BEMF is NOT working #46
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I've installed an old ESP-WROOM-32 as well - the same behavior as on ESP32-WROOM-32D. After power on outside the motor_shield board the following behaviour:
The diff between running with the board and outside the board:
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You should have some What are the values you setup for bemf_triggers ?
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I've reviewed #9 The same figures. Putting a multimeter between GPIO36 and GND gives everytime 0mV.
Putting a multimeter between below and GND gives around 20mV when the motor is running unhindered and around 53mV at end stops
To simplify I've modified the setup as following: |
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If you want help, do not use custom firmware as some changes may trouble : 0.07500 V means 0V You must give more information !
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Your screenshots are the same as #41 Not an issue |
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Ohh - very precise instruction - Thanks: 1a) without motor activity: 3.29 V 2a) without motor activity: 0.000 V 3a) without motor activity: 0.000 V 4a) without motor activity: 0.000 V 5) I have the prevois board - how to measure? 6a) without motor activity: 0.000 V Same board as in #41 |
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For above testings I've modified config to your actual esphome settings: |
5a) without motor activity: 0.000 V |
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GPIO36 is not ADC2 if you use default board config :
Following the information you provided, I mean you LM324 opamp is not working. Have you jumper cable to bypass it ? |
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GPIO36 is not ADC2 if you use default board config: I use your defaults: Cable bypass: I've tried with a simple unsoldered cable (
without motor activity: 0.000 V |
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You had good values in 2b) with motor activity (endpoint): 0.055 V. I do not understand why the opamps kills the voltage :( 1st) With GPIO36, I mean perhaps you have a different esp32 devkit board with some different pinout. Some references for pinout : 2nd) If you can solder, perhaps the best way to go is cutting the BEMF1-2 cutout and manual wiring :
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If you can support with a working hardware solution - highly appreciated. I want's to have a prove of concept that an "outside temperature and weather-compensated return flow temperature heating control" can be realized very smoothly with your board, esphome and Home Assistant. #4 I've already modified your code and the mayority is working well ... |
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I really mean your LM324 opamp module is dead ! The opamp is not really needed, but increase voltage precision, that's why I propose you to bypass it If you want to debug further, we need more steps. I have really tested all released version of the board and all are working. (The first one had a shortcut between CH7 & 8, that wasn't detected cause the valves cannot run at same time) Do you have a laboratory power supply ? If not, a 1.5V battery will do half the job, or resistances
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Can you please provide me a working board plus ESP32 board for further testing - I beleave hardcore debugging is out of my possibilities ... - Maybe it's to late this evening ... Sorry |
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Ok - Let's try to move forward. Actually I've a broken floor heating system - the old 6x valves (on/off) are broken and needs to be replaced. For further tests I'm using a battery: 1.208 V
LM324 test (without ESP32): Same figures as above if I'm powering via board power supply - again without ESP.
If I understand you correctly above measurement are proven evidences that my board is broken - Right? Please confirm. |
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The opamp must have 3.3V power to work. Regards |
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ADC inputs with direct power supply
=> With offset -4% difference
Shortcut between GPIO36, GPIO39, GPIO34 and GPIO35:
=> With offset 1.310/1.364 = -4% difference |
Yes - this was my second round of testing with 3.3 V from the board without ESP |
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ADC works but LM324 is dead. The only solution is to cut the BEMF linked to opamp
It can be reversed if you can solder .... |
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Must I really cut the connections from BEMF to GPIOs or are the shortcuts between the GPIOs the different channels sufficient enough? I have Pin headers and I can solder them. |
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I've found a potentiometer to reduce the input power :-)
=> With offset 0.007/0.073 V = -4.1% difference Second try after changing the ADC offset from 0.075 to 0.000 V:
=> Without offset 0.076)/0.068 V => +11.8 % difference
With a maximum sensitivity of 68 mV, my ESP cannot detect motor activity and especially the endpoint (measured as ~55 mV). Question: |
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They are too many problems ! There are 2 solutions : change either shield or ESP32. |
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OK - I will change both. What kind of ESP do you recommend and where to buy? |
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Some people sells boards in https://github.com/nliaudat/esp32_8ch_motor_shield/discussions |
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Are there better alternatives than ESP32-WROOM-32D which can be used by the board? |
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new ESP32 C6 or S6 have better ADC. I haven't tested actually. |
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They are really fitting into the board sockets - I beleave they have 2 or four pins less? |
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I try to order boards at jlcpcb.com, but I get the following error message:
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I've ordered at jlcpcb.com In the meantime I will try the approach to dual ads1115 as adc for all channels as proposed by #19 (comment) |
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Normally, that's all holes or pin headers |
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My discusion : #41 and this issue describe the same problem. I gave my PCB with the actuators and esp32 to an electrical engineering service. After some time I hear from the electrical engineer that during start-up the actuators have a very high current, several A's. The electrical engineer added a 200 µF capacitor but it didn't help. Today I got the information (fast, no specifics) that the problem is a badly sized LM324, because the actuators have a much higher short-circuit current than the LM324 can handle. The engineer is to find a better model. Checking the specification, I see that all LMs.... have an Isc of 40mA to 60mA, and the actuator in the first picture says max 120mA. In the LM specification it says: "Short circuits from outputs to VCC can cause excessive heating and eventual destruction." . So you may be right in saying that the LM324 is faulty, as it could have been damaged by the first actuator start. I wonder if the use of LM is even possible for these actuators. |
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After hardcore tests porposed during last weekend my board related to BEMF
ist completly dead - direct shortcut on all 8 BEMF channels ...
This is may be inline with above findings ....
Cheers
Joerg
…On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 at 15:11, WMP ***@***.***> wrote:
My discusion : #41
<#41> and
this issue describe the same problem. I gave my PCB with the actuators and
esp32 to an electrical engineering service. After some time I hear from the
electrical engineer that during start-up the actuators have a very high
current, several A's. The electrical engineer added a 200 µF capacitor but
it didn't help. Today I got the information (fast, no specifics) that the
problem is a badly sized LM324, because the actuators have a much higher
short-circuit current than the LM324 can handle. The engineer is to find a
better model.
Checking the specification, I see that all LMs.... have an Isc of 40mA to
60mA, and the actuator in the first picture says max 120mA. In the LM
specification it says: "Short circuits from outputs to VCC can cause
excessive heating and eventual destruction." . So you may be right in
saying that the LM324 is faulty, as it could have been damaged by the first
actuator start.
I wonder if the use of LM is even possible for these actuators.
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Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub
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The LM324 module capture the value of BEMF (Back electrical motor force). The Isc of 40mA to 60mA is the "max output current" the LM324 can boosts per channel, not related about input. @Karl-opec : What do you think of @WMP comments about the LM324 ? Regards |
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I have ordered and tested a third ESP32D:
ESPHome documentation is clearly stating, that on ESP32 the lowest adc voltage is ~0.075V:
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Testing the approach with a single ads1115:
The usage of a single ads1115 is providing:
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Setup:
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ads1115 is like LM324 but much more expensive |
The LM324 does not drive the valves. it only amplifies the voltages over current resistors to get them in workable ranges for measurement by the esp32. the blocking current of the valves are approx. 35mA. Over the resistor this gives 35mV. The LM324 amplifies these voltages by 6 to approx. 180mV. This is the voltage at which the ESP32 switches of the valve. |
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Issue #55 fits to this problem also. |
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Yes, it would be great if a fixed version with rs11 was published. |
https://github.com/nliaudat/esp32_8ch_motor_shield/releases/tag/v57 This is the last update (fix) to RJ11 version. |
Valves are working but by reaching the endstop point there is more then 10 secs tock tock tock and the valve is pressed from the ventil.
board version v57 rev 1.48
ESPRESSiF
ESP32-WROOM-32D
Homematic valve actuators [HmIP-VDMOT]
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