*: package rkt for Debian #1307
Comments
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I know this is an external bug, but would it be possibe to re-open this bug and close it once it reached Debian/Ubuntu (i.e. the bug there was closed)? Thank you! |
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@deucalion that's exactly the idea, this issue will remain open until rkt is packaged for Debian. |
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For ubuntu/debian systems that don't mount cgroup controllers individually in |
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FWIW looks like there's a new maintainer: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=782441#26 |
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@onlyjob you are the new maintainer, aren't you? Welcome here! |
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Thanks for warm welcome, Alban. :) |
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Cross referencing from #1594 (comment):
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I was looking around to see the status of this. It looks like @onlyjob got rkt It looks like getting it updated shouldn't be too hard, especially with all the improvements made to stage1's and the build system. |
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As usual time and funding are the issues. Package builds and works but ~20 dependency packages to be introduced to Debian in order to upload rkt. I'm struggling to allocate time for that and so far nobody volunteered to help... |
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@onlyjob What sort of funding issues? Also, I reached out to a few debian developers I know who might be able to help. I will let you know. |
I work faster if effort is paid for... If some company interested to help introducing rkt to Debian they can help by sponsoring this work... None of my clients are funding packaging rkt... |
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rkt is vendoring unreleased snapshot of appc/cni so it looks like the latter needs a release bump... |
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Only one dependency is blocking rkt -- https://github.com/appc/cni; |
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I believe this is fixed! http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=782441 |
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rkt was indeed accepted to Debian so this is fixed. https://packages.qa.debian.org/r/rkt.html Thanks for all your help, guys. :) |
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Good news! What about Ubuntu?.. |
Soon enough Ubuntu will leech rkt from Debian, just like they routinely leech almost all Debian packages... I recommend to stay away from Ubuntu and use Debian. |
Okay, I hope, it will be available soon after Xenial release..
Why?.. Both systems looks stable (I compare Ubuntu Xenial LTS [which will will see in 1-2 weeks] with Debian), 5 years support - both systems... My choice of Ubuntu mostly related with new versions of packages and kernel and recommendation from projects like Couchbase (in past were 2 main versions - RedHat and Ubuntu) or Openstack ( http://docs.openstack.org/ here they have installation guide for RedHat and Ubuntu, but not for Debian)... Also Microsoft going to integrate Ubuntu (not Debian) to Windows 10... Also Ubuntu is more popular system than Debian - it's more easy to get help about installing anything to it... Anyway they both are nice systems... |
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Why avoid Ubuntu? Because using derivative takes you further away from source of knowledge and introduce delays to propagation of fixes. Ubuntu is just about 2000 supported packages when Debian have more than 50_000. Almost everything Ubuntu pulls from Debian is doomed to rot without bugs being forwarded to Debian or even answered by someone who knows how to deal with the problem. With Ubuntu you'll be waiting for most packages to be fixed in Debian simply because Debian have more manpower. Ubuntu have history of introducing disruptive and incompatible changes (e.g. upstart) and break things that are working in Debian. Ubuntu is known for occasionally pulling experimental (i.e. not suitable for release) packages from Debian. Ubuntu releases on schedule which is harmful practice in software development. Ubuntu adds additional restrictions on top of permissive licenses and uses controversial contributor's agreement. Ubuntu have corporate agenda and ultimately it exists to tie users into services that provide financial benefit to Canonical. I suppose one of my biggest concerns is that as much as Ubuntu needs to share their improvements with Debian they also need to withheld some "added value" in order to justify Ubuntu's very existence. Unfortunately unlike pure blends and decent Debian derivatives like Grml that have good technical justification and niche, Ubuntu is harmful because it divides community of Debian users and creates needless fragmentation. Debian is more trustworthy because it is community governed. I could continue with more arguments... @lorddaedra, your preferred choice of Ubuntu is most likely based on ignorance rather than on understanding differences between Debian and Ubuntu. You might find it interesting that Debian have backports suite with newer packages; |
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I like Debian too, it was my first or second linux (first was AltLinux on desktop) 9 years ago. I think, I mostly like Linux itself than any of Linux-based OS.. I just would like to install system with latest kernel and latest Rkt / Openstack... All other things will be inside containers... So main thing that matter for me: speed of getting new updates: I would like to use latest kernel and software. If something goes wrong, I can reinstall it all. (It's okay if server will unavailable during maintenance every night for 2-3 hours, together with backups and IPMI support from motherboard it give me ability to use latest stable versions of all software without any problem, I can even automate it with Salt Stack). According to Mark Shuttleworth, founder of Canonical, Ubuntu's parent company, 55 percent of OpenStack operating systems are on Ubuntu... (I do not need Openstack for now, but I would like to play with OpenStack+Ironic+network filesystems+CoreOS+Kubernetes+... after I will have more than 3 servers for cloud...) For now I just would like to have latest kernel versions and latest Rkt and all software put to containers and run them via systemd service files & Rkt. But not sure about kernel: usually I used Ubuntu because of newer kernel versions, it marked as stable, in Debian they are exists too (may be) but marked as unstable (so no one help me if I will find bug, they all will say: hey, you are using beta-versions, what else do you expect?..)... I see main difference as: Centos and Debian for people who prefer stable and old software, Fedora and Ubuntu for people who prefer update system every day... |
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On Debian you can always install newer kernel from official backports. Alternatively you can use "testing" suite if "stable" is too old for you. Linux kernel is very well maintained in Debian. For (actively maintained) OpenStack on Debian see the following pages: @lorddaedra, did you read what I've said about derivatives? CentOS is a derivative with all the problems I've mentioned. Main difference between CentOS and Ubuntu is that CentOS aims to be as much RHEL as possible without much ambitions while Ubuntu copy Debian and change it dramatically (break it) as well as claim that Ubuntu is somewhat "better" which is simply not true for almost every aspect of "betterness". It is no use to say "Debian is for stable and old software". What do you think we are doing here? Packaging "old and stable" rkt? Besides there are different Debian suites -- "stable", "testing" and "unstable" as well as "jessie-backports" and "oldstable". Chose one that suites you best. |
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@onlyjob, I partially agree with you. Not all things related with Ubuntu are good.. For example, I think, systemd is really nice system, much better than sysvinit or upstart... And Ubuntu was latest distro who started to use systemd... (I thought to switch to Fedora if Ubuntu will stay with upstart...) I prefer to use best components, but in this case Ubuntu was too slow ... In other things I like Ubuntu steps, their vision. For example, I like Ubuntu as desktop OS, I like Unity, user experience on Ubuntu for me as user most close to Mac OS X user experience, I think, it's good. And I think, Ubuntu is better than Debian as desktop system because of Unity. I like systems like Gnome 3 or Unity, they looks modern. People from debian IRC channel says, Debian testing channel is not for server usage. They suggested stable + backports... But in case of, for example, Openstack https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=openstack-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org new packages not available for stable channel in Debian, but available in Ubuntu. [Not problem for me now - I think, I will try to play with Openstack by Mirantis, I feel it will be better than installing Openstack by Canonical/RedHat/Novell....] For now with single server I feel, every OS will works fine. Because of I need only few packages - may be Salt Stack (for deployment containers, from official Salt Stack repository), Rkt (for running containers) and Postgres (may be I will pack it too, may be not - but anyway from official PostgreSQL repository), latest Docker (from official Docker repository) latest kernel and systemd and nothing more... As you see, from list of packages, which versions are matter for me, only Rkt and Linux will be installed from OS repositories... And I feel after some weeks, CoreOS founders will start to support official Rkt repositories for all popular OSes to make new Rkt available for all Linux-based OSes in day of release on Git. It looks logical, all companies and communities do the same... So for me it's more question about Ubuntu kernel version and settings vs Debian kernel version and settings... |
It looks funny, but yes. If you will send Rkt packages to OS repositories then at the end after some years or months you will see big difference between Rkt version on github and Rkt version in OS repository... To fix that companies usually provide their own official repositories. It require additional time&money but I feel, CoreOS will pay for that - if Rkt will be popular app - it will increase interest to CoreOS and their services at the end and they will earn more money, so this additional expenses looks as good investments. |
@onlyjob thanks for the work! Should this issue be closed, or is there anything else to track here?
@lorddaedra I believe nobody has started the work for packaging rkt on Ubuntu. Feel free to open a new issue to track the status. I'm happy to help packagers from all distros to package rkt. I would also like to have some distro-specific documentation on https://github.com/coreos/rkt/blob/master/Documentation/distributions.md. It has some doc about some distributions but nothing about Debian or Ubuntu yet. PRs for this welcome :) |
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@alban, please close this bug. We're done here! :) :) @lorddaedra, I just want to add that nice interface is not worth having 97% unsupported packages on your system. Besides Unity is a matter of taste and some find it distasteful... I'm tired of reasoning with you and clearly you do not understand benefits and added value of software provided from native Debian repositories. One of the great things about Debian is that it is the best source of software you may need. Vendor package repositories are by definition inferior without distro quality control, continuous integration, security support, policy compliance, etc. Once packaging is ready the natural (and the best) thing to do is to work with distribution maintainers to ship software through official distro repositories. Vendor repositories have many problems that are not specific to particular software but rather to approach in general. Anyway I have no intention to contribute more to this discussion. Cheers. |
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Thanks! :) |
Please, confirm I correctly understand your point of view. Do you say about packages from ubuntu repositories or about packages, which were installed by default during standard Ubuntu install?... |
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@lorddaedra, I've said that about repositories of course. I don't know what percentage of unsupported packages installed by default... |
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May I suggest that there are plenty of other places to have a discussion
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You are certainly right, @yuvipanda. Sorry about that. Over and out. :) |
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Okay :-) Thank you for discussion. :-) |
Ticket to track the progress of rkt being packaged for Debian.
This will not be performed by the rkt team, but this issue should track any work that needs to happen to unblock packaging.
Upstream Debian bug: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=782441
TODO:
have tagged releases for dependencies
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