Removes silicon's knowledge of non human languages #76305
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tgstation-server
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Balance
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we need this merged before the meeting ends |
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no |
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Foreigner players in shambles |
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why uncommon by the way |
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Uncommon is a human language and is only used by foreigner humans, thought it would be nice to keep it in so silicon can be a translator for them (going with asimov) |
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I like the pr but what ways are there to learn a language other than the super rare books and the expensive earpieces you can order |
learning languagescargo language key (understand only) translation onlytranslating circuit |
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Maybe the extra languages could be made a cyborg upgrade that needs to be researched and is somewhat late in the tech tree? |
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LIZARD BUFF LETS GOOO |
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If this gets us one step closer to being able to choose a language as bilingual i'll be happy |
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why WOULDNT NT give theirr silicons an expansive language library |
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why would they if they are asimov |
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With Asimov, clearly NT hasn't designed silicon with non-humans in mind, so why would they give them languages lol |
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Thinking about that, when crewsimov lawset occurs due to station traits borgs probably should have it. If there is such lawset, im not sure. |
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This should be tied to the human command config Or be its own config |
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Making it a config or allowing it for non asimov silicon is still not answering my first point on why it's good for the game |
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Feels weird for a Research Station's androids to not have a universal translator built in to facilitate communication with aliens though. |
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Actually i was thinking that it'd be cool if you keep your languages if borged. Would also allow roundstart AIs to get an extra language with bilingual |
downstreams are going to want to keep this, most probably, so it'd be best to make it a config option silicons serving as universal translators is pretty common as a trait in most media, and NT is multispecies, even if they're human focused-it'd make sense that they'd want a way to keep tabs on nonhuman crew speaking in their own languages at the bare minimum, it should be an upgrade or a research option |
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put an upgrade into the utility borg upgrade researrch that gives them all languages |
Human command / human supremacy is a config and optional but you've only made the human only language not optional for silicons? |
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shouldn't be config. downstreams can fix it trivially by overriding the type, human only is unrelated we'd still want species to be ableto talk among themselves |
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I got to say, that change is not very considerate to non-human borgs or even other law sets that could be changed roundstart for crew focused. What happens to them when their brain pops out and it's cleans-the-walls? How does that make sense that they "simply" forgot how to speak draconic? What about the non-humans that get borged by robotics? I guess, that doesn't make sense that they would know any other language either. |
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This is good |
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counterpoint: also this is going to screw with the lore of any manuel borgs who want to originally have been X species in their past life. since our roundstart borgs are MMIs, I'd personally recommend giving them just whatever languages the non-borg half of their character slot would have. as in, like, what languages they'd have if they spawned in as an assistant. would be kind of weird for borged lizards to just... forget draconic. |
There's a PR open to delete the keys, so I wouldn't bank on that. But even if there weren't, asking someone to pay 600 credits from their personal account (can't use cargo budget) for a language key... Well, that's asking a lot. Then, lastly, the keys are for understanding only - one way translation may work for receiving simple requests but isn't really going to work if sec wants to question someone or any situation that's more complex. |
That's only because the curator has a special thing. It doesn't seem to apply to normal languages, just tested it. |
Considering what I imagine is the point of the PR, If I wanted to plan a heist with someone I am not going to even entertain the idea that I can casually talk in a different language only we can understand in the corner of a bar and pretend that we aren't going to be immediately marked as suspicious by Sec because people can't understand us and thus someone reported us as suspicious, and now we're on their radar anyways because we couldn't be bothered to move somewhere private to talk about the heist in an uncommon language. Also, out of the listed ways to learn a language, none of them are actual options for a normal crew member unless Sci is giving Translator circuits out like candy. And half of them are just using someone else to play Translator for you anyways which is exactly why someone would have an AI/borg around during a conversation in the first place. |
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Let service borg keep it, gives AIs someone in their court in case they really need to translate. |
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Incredibly out-of-touch solution to a problem that isn't even there. Who has ever in their right mind planned anything that isn't a pure meme on main comms? All that will happen is that "oh, you speak in moffic. That's suspicious, get valided." |
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Not a fan of this PR but I don't think it will be the end of the world when it's merged. Might be interesting. Opens up the possibility for a Malf AI module that unlocks the languages again. |
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Malf has that... camera hearing ability right? You can add language translation to that |
So that the silicons can tell when the non-humans are planning to murder a human? Also if this is happening can we make it so Bilingual lets you pick the language, please? It rather defeats the purpose from a roleplay perspective (IE the reason I took the quirk in the first place) when my bilingual language ends up being like, Gibbering or Beachspeak or whatever, on my character that is neither mentally deficient nor An Avid Surfer. |
Lore and realism justifications are secondary to mechanics. And NT is also characterized as a company that could save money on borgs without language compression, but that's really beside the point. |
The question was literally asked from a lore perspective. |
Yeah and i gave you a plausible reason why, but my point is that there doesn't need to be a lore perspective here. A change like that can be retroactively justified and that'd be fine. |
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Its not a problem because no one bothers with the mechanic in the first place due to the ease of being easedropped by people who you wouldnt expect to have the language vs say PDA which is a lot more limited on who can eavesdrop. I dont think its a problem to want languages near-exclusive and I think everyone was too excited about the implementation of languages that different avenues had to have a way to interact with it instead of letting it be a cool communication tool. Service borgs should definitely be able to have a translation upgrade that shows on their examine, then again I feel like service borg gets everything under the sun that doesnt fit neatly into the other module slots. |
That is very on brand for service tbf |
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Y’all are forgetting that Asimov isn’t the only lawset that ais can have. Also science already has access to circuits which can just translate anything anyone says into common, it takes like 10 seconds to hook it up to comms with an intercom |
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Also when I do play ai people using the foreign quirk often ask for my help to translate over comms, and even then some people use languages to covertly communicate with the ai, removing that potential would suck |
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Can we at least let Bilingual let us pick our language if this happens? |
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Why are you using the justification of learning languages to remove languages from the only species that can't learn them in any way? I know you have a hateboner for silicons, but calm down. Also you can have a private conversation, well by not using common radio? |
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Based merge timing |
…ges (#6546) Original PR: tgstation/tgstation#76305 ----- ## About The Pull Request Silicon now only know Common, Uncommon (Humans with Foreigner quirk) and Robotic. I also made the indentation in languages consistent because it bugged me lol. ## Why It's Good For The Game 1. There are currently many ways of learning languages, which devalues the language system as a whole. There's no real reason to use a language when anyone potentially understands what you're saying anyways. 2. Players of these non-human Species should be able to use their language to have hidden discussions in the open (you know, what languages were meant for), and Silicons should be included in this, especially since Silicon are generally on Asimov where they do not care for non-human life, giving non-humans SOMETHING over Silicon would be nice. ## Changelog :cl: balance: Silicon now only know Common, Uncommon and Robotic languages. /:cl: --------- Co-authored-by: John Willard <53777086+JohnFulpWillard@users.noreply.github.com>
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Languages are already pretty obscure and rarely used, giving even less options for ways to engage with the mechanic feels dumb. |
## About The Pull Request #76305 removed the knowledge of every language from silicons, but this had a couple of oversights. This language set was not only used by cyborgs but also bots and vending machines. A couple of effects relied on them knowing all of those languages, specifically their emp_act and also the station trait which rerolled their languages. Now they actually _learn_ a random language and start speaking it instead. Also I fixed a related runtime which I noticed in testing where a bot would die as a result of being EMPed, delete itself, and then try and do a bunch more shit after it stopped existing. Annoying. Why was I looking at bot languages? Haha don't worry about it 😇 ## Why It's Good For The Game Restores function of a funny feature. ## Changelog :cl: fix: Station traits can once again allow vending machines and bots to speak a random language fix: EMPed bots and vending machines once again speak a random language /:cl:
About The Pull Request
Silicon now only know Common, Uncommon (Humans with Foreigner quirk) and Robotic.
I also made the indentation in languages consistent because it bugged me lol.
Why It's Good For The Game
Changelog
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balance: Silicon now only know Common, Uncommon and Robotic languages.
/:cl: