Better information on soul presence or lack thereof required

[20kdc]

Description

It seems like at least one new player had trouble with the way soul information appears on examine.
Note there may be a colouring issue with this also, see below table.
It's worth noting that red is used for pretty much the one case when you absolutely never want to gib the body as a non-antag.

Reproduction
Examine bodies in various soul-related states.

Screenshots
Screenshots TODO, but here's quotes of the text, categoried by severity:

Maybe just a temporary issue:

• SSD: yellow { CAPITALIZE(SUBJECT($ent)) } { CONJUGATE-HAVE($ent) } a blank, absent-minded stare and appears completely unresponsive to anything. { CAPITALIZE(SUBJECT($ent)) } may snap out of it soon.

Clone this person:

• Dead and ghosted but clonable: red { CAPITALIZE(POSS-ADJ($ent)) } soul has departed.

Braindead and okay to pass to chef:

• Prematurely ghosted: mediumpurple { CAPITALIZE(SUBJECT($ent)) } { CONJUGATE-BE($ent) } totally catatonic. The stresses of life in deep-space must have been too much for { OBJECT($ent) }. Any recovery is unlikely.
• Ghost roled: yellow { CAPITALIZE(POSS-ADJ($ent)) } soul has departed and moved on. Any recovery is unlikely.

Additional context

See: https://discord.com/channels/310555209753690112/675078881425752124/980101663618629642

[20kdc]

I think the biggest implication here is that the soul has departed text should be dropped, as it sounds way too much like the and moved on line for ghost roles, and the colours should be changed so that "okay to gib" players give red examine text while "non-okay to gib" players give yellow examine text.
Just my opinion on this.

[Myctai]

Might want to just drop all the faux-IC play with concept of "soul", acknowledge text on examine to be OOC concept and change messages to clearly tell status of body/character and whenever it's OK to dispose of body. So far there are those states:

• Mob is alive, player controls it, not OK to gib (no special message)
• Mob is alive, player disconnected, but might reconnect, not OK to gib (yellow "absent-minded")
• Mob is alive, but fresh out of cloner, player is about to gain control, not OK to gib (purple "catatonic")
• Mob is alive, but player used /ghost, unlikely to ever control again, OK to destroy (purple "catatonic")
• Mob is dead, player awaits cloning, not OK to gib (red "departed")
• Mob is dead, player disconnected, but might reconnect, might be OK to destroy (yellow "and moved on")
• Mob is dead, player controls other mob, unlikely to ever control again, OK to destroy (yellow "and moved on")

As you see, whole bunch of those share messages, messages are rather vague and use confusing colors.

[Myctai]

@Zumorica @Just-a-Unity-Dev are welcome to drop their own opinion instead of just leaving silent reaction thingy, in my opinion change is needed, I had to tell medical doctors multiple times over LOOC how to determine whenever body can be stuffed into cloner or given to chef.

[Just-a-Unity-Dev]

I mean, yeah, sure, we could drop the faux-IC stuff but it doesn't feel the same way. Besides, all people need to know is "Red clone yellow or purple bad".

You're kinda asking to drop the apple in an apple pie.

[Myctai]

"Red clone yellow or purple bad"

As I just demonstrated with my examples, while "red" is pretty much always "clone", "yellow or purple" are not always "bad".

[Just-a-Unity-Dev]

"Red clone yellow or purple bad"

As I just demonstrated with my examples, while "red" is pretty much always "clone", "yellow or purple" are not always "bad".

Red clone, yellow possibly bad, purple "wait a few minutes"

[Just-a-Unity-Dev]

Honestly, we can solve this problem without removing the faux-IC, that's all I'm saying

[Zumorica]

@Myctai I don't agree with straight up using OOC concepts in examine, it should continue to use IC wording and the concept of "souls".

If I leave an upvote/downvote reaction it's because it's an easy and quick way to say "I agree/disagree" when I have nothing else to add, so please don't ping me needlessly, thank you.

[Tarkken]

I think the biggest implication here is that the soul has departed text should be dropped, as it sounds way too much like the and moved on line for ghost roles, and the colours should be changed so that "okay to gib" players give red examine text while "non-okay to gib" players give yellow examine text. Just my opinion on this.

Perhaps saying "their soul is adrift" instead of "their soul has departed"?

[Chief-Engineer]

There really need to be 2-3 messages (or colors, something that players can easily remember or make sense of) that are clearly separated by the player's ability to get back into the entity:

• Can't get back (early /ghost, /suicide, took ghost role, no mind assigned, etc)
• Can get back (/ghosted in crit, DCed)
• Optionally, currently in the body (dead but in body, alive but DCed?)

Right now red and purple are well defined, but yellow is used for both states where return is impossible and ones where it is. If the colors are well defined, then the text can have pretty much any flavor text and people will still be able to understand

[Errant-4]

From the POV of crew and medical staff, is there a meaningful difference between "soul is in the body" and "soul has departed but is still around"? As these are the two most clonable states, why not just omit mentioning souls on these, and state something like "There are no lifesigns"

[Chief-Engineer]

From the POV of crew and medical staff, is there a meaningful difference between "soul is in the body" and "soul has departed but is still around"? As these are the two most clonable states, why not just omit mentioning souls on these, and state something like "There are no lifesigns"

Being in the body could indicate an intent to accept cloning, but imo the minimum needed is to be able to distinguish between a body that can possibly be cloned at some point and one that can never be cloned. Splitting up the "can possibly be cloned at some point" into whatever categories isn't really important as long as it's easy to tell which bodies can safely be destroyed. It might be useful to tell which bodies can currently accept a clone, (aren't DCed) but I wouldn't call it necessary.