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détaché on bowed string instruments #22140
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I completely agree with you. And if there is no clarifying instruction or articulation, then it should be détaché by default. Otherwise, it turns out to be just terrible (especially in the first example that I gave in the issue). I think this should be dealt with first. For me, the articulations that are currently not working in one of my issues under the muse sounds label are not so important as the implementation of détaché. If this is fixed (preferably soon), then Muse Sounds will become a flawless sound plugin! |
+1 The legato makes many baroque pieces almost unbearable to listen to. An additional suggestion although I don't know how hard it is to implement: Automatically change to legato if indicated by a slur |
There is an argument to be made that most musicians will play legato by default most of the time unless otherwise specified so it would make sense to use legato by default.
There is also an argument to be made so that détaché be the default since we have 3 legato methods (slurs, tenuto, and the legato text element) as opposed to détaché that we have only the text element. |
I'm certainly in that camp of legato by default as a musician, although as a pianist, legato means something different for me than for other people playing other instruments as does staccato. Legato meaning a slight millisecond overlap between the keys and staccato meaning short and detached and with rest length after the staccato determining how long the note is and not the note itself(i.e. if I press the one of the C keys on the piano for the briefest moment and then quickly press it again, it's quarter or shorter unless the tempo is really fast, and as the note values get longer and as the tempo gets slower, that gap of silence gets wider while the actual note, the attack, stays the same, whereas other instruments follow a seemingly arbitrary rule of staccato = half the notated note value)
This would make sense for strings, but it would make having the piano play back legato throughout unless otherwise specified a bit cumbersome. I would have to input a lot more slurs than I would actually want to see. At least, I think it would. I don't have any opinion on which is better and I don't know if it could be set so that strings play back detache by default unless specified whereas piano would play back legato by default unless specified, I don't know. |
@Thiago-Morais, @DaddyLudwig, have you even listened to the examples of legato playback in Musescore that I have given in this issue? Didn't you realize that it sounds terrible?
Anything is possible nowadays. The main thing is to justify, to make arguments in favor of one or the other, so that it can be implemented.
It's not a big deal. In many scores that I have worked with, the composer required that each group of notes to be played legato should be marked with either a slur or a verbal instruction. And we tagged each group, and yes, there were a lot of them, but what to do, it was necessary in order to clarify. And for bowed strings, détaché is used as the default style, unless otherwise specified. I don't even need to justify it here, if you don't believe me, then Google it, read it on Wikipedia. |
Nowadays, the piano in Muse Sounds sounds more like a tenuto than a legato. And how would you like to keep the tenuto or add a little staccato with a legato effect? |
@Valdessir, I respect your opinion, but I think that such a belief depends on the tempo of the composition. |
Your idea
I propose to implement the sound of this playing technique by default, since the legato currently existing in Muse Sounds is the only style that causes a lot of trouble, which I will describe below.
Problem to be solved
At the moment, in Muse Sounds, string bows sound like legato and that's all. Legato is beautiful, but not always.
For the most part, only those notes that are marked at the beginning with either a verbal instruction or slurs over a group of notes that need to be performed as legato are performed in the legato style. If all this is not specified, then it is performed in the style of détaché.
I'll give you a couple of examples as proof.
I believe that if the sound in the détaché style is implemented, then this will eventually allow you to get a wonderful sound, the one that is needed for many situations. And if all the notes sound legato, then it will sound ugly.
Taking issue #13185 into account, I can say the following. There is a détaché instruction in the "text" palette (as well as legato). But it doesn't do any good, because there is no corresponding sound in the end. I propose to reduce to a détaché everything that is not legato. If the user wants it to sound legato, then let him add either a verbal instruction or slurs over a group of notes that he wants to sound legato-style. Everything else should sound in the style of détaché. And please don't tell me that such a technique can only be obtained if I add the articulations "bow up", "bow down", "bow up", "bow down" (etc.) to each note and then make it all invisible (optional). Imagine how long it will take, and in addition it will give an excessive articulatory "forest". And constantly giving instructions to legato and détaché is also a chore.
I attached a file with two scores at the bottom. You can verify the problematic sound by opening and listening to them using Muse Sounds.
legato (non detache).zip
Prior art
No response
Additional context
I would like to note that the détaché technique is clearly audible if you play notes with tremolo added through the stems. You can hear how the bow changes its movement for each subsequent note (up-down-up-down, etc.).
09-02-00.mp4
Why does it sound like legato again without tremolo? The sound is like slob. This is strange.
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