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Removes progression from midround and latejoin traitor, renames reputation to threat level #79020

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merged 3 commits into from Oct 16, 2023

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Watermelon914
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@Watermelon914 Watermelon914 commented Oct 15, 2023

About The Pull Request

Reputation has been renamed to 'Threat Level' to more accurately represent what it means.
Midround and latejoin traitors no longer have access to secondary objectives, the ones which give TC and objectives.

Why It's Good For The Game

Midround antagonists, like traitor, shouldn't really have the progression system that is meant for roundstart. Final objectives in particular are only suited for traitors who have worked towards it from the start.
Reputation wasn't really a good name for the player-facing progression system of traitors as you'd passively gain progression which didn't make since if it was supposed to be your reputation.

Changelog

🆑
balance: Removed secondary objectives from midround and latejoin traitors.
grammar: Renamed reputation to threat level.
/:cl:

@tgstation-server tgstation-server added Balance Changes to functionality that modifies how effective certain methods are at powergaming Removal This was too fun, too fun! I'm turning this feature around UI We make the game less playable, but with round edges labels Oct 15, 2023
@F-e-r-n
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F-e-r-n commented Oct 15, 2023

I feel like midround traitor might benefit more from just not being able to get a final objective? The extra TC is still very useful, and as long as they have the proper amount of reputation for that point in time it should be fine. Also imo "threat level" is kind of worse than reputation? Since if you think about it your objectives are meant to build your standing with the syndicate, so I'm kinda iffy on this one.

However, if you were to make midround traitor worth less than roundstart, it might be okay, but I think this is just complicating the role of traitor more than is necessary. It can also make it so that people who latejoin right after the start of the round and get tot can just get straight into murderboning which is what progtot was made to avoid.

@SomeoneYouProbablyKnow
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Don't have the data but... do latejoins/midrounf traitors ever complete their final objective? Really feels like the round has to go unreasonably long for that to happen (or the stars have to align) and at that point i'd be nice for a big thing like that to happen.

"Reputation" "threat level". It's kinda inconsequential.

@Watermelon914
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I feel like midround traitor might benefit more from just not being able to get a final objective? The extra TC is still very useful, and as long as they have the proper amount of reputation for that point in time it should be fine. Also imo "threat level" is kind of worse than reputation? Since if you think about it your objectives are meant to build your standing with the syndicate, so I'm kinda iffy on this one.

However, if you were to make midround traitor worth less than roundstart, it might be okay, but I think this is just complicating the role of traitor more than is necessary. It can also make it so that people who latejoin right after the start of the round and get tot can just get straight into murderboning which is what progtot was made to avoid.

  1. Midround antags should have simple progression elements rather than the full-scale progression elements of traitor and heretic because the complexity is hard to engage with if you get into it later rather than earlier
  2. Reputation doesn't actually make any sense due to how it is rewarded since you gain it passively. If you have a better name for it, feel free to make a PR but it's hard to come up with a good name that represents the progression element of a traitor, because they also gain it passively and can end up with 1400 rep despite not having done anything.
  3. Midround traitors started with less rep roundstart, this actually made it much more annoying to play. Midround roles should really just have a simplistic gameplay loop as earlier stated. Also, this PR was made due to a consequence on manuel where any midround tot would be able to end the round if it had gone on long enough despite not doing much. This makes doing that much harder to do since you'd need to have been a traitor at the start of the round.
  4. The timelock on equipment hasn't been removed, players who latejoin as tot will still be under the same timelocking system

@Jacquerel
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Jacquerel commented Oct 17, 2023

If there's 10 minutes until the shuttle and you still have items you can't buy then you're in a round ending at 20 minutes, this isn't a common occurence and having secondary objectives wouldn't help you at that stage.

There's also plenty of items with no timelock which allow you to "make an impact on the round", it's a majority of the catalogue.

Jolly-66 pushed a commit to TaleStation/TaleStation that referenced this pull request Oct 18, 2023
…traitor, renames reputation to threat level (#8199)

Original PR: tgstation/tgstation#79020
-----

## About The Pull Request
Reputation has been renamed to 'Threat Level' to more accurately
represent what it means.
Midround and latejoin traitors no longer have access to secondary
objectives, the ones which give TC and objectives.

## Why It's Good For The Game
Midround antagonists, like traitor, shouldn't really have the
progression system that is meant for roundstart. Final objectives in
particular are only suited for traitors who have worked towards it from
the start.
Reputation wasn't really a good name for the player-facing progression
system of traitors as you'd passively gain progression which didn't make
since if it was supposed to be your reputation.

## Changelog
:cl:
balance: Removed secondary objectives from midround and latejoin
traitors.
grammar: Renamed reputation to threat level.
/:cl:

---------

Co-authored-by: Watermelon914 <37270891+Watermelon914@users.noreply.github.com>
Co-authored-by: Watermelon914 <3052169-Watermelon914@users.noreply.gitlab.com>
Gboster-0 pushed a commit to Gboster-0/Monkestation2.0 that referenced this pull request Oct 28, 2023
…ation to threat level (tgstation#79020)

Reputation has been renamed to 'Threat Level' to more accurately
represent what it means.
Midround and latejoin traitors no longer have access to secondary
objectives, the ones which give TC and objectives.

Midround antagonists, like traitor, shouldn't really have the
progression system that is meant for roundstart. Final objectives in
particular are only suited for traitors who have worked towards it from
the start.
Reputation wasn't really a good name for the player-facing progression
system of traitors as you'd passively gain progression which didn't make
since if it was supposed to be your reputation.

:cl:
balance: Removed secondary objectives from midround and latejoin
traitors.
grammar: Renamed reputation to threat level.
/:cl:

---------

Co-authored-by: Watermelon914 <3052169-Watermelon914@users.noreply.gitlab.com>
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5 participants