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    <minor-heading id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.1" nospeaker="true" time="09:30:00" url="">Prelude</minor-heading>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.2" nospeaker="true" time="09:30:00" ><p>Chuaigh an Leas-Cheann Comhairle i gceannas ar 9.30 a.m.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.3" nospeaker="true" time="09:30:00" ><p>Prayer.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.4" nospeaker="true" time="09:30:00" ><p>Paidir.</p></speech>
    <major-heading id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.6" nospeaker="true" time="09:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200003#A00200">Ceisteanna - Questions - Priority Questions</major-heading>
    <minor-heading id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.7" nospeaker="true" time="09:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200003#A00300">Preschool Services</minor-heading>
    <ques id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.8.q" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1065" speakername="Robert Troy" time="09:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200003#A00400"><p><i>1.</i> To ask the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs why there has been a delay in the publication of inspection and quality regulations for preschools; when these will be published; and if all registrations of preschool providers will be completed within the statutory three-year timeframe. <b>[42947/15]</b></p></ques>
    <reply id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.9.r" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1065" speakername="Robert Troy" time="09:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200003#A00500"><p>The Minister will remember that back in May 2013, the whole island was shocked at the revelations in the "Prime Time" programme, Breach of Trust, an expos&eacute; of awful practices which had been going on in some early year settings.  In light of that, the then Minister for Children and Youth Affairs promised a comprehensive review and a speeding up of the publication of revised regulations for child care standards.  Given the fact we are now two and a half years on from that, can the Minister say when these will be published?  Does the Minister believe we will be able to complete the re-registration process in all our preschool services within the three-year timeframe stipulated at the time?</p></reply>
    <reply id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.10.r" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/952" speakername="James Reilly" time="09:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200003#A00600"><p>In order to provide for the implementation of the legislative changes to the Child Care Act 1991, which were enacted through the Child and Family Agency Act 2013, it was necessary to carry out a root and branch re-examination of the 2006 child care regulations, including a restructuring of the regulations in line with the latest drafting practices.  This exercise has proven to be more time consuming than originally envisaged and my Department is continuing to work closely with the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel to finalise the text of the new regulations.  I hope to be in a position to publish the new regulations shortly.</p>  <p>  The legislative changes to the Child Care Act include the requirement that every preschool service be registered with the Child and Family Agency before being permitted to operate.  Every preschool service that was notified to the Health Service Executive prior to the commencement of the Child and Family Agency Act was deemed to be registered for a period of three years.  This requirement has been in place since the Act was commenced in January 2014 and does not require regulations to underpin it.  The legislation requires that every preschool service that was deemed registered under the terms of the Act must be re-registered by 1 January 2017.  The Department is working with the agency to ensure that this task will be completed within the required timeframe.</p>  <p>  I secured additional funding of &euro;1.1 million in budget 2016 to support the early years inspectorate in the development of its service.  This funding will be used by the agency to recruit 17 additional staff, including additional inspectors and a registration manager who will run a dedicated registration office where all the administrative tasks associated with registration will be carried out.</p>  <p>  The Deputy may wish to note that the early years inspectorate has inspected 1,659 services so far this year, an increase of 68% on the same period in 2014.</p></reply>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.11" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1065" speakername="Robert Troy" time="09:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200004#B00100"><p>Despite the ongoing duplication of inspection systems in early years settings, it is questionable whether the procedure is robust enough to identify services that pose a risk to the health and welfare of children.  There are massive gaps in oversight across many regions.  That is why the Minister's predecessor, supported by all sides of the House, acknowledged the need for the publication of the new regulations.  What is the reason for the delay?  We are constantly told we have a new fully fledged Department with its Minister sitting at the Cabinet table.  Given that there is a full Department in operation, one would imagine regulations as important as these would have been published without delay.  They are required urgently.</p>  <p>  The Minister rightly referred to the passage of the legislation in January 2014.  It means that 4,500 early years services must be re-registered by 1 January 2017, despite the fact that this deadline is just one year away.  Two years have elapsed in which not one of the services has applied to re-register.  The Minister may correct me if I am wrong.  If what I say is correct, we are leaving 100% of the work to be done in one third of the time.  Is the Minister confident that it will be completed on time?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.12" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/952" speakername="James Reilly" time="09:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200004#B00200"><p>I accept the Deputy's concern, but I must repeat the point made in my response that "the early years inspectorate has inspected 1,659 services so far this year, an increase of 68% on the same period in 2014."  Therefore, the system is well advanced in terms of inspections.  Inspections have not stopped because the regulations have not been reviewed and the new ones have not been put in place.</p>  <p>  The Deputy's question on the reason for the delay is very fair and I have asked it myself.  The bottom line is that when the Child Care Act was amended, the Department decided to revise the child care regulations to take account of the new requirements in the registration of services and to bring the other regulations up to date.  The 2006 child care regulations, rather than setting out definitive requirements in areas such as staff ratios and space, used the words "adequate" and "suitable".  They were accompanied by an explanatory guide to the requirements that set out recommendations on how service providers should comply.  In fact, the early years inspectorate has measured compliance against these recommendations.</p>  <p>  Regarding delays, the problem has turned out to be much more complex than anticipated.  The matter is with the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel which is drafting the regulations.  It obviously wants to be as careful as possible in the drafting and does not wish to have to revisit the matter any time soon.  It wants to make sure it has them right.  We are acting as a go-between between the drafter in the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel and Tusla, the Child and Family Agency, to marry the two strands together in order that we can have the best outcome for children.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.13" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1065" speakername="Robert Troy" time="09:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200004#B00300"><p>Inspections are being carried out under the old regime.  Is that not true?  If a new service is to open, is must open under the old registration process, despite the fact that it is two and a half years after being promised the new registration process would be complete.  That is worrying, to say the least.  There is duplication of inspection systems.  Does the Minister believe we would be better off if the process was streamlined and there was one comprehensive inspectorate for early years settings?</p>  <p>  The Minister has said he has often asked about the reason for the delay himself.  He is the Minister with authority and responsibility for ensuring the regulations are published.  It is not acceptable, two and a half years on, that we are still awaiting them.  Teething problems should have been well sorted out in the time that has expired.</p>  <p>  With regard to the re-registration process, I asked a specific question on the 4,500 early years services available.  Has any one of them commenced re-registration?  I am told the answer is no.  If that is the case, is the Minister confident that 100% of the 4,500 services will be able to re-register in one third of the time that was allowed?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.14" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/952" speakername="James Reilly" time="09:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200004#B00400"><p>As the Deputy will be aware from the initial answer and the passage of the Child Care Act through this House, every preschool service is required to register with the Child and Family Agency before being permitted to operate.  That is a major change.  Up to now, there was no way of insisting on getting into a preschool setting before opening.  That is a major change and one with which we all agree.</p>  <p>  To return to the issue of the inspectorate, in April this year because of ongoing difficulties with the regulations and their drafting, we appointed a full-time officer to finalise the text.  Many of the agency's requirements had still to be interrogated and explained to the drafter at that point.  Most of these matters have now been resolved satisfactorily, although not without some difficulty.  The Department has submitted its latest response to the Parliamentary Counsel and hopes all queries raised by the drafter have been addressed satisfactorily.</p></speech>
    <minor-heading id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.15" nospeaker="true" time="09:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200004#B00500">Early Childhood Care Education</minor-heading>
    <ques id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.16.q" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/981" speakername="Sandra McLellan" time="09:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200004#B00600"><p><i>2.</i> To ask the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs how he will ensure that preschool places are made available for children who have turned three years of age and whose parents are seeking to enrol them in the early childhood care and education scheme in January or April 2017, given the likelihood that many early years education and care settings will be full with the cohort enrolled in September 2016.  <b>[43043/15]</b></p></ques>
    <reply id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.17.r" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/981" speakername="Sandra McLellan" time="09:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200004#B00700"><p>How will the Minister ensure preschool places are made available for children who have turned three years of age and whose parents are seeking to enrol them in the early childhood care and education scheme in January or April 2017, given the likelihood that many early years education and care settings will be full?</p></reply>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.18" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/952" speakername="James Reilly" time="09:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200004#B00800"><p>The early childhood care and education, ECCE, programme covers children who have reached the age of three years and two months by 1 September of the relevant year.  From September 2016, I am expanding the programme to allow children to enrol in free preschool from the time they are three years of age and remain there until they start primary school.  This extended free preschool provision was first recommended by the expert advisory group on the early years strategy in 2013.  It was also one of a series of recommendations of the recent interdepartmental group on future investment in child care, which I established last January.  The group consulted a wide range of stakeholders, including in the early years sector, during the course of its work.  The result of that work was a very good example of what a coherent document based on wide consultation could achieve.  We now have a clear pathway for future investment in child care.</p>  <p>  Under the extended programme, there will be three opportunities for eligible children to enrol during the preschool year: children who reach the age of three years between April and August will have the opportunity to enrol in September; children who reach the age of three between September and December will have the opportunity to enrol in January and children who reach the age of three between January and March will have the opportunity to enrol in April.  As a result of this extension, the number of children benefiting from the programme is expected to rise from around 67,000 to 127,000 in a given programme year.  For the 2016-17 programme year, it is estimated that 89,500 children will be eligible to enrol in the programme from September 2016, 22,000 from January 2017 and 15,500 from April 2017.</p>  <p>  In order to provide the early years sector with the time it needs to build capacity to meet this increased demand, a decision was taken to introduce the new measure from September 2016.  As the increased demand for the programme is not expected to peak until January and April 2017, this timeframe should allow preschool providers to make infrastructural or service changes that are necessary and put in place extra staff resources to accommodate the additional demand.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.19" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/981" speakername="Sandra McLellan" time="09:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200004#B00900"><p>I thank the Minister for his reply.  The extension of the free preschool year is most welcome.  As part of my outreach work as rapporteur on quality and affordable child care, I met many staff across the sector.  The one issue they raise, although they very much welcome the second free preschool year, concerns the capacity to cope.  Have studies been carried out to identify the gaps where sufficient infrastructure is needed and extra places will be required nationally?</p><p>Will every child be guaranteed a free preschool place for the first and second years?  A second free preschool year has been granted, but questions posed within the child care profession include whether the need for the training of child care workers will be adequately met in such a short period of time and whether it will be able to cope with the extension of the ECCE programme.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.21" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/952" speakername="James Reilly" time="09:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200005#C00200"><p>I am satisfied that there is additional capacity in the early years sector to cope with some of the increased demand.  The annual survey of early years services which was conducted in December 2014 estimated that there were more than 24,000 vacancies in early years services across the country, with almost 13,000 of these vacancies in sessional services.  I am also aware that every year a significant number of new preschool providers apply to participate in the programme and the increased demand for and the additional investment in free preschool provision should encourage a greater number of applicants.  The restoration of capitation rates to pre-2012 levels from September 2016 should also encourage a greater number of new applicants and encourage existing preschool providers to expand.  I am clear that more capacity will be required and that January and April enrolments may pose a challenge.  Officials in the Department are committed to assisting with these challenges.  They are working closely with the city and county child care committees and the voluntary child care organisations on a range of measures which will assist preschool providers to meet increased demand for free preschool provision, particularly from January and April 2017.  Further information on these measures will be available shortly.  A mapping exercise has started in the Department to identify where the gaps might be.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.22" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/981" speakername="Sandra McLellan" time="09:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200005#C00300"><p>I thank the Minister for his reply and I am delighted to hear a mapping exercise has commenced.  As I am sure the Minister is aware, professionalisation and ensuring a certain standard of care in the child care sector are issues.  We have some of the most fantastic child care workers in Europe and they should be treated as such.  What are the Minister's views on professionalisation within the sector and the security offered by a decent wage to rewards people for their time spent studying hard while preparing to become professional child care workers?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.23" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/952" speakername="James Reilly" time="09:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200005#C00400"><p>I thank the Deputy for her question because it has now been well proved nationally and internationally that early childhood care and education has a beneficial effect for children, particularly those from disadvantaged backgrounds.  This is the case if it is of high quality; if it is of poor quality, it can be detrimental.  Quality is very much the focus of the Department and interdepartmental group which engages with parents and service providers.  What we want is affordable and accessible quality early child care.  We have put in place a number of incentives, including another &euro;1.5 million for a learner fund to encourage people to upskill.  This will take a period of time, but the moneys we have available should allow between 900 and 1,000 people to upskill each year.  Wages and terms and conditions are matters for providers and their employees.</p></speech>
    <minor-heading id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.24" nospeaker="true" time="09:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200005#C00450">Rights of the Child</minor-heading>
    <ques id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.25.q" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1050" speakername="Tom Fleming" time="09:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200005#C00500"><p><i>3.</i> To ask the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs the child-related issues he will address prior to the examination on 14 January 2016 by the United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child of Ireland's progress in implementing the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child; and if he will make a statement on the matter.  <b>[42774/15]</b></p></ques>
    <reply id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.26.r" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1050" speakername="Tom Fleming" time="09:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200005#C00600"><p>What child-related issues will the Minister address prior to the examination on 14 January 2016 by the United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child of Ireland's progress in implementing the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child?</p></reply>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.27" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/952" speakername="James Reilly" time="09:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200005#C00700"><p>I can inform the Deputy that preparations for Ireland's examination by the United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child on 14 January 2016 are a priority for my Department.  I am actively engaged in these preparations and looking forward to leading Ireland's delegation and engaging positively with the UN committee on developments in Ireland in the observance of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child since the last such examination took place in 2006.  In the meantime, I intend to advance a number of key issues.  In particular, I want to maximise the progress I can make on a number of legislative measures that are nearing completion.  Parliamentary time is already scheduled to complete all Stages of the Child Care (Amendment) Bill in December to provide for a statutory right to an aftercare plan.  The Bill has passed Second Stage in the House and we will take Committee and Report Stages tomorrow.  </p><p>Following completion of all Stages of the Children First Bill, I want to progress towards commencement of particular sections of the Bill at the earliest opportunity.  In particular, I want to consider the provisions that remove the common law defence of reasonable chastisement in cases of corporal punishment.  </p><p>I have a received the report from the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Health and Children on its pre-legislative scrutiny of the general scheme and heads of the Adoption (Information and Tracing) Bill 2015.  I want to examine the report in detail and use it to inform the draft Bill.  </p><p>I hope to finalise and sign the early years (pre-school) regulations and my Department is working closely with the Office of Parliamentary Counsel in this regard.  </p><p>I intend to consult stakeholders on matters relating to the Gender Recognition Act, while regulations are also being prepared on entries in the register of inter-country adoptions.</p><p>The Deputy will be aware that a considerable number of child-related issues are being addressed, not only by the Department but also across government, in the context of the national policy framework for children and young people 2014 to 2020, Better Outcomes, Brighter Futures<i>. </i>The framework involves a whole-of-government approach.  My Department is actively leading in the implementation of this ambitious framework.  In this context, we are working in close collaboration with the better outcomes advisory council in the identification and advancement of its work programme.  This will inform consideration of cross-sectoral priorities for 2016 which will be proposed by the high level sponsors group that will meet later this week, on 4 December.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.28" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1050" speakername="Tom Fleming" time="09:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200005#C00800"><p>I certainly welcome the range of issues the Minister intends to address prior to the UN committee meeting and I hope the legislative process will be finalised before then.  I very much welcome what is being done on the issue of corporal punishment.  We are well aware that the State has taken no steps to implement the UN committee's recommendation that there be a comprehensive legal prohibition on corporal punishment.  The common law defence of reasonable chastisement to a charge of assault remains in place.  It is incredible that corporal punishment was banned in schools in 1982 but that it is still acceptable in the home.  It is wide open to several forms of abuse, which is not right and proper in this day and age.  In 2014 Childline received 7,365 calls from children about physical violence, of which 1,500 were about a real and present danger to children.  We need to secure changes in advance of our appearance before the UN committee in January.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.29" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/952" speakername="James Reilly" time="09:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200005#C00900"><p>It was in 1982 that the late John Boland, a predecessor of mine from Dublin North, as Minister for Education, signed the instrument to ban it in schools, although the law did not change until some time afterwards.</p>  <p>  The Revised Estimates Volume for 2016 which is being published today will confirm the significant additional resources secured in budget 2016 to deal with child related issues.  In my Department these include an additional &euro;85 million for a child care package and &euro;38 million in additional funding for Tusla to place it on a firm financial footing and enable it to meet its obligations to children.  Furthermore, through a Supplementary Estimate which will be considered by the D&aacute;il select sub-committee tomorrow, 3 December, we aim to secure further moneys to allow Tusla to address legacy issues and over-runs from this year.</p>  <p>  In accordance with the Child and Family Agency Act 2013, I hope to receive Tusla's draft business plan for 2016.  I have recently issued my performance statement to Tusla outlining the areas I would like to see addressed, with particular attention on the measures for which additional financial resources have been secured.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.30" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1050" speakername="Tom Fleming" time="09:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200006#D00100"><p>There is one area on which we are still falling down and where there is huge neglect regarding children and I hope we can do something about it in the short to medium term.  This is the situation where children are continuing to experience difficulties in accessing primary and community health services, as the Minister is aware.  There is a major problem with regard to waiting times for essential services for children, including orthodontics, occupational and speech and language therapy, autism services and community psychological services.  There are gaps and huge delays in the provision of these services for children.  They often require a multidisciplinary approach, involving a number of specialised services.  We will have to change our approach to the need for all the aforementioned services and to develop a proper community and primary care service and deliver in a timely fashion.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.31" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/952" speakername="James Reilly" time="09:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200006#D00200"><p>I am not the Minister for Health but I know from talking to him and from being at Cabinet meetings that there are considerable additional funds for health this year.  In fairness to this Government, we have brought in free GP care for all children under six and made a commitment to bring it in for all children under 12.  That is to be welcomed.  In respect of primary care, when I last checked, we were still opening a new primary care centre at a rate of one per month, which is quite an achievement given the recession we have just been through.</p>  <p>  I agree with the Deputy that most care should be given in primary care facilities and that we need community facilities for children in particular.  I also agree that we need early intervention, particularly when it comes to speech and language therapy and behaviour therapy, to pick up problems early and to get the best outcomes for our children.  What we all desire for our children is that they be afforded the opportunity to realise their full potential, whatever that potential might be.  That is all any parent asks, that their child has the best chance in life.</p>  <p>  This Government has done a great deal of work in this regard, with the first full-time Minister, a new Department of Children and Youth Affairs, the children's referendum, the new child care package we have put in place and the removal of the defence of reasonable chastisement.  We have made a great deal of progress during a very difficult period.  For the first time, the Government and the people have acknowledged in a real way that the dark past of which we have all become aware in respect of how our children were treated has come to an end and now we seek to continue to improve their opportunities because when we improve their opportunities, we improve our society as a whole.</p></speech>
    <minor-heading id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.32" nospeaker="true" time="09:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200006#D00300">Preschool Services</minor-heading>
    <ques id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.33.q" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1065" speakername="Robert Troy" time="09:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200006#D00400"><p><i>4.</i> To ask the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs the reviews he has taken of the capacity and sustainability of the preschool and early education sector to provide for the extension of the early childhood care and education scheme; and if he will make a statement on the matter. <b>[42684/15]</b></p></ques>
    <reply id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.34.r" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1065" speakername="Robert Troy" time="09:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200006#D00500"><p>Given that those working in the sector unanimously agreed the sector was not ready for the expansion of the early childhood care and education, ECCE, programme until capacity and sustainability had improved, could the Minister outline what reviews of the capacity and sustainability of the sector his Department carried out before introducing the extension of this scheme in the most recent budget?</p></reply>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.35" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/952" speakername="James Reilly" time="09:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200006#D00600"><p>At present, the ECCE programme covers children who have reached the age of three years and two months by 1 September of the relevant year.  From September 2016, I am expanding this programme to allow children enrol in free preschool from the time they are three years of age and to remain there until they start primary school.  That is very important because parents in some instances have felt under pressure to send their children to school earlier than they would otherwise like because of financial considerations.  This is a major change to the benefit of children and parents.  This extended free preschool provision was first recommended by the expert advisory group on the early years strategy in 2013.  It was also one of a series of recommendations of the recent interdepartmental group on future investment in child care, which I established in January last.  The group consulted widely with a range of stakeholders, including the early years sector and parents, during the course of its work.</p>  <p>  Under this extended programme, there will be three opportunities for eligible children to enrol during the preschool year: children who reach the age of three between April and August will have the opportunity to enrol in September; children who reach the age of three between September and December will have the opportunity to enrol in January; and children who reach the age of three between January and March will have the opportunity to enrol in April.  As a result of this extension, the number of children benefitting from the programme is expected to rise from around 67,000 to 127,000 in a given programme year.  For the 2016-17 programme year, it is estimated that 89,500 children will be eligible to enrol in the programme from September 2016, with another 22,000 from January 2017 and a further 15,500 from April 2017.</p>  <p>  In order to provide the early years sector with the time to build capacity to meet this increased demand, a decision was taken to introduce this new measure from September 2016.  As the increased demand for the programme is not expected to peak until January and April 2017, this timeframe should allow preschool providers to make any necessary infrastructural or service changes and to put in place extra staff resources to accommodate the additional demand. </p>  <p>  I am satisfied that there is already additional capacity in the early years sector to cope with some of the increased demand.  Indeed, the Annual Survey of Early Years Services, which was conducted in December 2014, estimates that there are more than 24,000 vacancies in early years services across the country, with almost 13,000 of these vacancies in sessional services.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.36" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1065" speakername="Robert Troy" time="09:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200006#D00700"><p>Can the Minister clarify exactly how many spaces are available at present?  In a reply to a parliamentary question I asked a few months ago, he said approximately 10,000 spaces were available.  Assuming that, as Pobal found in a survey it carried out, approximately 6,245 of those places are available in rural areas, with 3,245 available in urban areas, and given that the expansion of the community child care subvention scheme, which will create 13,000 places, was announced in this budget, how are we going to have the capacity in the sector?  In an answer to a previous question, the Minister talked about commencing a mapping process now.  Surely that should have been done before the extension to the scheme was announced.  Does the Minister know where there is capacity in the services throughout the country at the moment?  I do not think he does.</p>  <p>  He talks about phasing it in over a period, with an extra 22,000 in September 2016 and a further 22,000 in January 2017 but what is going to be there to help services build the capacity?  Is the Minister going to introduce a capital grant scheme so they can build on additional space if required?  We have already extended the timeframe to enable people to upgrade their qualifications to September 2016 because we do not have the required number at present.  While everyone will concur that a second free preschool year is needed and welcome, I have grave reservations that this was announced as part of an election ploy without due consideration for the capacity of the sector to develop.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.37" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/952" speakername="James Reilly" time="09:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200006#D00800"><p>I am aware that every year a significant number of new preschool providers apply to participate in this programme.  This increased demand for, and additional investment in, free preschool provision should encourage a greater numbers of applicants.  I am clear that more capacity will be required; we are all agreed on that.  Officials in my Department have identified a number of challenges that preschool providers who wish to expand may face, including issues of sustainability.  They are working closely with the city and county child care committees and the voluntary child care organisations to identify measures to address such challenges.</p><p>The restoration of capitation rates to pre-2012 levels from September 2016 which I recently announced is one such measure.  The increase which will bring capitation rates to as much as &euro;2,850 per year for each eligible child is a guaranteed source of income and a major support for preschool providers.  This was particularly evident in the difficult economic climate that prevailed in recent years when many parents would not have been in a position to avail of preschool services for their children.  Additional capitation payments for preschool providers recently announced as part of the suite of Government-funded supports for children with a disability in accessing the ECCE programme will not only ensure children with a disability can meaningfully participate in and reap the benefits of free preschool education but will also assist in addressing issues of sustainability for preschool providers.  Budget 2016 also includes further measures to address this issue, including investment in training and education, as well as capital funding.  I will announce further details of these measures shortly.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.39" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1065" speakername="Robert Troy" time="10:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200007#E00200"><p>The Minister has not confirmed whether 10,000 or 20,000 spaces are available.  Perhaps he might do so.  Even if the number is 20,000 which would be at the higher end of his expectations, he is talking about an additional 22,500 spaces in the free preschool year in 2016 and a further 13,000 under the community child care subvention scheme.  That gives a total of 35,500 which represents a requirement for 15,000 more spaces than those available.  What review of capacity and the sustainability of the sector did the Minister undertake prior to the announcement?  He talks about being aware of capacity issues, but what was done prior to the announcement in order that we would know where exactly the gaps were and in what geographical areas there were gaps?</p>  <p>  The Minister has referred to restoring capitation rates to pre-2012 levels.  The Government reduced the rates a number of years ago, but the level of restoration is still not adequate.  Is the Minister aware of the huge financial pressures on communities and small private operators?  He is restoring capitation rates, but under the contract with the State, the provider is meant to pay staff costs for 42 weeks of the year, yet the State is only paying for 38 weeks.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.40" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1040" speakername="Michael Kitt" time="10:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200007#E00300"><p>I have to call the Minister to reply.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.41" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1065" speakername="Robert Troy" time="10:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200007#E00400"><p>Restoring capitation rates is not good enough.  The previous Government invested &euro;500 million in the previous decade to ensure there would be sufficient spaces available in the sector.  Will the Minister introduce capital funding to ensure we will have sufficient capacity in the sector?  It is a welcome announcement, but I do not think it has been well thought out.  Parents will face the real issue in September 2016 long after the general election.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.42" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1040" speakername="Michael Kitt" time="10:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200007#E00500"><p>This is Question Time and I want to try to keep to the time limits.  The Minister and all other Members should, please, watch the clock.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.43" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/952" speakername="James Reilly" time="10:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200007#E00600"><p>I will respond to the Deputy because his assertions are outrageous.  We put an expert interdepartmental group together across virtually all Departments.  We had consultations with people involved in the sector, as well as with parents.  We now have an extremely well thought out and considered plan for future investment in child care.  It will provide parents with affordable and accessible child care services, as well as quality care for children.  As money becomes available and the economy recovers from the fiasco Fianna F&aacute;il left behind, we will continue to invest in this sector.  We will do so prudently as money becomes available and in a very clear fashion.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.44" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1065" speakername="Robert Troy" time="10:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200007#E00700"><p>Will the Minister confirm how many spaces are available?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.45" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/952" speakername="James Reilly" time="10:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200007#E00800"><p>Nobody interrupted the Deputy.  As the truth sometimes hurts, he should just listen to the facts.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.46" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1065" speakername="Robert Troy" time="10:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200007#E01100"><p>Some 35,000 spaces will be needed in September 2016.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.47" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1040" speakername="Michael Kitt" time="10:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200007#E01200"><p>Please, Deputy.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.48" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1065" speakername="Robert Troy" time="10:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200007#E01300"><p>The Minister is not answering the question.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.49" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/952" speakername="James Reilly" time="10:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200007#E01400"><p>I have made it very clear from where the information comes.  The results of a capacity study came through in December 2014 and the Deputy knows what they are.  As I have told him, there are 24,000 vacancies in early years services across the country, of which almost 13,000 are in sectional services.  The Deputy also alluded to a mapping process.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.50" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1065" speakername="Robert Troy" time="10:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200007#E01500"><p>The spaces will be needed next September.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.51" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1040" speakername="Michael Kitt" time="10:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200007#E01600"><p>May we have order, please?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.52" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/952" speakername="James Reilly" time="10:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200007#E01700"><p>It is very hard to talk if the Deputy continues to interrupt.  If he does not want to hear the information, that is fine.  He can simply ask the question in order that he can get his name in the local newspaper, the <i>Longford Leader</i>or whatever it is.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.53" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1065" speakername="Robert Troy" time="10:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200007#E01800"><p>The Minister is fond of going to the newspapers.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.54" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/952" speakername="James Reilly" time="10:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200007#E01900"><p>The bottom line is that there is additional capacity available.  Even the Deputy would acknowledge that this is dynamic.  Where the opportunity presents, people are happy to become involved in this business.  There are new people joining all the time.  In fact, one of the sector's major concerns was that there would be no displacement of existing services.  At one point it was suggested we close off applications to join the new service, but clearly we are not going to do that.  We have competition law which will dictate the issue.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.55" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1040" speakername="Michael Kitt" time="10:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200007#E02000"><p>I am sorry, but we have to move on to the next question.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.56" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/952" speakername="James Reilly" time="10:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200007#E02100"><p>We also have planning laws.  We will support the sector in this regard.  In the area of special needs we brought forward a seven-point plan in conjunction with the Department of Health and the Department of Education and Skills.  There will be an inclusion co-ordinator in each service and every child attending a preschool facility will receive an extra &euro;2 per week in capitation, whether he or she has special needs or whether there is a special needs co-ordinator in the preschool setting.  The idea is to encourage inclusion and enable people to feel confident and competent to include children with special needs and-or disabilities.</p></speech>
    <minor-heading id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.57" nospeaker="true" time="10:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200007#E02150">Child Poverty</minor-heading>
    <ques id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.58.q" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1050" speakername="Tom Fleming" time="10:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200007#E02250"><p><i>5.</i> To ask the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs if he is undertaking work with the Department of Social Protection and other relevant Departments to address the unacceptably high rate of child poverty <b>[42775/15]</b></p></ques>
    <reply id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.59.r" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/952" speakername="James Reilly" time="10:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200007#E02500"><p>The Department of Social Protection has the lead role in co-ordinating Government strategies on child poverty and is the sponsor of outcome 4 of Better Outcomes, Brighter Futures - economic security and opportunity.  In this context, the Department has identified child poverty as a cross-sectoral priority action.  It has also lead responsibility for the national action plan for social inclusion.</p>  <p>  To assist in addressing the issue of child poverty, the advisory council for Better Outcomes, Brighter Futures which brings together key members of the community and voluntary sectors who work with and for children and young people and the Department of Social Protection have co-convened a sub-group with officials from relevant Departments and the relevant stakeholder to progress solutions to the problem of child poverty.  The group held its first meeting in September and two more are anticipated in the near future.</p>  <p>  My Department, through its leadership of the implementation of Better Outcomes, Brighter Futures and in participating in the sub-group, is actively involved with the Department of Social Protection in supporting this multidimensional approach to child poverty.  Towards this end, my Department has a number of areas of focus that support its response to child poverty.  It is also leading the implementation of the area-based childhood programme 2013 to 2017, in consultation with an interdepartmental project team, which aims to  improve outcomes for children and young people and the existing service by drawing on best international practice to break the cycle of child poverty where it is most deeply entrenched.</p>  <p>  As part of my Department's response, Tusla, the Child and Family Agency, is also responsible for the delivery of a range of services, focusing on the welfare of and protection and support for children, young people and their families, which are key to supporting outcomes which assist in actively mitigating the impact of child poverty.</p></reply>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.60" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1050" speakername="Tom Fleming" time="10:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200007#E02600"><p>In a recent on-line behaviour and attitudes survey involving 408 teachers 41% said the number of children going to school hungry had increased since this time last year.  We are all aware of the fact that this deficit in society is increasing rapidly.  It is estimated that in the region of 140,000 children attend school hungry and that they are hungry at home also.</p>  <p>  A number of schools cannot serve pupils in need owing to a lack of facilities and personnel to assist with the school breakfast programme.</p><p>We will have to redouble our efforts through the Minister's Department, the Department of Education and Skills and the Department of Social Protection.</p> <p> There are a lot of statistics which show the detrimental effect.  The EU survey on income and living conditions 2014 shows that in Ireland, while the consistent poverty rate fell slightly from 11.7% in 2013 to 11.2% in 2014, one-parent families had the highest consistent poverty rate, at 22.1%.  We have a lot of work to do to rectify the position.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.62" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/952" speakername="James Reilly" time="10:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200008#F00200"><p>I mentioned a number of programmes in my response, one of which is the area-based childhood, ABC, programme.  This programme is a prevention and early intervention initiative consisting of committed funding for an area-based approach to improving outcomes for children, young people and families and thereby contributing to addressing intergenerational child poverty.  The ABC programme builds on the work of the prevention and early intervention programme from 2007 to 2013.</p>  <p>  The ABC programme involves joint investment by the Department of Children and Youth Affairs and Atlantic Philanthropies of &euro;29.7 million in evidence-informed interventions to improve outcomes for children.  The ABC programme is time bound and the co-funding arrangement between the Government and Atlantic Philanthropies remains in place until 2017.  There are 13 sites in the ABC programme, all of which are now operational.  The focus of this is to learn from these programmes and then inform the rest of the system of that learning and ensure that it is reflected in our services throughout the country.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.63" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1050" speakername="Tom Fleming" time="10:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200008#F00300"><p>Child poverty can have a significant effect and long-term consequences on growing children, particularly on their concentration in school.  For instance, it affects their physical and mental health.  Their future job opportunities are also being significantly affected.</p>  <p>  Child poverty is one of the most critical issues facing children today.  The statistics are stark.  For example, one in three children does not have warm clothes, eat a nutritious meal every day or have an adequately warm home.  The austerity measures are really hitting at this stage.  There must be a concerted effort by all the relevant Departments.  We need to address this as a matter of urgency.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.64" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/952" speakername="James Reilly" time="10:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200008#F00400"><p>The Deputy has made many valid points.  Much of this comes from outside my Department but, nonetheless, I am concerned.  However, I am pleased that Government has created more than 130,000 new jobs and unemployment has fallen below 9% for the first time since 2008.  We all acknowledge that the best way out of poverty is a job and to have financial independence and that is why many of the provisions we have put in place are to address this.</p>  <p>  From my Department's point of view, it is about increasing the employability chances for children when they become adults to break that intergenerational poverty trap and that starts really early in life.  It now starts in the ECCE programme at three years of age, so that children go to school with the same reading skills as other children because, perhaps through disadvantage, they did not get that opportunity.</p>  <p>  An important aspect of getting people back to work, or enabling people to go back to work, is child care, where we are putting an initiative in place.  In that initiative, which will be developed this year, we will replace the community child care subvention, CCS, programme and the four training and employment child care, TEC, programme with an entirely new scheme that will be simple and easily accessible for parents.  Everybody has agreed that the most vulnerable should be looked after first.  Therefore, the income threshold will start at a particular point and increase as more funding becomes available.  More and more people, therefore, will not encounter that barrier to going to work because of the cost of child care.  From the children's point of view, if they get a good start in early life, their ability to finish education will improve.  The school completion programmes is to support that and the ABC programme allows them a better chance of a job later in life.</p></speech>
    <major-heading id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.65" nospeaker="true" time="10:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200008#F00425">Other Questions</major-heading>
    <minor-heading id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.66" nospeaker="true" time="10:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200008#F00450">Child and Family Agency Funding</minor-heading>
    <ques id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.67.q" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1110" speakername="Se&aacute;n Kyne" time="10:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200008#F00500"><p><i>6.</i> To ask the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs if, in the context of the &euro;676 million in funding for Tusla, the Child and Family Agency, for 2016, which is a welcome and significant increase, he has received a business plan from the agency; and if the Houses of the Oireachtas will have an opportunity to examine the intended spending arrangements. <b>[42645/15]</b></p></ques>
    <reply id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.68.r" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1110" speakername="Se&aacute;n Kyne" time="10:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200008#F00600"><p>This question asks, in the context of the welcome &euro;676 million in funding for Tusla, whether the Minister has received a business plan from the agency and if the Houses of the Oireachtas will have an opportunity to examine the intended spending commitments.</p></reply>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.69" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/952" speakername="James Reilly" time="10:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200008#F00700"><p>I am pleased to be able to inform the House that significant extra resources have been allocated to Tusla, the Child and Family Agency, for 2016.  The gross funding allocation for Tusla in 2016 is &euro;676 million, representing an increase of &euro;38 million over the 2015 allocation.  This includes &euro;662.4 million in current expenditure and &euro;13.6 million in capital expenditure.</p>  <p>  The overall level of funding that I have provided will significantly strengthen Tusla's base funding level and will give the agency greater capacity to respond to current risk and anticipated demand.</p>  <p>  This level of provision addresses key priorities identified by Tusla in pre-budget discussions.  It will also give rise to a substantial recruitment programme involving up to 400 additional staff in the agency next year.  This increased capital provision will allow for a range of key projects to be initiated and progressed.</p>  <p>  In accordance with the agency's establishing legislation, I have issued a detailed performance statement to inform the preparation of Tusla's business plan for 2016.  This statement sets out the key priorities that I require of Tusla in the coming year.  I have since met the board following receipt and initial consideration by Tusla of the 2016 performance statement.  In accordance with the Child and Family Agency Act 2013, Tusla is required to submit a business plan for 2016 within 30 days of receipt of the performance statement, which issued on 20 November last.</p>  <p>  I will be happy to discuss the content of the performance statement and business plan at my next appearance at the relevant Oireachtas committee.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.70" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1110" speakername="Se&aacute;n Kyne" time="10:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200008#F00800"><p>Gabhaim bu&iacute;ochas leis an Aire as ucht an fhreagra sin agus as ucht an ardaithe mh&oacute;ir de &euro;38 milli&uacute;n sa bhuis&eacute;ad do Tusla don bhliain seo chugainn, agus cuirim f&aacute;ilte roimh sin.  I certainly welcome the increase in funding of &euro;38 million for Tusla this year.  I commend the Minister for that and for bringing the figure up to &euro;676 million.  I also welcome the &euro;19 million provided by Tusla to the organisations which carry out vital work in relation to physical and sexual abuse, &euro;4 million of which is for the Rape Crisis Centre.  In a recent reply to a question, the Minister stated that future planning for domestic violence and sexual violence services will seek to address gaps and avoid duplication.  I suppose my concerns relate to the level of consultation and engagement that is taking place, hopefully, between Tusla and the organisations.  It is particularly important to avoid the problems which arose when Tusla decided to change the system of collecting statistics and information, which is clearly vital for delivering and designing such schemes.  This decision impacted on the Galway Rape Crisis Network, which was previously undertaking this work.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.71" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/952" speakername="James Reilly" time="10:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200008#F00900"><p>Gabhaim bu&iacute;ochas leis an Teachta.  Caithfidh m&eacute; a r&aacute; go mbeidh airgead eile againn n&iacute;os d&eacute;ana&iacute;.  Beidh Meastach&aacute;n Forl&iacute;ontach ann freisin agus beidh a fh&iacute;os agam c&eacute; mh&eacute;ad a bheas i gceist n&iacute;os d&eacute;ana&iacute; inniu n&oacute; b'fh&eacute;idir am&aacute;rach.  I am happy that we have additional moneys to address any legacy issues and I will know the precise figure later today or early tomorrow.</p>  <p>  As the Deputy will be aware, there are many areas that need to be addressed.  One of the big areas has been the issue of unallocated cases.  Tusla undertook an audit to get accurate figures on this because they were being measured in different ways in different parts of the country.</p><p>It has done a very good job in that regard and I complement it.  I asked it to submit a business plan to address the issue, which has been ongoing for decades.  It gave me a three-year plan, which it also priced.  We have given it the moneys in full to address the issue in the coming year.  Three years of additional moneys will have to be in place in order to address the issue.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.73" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1110" speakername="Se&aacute;n Kyne" time="10:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200009#G00200"><p>The Minister touched on the second free preschool year in earlier questions.  What level of consultation and communication is there between the stakeholders, including the child care providers, on this year?  Others touched on concerns regarding capacity.  What level of engagement has been or is planned to be undertaken?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.74" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/952" speakername="James Reilly" time="10:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200009#G00300"><p>My Department is in regular contact with the providers' organisation on this matter.  There was considerable consultation before the plan was executed and announced.  It is an ongoing and dynamic situation.  People and providers will decide where they would like to set up.  Others may decide to expand.  We live in a market economy and competition laws apply.  We would like to support those who are already engaged in providing these services expand but, equally, we will encourage new people to enter the market where services are not currently being provided.  We also must bear in mind that there will be other opportunities as a result of the increased provision for the community child care subvention programme.  There will also be opportunities perhaps to use school facilities after school hours because teachers will not be providing the care.  It will be provided by preschool child care givers who have a specific set of skills.  We want to make it clear in those settings that the child does not think he or she is still at school.  It needs to be a very different experience.</p></speech>
    <minor-heading id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.75" nospeaker="true" time="10:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200009#G00400">Child and Family Agency Services</minor-heading>
    <ques id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.76.q" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1005" speakername="Maureen O'Sullivan" time="10:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200009#G00500"><p><i>7.</i> To ask the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs the supports Tusla has in place for children and parents living in emergency accommodation; if specific supports are needed given the extraordinarily difficult circumstances children in emergency accommodation face in trying to attend school; and if he will make a statement on the matter. <b>[42687/15]</b></p></ques>
    <reply id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.77.r" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1005" speakername="Maureen O'Sullivan" time="10:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200009#G00600"><p>My question relates to children who are living in emergency accommodation and the need to acknowledge that it is difficult for them.  What is Tusla, in particular, doing to support these children?</p></reply>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.78" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/952" speakername="James Reilly" time="10:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200009#G00700"><p>I understand the Deputy is referring to situations where children and their families find themselves living in emergency accommodation.  The primary need is for a family home and responsibility for this lies with local authorities and the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government.  I appreciate, however, that the Deputy is referring to the emotional and practical impact on parents and children when living in emergency accommodation.  A major stress for families is the uncertainty of not knowing when they will have suitable accommodation.  Families also face difficulties in establishing the ordinary routines around meals, play and bedtimes that underpin normal development and a happy family life.  I am keenly aware of the impact on children where their parent is suffering from stress, depression or other emotional problems associated with the traumatic impact of living in emergency accommodation.  Homelessness can only have a negative impact on a child's personal growth, security and education.</p>  <p>  An essential consideration for school-going children is, where possible, to source emergency accommodation that allows regular school attendance.  Research has shown that attending at school can provide a haven of normality for children where there is significant change or crisis occurring in the family.  The main role of Tusla is to provide family support, the same way as it does for families in the general community, by providing guidance and parenting supports through its locally based services.  After school programmes, children's activities and homework clubs are a very practical way of supporting children.  Where Tusla identifies underlying problems, for example, mental health issues, it can refer the family to the appropriate services.  Tusla has regular meetings with Focus Ireland, the Department of Social Protection and Dublin City Council to identify vulnerable families in order to support them as best it can.  Any concerns that reach the threshold requiring a child protection and welfare response will be dealt with through the child protection social work teams in Tusla.  </p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.79" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1005" speakername="Maureen O'Sullivan" time="10:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200009#G00800"><p>We are storing up incredible problems for services in the future as a result of the impact of living in these situations on children.  It goes against everything stated in the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child.  We are supposed to put the best interests of the child first and do everything we can for the well-being of the child.  I know about these children from the families I meet and calls made to my office.  I also know about them from friends who teach these children.  I want to mention two examples.  One concerns a mother and child who are in emergency accommodation since last January.  They still have no key worker.  Fortunately, I was able to put them in touch with the Family Resource Centre, which is providing support, but its budgets have been cut.  The other example concerns a single parent and her children who were in emergency accommodation in Portmarnock but were moved to Donabate.  The children go to school in Baldoyle.  That is the reality and the Minister knows it as well as I do.  We know the difficulties this is causing.  We know the effect on children's mental, physical and emotional well-being.  We know it affects their attendance at school.  If they are not at school, they are not learning.  We are creating problems and children will leave school early as a result.  Extra supports are needed for these children.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.80" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/952" speakername="James Reilly" time="10:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200009#G00900"><p>I am acutely aware that homelessness is very disruptive to normal family life and it is a major issue that this Government is intent on tackling.  My colleague, the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, with the local authorities, is working hard to address this problem.  We have a social policy Cabinet committee which meets regularly and this item is invariably on the agenda.  I attend those meetings because I am concerned about children and the impact this has on them.</p>  <p>  I agree fully with the Deputy.  The example she describes is a classic example of the disruption caused.  It is all very well to say accommodation is available.  However, it is one thing for a child living in Portmarnock to make the journey to attend school in Baldoyle but to travel from Donabate is another thing entirely.  I consider this issue to be a very serious one and central to it are the efforts to end the need to use emergency accommodation.  I have always been a strong believer in prevention being better than cure.  I assure the Deputy that I am acutely aware of the problems this is creating for families and the negative impact it is having on children.  As are many of my Cabinet colleagues, I am working towards getting this problem sorted because we are, as Deputy O'Sullivan quite rightly states, storing up trouble for the future.  </p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.81" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1005" speakername="Maureen O'Sullivan" time="10:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200009#G01000"><p>We know that the children living in these situations are very much at risk of a lot of issues later in their lives.  We know the importance of early intervention when it comes to the mental health and physical well-being of these children.  The Minister mentioned priorities and the extra funding his Department has received in his answer to Deputy Kyne.  Will the Minister look at these particular needs as an example of early intervention?  There are really serious delays in providing key workers for those in emergency accommodation.  This is fuelling inequality because these are children of parents who have lost their jobs and homes.  The parents are dealing with so much in their own lives and are also trying to provide support for their children.  I ask that they would be a priority in terms of access to key workers and social workers.  The Minister spoke of 400 extra social workers.  This is an area that needs prioritising.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.82" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/952" speakername="James Reilly" time="10:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200009#G01100"><p>For clarity, it is not 400 extra social workers that will be provided but 400 additional staff, the bulk of whom will be social workers.  One of the problems experienced is that social workers, because they did not have any administrative support, spent a lot of their time typing up reports that others could be typing while they are engaging with the families with whom they need and want to engage.  Tusla continues to respond to family support needs, either directly or through commissioned services that can provide support to parents and children who find themselves in this difficult situation.  Tusla is aware that children in emergency accommodation who are being moved are at risk and this is pertinent to its monitoring of the situation.  I hear Deputy O'Sullivan loud and clear.  I am concerned, as is Government, but I am particularly concerned given the impact on children.  I want the best outcomes for our children.  Having put in place all these additional services and additional funding and the Child and Family Agency, which has also received additional funding, it would be counter-productive not to have this problem addressed in as speedy a manner as possible.  The Government is very much occupied by this issue.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.83" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1040" speakername="Michael Kitt" time="10:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200009#G01200"><p>I call Deputy Clare Daly.  We are now behind time.</p></speech>
    <minor-heading id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.84" nospeaker="true" time="10:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200010#H00050">Adoption Legislation</minor-heading>
    <ques id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.85.q" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1192" speakername="Clare Daly" time="10:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200010#H00100"><p><i>8.</i> To ask the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs if he will reconsider the one year lead-in time included in the heads of Adoption (Information and Tracing) Bill, given that further delay for an ageing community of adoptees and natural mothers may result in missed opportunities for reunions.  <b>[42499/15]</b></p></ques>
    <reply id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.86.r" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1192" speakername="Clare Daly" time="10:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200010#H00200"><p>This question relates to the Adoption (Information and Tracing) Bill which, thankfully, we are on the verge of concluding.  In framing the question, it is fair to say that the Minister has delivered this Bill in a manner which the adoption community broadly believes was very consultative and participatory.  However, the one area that remains problematic and about which I wish to make a last ditch plea in order to make what is a good Bill even better, is the issue of the one year lead-in time.  I ask the Minister to reconsider that provision.</p></reply>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.87" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/952" speakername="James Reilly" time="10:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200010#H00300"><p>I thank Deputy Daly for her question.  Efforts have been ongoing for many years to provide a statutory entitlement to information to persons separated as a result of an adoption.  In this regard, the Government approved the publication of the heads and general scheme of the Adoption (Information and Tracing) Bill 2015 in July.  The Bill is intended to facilitate access to adoption information and operates on the basis of a presumption in favour of disclosing information in so far as is legally and constitutionally possible.  The Bill will, for the first time, provide a statutory basis for the provision of information related to both past and future adoptions.  It will provide clarity around the information that can be provided and the circumstances in which it can be provided.</p><p>I referred the Bill to the Joint Oireachtas Committee for Health and Children for pre-legislative scrutiny.  The committee published its report last week and my officials are currently examining the recommendations of the<i></i>report.  I note that one of the key recommendations relates to the length of time being provided for the operation of an information and awareness campaign.  The awareness campaign will be a high-level campaign to publicise the provisions of the new legislation, outlining what information can be provided to adopted people and birth parents and the circumstances in which it can be provided.  It is  part of a suite of measures that the Bill provides in order to ensure the balancing of parental privacy with an adopted person&rsquo;s right to information.  I would point out that during the period when the campaign is underway the information required to apply for a birth certificate will be provided to an adopted person where a birth parent consents or where a birth parent is deceased.  In this regard, the campaign will not impact on the sharing of information and-or contact between birth parents and adoptees, where there is agreement by both parties.</p><p>I am aware that there is a level of dissatisfaction around some of the requirements of the proposed scheme.  However, as the Deputy will appreciate, for the Bill to be legally sound it must include safeguards to protect the constitutional rights of parents to privacy and adopted persons to their identity.  I believe that the safeguards proposed in this Bill, including the awareness campaign, statutory declaration, the offer of support and guidance and the possibility of an appeal to court provide sufficient protection of birth parents' constitutional right to privacy and balance the right to identity information with protection of privacy. Any amendment to the Bill must be considered in this context.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.88" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1192" speakername="Clare Daly" time="10:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200010#H00350"><p>I appreciate that the Minister was pulled in different directions on this and that he was constrained by legal and constitutional issues.  However, I have a general problem with the advice of the Attorney General not being published.  If there is a constitutional impediment it should be addressed if we are to put the right of children to their identity first.  This is another argument in favour of changing the Constitution but that said, I acknowledge the good elements of the Bill and am aware that most people in the adoption community believe that the Minister's handling of this legislation has been very positive.  The key outstanding issue is the age profile of the people involved.  Half of those who were adopted since 1922 have passed away.  Given that their natural mothers are considerably older, at least by 20 years, a delay of a year will mean that hundreds of potential reunifications will be lost.  I ask the Minister to consider reducing the period to between 30 and 60 days and to conduct a much more intensive information campaign.  He should refocus the resources that were to be spent over the course of a year and hone them into a shorter period so we can facilitate people achieving a connection that many of them have long sought.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.89" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/952" speakername="James Reilly" time="10:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200010#H00400"><p>I am aware that the age profile of many of those involved means that time is of the essence from their point of view.  I certainly do not want any undue or unnecessary delay and this is one of the areas that we are examining very closely.  We must have regard to legal advice.  I know that creates problems from Deputy Daly's point of view but the law is there for a good reason, in fairness.  I am actively looking at this issue and will endeavour to do everything I can to reduce the lead-in period, while also making sure that it is sufficiently long so as not to create a problem for the Bill or to undermine it from a legal point of view.  We must be very careful here in terms of unforeseen consequences.  The last thing I want, having got this Bill to this point, is to have it challenged in court and struck down.  People have waited a long time for this.  I am very aware of the sensitivities involved and know the hurt that people feel.  I also know that sometimes they think we have been a bit too legalistic in our approach but we must make sure that the Bill succeeds and gives them what they want, which is a right to their identity.  At the same time, the Bill also provides for a proactive approach in that when someone registers, we will actively find a contact for him or her.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.90" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1192" speakername="Clare Daly" time="10:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200010#H00500"><p>I accept the Minister's good intentions and bona fides on this.  The Bill raised constitutional issues in terms of the Supreme Court ruling on the right to privacy of natural mothers and the one year lead-in period was provided for in that context, along with the veto.  However, I understand that the one year lead-in time was not specifically part of the Attorney General's advice.  Given that the Minister has said that he is considering it in the spirit, which is very important to the adoption community, of ensuring that no one is left behind, then hopefully we will be able to reduce the time limit.  I would very much like it to be 30 or 60 days but even six months or four months would be better than a year.  Every month by which we reduce it potentially brings people together and gives them their right to an identity, in some instances before they pass away, which is hugely important.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.91" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/952" speakername="James Reilly" time="10:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200010#H00600"><p>I reiterate that this is an issue that I am actively examining and regularly reviewing.  I would like to see it reduced to the shortest possible time but still remain safe from a legal point of view.  I am not implying that the Attorney General, in this particular instance, has given advice regarding the year's duration.  However, we have legal advice to that effect at the moment and we will seek to get hardened advice that will allow us to reduce it as much as possible.</p>  <p>  I wish to take the opportunity to thank all those in the adoption community, adoptees and birth mothers and all who have taken the time to speak to us.  I also thank all of those who made contributions during the pre-legislative scrutiny process at the Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children.  I thank everyone for their forbearance and reassure them that we are seeking to address this issue to their satisfaction.</p></speech>
    <major-heading id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.92" nospeaker="true" time="10:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200011#J00050">Residential Tenancies (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2012: From the Seanad (Resumed)</major-heading>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.93" nospeaker="true" time="10:45:00" ><p>The D&aacute;il went into Committee to resume consideration of Seanad amendment No. 47:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.94" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1192" speakername="Clare Daly" time="10:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200011#J00400"><p>I move amendment No. 2 to Seanad amendment No. 47:</p><blockquote>To insert the following subsection before subsection (1):&ldquo;(1) Section 19 of the Principal Act is amended in subsection (1), by inserting the following after &ldquo;at that time.&rdquo;:<blockquote>&ldquo;Market rent is defined as the average price per square metre of a property with equivalent fittings and finish in the same municipal district or local electoral area, as applicable.  The average price per square metre shall be calculated using the data gathered and published in accordance with section 151(1)(bc) (as amended by <i>section 37</i>of the<i>Residential Tenancies (Amendment) Act 2015</i>).&rdquo;.&rdquo;.</blockquote></blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.95" nospeaker="true" time="10:45:00" ><p>Amendment No. 2 to Seanad amendment No. 47 put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.96" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1192" speakername="Clare Daly" time="10:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200011#J00600"><p>I move amendment No. 3 to Seanad amendment No. 47:</p><blockquote>In section 18(1), in the inserted subsection (4), to delete &ldquo;, for the duration of the relevant period,&rdquo;.</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.97" nospeaker="true" time="10:45:00" ><p>Amendment No. 3 to Seanad amendment No. 47 put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.98" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1040" speakername="Michael Kitt" time="10:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200011#J00750"><p>As the proposers of amendment No. 4 to Seanad amendment No. 47 are not present, it cannot be moved.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.99" nospeaker="true" time="10:45:00" ><p>Amendment No. 4 to Seanad amendment No. 47 not moved.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.100" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1192" speakername="Clare Daly" time="10:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200011#J00900"><p>I move amendment No. 5 to Seanad amendment No. 47:</p><blockquote>In section 18(1), to delete the inserted subsection (5) and substitute the following:&ldquo;(5) Subsections (4) and (6) shall be reviewed by D&aacute;il &Eacute;ireann on the nearest date to the fourth anniversary of the day on which <i>section 18</i>of the <i>Residential Tenancies (Amendment) Act 2015 </i>came into operation on which D&aacute;il &Eacute;ireann sits, and D&aacute;il &Eacute;ireann shall decide, with a view to the housing situation in the country at the time, the social good, and the principle of housing as a human right, whether subsections (4) and (6) should remain in place.&rdquo;.</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.101" nospeaker="true" time="10:45:00" ><p>Amendment No. 5 to Seanad amendment No. 47 put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.102" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1192" speakername="Clare Daly" time="10:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200011#J01100"><p>I move amendment No. 6 to Seanad amendment No. 47:</p><blockquote>In section 18(1), after the inserted subsection (6), to insert the following:&ldquo;(7) Any increase mandated by a review of the rent as referred to in subsection (1) shall not be greater than the percentage annual rate of inflation, or 5 per cent, whichever is the lower.&rdquo;.&rdquo;.</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.103/1" nospeaker="true" time="10:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200012#K00100"><p>Amendment to amendment put:</p><p>The Committee divided: Tá, 38; Níl, 49.</p><br/><p>Tellers: Tá, Deputies Clare Daly and Mick Wallace; Níl, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Joe Carey.</p></speech>
        <division id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.103/2" nospeaker="true" divdate="2015-12-02" time="10:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200012#K00100">
            <divisioncount ayes="38" noes="49" />
                <mplist vote="aye">
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1199" vote="aye">Bobby Aylward</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" vote="aye">Richard Boyd Barrett</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1071" vote="aye">Dara Calleary</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1193" vote="aye">Joan Collins</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1083" vote="aye">Michael Colreavy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1195" vote="aye">Ruth Coppinger</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1101" vote="aye">Barry Cowen</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1037" vote="aye">Se&aacute;n Crowe</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1192" vote="aye">Clare Daly</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/976" vote="aye">Timmy Dooley</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1022" vote="aye">Dessie Ellis</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1047" vote="aye">Martin Ferris</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1198" vote="aye">Michael Fitzmaurice</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1050" vote="aye">Tom Fleming</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1108" vote="aye">Noel Grealish</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1094" vote="aye">John Halligan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/960" vote="aye">S&eacute;amus Healy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1049" vote="aye">Michael Healy-Rae</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1188" vote="aye">Colm Keaveney</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/983" vote="aye">Billy Kelleher</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/998" vote="aye">P&aacute;draig MacLochlainn</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1008" vote="aye">Mary Lou McDonald</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1017" vote="aye">Finian McGrath</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1090" vote="aye">Mattie McGrath</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/993" vote="aye">Michael McGrath</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/981" vote="aye">Sandra McLellan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/987" vote="aye">Michael Moynihan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1202" vote="aye">Catherine Murphy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1177" vote="aye">Denis Naughten</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/969" vote="aye">Caoimhgh&iacute;n &Oacute; Caol&aacute;in</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1044" vote="aye">&Eacute;amon &Oacute; Cu&iacute;v</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1028" vote="aye">Aengus &Oacute; Snodaigh</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1059" vote="aye">Willie O'Dea</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1005" vote="aye">Maureen O'Sullivan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1001" vote="aye">Thomas Pringle</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/953" vote="aye">Shane Ross</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1080" vote="aye">Peadar T&oacute;ib&iacute;n</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/956" vote="aye">Mick Wallace</mpname>
                </mplist>
                <mplist vote="no">
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1062" vote="no">James Bannon</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/974" vote="no">Pat Breen</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/989" vote="no">Jerry Buttimer</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1029" vote="no">Catherine Byrne</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1042" vote="no">Ciar&aacute;n Cannon</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/975" vote="no">Joe Carey</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1092" vote="no">Paudie Coffey</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1093" vote="no">Ciara Conway</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1087" vote="no">Noel Coonan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/986" vote="no">Michael Creed</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/994" vote="no">Jim Daly</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1046" vote="no">Jimmy Deenihan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1075" vote="no">Regina Doherty</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1011" vote="no">Robert Dowds</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/957" vote="no">Bernard Durkan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1014" vote="no">Alan Farrell</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1055" vote="no">Charles Flanagan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1051" vote="no">Brendan Griffin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/995" vote="no">Noel Harrington</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1106" vote="no">Simon Harris</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1097" vote="no">Brendan Howlin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1033" vote="no">Kevin Humphreys</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1012" vote="no">Derek Keating</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1021" vote="no">Se&aacute;n Kenny</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1110" vote="no">Se&aacute;n Kyne</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/990" vote="no">Ciar&aacute;n Lynch</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1023" vote="no">John Lyons</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1180" vote="no">Helen McEntee</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/997" vote="no">Joe McHugh</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1082" vote="no">Tony McLoughlin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1026" vote="no">Olivia Mitchell</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1070" vote="no">Michelle Mulherin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/985" vote="no">Dara Murphy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1056" vote="no">Dan Neville</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1045" vote="no">Derek Nolan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1060" vote="no">Kieran O'Donnell</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1058" vote="no">Patrick O'Donovan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1069" vote="no">Fergus O'Dowd</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1073" vote="no">John O'Mahony</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1063" vote="no">Willie Penrose</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/966" vote="no">John Paul Phelan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1035" vote="no">Ruairi Quinn</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/947" vote="no">Pat Rabbitte</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/952" vote="no">James Reilly</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1074" vote="no">Michael Ring</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/961" vote="no">Emmet Stagg</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1207" vote="no">Billy Timmins</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1095" vote="no">Liam Twomey</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1024" vote="no">Alex White</mpname>
                </mplist>
        </division>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.103/3" nospeaker="true" time="10:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200012#K00100"><p>Amendment to amendment declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.104" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1195" speakername="Ruth Coppinger" time="10:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200012#K00200"><p>I move amendment No. 7 to Seanad amendment No. 47:</p><blockquote>In section 18, to delete subsection (3).</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.105/1" nospeaker="true" time="10:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200012#K00300"><p>Amendment to amendment put:</p><p>The Committee divided: Tá, 38; Níl, 53.</p><br/><p>Tellers: Tá, Deputies Richard Boyd Barrett and Ruth Coppinger; Níl, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Joe Carey.</p></speech>
        <division id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.105/2" nospeaker="true" divdate="2015-12-02" time="10:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200012#K00300">
            <divisioncount ayes="38" noes="53" />
                <mplist vote="aye">
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1199" vote="aye">Bobby Aylward</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" vote="aye">Richard Boyd Barrett</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1071" vote="aye">Dara Calleary</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1193" vote="aye">Joan Collins</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1083" vote="aye">Michael Colreavy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1195" vote="aye">Ruth Coppinger</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1101" vote="aye">Barry Cowen</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1037" vote="aye">Se&aacute;n Crowe</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1192" vote="aye">Clare Daly</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/976" vote="aye">Timmy Dooley</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1022" vote="aye">Dessie Ellis</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1047" vote="aye">Martin Ferris</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1198" vote="aye">Michael Fitzmaurice</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1050" vote="aye">Tom Fleming</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1108" vote="aye">Noel Grealish</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1094" vote="aye">John Halligan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/960" vote="aye">S&eacute;amus Healy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1049" vote="aye">Michael Healy-Rae</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1188" vote="aye">Colm Keaveney</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/983" vote="aye">Billy Kelleher</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/998" vote="aye">P&aacute;draig MacLochlainn</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1008" vote="aye">Mary Lou McDonald</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1017" vote="aye">Finian McGrath</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1090" vote="aye">Mattie McGrath</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/993" vote="aye">Michael McGrath</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/981" vote="aye">Sandra McLellan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/992" vote="aye">Miche&aacute;l Martin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/987" vote="aye">Michael Moynihan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1202" vote="aye">Catherine Murphy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/969" vote="aye">Caoimhgh&iacute;n &Oacute; Caol&aacute;in</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1044" vote="aye">&Eacute;amon &Oacute; Cu&iacute;v</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1028" vote="aye">Aengus &Oacute; Snodaigh</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1059" vote="aye">Willie O'Dea</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1005" vote="aye">Maureen O'Sullivan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1001" vote="aye">Thomas Pringle</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/953" vote="aye">Shane Ross</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1080" vote="aye">Peadar T&oacute;ib&iacute;n</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/956" vote="aye">Mick Wallace</mpname>
                </mplist>
                <mplist vote="no">
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1062" vote="no">James Bannon</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/974" vote="no">Pat Breen</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/989" vote="no">Jerry Buttimer</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1029" vote="no">Catherine Byrne</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1042" vote="no">Ciar&aacute;n Cannon</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/975" vote="no">Joe Carey</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1092" vote="no">Paudie Coffey</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1093" vote="no">Ciara Conway</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1087" vote="no">Noel Coonan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/986" vote="no">Michael Creed</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/994" vote="no">Jim Daly</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1046" vote="no">Jimmy Deenihan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1075" vote="no">Regina Doherty</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1011" vote="no">Robert Dowds</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/957" vote="no">Bernard Durkan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1014" vote="no">Alan Farrell</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1055" vote="no">Charles Flanagan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1051" vote="no">Brendan Griffin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/995" vote="no">Noel Harrington</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1106" vote="no">Simon Harris</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1097" vote="no">Brendan Howlin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1033" vote="no">Kevin Humphreys</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1012" vote="no">Derek Keating</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1021" vote="no">Se&aacute;n Kenny</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1110" vote="no">Se&aacute;n Kyne</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/990" vote="no">Ciar&aacute;n Lynch</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1023" vote="no">John Lyons</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/996" vote="no">Michael McCarthy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1180" vote="no">Helen McEntee</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1000" vote="no">Dinny McGinley</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/997" vote="no">Joe McHugh</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1082" vote="no">Tony McLoughlin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1026" vote="no">Olivia Mitchell</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1070" vote="no">Michelle Mulherin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/985" vote="no">Dara Murphy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1177" vote="no">Denis Naughten</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1056" vote="no">Dan Neville</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1045" vote="no">Derek Nolan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1060" vote="no">Kieran O'Donnell</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1058" vote="no">Patrick O'Donovan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1069" vote="no">Fergus O'Dowd</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1073" vote="no">John O'Mahony</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/971" vote="no">Joe O'Reilly</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1063" vote="no">Willie Penrose</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/966" vote="no">John Paul Phelan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1035" vote="no">Ruairi Quinn</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/947" vote="no">Pat Rabbitte</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/952" vote="no">James Reilly</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1074" vote="no">Michael Ring</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/961" vote="no">Emmet Stagg</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1207" vote="no">Billy Timmins</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1095" vote="no">Liam Twomey</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1024" vote="no">Alex White</mpname>
                </mplist>
        </division>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.105/3" nospeaker="true" time="10:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200012#K00300"><p>Amendment to amendment declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.106" nospeaker="true" time="11:05:00" ><p>Amendment No. 8 to Seanad amendment No. 47 not moved.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.107" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1192" speakername="Clare Daly" time="11:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200013#L00200"><p>I move amendment No. 9 to Seanad amendment No. 47:</p><blockquote>In section 18(3)(a), in the second line, to delete &ldquo;where a review&rdquo; and substitute &ldquo;if a review&rdquo;.</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.108" nospeaker="true" time="11:05:00" ><p>Amendment No. 9 to Seanad amendment No. 47 put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.109" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1192" speakername="Clare Daly" time="11:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200013#L00400"><p>I move amendment No. 10 to Seanad amendment No. 47:</p><blockquote>In section 18(3)(a), to delete subparagraph (i) and substitute the following:&ldquo;(i) has been carried out in accordance with that section 60 days or less than 60 days before the day on which <i>subsection (1) </i>comes into operation, and any notice under section 22(2) of the Principal Act served pursuant to that review shall be null, if it has been served 60 days or less than 60 days before <i>subsection (1) </i>comes into operation,&rdquo;.</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.110" nospeaker="true" time="11:05:00" ><p>Amendment No. 10 to Seanad amendment No. 47 put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.111" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1192" speakername="Clare Daly" time="11:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200013#L00600"><p>I move amendment No. 11 to Seanad amendment No. 47:</p><blockquote>In section 18(3)(b), in the second and third line, to delete &ldquo;during the period for which subsections (4) and (6) of section 20 of the Principal Act have effect&rdquo;.</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.112" nospeaker="true" time="11:05:00" ><p>Amendment No. 11 to Seanad amendment No. 47 put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.113" nospeaker="true" time="11:05:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 47 agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.114" nospeaker="true" time="11:05:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 48:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.115" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1195" speakername="Ruth Coppinger" time="11:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200013#L01100"><p>I move amendment No. 1 to Seanad amendment No. 48:</p><blockquote>In section 19(1)(a)(i), to delete &ldquo;90 days&rdquo; and substitute &ldquo;180 days&rdquo;.</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.116" nospeaker="true" time="11:05:00" ><p>Amendment No. 1 to Seanad amendment No. 48 put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.117" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1192" speakername="Clare Daly" time="11:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200013#L01300"><p>I move amendment No. 2 to Seanad amendment No. 48:</p><blockquote>In section 19(1)(b), in the inserted subsection (2A), to delete paragraphs (c) and (d) and substitute the following:&ldquo;(c) include a statement by the landlord that the new rent is not in breach of subsection (7) (inserted by <i>section 19 </i>of the <i>Residential Tenancies (Amendment) Act 2015</i>),&rdquo;.</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.118" nospeaker="true" time="11:05:00" ><p>Amendment No. 2 to Seanad amendment No. 48 put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.119" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1197" speakername="Paul Murphy" time="11:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200013#L01500"><p>I move amendment No. 3 to Seanad amendment No. 48:</p><blockquote>In section 19(1)(b), in the inserted subsection (2A), to delete paragraph (c) and substitute the following:&ldquo;(c) include a statement by the landlord that in his or her opinion the new rent is not greater than for a dwelling in the Dublin area (as defined by the Private Residential Tenancies Board Rent Index) the rent charged on the dwelling in Quarter 1 2011, or for a dwelling outside the Dublin area (as defined by the Private Residential Tenancies Board Rent Index) the rent charged on the dwelling in Quarter 2 2013, with the addition in either case of allowance for the general rate of inflation according to the Consumer Price Index since Quarter 1 2011 or Quarter 2 2013, whichever date applies,&rdquo;.</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.120" nospeaker="true" time="11:05:00" ><p>Amendment amendment No. 3 to Seanad amendment No. 48 put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.121" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1192" speakername="Clare Daly" time="11:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200013#L01700"><p>I move amendment No. 4 to Seanad amendment No. 48:</p><blockquote>In section 19(1)(b), to delete the inserted subsection (2C).</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.122" nospeaker="true" time="11:05:00" ><p>Amendment No. 4 to Seanad amendment No. 48 put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.123" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1197" speakername="Paul Murphy" time="11:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200013#L01900"><p>I  move amendment No. 5 to Seanad amendment No. 48:</p><blockquote>In section 19, to delete subsection (2).</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.124" nospeaker="true" time="11:05:00" ><p>Amendment No. 5 to Seanad amendment No. 48 put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.125" nospeaker="true" time="11:05:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 48 agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.126" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1040" speakername="Michael Kitt" time="11:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200013#L02200"><p>Seanad amendments Nos. 49 to 51, inclusive, and No. 53 and the amendments to these amendments are related and will be discussed together.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.127" nospeaker="true" time="11:05:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 49:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.128" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1092" speakername="Paudie Coffey" time="11:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200013#L02500"><p>Seanad amendment No. 49 is a technical amendment which clarifies that when terminating a Part 4 tenancy, a landlord must comply with both Parts 4 and 5 of the Act.  The 2004 Act specifies the grounds on which a landlord may terminate a tenancy.  A landlord may not serve a notice of termination on a tenant, except in very clearly defined circumstances such as a failure by the tenant to comply with his or her obligations in relation to the tenancy; where the landlord intends to sell the property within three months after the termination of the tenancy; or where the landlord requires the dwelling for his or her own occupation or for that of a family member.</p><p>Seanad amendments Nos. 50 and 51 will strengthen the protections around tenancy terminations by providing for measures that will guard against, for example, landlords falsely declaring that the property is needed for a family member, or that it is going to be sold.  These measures involve (i) a landlord having to explain in a written statement to the tenant why a property might no longer be suitable to their accommodation needs having regard to the number of bed spaces and the size and composition of the household; (ii) a landlord having to make a statutory declaration as to his or her intention to sell a property; (iii) a landlord having to make a statutory declaration that the property is needed for his or her occupation or that of a family member; or (iv) a landlord providing a copy of planning permission obtained, where relevant.</p><p>Under section 66 of the current legislation, the period of notice of termination increases according to the length of the tenancy.  A landlord must give a tenant a minimum of 28 days notice for tenancies of less than six months duration, up to a maximum of 112 days notice for tenancies of four years or more.  A tenant must give a landlord a minimum of 28 days notice for tenancies of less than six months duration, up to a maximum of 56 days notice for tenancies of two years or more.</p><p>Seanad amendment No. 53 introduces further graduated increases in the notice period such that a landlord will have to give a tenant up to a maximum of 224 days notice for tenancies of eight years or more, as follows: a tenancy of five years or more but less than six years requires 140 days notice; a tenancy of six years or more but less than seven years requires 168 days notice; a tenancy of seven years or more but less than eight years requires 196 days notice; and a tenancy of eight or more years requires 224 days notice.  This will give tenants who have lived in their rented accommodation for long periods sufficient time to source alternative accommodation and is consistent with a recommendation made in the DKM report entitled, Future of the Private Rented Sector<i>, </i>which was commissioned by the Private Residential Tenancies Board.  A tenant, meanwhile, will have to give a landlord up to a maximum of 112 days notice for tenancies of eight years or more, as follows: a tenancy of four years or more but less than eight years requires 84 days notice; and a tenancy of eight or more years requires 112 days.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.129" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1192" speakername="Clare Daly" time="11:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200013#L02600"><p>I would like to address amendment No. 3 to Seanad amendment No. 53 which reads:</p><blockquote>In section 19(1), to delete paragraph (b) and substitute the following:&ldquo;(b) the duration of tenancy shall not affect the notice period required for termination by a tenant, which shall in all cases be 28 days.&rdquo;.</blockquote><p>It is about notice requirements for tenants.  What the amendment seeks to do is to change the minimum notice period required of tenants.  The effect of the Seanad amendment and the original Act means that the longer a tenant is in a property, the longer the period of notice they need to give.  This does not make any sense.  Why should a tenant who has been <i>in situ</i>for two and a half years have to give two months notice that they must leave?  Minimum notice periods for termination for landlords make perfect sense.  The longer a tenant has been in place, the more they have put down roots and the more difficult it is for them to pack up and go.  The flip side is not the same.  A landlord is running a business and finding a new tenant is not going to be any more difficult simply because a tenant has been in the property for two or three years.  It makes sense that the minimum notice a tenant should have to give to a landlord in all cases be 28 days.  This should be more than enough time for a landlord to seek out new tenants and get their affairs in order.  <br/><br/>Demanding long notice periods from tenants prevents the type of mobility that is an advantage of renting in the first place.  At the end of their tenancy, they do not own an asset but the <i>quid pro quo</i>is that they have a certain flexibility in their living arrangements and can move with relative ease, which is one of the reasons why some people choose to rent.  This is something we should be encouraging.  <br/><br/>Another issue the Minister of State should consider is the fact that given that the legislation only allows the subletting of a property at the landlord's discretion, giving a long notice period for tenants could see some tenants paying double rent for a couple of months if they need to move out quickly for work or some other reason and if the landlord will not let them sublet the property.  This is another reason to encourage the retention of 28 days notice for the tenant.  I am fully in favour of the longer notice period required of the landlord.<br/><br/>The Minister of State should agree to this amendment.  It is a positive measure and I cannot see how anybody could disagree with it.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.131" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/956" speakername="Mick Wallace" time="11:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200014#M00200"><p>It is very hard to see the rationale behind this.  If people are in a property for a number of years, very often they have started families and moving is a much bigger challenge than it is for someone who has only been in a place for 12 or 18 months.  If a person has children, they are looking at different schools.  There is far more to be taken into consideration and the idea of giving people a little more time to sort themselves out is a rational one.</p>  <p>  If I was a landlord and was going to get three months notice, I probably would not look to let it until about 28 days before vacancy.  I do not see where the merit lies in this.  If someone had to give three months notice to get out of the apartment and I put that up for rent, I would be wasting money on advertising it at that stage.  If I put it up for rent there and then, the chances of finding someone who would want an apartment in a particular area in three months time are slim.  I would not waste my money advertising it.  I would wait until four or five weeks before the apartment was to be vacated because I would not be wasting my money then.  I do not see it as a serious benefit to a landlord whereas I do regard it as a very unfair restriction on the person who is renting the property.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.132" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1195" speakername="Ruth Coppinger" time="11:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200014#M00300"><p>I wish to speak on our amendments, amendments Nos. 1 and 2 to Seanad amendment No. 51.  They concern the statutory declaration, which is a critical issue for tenants.  The commonest reason for people becoming homeless - the people with whom I speak - is not rent increases because landlords know that it is more difficult to evict somebody on the basis of a rent increase now.  In many cases, landlords are using other legal means to rid of tenants so that they can jack up the rent when tenants are gone.  There are legitimate reasons why somebody might need to have a property vacated but landlords are citing reasons like a family member having to move in.  One woman was told recently that her landlord's mother was terminally ill and needed a place to go.  I have heard all sorts of reasons as to why the tenant must move out and the landlord needs to have the property vacated.  In all those cases, people have seen the property re-let at a later stage with the increase in rent effected because it is not possible to get the rent up to a level one wants to see, particularly for somebody on rent allowance.  This is what landlords are doing.</p>  <p>  We welcome anything that would strengthen the hand of tenants but a statutory declaration will only go so far.  In addition, we want proof from the landlord that they have made inquiries and have had some communication with a prospective buyer or estate agent or have some evidence that were the property not to be sold, they would suffer significant and unfair financial hardship.  An epidemic of homelessness is raging, particularly in Dublin and other cities.  This is the main way that people are now becoming homeless because they are powerless to do anything legally to stop landlords using these clauses to get them out.  Surely the Minister of State knows this.  A statutory declaration overseen by a solicitor is not good enough.  We need landlords to provide proof that it is incumbent on them to sell the house and that they have made serious efforts to do that.  </p>  <p>  It would have been helpful if the Government had seen the need to introduce a ban on repossessions in general by banks and receivers where landlords are being put under pressure to sell their properties because prices are going up.  The Government has not seen fit to introduce that in this legislation, although it is sorely needed to protect families from becoming homeless.  We are asking that this be amended to make it even stronger, in order to put pressure on landlords to indicate that properties genuinely need to be vacated and that they are not just legally looking for ways to evict tenants so they can jack up the rent, which we all know is going on.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.133" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1022" speakername="Dessie Ellis" time="11:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200014#M00400"><p>In respect of amendment No. 1 to Seanad amendment No. 51, landlords have said that they were selling properties and we then find out that the sale does not happen.  I have come across it as, I imagine, have many other Members.  We need some penalty or mechanism to deal with that because it is ridiculous that properties are re-let after people have been virtually turfed out and they give the proper notice.  Very severe penalties need to be imposed.  We need proof that the landlord is actually going to sell the property and if it is not sold, we need to ensure that means are found to deal with this.</p>  <p>  I will withdraw amendment No. 2 to Seanad amendment No. 53.  It is important that we do not make it very difficult for tenants who must give notice to their landlord because it is already difficult enough.  Giving 28 days notice seems reasonably fair.  If we start imposing longer periods based on the length of the tenancy, it would be a disaster.  We need to be sensible.  People have commitments and have to move.  They may have various different reasons in this regard.  A landlord has more flexibility when it comes to giving tenants notice.  I will support Deputy Clare Daly's amendment.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.134" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1101" speakername="Barry Cowen" time="11:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200015#N00100"><p>In the past few weeks, some elderly people renting properties have told me their landlords sought to raise the rent.  I explained adequate notice needs to be in place for that to happen and the landlords were more than likely seeking to take advantage of the delay and vacuum that had been created by the legislation not being passed over the past year.  Many of those people fear for their security of tenure if they question the landlord about this.  In the event that such people lose their tenancy, can there be retrospective reporting?  In the event of such reporting, will the consequences for the landlord be as outlined in various parts of the legislation to deal with that issue?  It can also apply in the context of notification of ending of tenancies.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.135" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1197" speakername="Paul Murphy" time="11:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200015#N00200"><p>I am speaking on our amendments to Seanad amendment No. 53.  Part of the resolution to the housing crisis will be to increase the rights of tenants and to create a situation whereby the legal balance between tenants and landlords is shifted so that tenants can have security of tenure without the risk of being turfed out at short notice and can develop a home and connections with their community, etc.  The Government&rsquo;s amendments for increasing the notice period are entirely inadequate.  The period for the landlord to give notice to the tenant remains ridiculously low.  A tenant who has been there for less than six months can be turfed out in 28 days.  For one who has been there for between six months and a year, the period is 35 days while for who has been there for between a year and two years, the period is 42 days.  It makes it easier for the landlord to decide to get the tenants out for whatever reason and creates instability and insecurity for a tenant who, at relatively short notice, can be asked to leave.  For that reason, our amendments propose a significant extension of the notice period required for the landlord.  I agree that there should be no extension of the period for the notice required from the tenant but the landlord, as a minimum, should give 60 days&rsquo; notice.  People should have at least two months to get their affairs in order before being asked to leave.  This is a question of creating an environment where tenants&rsquo; rights come before the ability of landlords to simply choose to put people out for whatever reason.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.136" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1092" speakername="Paudie Coffey" time="11:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200015#N00300"><p>I agree with Deputy Coppinger that it is more difficult to evict on the basis of rent increases.  That is due to the protections in place and the recourse tenants have to the PRTB and the courts, if necessary.  They have protective rights in legislation.</p>  <p>  I will deal first with amendment No. 1 to Seanad amendment No. 51 which places additional requirements on landlords who are selling their dwellings.  As we know, many people do not use estate agents to sell their property and, as such, a requirement to produce correspondence with estate agents would be unfair on those landlords who wish to sell their own dwellings.  In addition, the requirement is that a landlord must have an intention to sell, not have sold the dwelling or have a buyer in place.  Therefore, it would not be appropriate to provide that the landlord must provide correspondence from a prospective buyer.  The requirement for landlords to give evidence that they would suffer significant financial hardship unless they sell the dwellings would introduce significant and unfair limitations on their freedom to make decisions about their private property and infringe on their property rights.  The Seanad amendments provide that the notice of termination must be accompanied by a statutory declaration.  To make a false statement in a statutory declaration is an offence.  Therefore, I am satisfied that the Seanad amendments will be effective in preventing fraud in this regard. </p>  <p>  In addition to the strengthened measures being introduced in this Bill, there are already significant protections in the 2004 Act to prevent this type of fraud.  Section 56 provides that where a tenant vacates a property on foot of a notice of termination on the grounds the landlord wants to sell the dwelling or needs it for a family member and the tenant subsequently finds this was not the reason for the termination, the tenant can bring a complaint to the PRTB, which may award damages against the landlord and may make an order that the tenant resume possession of the house.  Taken together with the new measures I have introduced, I believe there are sufficient protections for tenants in the Act against invalid terminations. </p>  <p>  There are plenty of examples of tenants being successful before the PRTB and being awarded compensation.  It is important we take the opportunity in this debate to say that tenants are made aware of their rights under existing legislation.  There has been a successful outcome from the tenancy sustainment protocol operated through Threshold, which manages to keep thousands of people in their homes by giving proper information for tenants to know their rights and resist fraudulent terminations of tenancies.  That is a fact which is there to be seen.</p>  <p>  In respect of the retrospective reporting mentioned by Deputy Cowen, that would be a matter for the PRTB in determining its decisions.  It is independent and quasi-judicial.  Where the PRTB decisions or awards are not upheld by either party, there is recourse to the courts.  In this legislation, we are improving access to the courts and the timelines for disputes because when this legislation is passed, the District Courts will be able to hear cases whereas before now, people were waiting to have their cases heard in the Circuit Court which was causing delays.  </p>  <p>  With regard to amendment No. 2 to Seanad amendment No. 51 where further evidence is required that a landlord needs the dwelling for family occupation.  In effect, the amendment provides that a landlord may only terminate a tenancy where he or she requires the dwelling for himself or herself or for his or her family in circumstances where to do otherwise would be to cause the landlord significant financial hardship.  As with amendment No. 1 to Seanad amendment No. 51, this amendment would introduce significant and unfair limitations on a landlord&rsquo;s freedom to make decisions in relation to his or her private property and infringe on his or her property rights.  As such, I do not propose to accept this amendment. </p>  <p>  With regard to amendments Nos. 1, 2 and 3 to Seanad amendment No. 53, which refers to the longer notice periods for termination that Deputy Clare Daly and others have mentioned, these amendments all relate to the notice periods for the termination of tenancies.  The additional notice periods provided for in the Seanad amendments increase the notice periods for landlords and tenants.  In doing so, they have been calibrated so as to maintain the proportional relationship between the notice periods.  This means, for example, the maximum notice period that long-term tenants of eight years' duration or more must give is 112 days, half as long as the landlord must give in such circumstances.</p>  <p>  The Act is carefully constructed to be fair to landlords and tenants alike.  Where a tenancy has been in existence for eight or more years, it is important that the landlord also receives adequate notice so that he or she can source the right tenant for the dwelling concerned.  In amending the termination notice periods, we have maintained the principle behind the notice periods already established in the Act and for that reason, I cannot accept the amendments.  Under section 69 of the Act, the landlord or the tenant may agree to a lesser period of notice being given at the time or after the time the intention to terminate the tenancy has been given.</p>  <p>  In response to opposition amendment No. 4 to Seanad amendment No. 53, which refers to the application of new notice periods to notices already served, these amendments seek to provide that the new notice periods would apply to notices of termination already served at the commencement of these provisions.  As I have already stated, it is not possible to retrospectively apply the new provisions and, as such, I will not accept this amendment.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.137" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1192" speakername="Clare Daly" time="11:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200015#N00400"><p>I know the Minister for State explained why he came up with the notice period but it does not address the fundamental problem.  It does not make any sense whatsoever that a tenant would have to give a longer notice period the longer he or she is in the tenancy.</p><p>I note the Minister of State observed the landlord can shorten that period in order that the tenant is not obliged to give such notice but that is not really good enough.  Members are aware that quiet or vulnerable tenants will not get into an argument with a landlord on that point and even if they do, the landlord has no obligation to concede to their demands in that regard.  The Minister of State did not really address any of the practical points I made in advocating the amendment about the concept of renting and the flexibility it gives to people.  When one combines this with the fact that landlords will not permit subletting in many instances, the Minister of State is placing an undue burden on the tenant here without, in a point well made by Deputy Wallace, any benefit to the landlord because no landlord will advertise a property six months ahead and no one will take it up.  Consequently, there is no benefit to this provision.  The amendment I tabled is really practical and does not disenfranchise landlords at all but gives tenants a right of which they should be able to avail.  I urge the Minister of State to consider the amendment for all the reasons I gave earlier.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.139" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1195" speakername="Ruth Coppinger" time="11:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200016#O00200"><p>On the issue of what obligation should be placed on landlords to prove they are selling the property and that it genuinely is the reason they need to evict someone, the Minister of State is correct to note it is more difficult to evict somebody on the basis of a rent increase but many landlords are resorting to outright harassment of tenants.  I have spoken to many families who have been renting for a long time and who have been subjected to text messages throughout the evening and night and to landlords calling unannounced.  There are many different ways in which to get rid of someone.  However, the Minister of State was wrong on one point in that if one rings Threshold, which is a good organisation that gives good advice, to tell it one's landlord has told one he or she must sell the property for a family member, there is absolutely nothing Threshold can do about it.  The tenant must comply and that is why landlords are using this method because it is a much simpler way to get rid of people, particularly those in receipt of rent allowance in that if one is in receipt of rent allowance, one cannot afford to find more money out of one's own income or one will not be awarded an increase by the community welfare officers relative to what is needed.  Consequently, it is a kind of ethnic cleansing of people who are in receipt of rent allowance from properties by landlords in order that they can re-let the properties to people on higher incomes.  All Members, including the Minister of State I am sure, have heard the stories about people who wish to rent a property.  One goes into a queue with 20 or 30 people ahead of one.  It is akin to an audition for "The X Factor" where one must show references, details of salary or wages and so on.  Consequently, I reject the idea that someone will have any power to resist a landlord who states he or she must sell when it is written down in the law.  In the amendments tabled, my colleagues and I seek the placing of a greater onus on landlords to prove this actually is the case and that they would suffer undue hardship were they unable to vacate the property.</p>  <p>  Yesterday, I believe the Minister, Deputy Kelly, stated there was no reason anyone in this country should not have a bed at night.  I do not know on what planet he is living but when people are evicted, which I see take place in my constituency practically every day, they must contact the council immediately to let it know.  However, the council essentially hands such people a sheet of paper and tells them to find their own accommodation.  People frequently cannot find any accommodation because there is none and hotels are not taking people.  They then are obliged to find a sofa or a car and in some cases, people have slept outdoors because of the pressure under which they feel they are putting their friends and so on.  The Minister is not living in the real world.  These amendments are about strengthening the rights of families to remain in a property and not to become homeless and, in a sense, a burden on the taxpayer.  The Government appears to be more concerned about the rights of private property and of landlords to be able to re-let properties than it is about protecting families and the taxpayer, who must pay heavily to hotels because no council or social housing is being built.  The Minister of State stated it was not appropriate to restrict landlords' freedoms but what about the human rights of people to have a roof over their heads?  We have a housing crisis and the Government has failed to grapple with it.  Consequently, I unapologetically am in favour of restricting landlords' freedoms.  I am more in favour of restricting the freedom of a landlord than I am of restricting the rights of families and people who have been forced into the private rented sector because they have no option, as should be the Government because that is more important.  However, we also have a Constitution that unfortunately seems to give absolute primacy to private property.</p>  <p>  Ministers and Deputies probably should declare an interest if they are landlords because there is a disproportionate number of landlords in this House.  I believe one in four Members is a landlord compared with 4% of people in society.  Perhaps so doing would not go amiss when people are speaking or trooping in to vote on this Bill.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.140" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1197" speakername="Paul Murphy" time="11:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200016#O00300"><p>I will be brief.  In his response to our amendments and why they cannot be accepted, the Minister of State effectively gave the game away with the line that it would interfere with the right to property and by property, one should read the right of landlords to maximise their profit, their rent, from their tenants and, fundamentally, to do what they like with their properties.  That sums it up and the approach of the Government is precisely as Deputy Coppinger has described it, namely, this right comes before the right of people to a home.  The point is the house, flat or whatever people are renting is not just abstractly the private property or investment property or whatever of a landlord large or small; fundamentally, it is someone's home.  It is a person's roof over his or her head and is all he or she potentially has between having somewhere to live or being forced, like thousands of people, into couch surfing, living in a car or a van or into emergency homeless accommodation.  That is what it is; it is the right of people to a home and, fundamentally, the inability or unwillingness of the Government to come up with legislation that significantly shifts the balance in favour of tenants as opposed to landlords, which actually constitutes rent control and not just this rent certainty that merely is certainty one's rent will rise every couple of years, and relates to the fact that it prioritises, as do most interpretations of the Constitution, the right of landlords to their private property over the right of people to a home.  That fundamentally is the issue.  It is entirely reasonable, as our amendments propose, to place an additional burden on landlords to prove that unless they sell the property, they would suffer an unreasonable financial hardship.  This is entirely reasonable when compared with the hardship that will be faced by people who are forced to leave a home and potentially are forced into homelessness.  It speaks volumes about the approach of the Government and all the establishment parties that they consider that kind of burden on a landlord to be unreasonable and to be an infringement of a landlord's rights.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.141" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/956" speakername="Mick Wallace" time="11:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200016#O00400"><p>I revert to the point of the 28 days or to the provision that someone who has been in a property for eight years or more will be obliged to give 112 days' notice to the landlord.  This strikes me as a provision that has not been thought out because it does not really make sense.  For example, someone who has been in a property for eight years or more may lose his or her job.  The employer is only obliged to give that person a month's notice and he or she must move on to seek another job.  It is pretty draconian that such people would be obliged to pay the rent for three and a half months when they may be obliged to leave the county or the country to find a job.  The proposed reduction to 28 days definitely is worth considering and I do not perceive the merit for the landlord.  I am not one who thinks all landlords should be hung, drawn and quartered and run out of the country as I live in the real world but I believe the Minister of State should reconsider this issue.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.142" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1022" speakername="Dessie Ellis" time="11:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200016#O00500"><p>I agree with the points made by some colleagues regarding the landlords when a tenant is giving notice.  I believe the provision that a tenant of eight years and more must give 112 days' notice is absolutely mad.</p><p>Tenants have many commitments.  They may have lost their jobs.  They may have to go somewhere else, including abroad.  There might be a death in the family or other reasons.  In this context this provision is crazy.</p> <p> With RAS we have had people tied to contracts for three or four years.  Landlords have then looked to get those properties back.  They have given excuses that it is a family home and they need to go back into the home, etc.  They should be required to supply strong proof.  The Minister of State has spoken about imposing penalties and requiring proof.  However, if they do not do what they said they would do, we need to be very tough on the consequences.  We need to have very strong proof from the landlord that it will happen.  We have all come across people who have been on RAS and thinking that they were set for another two or three years when, all of a sudden, they are put out.  Of course they are given notice but that is not good enough in many cases.  Penalties need to be much stronger.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.144" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1092" speakername="Paudie Coffey" time="11:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200017#P00200"><p>This legislation is being introduced to provide more certainty until the supply of social and private housing increases.  It is to intervene in a market that is totally dysfunctional and one in which we do not have enough houses to meet the demand.  That is recognised.  The social housing programme and Construction 2020 are ambitious programmes that will reap the benefits once construction starts to operate normally and supply improves.</p>  <p>  The legislation is being introduced to bring certainty and sustain tenancies, as Deputies have called for.  It can only be introduced in a fair and balanced way.  We cannot afford to have unbalanced interventions that would cause landlords to leave the market.  Regardless of whether we like landlords, we are very dependent on them given the current state of housing.</p>  <p>  I acknowledge what Deputy Wallace said.  It is not right to blacken all landlords.  Many landlords are ordinary people who took out a mortgage, perhaps as a nest egg or pension, and are struggling to sustain mortgage repayments.  They are also contributing in a very important way to tenancy sustainment.  Whatever legislation we introduce must be fair and balanced.  We believe this legislation is fair and balanced because it gives adequate notice termination periods for landlords and tenants, assisting tenancy sustainment.  If we want to achieve a functioning, sustainable property market, it is important that the legislation be fair for both landlord and tenant.</p>  <p>  Deputy Clare Daly is concerned about the notice periods.  We consider it is balanced and proportionate.  We have extended the notice periods from the 2004 Act.  Deputy Wallace asked where people stand if they lose their job.  Under section 69 of the Act, the landlord or the tenant may agree to a shorter period of notice being given, at the time or after the time the intention to terminate the tenancy has been given.  So there is flexibility within the legislation.  Any landlord who has had tenants for more than eight years will know them very well and will have an excellent relationship.  I believe that is the experience.  Flexibility has been built into the legislation to provide for the case of sudden job loss for people in long tenancies.</p>  <p>  Deputy Coppinger referred to the harassment of tenants, and that may be the case.  However, the existing legislation protects tenants.  There is a tenancy sustainment protocol with which tenants can engage through Threshold.  In addition, any dispute can now be referred to the PRTB.  While it could always be referred to the PRTB, we are enhancing the protections in the legislation.  In cases where the PRTB decision is not adhered to by either party, we are improving access to the courts.  The legislation will allow for quicker access to the courts because this legislation will allow cases to be heard in the District Court where previously it had to go to the Circuit Court.  That will improve the throughput of cases.  I expect we will see fewer disputes because landlords and tenants who do not adhere to their obligations will recognise that disputes will be determined in a fairer and quicker way.</p>  <p>  Threshold is already keeping thousands of people in their homes by intervening to provide full information on tenants' rights under existing legislation.  This legislation will enhance protections and sustain tenancies while supply comes up to normal levels.  We want to see a return to a normal, functioning and sustainable housing market.  That is why these interventions have a sunset clause.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.145" nospeaker="true" time="11:45:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.146" nospeaker="true" time="11:45:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 50:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.147" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1195" speakername="Ruth Coppinger" time="11:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200017#P00500"><p>I move amendment No. 1 to Seanad amendment No. 50:</p><blockquote>In paragraph (d), after &ldquo;declaration&rdquo; to insert &ldquo;referred to in section 35 (as amended by the <i>Residential Tenancies (Amendment) Act 2015</i>)&rdquo;.</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.148" nospeaker="true" time="11:45:00" ><p>Amendment No. 1 to Seanad amendment No. 50 put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.149" nospeaker="true" time="11:45:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 50 agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.150" nospeaker="true" time="11:45:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 51:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.151" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1195" speakername="Ruth Coppinger" time="11:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200017#P00900"><p>I move amendment No. 1 to Seanad amendment No. 51:</p><blockquote>In section 17, in the inserted subsection (8), in the sixth line after &ldquo;dwelling&rdquo; to insert the following &ldquo;and shall also include evidence of that intention to sell, such as correspondence with an estate agent or a prospective buyer or buyers, and shall also include evidence that were the property not to be sold, the landlord would suffer significant financial hardship&rdquo;.</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.152/1" nospeaker="true" time="11:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200018#Q00200"><p>Amendment to amendment put:</p><p>The Committee divided: Tá, 17; Níl, 91.</p><br/><p>Tellers: Tá, Deputies Paul Murphy and Ruth Coppinger; Níl, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Joe Carey.</p></speech>
        <division id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.152/2" nospeaker="true" divdate="2015-12-02" time="11:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200018#Q00200">
            <divisioncount ayes="17" noes="91" />
                <mplist vote="aye">
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1066" vote="aye">Gerry Adams</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" vote="aye">Richard Boyd Barrett</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1083" vote="aye">Michael Colreavy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1195" vote="aye">Ruth Coppinger</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1037" vote="aye">Se&aacute;n Crowe</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1022" vote="aye">Dessie Ellis</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1047" vote="aye">Martin Ferris</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/960" vote="aye">S&eacute;amus Healy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/998" vote="aye">P&aacute;draig MacLochlainn</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1008" vote="aye">Mary Lou McDonald</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1017" vote="aye">Finian McGrath</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/981" vote="aye">Sandra McLellan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1197" vote="aye">Paul Murphy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/969" vote="aye">Caoimhgh&iacute;n &Oacute; Caol&aacute;in</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1028" vote="aye">Aengus &Oacute; Snodaigh</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1001" vote="aye">Thomas Pringle</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1080" vote="aye">Peadar T&oacute;ib&iacute;n</mpname>
                </mplist>
                <mplist vote="no">
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1199" vote="no">Bobby Aylward</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1062" vote="no">James Bannon</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/974" vote="no">Pat Breen</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1079" vote="no">Ray Butler</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/989" vote="no">Jerry Buttimer</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1029" vote="no">Catherine Byrne</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1071" vote="no">Dara Calleary</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1042" vote="no">Ciar&aacute;n Cannon</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/975" vote="no">Joe Carey</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1092" vote="no">Paudie Coffey</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1193" vote="no">Joan Collins</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1057" vote="no">Niall Collins</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1031" vote="no">Michael Conaghan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1093" vote="no">Ciara Conway</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1087" vote="no">Noel Coonan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1006" vote="no">Joe Costello</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1101" vote="no">Barry Cowen</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/986" vote="no">Michael Creed</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1192" vote="no">Clare Daly</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/994" vote="no">Jim Daly</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1091" vote="no">John Deasy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1046" vote="no">Jimmy Deenihan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1075" vote="no">Regina Doherty</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/976" vote="no">Timmy Dooley</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1011" vote="no">Robert Dowds</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/957" vote="no">Bernard Durkan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1078" vote="no">Damien English</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1014" vote="no">Alan Farrell</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1198" vote="no">Michael Fitzmaurice</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1055" vote="no">Charles Flanagan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1050" vote="no">Tom Fleming</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1108" vote="no">Noel Grealish</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1051" vote="no">Brendan Griffin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1094" vote="no">John Halligan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1076" vote="no">Dominic Hannigan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/995" vote="no">Noel Harrington</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1106" vote="no">Simon Harris</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1049" vote="no">Michael Healy-Rae</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/949" vote="no">Martin Heydon</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1097" vote="no">Brendan Howlin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/973" vote="no">Heather Humphreys</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1012" vote="no">Derek Keating</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1188" vote="no">Colm Keaveney</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/983" vote="no">Billy Kelleher</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" vote="no">Enda Kenny</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1021" vote="no">Se&aacute;n Kenny</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1040" vote="no">Michael Kitt</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1110" vote="no">Se&aacute;n Kyne</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/982" vote="no">Kathleen Lynch</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1023" vote="no">John Lyons</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/996" vote="no">Michael McCarthy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1180" vote="no">Helen McEntee</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1000" vote="no">Dinny McGinley</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1090" vote="no">Mattie McGrath</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/993" vote="no">Michael McGrath</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/965" vote="no">John McGuinness</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/997" vote="no">Joe McHugh</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1082" vote="no">Tony McLoughlin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/977" vote="no">Michael McNamara</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/992" vote="no">Miche&aacute;l Martin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1026" vote="no">Olivia Mitchell</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1004" vote="no">Mary Mitchell O'Connor</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/987" vote="no">Michael Moynihan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1070" vote="no">Michelle Mulherin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1202" vote="no">Catherine Murphy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/985" vote="no">Dara Murphy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1177" vote="no">Denis Naughten</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1056" vote="no">Dan Neville</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1045" vote="no">Derek Nolan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1044" vote="no">&Eacute;amon &Oacute; Cu&iacute;v</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1054" vote="no">Se&aacute;n &Oacute; Feargha&iacute;l</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1058" vote="no">Patrick O'Donovan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1069" vote="no">Fergus O'Dowd</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1073" vote="no">John O'Mahony</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/971" vote="no">Joe O'Reilly</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1005" vote="no">Maureen O'Sullivan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1063" vote="no">Willie Penrose</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/966" vote="no">John Paul Phelan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1035" vote="no">Ruairi Quinn</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/947" vote="no">Pat Rabbitte</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/952" vote="no">James Reilly</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1074" vote="no">Michael Ring</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/953" vote="no">Shane Ross</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1013" vote="no">Brendan  Ryan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1025" vote="no">Alan Shatter</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/970" vote="no">Brendan Smith</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/961" vote="no">Emmet Stagg</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1010" vote="no">Joanna Tuffy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/950" vote="no">Jack Wall</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/956" vote="no">Mick Wallace</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1024" vote="no">Alex White</mpname>
                </mplist>
        </division>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.152/3" nospeaker="true" time="11:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200018#Q00200"><p>Amendment to amendment declared lost.</p></speech>
    <major-heading id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.153" nospeaker="true" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R00100">Leaders' Questions</major-heading>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.154" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R00200"><p>Last Wednesday evening I visited University Hospital Galway where I was briefed comprehensively by representatives of the Saolta group and authorities in the hospital on the enormous challenges facing staff and the pressures under which they were operating and, in particular, the situation in the emergency department.  After the briefing they brought me to see the emergency department at first hand.  The conditions for patients and staff and the circumstances in which they worked made for an appalling vista.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.155" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/977" speakername="Michael McNamara" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R00300"><p>Did the Deputy apologise?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.156" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R00400"><p>More than 250 people a day, on average, attend the emergency department which works out at approximately 62,000 a year, but it was built to cater for 100 a day.  The situation in the paediatric department was shocking.  There were two bays in the corner of a room, children were on the ground crying, parents cramped together and there was no capacity to deal with infection control.  I met the nurses the following day in Galway, those working in the emergency department and those working in the community and elsewhere.  They articulated their fears about patient safety in the emergency department at University Hospital Galway and how the interventions to date had failed.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.157" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/977" speakername="Michael McNamara" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R00500"><p>Did the Deputy tell them that he had commissioned a report when he was Minister?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.158" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R00600"><p>The hospital has a solution to this problem which it has put to the Government.  Fundamentally, it has stated to the Government that it has sought approval to progress to design stage for a replacement emergency department and shell accommodation to replace the existing maternity unit, a 1950s building, but incredibly the Government has not included the project in its health capital programme.  It has rebuffed the proposition from the hospital, sent back the proposal to it and told it to scale it down and engage in another cost benefit analysis.  The Taoiseach has set up task forces.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.159" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/986" speakername="Michael Creed" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R00700"><p>The Deputy set up a few himself.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.160" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R00800"><p>Particularly since it is now the tertiary hospital for the west and north west, as the Taoiseach knows, and the numbers are increasing on an ongoing basis-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.161" speakerid="unknown" error="nomatch" speakername="A Deputy" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R00900"><p>Produce a report on it.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.162" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R01000"><p>-----the very minimum required is a commitment to replace the emergency department.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.163" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R01100"><p>I ask the Deputy to, please, put his question.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.164" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R01200"><p>All of the projects so far in the health sector have been in Dublin.  There is very little being provided outside Dublin in the rest of the country in the health arena.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.165" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1017" speakername="Finian McGrath" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R01300"><p>You have been in power for five years, lads and lassies.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.166" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/976" speakername="Timmy Dooley" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R01400"><p>The Taoiseach is to reopen Roscommon County Hospital.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.167" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1017" speakername="Finian McGrath" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R01500"><p>As those opposite have been in power for five years, they should get over it.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.168" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1087" speakername="Noel Coonan" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R01600"><p>It is only the first five years.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.169" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R01700"><p>Will Deputies, please, take a pill and allow the Taoiseach to reply?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.170" nospeaker="true" time="12:00:00" ><p>(Interruptions).</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.171" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1017" speakername="Finian McGrath" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R01900"><p>A Cheann Comhairle, I am being heckled by Government backbenchers.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.172" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R02000"><p>The emergency department at University College Galway is not fit for purpose in this day and age.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.173" nospeaker="true" time="12:00:00" ><p>(Interruptions).</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.174" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R02100"><p>Will Deputies, please, stay quiet, as we cannot hear the Taoiseach?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.175" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1049" speakername="Michael Healy-Rae" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R02200"><p>We cannot hear him anyway.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.176" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R02300"><p>The staff in the hospital are working under extraordinary conditions.  It is one of the most inadequate facilities in the country and needs to be replaced.  I am not privy to the details of the stage it has reached in its design or architectural planning.  The HSE has to send its service plan to the Minister for Health in the next week or ten days.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.177" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1090" speakername="Mattie McGrath" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R02400"><p>Where is Leo?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.178" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R02500"><p>Silence, please.  What is the Taoiseach saying?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.179" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R02600"><p>It is very necessary that this piece of infrastructure be provided.  As the Deputy is well aware and as he has seen at first hand, University Hospital Galway is a centre of excellence which has an enormous reach in terms of the different medical facilities provided.  I assume the Deputy saw the new building that is under construction and which has been awaited for a very long time.  He is also aware that the capital programme provides for a mid-term review.  I cannot say what stage the design of the replacement unit for the emergency department is at, but I will find out.  I was in the hospital recently, not in the emergency department but to visit a patient.  Clearly, it is a major university teaching hospital, but it is a facility that has served its time and in which staff are working under extraordinary pressure.  I accept that the emergency department has to be replaced.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.180" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1090" speakername="Mattie McGrath" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R02700"><p>Like James Reilly.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.181" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R02800"><p>I accept that it requires approval, design and planning, all of the processes that must be gone through, at the end of which a very substantial sum will be invested to replace it.  I do not object to the point made by Deputy MIche&aacute;l Martin.  The facility needs to be replaced, but we cannot replace it over night.  As the Deputy is well aware from his own experience in this field, such major pieces of infrastructure need to be planned for the future.  The planning regulations, the design of such facilities and the building regulations that apply to the construction of a very modern unit have utterly changed from what they were five or ten years ago.  I do not know at what stage the design is at, but I will make it my business to see that the HSE is informed about the matter.  I would like to think we could progress the project for people from all over the west who use the facilities of University College Hospital Galway, but as the Deputy is well aware, it is not the only piece of infrastructure that needs to be replaced.  If we had had a stronger economy when the Deputy's crowd was firing money left, right and centre, we might now be in a better position, but we have to deal with this challenge also.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.182" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1090" speakername="Mattie McGrath" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R02900"><p>Back to the future again.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.183" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R03000"><p>The bottom line is that the Taoiseach has said he has been to the hospital and that its emergency department is not fit for purpose.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.184" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/977" speakername="Michael McNamara" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R03100"><p>The Deputy did the same in 2002 when he was Minister for Health.  We need to hear again the speech he made to the INMO.  He promised the development of an accident and emergency department.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.185" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R03200"><p>Will the Deputy, please, stay quiet?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.186" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R03300"><p>The bottom line is that the Taoiseach knows and has said the emergency department is not fit for purpose.  He has been to the hospital recently, yet the project has not been included in the health capital plan.  He knows that if provision for the project is not made in the capital plan for the next five years, it will be a further five years beyond before any start will be made on it.  While the hospital has other priorities, it is stating the replacement of its emergency department is number one on its list of priorities.  It has been stating to the Government for quite some time.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.187" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/977" speakername="Michael McNamara" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R03400"><p>This is like a Christmas card.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.188" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R03500"><p>The policy makes it clear that everybody on the western seaboard must go to University Hospital Galway.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.189" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R03600"><p>A question, please.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.190" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R03700"><p>The community nurses I met said people in the community were begging them not to send them to the emergency department in University Hospital Galway because of the conditions there.  It escapes me how the project was not included in the health capital plan.  The Taoiseach has said he does not know at what stage the project is at.  He should know if it is at design stage.  He should know what is going on in the major tertiary hospital for the west.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.191" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1090" speakername="Mattie McGrath" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R03900"><p>Contact Leo.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.192" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R04000"><p>Of course, the Taoiseach should know.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.193" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1092" speakername="Paudie Coffey" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R04100"><p>The Deputy should have known when he was in office.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.194" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200019#R04200"><p>The bottom line is that the project has not been included in the health capital plan and nothing can happen if it is not included in it.</p><p>There is no point saying to the hospital, &quot;Scale it down, we want a lesser plan&quot;-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.196" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1017" speakername="Finian McGrath" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S00200"><p>The Government said that about Beaumont Hospital.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.197" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S00300"><p>-----because the Taoiseach knows what is proposed is essential and should be included in the plan.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.198" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S00400"><p>Sorry, the Deputy is over time.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.199" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S00500"><p>Will he now commit to its inclusion in the capital plan in respect of health?  What I said earlier is correct.  If he looks through the national capital plan-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.200" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S00600"><p>The Deputy should come on.  We are over time.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.201" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S00700"><p>-----there is a distinct discrimination against the regions in terms of the allocation of funding for those projects.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.202" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1106" speakername="Simon Harris" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S00800"><p>Deputy Adams might make the Deputy Minister for Health yet.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.203" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S00900"><p>There are precious few health projects for the western seaboard, including the north west and south west.  The Taoiseach should look at this; he will be surprised by it.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.204" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1106" speakername="Simon Harris" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S01000"><p>Deputy Adams will make the Deputy Minister for Health.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.205" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S01100"><p>When the Deputy had responsibility for this, he said back in 2003 that the crisis was not his responsibility.  I recall it well.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.206" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S01200"><p>I invested heavily in Galway.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.207" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S01300"><p>When the Deputy comes to the House, why does he not ask me if I know what the design status is for Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital or any other hospital around the country?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.208" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/976" speakername="Timmy Dooley" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S01400"><p>The Taoiseach used to be a Deputy for Mayo.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.209" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S01500"><p>I am well aware of the problem in so far as the accident and emergency department in University Hospital Galway is concerned.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.210" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1090" speakername="Mattie McGrath" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S01600"><p>The Taoiseach should get the Minister for Health on the phone.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.211" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S01700"><p>Would the Deputy ever stay quiet?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.212" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S01800"><p>It needs to be replaced and it cannot, and will not, be replaced overnight.  There is a process to be gone through - planning, design, regulations and permission.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.213" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/976" speakername="Timmy Dooley" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S01900"><p>Start the process.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.214" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S02000"><p>The Government is not even allowing it to go to design.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.215" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S02100"><p>When the Deputy comes to the House, he never mentions the 75-bed unit under construction at the moment.  Did he see that?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.216" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/976" speakername="Timmy Dooley" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S02200"><p>That is not the accident and emergency department.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.217" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1101" speakername="Barry Cowen" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S02300"><p>Maybe they have to go to the accident and emergency department first.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.218" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1071" speakername="Dara Calleary" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S02400"><p>Patients are left standing in the chemotherapy department.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.219" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S02500"><p>Perhaps Deputy Martin did not want to see it or comment on it.  He did not comment on the fact that 30 beds are being provided in the old physiotherapy unit, which will be opened in spring 2016.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.220" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/976" speakername="Timmy Dooley" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S02600"><p>We know that.  There is no problem there.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.221" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S02700"><p>Deputy Martin did not mention the fact that 14 additional beds are being provided in Merlin Park hospital.  All of these go to ease the pressure on the emergency department in UHG.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.222" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/976" speakername="Timmy Dooley" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S02800"><p>The Taoiseach is there to solve problems, not to clap himself on the back for the things that are going okay.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.223" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S02900"><p>Would Members mind staying quiet and listening to the reply?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.224" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S03000"><p>Believe me-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.225" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/983" speakername="Billy Kelleher" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S03100"><p>We cannot believe the Taoiseach after Roscommon.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.226" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S03200"><p>-----the Health Service Executive has a responsibility to send its service plan to the Minister for Health.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.227" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S03300"><p>The Taoiseach closed Roscommon hospital so people have to go into Galway, which cannot cope.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.228" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/983" speakername="Billy Kelleher" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S03400"><p>The Taoiseach made a solemn promise.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.229" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S03500"><p>I assume that if this project were to be shovel ready or ready to go, it would have been included.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.230" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S03600"><p>All they want is to go to design stage and the Taoiseach has refused.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.231" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/976" speakername="Timmy Dooley" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S03700"><p>It will never be shovel ready the way the Government is going on.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.232" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S03800"><p>When Deputy Martin met the nurses and every other member of the medical personnel there, did they explain to him what stage of the design programme this is?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.233" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S03900"><p>Yes.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.234" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S04000"><p>So it was ready to go?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.235" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S04100"><p>They said they sent the design proposal to the Government, which sent it back.  How many more times do I have to say it?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.236" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S04200"><p>The Deputy should resume his seat.  We are now three and a half minutes over time on this question.  Please respect the Chair.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.237" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/976" speakername="Timmy Dooley" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S04300"><p>That is awful.  The Taoiseach is clapping himself on the back for a few beds that he opened in the physiotherapy ward.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.238" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S04400"><p>In that case, the Deputy should follow his own logic.  He visited Castlebar last week and he was welcome.  He attended the Sacred Heart Home.  His representatives there are saying it will never proceed, despite the fact there is &euro;14 million on the table.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.239" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S04500"><p>Will the Taoiseach please resume his seat?  I call Deputy Adams.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.240" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/976" speakername="Timmy Dooley" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S04600"><p>It is a disgrace from a west of Ireland Taoiseach.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.241" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S04700"><p>Will Members please show some respect to the person asking the question and the person replying, no matter what party he or she is in, or none?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.242" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1055" speakername="Charles Flanagan" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S04800"><p>They do not want to hear the reply.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.243" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1066" speakername="Gerry Adams" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S04900"><p>I spoke this morning with Daniel Long who is the father of Orlaith, a little six-week old baby girl who was forced to wait 11 hours in the accident and emergency department of Cork University Hospital for a bed.  Orlaith, with her father and mother, Debbie Looney, was referred to hospital as she was unable to hold her bottle down.  She kept getting sick and she showed signs of dehydration.  She was admitted to the accident and emergency department at 11.20 p.m. on Sunday, 22 November but she only got a bed at 10.30 a.m. the following day.  Is it not an indictment of the Government's stewardship of our health service that a six-week old child and her parents were put through such an ordeal?  Is it not particularly so because such unfairness to citizens like Orlaith is no longer unusual on the Taoiseach's watch?  It is the norm.</p>  <p>  He promised to reform our health service, to end the scandal of patients on trolleys and to end the two-tier system of unequal access to health care.  He also promised free GP care for all, an end to prescription charges and the abolition of the HSE but he has delivered none of this.  In fairness, he never promised universal health care because he is opposed to it and that is why Orlaith ended up on a trolley, that is why 25 out of 29 accident and emergency departments have seen increased overcrowding; and that is why there are delayed discharges, a shortage of home care packages and a lack of nursing home beds.  The Government is responsible for a health service in complete chaos.  Is Orlaith's disturbing case not further evidence that the Government has no intention of adequately resourcing the health service and bringing in universal health care?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.244" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S05000"><p>The Deputy is wrong again.  The Government concluded the Supplementary Estimate for health this morning, which is a serious increase on what was there for the past number of years.  That is all aimed, within the prudent management of the economy, at attempting to provide the best level of service we can for patients.  The Government remains committed to universal health care and the provision of a single tier system.  We introduced free GP care for all those under six and over 70.  The next part of that strategy is to provide free GP care for the children of all working families.  I do not accept the Deputy's assertions at all.</p>  <p>  The point the Deputy made about the little baby is real and I empathise completely with the parents in the case whose child was sent to the hospital by the general practitioner because she was dehydrated.  What can one say about the fears, anxieties and concerns of parents, particularly in respect of a young baby?  CUH is carrying out an investigation into why this child was on a trolley for 11 hours.  I am glad to note little baby, Orlaith, is recovering well at home and making good progress.  That is something everyone will appreciate.  I do not know the reasons the little child was left on a trolley for that length of time.  The hospital management has asked the question and an investigation is being carried out in that regard.</p>  <p>  In general, accident and emergency departments are a priority in dealing with the question of overcrowding, which happens for a variety of reasons, as the Deputy will be well aware.  A total of 450 additional beds are being opened to relieve that pressure.  These are either new beds or ones that were previously closed, with 200 having opened to date and the remainder due to open in the next few weeks before the end of the year.  It is imperative in that regard that all relevant parts of the health service, including acute, community and primary care, make the best use the resources at their disposal in respect of dealing with this particular problem.</p>  <p>  In respect of the question the Deputy raised initially, I am glad the little child is recovering well and I am sorry that she was on a trolley for those hours.  I expect that the management of the hospital will respond to the Minister and the HSE as to why that happened.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.245" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1066" speakername="Gerry Adams" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S05100"><p>I have no doubt the Taoiseach is sorry but that is not good enough.  He is five years in that seat as the Taoiseach of a Government which made all these promises.  This morning, I also spoke to Denise Tuohy who has been told that she has to pay &euro;75 a day for being on a trolley in Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital, Drogheda.  Denise spent four days in hospital.  To make matters worse, her son, Jake, has a rare genetic condition and he does not have a medical card.  He is five years old but he only has a GP visit card.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.246" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1090" speakername="Mattie McGrath" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S05200"><p>What about the free care for those under six?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.247" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1066" speakername="Gerry Adams" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S05300"><p>Denise now owes &euro;700 in medical bills.  She told me that the nurses were fabulous but the system is letting patients down and she is right.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.248" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S05400"><p>A question, please.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.249" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1066" speakername="Gerry Adams" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S05500"><p>I will not be long.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.250" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S05600"><p>I thank the Deputy.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.251" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1066" speakername="Gerry Adams" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S05700"><p>She says she feels degraded.  She has worked all her life and she has paid taxes.  She says this is not about her; it is about older people and youngsters like her son, Jake.  She is being released from hospital this afternoon and then she has to bring her son to the doctor.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.252" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S05800"><p>A question, please.  We are over time.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.253" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1066" speakername="Gerry Adams" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S05900"><p>If she has to bring him to the hospital, she will have to pay again and the Taoiseach is responsible for this.  He is responsible for a health service in chaos and there is no point in him saying he is sorry.  The fact is he is in charge and the reality is that the Government, led by Fine Gael and supported by the Labour Party-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.254" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S06000"><p>Will the Deputy put his question?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.255" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1066" speakername="Gerry Adams" time="12:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200020#S06100"><p>-----will not adequately resource our hospitals because they do not believe in a public health model.  Is this not why accident and emergency department overcrowding is getting worse?</p><p>Is this not why citizens, including Denise, her son Jake and a little baby like Orlaith, are treated like second class citizens in the Taoiseach's two-tier health service?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.257" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T00200"><p>If the Deputy had said sorry himself a few times in the past, it might have helped matters as well.  Of course, Deputy Adams does not use the Irish public health service in the first place.  The case that the Deputy mentioned, of the good lady-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.258" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1037" speakername="Se&aacute;n Crowe" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T00300"><p>How does the Taoiseach know that?  How does he know it?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.259" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1092" speakername="Paudie Coffey" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T00400"><p>We all know that.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.260" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/998" speakername="P&aacute;draig MacLochlainn" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T00500"><p>Cheap shots rather than dealing with the issues.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.261" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T00600"><p>The Taoiseach can answer the question himself.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.262" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1106" speakername="Simon Harris" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T00700"><p>Does the health service get any funding in America?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.263" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1075" speakername="Regina Doherty" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T00800"><p>It is $500 a plate for dinner.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.264" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T00900"><p>The good lady who was admitted to the hospital and was on a trolley in the emergency department was then-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.265" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/998" speakername="P&aacute;draig MacLochlainn" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T01000"><p>This is from a Fine Gael Deputy</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.266" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1066" speakername="Gerry Adams" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T01100"><p>I cannot hear the Taoiseach.  He should speak up, please.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.267" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T01200"><p>Please stay quiet until we hear the reply.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.268" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T01300"><p>I do not take directions from Deputy Adams, but if he gets his people to hold their silence, he might hear.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.269" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1066" speakername="Gerry Adams" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T01400"><p>I cannot hear the Taoiseach.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.270" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T01500"><p>Deputy Adams, it was your own Deputy in the back making noise.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.271" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1066" speakername="Gerry Adams" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T01600"><p>The Taoiseach was mumbling.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.272" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T01700"><p>The Taoiseach is not mumbling at all.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.273" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T01800"><p>Would you please stay quiet.  Thank you.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.274" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T01900"><p>The Taoiseach is not mumbling and he does not take directions from the leader of Sinn F&eacute;in.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.275" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1066" speakername="Gerry Adams" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T02000"><p>Will the Taoiseach say that again?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.276" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T02100"><p>If Deputy Adams cannot hear, he should please ask his Deputies behind him to hold their silence.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.277" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1066" speakername="Gerry Adams" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T02200"><p>Will the Taoiseach do the same?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.278" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T02300"><p>The good lady-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.279" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1066" speakername="Gerry Adams" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T02400"><p>Will the Taoiseach answer the question?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.280" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T02500"><p>Would you please stay quiet.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.281" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T02600"><p>The good lady who was admitted to hospital on a trolley in the emergency Department was later removed to a ward and she was on a trolley in that ward.  The hospital has waived the charge against that period.  I do not know the circumstances of her son, Jake, but there is a very flexible system for application for medical cards where difficulties are encountered by any person-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.282" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1049" speakername="Michael Healy-Rae" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T02700"><p>God help us.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.283" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T02800"><p>-----whether they are a child or not.  I expect that can be reflected in -----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.284" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1028" speakername="Aengus &Oacute; Snodaigh" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T02900"><p>A flexible system?  It is flexible in refusing.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.285" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T03000"><p>-----the system that applies there.  If Deputy Adams thinks it is not appropriate to say sorry in these cases, then I disagree with him.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.286" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1066" speakername="Gerry Adams" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T03100"><p>The Taoiseach has to say more than sorry; he has to fix it.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.287" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T03200"><p>Perhaps if he had said it himself a few times in the past it might have helped us.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.288" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T03300"><p>I call on Deputy Fitzmaurice.  There is a telephone interfering somewhere.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.289" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1198" speakername="Michael Fitzmaurice" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T03400"><p>Media reports this morning-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.290" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1087" speakername="Noel Coonan" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T03500"><p>Ming is coming home for Christmas</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.291" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1198" speakername="Michael Fitzmaurice" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T03600"><p>Media reports this morning-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.292" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T03700"><p>Okay, Deputy.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.293" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1198" speakername="Michael Fitzmaurice" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T03800"><p>Media reports this morning are saying that &euro;300 million in additional tax revenue will be announced this evening, which is welcome.  The Taoiseach and the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation have travelled around the country announcing the number of jobs that will be created over the coming years.  They have gone to eight regions.  One region, which includes the second biggest county in Ireland, the third biggest county, which is the Taoiseach's home county, and Roscommon, have sadly, in the period between 2013 and 2015, lost 4,000 jobs.  Last week in the High Court, a High Court judge said that mental health services in Roscommon were in disarray.  In 2011, the Government took the TEN-T funding from the west, when it was  reallocated to Foynes and Cork.  Two months ago, the Minister announced on RTE "Six One News"  that a few towns in the west would have broadband by Christmas, but that is another broken promise.</p>  <p>  Last week, the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government announced that rates would be dropped for utilities companies, yet SMEs will get no break.  What has gone wrong?  Will the Taoiseach set up a task force or get his Ministers to concentrate on the counties in the west that are in difficulty at the moment?  The Taoiseach might have forgotten, but he is from the west.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.294" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T03900"><p>That comment is beneath the Deputy as a fellow west of Ireland man.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.295" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1057" speakername="Niall Collins" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T04000"><p>The Taoiseach is well able to give it.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.296" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T04100"><p>If that is the extent of Deputy Fitzmaurice's vision, I do not share his view on the range of questions he has asked.  It is an indication of the credit that must go to the Irish people - north, south, east and west - for the way they have accepted the challenges of the mess that we inherited.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.297" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1049" speakername="Michael Healy-Rae" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T04200"><p>The Taoiseach was going to get the Army in.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.298" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T04300"><p>The fact that the Minister for Finance is in a position to report income of &euro;3 billion before the end of November from corporate taxes and VAT, which is more than was projected for the entire year, speaks for itself.  In that regard, the opportunity to further reduce the national debt is in the Deputy's interest and is everybody's interest.</p>  <p>  I want to make it clear that simply because we happen to be heading towards the end of the lifetime of this Government and that an election will take place in the spring, the Government will continue-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.299" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1049" speakername="Michael Healy-Rae" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T04400"><p>I thought we were going to have it in November.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.300" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T04500"><p>-----to deliberately manage the financial affairs of this country in a prudent and competent fashion.  Simply because an election is on the way does not mean that there will be a rash of endless promises that cannot be-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.301" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1049" speakername="Michael Healy-Rae" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T04600"><p>The Taoiseach cannot make any more promises.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.302" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T04700"><p>-----that cannot be met.  Deputy Fitzmaurice will note that the Chairman of the Revenue Commissioners has indicated that just &euro;300 million of that &euro;3 billion needs to be considered separately and that the remainder is sustainable and will continue for the future.</p>  <p>  The Deputy has referred to various important matters, such as TEN-T funding, broadband and rates.  The Government changed the legislation to allow for the ESB to partner with a service supplier, Vodafone, the company called Siro, which is now in direct competition with Eir, formerly Eircom, to provide broadband throughout the country.  The tender for procurement for servicing the area in which the State will have to intervene should be issued by the end of 2015 or very early in 2016.  As the Deputy knows, one can check on any of the maps for indications of when broadband will be available.</p>  <p>  Deputy Fitzmaurice is also aware that Apple is investing &euro;1 billion in the Athenry area for data content storage.  I can confirm that the splicing has taken place on the last link of the cable from Shirley, New York, to the west coast of Ireland.  That will improve the broadband capacity immensely in the time ahead.  I pointed out that in the far flung west, &euro;100 million is being invested in a new wood burning power plant which will provide another opportunity for farmers with marginal land to increase their income through the growing of appropriate timber.  </p>  <p>  It is not true to say that SMEs are getting no breaks.  I have just come from a meeting in Newbridge this morning which over 200 people from the business sector attended.  They pointed out various inadequacies in the structure of SMEs in terms of micro loans, access to credit, facilities for training, upskilling and new employment, the JobBridge scheme and the JobsPlus scheme, all of which were discussed by people working in the sector.</p>  <p>  Deputy Fitzmaurice will also note the increase in private and commercial vehicles.  The Government has listened carefully and the 20 rates of tax for commercial vehicles will be reduced to five on 1 January 2016.  Hauliers, in particular, appreciate the reduction from over &euro;5,000 to a maximum of &euro;900 in tax for major trucks.  These apply in the west, from where the Deputy comes but perhaps he has not noticed.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.303" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1198" speakername="Michael Fitzmaurice" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T04800"><p>These apply in the west but they also apply in every other part of Ireland.  The Central Statistics Office has released its figures, which I have no reason to doubt and which show that there are 4,000 fewer people working in the three counties to which I referred than there was in 2013.</p>  <p>  The Taoiseach talks about farmers.  We should have someone on an aeroplane to meet the agriculture Minister for in England.  Yesterday, the beef barons of Ireland and England announced that cattle exported from Ireland to England would take &euro;1 per kilogram less.  This has effectively stopped our exports to England.  We should have someone addressing that.</p>  <p>  The fact is that the TEN-T funding for major infrastructural projects, such as Knock Airport in the Taoiseach's county, the ring road in Galway, and a main road from Dublin to Castlebar, which is needed, was stopped by this Government in 2011.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.304" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T04900"><p>The Deputy should ask a question.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.305" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1198" speakername="Michael Fitzmaurice" time="12:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200021#T05000"><p>The facts are that electricity suppliers have gotten the break on the rates.</p><p>Small businesses which pay the rates in each county are struggling but there is nothing there for them.  The Taoiseach himself has said that Galway hospital is in chaos.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.307" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U00200"><p>Come on Deputy.  You are over time.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.308" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1198" speakername="Michael Fitzmaurice" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U00300"><p>A High Court judge has said the mental health services in Roscommon are in chaos.  We know-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.309" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1085" speakername="Frank Feighan" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U00400"><p>They are not in chaos.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.310" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1198" speakername="Michael Fitzmaurice" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U00500"><p>We know the numbers of unemployed.  We know what has happened in the west.  Is the Taoiseach prepared-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.311" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1085" speakername="Frank Feighan" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U00700"><p>It is not in chaos.  Go down and have a look at it.  I was there myself last week.  You should not talk about Roscommon hospital.  It is open for business and better than ever.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.312" nospeaker="true" time="12:30:00" ><p>(Interruptions).</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.313" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1198" speakername="Michael Fitzmaurice" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U00800"><p>Is the Taoiseach prepared to tackle these head on for the benefit of people?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.314" nospeaker="true" time="12:30:00" ><p>(Interruptions).</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.315" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1085" speakername="Frank Feighan" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U01000"><p>Go into Roscommon and have a look at the hospital.  You should sit down.  You are a fool.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.316" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1198" speakername="Michael Fitzmaurice" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U01100"><p>Sit down you.  Your day is over.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.317" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1085" speakername="Frank Feighan" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U01200"><p>You are a fool.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.318" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U01300"><p>Deputy Feighan, sit down.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.319" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1199" speakername="Bobby Aylward" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U01400"><p>It is beneath a Member to call someone a fool.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.320" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1085" speakername="Frank Feighan" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U01500"><p>You are a fool.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.321" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1198" speakername="Michael Fitzmaurice" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U01600"><p>Your day is over.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.322" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U01700"><p>Stay quiet Deputy Feighan or I will ask you to leave the Chamber.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.323" nospeaker="true" time="12:30:00" ><p>(Interruptions).</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.324" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1085" speakername="Frank Feighan" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U01900"><p>I am sorry, a Cheann Comhairle.  I just get a bit upset when I hear that kind of talk.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.325" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1090" speakername="Mattie McGrath" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U02000"><p>A Cheann Comhairle, Deputy Feighan called Deputy Fitzmaurice a fool.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.326" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1199" speakername="Bobby Aylward" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U02100"><p>Is it not beneath a Member to call someone a fool across the floor of the House?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.327" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U02200"><p>There is too much grandstanding.  Members are not impressing anybody.  We are all long enough around here.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.328" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/983" speakername="Billy Kelleher" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U02300"><p>There must be an election in the offing.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.329" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U02400"><p>Deputy Fitzmaurice comes from County Galway.  The Central Statistics Office figures he quoted also point out that the numbers on the live register in Galway have reduced from 25,389 to 15,677, a drop of 40% since 2010, the lowest in seven years.  Maybe Deputy Fitzmaurice has not noticed-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.330" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1198" speakername="Michael Fitzmaurice" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U02500"><p>Is the Taoiseach telling me that there are fewer people working?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.331" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U02600"><p>Stay quiet Deputy.  You have had your say.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.332" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U02700"><p>Maybe Deputy Fitzmaurice-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.333" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1198" speakername="Michael Fitzmaurice" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U02800"><p>I am telling the Taoiseach the facts.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.334" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1058" speakername="Patrick O'Donovan" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U02850"><p>Deputy Fitzmaurice had his chance to speak.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.335" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1091" speakername="John Deasy" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U02900"><p>Frankie, get up again.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.336" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U03000"><p>Deputy Fitzmaurice, would you ever stay quiet and listen to the answer?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.337" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1198" speakername="Michael Fitzmaurice" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U03100"><p>I only want to give him the facts.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.338" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U03200"><p>Will you stay quiet?  You had your say.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.339" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U03300"><p>I will repeat the facts for Deputy Fitzmaurice.  At the end of October, the numbers on the live register in Galway were 15,677, down from 25,389, a drop of 40% in seven years.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.340" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1198" speakername="Michael Fitzmaurice" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U03400"><p>What about the statistics of 181,000, down from 185,000?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.341" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U03500"><p>Maybe he has not noticed the &euro;600 million investment in the motorway from Gort to Tuam.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.342" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1198" speakername="Michael Fitzmaurice" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U03600"><p>What about Roscommon and Mayo?  They are in the west as well.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.343" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U03700"><p>Maybe he has not noticed the capital programme which includes several major infrastructure projects for his native county and the west.  The Government has made its decisions in respect of broadband.  We expect those companies to measure up and provide proper broadband services for the entire country, not just for the west.</p>  <p>  I also point out to Deputy Fitzmaurice that for the first time, the Government ring-fenced moneys for mental health services.  As Deputy Feighan pointed out, the situation is nothing like Deputy Fitzmaurice described.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.344" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1198" speakername="Michael Fitzmaurice" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U03800"><p>The High Court judge is wrong then.</p></speech>
    <major-heading id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.345" nospeaker="true" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U03900">Order of Business</major-heading>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.346" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U04000"><p>It is proposed to take No. 1, Residential Tenancies (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2012 - amendments from the Seanad (resumed); No. 34, Health Insurance (Amendment) Bill 2015 - Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; No. 35, Harbours Bill 2015 - Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; and No. 36, Equality (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2013 [Seanad] - Committee, Report and Final Stages.</p><p>It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that: (1) the D&aacute;il shall sit later than 9 p.m. tonight and shall adjourn on the conclusion of Private Members&rsquo; business; (2) the proceedings on No. 1 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 4.30 p.m. today and any amendments from the Seanad not disposed of shall be decided by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments to the Seanad amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government; (3) Report and Final Stages of No. 34 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 6 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Health; (4) Report and Final Stages of No. 35 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 7.30 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport; (5) Committee, Report and Final Stages of No. 36 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 9 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Justice and Equality; and (6) Private Members&rsquo; business which shall be No. 71, Rent Certainty and Prevention of Homelessness Bill 2015 - Second Stage (resumed), shall be taken on the conclusion of No. 36 and shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 90 minutes.</p><p>Tomorrow&rsquo;s business after Oral Questions shall be No. 2, Climate Action and Low Carbon Development Bill 2015 - amendments from the Seanad; No. 37, Dublin Docklands Development Authority (Dissolution) Bill 2015 - Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; and No. 38, Child Care (Amendment) Bill 2015 [<i>Seanad</i>] - Committee, Report and Final Stages.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.347" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U04100"><p>There are six proposals to be put to the House.  Is the proposal for the late sitting agreed to?  Agreed.</p><p>Is the proposal for dealing with No.1, Residential Tenancies (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2012, amendments from the Seanad, agreed to?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.348" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U04200"><p>No, it is not agreed.  We have objected strongly to the proposals from the Government on today&rsquo;s business.  Yesterday on Question Time, when I put it to the Taoiseach, he, unbelievably, said no guillotines would be put to the House today.  It brings to mind what I said recently about what the Taoiseach says.  Language means nothing to him.  With a straight face he told us yesterday that there would be no guillotines today.  I said to him yesterday that our Whip had received correspondence from the Government Chief Whip to the effect that all legislation would be guillotined today.  It is unacceptable.</p>  <p>  The D&aacute;il only met for five days in September, ten in October.  We are now in a scenario where, in the last week or two before Christmas, everything will be rammed through without debate.  On the residential tenancies Bill and the health insurance Bill-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.349" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1051" speakername="Brendan Griffin" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U04300"><p>Would Fianna F&aacute;il and Sinn F&eacute;in do it differently if they were in power together?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.350" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U04400"><p>There will be no debate on the health insurance Bill, despite the fact the Government has abandoned universal health insurance, the cornerstone of its health policy.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.351" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U04500"><p>We are just dealing with No. 1.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.352" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U04600"><p>Yes, but it will be the same points for Nos. 3 to 6, inclusive.</p>  <p>  It is unacceptable the Taoiseach is ramming all of this legislation, four Bills, through in the one day, along with a Private Members&rsquo; Bill and other business of the House.  It makes a mockery of the House.  It demeans the House and illustrates the ongoing lack of any respect the Executive has for D&aacute;il &Eacute;ireann.  It is very shoddy and typical of how the Government from day one abandoned its commitment and promise of a democratic revolution.  It has been anything but that.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.353" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/957" speakername="Bernard Durkan" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U04700"><p>There was a democratic revolution.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.354" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1066" speakername="Gerry Adams" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U04800"><p>The residential tenancies Bill is critically important legislation, dealing with aspects of the current housing crisis.  It should not be guillotined.  Sinn F&eacute;in is opposed in principle to the use of the guillotine.  The Taoiseach is allowing one hour and a half for each of these Bills.  It may be that the time will not be used and that is fair enough.  However, what the Government is doing is pushing through legislation before the recess which it should have dealt with over the past period.  We object strongly to the guillotining of these four Bills and will be calling for a vote on No. 1.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.355" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U04900"><p>Last week, we had a situation where Opposition Members were prepared to accept the times set out if we dropped a guillotine.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.356" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U05000"><p>No.  These are new proposals.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.357" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U05100"><p>They did.  The Opposition said if we abide by that time, they would not push it to a vote.  I am offering the same today, if Deputy Martin is anxious, as we all are, to deal with housing matters, health insurance, the harbours Bill and the equality Bill.  The Deputy can play games if he wants.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.358" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U05200"><p>I am not playing games.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.359" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U05300"><p>He can use all the words he likes about respect, integrity and all the rest of it.  He is now into a position where he wants to obstruct these Bills.</p>  <p>  Deputy Adams&rsquo;s deputy leader sat on the other side of the House for four hours on one occasion, holding up the business of the House.  During the 45 months the Fianna F&aacute;il-Green Party-Progressive Democrats Government was in office, the Oireachtas sat for 349 days, an average of 93 days a year.  This Government has been in office 56 months, in which the D&aacute;il has sat 576 days, an average of 124 days a year.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.360" speakerid="unknown" error="nomatch" speakername="Deputies" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U05400"><p>On Fridays.  Come off it.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.361" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U05500"><p>Friday sittings with only ten members in the Chamber.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.362" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200022#U05600"><p>Deputies opposite might not like it but those are the facts.  We have important legislation to deal with, such as bankruptcy, legal services and other matters, before the D&aacute;il rises for the Christmas recess.  As I said before, if Deputy Martin is prepared to accept the times set out here and finish the business within that time, then there is no need to have a vote.  It is important that these-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.363" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:40:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200023#V00100"><p>These are guillotines.  Do not dress them up as anything else.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.364" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:40:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200023#V00200"><p>All Deputy Martin is interested in is being able to say the D&aacute;il is obstructing business and cutting people short.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.365" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1090" speakername="Mattie McGrath" time="12:40:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200023#V00300"><p>It is.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.366" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:40:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200023#V00400"><p>It is.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.367" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:40:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200023#V00500"><p>Does Deputy Martin want to go all night for the remainder of the session?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.368" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:40:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200023#V00600"><p>The Government has managed it badly.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.369" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:40:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200023#V00700"><p>The Government has important legislation to get through.  Deputy Martin said he would be constructive and would support necessary Bills.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.370" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:40:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200023#V00800"><p>No, we did not.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.371" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:40:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200023#V00900"><p>Here is an indication of four of them but all Deputy Martin wants to do now is delay matters by calling for a vote on the proposed guillotine.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.372" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/983" speakername="Billy Kelleher" time="12:40:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200023#V01000"><p>It is called democracy.  It is called parliamentary democracy.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.373" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1051" speakername="Brendan Griffin" time="12:40:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200023#V01100"><p>The last time Fianna F&aacute;il was up all night it did not do a great job.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.374" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:40:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200023#V01200"><p>Does the Taoiseach not think the Opposition should be able to vote?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.375" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:40:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200023#V01300"><p>Deputy Martin should do as he did last week and accept the timescale set out here.  He can end the votes and stop wasting time but that is not his intention.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.376" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:40:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200023#V01400"><p>Is the Taoiseach saying the Opposition should not be allowed vote?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.377" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1092" speakername="Paudie Coffey" time="12:40:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200023#V01500"><p>Deputy Martin is playing games.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.378" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" speakername="Enda Kenny" time="12:40:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200023#V01600"><p>He is now lined up with Sinn F&eacute;in.  Perhaps he is cosying up with Sinn F&eacute;in because he wants something from it.  I do not know.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.379" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:40:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200023#V01700"><p>Is the Taoiseach saying we should not vote?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.380" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1193" speakername="Joan Collins" time="12:40:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200023#V01800"><p>That we are only a nuisance?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.381" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/992" speakername="Miche&aacute;l Martin" time="12:40:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200023#V01900"><p>Perhaps the Taoiseach should abolish the D&aacute;il altogether.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.382/1" nospeaker="true" time="12:40:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200023#V01950"><p>Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with No. 1 be agreed to."</p><p>The Dáil divided: Tá, 68; Níl, 46.</p><br/><p>Tellers: Tá, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Joe Carey; Níl, Deputies Aengus Ó Snodaigh and Seán Ó Fearghaíl.</p></speech>
        <division id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.382/2" nospeaker="true" divdate="2015-12-02" time="12:40:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200023#V01950">
            <divisioncount ayes="68" noes="46" />
                <mplist vote="aye">
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1062" vote="aye">James Bannon</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/974" vote="aye">Pat Breen</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1079" vote="aye">Ray Butler</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/989" vote="aye">Jerry Buttimer</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1029" vote="aye">Catherine Byrne</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1030" vote="aye">Eric Byrne</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1042" vote="aye">Ciar&aacute;n Cannon</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/975" vote="aye">Joe Carey</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1092" vote="aye">Paudie Coffey</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1031" vote="aye">Michael Conaghan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1041" vote="aye">Paul Connaughton</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1093" vote="aye">Ciara Conway</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1087" vote="aye">Noel Coonan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1099" vote="aye">Marcella Corcoran Kennedy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1006" vote="aye">Joe Costello</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/986" vote="aye">Michael Creed</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1091" vote="aye">John Deasy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1046" vote="aye">Jimmy Deenihan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/968" vote="aye">Pat Deering</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1075" vote="aye">Regina Doherty</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1011" vote="aye">Robert Dowds</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/957" vote="aye">Bernard Durkan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1078" vote="aye">Damien English</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1014" vote="aye">Alan Farrell</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1085" vote="aye">Frank Feighan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1055" vote="aye">Charles Flanagan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1051" vote="aye">Brendan Griffin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1076" vote="aye">Dominic Hannigan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/995" vote="aye">Noel Harrington</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1106" vote="aye">Simon Harris</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/949" vote="aye">Martin Heydon</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/973" vote="aye">Heather Humphreys</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1012" vote="aye">Derek Keating</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" vote="aye">Enda Kenny</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1021" vote="aye">Se&aacute;n Kenny</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1110" vote="aye">Se&aacute;n Kyne</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1053" vote="aye">Anthony Lawlor</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/982" vote="aye">Kathleen Lynch</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/996" vote="aye">Michael McCarthy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1180" vote="aye">Helen McEntee</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1000" vote="aye">Dinny McGinley</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/997" vote="aye">Joe McHugh</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1082" vote="aye">Tony McLoughlin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/977" vote="aye">Michael McNamara</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1026" vote="aye">Olivia Mitchell</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1004" vote="aye">Mary Mitchell O'Connor</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1070" vote="aye">Michelle Mulherin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/985" vote="aye">Dara Murphy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1056" vote="aye">Dan Neville</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1045" vote="aye">Derek Nolan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1018" vote="aye">Aodh&aacute;n &Oacute; R&iacute;ord&aacute;in</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1058" vote="aye">Patrick O'Donovan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1069" vote="aye">Fergus O'Dowd</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1073" vote="aye">John O'Mahony</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/971" vote="aye">Joe O'Reilly</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1063" vote="aye">Willie Penrose</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1081" vote="aye">John Perry</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/947" vote="aye">Pat Rabbitte</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/952" vote="aye">James Reilly</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1074" vote="aye">Michael Ring</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1013" vote="aye">Brendan  Ryan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1025" vote="aye">Alan Shatter</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1048" vote="aye">Arthur Spring</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/961" vote="aye">Emmet Stagg</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1010" vote="aye">Joanna Tuffy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1095" vote="aye">Liam Twomey</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/950" vote="aye">Jack Wall</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1024" vote="aye">Alex White</mpname>
                </mplist>
                <mplist vote="no">
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1066" vote="no">Gerry Adams</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1199" vote="no">Bobby Aylward</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" vote="no">Richard Boyd Barrett</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1096" vote="no">John Browne</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1071" vote="no">Dara Calleary</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1193" vote="no">Joan Collins</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1057" vote="no">Niall Collins</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1083" vote="no">Michael Colreavy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1195" vote="no">Ruth Coppinger</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1101" vote="no">Barry Cowen</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1037" vote="no">Se&aacute;n Crowe</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/976" vote="no">Timmy Dooley</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1022" vote="no">Dessie Ellis</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1047" vote="no">Martin Ferris</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1198" vote="no">Michael Fitzmaurice</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1206" vote="no">Terence Flanagan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1100" vote="no">Se&aacute;n Fleming</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1050" vote="no">Tom Fleming</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1108" vote="no">Noel Grealish</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1094" vote="no">John Halligan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/960" vote="no">S&eacute;amus Healy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1049" vote="no">Michael Healy-Rae</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/983" vote="no">Billy Kelleher</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1040" vote="no">Michael Kitt</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/998" vote="no">P&aacute;draig MacLochlainn</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1017" vote="no">Finian McGrath</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1090" vote="no">Mattie McGrath</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/993" vote="no">Michael McGrath</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/965" vote="no">John McGuinness</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/981" vote="no">Sandra McLellan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/992" vote="no">Miche&aacute;l Martin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1183" vote="no">Peter Mathews</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/987" vote="no">Michael Moynihan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1202" vote="no">Catherine Murphy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1197" vote="no">Paul Murphy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1177" vote="no">Denis Naughten</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/969" vote="no">Caoimhgh&iacute;n &Oacute; Caol&aacute;in</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1054" vote="no">Se&aacute;n &Oacute; Feargha&iacute;l</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1028" vote="no">Aengus &Oacute; Snodaigh</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1059" vote="no">Willie O'Dea</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1001" vote="no">Thomas Pringle</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/953" vote="no">Shane Ross</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1203" vote="no">R&oacute;is&iacute;n Shortall</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1102" vote="no">Brian Stanley</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1207" vote="no">Billy Timmins</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1080" vote="no">Peadar T&oacute;ib&iacute;n</mpname>
                </mplist>
        </division>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.382/3" nospeaker="true" time="12:40:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200023#V01950"><p>Question declared carried.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.383" nospeaker="true" time="12:50:00" ><p>Question, &quot;That the proposals for dealing with No. 34, Health Insurance (Amendment) Bill 2015 - Order for Report Stage and Report and Final Stages, be agreed to,&quot; put and declared carried.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.384/1" nospeaker="true" time="12:50:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200024#W00300"><p>Question put: "That the proposals for dealing with No. 35, Harbours Bill 2015 - Order for Report Stage and Report and Final Stages, be agreed to."</p><p>The Dáil divided: Tá, 66; Níl, 44.</p><br/><p>Tellers: Tá, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Joe Carey; Níl, Deputies Aengus Ó Snodaigh and Seán Ó Fearghaíl.</p></speech>
        <division id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.384/2" nospeaker="true" divdate="2015-12-02" time="12:50:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200024#W00300">
            <divisioncount ayes="66" noes="44" />
                <mplist vote="aye">
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1062" vote="aye">James Bannon</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/974" vote="aye">Pat Breen</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1079" vote="aye">Ray Butler</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/989" vote="aye">Jerry Buttimer</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1029" vote="aye">Catherine Byrne</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1042" vote="aye">Ciar&aacute;n Cannon</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/975" vote="aye">Joe Carey</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1092" vote="aye">Paudie Coffey</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1031" vote="aye">Michael Conaghan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1041" vote="aye">Paul Connaughton</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1093" vote="aye">Ciara Conway</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1087" vote="aye">Noel Coonan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1099" vote="aye">Marcella Corcoran Kennedy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1006" vote="aye">Joe Costello</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/986" vote="aye">Michael Creed</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1091" vote="aye">John Deasy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1046" vote="aye">Jimmy Deenihan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/968" vote="aye">Pat Deering</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1075" vote="aye">Regina Doherty</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1011" vote="aye">Robert Dowds</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/957" vote="aye">Bernard Durkan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1078" vote="aye">Damien English</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1014" vote="aye">Alan Farrell</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1085" vote="aye">Frank Feighan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1055" vote="aye">Charles Flanagan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1051" vote="aye">Brendan Griffin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1076" vote="aye">Dominic Hannigan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/995" vote="aye">Noel Harrington</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1106" vote="aye">Simon Harris</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/949" vote="aye">Martin Heydon</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/973" vote="aye">Heather Humphreys</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1012" vote="aye">Derek Keating</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" vote="aye">Enda Kenny</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1021" vote="aye">Se&aacute;n Kenny</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1110" vote="aye">Se&aacute;n Kyne</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1053" vote="aye">Anthony Lawlor</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/982" vote="aye">Kathleen Lynch</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/996" vote="aye">Michael McCarthy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1180" vote="aye">Helen McEntee</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1000" vote="aye">Dinny McGinley</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/997" vote="aye">Joe McHugh</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1082" vote="aye">Tony McLoughlin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/977" vote="aye">Michael McNamara</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1026" vote="aye">Olivia Mitchell</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1004" vote="aye">Mary Mitchell O'Connor</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/985" vote="aye">Dara Murphy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1056" vote="aye">Dan Neville</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1045" vote="aye">Derek Nolan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1018" vote="aye">Aodh&aacute;n &Oacute; R&iacute;ord&aacute;in</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1058" vote="aye">Patrick O'Donovan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1069" vote="aye">Fergus O'Dowd</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1073" vote="aye">John O'Mahony</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/971" vote="aye">Joe O'Reilly</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1063" vote="aye">Willie Penrose</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1081" vote="aye">John Perry</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/947" vote="aye">Pat Rabbitte</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/952" vote="aye">James Reilly</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1074" vote="aye">Michael Ring</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1013" vote="aye">Brendan  Ryan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1025" vote="aye">Alan Shatter</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1048" vote="aye">Arthur Spring</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/961" vote="aye">Emmet Stagg</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1010" vote="aye">Joanna Tuffy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1095" vote="aye">Liam Twomey</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/950" vote="aye">Jack Wall</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1024" vote="aye">Alex White</mpname>
                </mplist>
                <mplist vote="no">
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1066" vote="no">Gerry Adams</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1199" vote="no">Bobby Aylward</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" vote="no">Richard Boyd Barrett</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1096" vote="no">John Browne</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1071" vote="no">Dara Calleary</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1083" vote="no">Michael Colreavy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1195" vote="no">Ruth Coppinger</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1101" vote="no">Barry Cowen</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1037" vote="no">Se&aacute;n Crowe</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/976" vote="no">Timmy Dooley</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1022" vote="no">Dessie Ellis</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1047" vote="no">Martin Ferris</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1198" vote="no">Michael Fitzmaurice</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1206" vote="no">Terence Flanagan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1100" vote="no">Se&aacute;n Fleming</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1050" vote="no">Tom Fleming</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1108" vote="no">Noel Grealish</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1094" vote="no">John Halligan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/960" vote="no">S&eacute;amus Healy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1049" vote="no">Michael Healy-Rae</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1188" vote="no">Colm Keaveney</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/983" vote="no">Billy Kelleher</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1040" vote="no">Michael Kitt</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/998" vote="no">P&aacute;draig MacLochlainn</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1017" vote="no">Finian McGrath</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1090" vote="no">Mattie McGrath</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/993" vote="no">Michael McGrath</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/965" vote="no">John McGuinness</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/981" vote="no">Sandra McLellan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1183" vote="no">Peter Mathews</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/987" vote="no">Michael Moynihan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1202" vote="no">Catherine Murphy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1197" vote="no">Paul Murphy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1177" vote="no">Denis Naughten</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/969" vote="no">Caoimhgh&iacute;n &Oacute; Caol&aacute;in</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1054" vote="no">Se&aacute;n &Oacute; Feargha&iacute;l</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1028" vote="no">Aengus &Oacute; Snodaigh</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1059" vote="no">Willie O'Dea</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1001" vote="no">Thomas Pringle</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/953" vote="no">Shane Ross</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1203" vote="no">R&oacute;is&iacute;n Shortall</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1102" vote="no">Brian Stanley</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1207" vote="no">Billy Timmins</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1080" vote="no">Peadar T&oacute;ib&iacute;n</mpname>
                </mplist>
        </division>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.384/3" nospeaker="true" time="12:50:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200024#W00300"><p>Question declared carried.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.385" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200025#X00100"><p>Is the proposal for dealing with No. 36, Equality (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2013 [Seanad] - Committee and Remaining Stages, agreed to?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.386" speakerid="unknown" error="nomatch" speakername="Deputies" time="12:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200025#X00200"><p>No.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.387" nospeaker="true" time="12:55:00" ><p>Question, &quot;That the proposal for dealing with No. 36, Equality (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2013 [Seanad] - Committee and Remaining Stages, be agreed to,&quot; put and declared carried.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.388" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200025#X00400"><p>Is the proposal for dealing with Private Members' business agreed to?  Agreed.</p></speech>
    <major-heading id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.389" nospeaker="true" time="12:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200025#X00500">Electoral (Amendment) (Registration of Political Parties and Groups) Bill 2015: First Stage</major-heading>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.390" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/953" speakername="Shane Ross" time="12:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200025#X00600"><p>I move:</p><blockquote>That leave be granted to introduce a Bill entitled an Act to provide for the extension of registration of political parties to political groups, to amend the Electoral Acts 1992 to 2013 and to provide for related matters.</blockquote><p>The Bill arises because the Independent Alliance, as a group, is facing the possibility of taking legal action because of the situation in which it finds itself.  I think all Members of the House will be aware of the fact that political parties have everything weighted in their favour when it comes to an election.  A huge anomaly has arisen for us, and will certainly confront other groups in a similar situation, in that the Independent Alliance and any other groupings of that sort, which are not political parties, will find themselves unable to put the word &quot;Independent&quot; or to dub themselves, for example, &quot;Independent Alliance&quot; on the ballot paper, nor will they be able to put an emblem on the ballot paper.  This means the description they come under is one of &quot;non-party&quot;, although they are political parties.  They do not have any choice or discretion as to what they call themselves.  This, of course, means they stand at a huge disadvantage because the people who identify a group as having a common platform and as being a common group, and who are being asked to transfer first and second preference votes in certain constituencies, cannot identify those people in the way they can a political party.</p><p>What we are asking the House to do is to grant the same rights of registration to groupings like our one that are given to political parties.  That would mean they would have the same privileges when it comes to elections.  It would also apply to the post-election period, given there is also the issue of funding after the election, when everybody in this House knows the political parties get a huge advantage over Independents and other groupings.  This issue should be addressed before the election.</p><p>There is also another issue which I think should be addressed.  During the election campaign which is approaching, political parties will get the advantage of party political broadcasts.  For some reason, Independents and other groupings are forbidden by law from getting that privilege.  The Act that covers this situation stipulates that RTE and other media are not obliged to give party political broadcasts to anybody but that they are not allowed to give party political broadcasts to Independents and other groupings.  What we are highlighting here is an anomaly in the legislation which gives advantages to those who come together but only if they form political parties.</p><p>The crucial difference between us - the Independent Alliance - and a political party is that we do not impose a party whip.  We allow freedom, independence of thought and independence of vote to our members.  The result of that, of course, would make a fundamental change to the way democracy is carried out in this House.  However, those of us who believe in that are discriminated against.  What I am asking the Government and the other political parties to do is to recognise the fact that people can stand on a common platform, stand together in an election, stand looking for first and second preference votes or stand in a group with common beliefs and principles but that they can also signal this to the electorate on the ballot paper.</p><p>I am introducing this Bill specifically because the Independent Alliance is looking very carefully at the possibility of taking legal action.  It is very reluctant to take legal action in this case and would be much happier if the Government were not just to allow a debate on this Bill, which I think is going to be the inevitable result of the dialogue I have with the Minister, but if it were to agree it, give us those privileges and save any dangers of legal action.  Another example of that discrimination against groupings like our group is that the cost of taking legal action on such an important issue as this, while I am not going to say it is prohibitive, is a massive deterrent which very few people could afford.  It may or may not be possible to thrash this out in the courts.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.391" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200025#X00700"><p>Is the Bill opposed?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.392" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/975" speakername="Joe Carey" time="12:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200025#X00800"><p>No.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.393" nospeaker="true" time="12:55:00" ><p>Question put and agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.394" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200025#X01000"><p>Since this is a Private Members' Bill, Second Stage must, under Standing Orders, be taken in Private Members' time.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.395" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/953" speakername="Shane Ross" time="12:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200025#X01100"><p>I move: &quot;That the Bill be taken in Private Members' time.&quot;</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.396" nospeaker="true" time="12:55:00" ><p>Question put and agreed to.</p></speech>
    <major-heading id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.397" nospeaker="true" time="12:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200025#X01300">Topical Issue Matters</major-heading>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.398" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="12:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200025#X01400"><p>I wish to advise the House of the following matters in respect of which notice has been given under Standing Order 27A and the name of the Member in each case: (1) Deputy Frank Feighan - the need to discuss issues relating to turf cutting, including the number of those who received compensation under the turf cutting cessation scheme to date and bog locations achieved and progress to date; (2) Deputy Bernard J. Durkan - the need to address the stalled works at the town centre development in Naas, County Kildare; (3) Deputy Seamus Healy - the need to advertise the GP practice for Bansha, County Tipperary with a rural practice allowance; (4) Deputy Pat Breen - the need to address the provision of waste water services to rural areas and the need for a pilot programme to include Carrigaholt, County Clare; (5) Deputy Caoimhgh&iacute;n &Oacute; Caol&aacute;in - the need to discuss plans to introduce a State-wide ban on smoky coal, including engagement with counterparts north of the Border; (6) Deputy &Eacute;amon &Oacute; Cu&iacute;v - the need to protect farmers by addressing the increased price deferential between Irish beef and British beef in British supermarkets and the steps taken to address the matter; (7) Deputy Peadar T&oacute;ib&iacute;n - the need to address the recent spate of killings of human right defenders by Colombian paramilitaries with the alleged complicity of the Colombian army; (8) Deputy Se&aacute;n Kyne - the need to consider the deficit of the Brothers of Charity Services in Galway which has effectively arisen from the implementation of a HSE reduction in funding in 2010; (9) Deputy Sean Fleming - the need to address the exclusion of local authority social housing units provided under Part V of the new tenant purchase scheme; (10) Deputy Denis Naughten - the need to convene a meeting between departmental officials, the Garda National Immigration Bureau and civil registrars to resolve the current legal blockage to marriages involving a third country national, which is denying Irish citizens their constitutional right to get married; (11) Deputy Clare Daly - the need to address the deteriorating health of Ibrahim Halawa, who is currently on hunger strike in prison in Egypt, and the need for the Government to urgently intervene on his behalf; (12) Deputy Billy Kelleher - the need to publish the recommendations of the HSE national ambulance review; (13) Deputy Eamonn Maloney - concerns regarding the pending industrial action on 15 December 2015 by the Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation in hospital accident and emergency departments; (14) Deputy Arthur Spring - the need to address the delay for persons in the south-west region referred to ophthalmologists in Cork University Hospital and the South Infirmary in Cork, who have been placed on the routine outpatient waiting list, which is currently two years, for procedures such as cataract operations; (15) Deputy Timmy Dooley - the need to discuss the decision of the National Transport Authority to allow public transport companies to increase their fares in December 2015 and from January 2016; (16) Deputy Charlie McConalogue - the need to provide an update on Bord F&aacute;ilte's development of tourism facilities at Malin Head in County Donegal and the level of progress that has been made on phase two of its plans for overall tourism development; and (17) Deputy Mattie McGrath - the need to address the crisis in the allocation of the rural practice allowance for GPs.</p>  <p>  The matters raised by Deputies Bernard J. Durkan, Arthur Spring, Pat Breen and Charlie McConalogue have been selected for discussion.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.399" nospeaker="true" time="12:55:00" ><p>Sitting suspended at 1.20 p.m. and resumed at 2.20 p.m.</p></speech>
    <major-heading id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.400" nospeaker="true" time="13:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200026#Z00100">Topical Issue Debate</major-heading>
    <minor-heading id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.401" nospeaker="true" time="13:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200026#Z00200">NAMA Portfolio</minor-heading>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.402" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/957" speakername="Bernard Durkan" time="13:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200026#Z00300"><p>I thank the Office of the Ceann Comhairle for facilitating this debate.  I have raised the issue of the stalled development at Naas town centre in the House on a number of occasions in various guises.  The issue has been ongoing for a considerable time, seven or eight years at this stage, and the unfinished development is now virtually a blight on the town.</p>  <p>  The town of Naas is a progressive provincial town which has always been innovative in terms of business.  However, business has suffered greatly as a result of the fact the tower cranes have not moved for a long time.  I have raised this matter with the local authority, particularly in respect of the arbitrators who are dealing with an issue of arbitration which, hopefully, will conclude in January.  I now raise the issue with the Minister of State in the context of the extent to which NAMA is involved in the scenario and the extent to which it can engage positively with the various authorities, including the local authority, with a view to moving the development forward at the first available opportunity.</p>  <p>  This issue is important for more than one reason.  It is a catalyst for development that is stalled in a similar fashion in other towns and villages throughout the county.  County Kildare lies next door to our capital city, which puts considerable pressure on development in Naas, Sallins and all the towns of north Kildare from both a commercial and residential property point of view.  Both sectors are heavily affected by the stalled development at Naas.  Visually, the issue is obvious to all as three or four tower cranes are seen to be stalled against the skyline.  This is not a good advertisement for business and is not good for the morale of the local business community or the local chamber of commerce which is supportive and very active in the area and has been anxious to move matters forward.</p>  <p>  While I fully accept the restrictions that apply in regard to NAMA, they cannot continue forever.  Therefore, I call on the Government to encourage NAMA to move on this.  I do not suggest the stalling of this development is deliberate.  However, nothing is to be gained by the continued stalling of the development and we cannot afford to allow it to wither much longer.  It is hugely important from the point of view of both commercial and residential development.  It is vital the matter moves forward as quickly as possible.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.403" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1106" speakername="Simon Harris" time="13:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200026#Z00400"><p>I thank Deputy Durkan for raising this issue of importance to all Deputies in terms of wanting to see development of their town centres and the return of economic activity.</p>  <p>  As the Deputy is aware, NAMA is legally constrained from commenting on assets that are under the control of its debtors, which is confidential information as defined by the NAMA Act as passed by this House.  On the general point, the Deputy is aware that all NAMA funding decisions are made in accordance with its statutory independent commercial mandate and its overriding objective of maximising the return to Irish taxpayers from the management and sale of its loans and the assets securing its loans.</p>  <p>  In general terms also, I am assured by NAMA that if a project can be shown to be commercially viable, NAMA will look favourably at funding such projects.  However, as the Deputy is aware, there are sometimes other stakeholders involved who also have to play their part and sometimes it is not possible that full co-operation can be achieved despite NAMA's best efforts.  NAMA is committed to providing substantial funding on a commercial basis to its debtors and receivers to maximise the return that NAMA can generate on behalf of taxpayers from development assets within its portfolio.  In other words, it is in the interest of NAMA to see development proceed so that it can return moneys to the taxpayer.</p>  <p>  The NAMA board has, in this respect, undertaken to facilitate the timely and coherent delivery of key grade A office, retail and residential space within the Dublin docklands strategic development zone and to facilitate increased residential delivery in the greater Dublin area and other locations where residential development may be commercially viable.  The Deputy will be aware, for example, of the recent announcement by the NAMA board that a residential delivery target of 20,000 units on a commercial basis by the end of 2020 is potentially achievable through NAMA funding.  NAMA is making substantial progress in both respects.  Just over a year since the NAMA board adopted its strategic business plan for NAMA assets in the docklands, it has facilitated planning processes relating to more than 2.5 million sq. ft. of commercial space.  NAMA wants to get on with the job and to finish up its work as quickly as it can.</p>  <p>  On the residential front, by the end of this year, NAMA will have funded the construction of more than 2,300 new residential properties in Dublin and in the neighbouring counties of Wicklow, Kildare and Meath.  An additional 3,000 new residential properties are currently under construction and planning is in place for a further 4,900 properties.</p>  <p>  NAMA's ultimate objective is to repay its debt and generate a surplus for taxpayers.  It is well on track to do both and to do so sooner than could have been initially envisaged.  NAMA has said that it aims to redeem a cumulative 80%, approximately &euro;24 billion, of its senior bonds by the end of 2016 and to have redeemed all of its senior bonds by the end of 2018.  This is two years ahead of NAMA's previous target of 2020.  NAMA has, to date, redeemed &euro;22.1 billion of senior bonds, 73% of the &euro;30.2 billion of senior bonds originally issued in 2010 and 2011 to acquire bank loans.  Reflecting NAMA's continued progress, it has redeemed &euro;5.5 billion of senior bonds this year alone.  NAMA has made major progress in reducing the State's contingent liability through the accelerated redemption of its Government guaranteed senior bonds.  There is progress being made.</p>  <p>  Since its inception, NAMA has reduced this contingent liability from &euro;30.2 billion at its peak to &euro;8.1 billion, a reduction from over 18% of GDP to around 4% of GDP today.  The NAMA chief executive has said that NAMA remains confident that this senior debt contingent liability will be eliminated in full by 2018, two years ahead of NAMA's original strategic plan.  NAMA is ahead of schedule because of its ability to take advantage of favourable Irish market conditions since the end of 2013 to increase the flow of assets to the market.</p>  <p>  Coming back to the specific question, NAMA is legally constrained from commenting on assets that are under the control of its debtors because such information is confidential information as defined by the NAMA Act.  Therefore, neither I nor the Minister for Finance would have, nor should have, knowledge of a specific property's relationship with NAMA, if any.  NAMA operates a dedicated email address for Members to raise matters of concern directly with it and I have no doubt the Deputy has raised this matter with it.  As I said, NAMA will look favourably on any commercially viable proposal but on occasion, it is just one of a number of stakeholders.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.404" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/957" speakername="Bernard Durkan" time="13:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200026#Z00500"><p>I thank the Minister of State for his comprehensive reply.  Time is critical and now is the time for NAMA to look at the assets it controls in Naas and to consider to what extent it can facilitate a reactivation of the development that is holding up development of the town centre because it has much wider implications and affects the entire town and outlying regions.</p><p>While we are on the job, I suggest they might liaise with the local authority.  I know they are in discussion with it and with the arbitration services, as should be the case.  I would ask them to concentrate their efforts with a view to bringing about an early indication as to where they are heading.  From here on in, the confidence of the local community, the business sector and those who are seeking local authority and private housing will be facilitated or otherwise by the extent to which NAMA can act as an impeller in propelling the development forward.</p> <p> Several years have elapsed since the development stalled.  Sufficient time has now gone by.  It is imperative that NAMA not only look at the town centre in Naas but also at the other adjoining towns in County Kildare, with a view to ascertaining the extent to which it can facilitate the early resumption of development and the bringing to a conclusion of the freeze that has kept the place under a cloud for some time.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.406" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1106" speakername="Simon Harris" time="13:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200027#AA00200"><p>I thank Deputy Durkan.  As I said, NAMA is legally constrained from commenting on assets under the control of its debtors.  Because this is confidential information, neither myself nor the Minister for Finance would have knowledge of a specific property's relationship with NAMA.  Section 99 of the NAMA Act 2009 sets out how the transfer of loans and the various rights and obligations relating to debtors, their assets and loans are acquired by NAMA.  Section 202 of the NAMA Act, however, prohibits the disclosure of confidential information of any business or person as set out in section 202(2).</p>  <p>  That is not to say that NAMA cannot provide information in terms of where things currently stand.  As the Deputy feels passionately about this issue, I suggest that he could pursue it directly with NAMA.  NAMA operates a dedicated email address to enable Senators and Deputies to raise matters of concern with it directly.  Any Deputy or Senator who has a concern about a particular sale or seeks information on the current status of a project should feel free to bring the matter to NAMA's attention.  While respecting the confidentiality and very strict law within which NAMA must operate, I am sure it will be as helpful as possible in providing information to the Deputy.  I have no doubt he has already raised this or indeed other matters with NAMA and will be fully aware that it does investigate all matters of concern brought to its attention.</p>  <p>  I thank the Deputy.</p></speech>
    <minor-heading id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.407" nospeaker="true" time="13:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200027#AA00300">Hospital Waiting Lists</minor-heading>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.408" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1048" speakername="Arthur Spring" time="13:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200027#AA00400"><p>I thank the Minister for Health for joining us.  Many issues come in to us in our constituency offices that are pertinent to society, yet very few have come across my desk recently that are as serious as this matter.  It concerns the cataract extractions that are necessary for elderly people, the most dominant section of society suffering from cataracts.  I will give an example of the timeframe for treatment and its consequences.  As a medical doctor, the Minister will, I am sure, appreciate this.  Ophthalmologists and eye specialists are giving me first-hand data.</p><p>Currently, there are people in their 70s, 80s and 90s telling me they are being seen by a community medical ophthalmologist for the purposes of identifying whether they need a cataract extraction.  These individuals are being put on a waiting list by the HSE and are waiting two years, on average, to be seen by - believe it or not - another community medical ophthalmologist, not in County Kerry, but in County Cork.  Thereafter they are actually allowed to go and see a surgeon, following another 12 month period.  There is a waiting time of up to three years; I have first-hand information from medics that it is currently a three year process.  It is like a Kerryman joke that a community medical ophthalmologist in Kerry is not taken seriously enough and people have to go and see another one in Cork two years later to confirm they need a cataract extraction.</p><p>There are about 40 people in the Tralee area currently who need this because they can no longer read, see TV or drive their cars.  One person - this is a very pertinent case, if the Minister does not mind - is deaf, lip-reads in order to communicate and is on a two year waiting list.  That person is elderly, as is the majority of these people.  Their quality of life is poor and becoming poorer and their standard of living, as influenced by those who are caring for them, is becoming more needs-based than compassion-based.  There is a need for them to be brought shopping, collected and kept in care.</p><p>The knock-on effect is that there is more demand for home help and carers.  There is also the threat of serious injury if someone is not able, while walking, to identify potholes, steps or other obstructions on the day-to-day route to the shop and so on.  If they fall they are inclined to break a hip or do some other serious injury to themselves.  Then we are into long-term care for the individual and the costs incurred by that.</p><p>I can cite many examples and have submitted some parliamentary questions to the Minister lately.  It is not for the purposes of trying to heighten or exaggerate the matter.  There is a problem and there is a solution.  I am aware that people are travelling to Cork, many of them 80 or 90 years of age, to go to a community medical ophthalmologist.  That is a six-hour ordeal at a minimum.  For someone to be asked to do that at 90 is a little bit much.  The Minister should accept the <i>bona fides</i>of what is going on in County Kerry.  He should go straight into looking at the national treatment purchase fund as the solution.</p><p>Kerry General Hospital does not have autonomy in this matter and cannot operate on these patients.  It is sending them to Cork University Hospital, CUH.  Half a mile over the road, however, the Bon Secours Hospital has a theatre lying idle when we have the funding.  I ask the Minister to tell me in his first response how much money is being spent on the national treatment purchase fund currently.  I have information that Cork - not Kerry - patients are going to the Mater Private in Cork for the purpose of having cataract extractions.  That is not happening in County Kerry.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.409" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/948" speakername="Leo Varadkar" time="13:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200027#AA00500"><p>I thank Deputy Spring for raising this issue and giving me the opportunity to confirm to the House that reducing waiting times for scheduled care is a key objective for the Government.  In January, I put in place maximum permissible waiting times for inpatient and day case treatment and outpatient appointments of 18 months by 30 June, and 15 months by the end of this year.</p><p>The HSE was provided with additional funding of &euro;51 million to ensure that these maximum waiting times are achieved.  In June, the HSE reported a performance against the 18 month <i>maxima</i>of 99.6% for inpatient and day case procedures, and 92% for outpatients.  The additional funding provided by the Government in 2015 to reduce waiting times for scheduled care is being used to maximise capacity across public and voluntary hospitals, as well as outsourcing activity to private hospitals where the capacity is not available to meet patient needs within the maximum allowable waiting time.</p><p>The HSE is addressing performance against maximum waiting times with hospital groups as part of the regular performance and accountability review process.  Fines are being applied at the average cost of inpatient, day case and outpatient appointments, with a view to incentivising improved performance for those waiting longest.  The total value of fines levied to the end of October is of the order of &euro;8.47 million.</p><p>The latest national treatment purchase fund, NTPF figures, published on 6 November, show some improvements.  This is positive and is the first time recently that we have seen reductions across the three key categories of inpatient, day case and outpatient waiting lists.</p><p>In line with the reconfiguration of acute services for Cork and Kerry in 2013, the elective surgical component of the ophthalmology service transferred to South Infirmary Victoria University Hospital.  All ophthalmic surgery is now carried out in south infirmary.  The ophthalmology outpatient department remains in CUH until the full transfer of service has been completed.</p><p>I am disappointed that the numbers on the waiting list for ophthalmology procedures in south infirmary have increased between March and October.  However, I have been assured that in line with the waiting list initiative, the hospital has written to all patients waiting longer than 15 months for an ophthalmology surgical procedure, to offer outsourcing to a private health care provider.  I am also pleased to confirm that the numbers waiting for an outpatient appointment in CUH have reduced overall from 5,513 in March to 4,378 at the end of October.  I am advised that the hospital is committed to ensuring that by 31 December 2015, no patient will be waiting more than 15 months for an outpatient ophthalmology appointment.  I also want to assure the Deputy that urgent referrals are triaged appropriately and seen in a suitable timeframe, in line with the clinical requirement.</p><p>To pick up the Deputy's question, the budget for the NTPF for the entire country for the entire year is &euro;1 million.  The NTPF ceased to exist as it used to in 2012.  Any outsourcing to private hospitals that is now done does not take place through the NTPF as used to be the case.  It is done directly by the hospital group or the hospital itself.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.410" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1048" speakername="Arthur Spring" time="13:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200028#BB00100"><p>According to the Department, the budget for the NTPF was &euro;17 million in 2013 while it was &euro;5 million in 2014.  That is why I am asking what the budget is for 2015.  It does not concur.</p>  <p>  I have hit the nail on the head regarding what the problem is.  The Minister said, "However, I have been assured that in line with the waiting lists initiative, the hospital has written to all patients waiting longer than 15 months for a ophthalmology surgical procedure to offer outsourcing to a private medical provider."  A community medical ophthalmologist in Kerry refers people to Cork University Hospital.  At the end of a two-year period - it is even longer than the 15 months the Minister cited - they are referred to a private community medical ophthalmologist, who has exactly the same qualifications as the original ophthalmologist, and then referred to a surgeon.  This is over a three-year period.</p>  <p>  It is not the Minister's fault.  The reason I raise it with him is that I know he can go about solving it.  Unlike many of the problems raised here, I will not just tell him about the problem but will also provide him with the solution.  There is an ophthalmologic surgeon in the Bon Secours Hospital in Tralee.  Kerry General Hospital does not have the ability to procure the services for these people, one of whom is an amputee with diabetes, one of whom is 90 years of age and can barely see and one of whom can barely hear and uses lip reading.  It costs &euro;3,000 per eye for this to be done privately.  These people do not have that kind of money.  What funding is available in the HSE?  The Minister's budget is increasing rapidly.  We are talking about at least 40 people in the Tralee area and more than 100 in County Kerry.  The quality of life of these people, who are in their twilight years, is declining.  We need to operate on their eyes, remove their cataracts and give them a better quality of life.  It is not rocket science but it is a joke that people see a person in Cork who has the same qualifications as the person they saw in Kerry and that they end up on a three-year waiting list.  I implore the Minister to take action and secure some funds to give these people quality of life.  We need to show some compassion as a Government.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.411" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/948" speakername="Leo Varadkar" time="13:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200028#BB00200"><p>I will double check the NTPF figures in case I am mistaken.  The NTPF does a number of things.  It calculates the waiting lists and negotiates prices with private nursing homes for the fair deal scheme.  Its traditional role prior to 2012, where people telephoned it and were able to go private, ended some time ago.  I think only &euro;1 million, or perhaps a couple million euro, is provided for that.  This is usually done towards the-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.412" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1048" speakername="Arthur Spring" time="13:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200028#BB00300"><p>Who is buying the services?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.413" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/948" speakername="Leo Varadkar" time="13:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200028#BB00400"><p>I have already told the Deputy but will do so again.  It is usually done towards the end of the year.  I think it was used for endoscopy last year.  A total of &euro;50 million has been provided this year and certain amounts, although not as much, have been provided in previous years.  That budget is controlled by the HSE and the hospital groups, so the &euro;50 million provided this year, all of which has not been spent, is available to the hospitals and hospital groups to enable them to outsource their patients.  Where they have patients who are waiting more than 15 months, they can now use that money to outsource outpatient appointments and procedures and they are doing that.  </p>  <p>  I will certainly check up on this matter.  Anyone waiting more than 15 months should have been offered the opportunity to go private.  I am told that anyone waiting more than 15 months for an ophthalmology surgical procedure has been written to and offered outsourcing to a private health care provider.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.414" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1048" speakername="Arthur Spring" time="13:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200028#BB00450"><p>Can I clarify something for the Minister?  Patients in Cork are going to Mater Private in Cork.  There are no patients from Kerry being dealt with in the same manner.  The waiting list of two years is made worse by the fact that they see the same person before they see a surgeon.  That is the essence of it.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.415" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/948" speakername="Leo Varadkar" time="13:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200028#BB00500"><p>I do not have knowledge at the level of individual hospitals but I will certainly check that matter out.  I will check the issue of them going to community medical ophthalmologists first before going to surgeons but it may well turn out to be the case that the surgeons are not happy to operate on a patient they have not seen.  Often surgeons will want to see the patient before they operate on him or her.  This has arisen in a number of cases where patients have been outsourced to a private surgeon who had never seen them before in his or her clinic.  There is a clinical risk in that, so there may well be a reason for it.</p></speech>
    <minor-heading id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.416" nospeaker="true" time="13:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200028#BB00900">Water and Sewerage Schemes Funding</minor-heading>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.417" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/974" speakername="Pat Breen" time="13:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200028#BB01000"><p>A recently published report by the EPA has shone a light on the need to continually upgrade our sewerage treatment facilities.  While 82% of the large areas achieved the mandatory EU quality standards, untreated sewage is being discharged from 45 urban areas, including areas in my constituency such as Kilkee, Kilrush, Liscannor, Ballyvaughan, Shannon and Clarecastle.  After years of underdevelopment of our water and sewerage facilities, &euro;5.5 billion investment in capital spending is planned by Irish Water up to 2021.  For years, the people of Shannon town in my county have had to endure the foul odour from the sewers.  Thankfully, significant works are now under way to alleviate the problem.  </p><p>An options study for the treatment of currently untreated discharges at Kilrush, Kilkee, Liscannor, Ballyvaughan and Clarecastle has also commenced.  I hope that Irish Water will prioritise this study and the subsequent systems upgrade because it is extremely important for these areas.  They are tourist destinations and sewerage infrastructure needs to be fast-tracked for them.</p><p>That planned infrastructure is very welcome.  However, there is a problem in rural areas.  There is significant cost involved in delivering a sewerage scheme in these areas which results in them falling outside the funding criteria for the current group sewerage scheme programme.  Carrigaholt in west Clare is one example.  People in this area have been campaigning for the development of a sewerage scheme for years.  Carrigaholt is a key destination on the Wild Atlantic Way and is the home of the fishing industry, particularly the shellfish industry.  It also has a very strong reputation for good food.  Those who watched &quot;Daniel and Majella's B&amp;amp;B Roadtrip&quot; on UTV will have seen that they had very successful visit to Carrigaholt.  It is an extremely busy tourist destination during the summer and people stop off there <i>en route</i>to Loop Head lighthouse.  </p><p>In 2014, &euro;10,000 was allocated by the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government towards the cost of a feasibility study into whether this scheme could be provided under the group sewerage scheme.  The outcome was that it would not be feasible due to the costs involved and that it would not be sustainable relative to the grant available for the number of domestic properties to be served.  However, the feasibility study proposed a joint funding approach between the Department, Irish Water and the local community.  With this in mind, Clare County Council submitted a asset needs brief for the scheme in early August.  However, Irish Water has now advised the council that it cannot fund this project within its current structure.  Once again, it has highlighted the difficulty with this.  There is a need for joined-up thinking on this, particularly in respect of funding.  Clare County Council had been very proactive on the issue.  It has engaged with Irish Water and the Department and I commend it on its efforts in this regard.  However, despite the council's best efforts, we are still at an impasse.</p><p>The capital cost of sewerage schemes in rural areas is an issue.  The cost of such schemes cannot be met by the householders alone because they are excessive, so we need a new approach to subventing these schemes.  Clare County Council and Irish Water recommend a joint approach and I believe this is the way forward.  While sewerage facilities are critical on environmental grounds, it is important that a funding mechanism is found to deliver these schemes in rural areas.</p><p>Will the Minister of State consider Carrigaholt as a pilot project?  It is a destination along the Wild Atlantic Way and depends on tourism and fishing.  A pilot project that brings the relevant stakeholders together and uses a joined-up approach could deliver a solution for Carrigaholt.  I hope the Minister of State has some good news in that respect or will think about making Carrigaholt a pilot for small towns and villages.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.418" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1092" speakername="Paudie Coffey" time="13:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200029#CC00100"><p>I am happy to respond to Deputy Breen's issue which is important for the people in Carrigaholt and County Clare.</p>  <p>  Clare County Council carried out a feasibility study on the proposed Carrigaholt group sewerage scheme with a view to ascertaining the viability of the scheme and it reported the estimated cost of the scheme to be &euro;1.233 million.  The Department of Environment, Community and Local Government informed the council earlier this year that it agreed with the feasibility study's findings that the proposed scheme and treatment for it, by way of an integrated constructed wetland, rather than connection to an existing public network was not financially viable to design and construct as a group sewerage scheme.  The development of such a scheme would require significant and unrealistic demands on the contributors to, and potential group members of, the scheme.  Managing the design and construction of a project of this nature and scale and maintaining the scheme into the future would not be a feasible option for a voluntary committee.  The Department informed the council that the proposed scheme at Carrigaholt does not meet with the general terms and conditions of the group sewerage grant scheme.  In view of the size, costs and the complexity of constructing and operating such a scheme, this scheme could not be considered for funding under the Department&rsquo;s group sewerage grant scheme.</p>  <p>  In the absence of a viable group sewerage scheme, Clare County Council was told it should liaise with Irish Water on identifying and putting in place appropriate solutions to meet the needs of the people of Carrigaholt which would involve public water infrastructure.  The Department has recently established a working group involving key stakeholders in the rural water sector to address the overall development of the rural water sector within the overall water sector reform programme to ensure that the programme responds effectively to current and future needs.  Local authorities, the Water Services Transition Office, Irish Water, the National Federation of Group Water Schemes, as well as the Department are represented on the working group.  One of the tasks of the group is to develop a multi-annual approach to targeting funding to meet the priority needs of the sector.</p>  <p>  The working group is also considering several areas where there are potential boundary issues with Irish Water or legacy issues that need to be addressed.  New approaches in this area will be informed by several demonstration projects or pilot schemes, including ones relating to group sewerage schemes.  We expect to contact local authorities very shortly to determine funding requirements and demonstration projects.  It will be a matter for Clare County Council in the first instance to submit proposals in this regard and Deputy Breen might be happy to engage with the council on this.  In totality, this will result in a new approach to the funding of group water and sewerage schemes for 2016 onwards.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.419" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/974" speakername="Pat Breen" time="13:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200029#CC00200"><p>I thank the Minister of State for his reply.  He is from a coastal county where there are several resorts along the coastline.  I welcome this working group.  It is a good idea.  There are many legacy issues around the country from the previous Administration and it is good to deal with them.  Clare County Council is in favour of this project.  It wants to see a sewerage scheme in place in Carrigaholt, that is why it has gone out of its way to work with Irish Water and the Department and I am confident that if there are going to be several pilot projects Clare County Council will make this its first priority.  I welcome that.  I hope this multi-annual approach will target areas such as Carrigaholt.</p>  <p>  There are other areas in County Clare and throughout the country where sewerage schemes have not been put in place.  Rural Ireland cannot wait.  It must have this infrastructure if it the population is to grow.  That is why this pilot project is so important.  There is an important fishing industry off the coast of Carrigaholt and an important tourism industry.  It is on the Wild Atlantic Way and many people stop off at the good restaurants there.  Having a sewerage scheme in these villages that cannot be sustained in the traditional ways is important.  I welcome the Department&rsquo;s approach.  I hope we can include Carrigaholt in the funding for 2016.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.420" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1092" speakername="Paudie Coffey" time="13:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200029#CC00300"><p>I welcome the fact that the Deputy recognises the opportunity that may present through the work of the working group.  This group will deliberate tomorrow when it meets to discuss the principles governing the new rural water multi-annual funding framework for 2016-18.  Following those deliberations the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Kelly, will announce details of the new programme over the coming weeks.  Local authorities will be invited to bid for 2016 funding and to provide a perspective on funding needs for schemes in their respective areas for 2017 and 2018 as well as to bid for suitable demonstration and pilot projects in line with the criteria to be set by the working group.  That may present the opportunity for Clare County Council to address the issue the Deputy raised today and for other local authorities to prioritise their submissions when making them to the new programme.</p>  <p>  This new approach to funding will address environmental and public health compliance of schemes; incorporate funding mechanisms to protect, maintain and enhance our assets and to meet existing contractual commitments as well as establishing a structure to fund new group water and sewerage schemes into the future.  It is envisaged that the funding of new schemes will be on a prioritised basis likely to have regard to matters such as the needs of households in the rural areas concerned, whether a public scheme is a viable option in the medium to long term; whether individual wells are an option in light of ground conditions and the availability of nearby water sources from reliability, capacity and suitability perspectives; the necessity for such schemes from an economic and rural development point of view as well as improving the living standards of the households concerned.  The proposed funding programme will also facilitate the takeover of certain schemes by Irish Water where the relevant parties have agreed to this approach.</p>  <p>  I am sure Deputy Breen will appreciate that it is not possible for me today to give any commitment regarding any potential projects that may be identified or selected for pilot projects in advance of 2016.  I believe, however, that there is enough work for the local authorities to do to prioritise the schemes they feel are most in need of support and to have those submitted under the new programme.</p></speech>
    <minor-heading id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.421" nospeaker="true" time="13:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200029#CC00400">Tourism Project Funding</minor-heading>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.422" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/999" speakername="Charlie McConalogue" time="13:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200029#CC00500"><p>It is timely that this Topical Issue matter on the development of tourism facilities at Malin Head is selected for discussion today because on Monday night there was a gathering of tourism and business leaders from the Inishowen area in Ballyliffin to discuss how we can bring forward the tourism product in Inishowen and in particular on Malin Head.  The consensus is that Malin Head as a tourist destination and as a location which is known across the country and can be easily marketed and as a location which has so much to offer in terms of its scenic attributes is something we need to focus on and develop.  By pushing that, other tourism industries and businesses which feed off the tourist industry can benefit from increased visitor numbers.</p>  <p>  Significant work has gone into this in recent years.  I have raised it here on several occasions and the Minister of State at the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Ring and I have discussed it before.  Progress on the development of facilities there has slowed down over the past year and it needs to be kick-started once more.  There was a programme for a three-phase development laid out, phase 1 of which has been completed by putting in pathways on the headland and lay-bys on the roads running up to it to improve access.  Phase 2 was to have been the development of toilet and car parking facilities and phase three was the development of a wider project.  Very significant work has gone into it.  The Malin Head Community Association has worked very hard, as has the local community.  Inishowen Tourism has pushed the matter.  I commend my colleague, Councillor Martin McDermott, who has been very active in pushing this as an issue and Donegal County Council which has worked closely with Bord F&aacute;ilte on achieving what has been achieved now and putting forward plans.  Planning permission is in place for new car parking facilities and for toilets.</p><p>There was an agreement between Donegal County Council and F&aacute;ilte Ireland that, on the granting of planning permission and completion of that process, F&aacute;ilte Ireland would then follow on by giving consideration to funding that aspect with a view to continuing the work towards the wider development of a final project to have a tourist attraction at Malin Head.  I ask the Minister of State to provide Members with an update on phase 2 of that development and, in particular, on the intention of F&aacute;ilte Ireland to fund the car parking and toilet facilities.  F&aacute;ilte Ireland has done tremendous work on the Wild Atlantic Way that offers great potential.  There has been really good development and investment at the Slieve League cliffs, Glencolmcille, as well as good investment in Fanad Head lighthouse which has been improved significantly and where a tourist facility has been developed.  However, it is also necessary to have such investment at Malin Head where it is needed greatly.  The rest of the peninsula and the tourism sector are waiting on it in order that everyone can try to promote it as a product to attract additional visitors to the area.  I hope the Minister of State will be able to provide Members with an update on where matters stand and what progress is being made.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.424" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1074" speakername="Michael Ring" time="13:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200030#DD00200"><p>I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. I will make a few points before turning to my script.  </p>  <p>  I am glad that the tourism interest groups are meeting in County Donegal because the Deputy who comes from that county is aware there was a time when visitors travelled as far as Bundoran and went no further.  If the Wild Atlantic Way has done one thing, it has certainly brought tourists into County Donegal.  Those involved in the tourism trade tell me it has been one of the greatest developments ever in terms of tourism in County Donegal.  I have come under a lot of pressure from my two colleagues, the Minister of State, Deputy Joe McHugh, and Deputy Dinny McGinley, who have been providing me with updates on what is happening.  I heard there were some complaints the other night about developments by the Government in County Donegal, but I will be responding to them within the week because I intend to issue a press release outlining what the Government has delivered, not only in the past year but also in the past five years since it took office.  I can assure the Deputy that it has invested substantially in County Donegal.</p>  <p>  I again thank the Deputy for raising the matter.  The Wild Atlantic Way is Ireland's first long distance touring route.  It stretches along the Atlantic coast from the Deputy's native county to west Cork.  As he is aware, Malin Head is a key signature point on the Wild Atlantic Way and a key stop on the route.  While it is one of three signature points on the Wild Atlantic Way in County Donegal, it is of the greatest importance, marking the most northerly signature point on the route, and already an iconic location.</p>  <p>  While my Department provides funding for F&aacute;ilte Ireland for investment in tourism projects such as the Wild Atlantic Way, it is not involved in developing or managing such projects.  The allocation of grant funding is a matter for the board of F&aacute;ilte Ireland.  Funding was provided in 2014 and 2015 for capital investment in the development of the route.  This funding was initially directed towards route signage and developing the 160 discovery points along the route.  Last year F&aacute;ilte Ireland and Donegal County Council completed the Wild Atlantic Way signage programme in the Inishowen area.  F&aacute;ilte Ireland has also worked with Donegal County Council on a programme of remedial works for the Wild Atlantic Way discovery points.  There are 36 such points in County Donegal, including ten in Inishowen, and this work is 90% complete in the county.  The next stage of infrastructural development to be rolled out along the Wild Atlantic Way is the installation of photo points and interpretation panels at all 188 discovery and embarkation points, of which there are 36 in County Donegal.</p>  <p>  Both F&aacute;ilte Ireland and I appreciate fully the need for State investment in tourist facilities at Malin Head.  F&aacute;ilte Ireland regards Malin as a priority location for investment.  It should be noted that any development work at the site must also enhance the visitor experience at the location and allow for better visitor flow, as well as ensuring the protection of the natural environment.  I am sure the Deputy will agree that in taking forward this development, both F&aacute;ilte Ireland and Donegal County Council must have regard to the sensitivity of the landscape.  It is important to note that F&aacute;ilte Ireland recently completed a strategic environmental assessment of the full Wild Atlantic Way initiative.  Given the environmental sensitivity of Malin Head, completing this assessment was essential prior to awarding funding to Donegal County Council to develop plans for the site.</p>  <p>  In respect of the Malin Head discovery point, an application for phase 2, car park and toilets, has been submitted to F&aacute;ilte Ireland by Donegal County Council and is due to be considered by the authority next week.  I am sure the Deputy is aware of this as, Deputy Dinny McGinley and the Minister of State, Deputy Joe McHugh, are aware of it.  In conjunction with this, the F&aacute;ilte Ireland authority will consider awarding technical assistance to Donegal County Council for the further development of a more comprehensive and integrated plan that will reflect the significance of Malin Head.  While the route is still in the process of being developed fully, the Wild Atlantic Way has become a central part of our overseas promotion.  That said, given how long it takes to get on the international travel map, I expect it will be this year and next year before the route receives the recognition it needs and deserves among potential tourists.  </p>  <p>  I am happy that the Wild Atlantic Way project will bring more overseas visitors to County Donegal and, in particular, Inishowen.  The Government, F&aacute;ilte Ireland and I are committed to tourism and balanced regional development and seek to make the most of what each part of the country has to offer.  I am sure we can now move forward to realise the potential Malin Head has to offer.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.425" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1000" speakername="Dinny McGinley" time="13:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200030#DD00300"><p>Good stuff.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.426" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/999" speakername="Charlie McConalogue" time="13:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200030#DD00400"><p>I thank the Minister of State for his response.  On his first point about tourists traditionally not travelling north into County Donegal beyond Bundoran, he will be familiar with this, coming from County Mayo which has received many tourists during the years.  Historically, it has been attributable to the Troubles, but it is stilla factor to this day.  Additional emphasis must be placed on trying to ensure County Donegal attracts more tourists and that they are spread across the county.  The Wild Atlantic Way is a good initiative with which to do this and it is to be hoped numbers will improve in future years.  However, it must be backed up by marketing.  It must also be backed up with investment.  I greatly welcome the update on progress the Minister of State has provided for Members on the phase 2 development at Malin Head.  It also is welcome that a grant funding application is going to F&aacute;ilte Ireland from Donegal County Council and is to be decided on by next week.  F&aacute;ilte Ireland and Donegal County Council have worked closely together to agree on the phases and, under phase 2, on the process for the provision of car parking and toilet facilities for which the necessary application will be made.  This proposal should be given good consideration and I am hopeful it will.  The important point is the proposal is now being put forward for consideration.  When this topic was last discussed in the Chamber, F&aacute;ilte Ireland did not intend to consider investing in phase 2, for which planning permission is now in place, until agreement was reached on wider plans.  It is greatly to be welcomed that the application will now be considered.  I urge the Minister of State to continue to push for this proposal and investment in the Wild Atlantic Way.  I will work with other political representatives and the local community to urge F&aacute;ilte Ireland to give the proposal the best consideration possible, as I am sure it will, when the application for investment comes before it next week in order that the facilities for which the grant application has been made will be in place by next summer and that an improved tourism product will be available.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.427" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1000" speakername="Dinny McGinley" time="13:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200030#DD00500"><p>All Members will be heading there and I hope the Deputy will be there to bring them around.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.428" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/999" speakername="Charlie McConalogue" time="13:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200030#DD00600"><p>The Deputy need not worry; I will be there to welcome him.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.429" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1040" speakername="Michael Kitt" time="13:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200030#DD00700"><p>The Minister of State to conclude.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.430" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1074" speakername="Michael Ring" time="13:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200030#DD00800"><p>Deputies Charlie McConalogue and Dinny McGinley, as well as the Minister of State, Deputy Joe McHugh, have been in contact with me on a regular basis.  We are all aware that the board meeting will take place next week and that the project is up for funding.  I hope the board will make whatever-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.431" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1000" speakername="Dinny McGinley" time="13:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200030#DD00900"><p>Will the Minister of State be at the board meeting?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.432" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1074" speakername="Michael Ring" time="13:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200030#DD01000"><p>No, but I will be keeping an eye on it from outside.  As for the Deputy's comments on County Donegal, I expect him to issue a statement next week to tell the people of County Donegal what the Government has delivered in the tourism sector.  I want him to do that because there has been a bit of-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.433" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1000" speakername="Dinny McGinley" time="13:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200030#DD01100"><p>We know.  Every hotelier in the county is saying he or she has never had a year like it.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.434" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1040" speakername="Michael Kitt" time="13:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200030#DD01300"><p>Will the Deputy, please, give the Minister of State a chance to reply?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.435" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1000" speakername="Dinny McGinley" time="13:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200030#DD01400"><p>Moreover, they like it and hope it will continue.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.436" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1040" speakername="Michael Kitt" time="13:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200030#DD01600"><p>Come on; the Minister of State only has one minute in which to reply.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.437" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1074" speakername="Michael Ring" time="13:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200030#DD01700"><p>I expect the Deputy and the Minister of State, Deputy Joe McHugh, to outline what has been delivered.  </p>  <p>  To respond to the questions asked by Deputy Charlie McConalogue, he is quite correct: it is about marketing and that it will take a few years to have the Wild Atlantic Way in included in the itinerary by people from around the world.  I have received criticism everywhere I have visited because I have promoted the Wild Atlantic Way.  The Wild Atlantic Way, in particular, constitutes a great offering from County Donegal to County Mayo to west Cork.  It is one of the greatest things to have happened in the tourism sector.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.438" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1000" speakername="Dinny McGinley" time="13:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200030#DD01800"><p>The Minister of State launched the first one in County Donegal.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.439" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1074" speakername="Michael Ring" time="13:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200030#DD01900"><p>I did and I can tell the Deputy that the Wild Atlantic Way has really taken off.  That is why it was necessary to develop the Ireland's Ancient East initiative and then the Dublin proposition.</p><p>The most successful of them all has been the Wild Atlantic Way, a great initiative and something I promoted at Government level.  I have given a commitment, as Minister of State, that the funding will be provided to finish that project.  It will take time and we have run into difficulties with other agencies.  My Department and F&aacute;ilte Ireland are having discussions with the other Departments.  As the Deputy will know, with all these sensitive areas, we have very sensitive people monitoring what is going on, so we have to be very careful.</p> <p> I am very proud of what has happened in tourism over the past four and a half years.  In the first ten months of this year we have had an increase of almost 13% in the number of visitors.  Almost 8 million people will have entered into the country this year.  This has not been the best year in the past four or five years, but the best year ever.  We will try to increase that by a further 4% next year.</p> <p> More than 220,000 people are employed in tourism.  It is a great product.  As Deputies McConalogue and McGinley know, we can get people employed in every corner of County Donegal and every corner of rural Ireland.  That is the great thing about tourism.  I am committed to rebalancing and trying to get as much infrastructure into rural areas to try to create the jobs and give people the opportunity to work in their own area.</p> <p> We have a great facility there.  Anybody can say what they like but the Wild Atlantic Way has been the greatest initiative since the foundation of the State.</p></speech>
    <major-heading id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.441" nospeaker="true" time="13:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200031#EE00200">Residential Tenancies (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2012: From the Seanad (Resumed)</major-heading>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.442" nospeaker="true" time="13:55:00" ><p>The D&aacute;il went into Committee to resume consideration of Seanad amendment No. 51:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.443" nospeaker="true" time="13:55:00" ><p>Amendment No. 2 to Seanad amendment No. 51 not moved.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.444" nospeaker="true" time="13:55:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 51 agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.445" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1040" speakername="Michael Kitt" time="13:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200031#EE00600"><p>Seanad amendments Nos. 52, 54, 56, 57, 60 to 64, inclusive, 66 to 72, inclusive, 74, 75, 86 to 99, inclusive, 101 and 102 are related and will be discussed together.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.446" nospeaker="true" time="13:55:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 52:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.447" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1092" speakername="Paudie Coffey" time="13:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200031#EE00800"><p>This group of amendments includes a number of measures to enable the PRTB to deal effectively with tenants who do not comply with their obligations, including the obligation to pay rent.  The published Bill provides for a new procedure to deal with tenants who do not comply with their statutory obligation to pay rent pending the determination of their dispute.  These amendments insert a new section 76A into the 2004 Act, which will provide that where there is a dispute before the board and the tenant does not pay the rent, the landlord may bring a complaint before the PRTB.  On the hearing of this complaint, the PRTB can order the tenant to pay any rent due.  The published Bill provides that the matter will then be adjourned for a period of no more than 14 days to allow the tenant to comply with this order and that where the tenant does not comply, the PRTB will have the power to terminate the tenancy irrespective of whether a notice of termination has been served.</p>  <p>  Significant concerns regarding the power of the PRTB to terminate the tenancy at 14 days&rsquo; notice were expressed on Committee Stage of the Bill in the D&aacute;il.  On foot of subsequent legal advice, these amendments remove this termination provision from the procedure.  However, the interim procedure to compel a tenant to pay the rent remains part of the Bill and is provided for by means of the insertion of the new section 76A into the principal Act.  The provision has now been moved in the Bill and this is provided for by means of amendments Nos. 56 and 57, with consequential amendments Nos. 60 to 64, inclusive, 71, 72, 87 to 89, inclusive, 101 and 102.  Amendments Nos. 66 to 70, inclusive, are technical drafting amendments.</p>  <p>  Amendment No. 86 provides that the board must report to the Minister on the operation of the new section 76A six months after its commencement and thereafter each year in its annual report.  I believe this procedure, together with amendments Nos. 52, 74 and 75, will provide for a fast and effective way for the PRTB to deal with that small minority of tenants who do not pay their rent.</p>  <p>  In addition to the section 76A procedures, amendment No. 52 is designed to address an issue that has been a cause of concern to landlords, in particular.  In certain cases a minor error in a notice of termination has caused the whole case to fall at the last hurdle, regardless of the merits of the case, sometimes after months of processing and hearings.  This situation is being remedied by amendment No. 52 to the effect that a minor error or defect, which is not prejudicial to the tenant, in a notice of termination would not invalidate the notice.</p>  <p>  Section 124 of the Residential Tenancies Act provides for the enforcement of PRTB determination orders in the Circuit Court.  While the PRTB endeavours to enforce as many of its orders as possible, Circuit Court sittings around the country are limited and in many cases there are significant waiting lists, as I mentioned earlier.  Amendments Nos. 74 and 75 will amend the Act so that in future PRTB determination orders can be enforced in the District Court rather than the Circuit Court.  This will considerably reduce the expense of enforcing a determination order and should also provide for faster hearings as there are more sittings of the District Court than the Circuit Court.</p>  <p>  Amendment No. 54 clarifies that the notice period for the termination of a tenancy for non-payment of rent is 28 days.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.448" nospeaker="true" time="13:55:00" ><p>Amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.449" nospeaker="true" time="13:55:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 53:

Section 17: In page 16, after line 42, to insert the following:

&ldquo;Amendment of section 66 of Principal Act

19. (1) Section 66 of the Principal Act is amended&mdash;(a) by substituting the following Table for Table 1:

&ldquo;TABLE 1

Termination by LandlordDuration of Tenancy 

(1)Notice Period 

(2)Less than 6 months28 days6 or more months but less than 1 year35 days1 year or more but less than 2 years42 days2 years or more but less than 3 years56 days3 years or more but less than 4 years84 days4 years or more but less than 5 years112 days5 years or more but less than 6 years140 days6 years or more but less than 7 years168 days7 years or more but less than 8 years196 days8 or more years224 days&rdquo;,

and

(b) by substituting the following Table for Table 2:

&ldquo;TABLE 2

Termination by TenantDuration of Tenancy

(1)Notice Period 

(2)Less than 6 months28 days6 or more months but less than 1 year35 days1 year or more but less than 2 years42 days2 years or more but less than 4 years56 days4 years or more but less than 8 years84 days8 or more years112 days&rdquo;.(2) Where, immediately before the coming into operation of subsection (1), a period of notice was specified in a notice of termination in respect of a tenancy to which section 66 of the Principal Act applies but that period had not expired, notwithstanding the amendments to section 66 of the Principal Act made by subsection (1), the periods of notice specified in the Tables to that section before those amendments were made shall continue to apply in respect of the notice of termination concerned as if those amendments had not been made.&rdquo;.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.450" nospeaker="true" time="13:55:00" ><p>Amendments Nos. 1 and 2 to Seanad amendment No. 53 not moved.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.451" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1192" speakername="Clare Daly" time="13:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200031#EE01200"><p>I move amendment No. 3 to Seanad amendment No. 53:</p><blockquote>In section 19(1), to delete paragraph (b) and substitute the following:<blockquote><blockquote>&ldquo;(b) the duration of tenancy shall not affect the notice period required for termination by a tenant, which shall in all cases be 28 days.&rdquo;.</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.452/1" nospeaker="true" time="14:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200032#FF00200"><p>Amendment to amendment put:</p><p>The Committee divided: Tá, 35; Níl, 66.</p><br/><p>Tellers: Tá, Deputies Clare Daly and Mick Wallace; Níl, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Paul Kehoe.</p></speech>
        <division id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.452/2" nospeaker="true" divdate="2015-12-02" time="14:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200032#FF00200">
            <divisioncount ayes="35" noes="66" />
                <mplist vote="aye">
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1190" vote="aye">Tommy Broughan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1071" vote="aye">Dara Calleary</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1057" vote="aye">Niall Collins</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1083" vote="aye">Michael Colreavy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1195" vote="aye">Ruth Coppinger</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1204" vote="aye">Lucinda Creighton</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1037" vote="aye">Se&aacute;n Crowe</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1192" vote="aye">Clare Daly</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1022" vote="aye">Dessie Ellis</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1047" vote="aye">Martin Ferris</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1198" vote="aye">Michael Fitzmaurice</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1100" vote="aye">Se&aacute;n Fleming</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1050" vote="aye">Tom Fleming</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1108" vote="aye">Noel Grealish</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1094" vote="aye">John Halligan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/960" vote="aye">S&eacute;amus Healy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1049" vote="aye">Michael Healy-Rae</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1188" vote="aye">Colm Keaveney</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/983" vote="aye">Billy Kelleher</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/998" vote="aye">P&aacute;draig MacLochlainn</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/999" vote="aye">Charlie McConalogue</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1008" vote="aye">Mary Lou McDonald</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1017" vote="aye">Finian McGrath</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/965" vote="aye">John McGuinness</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/981" vote="aye">Sandra McLellan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1202" vote="aye">Catherine Murphy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1197" vote="aye">Paul Murphy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1177" vote="aye">Denis Naughten</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1054" vote="aye">Se&aacute;n &Oacute; Feargha&iacute;l</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1028" vote="aye">Aengus &Oacute; Snodaigh</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/984" vote="aye">Jonathan O'Brien</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1001" vote="aye">Thomas Pringle</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1203" vote="aye">R&oacute;is&iacute;n Shortall</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1102" vote="aye">Brian Stanley</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/956" vote="aye">Mick Wallace</mpname>
                </mplist>
                <mplist vote="no">
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1062" vote="no">James Bannon</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/980" vote="no">Tom Barry</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1079" vote="no">Ray Butler</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/989" vote="no">Jerry Buttimer</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1029" vote="no">Catherine Byrne</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1030" vote="no">Eric Byrne</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1042" vote="no">Ciar&aacute;n Cannon</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/975" vote="no">Joe Carey</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1092" vote="no">Paudie Coffey</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1041" vote="no">Paul Connaughton</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1093" vote="no">Ciara Conway</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1099" vote="no">Marcella Corcoran Kennedy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/986" vote="no">Michael Creed</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1091" vote="no">John Deasy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1046" vote="no">Jimmy Deenihan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/968" vote="no">Pat Deering</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1075" vote="no">Regina Doherty</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1007" vote="no">Paschal Donohoe</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1011" vote="no">Robert Dowds</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/957" vote="no">Bernard Durkan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1014" vote="no">Alan Farrell</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1085" vote="no">Frank Feighan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1105" vote="no">Anne Ferris</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1068" vote="no">Peter Fitzpatrick</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1055" vote="no">Charles Flanagan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1051" vote="no">Brendan Griffin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1076" vote="no">Dominic Hannigan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/995" vote="no">Noel Harrington</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1106" vote="no">Simon Harris</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/949" vote="no">Martin Heydon</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1097" vote="no">Brendan Howlin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1012" vote="no">Derek Keating</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1098" vote="no">Paul Kehoe</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1021" vote="no">Se&aacute;n Kenny</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1110" vote="no">Se&aacute;n Kyne</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/996" vote="no">Michael McCarthy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1180" vote="no">Helen McEntee</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1194" vote="no">Gabrielle McFadden</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1000" vote="no">Dinny McGinley</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/997" vote="no">Joe McHugh</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1082" vote="no">Tony McLoughlin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/977" vote="no">Michael McNamara</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1070" vote="no">Michelle Mulherin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/985" vote="no">Dara Murphy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1056" vote="no">Dan Neville</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1045" vote="no">Derek Nolan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1018" vote="no">Aodh&aacute;n &Oacute; R&iacute;ord&aacute;in</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1058" vote="no">Patrick O'Donovan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1069" vote="no">Fergus O'Dowd</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1073" vote="no">John O'Mahony</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/971" vote="no">Joe O'Reilly</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1063" vote="no">Willie Penrose</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1081" vote="no">John Perry</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/966" vote="no">John Paul Phelan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1035" vote="no">Ruairi Quinn</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/947" vote="no">Pat Rabbitte</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/952" vote="no">James Reilly</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1074" vote="no">Michael Ring</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1013" vote="no">Brendan  Ryan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1025" vote="no">Alan Shatter</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1048" vote="no">Arthur Spring</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/961" vote="no">Emmet Stagg</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/978" vote="no">David Stanton</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1095" vote="no">Liam Twomey</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/950" vote="no">Jack Wall</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1024" vote="no">Alex White</mpname>
                </mplist>
        </division>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.452/3" nospeaker="true" time="14:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200032#FF00200"><p>Amendment to amendment declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.453" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1195" speakername="Ruth Coppinger" time="14:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200033#GG00100"><p>I move amendment No. 4 to Seanad amendment No. 53:</p><blockquote>In section 19, to delete subsection (2).</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.454" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Amendment No. 4 to Seanad amendment No. 53 put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.455" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 53 agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.456" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 54:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.457" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.458" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1040" speakername="Michael Kitt" time="14:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200033#GG00600"><p>Seanad amendments Nos. 55, 65 and 73 are related and will be discussed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.459" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 55:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.460" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1092" speakername="Paudie Coffey" time="14:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200033#GG00800"><p>These are technical amendments.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.461" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.462" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 56:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.463" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.464" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 57:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.465" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p></p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.466" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p></p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.467" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.468" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 59:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.469" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.470" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 60:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.471" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.472" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 61:</p><p>21. Section 86 of the Principal Act is amended, in subsection (1): by substituting the following paragraph for paragraph (a):</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.473" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.474" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 62:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.475" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.476" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 63:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.477" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.478" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 64:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.479" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.480" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 65:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.481" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.482" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 66:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.483" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.484" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 67:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.485" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.486" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 68:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.487" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.488" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 69:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.489" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.490" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 70:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.491" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.492" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 71:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.493" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.494" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 72:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.495" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.496" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 73:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.497" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.498" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 74:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.499" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.500" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 75:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.501" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.502" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 76:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.503" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.504" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 77:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.505" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.506" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 78:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.507" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.508" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 79:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.509" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.510" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 80:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.511" nospeaker="true" time="14:10:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.512" nospeaker="true" time="14:20:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 81:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.513" nospeaker="true" time="14:20:00" ><p></p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.514" nospeaker="true" time="14:20:00" ><p></p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.515" nospeaker="true" time="14:20:00" ><p></p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.516" nospeaker="true" time="14:30:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.517" nospeaker="true" time="14:30:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 82:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.518" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1040" speakername="Michael Kitt" time="14:30:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200035#GGGGG00700"><p>As the proposer of amendment No. 1 to Seanad amendment No. 82 is not present, it cannot be moved.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.519" nospeaker="true" time="14:30:00" ><p>Amendment No. 1 to Seanad amendment No. 82 not moved.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.520" nospeaker="true" time="14:30:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.521" nospeaker="true" time="14:30:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 83:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.522" nospeaker="true" time="14:30:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.523" nospeaker="true" time="14:30:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 84:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.524" nospeaker="true" time="14:30:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.525" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 85:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.526" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.527" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 86:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.528" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.529" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 87:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.530" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.531" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 88:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.532" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.533" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 89:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.534" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.535" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 90:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.536" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.537" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 91:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.538" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.539" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 92:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.540" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.541" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 93:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.542" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.543" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 94:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.544" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.545" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 95:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.546" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.547" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 96:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.548" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.549" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 97:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.550" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.551" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 98:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.552" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.553" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 99:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.554" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.555" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 100:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.556" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.557" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 101:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.558" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.559" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 102:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.560" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.561" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment No. 103:</p><p></p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.562" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendment agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.563" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Seanad amendments reported.</p></speech>
    <major-heading id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.564" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200036#HH04000">Health Insurance (Amendment) Bill 2015: Report and Final Stages</major-heading>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.565" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Bill received for final consideration.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.566" nospeaker="true" time="14:40:00" ><p>Question proposed: &quot;That the Bill do now pass&quot;.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.567" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/948" speakername="Leo Varadkar" time="14:40:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200036#HH04300"><p>I welcome the wide support for the Bill across the House.  Ensuring as many individuals as possible have access to affordable health insurance, regardless of their age, gender or health status, forms the basis of Government policy in this area.  Particular attention is given to protecting the needs of older and less healthy policy holders.  We all recognise the important role risk equalisation plays in protecting the solidarity principle in our community rated voluntary health insurance system.  It ensures older people and those who have illnesses do not have to pay more than younger, healthier people and that is what the Bill is all about.  It is not about promoting health insurance or guaranteeing profits for insurers; it is about social solidarity and equalisation.</p>  <p>  The main purpose of the Bill is to specify the risk equalisation credits and corresponding stamp duty levels for March 2016.  It also provides for an improvement in the health status measure under the scheme by expanding the setting in which a utilisation credit will be payable to include day cases.  The expansion of the credit to include a lower payment of &euro;30 in the case of all day cases to hospitals increases the support provided for less healthy people of all ages.  The reduction in stamp duty for non-advance contracts supports the provision of affordable low cost entry products.  Risk equalisation is a necessary support to community rated health insurance and I am committed to making the scheme as effective as possible in a way that promotes open and fair competition.</p>  <p>  I thank all Deputies for their positive contributions to the debate and for facilitating the rapid passage of the Bill through the House.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.568" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/983" speakername="Billy Kelleher" time="14:40:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200036#HH04400"><p>We had detailed discussions about this on Committee Stage.  The Minister referred to the fact that this is about making sure risk equalisation is maintained along with the concept of community rating and intergenerational solidarity to ensure affordable health insurance.  However, the biggest recruiter for private health insurance companies is the fact that our public health system is in chaos.  Week in, week out people consistently experience delays accessing diagnostics and treatments and that is why people who are anxious, concerned and fearful are forced to take out insurance because if anything happens to them or their families, they simply could not access the public health system.</p>  <p>  I have never said there is a quick fix solution to the broader difficulties facing the health services but the notion that an 18 month waiting period is deemed acceptable for people to access diagnostics, consultants or treatment is wrong.  That is why there is a change in the perspective of people taking out private health insurance.  While the improving economy is a factor, the key factor driving people into taking out insurance is that companies are offering coverage for the basics, which they should be able to access in the public health system but cannot.  Companies are not offering anything above and beyond basic coverage.</p><p>Until such time as there is a level playing pitch in terms of access based on clinical need, there will be a continual move of people into the private health insurance market, not because of what is being offered but because of what is not being offered in the public health system.  What is not being offered in the public health system is basic access to basic healthcare.  The Minister talks about the roll-out of universal health care, but in the meantime, while that grand plan is being announced and universal health insurance is being shelved, there are 400,000 people waiting for an outpatient appointment.  There are tens of thousands of people who have been waiting for over one year for diagnostics and treatments.  That is what is happening in the public health system.  The Bill is about ensuring risk equalisation is maintained, ensuring the efficiencies of same, maintaining inter-generational solidarity and lifetime community rating and encouraging young people into the system.  Private health insurance should offer something over and above what people should expect from the public health system such as private or semi-private rooms or other facilities.  That is why people take out private health insurance.  We should be conscious, however, that people are now taking out private health insurance not because of wonderful offers but because of the appalling scenario visited on people day in, day out in the public health system in accessing basic healthcare.  Reference was made to the matter today during Leaders' Questions when Galway University Hospital and the incident in Cork in which a young child had to wait for an inordinate period on a trolley were mentioned.  These are all things that put fear into people.  </p> <p> Until such time as we accept the the roll-out of universal health care is welcome, we have a huge problem that is not being dealt with and we will see this problem escalate over the Christmas period.  There will be further cancellations of elective surgeries and a back-up of outpatient waiting lists.  That is what will happen again this year and the Minister will applaud himself because of his supplementary budget of &euro;665 million, but the bottom line is that he has simply not got to grips with the overarching problems in the delivery of basic healthcare.  When we talk about encouraging people into the health insurance market, it should be about encouraging them to lighten the burden on the public health system and it should not be done by forcing them to take out private health insurance because the public health system simply cannot deliver healthcare.  That is the reason there has been an increase in the numbers taking out private health insurance.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.570" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/969" speakername="Caoimhgh&iacute;n &Oacute; Caol&aacute;in" time="14:50:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200037#JJ00200"><p>As I indicated on Second Stage, I will not be opposing the passage of the Bill.  I have to accept it in the context of the reality in the provision of healthcare and its funding.  I am a strong opponent of private health insurance and I object to it on principle.  At its core, it is immoral that people can buy access to healthcare on the basis of the strength of their income stream or net wealth, while others must languish in long waiting queues, many of them in agony and some with their lives in suspension, waiting for the opportunity to even have a first consultation, never mind access to a treatment programme.</p>  <p>  The Minister has moved the Government's focus from the former Minister, Deputy James Reilly's and the Taoiseach's favoured model of a multi-tier system of private health insurance in the context of universal health insurance.  The central plank of the Minister's party and the Government's policy position outlined in the programme for Government after the February 2011 general election has moved to the language of some Opposition voices who for many years have championed universal healthcare on the basis of need alone, irrespective of one's ability to pay or geographical location.  That is where I hope the Minister will bring his party's thinking.  Rather than parking this issue and commissioning further consideration, reviews and reports on a single health insurance model to fund universal healthcare, I hope he will come to accept that what we need is healthcare paid for by progressive taxation which will be available to all on the basis of need.  That is the goal my party and I have and there are other voices in this House who mirror that objective.  </p>  <p>  It is very important in the last weeks of the Government for the Minister, as a medical practitioner and someone who I believe cannot be unaware of the inequities in the current system and how wrong it is to perpetuate a two-tier health system, to demonstrate favour to the idea and ideal of universal healthcare paid for through progressive taxation and available free at the point of delivery for all on the basis of need.  It is achievable; it is not a pipe dream.  It is an ambitious goal but one that can be achieved.  We could present ourselves in a country with a small population on the western seaboard of Europe as having one of the foremost healthcare delivery systems anywhere in Europe and beyond.  This is achievable with the good will not only of political voices but also of practitioners at every level within the healthcare system.  I have noted in my engagement with consultants, doctors, nurses, midwives, therapists and a range of other healthcare professionals that there is nothing like the opposition some would suggest.  The concept has found favour.  We need it to be laid out in clear and understandable language in order that people can buy into the objective and ideal.  I hope to be able to help progress this in the time ahead, but it cannot be done and will not be achieved from a single voice perspective.  It will need the support of more and more voices across the political spectrum if it is to have any prospect of realisation.  It is worthy of the Minister's best consideration and the consideration of all others who truly believe in equality and the right of every citizen to equal treatment to meet their healthcare needs and increase their life expectancy.  I have no fervour for the basis of the propositions contained in the Bill, namely, the extension of the transfer from overnight inpatient care to inpatient services on a day care basis and all of the other allied elements of the legislation, but accepting the situation as it is, I will not oppose the Bill.</p><p>However, I will use this opportunity to again articulate the importance of looking at a completely new approach, one in which the overwhelming majority of the people would not only buy into but would view in the future with confidence while eliminating the need for so many to have private health insurance.  For those who make that choice, they can have their private hospitals and private clinics but they can no longer piggyback on the public health system.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.572" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1056" speakername="Dan Neville" time="15:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200038#KK00200"><p>I welcome the passing of this Bill.  I want to use the opportunity to briefly raise an issue I raised previously, namely, the cover provided by the health insurance companies for mental health inpatient services.  There seems to be discrimination in the approach of the insurance companies to coverage for mental health inpatient services.  For example, the Voluntary Health Insurance, VHI, covers 180 days for general health issues and hospitalisation while its psychiatric policies vary from 100 days to 180 days, depending on the plan.  Likewise, GloHealth has no time limit on physical health cover but has one of 100 days for mental health inpatient services.  Laya Healthcare has coverage for hospitals of 180 days but the coverage for psychiatric inpatient treatment is 100 days.  Why are there different kinds of coverage under the same plans?  Everyone will agree this is discrimination in an age when we see mental health inpatient and outpatient treatment as based on a recovery approach, as described in A Vision for Change.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.573" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1069" speakername="Fergus O'Dowd" time="15:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200038#KK00300"><p>I welcome the changes made in this Bill.  I listened carefully to what my colleagues opposite said.  The fact remains that everybody should get the medical care they need at the point they need it, regardless of income and family circumstances.  There is a progressive taxation system in this country where the more one earns, the more one pays.  Nevertheless, as has been pointed out, a significant number of people are paying for private health insurance.  Whether we are getting value for money or not, the more competition there is in the marketplace, the more companies will enter and offer choices to patients at different stages.</p>  <p>  People seek medical help and attention at an acute point in their life cycle, such as when they are seriously ill, have to go into hospital or into a nursing home when they can no longer continue living at home.  We need to examine not just health insurance issues in these cases.  It would be far cheaper on the State to invest in continuing care in the home so as to keep people in their homes as long as possible.  The first option on the fair deal scheme is to go into a nursing home when it should be the last.</p>  <p>  I welcome the increased packages of home help care and other support services provided by the Minister.  However, they do not go anywhere near far enough.  As our financial position improves, I would welcome increased support services to people in their homes, increased home help hours and increased care from public health nurses who do a fantastic job.  The level of investment in community care is important.  One of the significant issues we have not addressed as a society is the question of dementia care and dementia-friendly towns and cities.  Will the Minister take on board the examples of many other cities and countries which are looking at caring for people in their communities while keeping people at home who would otherwise be in long-term care?  We need to have a proactive approach in care for people with dementia in particular.</p>  <p>  Concerns were raised about patients on hospital trolleys.  We all encounter such cases every day.  In Drogheda, I have not heard anything but the highest of praise for the nurses and doctors in the Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital.  There is a significant appreciation of the professional care which people receive, notwithstanding the fact that it is on trolleys, which nobody wants.</p>  <p>  If there is one significant inequality in the way the State's finances are organised and care is provided, it is in the area of prescription charges for those on medical cards.  The sicker one is, the more medication one needs and the more one will pay on prescription charges.  For those on medical cards, they must pay for prescription charges up to a maximum of &euro;25 per month.  It is wrong that medical cardholders on low incomes continue to pay prescription charges.  As our economic situation improves and as we face into the general election, this should become an important issue to be addressed.</p>  <p>  I welcome the Bill as well as the significant changes the Minister has made in difficult times in our health system.  I hope this work continues.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.574" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="15:00:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200038#KK00400"><p>I will be brief as we have had this discussion at length on earlier Stages.  As I said before, I fundamentally reject the basis on which this entire Bill is constructed and the emphasis of this Government's policy on the private health insurance industry playing a useful role in developing a universal health system.  The reason the Government used the term &ldquo;universal health insurance&rdquo; prior to the last general election is because it knew that is what people wanted.  People want something that is available to everybody.  Whatever about our ideological and philosophical differences on a range of issues, such as markets and whatnot, everybody believes health care provision should be universal.  Everybody should get the same treatment because they need it as human beings, particularly when they are ill, disabled or whatever.  That is what the majority think and Fine Gael used that term prior to the last election because it knew that is what everybody wanted. Everybody rejects the two-tier health care system.  If we listen to what people say they want and if we are moving towards providing quality health care to everybody, regardless of income, position in society or whatever, then we must move to a universal system.</p>  <p>  The Minister has now acknowledged that trying to deliver universality, while incorporating the private health insurance industry, just does not add up.</p><p>After five years of saying we will have universal health insurance, what the public heard was "universal" but what the Government smuggled in was "insurance".  The second bit undermines the first.  We all know it.  The international evidence is absolutely clear.  Once private health insurance companies are brought into the equation, hierarchies come into play straight away.  Some people can afford to buy better packages than others.  We do not get equality or universality.  We get something else.</p> <p> We also get a massive waste and drain on resources.  Money which is paid out of the Exchequer and the pockets of those who take out health insurance is wasted on things which have nothing to do with health care.  Millions of euro are wasted on advertising.  On a worldwide scale, billions of euro are wasted on private health insurance companies competing with one another.  It is not spent on nurses and doctors or on building hospitals or primary care centres but on advertising and it is a waste.  We see and hear the advertisements every day on the television and the radio, including one telling people to go to the Blackrock Clinic as it is much better in an emergency.  People should know that there is an accident and emergency department nearby which they can access on a 24-hour basis, that they will not be left for days on trolleys and that money is not an issue.  It should be paid for through central and progressive taxation.  That is what people want.</p> <p> I have made the point before but there is something wrong when a debate on health starts with phrases such as "risk equalisation" and "lifetime community rating" and lots of technical babble which has nothing to do with health.  When we hear these terms, we know we have done something wrong and are on the wrong track because that is not what health care is about.  That is not what hospitals and sickness are about.  It is techno babble and it arises from the fact that there are external, profit-seeking bodies that have nothing to do with delivering health care thrown into the mix.  Massive billing operations, administration and all that kind of stuff has nothing to do with health care.  The cost of providing health care is greater wherever this model exists.  It will always be greater because it is necessary to add profit-seeking, advertising, administration, billing costs and all the rest of it into the equation.  </p> <p> The Government has sort of had to acknowledge that those are the facts because it has more or less abandoned a promise it made on this issue.  The Government should listen to what people are saying and what all the evidence is saying.  Let us have a national health system and let us fund and finance it because in the end, it will be cheaper, more efficient and fairer.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.576" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/948" speakername="Leo Varadkar" time="15:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200039#LL00200"><p>I thank the Deputies for their comments.  I thank Deputy Kelleher and Deputy &Oacute; Caol&aacute;in for their support for this Bill.  I note there are reservations and caveats attached to it.  I also welcome their support for universal health care and agree with their objective in that regard.  In the next few weeks, we will be moving into an election phase and there is an obligation on the Opposition not just to offer criticism but to offer alternatives as well.  Given Deputy Kelleher's words and commitment to universal health care, I look forward to reading his detailed and costed proposals to bring it about and his transition plans showing how to get from where we are today to where we all want to be.  I look forward to reading his detailed policies or manifestoes, when published.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.577" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/983" speakername="Billy Kelleher" time="15:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200039#LL00300"><p>I read the Minister's.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.578" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/948" speakername="Leo Varadkar" time="15:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200039#LL00400"><p>Fianna F&aacute;il has an opportunity to show how much better it would be than any other party in government by producing a detailed and costed plan on bringing about universal health care in the first term of a Fianna F&aacute;il government with Deputy Kelleher as Minister, presumably, and how he would achieve the transition.  Perhaps I could learn from it.  I look forward, therefore, to reading his manifesto and policy and hope it will be as good as he promises it will be.</p>  <p>  Deputy Neville asked about mental health cover.  Every health insurance policy must offer minimum benefits.  After that, it depends on the particular policy.  Any policy must offer at least 100 days inpatient care.  Other policies offer more.  I take his point that there should not be a distinction between a person availing of inpatient mental health care services and a person availing of any other inpatient service.  It is a well made point but to address it, changes to the minimum benefits would be required and that is beyond the scope of this Bill.  </p>  <p>  Deputy O'Dowd made a number of comments which I also welcome.  He mentioned prescription charges.  They are set at a maximum of &euro;25 per month for a medical cardholder.  The sum of &euro;25 is still the maximum for a person on a large number of medicines.  I would like to reduce the figure in the term of the next Government, if I am part of it, but it would be expensive.  Those prescription charges bring in more than &euro;100 million in a year and the money does not go into the general Exchequer pot but directly to the health service.  A reduction in half of the sum would require &euro;60 million or so to be found either from another source or from cuts to services and we are not in a position to do so at the moment, for reasons the Deputy will understand.  </p>  <p>  Even in a utopia with the best public health service in the world, we would still probably have some form of supplementary health insurance.  The NHS, or national health system, as Deputy Boyd Barrett referred to it, performs extremely well in terms of rapid and timely access to health care on an equal basis.  It does not perform as well in terms of patient outcomes.  We do better than that system in terms of many patient outcomes.  A system might do well on access but it may not necessarily do as well on morbidity, mortality, outcomes, cure rates and survivor rates.  However, even in a socialist national health system, no matter how one designs it, by definition, one will run into certain issues.  There will have to be some degree of rationing.  Even in the wealthiest, most socialist country in the world, the health budget is always finite.</p>  <p>  A finite budget requires rationing and queues.  People have to wait because someone else's case is more urgent.  It requires the removal of choice.  People may want to see a particular consultant and not another one but if one is going to have a socialist national health service, that choice has to be taken away.  If everyone wants to see a particular guy, the waiting list will be very long.  People will have to be split up and told where they have to go.  Just as we do in a public education system at the moment, everyone cannot go to the school of his or her choice.  It would not be possible for everyone to go to the hospital or doctor of his or her choice either.</p>  <p>  There would have to be a degree of rationing when it comes to treatments, which is exactly what happens in the NHS.  Certain treatments are not available because they are not considered to be cost effective on a population basis and that is increasingly the trend across the world in those public health systems.  Unless we ban people from spending their own money on their health so that they can skip a queue, see a consultant or go to a hospital of their choice or get a treatment the Kremlin or whatever system is running the show does not consider to be cost effective, there will be some sort of private health insurance system.</p>  <p>  Once there is a private health system, albeit perhaps a supplementary one, it needs to be regulated.  We regulate health insurance in this country because we do not want to have a system like that in America.  We want a system that says whether a person is old, young, sick or healthy, he or she pays the same amount for the same policy.  That is what this legislation is about.</p>  <p>  Even if he were elected with an overall majority tomorrow and he decided to raise taxes by &euro;8 billion to introduce his socialist national health service system, it would still take Deputy Boyd Barrett time to do it.  It would take him five or ten years, if not 15 years, to do it.  In the meantime, he would need to have some sort of health insurance system in place.  If we stopped health insurance tomorrow morning, our public hospitals would immediately lose &euro;800 million.  Those hospitals get &euro;800 million in income from the health insurance system.  Deputy Boyd Barrett would still need to have this Bill during the transition period.  I, therefore, ask him to support it because so long as health insurance is not illegal, this Bill will ensure that in Ireland, the old pay the same as the young and the sick pay the same as the well for the same product.  If Deputy Boyd Barrett votes against the Bill, he votes against that principle.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.579" nospeaker="true" time="15:10:00" ><p>Question put and agreed to.</p></speech>
    <major-heading id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.580" nospeaker="true" time="15:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200040#MM00100">Harbours Bill 2015: Order for Report Stage</major-heading>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.581" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1007" speakername="Paschal Donohoe" time="15:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200040#MM00150"><p>I move: &quot;That Report Stage be taken now&quot;. </p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.582" nospeaker="true" time="15:20:00" ><p>Question put and agreed to.</p></speech>
    <major-heading id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.583" nospeaker="true" time="15:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200040#MM00400">Harbours Bill 2015: Report and Final Stages</major-heading>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.584" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1012" speakername="Derek Keating" time="15:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200040#MM00500"><p>Amendments Nos. 1, 5 to 13 inclusive, 15 to 19 inclusive, and 27 are related and will be discussed together.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.585" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="15:20:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200040#MM00600"><p>I move amendment No. 1:</p><blockquote>In page 6, between lines 15 and 16, to insert the following:&ldquo; &ldquo;Stakeholder and Community Group&rdquo; means a group comprising elected representatives of all harbour user groups as well as resident and community groups across the local authority area;&rdquo;.</blockquote><p>We discussed this at length on Committee Stage but I wish to take another opportunity in a more public Chamber, before the Bill passes, to summarise the concerns of the people of D&uacute;n Laoghaire, stakeholders in D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour and users of the harbour about its future and how this Bill will impact on it.  I urge the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport to respond to the concerns and aspirations of the wide variety of harbour users and stakeholders.  There is a widespread public consensus about what should happen to D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour which, sadly, has not been shared by the people who make decisions.  We have an odd situation whereby the dogs on the street and virtually everyone else shares a similar vision for what should happen in D&uacute;n Laoghaire but the plans for the development and day to day operations of the harbour are completely at odds with that.  This group of amendments is seeking to reconcile that contradiction so that the development, management and maintenance of the harbour is genuinely reflective of the users and stakeholders of the harbour.  The aim is to ensure that it is the  public and its representatives as well as users and stakeholders who determine the future of D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour.</p><p>The Minister will be aware that there is a controversial proposal by D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour Company to develop a giant cruise berth which will effectively cut D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour in half.  The development would involve a very significant incursion into the harbour in order to bring in giant cruise ships.  The proposal has generated significant controversy but I would emphasise that the issue is not just with the cruise berth but with what comes with it.  The cruise berth and cruise ships will have a significant impact on existing harbour users, including local boat clubs and sailing clubs.  It will also have an impact on the harbour as a visual amenity and affect over 1 million people who walk the pier every year.  The proposal could have a very significant environmental impact in terms of the dredging of the harbour, despite the fact that Dublin Bay has been designated a biosphere reserve by the UN.  There are numerous potential implications, some of which are not explicitly stated in the plan itself.  </p><p>The cost of this very significant plan to fundamentally change the character of the harbour is estimated by the proposers to be &euro;18 million but I believe that this is a gross underestimate.  The HSS terminal, for example, which was built over 20 years ago, cost &euro;22 million.  The idea that this giant cruise berth could cost less than that, 20 years on, stretches credibility to breaking point.  The money for this proposal will be borrowed using the assets of the harbour as collateral, a very dangerous gamble with public assets which will put the future of the harbour at risk.</p><p>We also know that in order to try to finance this big gamble, the D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour master plan has a number of other elements, most notably plans for hundreds of private apartments and a hotel at D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour.  This is not included in the current planning application but it is clearly stated in the D&uacute;n Laoghaire master plan that the giant cruise berth is contingent on the other elements of the master plan, in particular plans for hundreds of private apartments and a hotel on St. Michael's Pier.<br/><br/>That is a very dramatic intervention in regard to the harbour.  I feel strongly about it, as I have no doubt the vast majority of people do, judging from the huge numbers turning out at public meetings and the huge number of submissions that have been consistently made around this application and previous applications to put high-rise apartment blocks on Carlisle Pier.  At every single opportunity where members of the public have expressed their views, they have made it known they do not want large-scale private residential development at D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour.  This is because they recognise it will fundamentally alter the character of the harbour as a public amenity and will make those parts of that harbour where the development takes place exclusive and not available to the public.  It is just a simple fact.  People do not want that and yet the plan being put forward by the harbour company for the cruise berth is contingent on that development.<br/><br/>As I mentioned to the Minister on Committee Stage, it has been confirmed by D&uacute;n Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council that these two things come together and that we do not get one without the other.  The report produced in May last year by D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour Company states:</p><blockquote>The proposed urban regeneration of St. Michael's Pier is set out in the harbour master plan.  The harbour company contend that it will be essential to the economic viability of the harbour company into the future and it will be the financial driver of other projects identified in the master plan.</blockquote><p>In other words, the council is telling us it was informed by the harbour company that in order to deliver the cruise berth, it has to have the apartments, the hotel and so on at St. Michael's Pier and that one is the financial driver of the other.  However, this is not wanted by the people.<br/><br/>Although the Bill relates to more general matters, this is an example of why we need to develop plans for this harbour and every other harbour which are not dreamed up by a small cabal of unaccountable people but are developed by all of the genuine stakeholders - the people with knowledge of the harbour and the users of the harbour, who own the harbour, because it is a publicly owned harbour.  I want to underline that we welcome the move to have the harbour integrated into the council and, indeed, see it as a victory for the people in the area who campaigned over many years.  However, what this series of amendments is saying is that while welcoming the move, we want to make sure it is not just bringing the harbour under council control in name only.  We want it to represent a shift to real public control of the harbour so that the plans that are developed for the harbour genuinely reflect the views, aspirations, wishes and needs of the public and harbour users.<br/><br/>As against how the Bill construes the matter, what we want is that it should not be the CEO of the county council in conjunction or in collusion - whatever way one wants to put it - with the CEO of the harbour, which is a sort of quango or corporate subsidiary, who make the decisions, as has hitherto been the case.  We want elected representatives who are accountable to the people to make the key decisions about the harbour and we want them to do it in conjunction with all of the harbour users, of whom there are many, such as fishermen, boat clubs, rowing clubs, walkers, people who are concerned about the seafront as an environmental amenity and asset and those interested in the heritage and history of the harbour.  For example, one of the biggest societies in D&uacute;n Laoghaire is the history society, which has hundreds of people at its meetings because there is a very rich history, much of which centres on the harbour, which has an extraordinarily rich cultural heritage.  That is by no means an exhaustive list.  There are all sorts of people who have a real stake, real knowledge and real expertise in regard to the harbour.  We want those people to have a say in all decisions about the harbour.<br/><br/>I want to make it clear to the Minister, given there was some confusion during the Committee Stage debate, that in the end, it is the elected representatives who have to make the decisions because they are elected and accountable.  What we are asking is that they should do so in conjunction with a stakeholders group, not just with the CEO, who is not elected.  Much of this Bill gives much of the power to the CEO rather than to the elected representatives and the stakeholders group we are proposing.<br/><br/>I want to draw a contrast between the approach we are proposing and the approach that has been followed hitherto, which has led to the sort of plans that are so controversial and generally opposed by people in D&uacute;n Laoghaire.  For example, prior to the plan I have just referred to, there was a plan to put a ten-storey apartment block on Carlisle Pier and to put a floating barge from the canals of Berlin off the East Pier.  This was crazy stuff.  They wanted to put a barge with a swimming pool, taken from a canal in Berlin, inside a seawater harbour.  This is the sort of thing they came up, which nobody asked for.  In so far as members of the public would have any opinion about it, they have expressed opposition to this sort of plan.<br/><br/>The amendments propose to have a real stakeholders group but in fact, there was already a stakeholders group that came up with these plans.  Where did it come from?  From what I can see, it was appointed by the harbour company and by the executive of the council.  I thank the Minister for sending me the correspondence between his Department and the harbour company, which I just received yesterday and which I appreciate.  One of the letters is from the CEO, Gerry Dunne, explaining the setting up of the stakeholder group in 2010.  He simply says that &quot;we have just set up a stakeholder group&quot;.  By &quot;we&quot;, he means that he has.  This is presumably in conjunction with the county manager and included on that group is a representative of the chamber of commerce and the business improvement district.  Is that representative?  These are the people who have been driving the plans.<br/><br/>A lot of money has been spent on these plans.  Hundreds of thousands of euro, and possibly up to &euro;1 million, have been spent without any real reference to the diversity and vast array of genuine stakeholders I have mentioned, who have not had any input and who, by and large, oppose the plans that have been developed.  That is not a real stakeholder group.</p><p>What I call for through these amendments is for the Minister to legislate to ensure we have a genuine stakeholders' group so that the process is open and above board.  I want it to be transparent.  We know who the stakeholders, the harbour users and the community groups are and I want all of them included, not just a select few dictated from the top.  All of the groups should be included and all of their voices heard and they should try to reach a consensus with the elected representatives on the plans for the development, management and protection of the harbour.  This is an eminently reasonable proposal that would go a long way to healing the alienation that is so widespread between the public and political, council and semi-State authorities.</p> <p> This sense of alienation is quite widespread.  The people feel that they are always the last to know about plans, decisions and proposals, but they should be the first to know.  The people should be first to be asked and consulted.  They should be included at the ground floor in developing proposals.  That is what my amendments propose and I appeal to the Minister to accept what is an eminently reasonable, fair and progressive proposal for how we manage our harbour.  I believe this also applies to other harbours.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.588" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1073" speakername="John O'Mahony" time="15:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200042#OO00200"><p>I chaired the select committee that discussed Committee Stage of this Bill and wish to raise an issue concerning Galway Harbour.  I am not quite sure it is relevant to this section of the debate, but I raise it so we can deal with it now.</p>  <p>  A major plan for the development of Galway Port has already been submitted to the planning authorities, but this Bill has implications for that plan in the context of the criteria for the categorisation of ports and these could affect the decision made by the planning authorities.  Of all the major ports, Galway is to be categorised as a tier 3 port under the local authority, a categorisation based on tonnage and percentage of traffic.  However, the reason the port was not eligible for categorisation in a higher tier was its lack of development.  It is the only port in the country that one can walk from to the city centre in ten minutes, which offers huge potential.</p>  <p>  I am calling for the categorisation of ports that is included in this Bill to be put in abeyance until development applications already in the process are made, so that if planning permission is granted, those ports do not then find out they are excluded from certain streams of funding, such as TEN-T funding.  I urge the Minister to consider these points and to address them in his response.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.589" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1022" speakername="Dessie Ellis" time="15:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200042#OO00300"><p>By and large, I welcome the transfer of port companies to local authorities as it is important we provide a sound footing for many of these harbours.  Deputy Boyd Barrett has tabled a number of amendments in this regard and I wish to address some of the issues concerning D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour.  I welcome the transfer of D&uacute;n Laoghaire Port to the local authority and see the positives in that.  The proximity of D&uacute;n Laoghaire to Dublin Port is important and offers huge potential.  D&uacute;n Laoghaire Port also holds a unique, strategic position when it comes to maritime leisure and water sport assets.</p>  <p>  It is a pity that D&uacute;n Laoghaire Port no longer has significant commercial shipping revenue, unlike the other ports included in the Bill which have regular cargo shipping.  However, there is huge potential to consider this for D&uacute;n Laoghaire and hopefully the local authority will do that.  D&uacute;n Laoghaire has been a major venue for prestigious international yachting and caters for all ages.  Many international fetes have taken place there over the years.  The harbour is also in an exceptional position in the context of some of its long-established stakeholders, some of which are world renowned and have been operating there since the early 19th century.</p>  <p>  Special economic circumstances pertain in regard to D&uacute;n Laoghaire town and harbour.  I have visited the area many times and am aware how unique it is.  The harbour is a unique tourist asset for the greater Dublin area and has millions of visitors each year.  A variety of local communities use the harbour for offshore and onshore fishing, rowing, Irish language activity centres and sailing schools.  The area has a unique architectural heritage also, for example the 19th century internationally renowned harbour.  D&uacute;n Laoghaire is also of renown among the diaspora, given that more people emigrated from Ireland through the harbour than from any other place in the country from 1859 onwards.  These are significant pluses for D&uacute;n Laoghaire.</p>  <p>  There are huge concerns also in regard to the harbour.  The loss of shipping and of the ferry have had a commercial impact.  There is a fractious relationship between the various stakeholders, an issue that has been raised by Deputy Boyd Barrett.  Hopefully, the council will be better placed to tackle this issue.  There is also uncertainty in regard to the transfer process, with people concerned about job losses and whether the transfer will be an enhancement.  The commercial viability of the current harbour company is an issue that is also on the agenda.  Fears have been raised by commercial ratepayers and local property tax payers and there are fears of creeping privatisation.  Deputy Boyd Barrett mentioned some of the schemes that are planned for the harbour and I hope the council and councillors will consider these carefully.  There are fears that the area will be over developed to such an extent that D&uacute;n Laoghaire will no longer be unique.  There are also fears that there will be reduced public accessibility to the harbour area.  I hope that does not happen and feel confident that councillors will ensure it does not.  D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour has potential for the berthing of super cruise liners and what this could provide for the area should be explored. </p>  <p>  In regard to the perception that exists on the issue of governance and the accountability of local authorities to public representatives and local communities, this has been a huge issue.  Deputy Boyd Barrett refers in his amendments to the power of the CEO and I agree that we need an input into decisions from a number of stakeholders, including local and community representatives, residents and businesses.  People must be allowed to have a good input and decisions should not be left to the CEO.  The power of the CEO is one of the major issues in regard to the harbour.  We have often seen problems in Dublin City Council and other local authorities when managers used their executive powers to make decisions.  I and other Deputies have challenged such decisions in the past because we felt managers had too much power and could override the other councillors.</p>  <p>  There are a lot of fears in regard to this Bill, but there is also hope that it will bring improvements to D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour and other harbours around the country.  It is important that local authorities have a significant input.  I support the amendments.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.590" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1091" speakername="John Deasy" time="15:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200043#PP00100"><p>As I understand it, the Bill allows for the transfer of shareholdings in certain port companies to local authorities, and for the transfer of certain port companies to local authority control.  I support the premise.  The amendment refers to stakeholders and community groups and is about proper utilisation of ports.</p>  <p>  We dealt with fishing ports on the Committee of Public Accounts and I have experience with Waterford Port Company.  The control of State ports has in recent history been divested to entities of the State that may not have been the most suitable to manage them.  Sticking to fishing ports from Killybegs to Ros a Mh&iacute;l, Dingle, Castletownbere, Dunmore East, Kilmore Quay and up to Howth, for example, the Committee of Public Accounts went to Howth and took a look.  We had received correspondence from users in the port.  We found a lot of vacant buildings, yet people were trying to conduct business from the backs of vans.  The responsible Department at first was the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, and now it is the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine, which has made some strides.  It was awful; it was a desperate experience to have to deal with the old Department.</p>  <p>  Deputy Boyd Barrett talked about the harbour user meetings.  They are a box ticking exercise which occur every year and are completely unproductive.  They became an exercise in which the officials went in, listened to the individuals who use the ports, then left and did not really do anything afterwards.  That is a fact.  That is what we found.  It was the case not just in one isolated port but in a number of fishing ports.  The Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine has made really big strides.  When it came to the fishing ports, rents had not been collected for two years by the specific Department.  Agriculture has cleaned it up.  The Comptroller and Auditor General has been dealing with this for years.  It proves the point.</p>  <p>  Are we taking the ports and their potential seriously?  Frankly, we have not done so over the last ten or 15 years.  In the last five or six years there has been a recession, but we need to start looking at the ports as key infrastructure as far as development is concerned.  If that is the essence of getting the locals involved and using the ports properly, that has to be supported.  It is a valuable point which relates not just to D&uacute;n Laoghaire but also to ports like in Waterford and all the fishing ports.  That has been found to be the case.  It is not a matter of conjecture.</p>  <p>  It is a function of Government which could be an awful lot better, although it is improving.  Dunmore East is a fishing port which has been in a dreadful situation.  The buildings that were used for fishing factories are now, in many cases, completely shut.  They provided an awful lot of employment but have been vacant for a very long time.  There are legacy issues as far as arrears are concerned.</p>  <p>  A point not specifically an issue for the Department of Tourism, Transport and Sport, but for the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine in dealing with the fishing ports, is that the right State actors have not been involved in the ports.  For example, Enterprise Ireland, which I met about this, should have an input into these fish factories.  It should be able to tell people who are manufacturing fish products what the markets are in Europe and around the world and what can be achieved within the port buildings that are lying idle.  I met the head of Enterprise Ireland and have talked to the head of the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine and that process has started, although I do not know how indepth their discussions have been.  I know they have met a couple of times.  That really needs to be accelerated.  It is a practical point which would make the ports more productive for the economy.</p>  <p>  Our experience in Waterford has been dreadful.  The State port there was run into the ground by the management.  Ten years ago when Fianna F&aacute;il was in government, I asked for a management review and was completely ignored.  It has taken this Government to take it seriously and completely change senior management within the port - the CEO, the chairman of the board and most of the board itself.  That has been necessary.  It has taken too long but at least we have done it.  In the 1980s, our port in Waterford was one of the largest in Europe.  Tonnage-wise it was enormous but it was driven into the ground.  The warnings given to the last Administration fell on deaf ears.  Already we are seeing results from the new CEO.  Infrastructure is being developed across the board in Waterford Port and Dunmore East with the dredging there.</p>  <p>  The sense and premise of these amendments is something we have found to be correct in the Committee of Public Accounts with regard to the fishing ports.  It is not just my experience but was a lengthy process in which the Comptroller and Auditor General has been involved as well as the committee.  I support the sentiment of what is entailed in the amendments.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.591" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1007" speakername="Paschal Donohoe" time="15:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200043#PP00200"><p>I thank all the Deputies for their contributions and want to respond to some of their points in respect of individual ports, and to parts of the Bill which Deputy Boyd Barrett has highlighted with his amendment.  I will deal with some specific points before addressing the overall policy thrust which Deputy Boyd Barrett has proposed.</p>  <p>  As Deputy Deasy has acknowledged, this legislation deals with the ports that are under the remit of my Department.  I agree with him on the need to take ports very seriously and to acknowledge the contribution they make to our economic development.  I have been at pains to do this as Minister.  I have visited many of them myself, including Waterford Port in Deputy Deasy's constituency.  The maintenance of our ports - dredging, access, railway links and so on - is fundamental to our ability to trade as an open, small economy.  If we are unable to sell and export what we make or, more crucially, to deal with the products we take into our country and to which we can add value, our ability to grow in the future will be impaired.</p>  <p>  That is why I am putting forward this Bill for the support of the House.  It looks to build on the progress that was made earlier in this Government's tenure in developing a national port policy in which we have a clear strategy on the role of different ports, underpinned through primary law.  Regarding some of Deputy Deasy's comments on Waterford Port and its potential, it is one of our few ports, if not the only one, with a direct rail link onto the port itself.  I saw the potential for goods to be taken directly off vessels and put onto the freight line, which already does a lot of business with the Coca Cola plant in Ballina in County Mayo.  The port is also located beside Belview Industrial Park and, furthermore, I am aware of the kind of investment Glanbia has made in the region.  I saw all of this myself on my visit.</p><p> A new CEO and a new chairman are now in place.  I recently met the chairman.  There are great opportunities for this port to move forward.  In the past week or so, we have engaged with it in respect of how it might be access TEN-T funding in the future.  We have been successful in accessing European funding for many different parts of infrastructure in the country and I would like to see our ports accessing that funding as well.  I have had engagement with European bodies about it.  We want to work with the board and management team in Waterford Port to look at how it can grasp those kind of opportunities.  This links to a point I will make to Deputy O'Mahony.  We must work with the port to look at how we can develop it from a policy perspective.  If I look at its trading performance over the past 12 to 18 months, based on my engagement with the port, I can say that it does appear that in respect of some of the difficulties referred to by the Deputy in the past, it is trading more successfully than it had done previously.  Again, I know from dealing directly with it that it is looking at a number of business opportunities to see how it can move forward in an even more successful manner.  I look at the infrastructure it has from a rail link perspective and some of the investment that has clustered there recently.  That is the kind of potential that we need to support through a policy like this and the work I want to do with the port, which I have tried to do recently.</p> <p> In respect of Deputy O'Mahony's point about Galway Port, this again is a matter that we have debated in recent weeks in the committee of which he is a member as well as in this House.  I again emphasise that we have ports that are part of local authority structures all over Europe that are successful in drawing down and accessing TEN-T funding.  Rotterdam is the best example of this.  It is part of a local authority structure but because the criteria for accessing TEN-T funding are independent of this Bill and are in many ways independent of the policy we are setting here, it is still able to access that funding and is able to access it as part of a local authority structure.  I visited the port referred to by the Deputy.  I am well aware of its adjacency.  I understand the plans it has but I will not comment on them in the same way I will not comment on the plans referred to by Deputy Boyd Barrett because they are part of the latter stages of the planning process.  I can confirm that I am aware that there are a number of matters relating to that port that need to be resolved and moved forward, for example, due diligence.  I am certain that this port and ports of its scale are more successfully managed within the communities and regions in which they are located.  That is why I believe that embedding the port within a local authority structure is the best way in which it can be run, both in terms of the success of that from a trading perspective and in terms of its ability to be integrated into the development plans of the city and county.  </p> <p> I can confirm that neither I, nor, I believe, a future Minister will sign a Commencement Order to carry through with this Bill until the different processes to which I have referred are complete.  It is my expectation that it will take 18 months to work out the matters to which we have referred.  At the end of that period, the Commencement Order for that port will be signed.  </p> <p> If I take a step back to look at the broad points referred to by Deputies Ellis and Boyd Barrett, Deputy Boyd Barrett has acknowledged in recent weeks and again this evening that I agree with much of what he says.  I am clear in emphasising, and I have tried to do so again in response to Deputy O'Mahony, that I believe that ports of a certain scale and with certain uses are better managed within the local authority in which they are located.  I believe one will see a focus, an energy and a sense of ownership in these ports that can be good for their development.  In that, which is the broad thrust of what this Bill is about, I think Deputy Boyd Barrett has acknowledged that we agree.  I believe that D&uacute;n Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council and its members and executive offer the best framework within which the plans for the port can be achieved.  I look forward to seeing that happen.  </p> <p> I am not accepting the amendment put forward by the Deputy, which is the same amendment I spoke about on Committee Stage, for two reasons.  The first reason goes back to the matter I mentioned to the Deputy on Committee Stage.  It concerns how one defines a bona fide harbour group and a resident and community group and how it is done in primary legislation.  If, once we have enabled local authorities in the way I am proposing in this Bill, they want to go ahead with those processes and put those groups in place, that is their business.  As the units of Government that are closest in many cases to these matters, they can put in place structures like that.  I am making it very clear that within legislation, the primary area of the governance of those ports will be embedded within local authorities.  The reason why I do not believe it should be brought forward in primary legislation is because I believe that local authorities should be able to determine that themselves.</p> <p> With regard to what the Deputy is seeking to do in terms of striking a balance of power between the executive and the elected members, arguments with which I am very familiar, those areas are outside the remit of a Bill that is principally dealing with ports and harbours.  They are broader matters for consideration by the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government and his Department rather than myself.  </p> <p> That being said, I again draw the Deputy's attention to other sections of the Bill that include the provision for the chairperson and the CEO of the port and harbour to come before the local authority members.  I refer to the fact that the audited accounts of the port and harbour must be laid before the local authority and discussed there.  I also refer to the provision that any proposed chairperson must come before the local elected members.  In many ways, this Bill gives the same scope to members of the local authority that is available to Members of the Oireachtas and the relevant Oireachtas committee in respect of their ability to engage with the officers of the port and harbour if it is retained as a discrete unit within the local authority.  All those provisions will be there.  </p> <p> I will conclude on a point that will be relevant to a debate we will have later.  I will bring forward an amendment relating to section 21 of this Bill that has been prompted by the discussion we had on Committee Stage, in which I participated, as the Deputy knows, to bring in a mandatory review of a transferred company three years after its transfer.  If such a port is brought in and kept as such a unit, I will introduce an amendment that mandates a review of the accounts of that company and its performance three years after it has been brought into the local authority.</p><p>That is to further address the points the Deputy made about how to strengthen the relationship between the local authority and the port and harbour brought under it.  Deputy Ellis supported some of Deputy Boyd Barrett's points.  I am also aware, as is the Ceann Comhairle, of the great importance and historic significance of the port we are referring to and I completely appreciate its current value to the community in which it is located and to everybody who uses it.  However, I am genuine in my contention that this Bill, and its provisions, offer the best platform on which matters relevant to ports of that scale can be successfully dealt with.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.594" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="16:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200045#RR00200"><p>We welcome the broad thrust of this Bill.  It reflects a long-standing desire of all sorts of groups, stakeholders, users of the harbour to have more involvement in its development, protection and improvement.  I stated that on Committee Stage and the Minister acknowledged it.  I do not want it to be just a nominal move in that direction but to be a tangible change.  This centres on whether it remains in reality at a remove from any real public control by elected representatives, even if it comes under the council&rsquo;s remit, which it has been.  There was a bizarre situation at council meetings when the elected councillors who were on the harbour board walked out of council meetings when the harbour was being discussed because there was a conflict of interest when the board was a corporate entity.  We did not have oversight.  If we retain the corporate, separate, subsidiary model, then even though nominally the harbour comes under council control and is integrated with the town, which we all want, it is still a separate entity, which remains unaccountable, notwithstanding the reviews the Minister has talked about and the fact that it could come before the council, both of which I welcome.  Let us make sure, in so far as there are always people giving advice and input into these matters, that we have a standing arrangement whereby there is a genuine stakeholders group that the elected councillors and chief executive officers, CEOs should consult with.  I agree the selection of that group and who decides what is bona fide will be done at local level.  I am asking that the legislation state that at national level - Deputy Deasy echoed this point - it should be a requirement that the local authority has such a users and stakeholders group informing the discussion about the future, protection and development of the harbours.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.595" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1022" speakername="Dessie Ellis" time="16:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200045#RR00300"><p>We all agree with the Minister about the transfer to the local authorities.  I still do not fully understand how this transfer takes place when it comes to the company.  Will the CEO, even if he becomes an assistant manager, remain independent within the local authority?  I assume that is what we are talking about but I have not got a good grasp of how that will work with the input of the councillors who I assume will ask community groups, residents and businesses to give their input.  The council will have its own staff, apart from the councillors.  I do hope it is for the better.</p>  <p>  I am also conscious that there could be pending court actions.  How will that impact on this transfer?  Does that leave the council in any way liable? </p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.596" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1007" speakername="Paschal Donohoe" time="16:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200045#RR00400"><p>Deputy Boyd Barrett has spoken about the principle of setting up a consultation or stakeholder group but that does not cover all of his amendment.  His amendment also provides that the other amendments in this group replace references to the local authority chief executive with a reference to the elected council in consultation with the stakeholder and community group.  While the Deputy has understandably focused on the set-up of that group, he wants to give that group, along with the local authority, a set of powers which is wielded either by the CEO of the local authority or by the local authority members or both together.  In effect, he wants to change the way decisions on matters such as this are made within local authority units.  I cannot agree to a decision like that being made because I believe the CEO of the local authority will have a pivotal role in that and the CEO&rsquo;s relationship with the local authority members will be crucial.  If the local authority members want to put in place a group such as the Deputy refers to it is its business to do so.  We rarely hear the word "subsidiarity" in respect of port and harbour policy but I believe the local authority is the best level of governance for making decisions like that, instead of my saying it needs to do it.</p>  <p>  Deputy Ellis made a very good point about legal matters.  There is a due diligence process that needs to take place before the integration takes place that would deal with such issues.  As to how the ports and harbours will be integrated into the local authority, I and the Department must decide whether they are incorporated as single corporate entities or amalgamated in their entirety.  Through making that decision the matters the Deputy has raised will be dealt with.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.597" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="16:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200045#RR00500"><p>We have debated this issue extensively.  The decision to give precedence to the elected representatives in key areas of decision making around harbours, in this case, D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour, can only be made in this House.  It is fair to say that kind of decision might have to be taken in conjunction with the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government but we have well flagged this and every Government and every party is well aware that there is a desire and appetite for more power to be in the hands of elected representatives and maybe less in the hands of CEOs and county managers.  I am of that view.  In so far as this Bill concerns how we structure the relationship between local authorities and harbours, we want the pre-eminent say in that matter to be in the hands of elected representatives, who are accountable to the public, and that those elected representatives should be required simply to consult with a stakeholders&rsquo; group.  They will make the decision but will also have to consult.  There are two aspects to this, as against the provisions in the Bill that many of those powers and the final decision making will rest in the hands of the CEO who, with no disrespect to CEOs, is not accountable to the public.  This is a more thoroughgoing, democratic reform of a relationship between local authorities and, in this case, harbours.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.598" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1007" speakername="Paschal Donohoe" time="16:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200046#SS00100"><p>The chief executive officer is accountable to the local authority members.  Let me give the Deputy a practical example of how that power should be wielded.   Let us say I make the decision that a particular port be integrated in its entirety into the local authority structure.  Financial decisions regarding that port will then form part of the budget that is put to the local authority members and on which they will vote.  I cannot give a more tangible example of how I seek to empower both local authorities and local authority members than this.  If a decision that has a financial impact on the local authority becomes part of the local authority budget, which it will, the local authority members will then be obliged to vote on it.  I listened to the points made by Deputy Boyd Barrett on accountability.  Local authority members will be able to bring before them the chief executive officer of the port or harbour and will be able to question that officer like the Deputy can do to me.  This is precisely because what I seek to do is to recognise the role of local authorities as being best placed to deal with ports of a particular size and within this Bill, I make specific reference to the role of the members.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.599" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200046#SS00200"><p>I will put the question.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.600" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="16:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200046#SS00300"><p>To clarify, must Members now make a decision about the entire grouping?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.601" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200046#SS00400"><p>No, we will deal with amendment No. 1 now.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.602" nospeaker="true" time="16:15:00" ><p>Amendment put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.603" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200046#SS00600"><p>Amendments Nos. 2, 28 and 29 are related and will be discussed together.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.604" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="16:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200046#SS00700"><p>I move amendment No. 2:</p><blockquote>In page 8, between lines 17 and 18, to insert the following:&ldquo;(3) This section shall not apply to Dun Laoghaire Harbour.&rdquo;.</blockquote><p>I intend to call a few votes.  There are many amendments before the House.  An amendment on definitions did not seem to be the appropriate one on which to call a vote but I intend to call one on the issue of the stakeholders group to make the point that I believe Members should go that step further.  This series of amendments is more specific to D&uacute;n Laoghaire.  I am cognisant this Bill is not simply about D&uacute;n Laoghaire and while comments have been made about other ports, those areas must speak for themselves and I do not presume knowledge of those harbours and ports.  As for these three amendments I tabled with specific reference to D&uacute;n Laoghaire, I note the Minister has included other sections in the Bill that have provisions which are specific to particular ports.  Consequently, it is not unreasonable that there would be specific provisions regarding D&uacute;n Laoghaire.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.605" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1007" speakername="Paschal Donohoe" time="16:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200046#SS00800"><p>No.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.606" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="16:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200046#SS00900"><p>I believe it enhances the Bill to have specific provisions that recognise the particularities and the uniqueness of particular ports because although this Bill groups together a number of ports within a particular tier, when one considers the ports under discussion and when one hears some of the contributions made on the ports affected by this Bill, it still is the case that there is considerable diversity in that group of ports.  There are different histories, strengths and weaknesses, as well as all sorts of factors to do with location, etc., including the current balance of activities, commercial, recreational and so on, in each port.  These specific amendments to do with D&uacute;n Laoghaire are being tabled with reference to the specific character of D&uacute;n Laoghaire and what I am reasonably confident in stating is the majority-held view about the way forward for D&uacute;n Laoghaire.  I genuinely do not say this in a presumptuous way because although I did not attend the An Bord Plean&aacute;la hearing every day - I also was obliged to be in and out of the D&aacute;il - I spent three or four weeks at that hearing.  It was a highly informative gathering at which more than 130 submissions were made by individuals, groups, stakeholders, that is, by everybody really.  It was a significant number and the fact the hearing went on for four weeks tells its own story.  Originally, the An Bord Plean&aacute;la hearing on the application was due to take place over a couple of weeks but it went on for four weeks, such was the level of engagement by a wide variety of groups.  There also was a major engagement with the county development plan.  Incidentally, it is worth noting the spirit of these amendments is echoed to some extent by the decisions the elected members made recently in the context of putting together the draft development plan.  For example, councillors have voted that cruise ships longer than 250 m should not go into D&uacute;n Laoghaire.  This is what the majority of councillors have voted on and that reflects what I consider to be the majority opinion in the wider D&uacute;n Laoghaire area.  Indeed, that decision by the elected councillors is an example of democracy working because members of the public expressed their views at public meetings and in lobbying and in engaging with their local representatives and so on.  The local representatives of all parties and none listened to that and made a decision that I believe reflects what people do and do not want for the harbour.  This is how democracy should work and what these opinions have indicated clearly is that people are not happy with the corporate subsidiary structure, which previously was under the aegis of the Minister's Department but which will move to D&uacute;n Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council.  One option that is set out in this Bill essentially will leave that company corporate entity structure in place, albeit now with a new owner, namely, the council.  This, to put it simply, is not what people want.  They want that structure to be dissolved in order that the harbour comes fully under council control.</p>  <p>  I believe the Minister stated that were my view on this issue to prevail, he would look forward to how those with that view would be able to work out how to finance the maintenance and development of the harbour.  I would put the shoe on the other foot, as I believe a lot of money is being wasted because of the existing structure.  I estimate that if one looks at the accounts, there probably is approximately half a million euro per year going on executive salaries which it would not be necessary to spend were the harbour a fully integrated part of the council itself.  The front-line employees, such as the harbour police and the maintenance workers, simply would be transferred into the council and would become council employees, which I believe is what they want, and would retain their existing conditions and so on, as allowed for by the Bill and that is fine.  However, the harbour board and harbour executive structure is a cost one cannot stand over or justify.  I have had many engagements with the Minister and his predecessor about bonuses, salaries and so on.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.607" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200046#SS01000"><p>I am sorry to interrupt you Deputy but your amendment states: &quot;This section shall not apply to D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour&quot;.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.608" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="16:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200046#SS01100"><p>Yes.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.609" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200046#SS01200"><p>That pertains to the transfer of shareholding.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.610" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="16:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200046#SS01300"><p>Yes.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.611" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200046#SS01400"><p>So you are saying the shareholding should not transfer to D&uacute;n Laoghaire.  You do not give an alternative.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.612" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="16:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200046#SS01500"><p>Sorry, a Cheann Comhairle, but I will just to explain it.  The Bill is rather complex in that two options are set out in it, one of which is it would transfer as a corporate subsidiary and the other one is the existing harbour company would be dissolved and would be transferred to D&uacute;n Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council.  If the Ceann Comhairle looks at-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.613" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200046#SS01600"><p>Sorry for interrupting you but we must talk to the amendment that is here.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.614" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="16:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200046#SS01700"><p>I am.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.615" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200046#SS01800"><p>The amendment is that this section on the transfer of shareholding shall not apply to D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.616" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="16:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200046#SS01900"><p>This is a group of amendments and if the Ceann Comhairle reads amendment No. 29-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.617" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200046#SS02000"><p>Amendments Nos. 28 and 29 are related to amendment No. 2.</p><p>Amendment No. 2 is the primary-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.619" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="16:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200047#TT00200"><p>We are discussing amendments Nos. 2, 28 and 29.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.620" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200047#TT00300"><p>Yes.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.621" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="16:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200047#TT00400"><p>So, may I talk to amendment No. 28?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.622" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200047#TT00500"><p>You may, of course.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.623" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="16:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200047#TT00600"><p>Okay.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.624" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200047#TT00700"><p>Amendments Nos. 28 and 29.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.625" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="16:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200047#TT00800"><p>Amendment No. 29 proposes to insert:</p><blockquote>&ldquo;(2) In respect of Dun Laoghaire Harbour, the Minister shall with the consent of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, by order provide for&mdash;<blockquote><blockquote>(a) the dissolution without winding up of the company, and<br /><br />(b) the transfer of the company&rsquo;s harbour to Dun Laoghaire Rathdown County Council,</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><p>This proposes to dissolve the existing harbour company structure and put it in as a fully integrated part of D&uacute;n Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council, effectively as a department of the council.  That option may not be appropriate for other harbours.  That is the point on the technical matter.  I do not want to say that option should be ruled out for other harbours, but we are trying to rule out the option of retaining the harbour company as a corporate subsidiary for D&uacute;n Laoghaire.  That is the purpose of it.  I hope I am making myself clear on that.</p><p>One of the things that was discussed at the An Bord Plean&aacute;la meeting but also more generally was a way to connect the harbour to the town.  Everybody accepts that the town needs to be revitalised.  Everybody also understands that D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour is the jewel in the crown of the assets of D&uacute;n Laoghaire.  We somehow need to marry these things better so that they enhance each other and help revitalise a town that needs to be revitalised.</p><p>If that is what everybody wants and people from all sides express a desire to do it in any discussion on it, the logical follow-on from that is not to have two separate entities and rather have one entity.  If we retain the existing company structure, notionally the two bodies are under one umbrella, but in reality they are separate bodies.  The Minister might say there would still be a little more oversight - I accept that - of the council, the budgets and so on, but there will still be two separate bodies.</p><p>Cherrywood, as an example of this, will come into the frame fairly soon.  Cherrywood is run by a corporate subsidiary of D&uacute;n Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council.  So it is like option (a) as set out in amendment No. 29.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.626" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200047#TT00900"><p>The Deputy is straying from the port now.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.627" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="16:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200047#TT01000"><p>I am talking about examples of corporate subsidiaries.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.628" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200047#TT01100"><p>I know, but this is Report Stage of a Bill.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.629" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="16:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200047#TT01200"><p>And these are amendments-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.630" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200047#TT01300"><p>The Deputy must stick to-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.631" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="16:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200047#TT01400"><p>A Cheann Comhairle-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.632" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200047#TT01500"><p>This is not Second Stage.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.633" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="16:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200047#TT01600"><p>These are specific amendments.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.634" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200047#TT01700"><p>I know that.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.635" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="16:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200047#TT01800"><p>They are amendments about whether we have a corporate subsidiary model for D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour or whether we have it as fully integrated part of the council.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.636" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200047#TT01900"><p>We will have no travel up to Cherrywood at this time.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.637" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="16:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200047#TT02000"><p>Cherrywood is a corporate subsidiary.  It is an example of that model and so it is directly relevant.  The problem is that on a day-to-day basis, when it comes to an existing example of a corporate subsidiary under D&uacute;n Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council, the councillors and the public really do not have much say.  Once or twice a year they get a chance to talk about it and review it, but in reality they do not have much say or input.  Many people, including public representatives, do not know what is going on there.</p>  <p>  This has been the problem with D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour Company; we do not really know what is going on.  Plans have been hatched for years in the case of a cruise berth and master plans have been developed where we have not had real input from the elected representatives, the public, the stakeholders and the users.  That is what we are trying to rectify with these amendments.  The best way to achieve that is to dissolve the harbour company, forget about the corporate subsidiary model when it comes to the harbour and make it a fully integrated part of the council.</p>  <p>  I urge the Minister to accept this because it genuinely reflects the majority view in D&uacute;n Laoghaire among the public and stakeholders about what to do with D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.638" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1004" speakername="Mary Mitchell O'Connor" time="16:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200047#TT02100"><p>I wish to speak to amendments Nos. 2, 28 and 29.  I am specifically speaking to the Harbours Bill and not the An Bord Plean&aacute;la planning application, as I strongly believe that An Bord Plean&aacute;la is an independent planning entity which, thankfully, will make its determination independent of elected representatives, especially given planning corruption in the past.  Whatever decision An Bord Plean&aacute;la makes, it will be important for elected representatives to make their views knows regarding the borrowing of money from the European Investment Bank to finance any projects if planning permission is given and also regarding the safety of the harbour for which the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport has overarching responsibility.  I also have concerns about developments in the harbour.  I will be following up on these if planning permission is granted.</p>  <p>  I understand that elected councillors in D&uacute;n Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council are concerned over which option is regarded for our lovely harbour.  Is it correct that due diligence is being undertaken in respect of D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour Company?  What is the Minister's view of what should happen after due diligence?  Who will decide which option is chosen?  Will it be the local authority members or the chief executive of D&uacute;n Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council?  When will these decisions be made locally?</p>  <p>  Am I correct in my understanding that if the option to dissolve the harbour company is chosen, all liabilities, pensions and salaries of the harbour company employees will be transferred into the local authority?  If the revenue stream from D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour is not sustainable, will it need to be resourced directly from D&uacute;n Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council?  If D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour Company is losing money, does the Minister envisage the local property tax would be used to fund the harbour's commercial liabilities, especially if the income into the harbour does not cover costs, pensions and salaries?</p>  <p>  What new specific oversight functions will the Bill allow for?  Can we be assured there will be financial accountability under the mandatory review after three years that the Minister mentioned earlier?  I understand that under the current regime audited accounts are furnished annually to the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport.  What will be different as a result of the Bill?  Will elected local authority members be provided with these accounts annually?  Will the Oireachtas joint committee be able to call any future chairperson or CEO before the committee?  Am I correct in stating that this Harbours Bill will actually strengthen the oversight of accounts and annual returns?</p>  <p>  As a Deputy for D&uacute;n Laoghaire, I am deeply aware that the port is one of our greatest assets and therefore I want the very best for our port and our county.  I have received a number of representations and have raised many of the issues here today.</p>  <p>  What are the benefits of giving the two options the Minister has given in the Bill, rather than, at this stage, choosing the option of D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour Company coming under the direct management of the elected councillors?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.639" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1058" speakername="Patrick O'Donovan" time="16:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200047#TT02200"><p>As a member of the Select Sub-Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport, I want to speak about the Report Stage amendment that Deputy Boyd Barrett has tabled.  The amendment cuts to the core of future development policy of the port infrastructure network throughout the country.</p><p>During the tenure of the Minister, Deputy Paschal Donohoe, and that of his predecessor, we spent much time over a number of months in pre-legislative hearings engaging with stakeholders, port companies, port users and those who work in the ports.  The amendment before the House is related to the Schedule to the Bill, which is symbolic of the entire ports policy.  No two ports in the country are the same.  For the first time, the Government, through the interaction with the Joint Committee on Transport and Communications, has decided that the ports around the coastline should be categorised on the basis of the amount of commercial work and activity undertaken in them.  Rather than have the current legal situation where every port is essentially regarded as the same, some degree of rationalisation and categorisation is required in terms of the strategic, local and regional importance of the ports.  We spent much time in the committee sifting through the options.</p> <p> There was a bit of argy-bargy between representatives of the mid-west and of parts of the west who believed that the Shannon Foynes Port Company and the Galway Port Company, which is also mentioned in the Schedule to which Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett&rsquo;s amendment refers, are the same.  However, that is not the case because the Galway Port Company accounts for 1% of the total national tonnage and the Shannon Foynes Port Company accounts for 20% of the total national tonnage or about 10 million tonnes of bulk cargo per year.  The latter port is able to berth ships of more than 200 m with a draught of 10.5 m, in other words, huge ships.  Up to now we had a situation whereby ports with a totally different business case were treated the same.</p> <p> I raised in the committee the fact that a substantial part of the revenue in Galway Port was derived from the car park and another substantial part was derived from rental income. That is fine.  I have no difficulty with that, but it is at total variance with the business model in the Shannon Foynes Port.  I am sure it is also at variance with the business model in D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour.  After much deliberation with the Minister and his predecessor, it is on that basis the decision was made by the committee that some type of categorisation was required.  If a port has a local impact then who better than the local authority and its members, with local knowledge, to develop the port in the future?  On the flip side, if one has a port of strategic national importance in terms of tonnage such as Dublin Port, Cork Port and Shannon Foynes Port, it is very clear that their role is critical to the overall economic development of not only the local area or region but of the State as a whole.  I do not know whether it is intentional or otherwise, but if Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett&rsquo;s amendment were accepted it would unravel the entire ports policy.  That is the kernel of the matter.</p> <p> I understand the concern that has been expressed about the changes in governance in some of the local ports.  Deputy Mary Mitchell O&rsquo;Connor has enunciated this very well.  However, we have discussed a similar approach in terms of other elements of the public service as well.  It has been a difficult issue, for example, in terms of the health service where promises were made that services would be available at every four crossroads, to the detriment of people whereby their health was put at risk.  No more than one cannot have a cancer service at every four crossroads, one cannot have a national port in every harbour.  That is just not possible.  We do not have the resources or the tonnage, let alone the infrastructure.  We must ensure that when we invest in the infrastructure in terms of connecting ports such as D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour, Drogheda Port, Sligo Port and the other ports to which reference is made in the Schedule, that we do so in a strategic way that is of benefit to the economy.</p> <p> This morning on Leaders&rsquo; Questions a swipe was taken at my port by the leader of the day of Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett&rsquo;s group, namely, Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice, who said it was an absolute scandal that trans-European transport network, TEN-T, funding was being allocated to the Shannon Foynes Port Company to infill a jetty and carry out works in the port, which conveys in excess of 10 million tonnes of bulk cargo in and out of the State on a yearly basis.  I do not know what planet Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice inhabits, but I object in principle to anything that would in any way inflict damage on the potential to invest in a port on the west coast.  Shannon Foynes Port is not on the Irish Sea.  It is not in Cork or Waterford; it is very much part of the west coast.  Shannon Foynes Port is in the Shannon Estuary and it bounds counties Clare, Limerick and Kerry.  One cannot get much more westerly than that.  Any commentary from the Opposition benches through amendments to the Bill or ill-informed, politically charged, ignorant commentary, such as I heard this morning on Leaders&rsquo; Questions, does nothing to advance the case of smaller ports such as Galway Port, D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour, Sligo Port, Drogheda Port or anywhere else.  One is comparing apples with oranges.</p> <p> Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett&rsquo;s amendment flies in the face of everything we heard from stakeholders, business groups, those who bring in the ships, unload the ships, or use the port network.  All of those people told us about the constraints that exist currently, the associated difficulties, and the need to have a much more streamlined ports infrastructure.  Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett is correct.  To be honest, when one sees some of the costs incurred in certain smaller ports, one must ask oneself how in the name of God one could have a situation where a port, for instance, conveying less than 1% of the national tonnage could pay people salaries in excess of the chief executive officers of the local authority in the area.  That is bizarre.  I hope that following the introduction of the Bill there will be rationalisation in terms of such positions and an examination through the Committee of Public Accounts or this House of the inflated costs we see in some of the companies that up to now were stand-alone entities.  People were essentially running their own little fiefdoms and now they will be answerable to local authority members.  That is a good thing, in the same way as the Shannon Foynes Port Company and all of the other ports listed in the Schedule will have to answer to the Minister, as the shareholder, and his or her Accounting Officer, the Secretary General, in turn will have to answer to the Committee of Public Accounts.  What is wrong with a small port carrying small tonnage and small volumes of people being answerable to the local people who might know the port better than those who are in charge at the moment?</p> <p> That is the kernel of the policy and it is the policy that drove the design of the Bill.  The Bill did not come out of the back drawer of a cabinet in the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport; a great deal of work went into it from people who have a genuine interest in the issue.  In my part of the country we have the deepest port in the country.  It is probably one of the most important pieces of national infrastructure which has been long since strangled by the N69.  I am delighted that road has been included on the Government&rsquo;s capital programme to allow exactly what is specified in the Bill, namely, joined-up infrastructure between the ports and the road and rail networks.  That is what we need, namely, a small number of critical pieces of infrastructure in key locations that will be able to deliver key economic drivers to the State as a whole.</p> <p> I ask Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett, through the Chair, to ask Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice to reflect on the attack he made today on the Shannon Foynes Port Company and the investment that has been secured by it through the European Union.  It has not gone down well in the mid-west region-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.641" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200048#UU00200"><p>Let us stick to the Bill.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.642" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1058" speakername="Patrick O'Donovan" time="16:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200048#UU00300"><p>-----that an attack of that nature would be made in the House.  The reason I cannot agree with Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett&rsquo;s amendment is that it undermines the entire thrust of the ports policy.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.643" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200048#UU00400"><p>Does the Minister wish to respond?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.644" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1007" speakername="Paschal Donohoe" time="16:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200048#UU00500"><p>I do, a Cheann Comhairle.  </p>  <p>  I thank Deputies for the various comments and points they have made.  I will begin with what Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett said about his amendment to which I will speak directly.  I am not in a position to accept the amendment.  I will respond to the comments of Deputy Mary Mitchell O&rsquo;Connor.  The reason for that is a due diligence process is under way and it is only after the process is complete that the Minister of the day will then make a decision regarding the appropriate model.  It is not effective or appropriate before the process is complete to remove the power of the Minister to make a choice.</p><p> Regarding Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett's contention that if kept as an entity within the local authority structure, it should be separate.  The single shareholder will be the local authority.  I cannot understand how the Deputy can level the claim that they will be separate entities if the single shareholder will be the local authority.  We come back to this issue time and again.  I contend that the method of integration of the harbour into the local authority structure is as comprehensive as is possible.  It will be the single shareholder when the Bill is passed and the relevant provisions for that harbour are enacted.</p> <p> I refer to the points made by Deputy Mary Mitchell O'Connor on the status of D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour and acknowledge her long-standing interest in its future.  She has consistently raised matters with me privately and on the floor of the D&aacute;il by way of the Topical Issue debate regarding developments.  She asked whether a due diligence process was being undertaken.  It is under way.  What will happen once that process is complete feeds into the next question she asked about who will decide what the method of integration will be.  When the process is complete, that report is shared with the Minister and other relevant parties.  Following that, the Minister of the day will then make a decision regarding the method of integration.  That leads on to the Deputy's next question about where the liabilities, pensions and salaries of the harbour company will sit.  The answer to that question is that they will sit with the local authority.</p> <p> Deputy Mary Mitchell O'Connor asked what would happen if the revenue stream from D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour Company was not sustainable and whether it would have to be resourced directly from D&uacute;n Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council.  I am not in a position to answer that question specifically but I can give the Deputy the general answer which is that the revenue stream of that harbour company would be part of the revenue stream of the local authority into which it is integrated.  That feeds back to a point I made earlier that this would then be part of the vote of local authority members.  Would that, therefore, impact on funding and tax-raising choices that a local authority would make?  The answer to that question is "Yes" but they will be subject to the normal legal provisions regarding the way funding is discharged to entities that may be involved in commercial practices.  There is clear law regarding that with which I have dealt.  The revenue stream for the port and harbour would be part of the revenue stream of the local authority unit.</p> <p> Deputy Mary Mitchell O'Connor asked what the new specific oversight functions with respect to the Bill will be and whether I can be assured there will be financial accountability.  She also asked about the status of audited accounts.  There are a number of parts to the answer to those questions.  The point I made earlier regarding the financial consequences and accounts of that harbour will be part of everything the local authority will need to consider.  What new oversight functions will it put in place?  If a new chairperson is being appointed, he or she will have to appear before the members of the local authority.  The chairperson and chief executive will be subject to invitation and questioning from members of the local authority, as would be the case with many other corporate offices within a local authority structure, with which the Deputy is familiar.  The Deputy also asked me about the accounts.  The accounts will have to be laid before the local authority which would then open up opportunities for questions or matters to be raised.</p> <p> These are new oversight functions with respect to the Bill.  My Department will still be involved in matters relating to that.  The Bill continues to give the Minister of the day powers to issue directions, but these directions are targeted at a number of particular areas, particularly with regard to the implementation of national port policy as well as any matters regarding maritime or navigational safety.  If I have missed any of the questions the Deputy put to me, I am sure she will come back to them.</p> <p> As Deputy Patrick O'Donovan so eloquently put it in regard to the thrust of this Bill, it did not fall out of a cabinet drawer in my Department.  That is exactly the case.  This Bill is a consequence of set policy.  It fits directly into policy choices the Government and I have made.  Specifically, regarding ports of regional significance, it looks to underpin the governance model for those ports within the law of the Oireachtas.  It is congruent with the national ports policy the Government has championed.  As the Deputy said, it looks to recognise that each port and harbour has a role to play but due to size, location and previous performance, those roles can be different.  That is what this Bill is all about.</p> <p> I thank Deputy Patrick O'Donovan recognition for the national capital plan.  I have been very clear in regard to the principles I have articulated regarding how we should spend scarce future capital funding.  I strongly believe it should be used to link up existing pieces of economic infrastructure with our national road network which is the reason I recognised that in regard to the N69.  It is also the reason I played a role in allowing Shannon Foynes Port Company to access funding to consider how a rail link in terms of freight could be developed at some point in the future and to put in place the funding for a feasibility study in regard to that kind of work.  We need to explore all the options to see how our ports can be better linked up with the national road network.  That also informs the recognition I have given in regard to future access into the Ringaskiddy area-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.646" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200049#VV00200"><p>I have to bring the Minister back to the Bill.  We are dealing with an amendment.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.647" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1007" speakername="Paschal Donohoe" time="16:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200049#VV00300"><p>I am doing my best to respond to the points that have been put to me, a Cheann Comhairle.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.648" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200049#VV00400"><p>This is not Second Stage and the Minister will understand I have a job to do.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.649" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1007" speakername="Paschal Donohoe" time="16:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200049#VV00500"><p>I do.  I have done my best to respond to the points Deputies put to me.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.650" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="16:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200049#VV00600"><p>These amendments specifically relate to D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour.  While the Harbours Bill is an appropriate place to discuss Foynes Port and all the rest of it, the amendments deal with D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour, not Foynes Port or anywhere else.  I agree with the point made about the cost of inflated executive salaries and so on.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.651" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200049#VV00700"><p>Let us not talk about them.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.652" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="16:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200049#VV00800"><p>That is the point.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.653" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200049#VV00900"><p>Let us talk about D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.654" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="16:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200049#VV01000"><p>I am.  In D&uacute;n Laoghaire the chief executive receives &euro;136,000 a year, plus approximately &euro;20,000 on top for various extras.  The recommended salary for other-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.655" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200049#VV01100"><p>I am sorry, Deputy, but we are talking about an amendment, not about salaries.  Will the Deputy, please, not stray?  This is Report Stage.  Second and Committee Stages have been completed.  We are talking about Report Stage amendments.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.656" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="16:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200049#VV01200"><p>A Cheann Comhairle, I have to say-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.657" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200049#VV01300"><p>I am obliged to advise the Deputy of that fact.  That is my job.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.658" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="16:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200049#VV01400"><p>I am the only one whom the Ceann Comhairle has reminded of it.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.659" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200049#VV01500"><p>No, I reminded the Minister a minute ago-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.660" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1022" speakername="Dessie Ellis" time="16:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200049#VV01600"><p>The Ceann Comhairle reminded me also.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.661" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1058" speakername="Patrick O'Donovan" time="16:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200049#VV01700"><p>And me.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.662" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200049#VV01800"><p>I am reminding Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett.  He should not feel hard done by.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.663" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="16:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200049#VV01900"><p>I am speaking to the amendments.  I do not know why the Ceann Comhairle cuts across me when I am speaking specifically to the amendments.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.664" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200049#VV02000"><p>Will the Deputy, please, speak to the amendments?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.665" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="16:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200049#VV02100"><p>I am speaking specifically to them.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.666" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200049#VV02200"><p>The Deputy had two minutes, but he only has 34 seconds remaining.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.667" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="16:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200049#VV02300"><p>That is because the Ceann Comhairle spent a minute of that time cutting across me.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.668" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200049#VV02400"><p>The Deputy really gets my back up at times.  After four years, he knows as well as I do-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.669" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="16:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200049#VV02500"><p>It works both ways.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.670" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200049#VV02600"><p>-----what he can and cannot do on Report Stage.  Will he, please, speak to the amendments?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.671" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="16:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200049#VV02700"><p>I was speaking to them.</p><p>I was not going off them.  The Minister implied in his response that there was no difference between the two options.  He said he would not accept my amendments because he had them covered in the Bill, but that implies there are not two options.  The reason he has two options is they are different.  Perhaps we might discuss the differences.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.673" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200050#WW00200"><p>The Deputy's time is up.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.674" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="16:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200050#WW00300"><p>In one a corporate subsidiary is retained, while in the other there is not a separate corporate entity.  The Minister said there was not a separate corporate entity, but, if not, what is the difference?  The difference is there is a separate entity.  The existing separate, commercial corporate entity is retained under the umbrella of the council.  I do not know anything about Foynes port in this regard-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.675" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1058" speakername="Patrick O'Donovan" time="16:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200050#WW00400"><p>We know that.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.676" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="16:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200050#WW00500"><p>-----but in the specific case of D&uacute;n Laoghaire, we propose that this option be taken off the table.  We want full integration of the harbour company as a department of the council.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.677" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1004" speakername="Mary Mitchell O'Connor" time="16:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200050#WW00600"><p>I asked the Minister about local property tax and he responded by referring to revenue streams.  I am asking about revenue losses.  He stated local property tax and the revenue stream-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.678" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200050#WW00700"><p>The Deputy cannot talk about property tax.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.679" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1004" speakername="Mary Mitchell O'Connor" time="16:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200050#WW00800"><p>This is important.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.680" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200050#WW00900"><p>I know it is important, but the Deputy can only speak to the Report Stage amendments.  She cannot discuss the general principle.  The Minister was wrong to mention local property tax.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.681" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1004" speakername="Mary Mitchell O'Connor" time="16:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200050#WW01000"><p>I want to know who is going to pay for this.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.682" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="16:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200050#WW01100"><p>That has nothing to do with the amendment.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.683" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1004" speakername="Mary Mitchell O'Connor" time="16:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200050#WW01200"><p>If the amendment is accepted, who will pay for it?  Will it be householders who pay local property tax and commercial rate payers in the county?  If so, this is serious.  County councillors in our area are able to reduce local property tax by 15%.  If, for example, the local authority takes on the liabilities of D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour Company and has to pay salaries, pensions and so on, the residents of D&uacute;n Laoghaire will not want it.  The Ceann Comhairle knows as well as I do that people own small three-bedroom semi-detached houses in D&uacute;n Laoghaire and pay between &euro;600 and &euro;700 in local property tax.  They will not thank us if they have to pay the liabilities of the harbour company.  I would like the Minister to clarify the position.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.684" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1007" speakername="Paschal Donohoe" time="16:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200050#WW01300"><p>Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett contended that if the port was to be converted to a corporate entity, it would be separate from the local authority.  That will not be the case.  It will come within the local authority's remit and the best evidence I can offer is the fact that the single shareholder of such a port, were it to be brought inside a local authority unit, would be the local authority.  There is, of course, a difference between the two options outlined in the Bill, otherwise there would be no need to describe them.  There is a clear difference and I have always outlined it.  The Minister of the day will make a decision on what the integration method should be when the due diligence process relating to the ports is complete.</p>  <p>  With regard to Deputy Mary Mitchell O'Connor's question on local property tax and rates, I will not answer about the position in D&uacute;n Laoghaire specifically, but I will give a general response.  The general answer to the question is "Yes".  I have been dealing for a significant period with local authorities and representatives saying they want to run the ports themselves, that they want them inside their local authority areas.  If they have plans for what they want to do when bringing them inside their areas, they will have to be paid for.  That is why I asked Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett if he or his party had plans to develop D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour and who would pay for its development?  What is his party's view on how the local authority would pay for it?  The last time I checked, the Deputy wanted to abolish local property tax; I am not sure if that remains his view.  Clearly, such a decision would have a radical effect on the ability of a local authority to develop any asset in which it was the shareholder.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.685" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="16:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200050#WW01400"><p>Deputy Mary Mitchell O'Connor's question should be directed at the Minister because he has set out two options in his Bill.  They are not described in our amendments.  The passage of the Bill will mean that it will be in the Minister's gift to make a decision on which of the options will apply to D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour.  The first option is that D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour Company will continue to exist within the remit of D&uacute;n Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council, while the second is that the harbour company will cease to exist and be fully integrated into the local authority.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.686" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1004" speakername="Mary Mitchell O'Connor" time="16:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200050#WW01500"><p>Who would pay for it?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.687" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="16:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200050#WW01600"><p>Under both models, the council will pay.  That is what the Minister proposes and the Deputy should ask him who will pay for it, not me.  In either case because of what is proposed in the legislation, whatever happens in D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour will be paid for by the public.  It is a disingenuous red herring to suggest that if People Before Profit or Save our Seafront or whichever group gets its way, the public will be on the hook for increased local property tax rates because either way, that will be the case.</p>  <p>  The big issue is which vision for the harbour is more likely to cost the people of D&uacute;n Laoghaire or which more accurately reflects what they want.  That is what we need to discuss.  The plans that have been hatched for the harbour to date pose a much greater financial risk to the public than those for which the public have asked.  They have asked for a diaspora museum and baths; they have not asked to have a floating barge, or for apartments and hotels or a cruise berth for giant cruise ships.  The councillors have also not asked for a giant cruise berth.  One of the reasons they do not want it is they believe these plans pose a significant financial risk to the public.  It is estimated that &euro;18 million is required to build the berth, which we think is an under-estimate because it is more likely to cost between &euro;30 million and &euro;40 million.  The council and the public will cover the cost of the cruise berth under either proposal if it cannot wash its face financially.  This is a serious risk and it is not one that the people want to be taken because Dublin Port, 5 km up the road, is building a cruise berth to capture the same business.  Two publicly owned ports within a few kilometres of each other will compete for the same business and D&uacute;n Laoghaire is more likely to lose.  The tab for the crazy gamble on this cruise berth will be picked up by the public under either model.</p>  <p>  Our alternative is not to financially gamble or speculate with the assets of the harbour.  It is too risky and very likely to backfire on us in a big way, which will cost us.</p><p>The better, more sensible and sustainable alternative is not to spend large amounts of money on madcap gambles but to give the people the things for which they ask which would cost less and pose less of a financial risk.  A diaspora museum is a win-win proposal.  People have asked for it and wanted one for years and it fits in with the maritime history and heritage of D&uacute;n Laoghaire.  It would result in real and tangible extra footfall in people coming to a maritime museum in the area instead of people getting on buses and travelling to Glendalough.  Schoolchildren and others would visit it on a regular basis and it could be a national tourist attraction that would actually bring people to D&uacute;n Laoghaire.  Could we afford to have it or a national maritime and sailing school?  We already have proof that D&uacute;n Laoghaire is capable of hosting international sailing events with a huge footfall and which bring huge economic benefits to the town.  That has been proved.  Developing and enhancing that situation would be a win-win.  There would be far less risk, if any, involved with these proposals than with proposals that involve borrowing possibly tens of millions to gamble in a competition with Dublin Port for an international business that could go bang any day.  The cruise berth business is on the way up, but it could go bang very easily.  It is a big risk which is not worth taking and which nobody really wants to take.  That is our point.  Either way, it is the public who will finance and fund this.  Should we gamble and speculate with the assets of a public harbour?  Our answer is no.  </p> <p> The local authority has to make decisions about capital projects all the time.  It has money for capital projects and the people of D&uacute;n Laoghaire and their elected representatives will debate what should be prioritised.  There would be a lot of support for the capital projects for which the public have asked such as the baths, the diaspora museum and the national sailing centre instead of apartments, hotels and cruise berths.  Where did apartments and hotels leave the economy five or six years ago?  That is gambling.  What we propose would not be gambling; it is about protecting, maintaining and enhancing the harbour in a sustainable way.  That is actually what  the people have asked for.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.689/1" nospeaker="true" time="17:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200052#YY00100"><p>Amendment put:</p><p>The Dáil divided: Tá, 35; Níl, 74.</p><br/><p>Tellers: Tá, Deputies Dessie Ellis and Richard Boyd Barrett; Níl, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Paul Kehoe.</p></speech>
        <division id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.689/2" nospeaker="true" divdate="2015-12-02" time="17:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200052#YY00100">
            <divisioncount ayes="35" noes="74" />
                <mplist vote="aye">
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1199" vote="aye">Bobby Aylward</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" vote="aye">Richard Boyd Barrett</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1190" vote="aye">Tommy Broughan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1071" vote="aye">Dara Calleary</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1193" vote="aye">Joan Collins</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1057" vote="aye">Niall Collins</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1083" vote="aye">Michael Colreavy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1022" vote="aye">Dessie Ellis</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1047" vote="aye">Martin Ferris</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1198" vote="aye">Michael Fitzmaurice</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1050" vote="aye">Tom Fleming</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1108" vote="aye">Noel Grealish</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1094" vote="aye">John Halligan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/960" vote="aye">S&eacute;amus Healy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1049" vote="aye">Michael Healy-Rae</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1188" vote="aye">Colm Keaveney</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/983" vote="aye">Billy Kelleher</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/945" vote="aye">S&eacute;amus Kirk</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/999" vote="aye">Charlie McConalogue</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1090" vote="aye">Mattie McGrath</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/993" vote="aye">Michael McGrath</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/965" vote="aye">John McGuinness</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/981" vote="aye">Sandra McLellan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/987" vote="aye">Michael Moynihan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1197" vote="aye">Paul Murphy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1044" vote="aye">&Eacute;amon &Oacute; Cu&iacute;v</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1054" vote="aye">Se&aacute;n &Oacute; Feargha&iacute;l</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1028" vote="aye">Aengus &Oacute; Snodaigh</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/984" vote="aye">Jonathan O'Brien</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1005" vote="aye">Maureen O'Sullivan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1001" vote="aye">Thomas Pringle</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/953" vote="aye">Shane Ross</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/970" vote="aye">Brendan Smith</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1102" vote="aye">Brian Stanley</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1080" vote="aye">Peadar T&oacute;ib&iacute;n</mpname>
                </mplist>
                <mplist vote="no">
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1062" vote="no">James Bannon</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/980" vote="no">Tom Barry</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1016" vote="no">Richard Bruton</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/946" vote="no">Joan Burton</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1079" vote="no">Ray Butler</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/989" vote="no">Jerry Buttimer</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1029" vote="no">Catherine Byrne</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1042" vote="no">Ciar&aacute;n Cannon</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/975" vote="no">Joe Carey</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1092" vote="no">Paudie Coffey</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1031" vote="no">Michael Conaghan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1041" vote="no">Paul Connaughton</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1093" vote="no">Ciara Conway</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1087" vote="no">Noel Coonan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1099" vote="no">Marcella Corcoran Kennedy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1006" vote="no">Joe Costello</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1091" vote="no">John Deasy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1046" vote="no">Jimmy Deenihan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/968" vote="no">Pat Deering</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1075" vote="no">Regina Doherty</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1007" vote="no">Paschal Donohoe</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1011" vote="no">Robert Dowds</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/957" vote="no">Bernard Durkan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1078" vote="no">Damien English</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1014" vote="no">Alan Farrell</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1085" vote="no">Frank Feighan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1105" vote="no">Anne Ferris</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1068" vote="no">Peter Fitzpatrick</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1051" vote="no">Brendan Griffin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1076" vote="no">Dominic Hannigan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/995" vote="no">Noel Harrington</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1106" vote="no">Simon Harris</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/949" vote="no">Martin Heydon</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1097" vote="no">Brendan Howlin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1012" vote="no">Derek Keating</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1098" vote="no">Paul Kehoe</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1088" vote="no">Alan Kelly</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1072" vote="no">Enda Kenny</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1021" vote="no">Se&aacute;n Kenny</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1110" vote="no">Se&aacute;n Kyne</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/982" vote="no">Kathleen Lynch</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/996" vote="no">Michael McCarthy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1180" vote="no">Helen McEntee</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1194" vote="no">Gabrielle McFadden</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1000" vote="no">Dinny McGinley</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/997" vote="no">Joe McHugh</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1082" vote="no">Tony McLoughlin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/977" vote="no">Michael McNamara</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1004" vote="no">Mary Mitchell O'Connor</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1070" vote="no">Michelle Mulherin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/985" vote="no">Dara Murphy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1056" vote="no">Dan Neville</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1045" vote="no">Derek Nolan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1018" vote="no">Aodh&aacute;n &Oacute; R&iacute;ord&aacute;in</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1058" vote="no">Patrick O'Donovan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1069" vote="no">Fergus O'Dowd</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1073" vote="no">John O'Mahony</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/971" vote="no">Joe O'Reilly</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1061" vote="no">Jan O'Sullivan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1081" vote="no">John Perry</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/964" vote="no">Ann Phelan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1035" vote="no">Ruairi Quinn</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/947" vote="no">Pat Rabbitte</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/952" vote="no">James Reilly</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1074" vote="no">Michael Ring</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1013" vote="no">Brendan  Ryan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1025" vote="no">Alan Shatter</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1048" vote="no">Arthur Spring</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/961" vote="no">Emmet Stagg</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/978" vote="no">David Stanton</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1207" vote="no">Billy Timmins</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/948" vote="no">Leo Varadkar</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/950" vote="no">Jack Wall</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1024" vote="no">Alex White</mpname>
                </mplist>
        </division>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.689/3" nospeaker="true" time="17:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200052#YY00100"><p>Amendment declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.690" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1000" speakername="Dinny McGinley" time="17:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200052#YY00200"><p>Amendments Nos.3 and 4 are related and will be discussed together.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.691" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="17:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200052#YY00300"><p>I move amendment No. 3:</p><blockquote>In page 8, lines 19 to 22, to delete all words from and including &ldquo;Subject&rdquo; in line 19 down to and including line 22 and substitute the following:&ldquo;Subject to <i>paragraphs (b) </i>and <i>(c)</i>, a local authority chief executive may not sell, transfer, exchange, surrender or otherwise dispose of any shares vested in the local authority of which he or she is the chief executive by order made under <i>section 8</i>.&rdquo;.</blockquote><p>This is a straightforward amendment to remove the power and right of the chief executive officer of the local authority to sell shares in the newly transferred company.  It is an anti-privatisation amendment.</p><p>It is an anti-privatisation amendment which arises from a concern that, if the corporate subsidiary model prevails, the borrowing of money by a semi-State entity, or off balance sheet financing as it is known, will lead to the divestment of shares and, ultimately, a process of creeping privatisation where, in order to finance anything, one will have to sell shares.  We will be on a slippery slope.  </p> <p> At a local level there is evidence that the process is beginning to get under way.  Certain sites and physical parts of the harbour are being put up for sale.  I fear that if the harbour is pushed in this commercially focused and oriented direction, rather than being seen primarily as a public amenity, the pressure will be on to sell shares to finance projects within the harbour.  This is the direction in which I think it will go, but, with this amendment, I am trying to preclude that possibility.  These are vital pieces of infrastructure and amenities and we should not be considering their sale.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.693" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1004" speakername="Mary Mitchell O'Connor" time="17:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200053#ZZ00200"><p>I am listening very carefully and, in case any one thinks otherwise, I, too, am very supportive of the provision of a diaspora centre, about which I have spoken in this Chamber on a number of occasions.</p>  <p>  We have two options in company law.  Although we will not do it, if we were to vote in this House for a company structure to be dissolved and for county councillors to take over, am I right in saying the county council would immediately take on the liabilities of the company and that if the company structure stays in place, all of the assets and liabilities will stay within the company structure?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.694" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1007" speakername="Paschal Donohoe" time="17:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200053#ZZ00300"><p>I agree broadly with the point made by Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett that no local authority chief executive alone should have the power to dispose of shares in a port or harbour.  That is why I have two particular provisions in the Bill.  The first provides that such a disposal could only happen with the consent of the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport.  Consent would have to be sought from Departments before such a share disposal could happen.</p>  <p>  The second condition is perhaps more fundamental.  It provides that such a disposal could never exceed 49% of the available shares within the company.  The assets of importance to the country such as airports and ports should remain in majority public ownership.  That is the reason for the provision.  I differ strongly from the Deputy when he implies that because something is a public asset or seeks to deliver an amenity value, it does not have to be aware of commercial challenges or deliver on commercial mandates.  Any facility or asset run by the taxpayer or privately has to be aware of its ability to fund itself and meet needs for any company in public ownership.  Such facilities have to be able to pay their way.  They have to be able to raise money to cover their own costs and pay for investment they look to deliver.  </p>  <p>  That leads neatly to the specific question posed by Deputy Mary Mitchell O'Connor.  The short answer to her question is "Yes."  If a company transfers, the assets and liabilities remain within it.  If it is completely integrated into the local authority, they will be integrated into the local authority.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.695" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="17:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200053#ZZ00400"><p>On the company law point, that is true, but the bottom line is that it still falls back on the council either way.  Even if, technically, the liabilities do not transfer directly to the council, ultimately, it will still pick up the tab if anything goes wrong.  It will be the guarantor of everything.  Have we not learned this at a macro level?  When we give guarantees and so on, we end up picking up the tab.  Even if the corporate subsidiary model prevails, the capacity of D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour Company to raise money will be substantially dependent and contingent on the fact that D&uacute;n Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council is standing behind it.  We will pick up the tab if anything goes wrong.  I do not see the difference, except that in the corporate subsidiary model we take the risk, but we do not have as much say about the plans.  In the model we are advocating the public would still be the ultimate financier, but they would have a more direct say on what we would invest in and the development plans and priorities for the harbour and the way it was run.  It would be more transparent, accountable and democratic to do it in that way.</p>  <p>  On the Minister's point about public ownership and other pieces of infrastructure, we could have a general ideological argument, but let us not go there now.  In the case of D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour, although the Bill relates to other harbours also, where there is pressure to come up with development proposals and finance them, one way to do it would be to bring in private partners.  I think that is what the Minister is leaving it open to doing.  If private partners are brought in, they will begin to have a significant say about what goes at the harbour.  Otherwise they would not put the money in.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.696" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1000" speakername="Dinny McGinley" time="17:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200053#ZZ00500"><p>Will the Deputy, please, conclude?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.697" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="17:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200053#ZZ00600"><p>Their decision to put money in would be dictated by their ability to get a return.  In the case of something like a harbour this would be a slippery slope towards the creeping privatisation of the harbour through the back door.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.698" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1007" speakername="Paschal Donohoe" time="17:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200053#ZZ00700"><p>The explanation I gave earlier is quite important.  This is based in company law and, for the life of me, I cannot understand why the Deputy would look to remove the ability of the Minister to make a decision before a due diligence process was complete.  There is a key and fundamental difference within company law between transferring an entity into a local authority and allowing it to remain as a company versus integrating it completely.  I am sorry I did not have an opportunity to make this point earlier because the amendment was put to a vote, but for the Deputy to say that, before the due diligence process is complete, he wants to remove the ability of the Minister to decide how integration would happen flies in the face of some of the earlier points he made to me about the need for financial sustainability and to understand what was going on in ports and harbours all over the country.</p><p>There is a fundamental difference between an entity which is a company and one which is not.  The Deputy does not want to get into a broader ideological debate, but I am happy to do so if the Acting Chairman will allow it.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.700" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="17:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200054#AAA00200"><p>Let us do it.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.701" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1007" speakername="Paschal Donohoe" time="17:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200054#AAA00300"><p>I am happy to do so.  The Deputy is fundamentally against private investment playing any role in supporting development within the country.  Under the Bill, 51% of the harbour will be owned, directly or indirectly, by the State.  It will remain in public ownership.  Of course, if the people running it, whether that be the directors of the company or the local authority, believe there is an opportunity to develop the facility to the benefit of people who use it and of the company, the Deputy is against the private sector having any role to play in that regard.  That is a coherent point of view for the Deputy to hold and I respect it, as he well knows, but we must accept that private investment can and does play a role in moving forward harbours all over the country.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.702" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1004" speakername="Mary Mitchell O'Connor" time="17:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200054#AAA00400"><p>Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett is against the private sector investing in the harbour, but I am against local property tax and commercial rate payers funding the harbour.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.703" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="17:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200054#AAA00450"><p>How do we get to the kernel of this issue?  The Minister made reference to due diligence earlier and during the Committee Stage debate I pointed out that the due diligence process was obstructed.  Local councillors were told recently that due diligence is unable to proceed because of commercial sensitivity.  That is the kernel of the problem.  The harbour  is seen as a commercially focused, corporate entity which is why we cannot get full information about what is going on or about its assets and liabilities.  This goes to the heart of the problem in D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour and explains why people are so angry about the plans the company has come up with and why they are so opposed to them.  Nobody really knows what is going on.  The company is unaccountable.  </p><p>I cannot speak for the other harbours in the country.  Perhaps this structure works there, but I have my doubts.  Certainly, what Deputy John Deasy said about the situation in Waterford seems to echo what I have been saying about D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour.  I will not comment on them because I do not know enough about it.  However, in D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour, it has reached the point where the ability of the Bill to be effectively enacted is now being blocked because of so-called commercial sensitivity.  </p><p>I thanked the Minister, quite genuinely, for sending me the departmental correspondence <i>vis-&agrave;-vis</i>the cruise berth.  However, there was one aspect of that correspondence which I found very interesting and I ask the Minister to enlighten me on it, if he can.  In the relatively recent correspondence between the Department and the harbour company, two of the three proposals the company made for the harbour are blacked out.  The proposals are redacted.  I do not know what they are but would argue that this is important information.  I would like to know, as would those in the Visitors Gallery and those who attended hearings and public meetings, what the harbour company wants to do with the harbour.  However, in correspondence I received from the Minister, he cannot tell me.  Why?  It is because of the corporate structure and this is the price one pays when one sets up a semi-privatised entity.  </p><p>The management of D&uacute;n Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council has explained that the due diligence process has been prevented from continuing.  I do not know how this issue will be resolved.  The council has stated it is not sure how it will be resolved but that it is committed to resolving it.  On the basis of some of the Minister's earlier comments, I gather that it will be some time before we get a decision because the due diligence cannot proceed at present and could take a very long time.  In the interim, we do not know what the harbour company wants to do on some matters.  What we do know, however, is that it wants to take a huge financial gamble.  It has already spent &euro;600,000 on a planning application to which there is huge public opposition.  Things are happening, facts are being created on the ground and in the harbour which people do not want, yet we cannot get full information about the financial status of the harbour or the company's plans for it.  That is not satisfactory or acceptable.  </p><p>The Minister said all public assets must keep financial considerations in mind and must have the ability to wash their own face but Killiney Hill, for example, does not do that and neither does Howth Head.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.704" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1007" speakername="Paschal Donohoe" time="17:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200054#AAA00500"><p>They are not comparable.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.705" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="17:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200054#AAA00600"><p>Of course, a harbour is not Killiney Hill, but there is a mix of imperatives involved and the balance of these imperatives depends on the particular harbour.  D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour has traditionally been half and half, so to speak.  It has been a public amenity for heritage, sport and recreation as well as a commercial port.  There is a balance to be maintained and I accept that this makes the question of governance a bit more complicated.  I am not being flippant or glib about this, but it is not acceptable that the heritage and amenity aspect of the harbour, the Killiney Hill aspect if one will, which is sacrosanct for so many, is under threat.  If the Minister suggested building apartments on Killiney Hill or Howth Head, people would tear his head off, to put it bluntly.  They would simply say, "That's not on."  There is that same feeling about D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour.  People accept and indeed support the idea that the harbour has a commercial life but they believe that the balance between its commercial life and its historic position as an amenity owned by the public must be maintained in a sustainable and tenable way.  However, that is not happening and the governance structures that exist in what is effectively a semi-State quango, mean that the balance is being threatened and undermined.  The public is being excluded.  Getting rid of this corporate subsidiary structure and fully integrating the harbour into the council is the way to resolve this issue in order that we can have joined up, connected thinking and prevent any possibility of the harbour being privatised.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.706" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1004" speakername="Mary Mitchell O'Connor" time="17:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200054#AAA00700"><p>On a point of order, I asked earlier if due diligence was taking place and the Minister said it was.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.707" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1000" speakername="Dinny McGinley" time="17:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200054#AAA00800"><p>That is not a point of order.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.708" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1004" speakername="Mary Mitchell O'Connor" time="17:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200054#AAA00900"><p>I ask the Minister to clarify whether due diligence is taking place.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.709" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1000" speakername="Dinny McGinley" time="17:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200054#AAA01000"><p>I am sorry, but I am obliged to put the amendment to the House.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.710/1" nospeaker="true" time="17:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200055#BBB00200"><p>Amendment put:</p><p>The Dáil divided: Tá, 38; Níl, 65.</p><br/><p>Tellers: Tá, Deputies Aengus Ó Snodaigh and Richard Boyd Barrett; Níl, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Paul Kehoe.</p></speech>
        <division id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.710/2" nospeaker="true" divdate="2015-12-02" time="17:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200055#BBB00200">
            <divisioncount ayes="38" noes="65" />
                <mplist vote="aye">
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1066" vote="aye">Gerry Adams</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1199" vote="aye">Bobby Aylward</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" vote="aye">Richard Boyd Barrett</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1190" vote="aye">Tommy Broughan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1071" vote="aye">Dara Calleary</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1193" vote="aye">Joan Collins</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1057" vote="aye">Niall Collins</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1083" vote="aye">Michael Colreavy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1195" vote="aye">Ruth Coppinger</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1037" vote="aye">Se&aacute;n Crowe</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/976" vote="aye">Timmy Dooley</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1047" vote="aye">Martin Ferris</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1198" vote="aye">Michael Fitzmaurice</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1100" vote="aye">Se&aacute;n Fleming</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1050" vote="aye">Tom Fleming</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1108" vote="aye">Noel Grealish</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1094" vote="aye">John Halligan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/960" vote="aye">S&eacute;amus Healy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1049" vote="aye">Michael Healy-Rae</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1188" vote="aye">Colm Keaveney</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/945" vote="aye">S&eacute;amus Kirk</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1040" vote="aye">Michael Kitt</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/999" vote="aye">Charlie McConalogue</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1090" vote="aye">Mattie McGrath</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/993" vote="aye">Michael McGrath</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/965" vote="aye">John McGuinness</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/981" vote="aye">Sandra McLellan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1197" vote="aye">Paul Murphy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1044" vote="aye">&Eacute;amon &Oacute; Cu&iacute;v</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1054" vote="aye">Se&aacute;n &Oacute; Feargha&iacute;l</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1028" vote="aye">Aengus &Oacute; Snodaigh</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/984" vote="aye">Jonathan O'Brien</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1005" vote="aye">Maureen O'Sullivan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1001" vote="aye">Thomas Pringle</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/953" vote="aye">Shane Ross</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/970" vote="aye">Brendan Smith</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1102" vote="aye">Brian Stanley</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1080" vote="aye">Peadar T&oacute;ib&iacute;n</mpname>
                </mplist>
                <mplist vote="no">
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1062" vote="no">James Bannon</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/980" vote="no">Tom Barry</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1016" vote="no">Richard Bruton</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1079" vote="no">Ray Butler</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/989" vote="no">Jerry Buttimer</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1029" vote="no">Catherine Byrne</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1042" vote="no">Ciar&aacute;n Cannon</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/975" vote="no">Joe Carey</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1092" vote="no">Paudie Coffey</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1031" vote="no">Michael Conaghan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1041" vote="no">Paul Connaughton</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1093" vote="no">Ciara Conway</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1087" vote="no">Noel Coonan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1099" vote="no">Marcella Corcoran Kennedy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1006" vote="no">Joe Costello</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/986" vote="no">Michael Creed</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1091" vote="no">John Deasy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1046" vote="no">Jimmy Deenihan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/968" vote="no">Pat Deering</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1075" vote="no">Regina Doherty</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1007" vote="no">Paschal Donohoe</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1011" vote="no">Robert Dowds</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/957" vote="no">Bernard Durkan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1078" vote="no">Damien English</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1085" vote="no">Frank Feighan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1068" vote="no">Peter Fitzpatrick</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1055" vote="no">Charles Flanagan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1051" vote="no">Brendan Griffin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/995" vote="no">Noel Harrington</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1106" vote="no">Simon Harris</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/949" vote="no">Martin Heydon</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1012" vote="no">Derek Keating</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1098" vote="no">Paul Kehoe</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1021" vote="no">Se&aacute;n Kenny</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1110" vote="no">Se&aacute;n Kyne</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/982" vote="no">Kathleen Lynch</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/996" vote="no">Michael McCarthy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1180" vote="no">Helen McEntee</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1194" vote="no">Gabrielle McFadden</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1000" vote="no">Dinny McGinley</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1082" vote="no">Tony McLoughlin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/977" vote="no">Michael McNamara</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1004" vote="no">Mary Mitchell O'Connor</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1070" vote="no">Michelle Mulherin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/985" vote="no">Dara Murphy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1056" vote="no">Dan Neville</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1045" vote="no">Derek Nolan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1058" vote="no">Patrick O'Donovan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1069" vote="no">Fergus O'Dowd</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1073" vote="no">John O'Mahony</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/971" vote="no">Joe O'Reilly</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1061" vote="no">Jan O'Sullivan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1081" vote="no">John Perry</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/964" vote="no">Ann Phelan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/966" vote="no">John Paul Phelan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/947" vote="no">Pat Rabbitte</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1074" vote="no">Michael Ring</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1013" vote="no">Brendan  Ryan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1025" vote="no">Alan Shatter</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1048" vote="no">Arthur Spring</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/961" vote="no">Emmet Stagg</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/978" vote="no">David Stanton</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1207" vote="no">Billy Timmins</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/948" vote="no">Leo Varadkar</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/950" vote="no">Jack Wall</mpname>
                </mplist>
        </division>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.710/3" nospeaker="true" time="17:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200055#BBB00200"><p>Amendment declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.711" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="17:40:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200056#CCC00100"><p>I move amendment No. 4:</p><blockquote>In page 8, to delete lines 23 to 38, and in page 9, to delete lines 1 to 30.</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.712" nospeaker="true" time="17:40:00" ><p>Amendment put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.713" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="17:40:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200056#CCC00300"><p>I move amendment No. 5:</p><blockquote>In page 9, line 33, to delete &ldquo;local authority chief executive&rdquo; and substitute &ldquo;Elected Council in consultation with Stakeholder and Community Group&rdquo;.</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.714/1" nospeaker="true" time="17:40:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200056#CCC00400"><p>Amendment put:</p><p>The Dáil divided: Tá, 37; Níl, 68.</p><br/><p>Tellers: Tá, Deputies Richard Boyd Barrett and Aengus Ó Snodaigh; Níl, Deputies Paul Kehoe and Emmet Stagg.</p></speech>
        <division id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.714/2" nospeaker="true" divdate="2015-12-02" time="17:40:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200056#CCC00400">
            <divisioncount ayes="37" noes="68" />
                <mplist vote="aye">
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1066" vote="aye">Gerry Adams</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1199" vote="aye">Bobby Aylward</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" vote="aye">Richard Boyd Barrett</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1190" vote="aye">Tommy Broughan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1071" vote="aye">Dara Calleary</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1193" vote="aye">Joan Collins</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1083" vote="aye">Michael Colreavy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1195" vote="aye">Ruth Coppinger</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1037" vote="aye">Se&aacute;n Crowe</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/976" vote="aye">Timmy Dooley</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1047" vote="aye">Martin Ferris</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1198" vote="aye">Michael Fitzmaurice</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1100" vote="aye">Se&aacute;n Fleming</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1050" vote="aye">Tom Fleming</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1108" vote="aye">Noel Grealish</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1094" vote="aye">John Halligan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/960" vote="aye">S&eacute;amus Healy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1049" vote="aye">Michael Healy-Rae</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1188" vote="aye">Colm Keaveney</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/945" vote="aye">S&eacute;amus Kirk</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1040" vote="aye">Michael Kitt</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/998" vote="aye">P&aacute;draig MacLochlainn</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/999" vote="aye">Charlie McConalogue</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1090" vote="aye">Mattie McGrath</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/993" vote="aye">Michael McGrath</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/965" vote="aye">John McGuinness</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/981" vote="aye">Sandra McLellan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1197" vote="aye">Paul Murphy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1044" vote="aye">&Eacute;amon &Oacute; Cu&iacute;v</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1054" vote="aye">Se&aacute;n &Oacute; Feargha&iacute;l</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1028" vote="aye">Aengus &Oacute; Snodaigh</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/984" vote="aye">Jonathan O'Brien</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1005" vote="aye">Maureen O'Sullivan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1001" vote="aye">Thomas Pringle</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/970" vote="aye">Brendan Smith</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1102" vote="aye">Brian Stanley</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1080" vote="aye">Peadar T&oacute;ib&iacute;n</mpname>
                </mplist>
                <mplist vote="no">
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1062" vote="no">James Bannon</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/980" vote="no">Tom Barry</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1016" vote="no">Richard Bruton</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1079" vote="no">Ray Butler</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/989" vote="no">Jerry Buttimer</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1029" vote="no">Catherine Byrne</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1042" vote="no">Ciar&aacute;n Cannon</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/975" vote="no">Joe Carey</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1092" vote="no">Paudie Coffey</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1031" vote="no">Michael Conaghan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1041" vote="no">Paul Connaughton</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1093" vote="no">Ciara Conway</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1087" vote="no">Noel Coonan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1099" vote="no">Marcella Corcoran Kennedy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1006" vote="no">Joe Costello</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/986" vote="no">Michael Creed</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1091" vote="no">John Deasy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1046" vote="no">Jimmy Deenihan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/968" vote="no">Pat Deering</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1075" vote="no">Regina Doherty</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1007" vote="no">Paschal Donohoe</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1011" vote="no">Robert Dowds</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/957" vote="no">Bernard Durkan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1078" vote="no">Damien English</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1014" vote="no">Alan Farrell</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1085" vote="no">Frank Feighan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1068" vote="no">Peter Fitzpatrick</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1055" vote="no">Charles Flanagan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1051" vote="no">Brendan Griffin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1076" vote="no">Dominic Hannigan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/995" vote="no">Noel Harrington</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1106" vote="no">Simon Harris</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/949" vote="no">Martin Heydon</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1097" vote="no">Brendan Howlin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1012" vote="no">Derek Keating</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1098" vote="no">Paul Kehoe</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1021" vote="no">Se&aacute;n Kenny</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1110" vote="no">Se&aacute;n Kyne</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/982" vote="no">Kathleen Lynch</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/996" vote="no">Michael McCarthy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1180" vote="no">Helen McEntee</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1194" vote="no">Gabrielle McFadden</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1000" vote="no">Dinny McGinley</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1082" vote="no">Tony McLoughlin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/977" vote="no">Michael McNamara</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1004" vote="no">Mary Mitchell O'Connor</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1070" vote="no">Michelle Mulherin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/985" vote="no">Dara Murphy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1056" vote="no">Dan Neville</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1045" vote="no">Derek Nolan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1058" vote="no">Patrick O'Donovan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1069" vote="no">Fergus O'Dowd</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1073" vote="no">John O'Mahony</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/971" vote="no">Joe O'Reilly</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1061" vote="no">Jan O'Sullivan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1081" vote="no">John Perry</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/964" vote="no">Ann Phelan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/966" vote="no">John Paul Phelan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/947" vote="no">Pat Rabbitte</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1074" vote="no">Michael Ring</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1013" vote="no">Brendan  Ryan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1025" vote="no">Alan Shatter</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1048" vote="no">Arthur Spring</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/961" vote="no">Emmet Stagg</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/978" vote="no">David Stanton</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1207" vote="no">Billy Timmins</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/948" vote="no">Leo Varadkar</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/950" vote="no">Jack Wall</mpname>
                </mplist>
        </division>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.714/3" nospeaker="true" time="17:40:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200056#CCC00400"><p>Amendment declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.715" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="17:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200057#DDD00100"><p>I move amendment No. 6:</p><blockquote>In page 10, line 19, to delete &ldquo;local authority chief executive&rdquo; and substitute &ldquo;Elected Council in consultation with Stakeholder and Community Group&rdquo;.</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.716" nospeaker="true" time="17:45:00" ><p>Amendment put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.717" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="17:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200057#DDD00300"><p>I move amendment No. 7:</p><blockquote>In page 10, line 30, to delete &ldquo;local authority chief executive&rdquo; and substitute &ldquo;Elected Council in consultation with Stakeholder and Community Group&rdquo;.</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.718" nospeaker="true" time="17:45:00" ><p>Amendment put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.719" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="17:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200057#DDD00500"><p>I move amendment No. 8:</p><blockquote>In page 10, line 34, to delete &ldquo;local authority chief executive&rdquo; and substitute &ldquo;Elected Council in consultation with Stakeholder and Community Group&rdquo;.</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.720" nospeaker="true" time="17:45:00" ><p>Amendment put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.721" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="17:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200057#DDD00700"><p>I move amendment No. 9:</p><blockquote>In page 11, line 17, to delete &ldquo;local authority chief executive&rdquo; and substitute &ldquo;Elected Council in consultation with Stakeholder and Community Group&rdquo;.</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.722" nospeaker="true" time="17:45:00" ><p>Amendment put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.723" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="17:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200057#DDD00900"><p>I move amendment No. 10:</p><blockquote>In page 11, lines 25 and 26, to delete &ldquo;local authority chief executive&rdquo; and substitute &ldquo;Elected Council in consultation with Stakeholder and Community Group&rdquo;.</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.724" nospeaker="true" time="17:45:00" ><p>Amendment put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.725" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="17:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200057#DDD01100"><p>I move amendment No. 11:</p><blockquote>In page 11, line 30, to delete &ldquo;directors of the transferred company&rdquo; and substitute &ldquo;Elected Council in consultation with Stakeholder and Community Group&rdquo;.</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.726" nospeaker="true" time="17:45:00" ><p>Amendment put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.727" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="17:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200057#DDD01300"><p>I move amendment No. 12:</p><blockquote>In page 12, line 5, to delete &ldquo;local authority chief executive&rdquo; and substitute &ldquo;Elected Council in consultation with Stakeholder and Community Group&rdquo;.</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.728" nospeaker="true" time="17:45:00" ><p>Amendment put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.729" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="17:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200057#DDD01500"><p>I move amendment No. 13:</p><blockquote>In page 12, line 37, to delete &ldquo;local authority chief executive&rdquo; and substitute &ldquo;Elected Council in consultation with Stakeholder and Community Group&rdquo;.</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.730" nospeaker="true" time="17:45:00" ><p>Amendment put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.731" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="17:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200057#DDD01700"><p>I move amendment No. 14:</p><blockquote>In page 13, to delete lines 9 to 18.</blockquote><p>As time is running out and the debate is to be guillotined, I will go through these amendments very quickly.  This amendment is about the Minister being able to authorise borrowings by the harbour that exceed 50% of the value of the assets.  The Minister has what he might call a safeguard to provide that one cannot borrow more than 50% of the value of the assets.  Although that is a safeguard of some kind, I am worried about the borrowing already taking place and which may continue.  We had a discussion about the shares and so on.  This relates to my fear of a slippery slope whereby the assets of harbours would be put up for sale to finance risky and dangerous projects.  I have talked at length about the fact that we think one such project is under way in D&uacute;n Laoghaire and could put the assets of the harbour seriously at risk.  While I welcome some safeguard, it does not go as far as I would like.  I do not think we should put public assets of this sort at risk.</p><p>Having included some safeguard, the Minister is leaving open the option to remove it.  I do not think he should do this in the Bill.  We should not risk the assets of harbours and ports and the Minister certainly should not have the power to risk more than 50% of the value of these assets on dangerous gambles.  This provision is a safeguard against privatisation, whether it be as a result of a conscious decision or inadvertently as a consequence of a dangerous financial gamble.  Such a consequence is equally a great threat when companies are allowed to borrow lots of money to fund speculative ventures.  We simply should not give the Minister the power to go over the 50% ceiling. </p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.732" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1007" speakername="Paschal Donohoe" time="17:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200057#DDD01800"><p>I made the broad point to the Deputy that not all expenditure of private money was a gamble; not all investments are speculative.  We have seen, to our cost, how the abuse of large sums of money caused great difficulty for the State.  Nevertheless, not all investments that look to make a return are speculative.</p>  <p>  The Deputy has acknowledged that the Bill has a threshold in place such that borrowings cannot exceed 50% of the value of the transferred company's assets.  The Bill provides for a change in one of two ways.  It could either be in respect of a specific amount of money or up to the 50% threshold.  However, this can only happen with the consent of the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government and such consent can only be given in circumstances in which there is a very good business case and plan for allowing the threshold to be changed.  We have a threshold embedded in the legislation, which threshold can only be changed with the Minister's consent.  The Minister would, of course, also be subject to questions about that decision.  I, therefore, argue that we do have a structure in place to make sure future borrowings and investments will be made in a responsible manner, with the right levels of oversight.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.733" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="17:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200057#DDD01900"><p>Time is against us and I know that Deputy &Eacute;amon &Oacute; Cu&iacute;v wants to contribute.  I will just say I disagree with the Minister as I think it leaves the door open to privatisation.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.734" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1040" speakername="Michael Kitt" time="17:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200057#DDD02000"><p>Is the Deputy withdrawing the amendment?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.735" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="17:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200057#DDD02100"><p>No, I am pressing it.  I am trying to short-circuit the debate in order that we can move on to the next amendment.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.736" nospeaker="true" time="17:45:00" ><p>Amendment put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.737" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="17:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200057#DDD02300"><p>I move amendment No. 15:</p><blockquote>In page 13, lines 25 and 26, to delete &ldquo;local authority chief executive&rdquo; and substitute &ldquo;Elected Council in consultation with Stakeholder and Community Group&rdquo;.</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.738" nospeaker="true" time="17:45:00" ><p>Amendment put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.739" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="17:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200057#DDD02500"><p>I move amendment No. 16:</p><blockquote>In page 13, line 28, to delete &ldquo;local authority chief executive&rdquo; and substitute &ldquo;Elected Council in consultation with Stakeholder and Community Group&rdquo;.</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.740" nospeaker="true" time="17:45:00" ><p>Amendment put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.741" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="17:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200057#DDD02700"><p>I move amendment No. 17:</p><blockquote>In page 13, line 30, to delete &ldquo;local authority chief executive&rdquo; and substitute &ldquo;Elected Council in consultation with Stakeholder and Community Group&rdquo;.</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.742" nospeaker="true" time="17:45:00" ><p>Amendment put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.743" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="17:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200057#DDD02900"><p>I move amendment No. 18:</p><blockquote>In page 13, line 31, to delete &ldquo;local authority chief executive&rdquo; and substitute &ldquo;Elected Council in consultation with Stakeholder and Community Group&rdquo;.</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.744" nospeaker="true" time="17:45:00" ><p>Amendment put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.745" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="17:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200058#EEE00100"><p>I move amendment No. 19:</p><blockquote>In page 13, line 39, to delete &quot;local authority chief executive&quot; and substitute &quot;Elected Council in consultation with Stakeholder and Community Group&quot;.</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.746" nospeaker="true" time="17:55:00" ><p>Amendment put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.747" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1040" speakername="Michael Kitt" time="17:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200058#EEE00300"><p>As amendment No. 21 is a physical alternative to amendment No. 20, they may be discussed together.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.748" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1007" speakername="Paschal Donohoe" time="17:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200058#EEE00400"><p>I move amendment No. 20:</p><blockquote>In page 15, to delete lines 35 to 37, and in page 16, to delete lines 1 to 9 and substitute the following:<b>&quot;21.</b>(1) A local authority chief executive&mdash;<blockquote><blockquote>(a) shall at the end of the period of 3 years beginning on the company transfer day of a company to the local authority of which he or she is its chief executive, and<br /><br />(b) may at the end of each subsequent period of 5 years beginning on the expiration of the last previous period, appoint a suitably qualified person to carry out an examination as to the efficiency and cost-effectiveness of the performance by the transferred company of its functions and to report in writing to the local authority chief executive of the results of the examination.</blockquote>(2) Any examination and report referred to in <i>subsection (1)</i>shall be completed by the person appointed under that subsection within the period of 4 months from the date of his or her appointment.&quot;.</blockquote></blockquote><p>This amendment arises from a number of discussions we had on Committee Stage.  The principle on which I want to follow up is that following a transfer and after a suitable period of time, a stock-take and an assessment should be carried out to look at the performance of the transferred company.  I accept that this is a valid point and I am bringing forward my own amendment to deal with it.  I am seeking to have the section amended to require a performance review of a transferred company three years after the date of transfer.  Of course, a further review could take place after that, but that would be the decision of the local authority.  I am saying the Bill should require a financial review of a transferred company to be carried out after a reasonable period of time has elapsed after the transfer of the company.  </p><p>I am also seeking to have two other changes made.  I am seeking to have extended the period between statutory reviews from three years to five and to have shortened the maximum time period to complete a review from six months to four because I believe the work should be carried out within that time period.  </p><p>Both amendments seem sensible, given the size of the companies in question.  I am responding to some of the points made by Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett, in particular, on Committee Stage.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.749" nospeaker="true" time="17:55:00" ><p>Amendment put and declared carried.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.750" nospeaker="true" time="17:55:00" ><p>Amendment No. 21 not moved.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.751" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1040" speakername="Michael Kitt" time="17:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200058#EEE00700"><p>Amendments Nos. 22 to 26, inclusive, and No. 30 are related and may be discussed together.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.752" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="17:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200058#EEE00800"><p>I move amendment No. 22:</p><blockquote>In page 18, line 9, to delete &quot;30&quot; and substitute &quot;10&quot;.</blockquote><p>This amendment relates to the representation of workers on the board of any company.  As the Minister knows, I hope the harbour company will be dissolved.  If that does not happen and the Minister ultimately decides to keep its structure, the question will arise as to whether there should be an employee representative on the board.  The Minister is saying the threshold to be reached to have an employee representative on the board is 30 employees.  In the case of our harbour company and I suspect that of others that might well mean ordinary workers would not have a representative on the board because staff numbers have fallen because of an aggressive offensive by the executives of D&uacute;n Laoghaire Harbour Company to axe jobs at a time when their salaries stayed obscenely high.  As I mentioned earlier, it involves the CEO of a company with about 20 employees being paid &euro;136,000 per year, plus a car and so on, but staff being axed.  With this threshold, there would be no worker director on the board.  We need people from the shop floor - front-line staff who are saving lives in the case of our harbour - on the board.  Many attempted suicides in D&uacute;n Laoghaire have been prevented by the harbour police, the numbers of which have been slashed, while the number of maintenance workers has been reduced.  These are the people who physically maintain the harbour.  If the Minister is to maintain the company structure which I hope he will not, there should be worker representatives on the board and the threshold should be brought down to ten to ensure this would be the case.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.753" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1007" speakername="Paschal Donohoe" time="17:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200058#EEE00900"><p>I wish to outline the two scenarios at play in respect of ports and the numbers of employees in them.  An election is held in a company with more than 30 employees.  Where a company has fewer than 30 employees, the shareholder, currently the Minister but in the future the local authority, is required to appoint a person to the board to represent the employees' interests.  In such a situation, there would be an obligation to consult the unions, as I have done.  If I look at the five ports of regional significance, just two - D&uacute;n Laoghaire and Galway - satisfy that threshold.  With the provision in place, there is an obligation to appoint somebody to the board to represent the interests of the employees.  In that case, there will have to be consultation with a union or unions.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.754" nospeaker="true" time="17:55:00" ><p>Amendment put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.755" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="17:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200058#EEE01100"><p>I move amendment No. 23:</p><blockquote>In page 18, line 30, to delete &quot;30&quot; and substitute &quot;10&quot;.</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.756" nospeaker="true" time="17:55:00" ><p>Amendment put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.757" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="17:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200058#EEE01300"><p>I move amendment No. 24:</p><blockquote>In page 18, line 36, to delete &quot;A local authority chief executive&quot; and substitute &quot;The employees through an election&quot;.</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.758" nospeaker="true" time="17:55:00" ><p>Amendment put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.759" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="17:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200058#EEE01500"><p>I move amendment No. 25:</p><blockquote>In page 18, line 38, to delete &quot;, in the opinion of that chief executive,&quot;.</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.760" nospeaker="true" time="17:55:00" ><p>Amendment put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.761" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="17:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200058#EEE01700"><p>I move amendment No. 26:</p><blockquote>In page 19, line 1, to delete &quot;consider&quot; and substitute &quot;accept&quot;.</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.762" nospeaker="true" time="17:55:00" ><p>Amendment put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.763" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="17:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200058#EEE01900"><p>I move amendment No. 27:</p><blockquote>In page 23, line 35, to delete &quot;A local authority chief executive&quot; and substitute &quot;An Elected Council in consultation with Stakeholder and Community Group&quot;.</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.764" nospeaker="true" time="17:55:00" ><p>Amendment put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.765" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="17:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200058#EEE02100"><p>I move amendment No. 28:</p><blockquote>In page 24, line 10, after &quot;<i>Schedule 1</i>,&quot; where it firstly occurs to insert &quot;subject to <i>subsection (2)</i>,&quot;.</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.766" nospeaker="true" time="17:55:00" ><p>Amendment put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.767" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="17:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200058#EEE02300"><p>I move amendment No. 29:</p><blockquote>In page 24, between lines 16 and 17, to insert the following:&quot;(2) In respect of Dun Laoghaire Harbour, the Minister shall with the consent of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and the Minister for the Environment,<br /><br />Community and Local Government, by order provide for&mdash;<blockquote>(a) the dissolution without winding up of the company, and<br /><br />(b) the transfer of the company&rsquo;s harbour to Dun Laoghaire Rathdown County Council, on such a day as the Minister appoints in the order in this Act referred to as a company transfer and dissolution day.&quot;.</blockquote></blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.768" nospeaker="true" time="17:55:00" ><p>Amendment put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.769" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="17:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200058#EEE02500"><p>I move amendment No. 30:</p><blockquote>In page 34, line 30, to delete &quot;30&quot; and substitute &quot;10&quot;.</blockquote></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.770" nospeaker="true" time="17:55:00" ><p>Amendment put and declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.771" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1044" speakername="&Eacute;amon &Oacute; Cu&iacute;v" time="17:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200058#EEE02700"><p>I move amendment No. 31:</p><blockquote>In page 47, to delete line 6.</blockquote><p>I listened to the debate earlier when Deputy John O'Mahony raised an issue with the Minister about Galway Port.  I congratulate the Deputy on securing a stay of 18 months on the decision of the Minister in the Bill to downgrade Galway Port.  The Minister has said it is a great idea to have ports under the aegis of local authorities.  However, if one follows the logic that it is great to be a tier 3 as opposed to a tier 2 or tier 1 port, why will Cork, Rosslare, Waterford, Foynes and Dublin ports continue to have port companies instead of being placed under the local authorities?  Is it because the Minister believes the major national ports should be independent and have stand-alone companies rather than being under the aegis of the local authorities?  What he is clearly telling us is that there is no need to have a major national port, either now or in the future, between Foynes and Derry on the longest stretch of coast in the country, but so be it; that is his decision.  </p><p>It is welcome that the Minister has said he will put a stay of 18 months on this decision.  It is particularly welcome that this will give the electorate in Galway an opportunity to indicate in their choice as to who should be in government whether it thinks this is a good policy and to vote to make sure at the end of the 18 months the Government will not be in power to see it through.  </p><p>I know the public service.  It is very determined when it has a policy in mind and good luck to it.  I know that many of its members sincerely believe that along the west coast there should not be national ports, national airports, national roads and all the rest, which is fair enough.  They measure everything by current traffic volumes rather than by what they might be in the future.  A quote from George Bernard Shaw reads, &quot;Some men see things as they are and say, why; I dream things that never were and say, why not?&quot;  In the case of Galway Port the answer is quite simple.  It is a gated port into which one can only get in two hours with every tide.  Therefore, it is important that we give the Minister's colleagues from the west an opportunity to stand in solidarity with the people of Galway.</p><p>Next spring the people will have an opportunity to stand up for themselves in a general election when they will be able to ensure they elect people who do not believe Galway should be left with a regional port but that it should have a national port, that the threatened downgrading the Minister is providing for in the Bill will make it much harder to raise the necessary finance to develop the port in the way we are to develop it.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.773" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1040" speakername="Michael Kitt" time="18:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200059#FFF00200"><p>As it is now 7.30 p.m., I am required to put the following question in accordance with the order of the D&aacute;il of this day: &ldquo;That Fourth Stage is hereby completed and that the Bill is hereby passed.&rdquo;</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.774/1" nospeaker="true" time="18:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200059#FFF00250"><p>Question put:</p><p>The Dáil divided: Tá, 77; Níl, 16.</p><br/><p>Tellers: Tá, Deputies Paul Kehoe and Emmet Stagg; Níl, Deputies Éamon Ó Cuív and Seán Ó Fearghaíl.</p></speech>
        <division id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.774/2" nospeaker="true" divdate="2015-12-02" time="18:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200059#FFF00250">
            <divisioncount ayes="77" noes="16" />
                <mplist vote="aye">
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1062" vote="aye">James Bannon</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" vote="aye">Richard Boyd Barrett</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1016" vote="aye">Richard Bruton</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1079" vote="aye">Ray Butler</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/989" vote="aye">Jerry Buttimer</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1029" vote="aye">Catherine Byrne</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1030" vote="aye">Eric Byrne</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1042" vote="aye">Ciar&aacute;n Cannon</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/975" vote="aye">Joe Carey</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1092" vote="aye">Paudie Coffey</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1193" vote="aye">Joan Collins</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1031" vote="aye">Michael Conaghan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1041" vote="aye">Paul Connaughton</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1093" vote="aye">Ciara Conway</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1087" vote="aye">Noel Coonan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1195" vote="aye">Ruth Coppinger</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1099" vote="aye">Marcella Corcoran Kennedy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/986" vote="aye">Michael Creed</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1037" vote="aye">Se&aacute;n Crowe</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1046" vote="aye">Jimmy Deenihan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/968" vote="aye">Pat Deering</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1007" vote="aye">Paschal Donohoe</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1011" vote="aye">Robert Dowds</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/957" vote="aye">Bernard Durkan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1078" vote="aye">Damien English</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1014" vote="aye">Alan Farrell</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1085" vote="aye">Frank Feighan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1198" vote="aye">Michael Fitzmaurice</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1068" vote="aye">Peter Fitzpatrick</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1055" vote="aye">Charles Flanagan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1050" vote="aye">Tom Fleming</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1051" vote="aye">Brendan Griffin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1076" vote="aye">Dominic Hannigan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/995" vote="aye">Noel Harrington</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1106" vote="aye">Simon Harris</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/949" vote="aye">Martin Heydon</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1097" vote="aye">Brendan Howlin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1012" vote="aye">Derek Keating</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1188" vote="aye">Colm Keaveney</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1098" vote="aye">Paul Kehoe</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1021" vote="aye">Se&aacute;n Kenny</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1110" vote="aye">Se&aacute;n Kyne</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/982" vote="aye">Kathleen Lynch</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/998" vote="aye">P&aacute;draig MacLochlainn</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/996" vote="aye">Michael McCarthy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1180" vote="aye">Helen McEntee</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1194" vote="aye">Gabrielle McFadden</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1000" vote="aye">Dinny McGinley</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/981" vote="aye">Sandra McLellan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1082" vote="aye">Tony McLoughlin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/977" vote="aye">Michael McNamara</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1026" vote="aye">Olivia Mitchell</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1004" vote="aye">Mary Mitchell O'Connor</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1070" vote="aye">Michelle Mulherin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/985" vote="aye">Dara Murphy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1197" vote="aye">Paul Murphy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1056" vote="aye">Dan Neville</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1018" vote="aye">Aodh&aacute;n &Oacute; R&iacute;ord&aacute;in</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/984" vote="aye">Jonathan O'Brien</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1060" vote="aye">Kieran O'Donnell</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1058" vote="aye">Patrick O'Donovan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1069" vote="aye">Fergus O'Dowd</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1073" vote="aye">John O'Mahony</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/971" vote="aye">Joe O'Reilly</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1061" vote="aye">Jan O'Sullivan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1005" vote="aye">Maureen O'Sullivan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/964" vote="aye">Ann Phelan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1001" vote="aye">Thomas Pringle</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/947" vote="aye">Pat Rabbitte</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1013" vote="aye">Brendan  Ryan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1025" vote="aye">Alan Shatter</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1048" vote="aye">Arthur Spring</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1102" vote="aye">Brian Stanley</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/978" vote="aye">David Stanton</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1207" vote="aye">Billy Timmins</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1095" vote="aye">Liam Twomey</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/948" vote="aye">Leo Varadkar</mpname>
                </mplist>
                <mplist vote="no">
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1199" vote="no">Bobby Aylward</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1190" vote="no">Tommy Broughan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1071" vote="no">Dara Calleary</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1057" vote="no">Niall Collins</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1100" vote="no">Se&aacute;n Fleming</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1108" vote="no">Noel Grealish</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/960" vote="no">S&eacute;amus Healy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1049" vote="no">Michael Healy-Rae</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/999" vote="no">Charlie McConalogue</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1090" vote="no">Mattie McGrath</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/993" vote="no">Michael McGrath</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/965" vote="no">John McGuinness</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1183" vote="no">Peter Mathews</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1044" vote="no">&Eacute;amon &Oacute; Cu&iacute;v</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1054" vote="no">Se&aacute;n &Oacute; Feargha&iacute;l</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/970" vote="no">Brendan Smith</mpname>
                </mplist>
        </division>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.774/3" nospeaker="true" time="18:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200059#FFF00250"><p>Question declared carried.</p></speech>
    <major-heading id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.775" nospeaker="true" time="18:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200060#GGG00200">Messages from Select Committees</major-heading>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.776" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1040" speakername="Michael Kitt" time="18:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200060#GGG00300"><p>The Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality has completed its consideration of the Criminal Justice (Burglary of Dwellings) Bill 2015 and has made no amendment thereto.</p></speech>
    <major-heading id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.777" nospeaker="true" time="18:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200060#GGG00400">Estimates for Public Services 2015: Messages from Select Committees</major-heading>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.778" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1040" speakername="Michael Kitt" time="18:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200060#GGG00500"><p>The Select Sub-Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport has completed its consideration of the following Supplementary Estimate for Public Services for the service of the year ending 31 December 2015 - Vote 31 - Transport, Tourism and Sport.</p>  <p>  The Select Sub-Committee on Finance has completed its consideration of the following Supplementary Estimate for Public Services for the service of the year ending 31 December 2015 - Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance.</p>  <p>  The Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform has completed its consideration of the following Supplementary Estimates for Public Services for the service of the year ending 31 December 2015 - Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances - and Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service.</p>  <p>  The Select Sub-Committee on the Department of the Taoiseach has completed its consideration of the following Supplementary Estimate for Public Services for the service of the year ending 31 December 2015 - Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor.</p></speech>
    <major-heading id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.779" nospeaker="true" time="18:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200060#GGG00600">Equality (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2013 [Seanad]: Committee and Remaining Stages</major-heading>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.780" nospeaker="true" time="18:10:00" ><p>Section 1 agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.781" nospeaker="true" time="18:10:00" ><p>NEW SECTION</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.782" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1040" speakername="Michael Kitt" time="18:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200060#GGG00900"><p>Amendments Nos. 1, 8 and 10 are related and will be discussed together.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.783" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1203" speakername="R&oacute;is&iacute;n Shortall" time="18:10:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200060#GGG01000"><p>I move amendment No. 1:</p><blockquote>In page 3, between lines 26 and 27, to insert the following:<b>&ldquo;Amendment of Equal Status Act 2000</b><blockquote><b>2. </b>Section 7(3)(c) of the Equal Status Act 2000 is hereby repealed.&rdquo;.</blockquote></blockquote><p>In the context of this legislation, I propose that Members move to amend the Equal Status Act 2000.  I accept that the Equality (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2013 before Members primarily pertains to removing some elements of discrimination in employment law, albeit, unfortunately, not all such elements, as Members will discuss later in the debate.  While that is the primary purpose of the Bill, it also deals with a number of other miscellaneous matters.  In that context, I propose that Members seek to amend the Equal Status Act 2000.  The reason I do so is that while there are significant issues about discrimination against teachers, for example, and other employees, Members are aware that in the area of education there is significant discrimination on religious grounds which really is indefensible, given the stage our republic has reached and the age of our democracy.  It is outrageous that people are discriminated against and prevented from attending their local school on religious grounds.</p><p>We have an extraordinary situation where a great many parents believe they have no choice but to have their newborn babies baptised if they are to have any chance to get them into their local school.  I am sure the Minister of State agrees that this is intolerable.  While he nods to the comments I am making, it is very unfortunate that the Government is not taking the opportunity to reform legislation in this area, which reform is long overdue.  For that reason, I strongly urge the Minister of State to support the amendment.  This is an opportunity for him to do so and I certainly expect him to do the right thing and vote in accordance with what I understand are his beliefs.<br/><br/>The Equal Status Act 2000 allows very definite discrimination on religious grounds.  Section 7(3)(c) states:</p><blockquote>(3) An educational establishment does not discriminate under <i>subsection (2)</i>by reason only that...(c) where the establishment is a school providing primary or post-primary education to students and the objective of the school is to provide education in an environment which promotes certain religious values, it admits persons of a particular religious denomination in preference to others or it refuses to admit as a student a person who is not of that denomination and, in the case of a refusal, it is proved that the refusal is essential to maintain the ethos of the school...</blockquote><p>In this day and age it is indefensible to still have such legislation in the Statute Book.  There is a very strong case to be made that this provision is in conflict with the constitutional provision which I will discuss.  On any ground that is not an acceptable provision in the context of State-funded schools.  It means that in the case of at least 20% of schools parents and their children are being discriminated against by virtue of their religious beliefs.  I do not know how any Government could stand over this.<br/><br/>There is a clear demand for equality in education.  In any modern democracy this must be provided for.  It is simply not acceptable that a child can be refused a place in a local school purely on the basis of religion.  The education system should reflect and respect the diversity of Irish society and the citizens it is supposed to serve.  The Government has a responsibility to ensure all children can access State-funded school places in their locality.  It is simply unacceptable that parents are required to have their children baptised for the sole purpose of getting them into their local school.<br/><br/>Article 44.2.3&deg; of the Constitution states: &quot;The State shall not impose any disabilities or make any discrimination on the ground of religious profession, belief or status&quot;.  However, the Equal Status Act allows discrimination on these grounds when it comes to school enrolment.<br/><br/>Overall, progress in ensuring greater pluralism in the education system has been painfully slow.  The Government should now set out a clear transition plan to move away from having 96% of State-funded schools denominationally controlled.  We need to move rapidly to a system that reflects the diversity of Irish society.  It is not enough to say people can choose an education for their children in keeping with their religious beliefs, yet when these schools are not available within a reasonable distance they have no choice but to attend a denominational school, if they are lucky enough to get in.  As we know, of course, in many cases, they cannot get in, unless their parents are prepared to have them baptised, very often in direct conflict with their own belief system.  Having that kind of regime is intolerable.<br/><br/>Several people are leading the way in campaigning to bring about the necessary reform.  I wish the same commitment to a modern day education system that is inclusive and recognises the diversity of Irish society was shared by the Government.  We were told that elements of the Government were supportive, but when it comes to legislating, these elements have been found wanting.<br/><br/>I will quote what various people are saying about the issue, starting with the Catholic Archbishop of Dublin, Diarmuid Martin, who said last year:</p><blockquote>Pluralism is something we should welcome... <br /><br />A clear plurality will make it easier for teachers to find an environment in which they can be true to their convictions.  [The same, of course, applies to students in schools.]  It requires a new and mature culture of dialogue about values, including religious values, and a culture which respects religious values.</blockquote><p>Earlier this year the archbishop said: </p><blockquote>Faith can and does play a role in the future of Irish education and not just in a marginal way ... We need to reassure them that faith cannot be imposed and one should not attempt to impose it.  But when faith gives one an added dimension, one which enriches what is purely technical, that contribution should be welcomed by all.<br /><br />Indeed the common desire towards a vision of a pluralist Ireland which both those who hold a secular viewpoint of life and those whose lives are faith inspired will only be achieved through a process of mature dialogue, respectful discussion of differences and a sharing of common concerns.</blockquote><p>I absolutely support this.  That approach to diversity and mutual respect is not possible under the current primary and secondary school system, which is shameful.<br/><br/>Just last month the archbishop said:</p><blockquote>We need a society where people who believe, people who are searching, people who doubt and people who reject religious values can live in a new mature relationship of dialogue and seeking.  Enlightened secular society does not need to fear dialogue with men and women who believe or vice-versa.</blockquote><p>Therefore, while Irish society and the Catholic Church are moving on and have a much more enlightened view of denominational education and while many in this House are demanding urgent reform, unfortunately, the Government is stuck back a few decades ago and not prepared to commit to introducing the reforms that are so badly needed.<br/><br/>Other eminent bodies should be quoted in this debate.  Last year the European Court of Human Rights heard a case involving a different form of discrimination but its findings are still relevant to this point.  Last year in referring to the Louise O'Keeffe case it found that the State was responsible, even though it had outsourced its obligation to non-State entities.  The State cannot absolve itself from the responsibility to protect the rights of all parents and children in the education system and delegate it to private patron bodies.  It is responsible and has a positive obligation under the European convention to protect the rights of all parents and their children in the education system.  Patently, it is not doing this.<br/><br/>The European Court of Human Rights also found that this model of primary education appeared to be unique in Europe and that it was not possible to stand over such an arm's length approach to such a responsibility.  The State, in outsourcing its responsibility to provide schools and for their governance and in paying for that system of education, has a clear responsibility to uphold children's rights within it.</p><p>Another eminent source, the Constitutional Review Group, some time ago, made the following comments: </p><blockquote>Article 44.2.4&deg; may be thought to represent something of an exception to the general rule contained in Article 44.2.3&deg; that the State shall not endow any religion.  Accordingly, if a school under the control of a religious denomination accepts State funding, it must be prepared to accept that this aid is not given unconditionally.</blockquote><p>It went on to say: </p><blockquote>If Article 44.2.4&deg; did not provide these safeguards, the State might well be in breach of its international obligations, inasmuch as it might mean that a significant number of children of minority religions (or those with no religion) might be coerced by force of circumstances to attend a school which did not cater for their particular religious views or their conscientious objections.  If this were to occur, it would also mean that the State would be in breach of its obligations under Article 42.3.1&deg;</blockquote><p>Those comments and findings were arrived at by the Constitutional Review Group in 1995.  It is just extraordinary; and here we are so many years later and still the system has not been reformed.<br/><br/>I made the point earlier that it is my strong view that the Equal Status Act is in breach of the constitutional provisions in respect of religion and education.  We know that in Article 42.3.1&deg; of the Constitution, in respect of education, the following provision is made: &quot;The State shall not oblige parents in violation of their conscience and lawful preference to send their children to schools established by the State, or to any particular type of school designated by the State.&quot;  It goes on to say: &quot;The State shall provide for free primary education and shall endeavour to supplement and give reasonable aid to private and corporate educational initiative, and, when the public good requires it, provide other educational facilities or institutions with due regard, however, for the rights of parents, especially in the matter of religious and moral formation.&quot;  That is not happening.  While the school provides for primary education it does not currently respect the ethos or religious beliefs of parents because parents are forced into a situation whereby if they want to get their children into a State-funded primary school in their locality, if the school is over-subscribed, they have no chance of getting in unless their child is baptised.  Again, that is an entirely indefensible position and the Government looks as if it is going to continue to stand over that.<br/><br/>In relation to the matter of religion in the Constitution, Article 44.2.1&deg; provides: &quot;Freedom of conscience and the free profession and practice of religion are, subject to public order and morality, guaranteed to every citizen.&quot;  That is not happening at the moment.  Article 44.2.3&deg; states: &ldquo;The State shall not impose any disabilities or make any discrimination on the ground of religious profession, belief or status.&rdquo;  It is quite clear that the State is discriminating against children who are not baptised in so far as they cannot access a school within a reasonable distance of their home.<br/><br/>Article 44.4.4&deg; provides that: &ldquo;Legislation providing State aid for schools shall not discriminate between schools under the management of different religious denominations, nor be such as to affect prejudicially the right of any child to attend a school receiving public money without attending religious instruction at that school.&rdquo;  It is all very well that there is constitutional provision ensuring that children attending a school do not have to attend religious instruction, but that provision assumes that such children can get into the school in the first place when the reality for too many children is that they cannot.  The implication of the constitutional provision to which I have referred is that children would have access to and get into a school of a different belief system to their own, and in those circumstances they would not have to attend faith instruction.  There are umpteen sources, including the Constitution, which make it clear that it is not acceptable constitutionally and it is not acceptable under international law to discriminate against children, to say to four year olds and five year olds that because their parents did not baptise them that they cannot get access to a State-funded local primary school.  There are no circumstances at all in which that can be defended or justified.<br/><br/>There has been ample opportunity for the Government to reform the law in this regard.  The provision of education and providing for pluralist options for all children throughout the country is another matter entirely.  We will talk some other day about the lack of recognition and lack of provision for non-faith schools or multidenominational schools, but on this net point about the clear situation that prevails at the moment, whereby four year olds and five year olds are being discriminated against solely on the grounds that they are not baptised, cannot be defended on any grounds.  It is the height of hypocrisy that we say to parents as a State that one&rsquo;s children will not get access to a State school in the locality unless one&rsquo;s child is baptised.  It just makes a mockery of the State and the supposed independence of the State.  It also makes a mockery of religion.  The fact is very much recognised by Archbishop Diarmuid Martin, who knows that the current situation is intolerable and it is not in the interests of anybody, whatever their ethos, religious belief or non-religious belief to allow that to continue.<br/><br/>The Minister of State, Deputy Aodh&aacute;n &Oacute; R&iacute;ord&aacute;in, has had opportunities to deal with the issue.  It is not as if he does not know it is a pressing issue.  It is something that comes up on a regular basis.  Recently, a petition of 20,000 names was presented to the Government, whereby people were demanding their right as citizens and taxpayers in this country to have access for their children to their local State schools.<br/><br/>The Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, has talked about the need to do something in this area.  She has promised an education admissions Bill sometime shortly but it is very difficult to see such a Bill being prepared and passed this side of a general election.  Even if it was, quite extraordinarily, the Minister has stated that while she is going to deal with a number of aspects of school admissions and intake policies that need reform, she is not going to deal with the most glaring example of discrimination, namely, the religious ground.  It is just beyond belief that a Minister would recognise there is a serious issue of discrimination that needs to be tackled, she has promised to introduce a Bill that deals with the very issue of admission to schools, yet she says she will not address this most pressing issue.</p><p>I do not know what her thinking is on that.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.787" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1040" speakername="Michael Kitt" time="18:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200063#KKK00200"><p>I am loathe to interrupt the Deputy but seven other Deputies wish to contribute.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.788" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1203" speakername="R&oacute;is&iacute;n Shortall" time="18:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200063#KKK00300"><p>I will conclude.  It is quite extraordinary that the Minister would do that.  She said the next Government will do this.  That is passing the buck on a grand scale.  It is also saying to parents who find themselves in that situation that it is too bad, it is their hard luck and they will have to wait until some future Government might have the courage to address this area of discrimination.</p>  <p>  I put it to the Minister of State present that by agreeing to amendment No. 1 he can address this issue very simply and in a very straightforward way and deal with that net point purely on the grounds that it is unacceptable that schools should be allowed to discriminate against four and five year olds on the grounds of religion specifically.  The Minister of State knows that is not on, that it is not acceptable and that it is wrong.  I call on him and his Government colleagues to do the right thing.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.789" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1040" speakername="Michael Kitt" time="18:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200063#KKK00400"><p>Deputies Ruth Coppinger and Paul Murphy have similar related amendments.  I call Deputy Coppinger followed by Deputy Paul Murphy.  Also, Deputies Eric Byrne, Jonathan O'Brien, Catherine Murphy, Richard Boyd Barrett, Joan Collins and Clare Daly have indicated they wish to contribute.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.790" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1195" speakername="Ruth Coppinger" time="18:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200063#KKK00500"><p>I propose amendment No. 8 on behalf of the Anti-Austerity Alliance.  It calls for the deletion of subsection (3)(c) which allows discrimination in admissions policy in schools on the grounds of religion.  There is obviously a massive interest among Deputies in this topic and it is unfortunate that this debate will be guillotined at 9 p.m.  We will not even get past dealing with one amendment, which is unfortunate for the parents who are in the Gallery.  I will be as brief as I can.</p>  <p>  It is way past time for this legislative measure to be removed and this debate presents the perfect opportunity for the Minister of State to insert this proposal into the list of equality provisions he is making.  This measure is discriminatory.  It is socially extremely divisive in communities.  It is also quite incredible that State-run, taxpayer-funded schools are allowed give preferential treatment to one religion.  Teachers are paid by the State, the school buildings, repairs and all the school expenses are paid for in whole or in part by the taxpayer but yet boards of management or patrons are allowed draft admissions policies based on inequality.</p>  <p>  The idea that in 2015 a school can discriminate against admitting a child on the basis of their religion is racism.  There is no other word it.  If that was the case pertaining in any other country, that is what we would call it.  It is a form of apartheid in effect.  There are two cases involving people who are in the Gallery.  One of them has spoken a good deal on this topic.  To give the case study of those involved, the father is a Hindu, living in the Dublin area and his daughter has to travel 6 km to school.  Other children in their estate attend local schools.  His daughter does not understand why she cannot attend the local school with her neighbours and friends.  She is in junior infants and they had to apply to seven schools.  They were told at one point by the archbishop's office that there was a simple way out; to tell a Hindu that he should get his daughter baptised is quite incredible.</p>  <p>  Another woman who lives in Dublin has applied to nine schools for her son to start primary school this year.  Eight have turned him down on the grounds of religion.  The son is not in school now, he has had to stay back an extra year, all because they could not get a school to take him.</p>  <p>  The Minister of State is the Minister responsible for equality and he has a chance to do something about this.  I believe he made a statement yesterday that if he gets re-elected he will do something about this in the next Government.  Is he for real?  He is actually going to ask people to vote for what is rank hypocrisy.  He can do something about this tonight.  These children could attend school for the new school year in September rather than having potentially to wait many more years while this discrimination continues.</p>  <p>  In the Dublin West constituency that I was elected to represent one in four people is born outside of Ireland.  It can be taken therefore that we have a multi-religious, multi-ethnic population.  We had the perfect storm a few years ago when there was a huge shortage of school places due to the of massive development that took place during the so-called Celtic tiger years but no schools were provided to cater for the increase in the population.  We had massive public meetings to which TDs trotted along and they told the assembled throng that they backed the school in using the Catholics first baptismal cert policy.  They actually said that and some of those are Ministers in the current Government.</p>  <p>  Other schools in Dublin West have introduced a quota system.  They will take in 30% non-Catholics as a recognition that they should do something to help solve the problem but that is simply not good enough.  That is also discrimination.  Even though the taxpayer is funding schools, they remain single religion schools in terms of 70% of the students admitted.  In Dublin West and in many other areas parents have to drive significant distances and they pass each other on the roads, with some driving from Clonsilla to Castleknock and some driving from Castleknock to Clonsilla, adding to the traffic, all because they cannot get their children admitted to their local school.  I am in the same situation.  I have to drive my daughter to school.  I would like her to go to the local school but it is a Catholic school so therefore she cannot attend.</p>  <p>  It is inexcusable of the Minister of State if he does not accept this amendment.  When I went outside the gates of these Houses two weeks ago to talk to parents who were raising the issue of the deletion of section 7(3)(c), I saw a rake of Labour Party members there as well, some of whom were prominent equality Senators.  Tonight the Minister of State has a chance not just to talk the talk but to walk the walk and accept this amendment.</p>  <p>  He brought in an admissions policy in April and the Minister for Education and Skills told us it was unconstitutional.  I do not have great faith in the Constitution of Ireland.  It was drafted years ago, it is not representative and it treats women as second class citizens, but I have looked at it.  It contains many provisions that state that this State is not to guarantee or endow any one religion, but what is this only endowing religion?  Other provisions were cited in the lengthy contribution Deputy Shortall made.  It is not in the Constitution to allow such discrimination.  The Minister of State has a great opportunity to remove this measure tonight.</p>  <p>  It is regrettable that we will not have time to deal with this legislation.  If we change this legislation and non-Catholics, people of diverse religions and of no religions can get into the schools that we all pay for, we will have to change the climate in schools.  There is no point in letting people into schools an then subjecting them to indoctrination effectively for the whole day.  We will have to change many provisions and we not will not reach the later amendments we tabled.  We have tabled three major amendments to the Education Act.  If the Minister does not accept this proposal, we will put forward a Bill, which will go to the Bills Office tomorrow morning, containing these proposed amendments and a proposal to delete of section 7(3)(c).  The changes that would be needed relate to the school curriculum being invested with religion, boards of management having to adhere to what the patron of the school says, which is usually the local Catholic church, the timetable having to include religion, the fact that it is made extremely difficult for people not to have their children in Catholic schools or in a religious school, having to take instruction on subjects and not being allowed not to participate.  We have had many cases of that.  These are all issues that must be dealt with but, for tonight, will the Minister of State please start with the simple measure of not excluding children on the basis of religion?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.791" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1197" speakername="Paul Murphy" time="18:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200063#KKK00600"><p>I would like to speak in support of the Anti-Austerity Alliance amendment and a similar amendment tabled by Deputy Shortall proposing the deletion of section 7(3)(c).  We had a tremendous movement from below for equality which was reflected in the massive "Yes" vote in May of this year, which ended discrimination against LGBTQ people in regard to marriage.  That was welcomed by the Government, the Labour Party and Fine Gael, as a big step forward in terms of equality, and I agree.  We will go further again tonight in terms of going a significant step along the way of ending discriminating in particular against gay and bisexual teachers in schools.</p><p>The Government's amendments do not go the full way in that direction but they go an important part of the way.</p> <p> Almost everybody in the State recognises this as State sanctioned and State funded discrimination.  It is provided for in our laws that schools can discriminate on the basis of people's religion or lack thereof.  An opinion poll conducted by Ipsos MRBI found that 94% of people were opposed to a religion requirement in the context of accessing education.  Respondents overwhelmingly did not think that they were being asked a question about laws that exist right now.  Many people who may happen to be Catholic, whether they are practising or not, have not noticed there is an incredible provision in our laws whereby children and their parents are discriminated on the basis of their religion or lack thereof.  It is repugnant to any notion of equality that we allow this discrimination to happen from the age of four or five and we fund it with taxpayer's money.</p> <p> The reality in this State, given the historic domination of the Catholic Church and its role in our education system, which needs to be ended, is that a religion first policy, which is explicitly permitted by this section, results in most cases in a Catholic first policy.  There needs to be a separation of church and State entirely, including in the education system.  It means there is discrimination against Muslims, Hindus, Protestants, atheists or anybody who does not fit in with the religious ethos of the significant majority of our schools.  That is not simply an abstract matter of equality or inequality and the mindset that takes the view while it is a shame that this is in place there is no harm being done.  The reality, as Deputy Coppinger outlined, is that real harm is being done to significant numbers of people in this city and across the country in terms of children not understanding why they are unable to access the local school that their friends on their estate or road attend and why they have to travel a long distance to school.  It also means some children have to spend an extra year in preschool because they are unable, having applied to numerous schools, to access any primary school.  They need to return to preschool and apply again to gain access.</p> <p> That has implications for many people as they are forced to have their children baptised, whether they choose to or not.  It is like the advice given by the archbishop's office to Rupesh in Rathfarnham which said that one easy way around this was to baptise his daughter.  It is incredible advice but the reality is it is followed somewhat unwillingly by many people who just want to avoid hassle by having their child baptised.  It is incredible that there is pressure in this State, which is supposed to champion equality, on parents to baptise their children.</p> <p> Another impact of this discrimination can be, although not in all circumstances, a segregation of children in different schools whereby those predominantly from immigrant communities, who are significantly less likely to be Catholic, are less likely to gain access to many national schools and have to attend Educate Together schools.  This has created a system of apartheid within our education system, which is contrary to any notion of equality.</p> <p> I am interested to hear the Minister of State's response.  I do not see how a Minister with responsibility for equality or how the Labour Party can stand over this.  If we get the answer we all expect that the Government agrees with us in principle but there is an excuse and it will get back to us, which will not happen before the next election, it will not be acceptable.  An opportunity exists to send a message to make a significant change on behalf of children and parents across the State to reflect the reality of our society and that change needs to be accepted by the Government.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.793" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1030" speakername="Eric Byrne" time="18:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200064#LLL00200"><p>I welcome the legislation.  Years ago some Members made the mistake of empowering the Roman Catholic Church to discriminate against LGBT teachers.  Mervyn Taylor was the Minister for Equality and Law Reform at the time in the rainbow coalition Government.  I am delighted years later to vote with the Minister of State to repeal that clearly discriminatory provision against LGBT teachers.</p>  <p>  Ireland is at the crossroads.  Our economy is booming, we are in a European Union, we embrace the free flow of labour throughout the Union and we have an obligation to, and a policy of, attracting international workers to take up employment and, hopefully, rear their families here.  We have also prided ourselves over the past four of five years in holding large citizenship ceremonies.  Anybody who has taken the time to attend such a ceremony will have noticed the pleasure and joy of those who have become citizens, having come here from as many as 120 different countries, and the cultural and racial composition of those who happily become Irish.  They are Chinese, Mongolians and north, south and central African.  They are Buddhists, Catholics, Protestants, Jews, atheists while many in the African community are of an evangelical Protestant tradition.  We are part of Europe attracting international workers who want to build their family lives in Ireland.  Approximately 50,000 of them have become citizens and they are of such diversity that it is difficult to even comprehend in such a short time.</p>  <p>  The question we must ask ourselves is how do we as a State, which is proud of its citizenship ceremonies, handle the educational needs of their children?  That issue will not be resolved tonight.  I take a slightly different position from most of the previous speakers, which is not anti-Catholic.  I am a secularist and I believe in the notion of a secular state and the state being secular by acting like a grandfather or a loving father and mother to every child born in it, no matter what cultural or religious background they come from.  There is an obligation on the State to applaud and to encourage these children to grow in our multicultural society.  I have pointed out previously that we are a small island.  There are cultural divisions in Northern Ireland between Catholics and Protestants - those with loyalty to England and those with loyalty to the Republic.  As a result, 3,000 died partly through conflict.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.794" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1195" speakername="Ruth Coppinger" time="18:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200064#LLL00300"><p>To which amendment does this refer?  This seems like an attempt to run down the clock and prevent us from calling a division on the amendment.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.795" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1040" speakername="Michael Kitt" time="18:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200064#LLL00400"><p>There is no time limit on speakers on Committee Stage.  I ask all Members for brevity.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.796" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1030" speakername="Eric Byrne" time="18:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200064#LLL00500"><p>If there were fewer objections, I could say a great deal more and I have no intention of ceding to this bullying tactic.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.797" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1195" speakername="Ruth Coppinger" time="18:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200064#LLL00600"><p>The Deputy is bullying-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.798" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1030" speakername="Eric Byrne" time="18:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200065#MMM00100"><p>Unlike the Trotskyists here on my left, I speak from personal experience of having grown up in this society and having been party to a mixed marriage.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.799" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1195" speakername="Ruth Coppinger" time="18:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200065#MMM00200"><p>Everyone has personal experience.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.800" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1030" speakername="Eric Byrne" time="18:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200065#MMM00300"><p>Those of us who engaged in mixed marriages in this country had a particular difficulty in deciding where our children would go to school and where they would be accepted.  I was very lucky that the Protestant population going to Kildare Place National School in Rathmines was diminishing in numbers with the result that there were openings for non-Protestant children.  I was very lucky in that period that my children could attend a Protestant school which was the faith of neither my wife nor I.  I am very conscious that when that school became very popular, people actually decided they were Protestant even though they were not practising Protestants.  Many of them attempted to produce proof that they were Protestant even though they were not in order to get their children into that school.  That is comparable to those people forced against their wishes to baptise children when they are agnostic, atheist or have other reasons not to baptise the child.  Imagine how the Muslim community must feel if they are told or suspect that they should have their children baptised in order to access a school in their locality.  I praise the Roman Catholic Church, which operates the schools in my constituency, particularly Warrenmount school in the inner city.  It has more children from diverse communities than one could imagine, many of whom are Muslim.  The imam of the Blackpitts mosque sends his children to that school.  I congratulate Synge Street school, which accepts many children from diverse communities and has not asked for baptismal certificates to be produced.  These schools are low demand schools within the Catholic community and, therefore, it is only by the grace of God there are facilities there for the adjoining community, just as I was able to benefit from the diminishing number of Protestants in the Kildare Place school.</p>  <p>  As a secularist, I want to see every child going to State-run schools.  Religious beliefs can be more than adequately catered for outside school surroundings.  When it comes to education, the United States has a very positive policy.  Why segregate children in a multicultural society at a tender age when they should naturally be making friends from across the cultural divide, whether Indian, Muslim or Hindu?  Is that not the beauty of multiculturalism?</p>  <p>  The Minister of State will not change the law here tonight.  I want to put down a marker that the State is at a crossroads.  There are tell-tale signs.  The Archbishop of Dublin has made progressive comments.  He seems to be implying that there are forces at play within the Roman Catholic Church that will not concede the surplus schools they have.  However, that is a problem for them and I will not enter into that debate.  In those schools that have accepted children of other faiths, the Roman Catholic Church is not suffering from the effects of this diversity, for example in Drimnagh Castle school, where the diversity is spectacular.  I ask the Government to implore the Roman Catholic Church to recognise how offensive it is to ask people to produce baptismal certificates in order to gain access to schools.</p>  <p>  There are lessons to be learned from Paris, Crossmaglen and other vicious societies and events such as those in Kano province in northern Nigeria, Somalia and Kenya, and from how terrorism is dividing Catholic from Protestant and the Christian south from the Muslim north.  There is every reason to believe that if this society is to be a shining light and sustain itself as a multicultural society, we must insist on children in the State sharing the same classroom.  That means it is not just a Roman Catholic issue.  Why should Protestant children go to Protestant schools?  Why should Jewish children go to Jewish schools?  Why should Muslim children be isolated in their schools?  If we are a multicultural society, we must compel the State to allow children, during the most formative years of their lives, to mix, understand cultural diversity and grow up in a society that welcomes and embraces all children. </p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.801" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/984" speakername="Jonathan O'Brien" time="18:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200065#MMM00400"><p>The argument has already been made by previous speakers.  We are under time constraint and there is a guillotine at 9 p.m.  We should at least have the opportunity to vote on the amendments.  Therefore, I will not speak further and I ask everyone else who is due to speak to limit it so we can at least have the opportunity to vote on the amendment.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.802" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1202" speakername="Catherine Murphy" time="18:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200065#MMM00500"><p>This Bill is about equality.  If we cannot remedy something as blatant as the inequality of discriminating against four and five year olds, I do not know what we are doing here, to be perfectly honest.  I will take the same line as Deputy O'Brien and will not go into detail.  A lot has been said already.  This Government came in with a great promise.  It could have done anything because of the huge majority it had.  The Labour Party is not a minor part of this Government - it has 36 or 37 seats, if I remember correctly.  One would have expected a significant amount of progress to have been made on something like this.  It makes people dishonest when we need honesty in our society as a value in its own right.  People are going off and having their children baptised when it is not their choice.  There is pretence in order to get their child into school.  I am not anti-Catholic and I am not religious.  There is something very offensive about a four year old being refused on the basis that they are not baptised when the school is a publicly funded building and its teachers are paid by the State.  In this day and age, that is not acceptable.  This is an opportunity to do something about it.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.803" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="18:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200065#MMM00600"><p>I appeal to any Government Deputies who want to speak on this to respect the fact that an amendment has been tabled and we want to vote on it, namely on the specific proposal to remove this obnoxious discrimination against children in our schools.  Please do not talk down the clock so we are forced to vote on the Bill as a whole because we support it, but we want the elimination of an absolutely obnoxious and unacceptable discrimination against children included in it.  The essence of discrimination is that one group gets precedence over others and that is happening in our schools.  Young children are being discriminated against based on their religious belief or lack of religious belief or because of the family's religion or religious belief, which overlaps heavily with their ethnic background because of the new communities coming to Ireland.  It is absolutely unacceptable.</p><p>The Government has no excuse but to remove that discrimination if it means what it says when it claims it is in favour of equality.  Will the Minister of State and the Government side please allow the vote to happen and not talk down the clock?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.805" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1193" speakername="Joan Collins" time="19:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200066#NNN00200"><p>It is quite ironic we have gone through the marriage equality referendum with all the structures put in place for it.  I heard Deputy Eric Byrne say the LGBT community should not be discriminated against.  They should not.  However, a LGBT who is a Catholic in a Catholic school will be discriminated against.  That is the problem and why it is important we vote on these particular amendments.</p>  <p>  This is not against Catholic schools.  Up to 96% of primary schools are under patronage, 90% of which are Catholic schools.  This is a general point about school patronage and how children can be discriminated against, no matter what situation they are in.  We should vote on this amendment.  Rule 68 has to be removed.  This rule, introduced in 1965, states that religious instruction is the most important part of the curriculum.  Apart from that, a child will still face all the religious emblems and other issues in school.  We should encourage secular schools as the taxpayer is paying for the system.  The national school system was set up in 1831.  The former Minister for Education, Niamh Breathnach, changed that when she brought in the choice system for schools.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.806" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1192" speakername="Clare Daly" time="19:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200066#NNN00300"><p>We live in a very different Ireland to the one which abdicated its responsibility in the early years of the State for the provision of essential public services and left them in the hands of the Catholic Church.  Over the past year, and particularly over the past several months, we have seen a groundswell of parents and teachers who are not willing and not prepared to put up with this issue any longer.  This is a significantly positive development.  It is in part a reflection of the fact that we have become a much more multicultural society.  However, it is not solely that.  There are many Irish born people who do not have any religion.  I am one of them.  I am an atheist and I have many friends who are atheists as well.  Even for the many people who practice religion nominally, but only because it is so associated with so many aspects of our lives, we all believe this has to change.  It is not part of what we are now in 2015.</p>  <p>  Thinking back to Second Stage, the Minister of State stood here with a little fanfare of Labour Party Deputies behind him and told us this was the best legislation ever.  This was to be even bigger than the marriage equality referendum in what it was going to do for Ireland.  It was frankly embarrassing.  This is a limited Bill and is absolutely pathetic.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.807" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1093" speakername="Ciara Conway" time="19:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200066#NNN00400"><p>He did not say that.  Check the record.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.808" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1192" speakername="Clare Daly" time="19:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200066#NNN00500"><p>The fact that we have not been given time to discuss the multiple aspects of discrimination included in it is reprehensible.  We are not even going to touch these.  Deputy Eric Byrne asked why are children being segregated and why can all children, no matter what religion, not go to the same school.  It is because of the patronage policies which this Government introduced.  This provision is a small part in that.  If the Labour Party is a fraction of what it claims it is on the tin in terms of equality, it will support this amendment.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.809" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1038" speakername="Eamonn Maloney" time="19:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200066#NNN00600"><p>I am happy to support any Bill which outlaws inequality in society, whether it relates to class, colour or creed.  While I am happy to welcome this Bill, I am equally happy to support this amendment.  If we talk about equality in its full form, we cannot dilute it.  One cannot say one agrees with the part of the Bill which outlaws discrimination against adults in their employment places, but then change gear and say there is no discrimination against children born into families with different religious backgrounds or into families with no faith.  Whether people have a religion or not, it is none of my business.  Dare I say it is none of the business of any other Oireachtas Member.  It is a private matter.</p>  <p>  It really is not possible to have it both ways.  If we are going to deal with the protection of people in the sense they are not discriminated against in the workplace, one cannot put off the question as to how admissions policies in schools discriminate against children.  All my adult life, I have held the view that children should be educated together.  Religion should have no part in it.  I accept for historical reasons matters have moved slowly.  A start has to be made on this, however.  If one subscribes to the view that children should be educated together, then one has to support this amendment.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.810" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/999" speakername="Charlie McConalogue" time="19:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200066#NNN00700"><p>I identify two particular issues.  First, in areas where schools are currently not oversubscribed, there is the issue of availability of schools, either non-denominational or multidenominational.  What we need in those cases is the investment in more choice so that parents have the option of the choice they wish.  In many cases, it is not to go to a school which has a particular religion or ethos.</p>  <p>  There is also the particular issue in 20% of cases where schools are oversubscribed.  In many of these situations, we see children being able to travel from outside of the school's catchment area and gain access to that school based on their ethos.  In doing that, we see many children within the school's catchment area, who do not share the denomination or ethos of the school, not being able to gain access to a local school as a result.  What we need to see is a rebalancing of the current situation, so the option for a school to be able to give admission preference to a child who shares the ethos of the school is restricted only to children for whom that school is the closest of their shared ethos.</p>  <p>  This would mean we would not see situations where people travel significant distances, bypassing other schools which share their ethos, to gain entry to a particular school based on their religion and, in that, depriving other children from the locality of school places.  That rebalancing needs take place.  It would be an appropriate way to deal with this.  It might not satisfy everyone but I believe it is about balancing the different and various rights but also the different desires of people as to how their children will be educated.  For that reason, that is the pathway we would be seeking to go down, rather than the total removal of the section.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.811" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1195" speakername="Ruth Coppinger" time="19:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200066#NNN00800"><p>That made no sense whatsoever.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.812" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1018" speakername="Aodh&aacute;n &Oacute; R&iacute;ord&aacute;in" time="19:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200066#NNN00900"><p>I thank Deputies for their contributions, many of which I have much support for and some of which were a little bit off tone.  Several years ago, Deputies Ciara Conway, Dominic Hannigan and John Lyons, Senator Ivana Bacik and I came together to draft legislation to amend section 37 of the Employment Equality Act 1998.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.813" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1195" speakername="Ruth Coppinger" time="19:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200066#NNN01000"><p>The Minister of State should speak to the amendment.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.814" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/984" speakername="Jonathan O'Brien" time="19:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200066#NNN01100"><p>He is not talking about amendment No. 1.  We would like to vote on it.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.815" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1029" speakername="Catherine Byrne" time="19:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200066#NNN01200"><p>The Minister of State has the floor.  He is speaking.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.816" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1195" speakername="Ruth Coppinger" time="19:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200066#NNN01300"><p>Does he not have to speak to the amendment?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.817" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1029" speakername="Catherine Byrne" time="19:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200066#NNN01400"><p>He is speaking to the amendment.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.818" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1203" speakername="R&oacute;is&iacute;n Shortall" time="19:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200066#NNN01500"><p>He is not.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.819" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1195" speakername="Ruth Coppinger" time="19:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200066#NNN01600"><p>He is not.  He is speaking to a different amendment, not the one that has been moved.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.820" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1018" speakername="Aodh&aacute;n &Oacute; R&iacute;ord&aacute;in" time="19:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200066#NNN01700"><p>Over several years, painstakingly, through the Houses of the Oireachtas and the Office of the Attorney General, with amendments and counter-amendments and discussion from all sides of the Houses, we have come to the position today where we can amend section 37 of the Employment Equality Act 1998 to remove the chilling effect for people who work in religious-run State institutions which are-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.821" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1203" speakername="R&oacute;is&iacute;n Shortall" time="19:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200066#NNN01800"><p>Acting Chairman, on a point of order.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.822" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1029" speakername="Catherine Byrne" time="19:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200066#NNN01900"><p>There is no point of order.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.823" speakerid="unknown" error="nomatch" speakername="Deputies" time="19:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200066#NNN02000"><p>There is a point of order.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.824" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1203" speakername="R&oacute;is&iacute;n Shortall" time="19:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200066#NNN02100"><p>Acting Chairman, we are allowed a point of order.  We are debating amendment No. 1.  Will the Minister of State not be disingenuous and respect the democratic procedures in the House?  Will the Minister of State not talk down the clock to avoid a vote being taken on amendment No. 1?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.825" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1018" speakername="Aodh&aacute;n &Oacute; R&iacute;ord&aacute;in" time="19:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200066#NNN02200"><p>That is not my intention.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.826" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1203" speakername="R&oacute;is&iacute;n Shortall" time="19:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200066#NNN02300"><p>We know what he is doing.  Will he desist from it?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.827" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1018" speakername="Aodh&aacute;n &Oacute; R&iacute;ord&aacute;in" time="19:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200066#NNN02400"><p>That is absolutely not my intention.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.828" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1203" speakername="R&oacute;is&iacute;n Shortall" time="19:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200066#NNN02500"><p>Why is the Minister of State changing the subject?  Why does he not speak to the amendment?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.829" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1018" speakername="Aodh&aacute;n &Oacute; R&iacute;ord&aacute;in" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO00100"><p>Deputy Shortall took half an hour for her contribution and I find her recent conversion to a liberal Ireland quite fascinating.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.830" nospeaker="true" time="19:15:00" ><p>(Interruptions).</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.831" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1018" speakername="Aodh&aacute;n &Oacute; R&iacute;ord&aacute;in" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO00300"><p>The point is on the amendment.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.832" nospeaker="true" time="19:15:00" ><p>(Interruptions).</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.833" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1029" speakername="Catherine Byrne" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO00500"><p>Deputies Conway and Coppinger, the Minister of State is speaking.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.834" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1018" speakername="Aodh&aacute;n &Oacute; R&iacute;ord&aacute;in" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO00600"><p>On the amendment itself, the point is that this is the vehicle which we are trying to achieve tonight.  What has been brought into this vehicle of amending legislation is an issue concerning the Equality Act.  I have a huge amount of sympathy with the points made and what campaigners such as Paddy Monahan, John Suttle and others, who I have been dealing with and speaking to over a number of years, are doing, but there are technical reasons this amendment cannot be accepted.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.835" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/984" speakername="Jonathan O'Brien" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO00700"><p>What are they?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.836" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1203" speakername="R&oacute;is&iacute;n Shortall" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO00800"><p>What are the technical reasons?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.837" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1018" speakername="Aodh&aacute;n &Oacute; R&iacute;ord&aacute;in" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO00900"><p>It is not my intention in any way to talk down any clock.  I am trying to give the House the time and the decency of the explanation that has been prepared to have a decent and proper understanding of what we are trying to achieve.</p>  <p>  As an aside, as someone who has been the focal point of heavy criticism in Catholic, right-wing and conservative newspapers and who has been shouted about and criticised from pulpits in churches across the land, I find it remarkable that somehow my or my Department's analysis of this legislation is considered to be coming from a conservative viewpoint.  I ask the Deputies to allow me the time to give a constitutional angle and the technical reasons for our arguments.  </p>  <p>  The objective of the amendment is to provide for the repeal of the current section 7(3)(c) in its entirety.  Section 7 generally prohibits discrimination in respect of the admission policy operated by an educational establishment except where it is a primary or post-primary school operating in an environment which promotes certain religious values.  In such circumstances, under subsection 7(3)(c) the school may favour the enrolment of students from a particular religious denomination in preference to others or refuse to admit a student who is not of that denomination.  However, any preferential admission policy in this regard is only permitted to the extent it is essential to maintaining the religious ethos of the particular school.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.838" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1203" speakername="R&oacute;is&iacute;n Shortall" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO01000"><p>Come on.  Stop playing games.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.839" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1018" speakername="Aodh&aacute;n &Oacute; R&iacute;ord&aacute;in" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO01100"><p>The provision reflects the freedom of religion guaranteed in Article 44 of the Constitution as interpreted by the superior courts and, in particular, the right of every religious denomination to manage its own affairs and maintain institutions for religious or charitable purposes.  I am advised that deleting this provision would infringe that freedom of religion for religiously run institutions.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.840" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1195" speakername="Ruth Coppinger" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO01200"><p>It would not.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.841" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/984" speakername="Jonathan O'Brien" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO01300"><p>Is the Minister of State serious?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.842" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1202" speakername="Catherine Murphy" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO01400"><p>The 96% of them.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.843" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1203" speakername="R&oacute;is&iacute;n Shortall" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO01500"><p>Pathetic.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.844" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1018" speakername="Aodh&aacute;n &Oacute; R&iacute;ord&aacute;in" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO01600"><p>The broader issue of school admission policies and the creation of greater choice for parents who do not want a religious education for their children is a matter for the Department of Education and Skills.  As Deputies will be aware, my colleague, the Minister for Education and Skills, is addressing these issues in the Education (Admission to Schools) Bill-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.845" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1203" speakername="R&oacute;is&iacute;n Shortall" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO01700"><p>She is not.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.846" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/984" speakername="Jonathan O'Brien" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO01800"><p>She is not and I tell the Minister of State that as education spokesperson for my party.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.847" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1018" speakername="Aodh&aacute;n &Oacute; R&iacute;ord&aacute;in" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO01900"><p>-----and that is where the issues surrounding school admission policies will be addressed as well as by creating real choice for parents through putting a wider variety of schools in place.  For that reason, I am not in a position to accept the amendment.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.848" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1195" speakername="Ruth Coppinger" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO02000"><p>Are atheist schools in place?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.849" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1018" speakername="Aodh&aacute;n &Oacute; R&iacute;ord&aacute;in" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO02100"><p>I can give a further explanation if required by Deputies.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.850" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO02200"><p>No, I am grand.  Just let us vote.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.851" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1018" speakername="Aodh&aacute;n &Oacute; R&iacute;ord&aacute;in" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO02300"><p>It will take a number of moments but Deputies may accuse me of running down the clock.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.852" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1094" speakername="John Halligan" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO02400"><p>Just tell us if there are schools for humanists and atheists.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.853" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1018" speakername="Aodh&aacute;n &Oacute; R&iacute;ord&aacute;in" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO02500"><p>It was argued in the Article 26 referral hearing of the Employment Equality Bill 1996 that what became section 31 contravened the guarantees of freedom of conscience and free profession and practice of religion contained in Article 44.2.1&deg;-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.854" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1203" speakername="R&oacute;is&iacute;n Shortall" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO02600"><p>That has nothing to do with the amendment.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.855" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1018" speakername="Aodh&aacute;n &Oacute; R&iacute;ord&aacute;in" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO02700"><p>-----and that it contravened the ban on imposing any disabilities or making any discrimination on the ground of religious profession, belief or status.  Effectively, not to delay the issue further, the point is that a constitutional issue is at play here.  It is not in any way our intention to have a situation persist where children are precluded from attending their local school.  It is my firm belief and personal view that the issue at the heart of the education system is that it is one which is dominated by patronage and not child-centred.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.856" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1193" speakername="Joan Collins" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO02800"><p>It has been like that since 1831 and it was never an issue until recently.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.857" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1018" speakername="Aodh&aacute;n &Oacute; R&iacute;ord&aacute;in" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO02900"><p>However, that is not an issue for this Bill.  This Bill is purely to amend section 37 of the Employment Equality Act-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.858" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/984" speakername="Jonathan O'Brien" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO03000"><p>It is about equality.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.859" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1203" speakername="R&oacute;is&iacute;n Shortall" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO03100"><p>Allow the D&aacute;il to decide that.  Allow the D&aacute;il to decide whether it is or not.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.860" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1018" speakername="Aodh&aacute;n &Oacute; R&iacute;ord&aacute;in" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO03200"><p>-----and other sections to ensure that the chilling effect on members of the LGBT community, divorcees and single parents who work in our schools and hospitals under religious patronage can be eliminated.  I am proud of this Bill-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.861" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/984" speakername="Jonathan O'Brien" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO03300"><p>And we all support it.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.862" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1018" speakername="Aodh&aacute;n &Oacute; R&iacute;ord&aacute;in" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO03400"><p>-----having spent four years of my career-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.863" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1195" speakername="Ruth Coppinger" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO03500"><p>The Minister of State is not speaking to this amendment.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.864" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1018" speakername="Aodh&aacute;n &Oacute; R&iacute;ord&aacute;in" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO03600"><p>-----along with other Deputies in the Labour Party-----</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.865" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1203" speakername="R&oacute;is&iacute;n Shortall" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO03700"><p>This is not about you.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.866" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1018" speakername="Aodh&aacute;n &Oacute; R&iacute;ord&aacute;in" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO03800"><p>-----bringing it to to the eventuality it will become tonight.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.867" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1195" speakername="Ruth Coppinger" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO03900"><p>The Minister of State is speaking about a different amendment.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.868" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1203" speakername="R&oacute;is&iacute;n Shortall" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO04000"><p>This is not about the Minister of State.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.869" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1018" speakername="Aodh&aacute;n &Oacute; R&iacute;ord&aacute;in" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO04100"><p>At 9 p.m., that chilling effect ends.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.870" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO04200"><p>Time.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.871/1" nospeaker="true" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO04300"><p>Amendment put:</p><p>The Committee divided: Tá, 26; Níl, 77.</p><br/><p>Tellers: Tá, Deputies Róisín Shortall and Ruth Coppinger; Níl, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Paul Kehoe.</p></speech>
        <division id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.871/2" nospeaker="true" divdate="2015-12-02" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO04300">
            <divisioncount ayes="26" noes="77" />
                <mplist vote="aye">
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" vote="aye">Richard Boyd Barrett</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1190" vote="aye">Tommy Broughan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1193" vote="aye">Joan Collins</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1083" vote="aye">Michael Colreavy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1195" vote="aye">Ruth Coppinger</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1037" vote="aye">Se&aacute;n Crowe</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1192" vote="aye">Clare Daly</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1022" vote="aye">Dessie Ellis</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1047" vote="aye">Martin Ferris</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1198" vote="aye">Michael Fitzmaurice</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1050" vote="aye">Tom Fleming</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1094" vote="aye">John Halligan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/960" vote="aye">S&eacute;amus Healy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/998" vote="aye">P&aacute;draig MacLochlainn</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1038" vote="aye">Eamonn Maloney</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1017" vote="aye">Finian McGrath</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/981" vote="aye">Sandra McLellan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1202" vote="aye">Catherine Murphy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1197" vote="aye">Paul Murphy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1028" vote="aye">Aengus &Oacute; Snodaigh</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/984" vote="aye">Jonathan O'Brien</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1005" vote="aye">Maureen O'Sullivan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1001" vote="aye">Thomas Pringle</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1203" vote="aye">R&oacute;is&iacute;n Shortall</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1102" vote="aye">Brian Stanley</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1080" vote="aye">Peadar T&oacute;ib&iacute;n</mpname>
                </mplist>
                <mplist vote="no">
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1199" vote="no">Bobby Aylward</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1062" vote="no">James Bannon</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/980" vote="no">Tom Barry</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/974" vote="no">Pat Breen</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1016" vote="no">Richard Bruton</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/946" vote="no">Joan Burton</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1079" vote="no">Ray Butler</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/989" vote="no">Jerry Buttimer</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1029" vote="no">Catherine Byrne</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1030" vote="no">Eric Byrne</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1071" vote="no">Dara Calleary</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/975" vote="no">Joe Carey</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1092" vote="no">Paudie Coffey</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1057" vote="no">Niall Collins</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1031" vote="no">Michael Conaghan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1041" vote="no">Paul Connaughton</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1093" vote="no">Ciara Conway</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1099" vote="no">Marcella Corcoran Kennedy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/986" vote="no">Michael Creed</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1046" vote="no">Jimmy Deenihan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/968" vote="no">Pat Deering</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1007" vote="no">Paschal Donohoe</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1011" vote="no">Robert Dowds</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/957" vote="no">Bernard Durkan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1078" vote="no">Damien English</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1014" vote="no">Alan Farrell</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1085" vote="no">Frank Feighan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1068" vote="no">Peter Fitzpatrick</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1055" vote="no">Charles Flanagan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1108" vote="no">Noel Grealish</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1051" vote="no">Brendan Griffin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1076" vote="no">Dominic Hannigan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/995" vote="no">Noel Harrington</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1106" vote="no">Simon Harris</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1049" vote="no">Michael Healy-Rae</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/949" vote="no">Martin Heydon</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1097" vote="no">Brendan Howlin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1033" vote="no">Kevin Humphreys</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1012" vote="no">Derek Keating</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1188" vote="no">Colm Keaveney</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1098" vote="no">Paul Kehoe</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1021" vote="no">Se&aacute;n Kenny</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1110" vote="no">Se&aacute;n Kyne</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/982" vote="no">Kathleen Lynch</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/996" vote="no">Michael McCarthy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/999" vote="no">Charlie McConalogue</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1180" vote="no">Helen McEntee</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1194" vote="no">Gabrielle McFadden</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1000" vote="no">Dinny McGinley</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1090" vote="no">Mattie McGrath</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1082" vote="no">Tony McLoughlin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/977" vote="no">Michael McNamara</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1026" vote="no">Olivia Mitchell</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1004" vote="no">Mary Mitchell O'Connor</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1070" vote="no">Michelle Mulherin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/985" vote="no">Dara Murphy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1056" vote="no">Dan Neville</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1045" vote="no">Derek Nolan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1018" vote="no">Aodh&aacute;n &Oacute; R&iacute;ord&aacute;in</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1069" vote="no">Fergus O'Dowd</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1073" vote="no">John O'Mahony</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/971" vote="no">Joe O'Reilly</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1061" vote="no">Jan O'Sullivan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1081" vote="no">John Perry</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/964" vote="no">Ann Phelan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1035" vote="no">Ruairi Quinn</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/947" vote="no">Pat Rabbitte</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/952" vote="no">James Reilly</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1074" vote="no">Michael Ring</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1013" vote="no">Brendan  Ryan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1025" vote="no">Alan Shatter</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/970" vote="no">Brendan Smith</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1048" vote="no">Arthur Spring</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/961" vote="no">Emmet Stagg</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/978" vote="no">David Stanton</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/948" vote="no">Leo Varadkar</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/950" vote="no">Jack Wall</mpname>
                </mplist>
        </division>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.871/3" nospeaker="true" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO04300"><p>Amendment declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.872" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1040" speakername="Michael Kitt" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO04350"><p>I am now required to put the following question in accordance with an order of the D&aacute;il of this day: &quot;That each of the sections undisposed of is hereby agreed to and the Title is hereby agreed to, that Report Stage is hereby completed and the Bill is hereby passed.&quot;</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.873" nospeaker="true" time="19:15:00" ><p>Question put and agreed to.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.874" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1040" speakername="Michael Kitt" time="19:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200067#OOO04400"><p>A message shall be sent to the Seanad acquainting it accordingly.</p></speech>
    <major-heading id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.875" nospeaker="true" time="19:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200068#QQQ00100">Rent Certainty and Prevention of Homelessness Bill 2015: Second Stage (Resumed) [Private Members]</major-heading>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.876" nospeaker="true" time="19:25:00" ><p>Question again proposed: &quot;That the Bill be now read a Second Time.&quot;</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.877" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1094" speakername="John Halligan" time="19:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200068#QQQ00300"><p>I support the Bill.  It is interesting that it speaks about the definition of homelessness.  It is important for all of us that we would redefine what homelessness is.  For instance, the normal definition of homelessness is having no home or permanent place of residence.  However, we are way behind other countries in this regard.  In Canada, having a home is defined as having a stable, permanent and appropriate housing.  In Australia, the adequacy and security of tenure of the dwelling, as well as control of access to space to have social relationships, are what are seen as most important.  The European Federation of the National Organisations Working with the Homeless has stated it is about living in secure housing, not inadequate accommodation.</p>  <p>  When I was speaking on this issue a couple of weeks ago, I asked how often have we come across an individual who may have had to go back to the family home because he or she cannot get on the housing list or will be too long on it, or cannot afford rented accommodation.  Such a person ends up sleeping in the family home, perhaps sleeping in the sitting room or a small bedroom with a young child.  That is not security of tenure and it does not give people access to a space where they can have social relationships; in other words, they do not have privacy.</p>  <p>  I have been told the Bill that Sinn F&eacute;in has put forward is based on what the Society of St. Vincent de Paul is defining as homelessness.  I believe we need to redefine exactly how we see someone who is homeless.  It has gone beyond the fact that someone is homeless because he or she sleeps rough on the streets.  There are people living in the most woeful and horrendous accommodation.  I have seen this myself in Waterford and I am sure it can be seen all over the country.  People do not consider these places to be a home.  I believe that, at some stage, we have to redefine exactly what homelessness is.  The reason for that is simple, namely, so we can procure a quality of life for a person or persons who want to go on the housing list.  We can define this so it will be unacceptable for them to have to live with their parents or in insecure or bad quality accommodation.  I welcome the Bill.  At some stage, we will need to redefine what is a homeless person.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.878" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1197" speakername="Paul Murphy" time="19:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200068#QQQ00400"><p>I welcome the Bill and agree with its different aspects.  The broadening of the definition of homelessness is necessary and reflects the reality that there are thousands upon thousands of people in a condition of homelessness.  They perhaps do not fit people's traditional image of what homelessness is, which is generally equated with rough sleeping, which continues to persist in our society.  However, to have thousands of people living on friends' couches or living in cars and vans is an absolute epidemic and it is getting worse on a daily basis.</p><p>The question is how those people are seen and treated.  In that regard, I want to briefly refer to an incident that was filmed this morning on Chancery Lane in Dublin 8, and which appeared on the <i>www.broadsheet.ie</i>website.  People should look at this online.  The footage shows someone who is rough sleeping interacting with a garda and being pepper-sprayed and treated in a rough manner.  At first viewing, this would seem be very troubling and deserves investigation as to what happened.</p><p>In regard to the question of rent controls, which I think essential, it is clear the Labour Party was beaten.  I notice the Minister, Deputy Alan Kelly, did not turn up to the start of the debate last night and did not turn up again for the start of the debate today, as he did not turn up at the start of the Private Members' debate put forward by the Anti-Austerity Alliance on this question some weeks ago.  He supposedly put up a great fight for rent control against Fine Gael, lost and is now entirely captured by the logic of Fine Gael that says we simply cannot have rent control because it would represent an interference with the market.</p><p>The reality is that rent controls exist.  Nearly half of all rental homes in New York are rent controlled, Berlin has just introduced stricter rent controls and Sweden has a model whereby rents are negotiated by committees of tenants, local authorities and landlords.  In a number of countries, rent controls do not exist in existing tenancies, which is all the so-called rent certainty of the Government proposes, but apply to new tenancies.  We need proper rent controls, not the certainty of massive increases on a two-yearly basis that the Government offers us.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.879" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1003" speakername="Richard Boyd Barrett" time="19:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200068#QQQ00500"><p>The availability and accessibility of a roof over a person's head should be a right, not a matter for the market.  That is the point.  People cannot exist and function in a meaningful way in our society if they do not have a roof over their heads, and that should be obvious.</p><p>A government that is incapable of providing a secure roof over the heads of its citizens is not worth the name "government".  It should be ashamed of itself, particularly if, at the beginning of the 21st century, we are still trying to succeed in achieving the most elementary requirement for existence and functioning in society.  The Government has failed spectacularly on this because it does not want to upset people who are profiting from homelessness and the housing crisis.  That is what this is about.</p> <p> The failure of the Government to tackle the crisis relating to homelessness and housing is due to the fact that it wanted to improve the balance sheets of the banks, the landlords, NAMA and developers and to put them back in business.  Now, it does not even want to impose rent controls.  This is utterly shameful.  I do not expect the Government will do anything about this.  While I support the Sinn F&eacute;in proposal, I believe we need to go further and introduce a differential rent scheme because, as a result of the dwindling number of council houses, rent is now related to people's ability to pay.  We need an ample stock of council houses - the rents relating to which are controlled and linked to income - to be provided by the State.  This should be standard, quality housing that reaches the proper standards.  This housing does not exist currently and I have no real faith the Government is serious about delivering it.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.881" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1198" speakername="Michael Fitzmaurice" time="19:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200069#RRR00200"><p>I welcome the opportunity to speak on this issue.  We need to determine the types of homelessness that face society.  Unfortunately, some people are homeless due to an underlying problem.  If we do not tackle the root cause of why people with these underlying problems are homeless, we will not arrive at a solution.  I have seen many cases where the cause of homelessness is drink or some other issue and for these, even if we had tin houses for them, they would not live in them.  Unfortunately, despite the legislation that has been introduced during the past five or six years, we have a situation where if people do not go someplace for help, there is nothing we can do to solve the problem.  I have seen this myself time and again.</p>  <p>  The other side of homelessness is happening in middle Ireland.  Unfortunately, some of those people who had large mortgages have lost their homes through no fault of their own because of the downturn.  These people are homeless now, but it is not their fault.  We need to tackle this problem but we need to do so in a realistic manner.  I understand we are going down the road of modular homes but I firmly believe that we have all we need to build homes.  We have the bricks and the mortar and the skillsets required and if councils have land, houses can be built at a reasonable price.  If an effort is made to do so, there is no reason a house cannot be built in 16 to 20 weeks.  I know some companies in Ireland are producing modular homes but I do not believe we should import units we could build here, while also creating employment at the same time.  That would be a win-win situation that would help our economy.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.882" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/971" speakername="Joe O'Reilly" time="19:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200069#RRR00300"><p>Deputy Mary Mitchell O'Connor is sharing time with Deputies Mulherin, Neville, Dowds and Catherine Byrne.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.883" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1004" speakername="Mary Mitchell O'Connor" time="19:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200069#RRR00400"><p>I welcome the Government's recent announcement of its package of rent stability measures.  These are badly needed and will go some way towards providing certainty for both tenants and landlords.  The situation could no longer continue whereby tenants were arriving home to find notification letters stating their rent was increasing by 20% or 30% with immediate effect.  I have heard of cases where tenants were subletting their bedroom at weekends so that they could pay the exorbitant rents at the end of the month.  People need security and rent certainty.  Many tenants are working hard to pay rent and they deserve to be able to plan for their future and be secure in the knowledge that rent reviews can only take place every 24 months.</p>  <p>  I am also cognisant of the problem faced by many landlords who own single dwellings as a result of negative equity and know that they are often struggling too.  I am aware of a number of couples who bought apartments during the Celtic tiger years thinking they were getting onto the property ladder.  Some of these couples now have families and some have split up and are now forced to rent somewhere else while renting out the properties they bought as a starter home.</p>  <p>  I welcome the affordable rental pilot project to be developed and launched in early 2016.  Urban areas, such as D&uacute;n Laoghaire and its environs, are extremely densely populated.  Long-term, affordable residential accommodation must be provided for low to moderate income workers in these areas.  We cannot allow spiralling rents to continue to push many homes beyond the reach of moderate income workers.  The issue of housing supply must be addressed, and in a way that is sustainable.  Nobody wants to see a repeat of the pyrite issues or poorly constructed houses.  Every time I return home to visit my parents in County Galway, I am angered by the sight of the many partly vacant estates throughout rural Ireland while families are crying out for housing.  The introduction of a vacant site levy from 2019 will, hopefully, incentivise many developers around the country to start building sustainable housing.</p>  <p>  This issue must be addressed as a matter of urgency.  The long-term solution to homelessness is to increase the supply of homes.  I too have received calls and e-mails from constituents who are homeless or on a housing list and in desperate need.  One man who contacted me recently informed me his parents had recently passed away and he now finds himself homeless.  He is now living in a bed and breakfast establishment.  I am also aware of recently separated mothers and their children becoming homeless and being forced to live in bed and breakfast accommodation and emergency refuge shelters.  People who have suffered domestic violence and who have been forced to leave their homes are searching for new ones.</p>  <p>  The cold weather action plan for rough sleepers in the Dublin region is now in place.  This plan has guaranteed additional beds, hot food, showers and on site health supports for the homeless.  I urge county councils to rush through the provision of the 500 modular housing units approved for homeless families across Dublin.  While these units are not a long-term solution to the problem of homelessness, they are a safe and immediate response that will take people off the streets.</p>  <p>  I urge the Government to proceed with the introduction of rent certainty and for the housing of the homeless to continue to be a top priority.  I fully recognise that no magic wand will solve these issues tomorrow and that tonight's business has not proposed any real solutions.  I welcome the recent measures announced by the Minister and I urge for their implementation as a priority.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.884" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1070" speakername="Michelle Mulherin" time="19:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200069#RRR00500"><p>I also welcome the rent stability measures and the suite of other measures announced by the Government and, in particular, by the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Kelly, to address our housing shortage and the issue of homelessness.  The rent stability measure proposed is a short-term measure, pending restoration of equilibrium in the rental market.</p>  <p>  On the issue of rent certainty, we are living in extraordinary times as regards the market.  The massive constraint on supply has led to the current shortage of housing.  In conditions where we have such restricted availability of housing, we can understand how rents increase.  I believe sensitive interference in that market is justifiable in the short term, on the basis that we are addressing the supply side.  I understand that the discussions that took place were concerned with getting the balance right and providing evidence that interference in the market works.  There are various views on this, but I welcome the decisions that have been made and look forward to their benefits for tenants who now can expect their rents to be reviewed every 24 months rather than every 12.</p><p>This is a significant step.  As Deputy Mitchell O'Connor said, we have to continuously address this as a matter of urgency.  </p> <p> In our drive to address the housing shortage and homelessness, I welcome the &euro;4 billion social housing strategy.  Social housing has held families in great stead in terms of what we used to call council housing.  We can safely say that some of our best and closest knit communities are council housing areas.  It is testament to the sort of people who are there.  I also welcome the fact a tenant purchase scheme has now been announced.  This allows people, in due course, to buy out their houses and have a further stake in their communities, if they so wish.</p> <p> Returning to something Deputy Mitchell O'Connor mentioned about her visits to rural Ireland, I wish to raise a matter the Minister of State, Deputy Phelan, and I have discussed at length.  I know it is close to her heart and her portfolio.  Deputy Mitchell O'Connor spoke about the housing estates but I wish to speak about the town centres, the rural market towns of some size.  There are houses and residences over shops and when the last person dies, the house is left empty.  Some of them are very fine with some significant heritage value.  We see them in the town cores.  This was happening even during the Celtic tiger; people were moving out of towns and moving to housing estates.  In many cases, there was inferior-type building or construction going on and many are now paying the price out of their own pockets.  The most extreme example of this is pyrite.</p> <p> Will the Minister of State look at the issue of revitalising and repopulating these towns?  It is not so many years ago since families lived in them.  We can incentivise owner-occupiers and first-time buyers to live in these houses by giving them a tax break.  It would not be developer-led but aimed at individuals who are interested in buying a property to live in.  We need some incentivisation beyond normal market forces.</p> <p> The other issue is zoning of our town cores.  The way retail has gone, we will no longer need a shop on every corner.  People's habits have changed and yet we want to ensure there are essential services in these towns, such as a shop, a post office, a doctor, etc.  We need to plan a new model for market towns so that we have basic services.  In that sense, we also need to look at rezoning some commercial premises and supporting small, independent traders.  Tax breaks for people who will redevelop and live in the centre of towns is part of a suite of measures we should be undertaking to address housing supply in the longer term.  Everybody does not have to move to the countryside or live on the edge of a town.  People should be able to live in the centre of towns.  We must take the bull by the horns because the situation will not get better by itself.  The market towns will continue to be the sort of depressing places people have described, even if farming is on the pig's back, so to speak.  Farmers never admit to that.  However, this situation is very serious.  </p> <p> I welcome the allocations the Minister, Deputy Kelly, has made for energy efficiency measures in local authority housing stock.  They allow people to have warmer homes and save on electricity and heating bills.  In the case of Mayo County Council, between 2011 and 2014 approximately &euro;2 million was allocated and &euro;1.8 million drawn down by the local authority.  Although this shows real benefits for tenants, one issue needs to be seriously looked at.  People's heating systems are being upgraded and we know that new boilers, be they oil boilers or whatever, are far more efficient.  Whether in local authority or other housing, these upgrades need to be done.  However, I take particular issue with the fact local authorities are doing planned maintenance and upgrading heating systems by putting in oil-fired central heating.  They are taking out ranges and back boilers.  I regularly make representations for people who cannot afford to fill a tank with oil.  They are living in a cold house whereas in the past, they had solid fuel.  If we are looking at low carbon emissions, it should be wood pellets.  The fact local authorities are investing in these heating systems means they are putting people in fuel poverty.  That is what is happening; they cannot afford to heat their houses.  It is wrong and needs to be revisited.  I ask the Minister of State, Deputy Phelan, to take that up with the Minister, Deputy Kelly.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.886" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1056" speakername="Dan Neville" time="19:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200070#SSS00200"><p>I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the debate.  I want to deal with the area to which the Taoiseach referred yesterday, namely, the rough sleepers on the streets.  There are different types of homelessness.  I would like to give special recognition to the Simon Community for the work it does.  I know of the work it has been doing in Limerick, Clare and north Tipperary for decades with people who are sleeping on the streets.</p>  <p>  The Simon Community did a survey in 2011 of people who use its services.  It explored physical and mental health status, drug and alcohol use, health implications and access to medical services among other issues.  Some of its key findings were as follows: 65% of those who were rough sleepers had one diagnosis of a physical health condition; 47% had at least one diagnosis of a mental health condition - that is, approximately half of the people; 46% had at least one diagnosis of a physical and one diagnosis of a mental health condition; 12% had an intellectual disability; 50% had alcohol abuse issues; 31% had drug abuse issues; 7% had attempted suicide in the previous six months; 19% had self harmed; and 55% had used an accident and emergency department in the period prior to the survey.  That gives an indication of the experience of people on the streets.  It is not just sleeping day-to-day.  There are a lot of difficulties.  The study demonstrates the many health and related needs of those using the Simon Community's services.  People who are very sick and very vulnerable - 603 people who had used Simon projects around the country - participated in the study.</p>  <p>  We should recognise the difference between the broad homeless, whose situation it is crucial we discuss and deal with, and the particular difficulty of those on the streets.  The study referred to the number having mental health difficulties.  Having a mental health problem can put people at risk of homelessness for various reasons.  After discharge from hospital, they are at risk of homelessness for various reasons.  Without proper mental health support after discharge from hospital, a homeless person may fall out of treatment and end up relapsing.  In other words, a person coming out from a mental health institution requires very careful treatment, often supervised by carers and family.  How can a person on the street have that level of service?  There is mistrust there.</p><p>There is often dissatisfaction with an overly medicated treatment regime that can put people off seeking assistance and support, leaving them to struggle alone.  There are more barriers to accessing mental health treatment for those with addiction until the addiction has finally been brought under control, which puts those people in a catch-22.  They are told that before their mental illness can be treated in an institution, they must overcome their alcohol problem, but alcohol is a disease in itself that requires treatment.  Often they are told that they cannot get the treatment they need because of their alcohol problem.</p> <p> Being homeless puts people at risk of developing mental health problems.  I have dealt with those who can become homeless because of a mental health issue, but being homeless puts people at risk of mental distress.  It exposes people to the risk of trauma, violence, low self-esteem and serious difficulties because of the chaotic lifestyle on the streets, and this makes it difficult for them to access mental health services in a crisis.</p> <p> Homeless services too often are unable to get mental health support for clients in crisis and are forced to turn to busy hospital emergency departments where the individual in distress often cannot afford to wait the many hours it might take to get help.  Somebody coming off the streets who is in extreme distress and is seriously agitated because of their mental health now must wait for hours to get the service.  They are more likely to leave and not wait for the service.</p> <p> According to a good piece of US research, people with mental health difficulties are seen in greater numbers among the prison population.  Many among the prison population suffer from mental ill health and difficulties and many of them have intellectual difficulties as well.  This group is not for debate in this motion but it is linked to the difficulties people with homelessness experience.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.888" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1011" speakername="Robert Dowds" time="19:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200071#TTT00200"><p>In speaking in this debate, I recognise that housing and the issues around it are the most pressing issues that face us.  In this regard, I very much regret the absence of Fianna F&aacute;il from this Chamber because many of the problems we have go back to the time when it was in government.</p>  <p>  As Deputy Boyd Barrett was speaking, I became increasingly irritated because I am so aware of the significant amount of hard work the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government and his staff have done to try to get on top of the homelessness and housing issue in all its different manifestations.  When I thought about it a bit more, I realised that if the People Before Profit Alliance came to power, it would solve the housing problem because the economy would go into a nosedive, many people would leave the country as a result and, therefore, there would be many homes for those who remained.  I recognise it would probably solve the housing problem in that way.</p>  <p>  I regret that Fianna F&aacute;il Members are not present because over the long period during which their party was in government, it left much of the housing issue to chance.  I will not go through all the different issues but the Fianna F&aacute;il Governments could have delivered up to 10,000 social houses but failed to do so because they did not insist on developers building the houses they were supposed to build for social use and instead allowed them under legislation to buy their way out of their responsibilities.  It effectively privatised the delivery of social housing for the majority of people coming on to the housing list.  Its ridiculous section 23 tax relief permitted houses to be built where they were not needed which meant not enough houses were built where they were needed.  This led to further problems because many of the skills that county councils had in respect of the delivery of social housing were lost.  We must change the culture in order that local authorities get back to providing social housing.  With the collapse of the Celtic tiger, developers have not building private housing either, which has greatly exacerbated the problem.</p>  <p>  Deputy Boyd Barrett tried to suggest the Government had done nothing whatsoever to address this issue, which is utter nonsense.  His party recently held a public meeting in my constituency and, when challenged, it had no practical or realistic suggestions for delivering housing.</p>  <p>  The Minister has done a great deal to help the situation relating to rents.  The most important of these measures is the stipulation that the minimum period between rent reviews for all tenancies be increased from 12 to 24 months for a four-year period.  This means that anybody who has had a rent review in 2015 will not face a rent increase until at least 2017.  Based on current rent levels and current rates of rent increases, extending the period of rent reviews will save an average renter &euro;750 in 2016.  As rents are higher in Dublin, an average renter will save something like &euro;1,400 a year.  It is not true to say that nothing has been done on this front.  There are other measures that have addressed this issue as well such as a longer notice of new rent, a new form of notification of new rents to tenants and measures to guard against termination of tenancies on false grounds such as a suggestion that a family member wants to move into the house where that is not the case in many if not most cases where this excuse is given.  There are a string of measures to try to address this issue and it is vital they have been put in place.</p>  <p>  It must be recognised that this in itself is only part of the answer.  Clearly, the biggest requirement to deal with this issue is the development of more housing, whether private, social or co-operative housing.  There is a great deal of work to be done.  There are measures in place to tackle homelessness?  While the aims of this Bill are worthy, it is questionable how practical some of them are.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.889" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1029" speakername="Catherine Byrne" time="19:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200071#TTT00500"><p>Homelessness occurs for many reasons, as has been pointed out by many speakers in this debate.  It can occur because of the loss of property, which Deputy Fitzmaurice mentioned, family disputes, alcoholism, drug addiction, mental health issues, abuse and other social problems.  People find themselves homeless for many reasons.  The figures show very clearly that part of the problem is due to insufficient social housing for people who want to be housed.</p><p>With that in mind this Government has taken many measures, some of which have been spoken about tonight.  Even through the Department of Social Protection, an increase in the level of rent supplement has been granted to over 5,000 households over the past 18 months.  With the new cold weather initiative for another 175 beds there will be no need for anybody to sleep rough if they do not wish to do so.  There are some people who want to sleep rough for a number of reasons and that is their choice.  Even if there was housing for everybody tomorrow we would still need the Alice Leahys of this world from Trust, the Simon Community and Merchants Quay Project.  These people who have made their life&rsquo;s work helping the needy, not only homeless people but people with the issues I have mentioned, deal with them daily. </p> <p> Like any mother I would agree that a hotel room is an inappropriate place for any family to have to spend Christmas or live for any period.  When I had young children I never had the opportunity to go to a hotel room on holidays but I rented a caravan in the country.  It was very difficult to control a group of children in such a confined space.  It is inconvenient and impractical not to be able to cook for oneself or wash clothes properly.  Hotel rooms are not a solution.</p> <p> I appeal to families who have children and loved ones in hotel rooms to ask them not to leave their loved ones in hotel rooms but take them into their own homes and allow them be part of the bigger assembly of the family.  As a mother and grandmother there would be no doubt in my mind but that I would want to bring my children home for Christmas.  A hotel room is not a solution to homelessness for families, particularly young children.  Every day I receive many representations from young people in my constituency trying to study for exams in a hotel room where there are three or four other children.  That is practically impossible.  I appeal to families who have loved ones in hotel rooms this Christmas to bring them back under their roof.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.891" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/984" speakername="Jonathan O'Brien" time="20:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200072#UUU00200"><p>Is the Deputy serious?  In all fairness we should not have to listen to this crap.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.892" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1029" speakername="Catherine Byrne" time="20:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200072#UUU00300"><p>It might be a bit crowded but Christmas is a time people should spend together.</p>  <p>  There have been several housing initiatives in Dublin South Central such as the de-tenanting of Teresa&rsquo;s Gardens involving over 400 families.  All these people have been reallocated.  There are 18 families left there.  Over 60 units were refurbished and set aside for those people who wanted to remain in Teresa&rsquo;s Gardens until the new houses were built.  Demolition has started on some of the blocks.  Hopefully by the beginning of the year some houses will be built.  I could go on about Dolphin House and Thornton Heights, and the new 76 units on the old St. Michael&rsquo;s Estate site.  The Lord Mayor, Cr&iacute;ona N&iacute; Dh&aacute;laigh, today turned the sod on new senior citizens&rsquo; units in Avonmore Crescent.  There will be 70 apartments there.  Flats in a very derelict complex in Basin Street, Oliver Bond Flats and Tyrone Place have been refurbished and people have been housed there.  Deputy &Oacute; Snodaigh and I were at the opening of 19 new apartments in Bluebell recently by the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Kelly.  I welcome the fact that today work will begin again on the modular housing project in Ballymun.  People say they are only temporary homes but if the 22 families living in hotel rooms will more than welcome having them for Christmas.</p>  <p>  We need to consider building more senior citizen units.  There are many elderly people in houses who cannot mind them.  A survey done by Father Michael at Fr. Bidone Court in Ballyfermot showed that 47 older people would like to move into senior citizen units and see their family homes back into use for families.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.893" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1037" speakername="Se&aacute;n Crowe" time="20:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200072#UUU00400"><p>We are facing one of the biggest housing crises in the history of this State.  A total of 5000 men, women, and children are trapped in emergency accommodation with no hope of a home anytime soon.  Homelessness has increased by 80%, the number of children who are homeless has doubled, and 73 new families became homeless last month.  In Dublin alone there are over 1,500 children in emergency accommodation.  It certainly is not a lifestyle choice.  People listening at home to the last contribution must be fuming.  The idea that people deliberately make themselves homeless and stay in hotel rooms when they have the option of going home is not dealing with the issue.  There may be one or two who do that but the majority of families we talk to do not have a choice.  We need to nail that lie tonight.  It does not happen.  Let us be honest in this debate.</p>  <p>  This is not a Government failure, according to the Taoiseach.  He claims the lack of house building is a county manager problem.  There is a bed for every homeless person if they want it, he claimed yesterday.  Progress is being made on this issue, according to the Taoiseach.  Meanwhile, the human tragedy continues with more and more families and individuals becoming homeless.  More and more families and individuals are waiting longer and longer for accommodation and a place they can call home.  Looking around the doorways of this city today we see the extent of the homelessness situation.  I was recently made aware of a man who became homeless with his two children.  He was walking the streets during the day and his family slept in the departure lounge of Dublin Airport at night, telling anyone who asked that they were waiting for a flight.  This man is now living in Cork, although he is originally from the constituency I represent. </p>  <p>  Rent certainty is the minimum that Sinn F&eacute;in wants.  In government we would be committed to introducing strong rent regulations.  We are putting this Bill forward because we feel it is a moderate proposal and the Government has no rational excuse to oppose it.  Preventing someone from becoming homeless is the most sensible approach to tackling homelessness while of course we need measures to house people already in homelessness.</p>  <p>  Our Bill prioritises preventative measures.  Government inaction has created this multifaceted housing crisis.  There is no one solution to the current emergency, it needs short-term emergency action, and medium and long-term action to stop people becoming homeless.  Our Bill is one step on that road.  An important first step would be for the Government to accept there is a crisis, acknowledge the scale of the problem and support this Bill tonight.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.894" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/984" speakername="Jonathan O'Brien" time="20:05:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200072#UUU00500"><p>I will start with some of the comments made by the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government last night.  If he is not listening the Minister of State, Deputy Coffey, can bring them back to him.</p><p>I wish to examine some of the solutions he claims to have brought forward.  First, he has stated he has sent a directive to local authorities that they are to have a 50% allocation rate to those who are homeless or vulnerable and for Dublin and Cork, a rate of 30% has been set for those who are classed as being homeless or vulnerable.  I am unsure whether the Minister of State is aware of this, but I suggest 90% of the people on the housing list are at risk and classed as vulnerable.  As they either have mental health issues or may be at risk of poverty, to try to put out this proposal that the Government has introduced a directive to which local authorities must adhere is nonsense because every local authority with which I am familiar and definitely Cork City Council has been exceeding the 30% rate for many years.  Consequently, this is no new departure by the Government.</p> <p> Another solution the Government has been lauding for the past 12 months is the provision of 75,000 houses in the private sector which will alleviate the housing problem.  However, what it fails to tell people is that all it is doing in respect of these 75,000 Houses is moving people from rent supplement to the housing assistance payment, HAP, scheme.  No additional housing is being provided.  People currently are in receipt of rent supplement are moving to the HAP scheme and being taken off a housing list.  Not one single additional family will be housed as a result of the much heralded 75,000 houses promised last year by the Minister.  </p> <p> Another issue is rent certainty.  No matter what the Minister of State might say, there is no rent certainty because when this legislation is passed, if one has not had a rent increase in the preceding 12 months, one will be eligible for one.  It is true that one cannot have one's rent increased for another two years, but the problem with it is the Government has specified the rent increase can only be in line with the market rate.  It is again leaving housing policy to the market rather than bringing forward a proposal that any rent increase would be index-linked with the rate of inflation.  That would have been the most prudent way to deal with this issue.  Last night, the Minister stated that when he went on his foreign travels, he was the envy of every other European Minister because of the proactivity of the Government in dealing with the homelessness problem.  It is a pity that he does not take on board the European model when it comes to rent certainty because that model, used by nearly every European Union member state, is to link rent increases or decreases with the rate of inflation.  Consequently, this constitutes another failing on the part of the Government.</p> <p> In the context of another issue I wish to discuss, I refer to some of the solutions proposed by Deputy Catherine Byrne, whereby the solution for anyone living in a hotel this Christmas with her kids and stuck in one room is that her family should take them home.  The solution proposed by Deputy Eric Byrne to people who have family members who are homeless is to take them home.  Again, this is an example of the State completely negating its responsibility and stating one's family should look after the problem.  This is not possible in all cases and I will provide the Minister of State with some examples.  In the case of somebody who is homeless and whose only living relative is his or her mother or father who is in receipt of a disability payment, were that parent to take in the family member who may be homeless, the parent would lose some supports that are vital to him or her.  If a family member who earns a good wage takes in a family member who is homeless, the individual who is homeless will lose any right to social welfare payments or a medical card because the family member who has brought that person into his or her own home is earning too much and the household income is taken into account, rather than that of the individual who has just been taken off the streets.  Were I to take my own brother off the streets and bring him into my home, he would lose his medical card and social welfare payments.  However, without a medical card, he cannot access the necessary and vital supports he needs as a recovering drug addict.  This is not a position into which any family member should be put, but these are the policies of the Government, which is putting family members into such a position.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.896" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1028" speakername="Aengus &Oacute; Snodaigh" time="20:15:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200073#VVV00200"><p>Bliain i ndiaidh b&aacute;s trag&oacute;ideach Jonathan Corrie ar thairseach trasna an bh&oacute;thair uainn, t&aacute; ruda&iacute; tar &eacute;is dul in olcas. T&aacute; s&eacute; soil&eacute;ir domsa agus don domhan m&oacute;r go bhfuil g&eacute;arch&eacute;im easpa d&iacute;dine agus easpa tith&iacute;ochta insan St&aacute;t seo agus nach bhfuil an Rialtas ag d&eacute;anamh mar ba ch&oacute;ir i leith iad si&uacute;d at&aacute; ar an liosta feithimh &oacute; thaobh tith&iacute;ochta de agus an liosta feithimh d&oacute;ibh si&uacute;d at&aacute; gan d&iacute;dean.</p>  <p>  A year has passed since the death of Jonathan Corrie focused many minds on the ongoing question of homelessness, but it is a pity that it did not focus for long enough the minds of the Government parties and the Cabinet, in particular.  The position in this city and across the country has become much worse since that horrific day last year.  More than 800 families have lost their homes since the Minister for statements and no action, that is, the Minister, Deputy Alan Kelly, announced a supposed raft of measures that were meant to respond to this crisis but which have not done so.  More than 100,000 families are now on local authorities housing waiting lists across the State, with the numbers rough sleeping in this city alone doubling in the past year. So much for the Labour Party Minister and his solution.  The Minister of State also should remember that the Taoiseach and his supposed conversations with rough sleepers.  Were the Minister of State or the Taoiseach genuinely interested in tackling homelessness and the housing crisis, the Government would have declared a national emergency and would not be pandering to the property classes and, in particular, increasing the scandalous subsidising of private landlordism to deliver social housing.  Socialism mar dhea, from the Labour Party, but I would not have expected anything less from Fine Gael.</p>  <p>  I believe any announcement from the Labour Party, as it strives to stave off oblivion, given that the general election is only days away, is too little too late.  The Government had time for action in the past five years, including both the Minister of State and the Labour Party Minister.  We have experienced a crisis which the Government will not admit to being a national emergency.  People literally are dying on the streets while waiting for the Government to act.  The time is up and the time for waffle is over.  What is also needed is a referendum to ensure property rights do not prevent the common good, which would allow for rent control and the confiscation of long derelict properties being hoarded by profiteers in this city and elsewhere.  The Minister of State has no understanding of the reality for either the homeless or those on housing lists or even at this stage, for those on low pay who are trying to rent privately.  The scale of the problem is such that it demands emergency powers.</p>  <p>  The Government's rejection of the Sinn F&eacute;in Bill is not good enough; it is laughable when compared with its lack of action.  Shortcomings in Sinn F&eacute;in's Bill could have been addressed on Committee Stage if the Government had any interest in delivering for the tens of thousands of people who need housing in the State.  I hope the Government's failures in office will continue to haunt its members for many years to come, just as the situation for those who are homeless in this city haunts them every night as they try to deal with the consequences of the actions of the Government and its predecessor.  This problem is not going away and will get worse unless the Government takes the action I propose.</p><p>Dublin City Council is only proposing to build 3,347 new homes by 2017.  While it sounds great, this is despite having 22,000 on its waiting list and an additional 70 families going homeless in the city every month.  The maths dictates that its new homes are only a drop in the ocean compared with what is required.</p> <p> Of the 3,374 new homes I mentioned, 873 are current stock and not new build, 63 qualify for HAP thereby subsiding private landlords and 245 are supposed to be temporary very expensive modular homes the Government announced.  That blatantly leaves a very inadequate new house building programme.  It should be remembered that this state of play is mainly because of the failure of this Government - and the previous one - to put money where its gob is.</p> <p> In my constituency, the local Sinn F&eacute;in councillors and I have demanded more social housing to address local needs for years.  We have been very imaginative and proactive in our proposals.  However, Dublin City Council has been hampered at every turn by this Government's, and the previous one's, lack of investment in building social housing.</p> <p> The Minister must immediately release the long-promised &euro;8 million for a redevelopment of the Traveller halting site, Labre Park.  Work must be allowed commence on the building of the Cornamona senior citizen&rsquo;s complex to deliver 60 senior citizens' homes which has been promised for more than ten years.  While we welcome the move to begin the long-awaited refurbishment of the Canon Troy complex and hope that NABCO manages to build its 72 houses in Cherry Orchard, these must not be treated as photo opportunities but should be recognised as part of the solution.</p> <p> Quite a number of other things need to be done in my constituency.  Another Deputy mentioned the regeneration of Dolphin House and St. Michael&rsquo;s estate earlier.  That will not even replenish the housing stock lost by the demolition of St. Michael's estate, the demolition of St. Teresa's Gardens and the partial demolition in the near future of Dolphin House.</p> <p> Other complexes have been promised by the local authority but the Government and its predecessor did not fund them.  I refer to the senior citizens' complexes at Raleigh Square, Armagh Road and at the Ranch and the complex on Jamestown Road.  Whatever happened to the plans for housing in the OPW site on Jamestown Road, which was supposed to have 220 homes?  That was shelved because the private developer could not deliver.  Why is the local authority not given the money to deliver that?</p> <p> I pay tribute to those in sleeping bags, those sleeping in cars and the couch surfers around this city.  I also pay tribute to those working with the homeless in the city trying to alleviate the hardships they face daily from this crisis and, in particular, to a grassroots organisation which has shone a light for many others and which has sprung up in my area, Ballyfermot Help 4 the Homeless, which participated in yesterday's rally.</p> <p> Go n-&eacute;ir&iacute; an t-&aacute;dh leo si&uacute;d ar fad agus mo n&aacute;ire iad si&uacute;d at&aacute; sa Rialtas n&aacute;r dhein faic in aon chor chun d&eacute;ile&aacute;il leis an gcruach&aacute;s m&oacute;r seo.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.898" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/969" speakername="Caoimhgh&iacute;n &Oacute; Caol&aacute;in" time="20:25:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200074#WWW00200"><p>Fr. Peter McVerry, well known to all of us in this House as a Trojan campaigner for the homeless, said yesterday on RTE&rsquo;s &quot;Morning Ireland&quot; that homelessness is even worse today than this time last year.  He said:</p><blockquote>The situation is much worse than last year.  270 beds were opened and within four weeks they were full and the numbers sleeping on the streets were beginning to climb again...<br /><br />On average, 40 families a month are becoming homeless.  At the moment, the average number of families becoming homeless per month is 73.</blockquote><p>These are shocking facts.  We are not even talking about individuals incidents here; we are talking about families.  It would break the coldest of hearts to see the number of people cold and hungry on the streets of our capital city.  Yesterday marked the first anniversary of the death of Jonathan Corrie who passed away in a doorway in the shadow of this very building.  We were united in our grief.  The Government pledged to address this issue.  The Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Kelly, convened an emergency summit on homelessness and the immediate response was to make an additional 220 emergency beds available in Dublin.  This was clearly not enough then and it is certainly not enough now. </p><p>The homeless and housing emergency ravages on.  Approximately 89,872 households are on local authority waiting lists, with some people waiting nine to ten years for a home.  The number of social houses being built has plummeted from 4,209 in 2005 to only 499 in the first six months of 2015.  From January to June of this year, more than 1,000 children were sleeping in emergency accommodation.  The Disability Federation of Ireland reports that 2,900 people are currently living in congregated settings, denying them their right to privacy and independent living.  They cannot be forgotten in all of this.</p><p>This is all happening under the Government&rsquo;s watch.  In budget 2016, the Government allocated &euro;17 million to tackle the emergency homeless crisis while allocating &euro;28 million to increase the thresholds for tax-free inheritances and gifts, which is testament to where its priorities lie.</p><p>The issue of homelessness is not exclusive to Dublin or other major urban centres.  Some 1,327 individuals and families are currently on the housing waiting lists across County Monaghan.  In sheer desperation people are coming to our elected team on an almost daily basis telling their own personal stories and expressing their sheer frustration at the length of time they have been waiting for a house, somewhere they can call home.  It was recently revealed that 28 vacant council houses are available in County Monaghan.  I reiterate a point I made a number of weeks ago when I said that it beggars belief and defies logic that these houses are lying idle when more than 1,300 applicants are on housing waiting lists across my home county.</p><p>It is blindingly obvious that there is a need to refocus and re-evaluate the so-called strategy employed by this Government.  The Bill offers viable, realistic and effective measures to address all of these pressing issues.  It literally is a matter of life or death.</p><p>The Bill brought forward by my colleague, Deputy Ellis, focuses on protection of those at risk of losing their homes, tenants and mortgage holders alike.  We need to put an end to rent uncertainty.  The Government&rsquo;s failure to do this will undoubtedly see more people face the prospect of homelessness.  If this legislation were to be enacted, rents would be linked to the rate of inflation and rent increases would be limited over a period of time.  It also updates the definition of homelessness to put an onus on local authorities to act in support of people who are facing homelessness.</p><p>The lipservice needs to end.  A sea change in Government policy is needed.  The Bill provides us with the perfect opportunity to move forward and to do something that actually works and makes a difference.  I, therefore, call on all Deputies to do the right thing and vote in favour of this Bill.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.899" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1102" speakername="Brian Stanley" time="20:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200075#XXX00100"><p>I welcome the opportunity to speak on this important Bill.  We have heard many excuses from the Government about why we cannot have rent certainty, which is one of the measures that is needed to deal with the issue.  We have a crisis but the Government's response to date has amounted to sticking-plaster solutions.  Very little was done to address the crisis for the past three to four years and as the election draws near, some attempt is being made to put in place measures to deal with increasing rents.  Those measures will not work.  We must have effective rent regulations but these are not among the Government's proposals.</p>  <p>  We also have a crisis because of the supply of local authority housing.  There has been a bias, not just on the part of the Government but also on that of those which preceded it, in the provision of local authority housing.  We have moved away from that and handed the rental sector over to private landlords, voluntary housing bodies, developers or, in effect, anybody who would take on the challenge.  We have thrown money at those solutions.  We have been highlighting the issue for years.  Since the 1990s, Sinn F&eacute;in councillors throughout the country have been highlighting the problem.  It is unfortunate that the situation has mushroomed into a crisis that we are now trying to address.</p>  <p>  Modular houses are among the solutions that have been presented.  When I first heard about modular housing , I thought it was fair enough as an emergency solution.  Now, however, there are reports that modular units could cost as much as &euro;190,000 each.  I do not know whether that is the cost of the unit or whether it also includes development charges for the site and the cost of providing services.  Could the Minister of State, Deputy Coffey, please clarify the amount involved?  One can provide local authority houses for less than &euro;190,000, even in Dublin.  If that is the case, it would amount to a considerable cost and would require a significant outlay for what is being hailed as a temporary solution.</p>  <p>  We have the scandalous situation where a substantial number of properties are still on the books of NAMA and the IBRC.  The properties could be provided and work could be completed on them for a fraction of the proposed cost of the modular housing.  That would be far better than throwing money at private landlords and developers.  We could also use some more of the new houses that are supposed to be provided by NAMA.  The State has asked NAMA to build 20,000 new houses, a maximum of 2,000 of which will be provided as social housing.  We could have 50% of the allocation going to social housing, as that is where the need is at present.  I urge the Government to examine the matter again.</p>  <p>  Another issue of concern is the amount of rent provided to people in receipt of rent subsidy.  The cost of private rented accommodation has increased by 35% since the Government came to office.  In the past year alone rents have increased by 12.8% in Kildare and 13.4% in Laois for a three-bedroom house.  The increases are significant but the rent cap has not been increased.  In County Laois at present a family of two adults and two children are supposed to be able to rent for &euro;480, the maximum provided to them to rent a house but one cannot rent a family home for &euro;480.  I defy anybody to find one.  The Simon Community carried out a survey which found that no property was available to rent in Portlaoise for that amount.</p>  <p>  In the time remaining, I wish to deal with voids.  The Minister of State, Deputy Coffey, and the Minister, Deputy Kelly, have talked a great deal about this issue in the past two years.  I welcome some of the progress that has been made but now, on one hand, the Government is saying it will deal with the issue of voids while, on the other, regulations have been put in place that will give rise more voids.  The regulations that have been introduced force local authorities to advertise houses considered to be abandoned in the local press.  After a month they must advertise the property again in the local press.  First, the fact that the house is vacant is being advertised.  Local authorities can only board up houses in specific circumstances, which leaves them open to squatters and vandalism.  The system is unworkable.  The Minister of State will hear that from officials in local authorities around the country in the coming weeks.  We are opening up a hole in the existing local authority housing stock, which is already small enough.  The pool of social housing is small enough and this will create a black hole that cannot be tenanted.  It will cost a lot of money to refurbish abandoned houses.  People on local authority housing lists are being denied houses.  The Government must examine the matter again.  Rents are not being collected on such properties and local authorities are losing rent also.  Everyone is losing in that situation.  The Minister is saying he is committed to ensuring voids are filled quickly but the situation to which I refer will give rise to problems.  It is already causing difficulties in some areas.</p>  <p>  The Minister must bin the new regulations and revert to the old system concerning houses that are abandoned in order that they might be brought back into use quickly and tenants put into them.  People are on the waiting lists for up to ten years.  I will not repeat what has been said about the homelessness crisis but the situation is having an effect, not only on housing but also on people's health, the education of children and people's mental health.  This is a crisis and the Government must use all the methods available to it to address it.  I urge the Government to take the matter seriously as it has not done so up to now.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.900" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1092" speakername="Paudie Coffey" time="20:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200075#XXX00200"><p>I acknowledge that housing is a considerable challenge for this country but, as the Minister, Deputy Kelly, made clear last night - I agree with him in this regard - the Sinn F&eacute;in Bill before the House is fundamentally flawed in both its detail and focus in respect of homelessness prevention and would create a legal obligation and an unquantified risk to the State that would give rise to unintended consequences.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.901" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1028" speakername="Aengus &Oacute; Snodaigh" time="20:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200075#XXX00300"><p>That is what an emergency is.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.902" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1092" speakername="Paudie Coffey" time="20:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200075#XXX00400"><p>I have heard much rhetoric from those opposite.  It is easy for Deputies to rail against the Government and for them to say that we must produce more social housing.  That is obvious.  We are all very much in agreement on that matter.  We are also agreed that the long-term solution to homelessness is to increase the supply of homes.  However, I have not heard any new or tangible solutions to homelessness being offered by those opposite.  Nothing has been said over and above the multifaceted approach the Government is already undertaking to address and increase the housing supply and to deal with homelessness.  That is the reason the Government's social housing strategy is based on the provision of 35,000 new social housing units at a cost of &euro;3.8 billion and, in addition, the delivery of up to 75,000 units of long-term, quality accommodation to meet housing needs through local authority housing supports schemes.</p>  <p>  Deputies have been critical of the number of units constructed to date, but that is a lazy critique when we all know the length of time required to bring construction projects to completion.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.903" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1066" speakername="Gerry Adams" time="20:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200075#XXX00500"><p>Five years.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.904" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1092" speakername="Paudie Coffey" time="20:35:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200075#XXX00600"><p>Completions are already ramping up around the country and more than 200 projects have been approved and are under way in various local authorities areas.  Only this week I, along with Deputies Halligan and Conway, visited a Government-supported scheme in my city that is being completed by the Respond housing agency that has delivered 57 new units.  That is also having a knock-on effect in creating market mobility by creating vacancies in other parts of the city.</p><p>I wish to confirm to the House<b></b>that in the region of 5,000 tenancies will have been supported under the housing assistance payment, HAP, scheme this year.  That corresponds to the housing needs of 5,000 households that are being met by this scheme.  A total of 200 HAP tenancies were set up last week and 300 are scheduled for completion next week.  That is significant progress.</p><p><i></i>It is also necessary to reiterate the Government's position on rent supplement limits.  A review of the rent limits earlier this year found that the impact of increasing limits at a time of constrained supply in the private rented market would increase costs disproportionately for the Exchequer with little or no new housing available to recipients.  Rather than providing for a blanket increase on rent limits, which would not address the fundamental issue of supply, the Department of Social Protection's preventative policy allows for flexibility in assessing people's individual accommodation needs on a case-by-case basis.  Under the Department's tenancy sustainment measures, more than 5,000 rent supplement households have been provided with uplifts and have retained their rented accommodation in the past 18 months.</p><p>With regard to rent certainty, the Government is implementing measures aimed at stabilising rents.  The most important change is that the minimum period between rent reviews for all tenancies is being increased from 12 to 24 months.  That means anyone who has had a rent review in 2015 will not face a rent review again until at least 2017.  This intervention will be temporary, pending the restoration of normality in the housing market, an approach that will bring stability and predictability for the tenant, protecting them from the circumstances that currently exist in the rental market.</p><p>It is also necessary to reiterate some of the other actions being taken on housing and homelessness.  The ministerial direction requiring key local authorities to prioritise the homeless and vulnerable households in the allocation of tenancies under their control is operating successfully.  At the end of quarter three in the Dublin region, a total of 739 homeless households had exited homeless accommodation into verified and sustained tenancy arrangements.  That compares with a total of 545 exits for homeless households at the same point in 2014.</p><p>The direction is a significant factor in the increased level of success.</p> <p> Deputies should be aware of the Dublin region homelessness pilot scheme in the context of the housing assistance payment.  There are positive indications with regard to the enhancements made to the scheme under budget 2016.  While the pilot scheme is still in its infancy, it is significant that the number of tenancies secured in the past two months is equal to the total for the preceding nine months.</p> <p> Last night the Minister reaffirmed his commitment to the significant national programme to return void local authority units to beneficial use.  Some 2,333 voids were returned to productive use during 2014 and the expected figure for this year is in the region of 2,500.  All of the returned units fall to be allocated under the terms of the direction.</p> <p> The Opposition has not acknowledged the increase in budget 2016 by the Government in the provision for the homeless budget, an increase of 32%, from &euro;53 million to &euro;70 million.  It is incorrect, therefore, to say nothing is being done.  </p> <p> Also public awareness campaigns are playing a crucial role in homelessness prevention.  Complementary campaigns have been implemented by the homeless executive, Dublin region, the Department of Social Protection and the Private Residential Tenancies Board.  A range of measures, identified in the Government's implementation plan on the State's response to homelessness, continue to be progressed.  Some 50% of the 106 measures included in the two plans have been dealt with, with the remaining measures still on track. </p> <p> It is important in this debate that we have factual information.  On the number of rough sleepers - this is an important point - Sinn F&eacute;in is conflating the figures.  In April there were 106 rough sleepers, which I acknowledge is still far too many.  In April 2013 the number was 350.  Therefore, the number is reducing.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.906" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1028" speakername="Aengus &Oacute; Snodaigh" time="20:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200076#YYY00200"><p>Why did the Government open another homeless unit in my area?</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.907" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="20:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200076#YYY00300"><p>Other speakers from the Deputy's party will be contributing.  The Deputy should, therefore, stop interrupting.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.908" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1028" speakername="Aengus &Oacute; Snodaigh" time="20:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200076#YYY00400"><p>The Minister of State has accused us of giving wrong figures.  If 400 beds are being produced, that is doubling the number that were already available in the city.  The Minister of State, therefore, is giving the lie to his own figures.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.909" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1092" speakername="Paudie Coffey" time="20:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200076#YYY00500"><p>The number of rough sleepers is reducing.  The Government has guaranteed rough sleepers a bed for the night.  This is the only capital city in Europe in which a bed can be guaranteed for anyone who wants one.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.910" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1112" speakername="Se&aacute;n Barrett" time="20:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200076#YYY00600"><p>The next timeslot will be shared by Deputies Mary Lou McDonnell, Gerry Adams and Dessie Ellis.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.911" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1008" speakername="Mary Lou McDonald" time="20:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200076#YYY00700"><p>The hour is late, the Government benches are bare and the Minister of State, predictably, has stood up and incanted the same robotic garbage to which we have been listening for the past five years.  If he wants the factual position, this is it.  </p>  <p>  In 2014 the number of additional families entering emergency accommodation in Dublin alone was 40 a month, a doubling of the figure in the previous year.  January 2015 saw a further increase, with a total of 400 families in emergency accommodation.  By August this figure had increased by 76% to 700 families.  Here is a fact for the Minister of State - these families include 1,500 children.  The biggest fact for him is that the State is deliberately failing each and every one of these families and children, in particular.  No amount of sanctimonious guff from Government Deputies, including Deputues Catherine Byrne and Eric Byrne, as well as the Minister of State or anyone else,  will alter that fact or hide the Government's failure.</p>  <p>  The Minister of State criticised Deputy Dessie Ellis's Bill and cited unintended consequences.  Let us spell out what the very intentional consequences of the Bill would be.  First, it seeks to provide rent certainly for people who are terrified that they will lose the roof over their heads.  Second, it would prevent homelessness and place the appropriate burden and responsibility on the Government and the State.  How dare anybody in the Government question families who have loved ones who find themselves homeless?  How dare the Minister of State do this?  If he lived in the same world as the rest of us, he would know that families across the State worry and fret and do their very best for their sons and daughters who cannot cope with their mortgage repayments and lose their homes and are now living in rental accommodation or for loved ones suffering from substance abuse.  How dare the Government suggest the responsibility to clear up the mess over which the Minister of State presides lies with these same families?  They are more than measuring up.  The big failures of the piece are the Minister of State, the Minister and his colleagues who could not even be bothered to show up in the Chamber to have a discussion on this critical matter.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.912" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1066" speakername="Gerry Adams" time="20:45:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200076#YYY00800"><p>The Minister, Deputy Alan Kelly, said last night that the Government would oppose this Bill which he said was flawed, but he did not tell us where or how it was flawed.  He also dismissed Sinn F&eacute;in in his usual charming and persuasive way.  He said our tabling of the Bill was opportunistic.  The fact is that the only thing that is flawed is his attitude to the housing crisis.  Our position is straightforward.  Sinn F&eacute;in believes citizens have a right to a home.  The Minister said this would put a legal obligation on the State.  He is right.  We think the State has a legal obligation to ensure its citizens have a home.  It is interesting that the same excuse he used that the Bill would put a legal obligation on the State is used when he defends putting money into the pockets of the elites, paying the top advisers, making sure those who have creamed it receive huge bonuses.  He says there is a legal obligation on us to do this.  We believe citizens have a right to a home, but the Government does not.  It believes in making things up as it goes along.  The Minister is competing for the position of the very best Minister in the Government at making things up as he or she goes along.  He also has a deep concern about his legacy.  He actually told us that.  He is also the Minister who persists in saying the 20,000 NAMA units due to built by 2020 should be sold on the private market, rather than used as social housing.  NAMA is owned by the State and its citizens, yet these units will be built for the private sector.  That is socialism according to comrade Kelly and <i>&agrave; la</i>Fine Gael.</p><p>I want to deal briefly with the issue of rent regulation.  In my constituency of Louth 1 ,571 people are in receipt of rent supplement.  Rents for three-bedroom homes in County Louth are, on average, around &euro;1,100 a month, while the rent supplement limit for a family with three children has been set at just &euro;600.  I ask the Minister of State to square these figures.  Recent responses to parliamentary questions I submitted show that just 55 applicants in County Louth have had their rent supplement payments increased, that is in spite of the T&aacute;naiste stating - the Taoiseach does it nearly every week - community welfare officers would be instructed to increase payments where not doing so might lead to homelessness.  </p><p>The Government recently scrapped any idea of introducing rent certainty, which the Minister had been promising since the Labour Party conference in February.  He said at the time: &quot;What we are looking for is a process whereby people can have some certainty as regards rent into the future while housing supply is being dealt with.&quot;  His Department later briefed the media that his plans would involve landlords not being able to increase rent beyond the rise in the consumer price index.  It is now obvious that those Fine Gael Ministers - perhaps the Minister of State was among them, I do not know -  referred to as &quot;anonymous cowards&quot; and who warned against the rent certainty proposal have won the argument within the Government.  The recently announced rent regulation is too little too late.  For many tenants, the Government's plans do not amount to a rent freeze, as has been claimed.  There is no rent limit in the case of new tenancies.  This is because the Government has done nothing to limit increases, apart from harking back to the existing regulations which have failed utterly.</p><p>Increases in housing assistance payment rates in some counties are welcome, but without proper controls on rent levels, this will not be enough.  Tax breaks announced for landlords who receive large sums in rent supplement and rental accommodation scheme payments are not a solution because they are always driven by the market and the motivation of profit, and they ensure unscrupulous landlords are able to get whatever cream there is at the top of the milk.</p> <p> Our Bill, which the Minister of State says is flawed and would lead to unforeseen consequences, seeks to link rents to the rate of inflation and to limit rent increases over a period of time.  He should tell us what is wrong with that.  That is what hard pressed tenants at risk of homelessness require.  We also seek to update the definition of "homelessness" and to put an onus on local authorities to act in support of people facing homelessness.  I met young people from Ballyfermot at the rally last night and they have done more to address and tackle the issue of homelessness than the Government.  If the House passes this legislation, it will have finally done something constructive to tackle homelessness after years of passing measures that created the crisis in the first place.  The Government has said it will not do this.  Why would it?  The Government has thrown shapes at this in its final months.  Shame on the Minister of State.  The next time he passes a person in a shop doorway wrapped up in a sleeping bag or covered in cardboard, he should remember that his policy has that person there.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.914" speakerid="com.kildarestreet/member/1022" speakername="Dessie Ellis" time="20:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200077#ZZZ00200"><p>Ba mhaith liom bu&iacute;ochas a thabhairt do gach &eacute;inne a th&oacute;g p&aacute;irt sa d&iacute;osp&oacute;ireacht.  I thank everyone who took part in the debate.  Even though I might not have agreed with everyone's opinion, it was an important debate.  It was a little difficult to listen to the nonsense the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government had to share with us last night.  To have the Bill dismissed on Second Stage due to supposed flaws is hard to take from a member of the Government presiding over the mess of the Legal Services Bill 2011 in the Seanad, with pages of amendments being added one day only to be deleted the next.  He is, of course, the Minister who last week took a three-year old Bill stuck in the Seanad and tacked on 54 pages of amendments to pretend to be doing something about rents.  Let us not pretend the opposition to this Bill is anything to do with its drafting.  It is purely ideological; if not, it could be accepted and amended on Committee Stage like every other Bill.  If it was anything other than ideological, the Minister would have created legislative provisions for people at risk of homelessness previously.  If it was anything other than the Government parties' pathetic subservience to landlords and developers, it would have created rent certainty.  Instead, they have kicked the can down the road while ensuring a rent increase for most tenants just before Christmas as landlords prepare for their weak new measures.</p>  <p>  The Minister's response last night would have been disappointing if it was not true to form.  With one breath, he was complimenting groups such Threshold and, with another, condemning the measures they have called for because they were being put forward by Sinn F&eacute;in.  Perhaps if he had made it to the debate on time, he might have heard me quoting from the very report that highlighted the need for this reform, which was published by Threshold, Focus, Simon Community and the Society of St. Vincent de Paul.  I did not miss his contribution on the RTE news last night where he bragged about the provision of 4,600 emergency beds.  He never stopped to think how disgraceful it is that this number of emergency beds is needed in Ireland in 2015.  He certainly did not seem to think about that when he came into the House and arrogantly dismissed provisions for homelessness prevention and rent certainty in this legislation. </p>  <p>  The Minister said Sinn F&eacute;in is strong on rhetoric.  This is from someone who has created more pages of reports and press releases than he has built homes.  He clearly has no clue.  His solution to homelessness is to buy modular units, which are a third more expensive than houses currently for sale.  They will cost &euro;191,000 each.  It will cost &euro;75 million for 500 units, yet houses can be bought for less than &euro;120,000 in the areas he plans to put these units.  It took him a full year to get around to a one-year delay in rent increases with absolutely no provision for rent certainty or rent control.  He called his measures innovative but there is nothing new or different about spin and bluster from him and the Government and there is nothing new about failing to deliver for those most in need. </p>  <p>  This Bill like every Bill taken on Second Stage is imperfect but its objectives are positive and good.  It seeks to give local authorities and other relevant bodies the power and responsibility to help those at risk of losing their homes and to provide support to keep them in their homes because they have nowhere else to go.  Surely in a country where 73 families become homeless every month, there is a need to keep people in their homes.  Surely in a country where we spend &euro;70 million a year just to stand still on homelessness, we need to protect people in their homes.  When hotel rooms, bed and breakfast accommodation, and modular units costing &euro;191,000 each are the other options, keeping people in their homes becomes the only real, humane and sensible option.  The same logic applies to rent certainty.  Rent certainty is not what the Government falsely called a rent freeze; it is a rent increase delay.  It is the limiting of future increases to give certainty to tenants.  It is the bare minimum as rent regulation goes.  It is far short of the model we would like in place where rents are controlled by local standard rates, which goes much further than the Government's weak offering.  The only certainty the Government offers renters is that they will be subject to higher rents before Christmas and they will be even higher in two years.  The Minister has also put a limit of four years on this measure and has called it a sunset clause.  He needs to go into the sunset, like all the other members of Government.  The rejection of the Bill by the Government is unacceptable and pathetic.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.915/1" nospeaker="true" time="20:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200077#ZZZ00300"><p>Question put:</p><p>The Dáil divided: Tá, 32; Níl, 58.</p><br/><p>Tellers: Tá, Deputies Dessie Ellis and Aengus Ó Snodaigh; Níl, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Paul Kehoe.</p></speech>
        <division id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.915/2" nospeaker="true" divdate="2015-12-02" time="20:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200077#ZZZ00300">
            <divisioncount ayes="32" noes="58" />
                <mplist vote="aye">
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1066" vote="aye">Gerry Adams</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1190" vote="aye">Tommy Broughan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1071" vote="aye">Dara Calleary</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1193" vote="aye">Joan Collins</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1083" vote="aye">Michael Colreavy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1195" vote="aye">Ruth Coppinger</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1037" vote="aye">Se&aacute;n Crowe</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1022" vote="aye">Dessie Ellis</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1047" vote="aye">Martin Ferris</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1198" vote="aye">Michael Fitzmaurice</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1050" vote="aye">Tom Fleming</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1108" vote="aye">Noel Grealish</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1094" vote="aye">John Halligan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/960" vote="aye">S&eacute;amus Healy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1040" vote="aye">Michael Kitt</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/998" vote="aye">P&aacute;draig MacLochlainn</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/999" vote="aye">Charlie McConalogue</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1008" vote="aye">Mary Lou McDonald</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1017" vote="aye">Finian McGrath</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1090" vote="aye">Mattie McGrath</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/981" vote="aye">Sandra McLellan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1202" vote="aye">Catherine Murphy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/969" vote="aye">Caoimhgh&iacute;n &Oacute; Caol&aacute;in</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1044" vote="aye">&Eacute;amon &Oacute; Cu&iacute;v</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1028" vote="aye">Aengus &Oacute; Snodaigh</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/984" vote="aye">Jonathan O'Brien</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1005" vote="aye">Maureen O'Sullivan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1001" vote="aye">Thomas Pringle</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1203" vote="aye">R&oacute;is&iacute;n Shortall</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/970" vote="aye">Brendan Smith</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1102" vote="aye">Brian Stanley</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1080" vote="aye">Peadar T&oacute;ib&iacute;n</mpname>
                </mplist>
                <mplist vote="no">
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1062" vote="no">James Bannon</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/980" vote="no">Tom Barry</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/974" vote="no">Pat Breen</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1016" vote="no">Richard Bruton</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1079" vote="no">Ray Butler</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/989" vote="no">Jerry Buttimer</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1029" vote="no">Catherine Byrne</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1030" vote="no">Eric Byrne</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1042" vote="no">Ciar&aacute;n Cannon</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/975" vote="no">Joe Carey</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1092" vote="no">Paudie Coffey</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1031" vote="no">Michael Conaghan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1041" vote="no">Paul Connaughton</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1093" vote="no">Ciara Conway</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1087" vote="no">Noel Coonan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1099" vote="no">Marcella Corcoran Kennedy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1006" vote="no">Joe Costello</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/986" vote="no">Michael Creed</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1046" vote="no">Jimmy Deenihan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/968" vote="no">Pat Deering</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/957" vote="no">Bernard Durkan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1078" vote="no">Damien English</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1014" vote="no">Alan Farrell</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1085" vote="no">Frank Feighan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1068" vote="no">Peter Fitzpatrick</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1076" vote="no">Dominic Hannigan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/995" vote="no">Noel Harrington</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1106" vote="no">Simon Harris</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/949" vote="no">Martin Heydon</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1033" vote="no">Kevin Humphreys</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1012" vote="no">Derek Keating</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1098" vote="no">Paul Kehoe</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1088" vote="no">Alan Kelly</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1110" vote="no">Se&aacute;n Kyne</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/982" vote="no">Kathleen Lynch</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/996" vote="no">Michael McCarthy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1180" vote="no">Helen McEntee</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1194" vote="no">Gabrielle McFadden</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1000" vote="no">Dinny McGinley</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1082" vote="no">Tony McLoughlin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1004" vote="no">Mary Mitchell O'Connor</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1070" vote="no">Michelle Mulherin</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/985" vote="no">Dara Murphy</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1056" vote="no">Dan Neville</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1045" vote="no">Derek Nolan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1073" vote="no">John O'Mahony</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/971" vote="no">Joe O'Reilly</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1061" vote="no">Jan O'Sullivan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1081" vote="no">John Perry</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/964" vote="no">Ann Phelan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1074" vote="no">Michael Ring</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1013" vote="no">Brendan  Ryan</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1025" vote="no">Alan Shatter</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/961" vote="no">Emmet Stagg</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/978" vote="no">David Stanton</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/1095" vote="no">Liam Twomey</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/948" vote="no">Leo Varadkar</mpname>
                    <mpname id="com.kildarestreet/member/950" vote="no">Jack Wall</mpname>
                </mplist>
        </division>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.915/3" nospeaker="true" time="20:55:00" url="http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015120200077#ZZZ00300"><p>Question declared lost.</p></speech>
    <speech id="com.kildarestreet/dail/2015-12-02a.916" nospeaker="true" time="20:55:00" ><p>The D&aacute;il adjourned at at 11 p.m. until 9.30 a.m. on Thursday, 3 December 2015.</p></speech>
</publicwhip>