Xenos were low, low energy. Time to make them winners. #17180
Conversation
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We Colonial Marines now? |
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👍 Hopefully they won't be total shit after this |
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I can get behind this. @WJohn will be interested in this one as well. |
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How does this work with the toggle-able hardship helmets though? |
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Robustin stop with the walls of text for gods sake its easier to read the lines changed than your actual posts |
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HahhHhHAHAHHAHaHaHaHa Xenos are already powerful, which is sort of balanced out by shittiness of players who play them. And the xenos shouldn't be gg no re round enders. Just like any other threat, they should be hard but manageable, like they currently are. |
Xeno rounds wouldn't suck if we were. |
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Colonial Marines had a good facehugger system, with longer hugger throws and breakable helmets we can hopefully move towards a decent Xeno system. I mean for fuck's sake the first time we see facehuggers in Alien they bust right through someone's EVA helmet! Plz. Do you even place this game? Xenos used to wipe out stations, now they're lucky if they can wipe out the viro monkeys before they get annihilated. The queen simply can't defend herself and the brood lacks the tools to defend her. Assuming hunters are, uh hunting, you're basically a head of staff that moves like you've got 5hp and you're holding a telescopic baton and an ebow that takes 20 seconds to recharge versus a revolution that raided the armory. You're 110% fucked. Xenos are not a threat anymore, they're target practice for RND. WE'RE GONNA MAKE XENOS GREAT AGAIN FOLKS. I put a changelog at the top for the most raw condensed summary you could ask for. Wall of text is entirely optional. Also am I the fucking rain man because I can read one of my own paragraphs in like 6-7 seconds? Christ I understand I write too much sometimes but jesus it takes like 30 seconds to clear through my OP after I spent hours working on it. |
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I edited your changelog down to the actually relevant things and fixed the unclosed tag. |
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Wait, disarm doesn't knock people down to the ground anymore? 👎 for that. |
Dorsisdwarf
added
the
Balance
It does, the default 80% chance to stun a target with tackle is still there. He just changed the remaining 20% to be a disarm and stamina loss. Robustin did explain this, but he tends to be extremely...verbose. His OP was forcibly edited, but the original post is placed above. It is actually a buff to the tackle, not a nerf. You need to reveal the code above his changes in order to see the full "disarm" effect. |
| @@ -37,13 +37,10 @@ | |||
| visible_message("<span class='danger'>[M] has tackled down [src]!</span>", \ | |||
| "<span class='userdanger'>[M] has tackled down [src]!</span>") | |||
| else | |||
| if (randn <= 99) | |||
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Git does not let me post the comment where I want it to be, but you should change the if (randn <= 80) on line 33 to a prob(80), as the number is now longer checked twice, and the disarm stance no longer has a third possible outcome.
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Cool. Remember to check what happens to hardsuit helmets that get facehugged. I share the concern raised earlier about them being damaged/destroyed, then trying to redeploy them. What happens? Is the helmet lost forever? Is it simply deactivated (I would personally pick this one)? Will it runtime?
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@Ultimate-Chimera That's not correct, my changelog got edited by someone else who didn't understand the change, I've corrected it. |
| for(var/atom/movable/AM in thrownatoms) | ||
| if(AM == user || AM.anchored) continue | ||
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| var/obj/effect/overlay/targeteffect = new /obj/effect/overlay{icon='icons/effects/effects.dmi'; icon_state="shieldsparkles"; mouse_opacity=0; density = 0}() |
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I'm not sure we really want to use {stuff}.
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We don't officially disallow it, but we don't officially allow it either.
Personally I feel they should be avoided, DM makes a new type def out of it -anyway- so may as well put forth the human effort to just write the def.
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And in English?
This is literally just copy pasted from the normal repulse spell because I couldn't figure out how to change the stun durations without just repeating the same code used by repulse.
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below that line, you just add:
targeteffect.icon = stuff
targeteffect.icon_state = stuff
targeteffect.mouse_opacity = 0
etc
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literally just copypasted
Not code standards then
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I hope you checked that the facehuggers won't die when a queen uses that stronger tail spin near them |
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To be honewt aliens have been needing some love to push away from the whole focus on hunters its way too focused on those and nothing else. |
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still really dumb and pointless |
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The plan is still this: Merge this (it has all the xeno-designers supporting it lads cmon), then if xenos somehow turn into a fucking unstoppable genocide machine because of a few small buffs then the first thing I do is reduce hunter speed to 0 from -1 which removes their turbohitler status. |
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WJ said he only liked two of your changes and hes the king of xenos |
That is @WJohn's most recent comment, he needs to update his review, though. |
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I asked him in coderbus and he literally said near verbatim that he only liked 2 changes |
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So it's listen to WJ or let xenos be complete shit and not in any way fun to play or watch. I'd just not listen to him and merge this anyways because he doesn't know what he's talking about. |
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Xenos lost their pockets a while ago. They can hold a maximum of 2 while ventcrawling. It takes 2 hits to break face protection. It will still generally be much more efficient for the xeno to tackle you and strip your helmet. Tackle+Strip means 2 huggers = 2 infestations, like always. Huggerthrowing means 2 huggers = 1 broken helmet and no infestations. This just gives xenos a way to win a war of attrition, otherwise if your mask gets fucked up just go grab another welding/riot/bio/EVA/hardsuit helmet and get back to fighting. WJ's last comment was a net-approval and since then I made it even easier to prevent impregnation by tearing off your buddies facehugger. Baw I know you're desperate to stop this but putting words into other people's mouths isn't going to stop this train. Choo choo motherfucker xenos are gittin gud again. |
Dorsisdwarf
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Ready for Review/Merge
Merge Conflict
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Have you even watched alien(s)? Do you even have the slightest idea of what you're talking about? Facehuggers are loaded with an ultracorrosive acid, in the movie it eats through a dude's EVA helmet almost instantly and then its tail gets cut off it burns through 2-3 floors in the ship's hull. If anything having ANY helmet block it is unrealistic. |
Guys we should just remove aliens they're unrealistic |
| @@ -162,7 +162,6 @@ | |||
| item_state = "cardborg" | |||
| body_parts_covered = CHEST|GROIN | |||
| flags_inv = HIDEJUMPSUIT | |||
| dog_fashion = /datum/dog_fashion/back | |||
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Probably didn't want to remove these ? Something gone wrong with the merge probably.
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I dont even recall touching that file, what a meme.
They already do though. When xenos lose its usually because their nest got stomped early |
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Well it also helps with nest defense because someone with a helmet now has to actually kill the huggers instead of just sprinting around the room intentionally stepping on every hugger to get it to suicide into their helmet |
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Huggers dont attack people with helmets on though |
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I'm getting them to do it to me, this PR is so old I don't even remember if I changed that but the point is that helmets make running through a field of huggers irrelevent, so you can sprint into any nest and unless a hunter is there all you have to do is stay diagonal of the aliens and you win. |
Did you know that alien queen can shit out resin walls, making it completely impossible to stay diagonal in the hive? I saw a queen alone take down 4 spessmen raid party with nothing but melee and clever use of corners. Yes, it actually requires some skill, and that's why it's better than your "lol, i have 40 live huggers stacked at hive entrance, now get raped". I agree that the queen could use some speed buffs, but helmet-breaking huggers? Fuck no. |
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Xenomorphs are a side antag, they don't need to always win. I see them win on a pretty regular basis as is, as well as win as them on a regular basis. If you make them a game mode this can be reconsidered. |
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Is working on a buff to their spit anyway I think |
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@KorPhaeron Am I clear to take the buffs @WJohn likes from this PR and slap them on mine? |
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Is this your way of forcing me to make a Xeno game mode? Ugh. It's really getting tiresome having to appease everyone only to have Kor "Final Boss" Phaeron shut you down at the end. It took me ages to get helmet cracking just right. |
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Hint: This PR isn't bad because of Kor |
Oh shit check out this sweet overlay: http://imgur.com/TPMRsqB
(Actually took quite a few tries to get damage that looked decent on everything from riot helmets to ERT hardsuits)
🆑 Robustin
rscadd: Facehuggers now damage helmets when attacking; it takes two hits to destroy a helmet before they can attach.
tweak: Masks will no longer block facehuggers (previously 20% chance to block)
tweak: Crew have ~15 seconds to remove a facehugger before it infests someone, up from ~13 seconds.
tweak: Decreased facehugger gestation time to ~4 minutes, previously ~5 minutes.
tweak: Increased throw distance of facehuggers.
tweak: Decreased Xeno Queen movement delay.
tweak: Increased tail spin's stun time and damage for a longer cooldown.
tweak: Acid now melts things faster.
tweak: Tackle had 20% chance to disarm, but not stun. That 20% disarm is now a "slam" attack that will disarm and deal 45 stamina damage. Victims will be moderately slowed for 3-4 seconds before returning to full speed. 80% of the time you will still tackle like normal.
/:cl:
Been testing Xenos since the last PR and was still very dissatisfied with the way they played, it basically boiled down to:
Helmets gave you immunity to everything except neurotoxin and tackles
Single-shot ranged attacks that can't be aimed were insufficient to hold off the crew, only hunter had a realistic chance of tackling laser-wielding crew.
So basically it was extremely easy to just rush into a xeno nest with the nearest face-protection and sprint around like a bunch of tiding turbohitlers and trying to stop them was basically like trying to fight off a revolution with a single shot taser that only goes in a straight line and a telescopic baton.
Huggers had ceased to play a role in combat, and Queens with their massive sprite and "40% slower than a juggernaut" speed basically had become target practice. As I've observed many xeno rounds as an admin, I've found that "gross negligence by the crew" is pretty much a mandatory condition for xenos to grow larger than a group of 4. This should help make Xenos and existential threat again and not just a chance for the crew to try a live-fire exercise of all their science/medical/cargo toys.