Replace the button "scan"

[tiramiseb]

"scan from feeder" and "import file(s)" are not options for "scan". With a dropdown menu like how it is now, it doesn't seem logical to me.

I would suggest putting 3 buttons one beside another in the menubar, without a dropdown menu. To keep buttons small, they may display a single word, with detailed description in tooltips:

• scan -> scan from the flatbed scanner
• multi -> scan one or multiple pages from the automatic document feeder
• import -> import a pdf file

Moreover, I think the "scan from feeder" option/button must be hidden if there is no feeder on the selected scanner.

So, the buttons in the menubar would look like:

 ------ ------- --------
| scan | multi | import |
 ------ ------- --------

or:

 ------ --------
| scan | import |
 ------ --------

instead of:

 ------ ---
| scan | v |
 ------ ---

[tiramiseb]

In order to address #524 too, the "+" button in the left part may be moved on the left of the "scan" button, the buttons block would look like:

 --- ------ ------- --------
| + | scan | multi | import |
 --- ------ ------- --------

[jflesch]

Actually, I'm already almost lacking space in the header bar ... (some people have much smaller screens than others)

[tiramiseb]

I think the separated titlebar for the left part is useless... the right part could be extended to take the whole window width

[tiramiseb]

the words may also be replaced by icons, so this group of buttons would only be as large as three or four icon buttons...

(that may even make them narrower than the "Numériser" word with the carret on the right)

[jflesch]

Hm, icons may be tricky. I'm always a little bit distrustful of them, as they may not have the same meaning for everybody (other countries culture, but also personal culture).

Since it's a GUI problem, I would appreciate the opinion of @mjourdan . Maybe he will have a great idea to fix that :)
@mjourdan : ping ?

[tiramiseb]

• "+" for "new document"
• the word "Scan" for regular scanning, like now
• an icon with 2 pages for "multi"
• the pdf icon for "import"

:)

[jflesch]

an icon with 2 pages for "multi"

Except this is icon is already used in the popup with view settings (the one that pops when you clic the button just beside the page number), and it has an entirely different meaning.

the pdf icon for "import"

But then a lot of people may think it only supports PDFs ...

[tiramiseb]

the pdf icon for "import"
But then a lot of people may think it only supports PDFs ...

It supports something else ???

[jflesch]

Yes, images (JPEG, PNG, etc ; everything that Pillow supports).

[jflesch]

You can also import a folder containing many PDFs (it even checks to avoid duplicates).

[jflesch]

Many documents (Paperwork never modifies PDF files, and one PDF = one document)

[mjourdan]

Pong!

About the left pane, I agree it has free space and the top bar feels a bit disbalanced. However, I intended to use it to solve #480. As you'll see in the wireframe1, the left part could be pretty loaded too, and it is not obvious there is room to take here. However, @tiramiseb I do find your idea of having a full width menubar with a single group of icons for adding new documents or new pages really interesting.

Regarding icons, I think they should be avoided because they are too confusing: basically all we are trying to do with paperwork is to (not having to) manage documents, so all icons will be different flavors of page: one page, two pages, a page with a wrench (wtf does this me mean!?), a page with a pencil (to write what?), a cornered page, a cornered page with a red label...

"scan from feeder" and "import file(s)" are not options for "scan". With a dropdown menu like how it is now, it doesn't seem logical to me.

Dropdown menus are not necessarily about one action with options, they can be about primary action and secondary actions. This one is. The button group you propose suggests equally important actions (which I don't agree with but why not).

If I understand well, your concern was lid and feeder can be seen as two options for the very same scan action, and import from file a separate action. Am I right?

[tiramiseb]

The button group you propose suggests equally important actions

Yep.

When one has no feeder:

• some documents are scanned papers (some invoices, contracts, etc)
• some documents are PDF documents (mainly invoices - ISP, energy bills, etc)

When one has a feeder:

• scanning from the feeder is the most important action (because most documents can be scanned this way)
• scanning from the flatbed scanner may still be useful, for some particular documents (weird formats, too light paper, etc)

I personally use the "import" action more often than the "scan" action.
Telling it is less important is an arbitrary choice which doesn't fit the need of at least one user: me.
That's why I think all scan/import options must have the same importance.

your concern was lid and feeder can be seen as two options for the very same scan action, and import from file a separate action

Nope.
They are three different actions with the same importance. The choice between them is not related to which one is the more important but to which one is suitable when scanning/importing a document.

Regarding icons, I think they should be avoided

The GNOME project have face much dissatisfaction from users when they decided to remove icons in the menus. Icons offer a better visual impression than text. Not to mention illiterate people...

[mjourdan]

The GNOME project have face much dissatisfaction from users when they decided to remove icons in the menus. Icons offer a better visual impression than text.

My point was that icons were not suitable to distinguish between feeder, flatbed and digital file. I did not meant that icons were bad under all circumstances!

Not to mention illiterate people...

Well, I doubt illiterate people is the primary target for Paperwork :p

[mjourdan]

Please find a mockup here, which aims to fix the following:

• gather "add document" and "add pages" buttons Suboptimal button position #524
• easily change source between scan jobs Changing source between scan jobs #536
• do not assume which source is the most frequently used Replace the button "scan" #537
• try to free up some space Replace the button "scan" #537

When the user wants to import a file... As of today, she clicks on the "v" button, clicks "import", and the file browser opens. With the mockup, she clicks on the "v" button, selects the source, and then clicks "add pages".

@tiramiseb, @jflesch, what do you think?

[tiramiseb]

Well, I doubt illiterate people is the primary target for Paperwork :p

Sure... Personally, I find it far easier to find icons than to find text. I'm a "visual" guy...

Regarding your mockup, I understand that for switching source I must open the menu, click on the source, then on the "add pages" button. Am I correct ?

If so, that's not acceptable: if I have a PDF to import, then 4 pages, then 1 document that is not accepted by the feeder, then another PDF to import, I have to:

• open the menu
• click on "digital file"
• click on "add pages"
• open the menu
• click on "feeder"
• click on "add pages"
• open the menu
• click on "flatbed"
• click on "add pages"
• open the menu
• click on "digital file"
• click on "add pages"

Whereas, with three buttons, I would :

• click on "import"
• click on "scan one"
• click on "scan multiple"
• click on "import"

[jflesch]

Well, first, we are starting to talk about not-so-minor UI changes, so I guess it will be for a 2.0 :-) (I'm creating the milestone). I guess the 1.1 will be mostly for optimizations and big bugfixes.

[jflesch]

Now, let's see:

• @tiramiseb : 3 buttons in the toolbar:

  • Good: makes things really clear and quickly reachable, but ..
  • Bad: takes place
  • Bad: what if I don't have a feeder ? Do we remove the multi-scan button or do we make it inactive ? If inactive, it's wasted space. If removed entirely, it means a changing UI, and changing UIs can become confusing really quickly (here we are talking about just one button, but we all know where it can go ...).

• @mjourdan : "Add page" + sources:

  • Good: adapt automatically to the most common workflow of the user, but ..
  • Bad: may be confusing : If I select "Digital file", close Paperwork, restart it 2 days later, and click on "add page", am I to expect it to make a single scan or open the import dialog ?
    • if we restore the last option used : After many days without using Paperwork, the user has to think about checking what was the last setting they used.
    • If we don't, it's kind of weird of having a setting persistent for the session but not for the following ones

I guess there is a third choice : One single button "add page". When clicked, it always opens a menu with 3 options or more ("single page", "multiple pages", "import file", ... ; kind of similar to @mjourdan's one).

• Good: clear
• Good: doesn't take much place
• Bad: adds a click on every 'add' operation, even those we assume to be the most common ones

[mjourdan]

@tiramised, correct. If I agree we should avoid unecessary steps, I won't start counting clicks. I doubt the use case you point out is common enough to qualify that of "not acceptable", though.

@jflesch, I updated the mockup so user would not have to remember anything.

Personnaly, I think it is not a good thing having both 3 actions available at the same time in the top bar. I have no time for this right now, but what could be technicaly possible:

• put the buttons suggested by tiramiseb in a toolbar
• use my proposal for narrow screens and tiramiseb's one for wide screen

[jflesch]

Oh nice :)

[jflesch]

Regarding the widescreens/narrowscreens, I'm going to say no. From a UI standpoint, I think it could work. However, from a development point of view, I have a strong feeling this is going to be really bug-prone.

But I like your single-button idea. It adapts to the user's main workflow, and at the same time remains quite clear.

[jflesch]

Although ...
I guess I'll have to give it a try. Maybe I can make it work ...

[mjourdan]

Really, I'm not a big fan of putting the triple-button in the menubar, as it would be taken for a view switcher. Moving it to a separate toolbar could avoid this, but would eat some vertical space.

[jflesch]

Hmm, I don't know about the confusion regarding the view switcher. Anyway, while 3 buttons would do the job from an ergonomic standpoint, from a purely aesthetic standpoint, I have a feeling it would look kind of ugly/overloaded :/

[tiramiseb]

mjourdan: I see your point. But it would still be the approach allowing the smaller number of clicks.

jflesh: Useful is better than pretty.

[mjourdan]

Instead of being attached to the "add page" button, the dropdown should be related to the "add paper" button: most likely, all pages of a single document should be imported from the same source. This behavior is what @tiramiseb suggested a while ago.

This would look like this. I don't know yet if the "add page" button should be hidden or grayed out for pdf.

[jflesch]

Hmm, there would be a button on the left above the doc list with "Add paper from (...) feeder", and another button on the right above the pages with "Scan (feeder)" ? Seems confusing to me :/

[tiramiseb]

"Scan" could be replaced with "Add page".

There still would be two "Add" buttons close to each other, which is sub-optimal. Maybe we can find another cleaner approach.

[mjourdan]

@jflesch how is it confusing?
@tiramiseb what's your concern here? Is it the buttons position would be too close? Is it the "add" wording or icons would be too similar? Something else?

I made an other attempt merging the page counter with a "+". As usual, comments are welcome.

[tiramiseb]

Is it the buttons position would be too close? Is it the "add" wording or icons would be too similar? Something else?

It's about the whole picture. whatever you would do about these buttons, having two independent "add something" button on the same toolbar may be disturbing.

I like your last proposal, because the "+" button is next to the pages counter : we easily understand it means "add a page". However, I would put it on the right and not on the left, because pages are added after, not before the current ones.

[jflesch]

I think having the button on the right as of now is fine : The idea is that scan / import go, by default, into the current document. They only go into another new document if there is no way to add them otherwise (PDF for instance).

I think I will go with this solution, but let the button at its current position.
I will also let the page numbers into the header bar: overlays look nice, but in my experience, they end up hiding document content (I already have this problem with buttons over the pages .. :/).

[mjourdan]

@jflesch, please wait before doing anything then, the mockup you linked too has a big flaw: it allows adding pages from several sources to a same document, which doesn't make much sense. I should take time to provide you with better mockups but I'm confident choosing the page source should be done from the add paper popover.

[jflesch]

I'm confused.

• The "add paper popover" adds whole document each time, right ? So, if the user only has a flatbed, how do they scan a multi-pages documents ?
• With the "add paper popover", you have to select the source every time, right ? Wouldn't it be a bit painful when you want to scan a 20 pages document with only a flatbed scanner ?

[mjourdan]

This popover would appear once for each document, to select the source of the document. If the user only has a flatbed, he would first have to click the "add document" button, choose between "scan from flatbed" and "import file" in the popover, then press the "scan" button page after page (20 times for a 20 pages document).

Hope this clarifies. What do you think?

[jflesch]

Ok, I get it now :-). I totally missed that the scan button was still there.

I guess it could make sense

[jflesch]

I just wonder if it's a good idea to restrict a document to one specific source ... Hm I guess whatever happens, users can still fix things using drag'n'drop ...

[jflesch]

If we go this way, I think I will also simplify the multi-scan dialog (feeder). Since I use Paperwork, I have never once scanned more than 1 or 2 documents at the same time (maybe 3 once). So I think it's safe to make the multi-scan dialog focus on only one document at a time.

[mjourdan]

I just wonder if it's a good idea to restrict a document to one specific source ...

Well, if you have to gather pieces from different sources, this means you actually have separate documents you want to merge in Paperwork.

Hm I guess whatever happens, users can still fix things using drag'n'drop ...

Yep. Perhaps a "merge" button could help too?

So I think it's safe to make the multi-scan dialog focus on only one document at a time.

Yeah, it seems much simpler to repeat the "new document" 3 times than importing all off them at once, then splitting them off.

I read this thread again and I must say I'm confused because I couldn't find the latest wireframes I made for this. So here they are:

• https://github.com/mjourdan/gnome-design/blob/master/paperwork/experiments-2.0/add-paper-scan-from-feeder.png
• https://github.com/mjourdan/gnome-design/blob/master/paperwork/experiments-2.0/add-paper-scan-from-flatbed.png

You'll see there is still a couple of thing to settle (delete the field to specify the number of pages, choose where to place the scanner settings button, for example), but overall I think it would make the scan process more straightforward and solve both #537 and #524. Thoughts?