Bollard type: Foldable or removable with key?

[westnordost]

It is unclear how to answer the bollard quest for foldable bollards that are foldable with a key.

[westnordost]

@FloEdelmann

[FloEdelmann]

I've also noticed this while surveying. We could solve this similar to the "removable with key" and "removable without key" options that both tag bollard=removable:

StreetComplete/app/src/main/java/de/westnordost/streetcomplete/quests/bollard_type/BollardType.kt

Lines 3 to 10 in 6b86eb0

	enum class BollardType(val osmValue: String) {
	RISING("rising"),
	REMOVABLE_WITH_KEY("removable"),
	REMOVABLE_WITHOUT_KEY("removable"),
	FOLDABLE("foldable"),
	FLEXIBLE("flexible"),
	FIXED("fixed"),
	}

So, split the current "foldable" option into:

• "foldable with key" (with a new image that has both the foldable part and the keyhole/lock in detail) which tags bollard=foldable
• "foldable without key" (with the current "foldable" image) which also tags bollard=foldable

@RubenKelevra what do you think?

[westnordost]

Ah, it's actually not a tagging problem then... maybe, why not remove the "with a key" option and just write "removable (with or without key)", same with foldable?

[RubenKelevra]

Foldables are always removable with a key. :)

Or have you encountered one which is foldable without a key?

[RubenKelevra]

The main issue is actually that bollards removable without key are actually pretty hard to remove by hand. So it takes more time to remove them than those which can be unlocked with a key. :)

[westnordost]

Sure, but if whether it requires a key or not doesn't matter for the tagging, then this shouldn't be made a subject for the user.

[RubenKelevra]

Well, the key in this case is not a real key but a utility key. Fire fighters etc have this one to put them down.

[RubenKelevra]

@matkoniecz actually no. You're fine to drive through them with your motorcycle. They only omit traffic that is too wide to pass by.

Only signs disallow specific traffic to pass by law.

So the only thing you can obviously tag is "maximal width" :)

[westnordost]

Okay, so is there actually any reason for having two pictures in the quest, one "removable with key" and one "removable without key"? If the reason was to avoid confusion, well, I was confused exactly by that.

[Helium314]

There were some bollards where I didn't answer the quest because I didn't know whether a key is required for removal. If it doesn't go into any tag, I don't want to bother checking for a lock...

[westnordost]

I hid the posts talking about access=private because this if off topic - in this quest, the bollard and only the bollard is tagged, not the road "behind" it.

So, my current suggestion would be #3116 (comment) . Are there any better ideas or counter-arguments?

[mnalis]

Well, the key in this case is not a real key but a utility key. Fire fighters etc have this one to put them down.

@RubenKelevra hmmm interesting, but is it? What about these or these?

Those are much more common here in Croatia, and they do have a custom key (which I'm actually dubious emergency vehicle drivers have a "master" key for). Not at all like for example fire_hydrant utility keys you seem to talk about.

Wiki for bollard=removable does actually say "A bollard which can be pulled out of the ground and removed from its location to allow access, often only by the person with the key. Normally in place, and not generally passable. "

So we may have definition problem here; what is actually meant by bollard=removable at all? The one only firefighters can remove, or the one only the owner (and others with copy of key) can remove?

[RubenKelevra]

Well removeable means you don't need any tools etc. so you can basically just pull it straight out of the ground. But they get mud/sand/stones wedged in at times, so it CAN be hard to remove.

On the other hand those with general keys the emergency crew has (triangle for example) are extremely quick to remove, since they are not actually in the ground but only have a hook which hold them.

The ones with private keys are not allowed on public streets here AFAIK. So they might get installed on private properties, but in this case I would consider them as fixed.

A fire/rescue crew can't rely on an owner to have the private key ready. They would just remove it with a grinder.

[westnordost]

As no suggestions have been made, I will replace the selections "removable without key" and "removable with key" with "removable (with or without key)" and add "with or without key" to the foldable selection too.