How does Looper work on GCE-3 #2
Comments
So they are in the GCE firmware. and also in G5n |
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This is processed wireshark for Loopertron FX LP-MONO. I moved Time, Undo, Stop and Volume. |
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So I am sure you already knew this but searching for "5A 44 4C 46 78" in firmware (ZDLFx) - interesting it isnt ZD2FX - seems to find more FX including the "missing ones". I have since found names like (from one sourceee): I suspect the _NNN is the version number. So LP-MONO2 v 1.00 but darned if I can extract it cleanly from firmware with either Barsik's or Mungewell's toolchain. So next I looked for that binary pattern in the firmware Then attempt to extract some basic meaning (I use cygwin on PC cos Unix is so my more powerful than DoS) Interesting .. so the looper isnt in that list. It does confirm the Groups used in catalog. |
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OK someone has a sense of humour in design of the G5n firmware at least - or my Autistic mind is seeing patterns that arent there.
Made me laugh - hope it's not just me seeing the ASCII art. Still doesnt help me (yet) to see the looper but there are other patterns available - I guess FAT and other checksums? |
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OK so examining the ZDL, the Type is the 4 bytes (32 bits) read backwards from name. Although it seems 28 bits are active - except maybe for these Loopers the top 4 bits indicate they are machine specific? Check out this image of the byte dump and see how we have this referenced in a patch but the ZDL was not in the FLST_SQL.ZDT. Curious. |
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Reposting here based on observations I made on another site. Ok so I made more progress with the G5n. Will revert back to G3n later - just got to unbox it! Anyhow @mungewell would be great if we can read the higher bits of FXID/GID from patch. I am not sure (yet) if the FS1-4 return any midi. But for sure one an turn these FX on/off in slot - you can only have on type of looper at a time. If you add another then it "works" and the older one show the ! triangle. For mono variants P1 - N works. ExampleAnd now we have LP-ST2 in slot 1 & 2.For these double slots P5 - 8 control FX params that are 1 - 4 in the single slot version. For example P5's set to 10 = which is a time of 10. FX 1 6 0 turns UNDO off If I look at midi packet in cmidiin so it seems to send this extra sysex sentence. |
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Also I found, when investigating ZDLs, that if you extract from a firmware file you need to follow Barsik's tips - max 4096 in a block with first 6 bytes as 3 shorts. I have examples of using this on the site. |
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Looking at those ZD2, they are all very small and declare themselves as 'Dummy's... First though is perhaps they are just mechanism to receive Midi for the remote control of the inbuilt Looper/Rhythm functions. |
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I can try to zip the whole directory and drop box it somewhere. For sure I
got the images our of it, the FXID and GID - not sure the parameters are
right. For my purposes I need to be able to insert the FX slots and control
parameters. I am not trying to reverse out the assembler.
I will make some time tomorrow to compare some known ZD2s with their
extracted counterparts.
…On Thu, 11 Nov 2021, 22:25 mungewell, ***@***.***> wrote:
Looking at those ZD2, they are all very small and declare themselves as
'Dummy's...
$ grep Dll *.sym
LP-MONO2_100.zd2.code.sym: 26: 00000000 0 FUNC GLOBAL PROTECTED 4 Dll_Dummy
LP-MONO2_100.zd2.code.sym: 5: 00000000 0 FUNC GLOBAL PROTECTED 4 Dll_Dummy
LP-MONO_100.zd2.code.sym: 26: 00000000 0 FUNC GLOBAL PROTECTED 4 Dll_Dummy
LP-MONO_100.zd2.code.sym: 5: 00000000 0 FUNC GLOBAL PROTECTED 4 Dll_Dummy
LP-ST2_100.zd2.code.sym: 26: 00000000 0 FUNC GLOBAL PROTECTED 4 Dll_Dummy
LP-ST2_100.zd2.code.sym: 5: 00000000 0 FUNC GLOBAL PROTECTED 4 Dll_Dummy
LP-ST_100.zd2.code.sym: 26: 00000000 0 FUNC GLOBAL PROTECTED 4 Dll_Dummy
LP-ST_100.zd2.code.sym: 5: 00000000 0 FUNC GLOBAL PROTECTED 4 Dll_Dummy
RHYTHM_100.zd2.code.sym: 26: 00000000 0 FUNC GLOBAL PROTECTED 4 Dll_Dummy
RHYTHM_100.zd2.code.sym: 5: 00000000 0 FUNC GLOBAL PROTECTED 4 Dll_Dummy
First though is perhaps they are just mechanism to receive Midi for the
remote control of the inbuilt Looper/Rhythm functions.
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I haven't gone down the disassembly route yet (would need to find the appropriate software), this is just using |
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I see what you mean - ok well I will use my ill-gotten dummy ZD2s for the FXID/GID BMP, cache them and create the JSON parameters myself - they seem to be empty by default. Odd why they even exist. |
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OK so I think the FS1 - 4 sends FS1: b0 00 00 b0 20 1f c0 00 OK for sure it does BUT not sure if there is context here. well f0 52 00 6e 64 03 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 f7 seems to retrigger the rhythm. |
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so on physical machine "STOP" is pressing relevant FS twice in quick succession. lets move the looper further up the slot well that triggers some nasty sysex followed by a patch dump And now the looper is controlled by so looper/rhythm position is related to the 8th byte (index 7)? |
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OK so I want back to MidiOx this morning. What i then tried was "ok what if I press the FS when I am in Memory mode -so I am looking at the FX window and params. Well I can cheat the looper off. Not ideal but well I will take it until we can work out what's really happening. So essentially FS1-4 is an on-off with the normal commands we know. I didnt know the dummy 2nd slot sends different Sysex. Might be useful for later. If I send the FS1 for mono looper in slot 1 it "resets" the display, pauses, then reports the state. Again sendnig the F0 52 00 6E 64 03 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 F7 essentially reiterates the state. If I manually set rec mode then send F0 52 00 6E 64 03 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F7 - the rec pauses (I guess checking the sysex) then carries on from where it was, Similarly sending F0 52 00 6E 64 03 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F7 pauses the playback .. oh where was I .. carries on. However, sending So not exactly sure how this unit starts the looper. likely the MIDI is an echo to outside world "I did it". |
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slight aside (it's my thing) but as I was watching tonelib and then Zoom Guitar Lab look at G5n It took me a while to realize it now loves @mungewell 's injections therapy :-)
so my GUI, using modified zoom-zt2 techniques (specifically 29 - 32 bit ID) shows the Rhythm and 12 string guitar FX. I started to monitor the Pcap coming out of a G5n controlled via GuitarLab,. So there seems to be a set of commands required. BUT great news that Zoom Guitar Lab does seems to allow the G5n to be modified with Zoom ZT2 and will display the FX - it certainly never used to reliably work this way! Maybe I was not sending the full 29/32 bit ID? |
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ok so I tried to add on "sentences" we know something about. so FX 11 is the slot 11 (recall 0b -> 0a in the sysex) Going to check last observation. |
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Ok I moved the looper to slot 5. |
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OK another day, another dollar .. success for Rhythm at least! Turn on Editor Mode SEND: f052006e6403000a010300000000f7 SEND: f052006e6403000a050100000000f7 IE Prime system On/off OK that's end of lunch break - back later with more checking!!! |
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works. Checking in to G5n folder. |
That's awesome investigation. Just to clarify, is this the 'stock' Rhythm (already in G5n FW), or did you modify/upload the Also note that when we're talking about looper, it can be pre or post FX chain. |
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Also... |
So I am still working on the looper -but the rhythm came from observation of G5n with GuitarLab (which now supports your injections) and Tonelib. I made a video here https://youtu.be/YI09xRolcIY I use the special rhythm 100 zd2 to get the FXID/GID and BMP. It doesnt help with parameters. I will try to work on the looper later in the week - I am close. There is one and only one tempo by the looks of it. So I use your set tempo to set it -the video shows it, the patterns and the volume working. I am wondering if we also found "how many FX" and if hence the 7 for B1X is inc looper and rhythm. I wonder what slot they live at, if at all. |
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I tried to remote control the Rhythm on the GCE-3 (as G5n) with midi but was unable. Did you have success with these command on the GCE-3? GuitarLab could control it. I also noted that the 'RHYMTH_100.ZD2' effect does not seem to be loaded to the pedal... |
Don't know why BMP shows as zero, GL has real value. |
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There is a [edit]: thinking back this is actually how GL shows it on the screen. There is a gap and then BPM and Volume are shown on the right dials. I'll grab a screen shot later. |
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I reread what I had written. Invariably at the time it makes sense to me - and my over elaboration is my "hint" codes so later I can reload the context. I don't do crisp - but at the same time it means I can eventually work out what I meant :-) So here I said: 00000359 And now we have LP-ST2 in slot 1 & 2.For these double slots P5 - 8 control FX params that are 1 - 4 in the single slot version. For example
FX 1 6 0 turns UNDO off So this shows we knew the Parameters that control stuff. Yes I believe I was able to control the rhythm on/off, pattern, bpm on G5n and GCE-3 emulating G5n or G3n. Not able to do this on a G1XFour type - I still think they might be FX8 and 9 (recall a G1XFour can support up to 7 FX in some circumstances but in 5 slots). Back to the ZD2s. You helped me to find they were essentially dummy right? And I sent you a PM with alternative sources right? Ping me direct if you lost that link - not sharing it publicly. For the rhythm the sequence to control is is tied to the slot it is in - makes sense. I don't think I checked in the final version - as ever the slots -> FXn needs to be derived based on ( fx[i].slotwidth, ...). In the above sysex you can see it changing depending on where the rhythm is located. I will get some time to play early June. Then I can write it up on the Wiki. The looper is the one that hampers me. I can see I sent FS buttons too to stop the thing. But I also recall replaying Tonelib commands to a real G5n wasn't working. And Tonib doesn't want to work with GCE-3 ... I have tried writing to them to show how it could be supported. No interest from their side. |
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hi @mungewell Sending |
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I can confirm that the following works with GCE3, but only with the 2screen loopers. It's status is NOT reflected in the decoded screens, on GuitarLab the screen was 'REC', 'PLAY', etc in big letters. |
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From the GuitarLab it is possible to trigger the looper.
Stand alone - not found it yet.
OBSERVATIONS
I found some patches do have Looper's in them. They have crazy GID.
Also, there does not appear to be any ZD2 related to these "FX" in the FLST_SEQ.ZDT.
I check with Mungewell's and Barsik's programs.
You can see attached image.
And also included is odd names around the ZDT above that are not part of the dump.
Needs some kinky extraction to get it.
LIST OF IDs - 28 bit variant
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