Ja design, and ja-ya ligature

[GoogleCodeExporter]

Test Link: 
http://gujarati.oneindia.in/temp/google-font/notos-sans-gujarati/

We found below issue:
1 - font shape is not proper in some letters. (I attached a pic with 
problems in font and Numbers)
2 - When we zoom out the fonts, feel uneasy to read.
3 - Spacing between letters are not as good as current font.

Please refer the attachment.

-- 
regards,
Mukesh Kumar
Sr. Web Developer
Greynium Information Technologies Pvt. Ltd

Original issue reported on code.google.com by mukes...@oneindia.co.in on 13 Oct 2014 at 9:24

Attachments:

• Gujarati-font-check.JPG

[GoogleCodeExporter]

Thanks a lot for the report.

It seems that JA (જ) is wider in Noto compared to Windows fonts, and NA (ન) 
doesn't have the loop that Windows fonts have. On YA (ય), it seems that some 
fonts (like Microsoft's Shruti) have a rounded shape on its left, while Noto 
has a sharp shape.

Assigning to Jelle to tell us if these are as designed.

(Xiangye, would also ask our reviewers about the three issues?)

Original comment by roozbeh@google.com on 3 Apr 2015 at 2:40

[GoogleCodeExporter]

Feedback from our reviewers:

We've taken a look at the current release versions (v1.02, hinted). 

JA:
A bit ungainly: overly wide and the upper loop very large, causing the letter 
to appear unbalanced. The large loop may be intentional, though, in order to 
maximise legibility at small sizes. The loop is usually quite large and but 
here would benefit from being reduced slightly.


NA:
The closed knot is certainly legitimate in Gujurati, and is the typical form in 
higher contrast text types. [The open ring form is common in lower contrast 
'sans' types, but not necessarily definitive of the style.]

However, the knot itself is usually bigger than in Devanagari. I agree that it 
is a bit modest here. Also, in Gujarati it is usually curved slightly not as 
straight as in Devanagari but I guess for UI it needs to be straight/flat.  I 
do agree that Na does look narrow when set before the Va and Sa in the words 
shown in the image. I would make it wider and the knot slightly bigger.


YA:
Ya a bit wide, but overall Noto Sans Gujarati is a broad face (cf. BHA ભ, 
which is very wide; again, this may be intentional vis à vis legibility at 
small sizes).The real problem is, at small sizes in Noto Sans, Ya is not as 
easily distinguishable from Pa as one would expect. 

Spacing
The OneIndia feedback also compares spacing unfavourably with 'current font'. 
Without seeing the comparison, it is difficult to qualify this statement. Noto 
Sans Gujurati spacing is on the tight side, relative to the width of many 
counters, but not debilitatingly so.


JYa
The font renders the conjunct JYa જ્ય using the half J-. This is 
acceptable, but since the font contains numerous ligatures for -Ya it would be 
nice to have one for this sequence also, so that a more natural connection 
could be formed between these letters.


OTOH, having said all that, I do not think any of these things are particularly 
problematic. I was able to read these ‘problematic’ glyphs easily from the 
contexts.

Original comment by xiangye@chromium.org on 3 Apr 2015 at 8:47

Attachments:

• [Normal UI Pa and Ya.png](https://storage.googleapis.com/google-code-attachments/noto/issue-177/comment-4/Normal UI Pa and Ya.png)
• [Adobe Gujarati Pa and Ya.png](https://storage.googleapis.com/google-code-attachments/noto/issue-177/comment-4/Adobe Gujarati Pa and Ya.png)
• [Nirmala Na.png](https://storage.googleapis.com/google-code-attachments/noto/issue-177/comment-4/Nirmala Na.png)
• [Adobe Gujarati Na.png](https://storage.googleapis.com/google-code-attachments/noto/issue-177/comment-4/Adobe Gujarati Na.png)

[GoogleCodeExporter]

About two years after completing the design, it is obvious that there are 
things I would do differently. When working on commission there is no 
opportunity to put the work to the side for a year and then do revisions.
Having said that: na, ja and ya have been part of the character set of the 
design proposals. The open loop of na is typical for a geometric style. Noto 
Gujarati follows the design of Devanagari, which follows the Latin Sans, which 
is very much not geometric.  The loop of na is larger than that of the 
Devanagari na, and higher to make it appear more prominent. With hindsight it 
might be larger in the Bold, but I do not see why it should be in the regular. 
It could be wider. I think the full form would benefit as much as the half form.

Gujarati does not have a strong pattern of shapes, especially in monoline 
designs. So to tie the shapes together I am relying on common treatment of 
curves: all curves have the same gradual change of direction. Which makes tall 
curves relatively wide. This may have made the ja a bit wide. 
Because the lack of a strong pattern, wider spacing makes characters distances 
in words too loose in relation to the word spaces (no point to make the word 
space wider, when most of the time the space of the latin is used anyway). 

A j-ya ligature can be added. Not sure if that would not look a bit to much 
like jaya. 

Original comment by jelle.bo...@monotypeimaging.com on 7 Apr 2015 at 12:45

[behdad]

cc @waksmonskiMT @roozbehp @xiangyexiao

[JelleBosmaMT]

What happens if I reply.

On 08-jun.-15 23:15, "Behdad Esfahbod" notifications@github.com wrote:

cc @waksmonskiMT https://github.com/waksmonskiMT@roozbehp
https://github.com/roozbehp
@xiangyexiao https://github.com/xiangyexiao
—
Reply to this email directly or
view it on GitHub
<https://github.com/googlei18n/noto-fonts/issues/177#issuecomment-11014245
3>.

[behdad]

Rather does the right thing.

[xiangyexiao]

I'll leave this issue open in hope that Jelle can find time to do revisions.

[nizarsq]

@marekjez86 not sure if this still a valid issue or not. I'm trying to view some attachments in this bug but apparently they are not exist anymore.