Long term release for Linux

[yoasif]

I took a look at the Linux page: https://www.privacyguides.org/linux-desktop/ prior to setting up a family member with a laptop for them to use, and I found that all of the recommendations require a lot of maintenance. That may be fun for people who are very interested in computing, but for people who want to have something that is an appliance - usable for years and stable, there are no options on this page.

Is that something that can be talked about on this page? I know that there seems to be a bias against this kind of stability, but both Apple and Microsoft support this kind of use case, and it would be a pity if this could not be supported on Linux.

[jonaharagon]

I'm not aware of Microsoft or Apple supporting this type of use-case, could you share an example? LTS distros are generally regarded as being very bad for desktop computing.

I would really encourage you to reconsider a rolling release distro for your family member. Sticking them with old, buggy, and outdated code is only going to cause you more maintenance issues, not less. It requires you to make a lot of one-time exceptions and repo additions when it turns out you need something modern, which will in turn leave you with software stacks that interact very poorly with each other. Regular updates are just a click of a button and save a ton of headache in the long-run.

[dngray]

Windows 10 was released in 2015 and will be supported until 2025. Catalina is less nice, but has had two years of support so far.

I don't think that is what I asked for - I don't think people who are running Windows 10 or Catalina are stuck with "old, buggy and outdated code". They still get updates.

It's worth noting though Windows, and macOS are really more rolling release these days, especially Windows 10. The only reason I think Windows 11 is a thing is because hardware certification requirements changed to require things like TPM. It's certainly not like the old days with 'service packs'.

I would suggest just going with Fedora, and accepting updates as they come through. https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/quick-docs/upgrading/

[jonaharagon]

Windows 10 was released in 2015 and will be supported until 2025.

Just because they don't rename it doesn't mean it's the same OS. Windows 10 builds are typically supported 1-3 years at the enterprise level, never near 5-10.

[yoasif]

I'm not sure how you are delineating whether something is the same OS if it isn't named differently - people said Windows XP was the same OS the whole way through, even after SP1, SP2, SP3, SP4. Same basic idea, I think. There are often big updates, but they aren't new releases - at least in the way we think of named releases.

[jonaharagon]

@yoasif You could say the same thing about Fedora releases in that case, is all I'm saying. Frequent and preferably automatic updates are practically mandatory on modern computers. You are going to have the exact same experience upgrading from Windows 10 20H2 to Windows 10 21H2 as you would upgrading from Fedora 34 to Fedora 35. Either of those upgrades are just as major.

[yoasif]

@jonaharagon It seems to me then that Ubuntu has a real advantage in this use case, even versus Windows, since Windows is more like Fedora, but Ubuntu is more like macOS (or CentOS).

[razac-elda]

I found that all of the recommendations require a lot of maintenance.

I would like more details on this one, why would Fedora require more maintenance than Ubuntu/Debian in your opinion? Updates are covered by other responses.

[yoasif]

It would require extra care every year on major updates - and major updates often have problems, regardless of OS or distribution. If a tech-savvy person isn't around to pick up the pieces, it can be a real headache to resolve. Essentially, I'm looking for something that is as close to a bulletproof appliance as possible (for as long as possible).

[razac-elda]

So the major problem are updates. If we are talking about "bulletproof" you could run something like Rocky Linux that each release should be supported for 10 years, but this is not ideal for a desktop users.

Even if the computer will only be used for browsing you need a certain degree of upgrades to get new useful features. Windows does this with updates like "21h2", also you can update any program by simply downloading the new installer easily. On Linux since everything comes from a repo, and you do not want to manage anything, you will need to upgrade at some point.

If you really want to set up Linux maybe Fedora Silverblue/Kinoite will help you, it will be very hard to break something and in that case you could downgrade.

Also, before switching make sure to understand all your family member's needs and double check that everything can be done on Linux.

[dngray]

This is why I suggested in above comment to just use Fedora Workstation. https://github.com/privacyguides/privacyguides.org/discussions/918#discussioncomment-2514003

When an update is offered, it will be integrated nicely with the "Software" tool.

For least friction I would just go with that. Its also worth noting with Debian you won't have a regular release of Firefox, they only have ESR.

A new Fedora comes out twice a year and is supported for 13 months.

Maybe just advise your family member to not hit the "recommended upgrade" as soon as soon as available, but any time in the next "6 months" is fine.

[yoasif]

Ubuntu seems like a better choice, since it has support for 5 years on desktop, and Firefox can be updated via snap (I believe that this is the default in the upcoming LTS). That has less friction than an upgrade every year or so.

[jonaharagon]

If you really want to set up Linux maybe Fedora Silverblue/Kinoite will help you, it will be very hard to break something and in that case you could downgrade.

Silverblue is definitely the way to go for anyone who can exclusively run Flatpak applications (i.e. less tech savvy people).