For a shop both cafe and bakery

[tntchn]

Few days ago when I mapping a bakery/cafe (85°C bakery cafe) nearby my home, I found that the brand is classified as cafe without shop=bakery. And when I checked the cafe.json I found that none of the cafe have shop=bakery tag.

name-suggestion-index/brands/amenity/cafe.json

Lines 24 to 37 in 77d562a

	"amenity/cafe|85度C": {
	"locationSet": {"include": ["cn", "tw"]},
	"tags": {
	"amenity": "cafe",
	"brand": "85度C",
	"brand:en": "85C Bakery Cafe",
	"brand:wikidata": "Q4644852",
	"brand:wikipedia": "en:85C Bakery Cafe",
	"cuisine": "coffee_shop",
	"name": "85度C",
	"name:en": "85C Bakery Cafe",
	"takeaway": "yes"
	}
	},

Then I found Paul, a French bakery branch. I Google a lot and found that in many of the Paul customers buy bread and some of them may sit there and have a cup of coffee, matching the description of amenity=cafe but only in bakery.json

name-suggestion-index/brands/shop/bakery.json

Lines 671 to 680 in 77d562a

	"shop/bakery|Paul": {
	"locationSet": {"include": ["001"]},
	"tags": {
	"brand": "Paul",
	"brand:wikidata": "Q3370417",
	"brand:wikipedia": "en:Paul (bakery)",
	"name": "Paul",
	"shop": "bakery"
	}
	},

I also checked taginfo there are more than 3000 elements have amenity=cafe + shop=bakery at the same time. I believe that bakery cafe is a common type of store all around the world and amenity=cafe + shop=bakery is a good way to tag them.

So I have few questions:

1. Why don't we add shop=bakery on 85°C and add amenity=cafe on Paul and
2. If we should do it then how shall we consider to put them in cafe.json or bakery.json?

[bhousel]

This relates to PR #4005 and Juan Valdez Cafe too. There are no perfect answers to these questions, but I will try to explain my thinking about what the tags mean.

We mostly try to assign a single amenity or shop tag because these tags imply different things.

amenity=cafe - you place a drink order, someone makes it for you, there is seating if you want to stay
shop=bakery - you buy your stuff and probably leave, best not to assume there is seating

I agree that there are places where both things are equally true and where assigning both tags would be appropriate - but most places lean towards one or the other. We try to add whichever single tag best matches the businesses. We also are ok with changing the tags later if mappers picked an imperfect tag initially, or if a new better tag gains acceptance.

Just because a customer can buy snacks or coffee beans at a coffeehouse and leave , doesn't make a cafe into a shop=bakery or a shop=coffee (or worse a shop=bakery;coffee). Just because a customer can have an espresso and sit on a chair outside an Italian bakery doesn't make that bakery into an amenity=cafe.

Additionally, sometimes it is more appropriate to tag the different parts of a business as different features (a point for the shop and a point for the cafe). This is true when the different parts have different phone numbers, opening hours, etc..

There have been some related issues where people have either asked for support for dual tagging, or asked for a way to hint to the user that features should split into separate POIs - neither of these are really easy to do.
#3079
openstreetmap/iD#6920

So all that said, if you really want to add both amenity=* and shop=* tags on a brand, we can do it, but there should be a really good reason, and you can expect some software (like iD and OsmAnd) to just pick one or the other when it encounters it. (For example should the map pin show a ☕ or 🛍️ or 🍴? It might not matter, but if it does, then we should pick the tag that implies that kind of feature.)

[TheAdventurer64]

Should this be closed?

[codeinabox]

I had to make a similar decision about GAIL's in the UK and went with bakery as that's what they market themselves as.