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[PROPOSAL] Sunflower Land Team Revenue #188
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I support this idea and like the fact a premine could be avoided. |
Since we love the transparency, i would says that since we could check fee rate and the wallet is receiving that fee, everything will be ok. On the future lets say that wallet is super health, you always can use fee to burn and control economy. |
Definitely. Once the wallet gets healthy and a DAO is formed these sort of ventures would be achievable. The team and community can decide what would be best for the projects health and where the funds can go. This fee could go to 0 or it could remain and fund other areas in the project such as the idea you mentioned :) |
Taxing token buyers instead of Players seems the best approach. |
I totally support a tax mechanism on the token if you put that into place. It's the best way to get instant funding from the buy & sell of the token. 2% is too low though, I would suggest 6-8%. That makes sure at the start you can fund your project. Then, once you become more successful, it can be lowered. Better to have a higher amount of money to make the game better, than to have not enough, otherwise the innovative ideas the community will love to see and the things you want to build are always out of reach. Going down is always welcome, going up causes complaints. |
as a player i don't mind to be taxed 2% for swapping my hard earn Sunflower Land Token knowing i'm contributing to build this awesome game.so yeah for the fee as a buyer or seller . |
@defido That is a good point, going up will cause a lot of issues. We can always go down. Perhaps a 5% fee is a good middle ground here. |
I will happily ape into 10%+ coins, and have so very often. If your project is rocking even 10% doesn't bother me. Clifford_inu has a 15% sell. It hit 100M MC in one day. Baby Doge is doing fine at 10%. You guys smashed it last time, if you hit that scale again, rewarding the community by going down is great. But yeah, going up, always unhappy customers. 5% is fine, but honestly if you said 10%, but 5% of that goes directly into development/team and 5% into marketing/whatever else is needed. I wouldn't bat an eye. I personally think 5% isn't enough, but it's a team decision. These things cost real money to run. If it was me, it would be 7% at least. As then I have room to split % into the areas that are needed. At 2% I can't split anything at all. |
@defido good points here! |
The other approach we can take is that we tax sells and not buys. This would encourage people to hold onto their tokens and encourage new people to join the community and hold. |
Yeah I think is a good option too, but this would tax all the players rather than the buyers only! |
Tax buys, otherwise they buy and never sell and you're in the same problem of a lack of funds to fund the project. Selling you could set a different tax rate, which is becoming common. It's like giving someone an iPhone to use from the Apple store and then only getting the money back in 2 years when they sell it. You actually shift the funding burden into yourselves and have to fund it yourselves just to keep up with demand. The more you grow, the more it costs, but you made $0 as people were onboarded. The idea would be that they play the game and make back the taxes, just like any real world taxation. It's a farm, farms pay taxes. Assets cost money to buy, yada yada. I think you'll find the players will get pretty clever and start making spreadsheets and tax tools to know how to still make a profit. Of which they still will. These are just my thoughts, the only ones that can know if they can sustain the server & people costs, will be yourselves :D |
And we can use the same idea "We can always lower the tax" in the future if needed. |
Tax is 10%, community outrage and then OK, 'we lowered taxes'. Tax is 0%, we're changing it to 10%, COMMUNITY RAGE. Don't worry about taxes, focus on the game play and things, focus on funding it to be a GREAT game, the more that goes into that, the less anyone cares about % this or % that. The more you scale, the less taxes are needed, the more you find your footing in in-game revenue, etc etc. This is a community decision? I vote TAX US. 👍 Others might think otherwise. Maybe there will be a happy medium between bottom line and community sentiment. |
I loved the idea as I have another one, you can add a donation (as in v1 where we donated to other institutions) but a donation that we do for the project itself. |
As in another option for donations, still have the NGOs and SFL as donation options. |
Yep I agree with this. Taxing the buys makes more sense. The more the game grows the more the funding grows the better the game gets. Repeat 😄 |
@defido @spencerdezartsmith @Rofrtd @silici0 @AncientHorse @Pranav-yadav @Synedes I have revised a few options on this Proposal including the 'Withdraw fee' and the 'NFT fee'. After playing around with the tax fee approach it introduces a few problems:
I'm leaning towards the Withdraw approach but would appreciated your thoughts. The 'Withdraw fee' is a mechanism which will favour loyal and long term players and people to farm on a single account. It also makes it much easier for newcomers and liquidity providers to swap the underlying token. |
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Oh yes I also wanted to say that I fully support taxing of some form to ensure that the team is funded sufficiently to run the game, inject liquidity when required, as well as perform some airdrops/marketing stuff. These are important aspects of ensuring stability in the game. Keep up the good work Sirs ! [ Discord nick- Train88 : p ] |
Glad you like my withdraw fee suggestion! |
@Meowgikarp The locked SFL sounds like a really nice idea. This is something I would like to explore, but will be a bit too much work to implement for our launch date. |
Yes I agree with @Meowgikarp, the locked token system is another mechanic that I have seen been implemented on multiple different games/projects |
Just an idea and I'm not sure if it's technically possible. What if instead of the burn pool being at Quickswap, Sunflower Land had its own uniswap based pool and all the fees went to the devs? This has a couple benefits:
Players could still choose to shop around for best exchange rate but the game could provide a link to Sunflowerland pool by default. Apologize if this is a silly idea and I know that would be another huge piece to code prior to launch day. (edited to modify assumptions) |
The
The CEX issue is only short term, it's not likely to list on a major exchange very soon, and in that time, the taxes raised could fund months, then they can be turned off again anyway. Which is where in game sales taxes or 'touching the metamask sell button' come into play. Such as a small MATIC fee for every time you harvest. As well as selling upgraded farms and other things for in game revenue. The buy/sell tax is only short term, until the game matures and the in game sales can compensate. At least I think so. |
@AncientHorse Great idea! But a lot of effort for our launch 😅 An in-game Auction house mechanic will appear one day which is better rates to and facilitates swapping of in-game items and resources |
@defido Great points. It definitely is the frame we need to look at this problem - What is a short term solution that can fund the startup of the game and give us 6-12 months of development. The game will largely turn into an NFT creator economy game and that is where we will make the revenue. |
Taxing helped SAFEMOON & BABYDOGE scale, then SAFEMOON went down and still survives. I honestly think make it 10% flat and make it simple. You can always change it later, and as you say, you're an NFT game in the end. This is a short solution and 10% is fair. I actually don't hear many complaints in the BDC community about 10%. If you want to sweeten the deal, allow some reflections and remove them later too. This is a short term funding thing, and maybe an ICO, but I feel they're against the community part. Whatever it is, a lot of suggestions are really complex. You can add taxation to a marketing wallet in solidity in about 5 minutes and turn it off in 1. |
I think overall this is a smart approach to this issue. I also stand behind the fact that devs should be paid for their hard work in some way. I would like to offer one suggestion, the ability to donate either MATIC or SFF to the project from within the game. Completely optional but a way to help support the devs. Can't wait to get in! |
I can't agree with the "Withdraw Fee" values, they are very high. Maybe lower a bit the quantity of SLF required for the percentage and allow 0%-2% in the minimum percentage. |
Hi, I am ok if you give me a golden cauliflower :) Nooo, let me play for ever your game will be enough ! So hope most people will accept your proposal ! May the cauliflower be with you ! |
seems like a great idea to me :) |
I love the revenue proposal. One additional thing that could be made I think is the opportunity to donate to the causes you have more than once. Maybe just as a button somewhere rather than a prompt. So that way we can donate more later on if we want to. You can take a percentage of that donations. |
I'm mostly fine with everything but i suggest some more toughts about 2 things : 1/ First is the team revenues, paying team with MATIC is fine, but recently crazyminder (and others projects) got shutdown by the team. For crazyminers, team was paid in BNB on Minting and had no difficulty to shutdown at the first dump of the token, because shutting down the project had no financial consequences at all for them. I think that was an easy tought for them, shutdown the project that became too hard for them and keep all earning ? Most of people would do this for sure, no matter their first tought/motivation at the begining of a project. But as a developer i think you need to be paid in MATIC but as a player/investor, i'd like the team to choose a ceiling amount. And over the ceilling of revenue those matic are used to buy SFL, that are locked for 6 months (relative to the date of the bought). This create a bonus pool for your continuous success (and so only for the success ..) This way you can't shutdown the project without loosing a lot with us (and get a fair wage for your work because it only impact the bonus). I also think this pool should be used to keeping market stable (burning a part of the pool in case of hard down on the price, and sale it without waiting for the unlock if the price goes too high) Saling when price is too high may help new investor to enter at a fair price, and reduce the risk for FOMO to loosing too much money if then the price getting low. This way it's fair for new and old player to play, and for the team that succeed even more that expected. This way, if the game succeed, team will get a recurring bonus with 6 month of delay, if the game get so good that the price is exploding, the team get a special reward/bonus immediatly, and the game keep a stable economy. This also would create more trust for everyone. And obviously this has to be corelated with halving. 2/ I spoiled a bit, but withdraw fee should to be corelated with halving too ;) ps: love your work, and i trust the team but the first subjects has to be talk in my opinion ^^ edit 2 : maybe adding a withdraw delay between every withdraw (like 7 days) that help to avoid market manipulation |
The sunflower team must have income from the game, otherwise it is not acceptable, but it is much better when they receive this income little by little and slowly from the players. |
I love all the suggestions except the withdraw fee, it kinda scares me that u consider ppl to withdraw 1000-5000 tokens at once, it would be how long holding the tokens to reach it in your maths and what's the reason to someone hold it and not put any liquidity or something like that, but hold in-game without withdraw? I would be happier with a stake system than that Edit: I think that nerf the flowers is better than withdraw fee, also, withdraw fee makes the price get lower at same time, cuz instead of we maybe selling, is devs definitivelly selling SFL |
The importance and growth of sun flower was that all players with very low budgets could earn money. I hope this policy will be repeated correctly in version 2. |
Seems like some great changed that will not only improve the game for many, but also deter the use of multi accounts just to farm SFL token. Hopefully we will be able to play it again soon! |
Still Remember this !! |
I love all the proposals and I agree with all of them, my only question is whether to donate the entire matic for each of the farms in which we have invested in v1? |
sunflower to the moon 🚀 |
Do what Tank Battle is doing 5% selling fee, and read their whitepaper, do not mess it up SFF. |
I totally support, let's do it : ) |
Agree with @Protocteur ! Either fees or adjust brackets w/r to halvings. I imagine new players won't be able to sustain themselves if they have small capital... |
I like these proposals seems reasonable to make an economy sustainable. Also it could be added make some pools for staking rewards and therefore diminishing supply |
Hey @adamhannigan. Are the withdrawal fees final? I couldn't help but feel that the withdrawal fees are too high. Especially that jumping from one bracket to another is not as easy anymore considering the price at 1M. Maybe we can tweak it a bit say 20, 17, 15, 13, 10? Also, since other forms of tax has been factored in, maybe make the amount of these different taxes be that they do not become too burdensome. |
A few key points to remember about these withdrawal fees is that they:
Both of these items naturally improve the game which leads to more traffic, more players and all your tokens, collectibles and resources becoming more valuable. The higher these fees are, the faster the game will grow 🚀 |
The Withdraw Fee tax ratio is terrifying me. It is more than encouraging players to hold. This may discourage transaction and reduce trade volume. And it is one time. So maybe you won't be able to earn much. Why don't you create an exchange market or lottery pool inside the metaverse and deduct a proportional fee so that you can profit from active trading. |
Sorry i might be late to the party but i read most of the comments what i extracted is : -Taxing transactions mostly withdrawing to encourage people to hold the token the problems that we would face with this is either the taxes feel too high for the players or The Liquidity providers ( I dont feel like personally thats a problem because the entry fee of the game is already too low id rather have a higher entry fee if it means ensuring the projects longetivity) What i would suggest : Adding a limited edition funding crowd for the project funding with some limited time rewards that dont need to be too flashy its just to show us that we believed in the project since the start ! -the fund crowding should be annouced by the start of the beta since players would see the life of the project and ( lets -This would help with providing the initial money to lunch and fill up the games reserves way faster than relying on tax -maybe disguise this crowd funding with a lunching carnaval in which we play games like find the easter egg in the map within this time limit . the first to give this items effect in the events chat wins to participate u pay 1 matic as an example there could be alot of ways around this -Or this one which is my favorite why not utilise a storyline (The SunFlowerLand a utopia built by a community of farmers whose sole purpose in life is the growth of there crop and most importantly the growth of there community the still fetus like Land is endagered since before its official lunch by evil , an evil lurking in every corner of this world , an evil that is inevitable to face for this community to come forth ,The land has called you once and asked you for the patience to wait for its come back , Now The land is calling its community back to breath life into it and make it finally reach the corners of this world , and extend to the moon, The Land is in need of its community...Will you answer its calling? |
I like the overall idea of this proposal however, there are 2 issues : I suggest 10 MATIC, where 5 goes to the liquidity pool, 4.9 goes to the dev team, and 0.1 to charity. |
Parece razonable propuesta, para que el juego dure y sea viable, sólo que ademas de esta propuesta habria que buscar otras mas porque no debemos sustentarnos en solo una propuesta, es decir, si se va viendo alguna falla, entonces emplear las siguientes que tengamos a la mano, y no detenernos por tanto tiempo y ser progresivos en el juego jugando y en la generación de beneficios. Disculpen pero no se mucho de esto pero tratare de ver si asemás de estas propuesta habrá alguna otra tambien muy fiable.. |
@Z1kou Some great ideas 👏 We will explore mechanisms like this in the future, but they require work and time we don't have at the moment (until we get more developers). In terms of the pre-sale of items, I want to avoid these types of avenues. I think there are a lot of overhyped projects that are selling NFTs for money without even having a game. I would prefer that we release the game and the NFT at the same time. The industry needs less hype and actual gameplay 😅 |
@adamhannigan Reasonable i agree we are here not trying to sell an idea but until the project is live then we can explore ! Then the short and simple answer is we ask the community if they are willing to donate to the project over the 1 matic value and with a higher taxe value on the start of the game like 10% till the revenue of the devs is ensured is reasonable for the work that has been done from the beginning of the project to now ! (It's definitely well deserved ❤️ ) A Donation quest could be viable here . not gonna make this one anylonger have a nice evening / morning xd |
🔥🔥🔥 |
you got my attention and my time, my hoping for the best in future |
The purpose of this proposal is to discuss a mechanism that will enable the creators of Sunflower Land to receive funds to build the project.
The game has been bootstrapped completely by open source developers without any funding. To reach our true vision and create the future of the MetaVerse the team will obviously need a line of revenue to support building the game and the community.
The goal of this proposal is to find a means to produce a revenue which would be used to build out the vision for the game and incentivise contributors. We are a community project, and open source all proposals for community consensus. Please be respectful of those sharing their ideas.
The metrics below are based on acquiring an initial reserve to build the game out. Once the team has sufficient funds a more farmer friendly model can be adopted.
Expenses
$1 MATIC to play
When creating a farm, players will be required to donate 1 MATIC - 10% would go to a charity of your choice and the rest to the Sunflower Team.
Pros 👍
Cons
Withdraw Fee
When withdrawing resources from your farm to your wallet, a withdraw fee would be taken. This will be used to fund the project and support future features like the Wishing Well Liquidity Pool. #207
Note: These fees are likely to reduce once the team has built a reserve of funds to build the project. The team will not raise fees at any point unless the community votes and agrees on it.
Pros 👍
Cons
Transaction Fee - $0.1 Fee
In Sunflower Land, players can decide when to sync their data on chain. We anticipate a user would sync to the Blockchain every 1-3 days. Each transaction incurs an operating cost that architecture must support and the team must pay for.
When transferring or withdrawing data from the Blockchain, include a flat 0.1 MATIC fee.
Note: This fee does not apply to saving your farms progress. It only applies when you wish to transfer your assets on-chain.
Open Sea Royalties
Add a royalty fee onto NFTs that are traded on secondary markets. For instance, on Open Sea items apply a 10% on all sales which goes to the teams wallet.
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