggers it. I've tried all the configuration options in Sunshine, and still no luck. When the stutter occurs, lowering the bitrate to even 5 still causes it. Also, the VisionOS TestFlight version seems to have disabled H264. I can select it in the options, but it's defaulting to HEVC when loaded. |
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@Razorub did you try changing your router to use channel 149 for 5ghz (if you're in the United States). I did this and it instantly resolved it. |
How extended was your testing after doing that? I'd find it hard to believe a specific broadcast channel can fix the issue entirely, though I'm no expert. |
My Eero 7 Max automatically configures channels. There is no manual control. |
Over many hours of not using it and trying again.
AWDL switches to channel 149 (on 5ghz in the US) in order to query and operate and switches back. This is the cause of the disruption. If your network interface is already on 149, it avoids the chaos. |
Alright I'll give it a try and report back. Thanks for the info 👍 |
Did this fix your situation as well? |
@TheSpacemanSpliff @maddox I tried it for about an hour last night with zero stuttering. Slightly more latency & variance than usual, 4ms instead of 1ms. Will do more testing today but it seemingly worked for now. |
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I guess I'm stuck in this situation then, as I have an Eero 7 Max which after discussion with their tech support doesn't allow for manual selection of a channel. Bummer because I love everything about moonlight. |
I can't believe it's that simple, but changing the wifi channel to 149 fixed the issue instantly |
I have the Eero 6 Pro (not 6e) and it does seem to be more specific issue to some apps compared to others. Some of my test results:
Even more interestingly is using parsec as a comparison, the M1 MBP on wireless with awdl on, airdrop on, bluetooth on, has no issues with 4k 60fps. |
Seems Channel 149 is the solution. Unfortunately my $600 Wifi 7 router doesn't allow me to do something as simple as manually change the channel. Talk about frustrating. Side note: You don't happen to be the same PureDark who created the DLSS3 mod for Starfield? |
Yeah, I also use parsec on my other system and it runs with no hiccups. I really want to be able to use Moonlight with the Vision Pro. |
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It seems strange the wireless hiccups are occurring just on Moonlight compared to Parsec. @TheSpacemanSpliff I am highly considering switching to a new wireless mesh router system to get away from Eero holding back some of this basic functionality. |
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Yeah, for me at least, this issue seems to exclusively occur with Moonlight. Steam Link is working just fine. I'll also note, that at least on my iPad Mini, this is a new occurrence and was working fine up until somewhat recently. So, I'd question whether something changed within the iPadOS build or within iPadOS itself that's causing some of us to have issues. |
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I wonder what is triggering it with Moonlight vs Steamlink? I tried Steamlink and much prefer Moonlight and the higher quality stream. |
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So testing SteamLink and also Geforce Now, do not see the kind of stuttering and frame drop issues as I do with moonlight on iPad, iOS, Vision Pro, or Mac. |
Hopefully this is something the moonlight devs can figure out then, because moonlight is so much nicer to use than steamlink or GeForce. |
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The reason geforce now and steam link are mostly flawless is they use a fat buffer of packets, which of course mean highly perceived latency. particularly I wasn't able to moonlight in my iOS devices as well as I did on x86 linux/windows or even android devices, so I just gave up on ios at some point for this purpose. |
Do you think it would be possible for Moonlight to offer the option of using a fat buffer, even if it meant facing a higher latency? |
sure. I contributed to a feature where I introduced one frame as a buffer and this fixed most of my issues on an apple tv wired. you just need to go to settings and choose smoother experience rather than low larency. |
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FWIW, I had a terrible time with GeForce Now and Xbox Cloud Gaming as well. They are both better now. |
Is that after switching to channel 149? |
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Switching to channel 149 fixed my issues as well. Very interesting. |
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I'm unable to manually select a channel with my Eero system, but disabling location services in my Vision Pro seems to have fixed my stutter. |
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I can't change the channel settings on my Orbi router and disabling location services didn't fix this problem. Seems to occur on the iPad and on the Vision Pro. |
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@laestrella26 do you happen to have a MacBook or Mac device close by? Try powering them down if you do. additionally, try selecting Smooth Video in the settings in moonlight on the iPad and Vision Pro settings. |
Thanks. I tried that but it didn't really help. I thought I noticed some improvement but that could have been because I rebooted the Vision Pro after turning of location services. Either way, I just bought a new router. This was the last straw with my Orbi. I've been living with the lack of control over even selecting which satellite my devices connect to for way too long and the inability to even separate the SSIDs. I just got an ASUS ROG router and it's fantastic. I put the Orbi in AP mode and it's all working great. I was able to set the channel to 149 and now everything is working as expected. Hopefully, there is a less drastic solution for others but I've been wanting a new router and this was the right time. |
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@laestrella26 which router did you get specifically? I’m probably going to do the same. |
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I think any of the ASUS 6/6E routers should work well. I bought this slightly cheaper one and it works great. |
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Update from my setup (which is a home network of several overlapping Orbi routers/access points): When I first posted about my issue, I thought I had disabled all the extra services on the Vision Pro (i.e. location services, handoff, etc) - but it turns out I hadn't turned ALL of them off. So I did that, and then the problem disappeared (now able to stream at 4k/120hz SMOOTH). However, the weird part is: I have since gone in and re-enabled all of these services on the Vision Pro, to try and diagnose (and then report back here) which specific service was causing the issue. Unfortunately though, I can no longer reproduce this issue, even with ALL of the potentially-problematic services/settings re-enabled. I don't know if something else changed since my first test (Moonlight update? Orbi update?) But for the last few days, even with all services re-enabled, I am getting rock solid streaming performance (and without having adjusted the wifi channel either!) As an engineer myself, I hate that the answer from my end is "turning it off and back on again is what fixed it" but unfortunately that's all I've got at the moment 🤷♂️ |
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@paulbettner mine started working flawlessly, but then the stutters came back. What all options did you disable and re-enable on the vision pro? |
For me, the problem came back. But then I disabled location services and it immediately went away (like - it stopped happening WHILE moonlight was running, simply by disabling location services.) But then it came back again, and this time disabling location services had no effect (although I haven't tried restarting the device yet.) Sorry, I wish I had a more reliable repro for y'all. |
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I ended up buying an asus router, setting it up as an AP for the eero network. Set the asus router 5Ghz to 149 channel and connect to that. All is good now |
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I had this problem with my Eero network and the vision pro. Like @NapalmDest54 , I ended up buying an ASUS router and set it up as the Access Point. I didn't have to adjust the channel settings, but the stutter problem immediately went away. Other applications with game streaming capabilities (nexus+ with game pass cloud) are also instantly better. Something with the eero network just doesn't play nice here. |
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Same, I ended up buying a ASUS Rog Router, setting up as an AP with my Eero and the stutter instantly went away. |
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I'm just joining the conversation because I do have the exact same rhythmic stutter (at least it sounds like it). |
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I am pretty confident that the issue is related to Apple devices that use AirPlay. Disabling location services / discovery of Airplay receivers fixes it. This issue is also present on MacOS. |
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An alternative i’ve found that seems to have worked for me if you can’t set your router to ch 149 is to connect to a Wifi 6/7 MLO network |
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As others mentioned the issue seems to be related to AWDL (Apple Wireless Direct Link). Apple uses this for their AirDrop, AirPlay and Universal Clipboard. These guys did a good write up on it here. From their paper where they reverse engineer AWDL:
Note: Channel 149 is not available in all countries, you can check this wiki article to see if the channel is available in your country. If you run a network test using the Steam link app you can see this rhythmic connection issue quite clearly. The issue seems to happen during the Master Election step for AWDL. It seems that Apple periodically channel hops to one of the social channels to discover other nodes in range, or make itself known to other nodes. I am pretty confident this is why disabling Airplay, location services, and such also fixes the issue. Swapping your WI-FI to use one of the fixed social channels (6 for 2.4G, 44 or 149 for 5G), results in your device no longer channel hopping creating an overall smoother experience. TLDR: Set your Wi-Fi channel to 6, 44 or 149 to fix the stuttering issue. |
Excellent response. Thanks so much for the article. Switching to channel 149 allows me to still use handover services without the stuttering. I think I get very occasional stutters with location services on while using channel 149, but it is much, much more usable. My UniFi U7 pro frequency bandwidth is limited to 80 hz at channel 149. Has anyone played around with how this impacts speed and reliability? This approach also means I never use the 6 Ghz channel now. |
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I am in Europe, and switching my 5 GHz channel to 44 indeed fixed the issue. Thank you very much to everyone who suggested this. |
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Thanks everyone! Instantly work for me to switching to channel 44 in UK! |
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My router setup did not allow me to change the channel used, but I found that turning on Airplane Mode, followed by re-enabling Wi-Fi has removed this stutter for me. |
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Any idea what channel I need on the 6Ghz band? I'm on iOS 18 Public Beta and the issue came back even though my channels are set as expected for 2.4 ang 5Ghz (and went away) Edit: Looks like channel 37 with PSC enabled seems to work. 6GHZ 149 wasn't doing it with the stuttering on iOS and macOS (yes, I ensured my Mac is connected to 6Ghz 160Mhz) |
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if you have multiple access points, can you set all of them to use the same channels? |
and others
While using the Apple Vision Pro I get this sort of consistent rhythmic skipping. It's seemingly a perfect pattern that cuts both the audio and video out at the same time. It was happening more often than it wasn't, but there were periods of time where the issue was non-existent. It would periodically start and stop having the issue.
I tried all the troubleshooting steps and changing my settings, including the notorious location settings for Mac/iOS. I haven't tried another game, since I didn't have much time to test other than on Palworld, but I'd be willing to bet it has the same result.
Here is a screen recording of the issue
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