🚀 Exciting News: Announcing Daikin Europe Developer Portal! 🚀 #182
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Great news @Daikin-Europe ! Hopefully there will be much more information available from the Daikin devices, especially from the Altherma 3 device I would like to see much more details! |
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Thank you @Daikin-Europe . I have created a new PR #183 that reduces the polling time to every 15 minutes, as you suggested, for everybody to try. |
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A rate limit of 150 calls is enough for an AC unit, but not for an Altherma, those change much faster, would love to see a higher rate there |
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As @rospogrigio said, implement local network access! P.S. I will send some feedback to my installer. Until this is fixed I will not recommend this product to anyone. Good hardware, but if you decide to cripple it ... |
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For the Altherma there is a separate HA integration, at some point I want to extend that integration also with support for the AC devices, see https://github.com/jwillemsen/daikin_residential_altherma |
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@Daikin-Europe Cool, good news, keep us updated. But basically I agree to the discussed topics above about rate limits vs local access. |
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1 update per 15 minutes seems a bit low ..? My AC goes from 18 to 23 degrees in 15 minutes (small room).. I can understand limiting to 1 call a minute (instead of 15 seconds) or 150 change operations/day (setting temp/hvac mode), but it's also about showing the actual state in Home Assistant (current/target temperate, hvac mode, on/off), so 15 minutes seems a long time to reflect the current state on your dashboards, which means the dashboard is not really useful. Thanks for the Developer API though, just hope it doesn't cripple the HA integration, instead of making it better.. |
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To elaborate on my earlier comment. Maybe I am jumping the gun here, but this announcement seems like a crass form of corporate language to me. DAIKIN describing a serious deterioration in thier product as a great new feature for developers. Maybe my concern is unfounded, but there are recent examples of other companies ... this is called enshittification https://doctorow.medium.com/the-enshittification-of-garage-door-openers-reveals-a-vast-and-deadly-rot-eed85da5b0ba As for the corporate speak: you are not making sure you are able to continue this free service. This is not a free service. As customers, we already paid for this feature, so it is not free. I paid for a device, I didn't subscribe to a service. In my case, I paid a 5 digit EUR sum for DAIKIN devices. There is no technical reason for denying local access. This is proven by my Comfora unit with the older WIFI modules (if I had known I would only have installed the cheaper Comfora units and not the more expensive, newer units). Local access works well, no cloud needed (so no cost for DAIKIN to run servers for a "free" cloud service most customers don't want). The only reason to make cloud mandatory is to grab data and lock us into using their apps. The Since my last comment, I found this https://github.com/revk/ESP32-Faikin and ordered several of the pre-assembled PCBs. I fear this will be the only way to truely own the DAIKIN devices that I paid for. But again, please prove me wrong @Daikin-Europe . To all the others who left ❤️ emojis, please re-read the announcement carefully, with the garage door enshittification in mind and your translator for corporate speak turned to "on". There needs to be massive push-back against @Daikin-Europe disowning its customers. |
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Yes @VolkerH , I see a common trend with several other IOT vendors about this, that set up everything to be cloud-oriented, and then they realize how high is the cost for them to maintain the cloud connection, and consequently start cutting off the service. My Xiaomi vacuum cleaner, for example, now no longer shows the real time map if you make too many requests, and so we users needed so setup a hack within HA in order to reduce the calls and stay within the rate limitation. I really don't understand this approach, as you say local access is faster and more secure. Cloud connection is nice to have as an add-on, but shouldn't be the only way to interact with the device on the network. Just my 2 cents, let's wait and check wheter @Daikin-Europe want to reply something. |
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I guess @Daikin-Europe will never reply here. Just dropped the "bad news PR". BTW: the same also happened to the VW API for their electric cars. And there even is an annual subscription fee for "connected services". I am/was thinking about purchasing an Altherma. I am now reconsidering. Albeit is is becoming really hard to own any hardware I paid for. General trend. |
The only solution to all of these issues is to go with an alternative (open source) firmware, e.g. Faikin for Daikin ACs and valetudo for vacuum cleaners. Leave their cloud and never look back. Maybe this will make them sane again once enough customers stop using/buying their products. |
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No Faikin for FTXM71WVMA with wifi controller BRP084C44. Restricting API call frequency to 15m shows that the whole ‘cloud only’ drive was marketing not engineering or customer based at Daikin. Marketing people should only be in meetings at a ratio of 1 in 5. There should never be rooms with only marketing people in them. |
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The more interesting question from my perspective is how that should work withthe Onecta App? All the non tech users will use the app whenever they want and expect current data ... So the App-API will then maybe not have such rate limits (because honestly else normal users will make big noise) , but an "open API" will have? This also makes not that much sense ... |
I believe the app will be allowed to perform more frequent polling, or possibly it would update -let's say- every 5 minutes and I highly doubt that anyone would notice. Still would be nice from @Daikin-Europe to have some answers to all the questions asked in the thread so far... but they just threw the stone and hid their hand, as we say in Italy 😉 |
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If polling for dashboard status updates is rate-limited to the imposed maximum of 150 calls/day, that doesn't seem to leave sufficient 'bandwidth' for actual commands? I want to use automations to operate the A/C under my own scheduling and these additional calls would be on top of those performing the 15m polling. And how does this all work out when multiple A/C units are being polled? |
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If all the units are connected to the same account, with each polling you get the data from all the units so don't worry for this. But you do are right when you say that each command you send is a call that goes on top of the polling commands. |
In which case it would definitely appear that we need a way of setting the polling rate as has been suggested. Personally I think I will be removing the cards from the dashboard as such stale information is offensive. I also wonder if the 'too frequent' polling is what is affecting my use of the Onecta app to control the A/Cs? I don't know if it's a general thing but the response time is lousy when using the app - very often a new setting does nothing and then shortly after the displayed new setting reverts to how the device was. A frequent culprit is "Powerful mode" which needs several goes at selecting it before it engages. |
I noticed that problem as well. I "fixed" it by increasing the polling time to 90 seconds inside the current code. I think the value is definined in init. |
So this lends support to having a user-adjustable polling time. At the moment, this integration would appear to be interfering with my domestic heating system. Can you be a bit more specific about the whereabouts of the polling time you made an edit to? I searched the repo but could only find TIMEOUT = 60 in custom_components/daikin_residential/const.py |
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The rate limits seem substantially low, and if this is a problem removing local API access seems like you're intentionally removing a great number of use cases. Let me explain my use case (via Home Assistant):
This means I can pre-chill my house while the sun is shining to give us good comfort with no or low energy usage in the evening, while accounting for variable solar input and variable other loads. When the dishwasher is running its heater, the air con temperature is allowed to warm up a bit. |
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Does these rate limits mean that someone can start the AC from Onecta or IR and Home Assistant will only know after 15 minutes? That is shit @Daikin-Europe . Where is the local control we wanted for months that do not suppose a cost for your cloud? |
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I have to come back on my previous comment, a rate of 1 times per minute still looks slow when the AC is controlled through onecta and monitored through HA, a rate of 1 times per 10 minutes is really too slow |
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IMO It's all a bit of an unpleasant mess now. I suspect the choice of rate limiting to 50/day has been set by them to cover half-hourly dynamic energy pricing. It's not been chosen with a view to real time monitoring but for slow 'smart grid' applications. Ultimately this is my goal so I can live without the 'nice to have' dashboard integration. But I'll be sad to have to remove it. And it definitely rules out fine-grained adaptive solar PV integration. My family wouldn't appreciate losing control using the Onecta app on their smartphones - otherwise the brilliant Faikin would be my go-to solution. I currently have polling from HA set to every 5 minutes and it's still getting the 288 calls a day through OK. The Onecta app is still a bit laggy but I don't feel it's any worse than before I started using this integration. |
Depending of the availability of the S21 port, I think you can use both? Eg. the Perfera has built-in Wifi for Onecta, so adding Faikin would allow both Onecta and direct Faikin control I think? |
Possibly, - I know there's a modbus adaptor available for most indoor units and I had the impression both could co-exist. |
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Is there any updated release ETA on this yet? |
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Commenting just to note that, while is honourable that Daikin is trying to acommodate some "extreme cases", as others already said that feels way underwhelming. I am sorry this is not acceptable, sadly after expending a good amount of money for the WIFI module, I see myself looking for fakin and the likes. |
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@jwillemsen thx again for all your valuable work! I just tried to install beta v4 on HA docker install, upgraded to docker latest also today. I have some issues to get the integration activated. I followed the readme for the install. After HA restart, I could successfully start the dialog via "add integration" button. Interered my name and (email, password) which I also use for the Onecta app. Then, I got redirected to daikin.eu for login. This one did NOT work. No matter what I entered, it always came back with the same screen again - but no error message. I also have a second account for onecta, which I alwo tried. So I discarded that try, I called the daikin site manually and could log in with my other account (which I think is the actual owner vs. user). Then I tried adding the integration again. This time it did not ask me for credentials, it connected to daikin.eu, which brought me straight to the authorization dialog (so far looked good). I permitted access, was redirected to HA and then only a small "Daiking onecta" window was presented with a close button. After I closed it, I could not find it in the installed integration list. I thought this might be to the user ID differences. So I went to ./config/.storage/application_credentials and change the credentials to the one in use by the screen session. I restarted HA again and tried re-adding. Some thing as before - Daikin auth dialog appeared, accepted, got redirected, got the small Window but integration not in active integration. Then I rebooted the client machine where I ran HA GUI. Retried, same result. Inside the HA log I found: So I am finally stuck. Is there maybe anything that I need to reset/clean-up before I retry? Did I misinterpret the three fields Daiking_onecta asks me about (I can't get that dialog back again, so I cannot say what exactly the labels were). Sorry if some questions are pretty basic (like reset-to-known-good). Any help would be deeply appreciated. |
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The daikin_onecta integration should redirect to the daikin website, it doesn't ask for user/password. I each time remove the daikin_onecta integration from HA, when it ask what it should do with the user credentials I select to delete those, when you now add it again it should ask again for the client id/secret and redirect to the Daikin website. |
it does, but it asks for three things before I do so. I cannot remove the integration from HA, because it is not in the installed list. When I add the integration now, it immediately redirects me to Daikin, I permit access and then I get the dialog in the first screenshot:
After I click "Link Account, I get this screenshot:
I click close and after that I cannot find any trace of daikin_onecta in the active list of integrations. Note that in |
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When you go to Settings/Devices & Services there are three buttons in the top right corner with "application credentials" when you click on that, go to that page and see if there are credentials cached, if so, remove them and try again |
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Important is that the code is under custom_components/daikin_onecta, when you have a daikin_residential_altherma directory you should rename it, looks to be a limitation in HA related to translations |
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Please create an issue in my project @rgerhards, that is easier for everyone |
will do |
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@Daikin-Europe |
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@wittimagic can you elaborate? The MMI (which runs the schedules and the heat pump etc) has a wired connection, and to my understanding doesn't need the cloud to operate. I was under the impression that the cloud is only required for the API and the smartphone app to talk to the MMI to control the device. So why would the cloud being offline leave you with a cold house? If the basic schedule/heating functions of the heat pump require an internet connection and the cloud service to be running, then that is very much a problem, but I didn't think that's how it works.... |
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I am running a/c systems ("Emura") to heat the house. The device schedules need the cloud service for every individual setting. You can of course use the remote control as a backup. But it than overwrites every single setting with whatever was last set with the remote. This can be very inconvenient, if you used it during summer for cooling last time. |
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@Webreaper the airco WiFi module BRP069C4x hasn't even got a LAN API anymore....... I have one of those, and 7 other airco units that still have a local LAN API. I do not want to lose that functionality !! So I do not want to have the firmware updated (which happens via Onecta and until now required an explicit end user approval) if that discards the local LAN API. |
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Somewhat off-topic, but would it be preferable at this point (if buying a new heatpump/equipping an existing heatpump with a new adapter) to go for stock AirZone Aidoo adapters instead of the ones Daikin are selling for Onecta/Comfort Control? The DKN Cloud Wi-Fi adapter for ductless (BRP072A43?) is refered to as AZAI6WSC__DKB__ in some of Daikin's material, and appears to be identical to a AZAI6WSC__DA0__, probably with some sort of custom firmware. The same goes for their Daikin Plus adapter, which is a AZAI6WSPDK__C__. I can't find much info on the BRP084Cxx or BRP069Cxx controllers and can't see them listed in the publically available documents I can put my hands on, strangely enough. The main reasons to go for the official adapter appears to be energy monitoring, horizontal louver control and mode control (powerful mode and eco mode, namely), among all the other advanced settings AirZone don't touch/read, but... even those look limited, and with all the ongoing issues of going cloud-only, breaking the API, removing sensors, limiting polling rates, and other shenanigans, even those few extras make the offer look mightily unappealing. EDIT: I ended up gonig with ESP32-Faikin controllers, which seemed like the least compromising mean of controlling my systems remotely. I still find it staggering for incoherent and confusing Daikin's offer for remote controllers is. Even Daikin's flagship Daikin One solution loses you things like Comfort Airflow and Powerful mode. The Airzone controllers are even more of a step down because they don't support basic things like horizontal swing. The European controllers this thread is about have now lost local control through an update, and are therefore useless. None of the S21 control systems can account for auto-setback from the presence sensor ("Intelligent eye mode") or configure it, which seems to be something reserved for P1P2 wired controllers like the Nav controller or Madoka/Stylish, which are not available on most residential units. All official solutions seemed to come with compromises, so I went with the unofficial one. |
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I asked Daikin if there are any plans for a local API in the future and this was the answer: Daikin is not listening to their customers or simply ignoring them. |
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Humble brag incoming; I'm exited to share my service built on the new official API - Cloud smart grid for Daikin 
Key takeaway: current rate-limit is not an issue for this use case. |
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So any changes or news so far? I have new an offer for a new set of Daikin split devices and a ceiling unit for my dental office. Integration in HomeAssistant is a must. I had now one device here for testing puposes delivered by my really friendly aircon company. I set it up with the newest integration from our dear member @jwillemsen and the only thing i can do is see the temp sensor. No changing temp or HAVC modes. I mean, i have to pay about 16k for this devices and would really appreciate to integrate it in my home automation system.... |
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@hundsboog please open an issue an attach the device diagnostics and a run with debug enabled (see readme) strange that you only see a temperature |
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@jwillemsen thank you for your highspeed response! I try what you recommend. But should it normally work? This unit is really brand new... |
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It could be that you have a device with some features my code doesn’t support @hundsboog, it is a lot of work to handle all possible devices |
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At least one thing should be provided in every case (please, thanks :)) and that is: The HTTP.GET Request via local API to let the owners read the data of THEIR devices as often its necessary for them. There are many good reasons for this (and really no single one against).
Without a free HTTP.GET-Request -function via local API the whole becomes a shicanery stuff which is not really recommendable. |
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It appears @Daikin-Europe broke the old API today. I guess it's time to install those Faikin boards on the weekend. |
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I am thinking about buying those as well or alternatively building them myself via esp32.
I already hit the limit without doing something weird during the day. This is really very annoying. I requested a higher limit for my account but Daikin is not answering my mail request. The situation is very sad and I really don't understand why Daikin is not offering a local API for their customers as a alternative. @Daikin-Europe Your are heading in a wrong direction with this strategy ! What do you expect is going to happen ? |
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@Daikin-Europe I just wanted to let you and other know why a a) local interface is vital and b) the current rate limit really is far too low. We need to have one, at least two minute query intervals to gather stats sufficently relevant to optimize a system. Have a look at some graphs from my system, which is equipped with my own external sensors. Without them, understanding what the machines does is very hard and insufficient to do any optimization and even less for controling the unit (e.g. solar or temperature boost). I thought sharing a real-world use case may be useful. Note that the graph shown is only a subset of what I have.
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@Daikin-Europe bring the local API back, make no sense to pull cloud for retrieving local data! |
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Sad to see that Daikin is not willing to bring back any kind of local API. So for the time being my advice is: |
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I am so disappointed in this. I cannot recommend their otherwise excellent
products because of this disrespectful treatment of their customers.
…On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 at 20:51, wittimagic ***@***.***> wrote:
Sad to see that Daikin is not willing to bring back any kind of local API.
Having multiple Units within the same account eats up the current cloud
based rate limit for queries too fast. Any kind of intelligent home
automation is not possible under this circumstances.
Cloud based control is never as stabke as a local API and only works as
long as the providing company decides that they are willing to provide
functionality.
So for the time being my advice is:
Don't buy Daikin products.
@Daikin-Europe <https://github.com/Daikin-Europe>
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This is absolutely insufferable @Daikin-Europe. Your company has basically removed features I selected your devices for. I can no longer use my automations whenever the internet is down (which happens more often than I'd like). |
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The firmware was changed to remove local control Immediately after I
purchased the product. 👹
…On Thu, 25 Apr 2024 at 05:23, Hexadecimalism ***@***.***> wrote:
This is absolutely insufferable @Daikin-Europe
<https://github.com/Daikin-Europe>. Your company has basically removed
features I selected your devices for. I can no longer use my automations
whenever the internet is down (which happens more often than I'd like).
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and others
Dear Developers and Tech Enthusiasts,
We are thrilled to announce the new Daikin Europe Developer Portal. This platform is dedicated to empowering developers like you to unlock the full potential of Daikin air2air and air2water heat pumps, fostering innovation in the world of climate control.
🌐 What is the Developer Portal?
Our Developer Portal is your gateway to a world of endless possibilities with Daikin products.
Whether you're an experienced developer, a company exploring opportunities or just starting your coding journey, this platform is your ultimate resource for building and integrating with our technologies.
It's a one-stop destination for all things development-related, offering documentation and resources to supercharge your projects.
🛠️ Key Features?
📚 Comprehensive Documentation: Access documentation that provide a deep dive into our APIs, ensuring you have everything you need to get started and excel with your integration.
🚀 Interactive API Explorer: Experiment with our APIs in real time using our interactive API explorer, making the integration process smooth and intuitive.
🔌 Easy integration: Integrate directly onto the Onecta ecosystem with your own units to develop or test your integration. No special hardware required!
🔑 Rate Limitation: To continue offering the Onecta API for free to all our customers a default rate limitation will be implemented.
💼 B2B Business Case Validation: Explore hassle free if your companies business case works together with the Daikin APIs. Get in contact with us when you want to become a partner.
🚧 What's Next?
This is just the beginning! We're committing to expand and enhance our Developer Portal, with new features and resources in the future.
Your feedback and suggestions will be invaluable as we evolve the portal to meet the needs of our customers.
🔧 What changes can already be prepared from your application?
Make your current application compatible with the upcoming rate-limitation of 150 calls/day. This will allow everyone to query at least every 15 minutes for temperature changes in their home of all their devices. Temperature variation in the home is often not so fast that a faster update rate is required.
🌟 Ready to Get Started?
We're targeting beginning 2024 for the first access to the Daikin Europe Developer Portal. With later in Q1-2024 the release of self service within the developer portal.
Get ready to innovate, build, and make a lasting impact with our Developer Portal. We can't wait to see the incredible solutions you'll create!
Stay tuned for more !
Daikin Europe
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