Blood brothers is now a single person conversion antagonist #79971
Conversation
tgstation-server
added
Feature
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i think this is bad because people will just always flash their head of staff to get sec and brig access and meta protections |
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i originally blocked head of staff but intentionally left them back in after a brief ask in coding general. i could easily be convinced through playtesting to put it back in its one line |
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Ive been wanting this for a long time, blood brothers that can pick their friends would be super fun. Maybe just make it so the chance of getting another flash is reduced to 0 when you make a head of staff your bb? Its not a big difference but its something. |
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I don't like how this supports meta thinking. Seems like people will always pick their buddy or the strongest guy on the server. |
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the intent is that by letting people self select they will not only have more enjoyable rounds together but also the consistency of blood brothers' impact on the round will be stronger, which cannot be said for something like traitor or especially current blood brothers |
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I for one absolutely love this idea. No longer will I be left up to rng on whether I get a good partner or a complete npc |
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my bad |
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:( |
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I think the point of BB should be unlikely allies. This is an RP game and you should put aside any differences when you are antags to have fun and complete your objectives. If someone's mad they got a new player or someone they don't like as a BB politely show them the door |
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who said anything about people being mad |
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Main concern of me beside what was already said about metathinking, is that any flashing done by evil people will be immediately thought to be revolution by Security. And fake revolution leads to a lot of shit. Also, maybe make it so mindshielded cannot be converted? |
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mindshields already cant be converted |
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also that problem will change as time goes on and people adapt. it could even make for interesting cases in the vice-versa--real revolution that security members underplay |
If everyone is mad, angry and dissapointed you can't say it's their problem for not enjoying the mechanic, then it's the mechanic's fault. |
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Not a fan of the potential problems that choosing your antag partner carries but this will without a doubt make blood brother way more fun. |
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I felt like half the fun of blood brother is the roll of the die of you and your blood brother buddy to try and complete objectives. This can range from being stupidly easy, to an assistant and a clown needing to steal something incredibly valuable. I feel like a lot of people would default to converting the best person to try and help complete the objective instead (like a head of staff or a robust player) which is something you already pointed out. I can also see a lot of people converting someone who it turns out doesn't want to be a blood brother and it just leading to frustration. Cult and Revs are okay in regards to unwilling converts because it's a mass conversion gamemode so worst case scenario you can just keep your head down and slightly help if you get converted, this isn't so much the case with this. It's a pretty good idea but I wouldn't want it to replace classic blood brother. |
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I feel like a lot of BB right now is how your partner can be anyone, from any job, which adds a lot of randomness to it. I'm worried that people will metagame the best BB to flash based on job and shit. Not to mention that this already makes the chance for characters with disabilities to even get the antag to be pratically halved |
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It would be nice to see some benefits to converting lower ranking crew members instead of just the RD every round who is the objectively best head to convert. Honestly the metapals are worth it for the positive impact on regular BBs. Half the time metapals just antag check each other and team up anyway. |
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BBs are a great way to get to know people you haven't interacted with before. This seems like it'll just reinforce the metaclique tendencies Manuel already struggles with |
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I love this idea. However, I am sad that I wont be able to make new friends from the randomly given partner. Would it be possible in anyway for a feature to shatter the flash for a random partner? That way we get the best of both worlds. Something I was wondering is what happens if you flash somebody with BB's turned off? Or another antag? It might be hilarious to flash somebody and then learn they are a cultist |
same as cult etc. it converts
seems weird to include as a first class feature. why not flash the first person you see or something? |
I am. Your PR's are stinky, nerd >:c Edit: I went over like 3 different punchlines, chose the worst one initially, and then forgot to actually give my opinion; I like this idea, but share the opinion that it should maybe be a pick-from-a-list thing, if we want to keep the name. Blood Brothers are like, a sworn oath, and 'i mind controlled you into helping me' isn't that, unless we wanna swap the Flash for something and say that it's something that activates the sleeper agent. But I think the idea's just generally good. People talk about "well if they get mad that they got a new player they can kick rocks" but sometimes you get the Notorious Shitter and you know that you're probably just solo anyway, and still going to lose because they'll get themselves killed by Security. I don't mind new players, but the moment you get some dude named Mite Shart you may as well just accept you've not only lost, but are probably going to get fucked on by Security even if you ignore your antag and just do your job. |
Personally i liked "3 AM Denny's parking lot" |
Feels like itr'd be shittier to remove you entirely from the round when the conversion method is so simple (and has to be) |
Yeah but it specifically says "fight you on github" so I figured that while the idea of "someone hypothetically stupid enough to escalate a github argument to a fistfight/stabbing in a denny's parking lot isn't that intelligent" was hilarious, I didn't want to have to explain the joke. |
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Why is it always 3 AM? The parking lot i get but damn you gotta be psychotic to do it at 3 AM. |
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Honestly kinda liking the idea of this? Plus this fixes the issue of both completely new players and shitters wasting the BB roll by charging security without a plan then disconnecting the instant they get smacked in the face with a baton. |
Then don't make it do that? I dunno gurl you're in charge of how it functions, you don't need to make it offer your body up or whatever. Just make it not work in some way if the other person doesn't have BB selected. Perhaps instead of a flash you could give the starter Brother a "Blood Bond" ability that does the same thing but just silently fails if the target is a restricted role or doesn't have BB on. Then it's still a flavor win and it doesn't bypass preferences. Plus if it's a generic "You don't feel a brotherly connection to this person!" You could restrict it from converting antags without being a tell, if you wanted to do that for balance reasons. |
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Can blood brothers convert other antagonists like wizard or space ninja? |
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yes just like revs and cult |
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Pretty cool. Personally I'd enjoy it a lot but I feel a bit bad for the players who will be missing out on antag because they're not part of a metagroup/aren't very good (although that's true for cult and revs too, less so because conversions are cheap and unlimited). Other thing is it would be cooler if the conversion mechanic was something unique as opposed to just a flash. Something a bit more on-par with the theme like you get their blood or something IDK. |
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it has to be a one click conversion or else it sucks. tattle suggested epi pens which i like but i want to observe my hypothesis on how this affects flash revs callouts for a while first |
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At least the bros are back <3 |
…n antagonist (#8841) Original PR: tgstation/tgstation#79971 ----- ## About The Pull Request Instead of choosing 2-3 brothers, *one* person will be selected and given a flash which can convert one other person over. In accordance to the existing 10% chance for 3 members, there is a 10% chance that the first person converted will receive a flash of their own. Expectation is people will flash a friend or a robust guy or whatever. My intent is primarily to see if this kind of blood brothers is more enjoyable to play with/against, and if their inclusion in a round increases the general chaos of it. My theory is that since most likely blood brothers will be people who know each other, that it can become more consistently interesting to the rest of the crew. That or they just murderbone together idk Fikou and head admins said they wanted this to replace rather than add which I agree with. ## Why It's Good For The Game Keeps the sandboxy aspect of blood brothers (no uplink) while likely making it more enjoyable to play. Conversion is equally as simple as revs for the user, and is just as intuitive to the one being converted since there are no new mechanics thrown in your face. Blood brothers is currently disabled everywhere on the main servers except for MRP. I think this form will be more appealing to all rulesets. If left enabled, Dynamic now has more antagonists to make rounds diverse with and I want that ## Changelog :cl: add: Instead of teaming up random people together, blood brothers will now start out with one player and let them convert a single other person over to blood brother using a flash. /:cl: --------- Co-authored-by: Mothblocks <35135081+Mothblocks@users.noreply.github.com>
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from discord, for posterity... changes i wouldnt mind seeing afterwards:
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This NEEDS to tell you who your BB is on your antag panel. I got given an SSD BB body last night and had no fucking clue why my flash wasn't working. EDIT: I've also seen people forget who their brother is even with this info available and both being roundstart, which is another point in favor of making it obvious. |
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fair enough |
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hey, i know this is merged, added, all that, but what if a blood brother flashes another antag? what if john blood flashes chang ling, and now its fucking unstoppable, even worse if one was a head of staff, and the worst if one was a head of staff/both were, and they got a third flash, getting another guy who was a traitor?? or a head of staff?? please tell me john blood cant turn chang ling the RD into a ling blood bro, please |
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I'm pretty sure changelings are conversion immune? If not, nice, you got a cool bro and they were already an antag so like, it's not like you've really made it That much more threatening. Seems like a way to have some fun stories and roleplay. |
…n#79971) ## About The Pull Request Instead of choosing 2-3 brothers, *one* person will be selected and given a flash which can convert one other person over. In accordance to the existing 10% chance for 3 members, there is a 10% chance that the first person converted will receive a flash of their own. Expectation is people will flash a friend or a robust guy or whatever. My intent is primarily to see if this kind of blood brothers is more enjoyable to play with/against, and if their inclusion in a round increases the general chaos of it. My theory is that since most likely blood brothers will be people who know each other, that it can become more consistently interesting to the rest of the crew. That or they just murderbone together idk Fikou and head admins said they wanted this to replace rather than add which I agree with. ## Why It's Good For The Game Keeps the sandboxy aspect of blood brothers (no uplink) while likely making it more enjoyable to play. Conversion is equally as simple as revs for the user, and is just as intuitive to the one being converted since there are no new mechanics thrown in your face. Blood brothers is currently disabled everywhere on the main servers except for MRP. I think this form will be more appealing to all rulesets. If left enabled, Dynamic now has more antagonists to make rounds diverse with and I want that ## Changelog :cl: add: Instead of teaming up random people together, blood brothers will now start out with one player and let them convert a single other person over to blood brother using a flash. /:cl:
About The Pull Request
Instead of choosing 2-3 brothers, one person will be selected and given a flash which can convert one other person over. In accordance to the existing 10% chance for 3 members, there is a 10% chance that the first person converted will receive a flash of their own.
Expectation is people will flash a friend or a robust guy or whatever. My intent is primarily to see if this kind of blood brothers is more enjoyable to play with/against, and if their inclusion in a round increases the general chaos of it. My theory is that since most likely blood brothers will be people who know each other, that it can become more consistently interesting to the rest of the crew. That or they just murderbone together idk
Fikou and head admins said they wanted this to replace rather than add which I agree with.
Why It's Good For The Game
Keeps the sandboxy aspect of blood brothers (no uplink) while likely making it more enjoyable to play. Conversion is equally as simple as revs for the user, and is just as intuitive to the one being converted since there are no new mechanics thrown in your face.
Blood brothers is currently disabled everywhere on the main servers except for MRP. I think this form will be more appealing to all rulesets. If left enabled, Dynamic now has more antagonists to make rounds diverse with and I want that
Changelog
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add: Instead of teaming up random people together, blood brothers will now start out with one player and let them convert a single other person over to blood brother using a flash.
/:cl: