changelog--friends-47.md

Jerod Santo: Hello, and welcome back to pound #define, our 100% original, and in no way copied from Balderdash game show, where you're rewarded for lying like a skilled politician. My name is Jerod Santo, and we have some great competitors today... And we have Nick Nisi.

Nick Nisi: Ahoy-hoy.

Jerod Santo: Hey, Nick. Welcome to #define.

Nick Nisi: Happy to be here.

Jerod Santo: Listeners of the Changelog may remember Nick's voice as a regular panelist on JS Party, your weekly celebration of JavaScript and the web.

Nick Nisi: And TypeScript.

Jerod Santo: No, no, no, no... Don't start the lying until the definitions fly. We're also joined by a listener and sometimes guest - I guess recurring guest now - Thomas Eckert. Welcome, Thomas.

Thomas Eckert: Hello. Happy to be here. Excited to join these legends. Legends of the Changelog.

Jerod Santo: We do have some Changelog legends here, waiting in the wings... Where are they? No, here they are! It's Mat Ryer. What's up, Mat?

Mat Ryer: Hello, everybody. It's nice to be here.

Jerod Santo: How do you like to be described as a legend?

Mat Ryer: It's alright, actually... It's just the first time it's happened.

Jerod Santo: You'll take it?

Mat Ryer: Just let it sink in. Let me think. Yeah, it feels pretty good. Yeah. It's very nice.

Adam Stacoviak: You'll take it. Alright. Speaking of the legend, it's my partner in crime, Adam Stacoviak. What's up, dude?

Adam Stacoviak: What's up? I'm here. I'm back.

Jerod Santo: I feel like you're well positioned, because we played this game a few times... This is our third iteration of #define. However, we have no returning guests. We got rid of Taylor Troesh. He's too good. Lars, way too serious. Amal... Too much.

Adam Stacoviak: Too much. [laughs]

Jerod Santo: And we've got these guys. So I think you have an upper hand, because you have experience and they do not.

Adam Stacoviak: If I don't win, there's something wrong. Okay?

Mat Ryer: With you.

Adam Stacoviak: With me, yeah.

Jerod Santo: Correct.

Adam Stacoviak: That was implied, with me. But yes, thank you for being specific.

Nick Nisi: Adam, I just noticed the lava lamp behind you.

Adam Stacoviak: Oh, yeah.

Nick Nisi: I know you're into homeland. Is that -- home lab, not homeland. Is that [unintelligible 00:04:07.18] key generator?

Adam Stacoviak: It's my -- yeah, what do you call those things...?

Jerod Santo: Cloudflare Worker? [laughs]

Adam Stacoviak: No, they have a -- Nick is referring to this wall they have in the Cloudflare office, and they use it, I believe -- what do they use it for?

Mat Ryer: To generate random numbers.

Adam Stacoviak: A random generator kind of thing? Like a password generator?

Jerod Santo: Oh, really?

Mat Ryer: Yeah.

Adam Stacoviak: Yeah, because it's never the same. That'd be cool if I did, but I don't. So... I'm sorry, Nick. It's just for looks.

Nick Nisi: Ideas.

Mat Ryer: It technically can be the same, right? It's just chance, but... It's probably not going to be the same, but it could just be exactly the same all day, and then all it's kicking out is two. And you're like "Come on, wall... We need more different random numbers, not just two...!" And you get angry with it. But then you're relaxed by just watching it, because it's lava lamps, so it chills you out.

Jerod Santo: And then it reminds you it's a pseudo random number generator. They're just pseudo random. So you get what you pay for, I guess.

Mat Ryer: No, but that one is real random, I think.

Adam Stacoviak: It could never be the same again.

Mat Ryer: It can be. It's random.

Adam Stacoviak: Maybe in a million years. Could it be the same in a million years?

Mat Ryer: It could be the same in one second, technically... It's just unlikely.

Adam Stacoviak: Yeah, that's true.

Jerod Santo: Well, this conversation will never be the same again, either... So let's get to the game. Here's how it works. This is the game of fake definitions. You all are tasked with basically lying to each other, pretending...

Adam Stacoviak: I like it.

Jerod Santo: ...pseudo random definition generators, that you know the definition to these obscure, STEM jargon. I have 10 rounds of play. I will say the word, send it to you all, spell it out loud for our listener, and you will then write a definition for the word. I also have, of course, the correct definition... I will mix them together, read them out, and you will try to guess which is the correct definition.

[05:59] If you know the definition to start, and you submit to me the correct definition, you automatically get three points, which is the most points you can score for a single action... And you sit that round out. So you know, go have a drink of coffee, or something. If you don't get it right right away, I will gather them and read them during the reading time. If you guess the right one then, you get two points. And if you trick somebody else to guess your definition, you get one point. So for each person who selects yours, you get a point. And we get to 15 points first wins, or 10 rounds. That's how it goes. I'm sure that was convoluted as an explanation, because I was confusing myself as I went... But as the game starts, it will become immediately obvious how this works. So let's just get into it, and start with round one.

So the word for round one: cryptarythm. I will submit that to the chat... Please send me your fake definitions now. Okay, Nick has already submitted. So it's not based on speed, Nick, but I do appreciate that. I have Mat's definition... Adam is historically the slowest submitter...

Thomas Eckert: He's a deep thinker.

Jerod Santo: I have Thomas's... So soon as Adam is done, we will be ready.

Adam Stacoviak: I'm just trying to figure out how to spell rhythm.

Thomas Eckert: It's in the thing.

Adam Stacoviak: No, no. I mean the word rhythm.

Thomas Eckert: That's too tough.

Adam Stacoviak: It is a tough word to spell. I always get confused, and I always have to google it.

Jerod Santo: Do not google. There's no googling.

Thomas Eckert: R-H-Y-T-H-M.

Adam Stacoviak: Alright, I'm gonna send you an incorrect version of rhythm, basically.

Jerod Santo: You can't google, you can't DuckDuckGo, you cannot Ask Jeeves... Nor can you ask any sort of GPTs.

Mat Ryer: But you can just type in the word in Slack, and see if it's got an underline on it.

Jerod Santo: True.

Mat Ryer: That's one way to find out.

Jerod Santo: I will allow spellcheck. Good point, Mat.

Nick Nisi: But you can hack that maybe through like Grammarly, or something that's using an LLM to --

Mat Ryer: [unintelligible 00:08:06.14]

Jerod Santo: I guess if you hack #define by using Grammarly, then I'll just submit to you unless you win the game.

Thomas Eckert: Yeah...

Mat Ryer: Also, it's interesting you say 'pound', because we don't say pound for that symbol. You're talking about the hash symbol.

Jerod Santo: I'm not. I'm talking about the pound sign.

Mat Ryer: Right. Which -- it's an octothorp, right? It's two lines... I think that's its technical name, is an octothorpe.

Thomas Eckert: Octothorpe Define, yeah.

Jerod Santo: Do you guys call it that because it looks like hashbrowns?

Mat Ryer: We don't really havehash browns though; they're from the US...

Jerod Santo: Well, what's wrong with you?

Thomas Eckert: They have beans. They just have beans and they have toast. That's it.

Jerod Santo: Just beans and toast?

Mat Ryer: Yeah, yeah.

Jerod Santo: Well, you should try hashbrowns are really good. [laughter]

Mat Ryer: Did you try beans on toast when you were in London, Nick?

Nick Nisi: I sure didn't. They gave it to me, and I set that aside.

Thomas Eckert: They gave it to you and you didn't eat?

Mat Ryer: You gave it back... You're like "No, thank you..."

Jerod Santo: Some of the best food I had in London was at the local McDonald's.

Mat Ryer: That's so American...

Nick Nisi: It was at the airport lounge...

Mat Ryer: No, that's the place to try it, if you're gonna go... If you're gonna go for it. You want to have it done properly. You want to get yourself to terminal three. Nick, when you say "Someone gave it to me", surely in context of a restaurant or something... Like, they didn't just give it to you in the airport.

Jerod Santo: They're just discarding it. They figured "Here, you have it."

Nick Nisi: Yeah... Going through security, they just hand it to you...

Mat Ryer: Yeah. It's just someone else's beans on toast that they weren't allowed through. Actually, that's not a bad idea.

Thomas Eckert: Well, the thing is, there's only one beans on toast in the entire country... But no one actually likes it, but you've got to pretend like you like it, so you kind of just keep passing it on... And it's been hot-potatoing around between people for decades.

Adam Stacoviak: That's how sourdough started.

Mat Ryer: Yeah, it's the same principle. I love that it's one beans on toast. Like, the beans on toast is a singular. And there's one of them. I love that.

Jerod Santo: [09:51] Yeah. Well, the beans are plural, but the toast is singular. Yes. Alright, I now have all definitions... A quick disclaimer, I do my darndest to read these as straight as possible... In fact, I close my video so I can't see your faces, and I just read, as if I'm the only one in the room. Having said that, it's still really hard, because some of these get to be a little bit zany... Thankfully, Taylor Troesh is not here, because he's trolling pretty much every round. And so... Maybe Mat will troll, I don't know. But there's my disclaimer. If I laugh, it's not because it's not the right definition. It's because I think something's funny.

Mat Ryer: Yeah. But you also find quite weird things funny. I listened to an episode of this last time and you were in hysterics for 10 minutes... And then when you read it out, it was just a sentence.

Jerod Santo: The first episode I almost broke it. Yeah. But I did a much better job in the second episode. So if you want to go back and listen, skip around one of episode one... In which I darn near break the show. Okay, let's see if I break the show this time.

Cryptarythm is an algorithm for generating cryptographic signatures. Or the subtle vibrations that occur in underground burial sites due to the crypt settling. Or the rhythm, also known as cryptorhythmic sequencing of adding and subtracting numbers in cryptographic algorithms. Or a puzzle where you are given an arithmetical expression where the digits have been replaced by letters. Or finally, a drumbeat used as a password, usually tapped out on a keypad or keyboard.

There you have it, five definitions for cryptarythm. One of those is the correct definition. Nick, you're up first. Which one do you think it is?

Nick Nisi: How do I answer?

Jerod Santo: You can answer by the number, you can answer by the one saying generally this, and I will confirm with you. You can just kind of talk about it. It's fine, we'll figure it out. Okay.

Nick Nisi: I'm gonna say the one -- the puzzle, where you're...

Jerod Santo: A puzzle where you're given arithmetical expressions, where the digits have been replaced by letters?

Nick Nisi: Yes.

Jerod Santo: Alright. That's number four. I gave that to Nick, and we go to Thomas.

Thomas Eckert: Yeah, so I'll think about these... You've got to algorithm-like ones. Those are both interesting, attractive... I'm also drawn to the puzzle one. I think it's interesting, this idea -- I looked at cryptarythm and I thought crypto, right? You know, cryptography. But now that I read this one about [unintelligible 00:12:22.20]

Adam Stacoviak: Vibrations, yes.

Thomas Eckert: Vibrations. That makes a lot of sense. Like, maybe I'm actually -- you know how a helicopter is actually heli copter...

Jerod Santo: Oh, school us.

Thomas Eckert: ...where you actually [unintelligible 00:12:35.21] word is different... You don't know that?

Jerod Santo: No. Tell me more.

Thomas Eckert: Oh. We say helicopter, right?

Jerod Santo: Correct.

Thomas Eckert: Yeah.

Jerod Santo: Matt, do you say that?

Mat Ryer: I do. All the time. I'm always saying it.

Thomas Eckert: No, no, no. They say whirly birds...

Jerod Santo: Oh, you guys have whirly birds.

Adam Stacoviak: Whirly birds...

Mat Ryer: Yeah, that's the proper one.

Thomas Eckert: Whirly birds, and... Yeah, no. That's how they imported the beans.

Jerod Santo: Through a whirly bird, of course.

Thomas Eckert: We say it like helicopter, but the actual origin of the word would split. So pter is the wing... It's Greek. It's the same thing where you get like pterodactyl.

Jerod Santo: It's all Greek to me.

Thomas Eckert: I know. So you wouldn't say --

Jerod Santo: So what's helicop mean?

Thomas Eckert: Helico-pter. If you were to split where the words --

Adam Stacoviak: Is he spitting on me?

Jerod Santo: I feel like he's just spitting on us.

Thomas Eckert: I'm spitting knowledge.

Jerod Santo: Okay...

Thomas Eckert: You know? But maybe it's like that, where you need to split the word in a different place. You know, crypt.

Jerod Santo: You're going for the one that says "Vibrations occur in an underground burial sites due to the crypt settling."

Thomas Eckert: Yeah, but I'm still drawn to the puzzle one. I think I'll go with the puzzle one...

Jerod Santo: Alright. He's piling on...

Thomas Eckert: Piling on.

Jerod Santo: Now, let me remind you of the spread. The spread is wherein you don't all pick the same answer, because if nobody gets the correct answer, I, your humble moderator, sometimes not so humble moderator, will score three points. And if I reach 15 before anybody else, you'll never hear the end of it. Okay, so he's gonna pile on with Nick on the puzzle. Puzzling... Adam, what do you think?

Adam Stacoviak: Can I get a readback, please?

Jerod Santo: [14:11] Of which ones?

Adam Stacoviak: All of them. [laughter]

Jerod Santo: I will give you a quick summary of each, okay?

Adam Stacoviak: Please, and thank you.

Jerod Santo: Number one was the algorithm for generating cryptographic signatures. Number two was the subtle vibrations that Thomas was talking about.

Adam Stacoviak: Okay, yes.

Jerod Santo: Underground burial sites. Number three was the rhythm of adding and subtracting numbers in cryptographic algorithms. Number four was the puzzle. And number five was the drumbeat used as a password.

Adam Stacoviak: The last two - well, middle and last two are kind of STEM-related... So I've gotta go in the STEM. Plus the pile-on is making me feel like maybe I'm not smart here, and they're smart, so I'm gonna just do what sheep do and follow, so I'm gonna be a sheep today. But I don't know, that last one... Read it again, please. Let's see how -- can you hear me the exact version of it, so I can hear...?

Jerod Santo: Number five - a drumbeat used as a password, usually tapped out on a keypad or keyboard.

Thomas Eckert: Think about that, like [unintelligible 00:15:08.05]

Adam Stacoviak: Oh, yeah...

Thomas Eckert: That's kind of a password.

Mat Ryer: On each key.

Jerod Santo: It's maybe a cryptarythm.

Thomas Eckert: Yeah, maybe it predates...

Adam Stacoviak: It's a rhythm that's crypt.

Jerod Santo: Right.

Nick Nisi: It's the rhythm of you getting scammed...

Adam Stacoviak: Well, thanks, Nick.

Jerod Santo: Oh, man...

Adam Stacoviak: You're putting it out there. Okay, puzzle. I'm piling on, Jerod.

Jerod Santo: You're piling on puzzle.

Adam Stacoviak: It's very STEM. It's very STEM.

Jerod Santo: This is concerning... Okay. I'm winding up a win here, perhaps, or a loss. We'll see. Mat, you are the last to choose. So far, three puzzlers. What are you thinking?

Mat Ryer: I'm still trying to get over that helicopter news. That bombshell has just really shaken me, to be honest... [laughter] I can't believe you're supposed to say it like that...

Thomas Eckert: You don't need to worry about that.

Jerod Santo: That was a psychological operation.

Thomas Eckert: You're not supposed to say it like that.

Adam Stacoviak: Do you break it down to say Whirlybi-rd?

Thomas Eckert: Whirdly-bird?

Mat Ryer: Oh yeah, that's it.

Adam Stacoviak: And the Greek?

Mat Ryer: Yeah, the Greek, I don't know... I was gonna learn Greek, but it's got too much maths in it. I'm not very good at maths. I shouldn't have to calculate pi halfway through a word... You know what I mean? We won't be playing that.

Thomas Eckert: [unintelligible 00:16:10.27]

Mat Ryer: The spelling of cryptarythm I think tells us it's not the rhythm one. And also, when I heard the real definition of this, I remembered that I did know this. So I was a little bit disappointed with myself. But I'm pretty confident that it is the puzzle. So I'm gonna pile on, baby...! Pile on!

Jerod Santo: The pile!

Mat Ryer: Is there a theme tune for if everyone piles on?

Adam Stacoviak: We need a pile-on theme.

Jerod Santo: Can you write one real quick?

Mat Ryer: Yeah...

Jerod Santo: Alright. Pile-on theme tune.

[16:43]

Where has our individuality gone...? We're all saying the same thing... It's a pile-on... It's a pile-on...!

Jerod Santo: Lovely.

Adam Stacoviak: It's a pile-on. And in post, as we speak, Breakmaster Cylinder is remixing that. In the moment. So there's gonna be some beeps and boops and some blops.

Jerod Santo: It'll come out sounding better, probably. A little better.

Adam Stacoviak: Yeah, he's gonna autotune that thing, so it'll be good.

Mat Ryer: I already had autotune on, in my voice.

Adam Stacoviak: He's gonna meta-tune it.

Jerod Santo: Oh, did you? You tuned it yourself as you went.

Mat Ryer: By the way, Adam, I had a thought earlier... You wanted Jerod to repeat all the answers. You can just use the back 10 seconds on your phone to go back 10 seconds and listen to that bit again.

Adam Stacoviak: Yeah. I was trying that, but it didn't work.

Jerod Santo: The hard part's catching up, you know?

Thomas Eckert: You need the new Windows PC, where it records your entire life, so you can just go back.

Adam Stacoviak: Oh, yeah. Recall. Was it Recall?

Thomas Eckert: Recall.

Adam Stacoviak: Yeah, Recall.

Thomas Eckert: Well, I don't know if there's gonna be a recall on that...

Adam Stacoviak: There might be a recall on Recall...

Jerod Santo: [17:58] Total recall. [laughter] Even better. Alright, how do we land this helicopter? We say the correct answer was... The puzzle! You all got it!

Adam Stacoviak: Sweet!

Mat Ryer: Pile-on vindicated...!

Jerod Santo: So two points for Mat, two points for Adam, two points for Thomas, two points for Nick, zero for me... But that's okay.

Adam Stacoviak: It's a tie.

Jerod Santo: And after round one, it is a four-way tie for first place. Also, circumstantially, last place. So don't forget that. You're all tied for last. We move now to round two, where our word is graviton. The word for round two is graviton. I have Thomas's definition...

Mat Ryer: How do we know it's not gravy-ton? Like, loads of gravy.

Jerod Santo: Do you guys have gravy over there?

Mat Ryer: Yeah, but... Is it different? It's probably different, ain't it?

Thomas Eckert: It's just the juice around the beans... So you know how beans come in a liquid? They just drain that off. That's what they call gravy.

Mat Ryer: I don't even really eat beans on toast very often, Thomas... I usually just have toast on the beans. That's my favorite.

Thomas Eckert: Toast under beans. That's a really good idea.

Mat Ryer: It's lovely.

Thomas Eckert: It sits different on the palate. And that's a little bit more -- I mean, you see, that goes back into questions of class in England, as to who had toast under beans and who had beans on the toast.

Mat Ryer: That's it. Yeah.

Jerod Santo: Which class are you in, Mat?

Mat Ryer: You know Downton Abbey? You know where all the servants live, downstairs?

Jerod Santo: Yeah.

Mat Ryer: Yeah, I'd be working for them.

Jerod Santo: Oh, you'd be working for the servants.

Mat Ryer: Yeah, in the UK, where I sit.

Jerod Santo: You're the scum the scrape off the scum.

Mat Ryer: Yeah, exactly. Scum of the scum. It's like crème de la crème, but the opposite. But I'm proud of it. Working class background, and all that, you know...

Jerod Santo: And you're a legend around these parts... So what does that make us, you know?

Mat Ryer: [laughs] I wouldn't like to hazard a guess...

Adam Stacoviak: Just people.

Mat Ryer: No, I like you lot. I'll just caveat it with - if any scandals break with these people, I'd like to distance myself now. But assuming that doesn't happen...

Adam Stacoviak: I have an ongoing scandal hidden very much in... Is it a scandal if its hidden?

Jerod Santo: No. Well...

Adam Stacoviak: It's actually a microscandal. It's between like three or four people... One of them has a newspaper that just distributes it to like three people, and that's it. And it's in there, headlined on the front page.

Mat Ryer: Oh, wow.

Adam Stacoviak: So two people know what I've done. Allegedly.

Mat Ryer: What area is it in? Is it like a crime?

Adam Stacoviak: It's in the zip code? It's like --

Mat Ryer: Yeah, geographically.

Adam Stacoviak: ...on the street.

Mat Ryer: What lat-long? What's your lat-long of this incident? Narrow it down a bit.

Adam Stacoviak: I can't tell you. That's my information? I'm in the US of A, you know that... Down here in Texas!

Mat Ryer: [laughs] You can't do anything illegal in Texas, can you?

Adam Stacoviak: No, everything's --

Thomas Eckert: There's no laws.

Nick Nisi: Oh, it's all in the dossier...

Jerod Santo: If you do something illegal, don't they just take you Dan-Tan?

Adam Stacoviak: Dan-Ttan. Yeah, I'm taking you Dan-Tan.

Thomas Eckert: Gravy-Tan!

Jerod Santo: Oh...! Gravy-Tan! Alright, well, we have an unprecedented occurrence here... I've never been through this. I don't have it in my rulebook even, how to handle this circumstance. But of the definitions - I now have all four of your definitions. Three of them were the correct definition, and one person made one up. So I guess we could just -- [laughter] We could all go around and guess who might not know the definition. Or --

Adam Stacoviak: Yeah, let's change the rules for this one answer.

Jerod Santo: Okay. So we will guess now who you think had to make up the definition and didn't actually know...

Adam Stacoviak: Oh, yes.

Jerod Santo: This might turn into some sort of a class war.

Mat Ryer: We could also still pick which exact definition is the official one. That's still a game, I guess.

Thomas Eckert: Well, yeah, can we get what the fake definition was before we try to place it on someone?

Adam Stacoviak: [unintelligible 00:21:35.27] fair play.

Jerod Santo: Yeah.

Thomas Eckert: That's true.

Jerod Santo: Let's keep it fair. Let's keep it 100% fair. So Thomas goes first. Thomas, who do you think made up a definition in this round?

Thomas Eckert: Alright...

Mat Ryer: This game is taking [unintelligible 00:21:51.18]

Thomas Eckert: No, it doesn't. It's not fair to assume that the person didn't know what the actual answer was, but may have been playing that strategy, where --

Jerod Santo: Right, the metagame. Most likely they were, and it just backfired horrendously. Or not. Because if you guess their name, then they get a point for tricking you.

Thomas Eckert: [22:10] They get a point for tricking me... When I choose...

Jerod Santo: [laughs]

Adam Stacoviak: Because you think they lied, and --

Jerod Santo: [unintelligible 00:22:14.23] yourself, at which point the points cancel out.

Thomas Eckert: Unless it's myself...

Adam Stacoviak: Yes. You get about a 33% chance of getting it right. Well, I guess maybe a 66. What is the math on that one...?

Thomas Eckert: It depends on whether or not I'm the person who made it up.

Jerod Santo: Right. But the person whose name gets guessed gets a point. Don't think about it too hard... Flip a coin and pick a name.

Thomas Eckert: I'm thinking that I could see Mat making something up.

Jerod Santo: Alright, so Thomas picks Mat. Adam, your turn. Who do you think it was?

Adam Stacoviak: Who did what?

Jerod Santo: Who made a fake definition and submitted it to me.

Adam Stacoviak: I think you did. I think you began the game of fakeness.

Jerod Santo: I did not.

Adam Stacoviak: You did. I believe you did. This is the time that you would slip it in there. This is the one time, the only time.

Jerod Santo: [laughs] So you think that I'm trying to get a zero here?

Mat Ryer: So Adam, you think the official answer here is wrong?

Adam Stacoviak: I don't understand your logic, but you've done it, okay? I'm sticking to my guns. I'm picking Jerod.

Jerod Santo: Okay, so Adam thinks Jerod. Thomas said it was Mat. Adam thought it was me. Mat, who do you think it is?

Mat Ryer: Well, I think it's Adam Stacks. I think it's Adam.

Jerod Santo: You think Adam stacked the deck against you?

Mat Ryer: And I won't caveat it with all the politeness. You know what I think.

Jerod Santo: Alright, so one vote for Mat, Jerod and Adam... And now Nick - who do you think it was?

Nick Nisi: Wait, how do I get the points here?

Jerod Santo: You have to name the person that submitted a fake definition.

Thomas Eckert: The only way to win is to not play... [laughter]

Nick Nisi: No, I'm gonna win, because I'm gonna say it was me.

Jerod Santo: Oh...! It was Nick!

Thomas Eckert: There ya go...

Jerod Santo: And so Nick wins the round...

Mat Ryer: By getting it wrong.

Jerod Santo: ...in some sort of crazy turn of events. He gets a point - or two points for getting it correct. Unfortunately, everybody else scored three points, because Mat, Adam and Thomas all got the correct definition. A hypothetical elementary particle that mediates the force of gravitation in the framework of quantum field theory. Nobody said it that nicely. That's the correct thing... But they all got pretty close, though. Nick submitted "A database as a service solution for enterprise infrastructure solutions." So a lot of solutions in that...

Thomas Eckert: Well, you've got Fermyon. They should have Graviton.

Nick Nisi: In my defense, I had a greater chance of saying it was a JavaScript framework and getting it right than you all did guessing me.

Mat Ryer: Yeah, that's true. [laughs]

Thomas Eckert: The hypothtical JavaScript framework.

Mat Ryer: Yeah.

Adam Stacoviak: And I was trying to throw everybody off by choosing Jerod... I was like "Well, you know, nobody expects this..."

Mat Ryer: Yeah, that's why I went for you.

Jerod Santo: I was hoping that nobody would say Nick, and I would get three points for the miss, but... He named himself; he outed himself, and to much success, he got two points there.

Nick Nisi: I totally knew what it was... I was trying to trick all of you.

Jerod Santo: Oh, you're playing the meta game.

Thomas Eckert: Yeah, he's playing the meta game.

Jerod Santo: Smart. It backfired horrendously, but you still scored two points. Everybody else scored three. So after round two, we have Mat, Adam and Thomas tied in first, with five. Nick in dead last with four. And I still have zero, but it doesn't count as dead last, because I'm just the moderator, people. I'm not actually playing the game.

Nick Nisi: Wait, wait, wait... A question. Is the point of the game to try and trick everyone else, but then know the right answer and guess it?

Jerod Santo: Absolutely.

Nick Nisi: Or is it to guess it first?

Mat Ryer: How can you do both of those?

Thomas Eckert: That can be the best if you can get a fake definition that is so good that everyone else --

Adam Stacoviak: That's what you're trying to do.

Jerod Santo: You have to get the ultimate pile-on, and then not pile on yourself. That's how you get the most points.

Nick Nisi: A JavaScript framework. Just say that for the rest of them, and...

Jerod Santo: [laughs]

Thomas Eckert: They all [unintelligible 00:25:33.03] JavaScript frameworks.

Jerod Santo: Well, you'll have a good opportunity now. We move to round three. This is a different round. We call this round "Namespace conflict." And this one, I've gone out to the GitHub, and I have found an open source project. I will give you all the name of the open source project. Your job is to write the tagline or the description of said open source project.

Mat Ryer: That's great.

Adam Stacoviak: And the title of this project is "Nuclei." Please submit to me your fake taglines now.

Thomas Eckert: [26:10] And this is not nucleus, from --

Adam Stacoviak: Don't say it... Don't say it...

Thomas Eckert: Silicon Valley. [laughter]

Jerod Santo: I would never -- I would absolutely never. Now, if one of you happens to know what Nuclei is, then you just tell me that and you'll still get those three points. Thomas first to submit... I have Mat's. So far, nobody has known it.

Adam Stacoviak: I'm not sure that's a good thing to say, Jerod...

Jerod Santo: Let's see if Nick can get in before Adam does, and retain Adam's streak of last submitter.

Thomas Eckert: Last off the field.

Jerod Santo: And I have Nick's.

Adam Stacoviak: Ah. So close. I added one comma, and a space, and then two more dots, and a plus sign.

Jerod Santo: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Adam Stacoviak: I added a last-minute edit to be more clear. So if you see or hear him delay or add a plus in the definitions, that's just me, to be clear.

Jerod Santo: Okay. I now have all four definitions, or descriptions I should say, for the very real open source project on GitHub called Nuclei. But what is Nuclei? Number one, it's believed to be the real world version of nucleus, the copied middle out compression framework from HBO's Silicon Valley.

Thomas Eckert: [laughs]

Jerod Santo: How dare you. Number two, a fast and customizable vulnerability scanner based on simple YAML-based DSL. Number three, an abstraction atop all popular frontend testing technologies. Run everything from one place. Number four, a blazingly fast JavaScript framework written in Rust, with AI superpowers. And number five, "Nuclei: Get to the center of your issues."

Thomas Eckert: Emotionally...?

Jerod Santo: There you have five potential descriptions of a very real open source project called Nuclei... But which is the real one? We start now with Adam.

Adam Stacoviak: Can you repeat a few for me, please?

Jerod Santo: A few of them, just at random?

Mat Ryer: Use the lava lamp to pick which one, Adam.

Jerod Santo: He doesn't care which ones he hears back. He just wants to hear a few. Were you listening the first time?

Adam Stacoviak: I'd love to hear two and three, please. Two and three.

Jerod Santo: Two and three, okay. Two is a fast and customizable vulnerability scanner based on simple YAML-based DSL.

Adam Stacoviak: Okay. I meant three and four, sorry.

Jerod Santo: Three is an abstraction on top all popular frontend testing technologies. Run everything from one place. And four is a blazingly fast JS framework written in Rust, with AI superpowers.

Adam Stacoviak: What was number one again?

Jerod Santo: HBO's Silicon Valley...

Adam Stacoviak: What about number five? I'm just kidding. I'll take number three, please.

Jerod Santo: Alright, number three is the abstraction.

Adam Stacoviak: Abstraction. Read that one again, one more time?

Jerod Santo: An abstraction atop all popular frontend testing technologies. Run everything in one place.

Adam Stacoviak: That's the one.

Jerod Santo: That's the one?

Adam Stacoviak: Right.

Jerod Santo: Alright. That's Adam's. We go now to Mat.

Mat Ryer: Hmm... Can you read number five again? I'm not trolling. I think that's the one I'm gonna --

Jerod Santo: You're not trolling?

Mat Ryer: No.

Jerod Santo: Number five, it says "Get to the center of your issues."

Adam Stacoviak: Is it 'git' though?

Jerod Santo: Not it's 'get'.

Adam Stacoviak: Okay.

Mat Ryer: Yeah. I mean, that's good. That's a good -- it could be also quite a good fake. This would be a good fake that one of these young lads would come up with, I reckon, to throw me off a scent.

Jerod Santo: Yeah. It's hard to say.

Mat Ryer: Yeah. And number two again, just one more time, Jerod?

Jerod Santo: Number two was the fast and customizable vulnerability scanner based on a simple YAML DSL.

Mat Ryer: Yeah. It was the addition of the YAML DSL... Like, that's a brag... That's somehow --

Jerod Santo: It's a brag? They're trying too hard?

Mat Ryer: I'm gonna go number five, I think. And I deserve to lose points to someone if they've --

Jerod Santo: Alright, Mat votes for number five, "Get to the center of your issues." Nick, what do you think?

Nick Nisi: I think -- what was number one again? [laughter]

Thomas Eckert: You know, you can write things down...

Jerod Santo: I refuse to read number one again. You know what it is, and you're just trolling me.

Nick Nisi: [30:13] Your favorite show, right?

Jerod Santo: Absolutely.

Nick Nisi: I'm sorry, but can you -- I think I have number two... Can you repeat number three, please?

Jerod Santo: An abstraction atop all popular frontend testing technologies. Run everything from one place. Adam selected that one, in case you want to have Mat singing the pile-on song again...

Nick Nisi: So he selected three, and five...

Jerod Santo: Mat's on five, Adam's on three...

Adam Stacoviak: It's number on, Nick...

Thomas Eckert: Who's on third...?

Nick Nisi: I'll take two.

Jerod Santo: Two. You're taking the vulnerability scanner, correct?

Nick Nisi: Yes.

Jerod Santo: Okay. Nick has that one. We go now to Thomas.

Thomas Eckert: Alright. Can you read...

Jerod Santo: Yes, I can.

Thomas Eckert: Oh, that's wonderful.

Jerod Santo: [laughs]

Thomas Eckert: Alright. As I've heard this, I'm thinking, "Get to the center of your issues." It's nice, it's clean... It could be fake, but... It also leaves a lot of interpretation as to what the project could actually do. Getting to the center of your issues - it could be a therapy program, it could be a lot.

Jerod Santo: True.

Thomas Eckert: So I'm thinking I'll go with that one. Center of your issues. We'll pile onto that one a little bit.

Jerod Santo: Alright. A little bit of a pile-on. We've only got two on there, Thomas and Mat. So let's start right there. Both Mat and Thomas thought that a Nuclei might be "Get to the center of your issues." A pretty good tagline, written by one Nick Nisi. So that is Nick's.

Mat Ryer: So good.

Thomas Eckert: Very good, Nick.

Mat Ryer: Because it's Nucle-i. Because you're saying "i" as well, so it's like looking out...

Jerod Santo: I thought it was great. Yeah. Very good one.

Mat Ryer: So good. It deserves -- how many points does it get?

Jerod Santo: So Nick scores two points for tricking two of you...

Adam Stacoviak: Good job, Nick.

Jerod Santo: Adam, however, thought that a nuclei was the abstraction atop of all popular frontend testing technologies. That was written by Mat. So Mat gets a point there.

Mat Ryer: Nice one.

Jerod Santo: And Nick thought it was a customizable vulnerability scanner based on a simple YAML-based DSL. And that is exactly what Nuclei is.

Thomas Eckert: Really? Alright.

Jerod Santo: So Nick got it right. He gets two more points for the correct answer, and really takes a big lead after around three.

Adam Stacoviak: Dang.

Nick Nisi: I was really queuing in on that YAML keyword, too. That's really specific, or it's trying to trick me.

Adam Stacoviak: And I obviously wrote about the copy [unintelligible 00:32:30.22]

Jerod Santo: And we all know who wrote the Silicon Valley one.

Adam Stacoviak: My problem though was that I worded that incorrectly. It was not like a description. It was not believable.

Jerod Santo: Right.

Thomas Eckert: I think it was too long for the GitHub tagline area, too.

Adam Stacoviak: Yeah, that's the problem. As I read that back, I'm like, my strategy for what I wrote was wrong.

Jerod Santo: The other problem is it had Silicon Valley in it, so... Yeah. You basically traded points for a few lols.

Adam Stacoviak: If I could have just said like "Fan art based on Silicon Valley" that would have been good, right? Just like simple.

Jerod Santo: Okay, that might have been believable.

Adam Stacoviak: That might have actually gotten you guys, you know?

Mat Ryer: We're gonna get better at this, aren't we, as we go?

Adam Stacoviak: Yeah. Well, that's the strategy... It's like believability, and STEM. Because sometimes there's definitions out there that are like not STEM.

Jerod Santo: That's true. After three rounds, Nick moves from dead last to dead first. He has seven points. Mat is in second place with six, and Thomas and Adam are tied with five AP. So it's a tight game. We move now to round four, where the word is ductility. Please submit your definitions now.

Mat Ryer: Adam, can I have a random number from your lava lamp, please?

Adam Stacoviak: Got it.

Mat Ryer: Thank you. Yup. I'll just write it down. Number six.

Jerod Santo: Mat is in. Thomas is in.

Thomas Eckert: We've got the same exact thing.

Mat Ryer: Could have...

Jerod Santo: You did in the graviton round...

Mat Ryer: [33:57] Thomas, you keep having to go with beans on toast. What's the sort of local food from where you are that's popular?

Thomas Eckert: You know, where I am - I'm just outside of DC. And so there's such a --

Mat Ryer: The comics? The comicbooks?

Thomas Eckert: Yeah. Yeah, no, no, no... And of course, the other coast do have Marvel...

Mat Ryer: The two big rivals, aren't they?

Thomas Eckert: The two big rivals. I would say that DC --

Mat Ryer: Is that where Batman lives?

Thomas Eckert: That is where Batman lives, and --

Jerod Santo: A lot of kryptonite...

Thomas Eckert: ...he does take care of a lot of... Well, there's a lot of kryptonite, and that is the main kind of industry in the area, is kryptonite mining. So very, you know...

Jerod Santo: But not exactly a cuisine. I mean, we're not talking --

Thomas Eckert: No, no, no, no. We're getting there. I mean, some people love large vats of acid. Some people find it transformative. Some people find it drives them crazy. You know, there's not a real central DC cuisine I can think of, but I will say, I spent a long time in Rochester, New York. It's where I went to grad school. And they have something called a garbage plate.

Mat Ryer: Ooh, that sounds delicious.

Thomas Eckert: Do you know what a garbage plate is?

Mat Ryer: No, but it sounds yummy.

Jerod Santo: I could take a few guesses...

Thomas Eckert: Yeah. Well, it's kind of a loose idea about food... It is a plate that includes hamburger, you've got some hotdog on there, chopped up usually, some macaroni salad, sometimes beans... Really just anything that you might --

Jerod Santo: Is there any toast?

Thomas Eckert: You know what, with a little bit of ingenuity, you could add some toast to that.

Mat Ryer: So if you worked hard, you could turn garbage into beans on toast, is what we're saying here.

Thomas Eckert: Exactly. There is a possible transmutation from garbage to beans on toast. Yes. And so that's where a lot of my perspective comes from.

Mat Ryer: Is it garbage plate like leftovers, and it's just a mix of everything...?

Thomas Eckert: It's kind of like everything that you could get at a diner, or a barbecue joint... Well, not like a Southern barbecue joint, but like, you know...

Mat Ryer: A Northern one.

Thomas Eckert: Maybe at a family barbecue, yeah.

Jerod Santo: I just thought it was the result of a successful night of dumpster diving. But...

Thomas Eckert: It can be. Depending on your palate, and how good you are at digesting food...

Jerod Santo: Right. Alright, we have all four definitions - five, including the real one - for ductility. Number one, the act of throwing something or someone out of a window. Number two, helpful objects formed with duct tape. Number three, a measure of how solvable a problem is using duct tape. Covering a small hole has high ductility. Number four, a fast, utility-first duck-typing library. And number five, a temporary tool to quickly fix an issue, contraction of duct tape and utility. So there's your five definitions. We start with Mat this round. What do you think is the right definition?

Mat Ryer: That last one sounds properly like real... But is that a double bluff? Or just a normal bluff? I could be just a one bluff.

Thomas Eckert: It could be a triple bluff.

Mat Ryer: Could it?

Jerod Santo: Actually, a double bluff would be worth choosing.

Mat Ryer: If it's even, does it go back to -- which one... If it's odd, it goes back to what it was... I can't remember.

Jerod Santo: I think you know the answer to this.

Mat Ryer: What's like a 15th bluff?

Thomas Eckert: It just goes odd/even, yeah.

Mat Ryer: Okay. I think the one about measuring how easy you could fix something with duct tape, measuring the severity of a problem. I like that. But... Yeah.

Jerod Santo: Okay. That's number three, a measure of how solvable a problem is using duct tape. That would be the ductility.

Mat Ryer: It's either that or the last one, I would say. So I will go for three.

Jerod Santo: Alright, he's going for three. Nick.

Nick Nisi: Three was my guest, too. But to be different, I'm gonna go with five.

Jerod Santo: Do you know what number five is, Nick, or are you just following the leader?

Nick Nisi: That was the one about ductyping, right?

Jerod Santo: No, that was four.

Nick Nisi: Can you repeat number five? [laughter]

Jerod Santo: I thought you might have moved a little quick on that... Number five was a temporary tool to quickly fix an issue. A contraction of duct tape and utility. Ductility.

Nick Nisi: Oh. Okay. I'm gonna stick with five.

Jerod Santo: Oh, you're gonna stick with that one?

Nick Nisi: Yeah.

Adam Stacoviak: Oh. It's like, something was in there, that like --

Jerod Santo: Alright, that's Nick's. He's got five. And Thomas.

Thomas Eckert: [38:17] Yes, I will pile on with Nick... Even though he didn't know which one he was picking. Now he does, and I agree with him. That temporary tool - that sounds right.

Jerod Santo: Okay.

Nick Nisi: You're being very ductile there, Thomas.

Thomas Eckert: Yes.

Jerod Santo: Last up, Adam. What are you thinking? We have a pile-on beginning, and we also have Mat over there on the solvable problem using duct tape --

Mat Ryer: Not feeling good over here on this little island, I'll tell you that...

Thomas Eckert: Not feeling good...

Adam Stacoviak: I'm gonna give you a chance here, Jerod, to get some points.

Jerod Santo: You're gonna pile?

Adam Stacoviak: We're gonna split it. I'm gonna go with Mat.

Jerod Santo: You're gonna go with Mat.

Adam Stacoviak: Yeah. I think it's a measure.

Jerod Santo: Okay, he thinks it's a measure.

Adam Stacoviak: Ductility is definitely a measure.

Jerod Santo: Alright... So we don't need the pile-on song.

Mat Ryer: It's hard to remember the definitions and stuff, because I think Jerod reads them, and we're not listening... That's what [unintelligible 00:39:08.27]

Jerod Santo: [laughs] I get that feeling, too... Because as soon as I read them, someone's like "Will you read those again?" It's like, "Where were you when I read them?" I don't know. I don't know the answer to that question... Because you're all right here in my screens, but... Okay, let's see how it shakes out. Dogpile number one was Nick and Thomas. They thought ductility was a temporary tool to quickly fix an issue. A contraction of duct tape and utility - I thought that was pretty clever... And Mat is pretty clever, because that was his definition.

Mat Ryer: Cheeky...!

Jerod Santo: Two points for Mat.

Thomas Eckert: Cheeky.

Mat Ryer: That's the sound effect they play when that happens. He does it in English, like "Cheeky...!" It's like, English... [laughter]

Jerod Santo: We've got a clip right there.

Mat Ryer: Yeah. That's it.

Jerod Santo: Alright. Dogpile number two was Mat and Adam. They thought ductility was a measure of how solvable a problem is using duct tape. That was Thomas'es measure. He made that one up. Two points for Thomas.

Mat Ryer: Great one.

Adam Stacoviak: Good job, Thomas.

Thomas Eckert: Thank you.

Adam Stacoviak: I didn't want to go with it, because I kind of figured it probably wasn't true... But I figured, "Whoever did it earned the points." Earned the points, you know?

Jerod Santo: He earned them. And guess who else earned a few points this round?

Mat Ryer: Jerod...!

Jerod Santo: Yours truly, because ductility is the act of throwing something or someone out of a window.

Mat Ryer: What...?!

Thomas Eckert: I thought that that was defenestration.

Jerod Santo: Oh, shoot... I switched the words. I'm serious. I switched the words. [laughs] It is defenestration.

Thomas Eckert: [laughs] Because you didn't read the right definition for ductility...

Jerod Santo: No, I didn't.

Thomas Eckert: Do you want to --

Jerod Santo: Yeah, I know what ductility is. Oh...!

Adam Stacoviak: I'll tell you what ductility is... Ductility is helpful objects formed from duct tape. That's what ductility is...

Thomas Eckert: Ductility is a metal is ductile if you can hit it with a hammer and deform it.

Jerod Santo: Right... I screwed it up big time. I actually didn't switch them. What I did was I took defenestration and I pasted its definition on top of ductility's.

Mat Ryer: Do not feel bad. Don't throw yourself out the window. [laughter]

Jerod Santo: This is unfixable. I don't think I get any points this round.

Adam Stacoviak: No points awarded.

Jerod Santo: That's how we'll fix it. I'll go zero, and we'll leave everything else alone. Wooh! So what was the correct definition again?

Thomas Eckert: If a metal can be deformed by hitting it with a hammer, and it stays in that deformation. So like a wire has high ductility, because you can kind of stretch it out...

Jerod Santo: Right. The ability of a material to sustain significant plastic deformation before fracture. That's what it was.

Thomas Eckert: Yes.

Jerod Santo: Yeah... I pasted the wrong thing. I was really excited, because defenestration was such a cool word.

Thomas Eckert: It is a good word.

Jerod Santo: [41:59] And I have a round called "Not STEM", because that's not STEM. Throwing something out a window is not STEM...

Thomas Eckert: No, that's physics. That's physics.

Mat Ryer: I've worked in some places, I can tell you...

Jerod Santo: Well, maybe. Yeah. I was trying to think of the ways I would argue that being STEM, because I read the definition and I'm like "That's not really stem." That's just throwing people out windows.

Nick Nisi: Thomas, why did you know that so fast?

Jerod Santo: Defenestration, yeah. You knew that really well.

Thomas Eckert: Why did I know that word? Just random facts knowledge, but... [laughter] But background context here...

Jerod Santo: Is required.

Thomas Eckert: Well, I have my master's degree in physics. Did you know that? Okay, so there's a couple of things, like graviton, that -- those ones were...

Jerod Santo: They're hitting into your wheelhouse.

Thomas Eckert: They're hitting into my wheelhouse.

Jerod Santo: And throwing people out of windows was one of your hobbies in college, then?

Thomas Eckert: Yeah, exactly. That's actually how they dealt with us if we didn't do well on our papers.

Jerod Santo: Okay. They defenestrated you.

Thomas Eckert: They defenestrated me, yeah.

Jerod Santo: The worst part about this is I ruined two rounds, because I can't use that one anymore either.

Thomas Eckert: Well, actually, I ruined that by calling you out on --

Jerod Santo: No, you were correct. I ruined it by having the wrong definition for ductility.

Mat Ryer: You both ruined it. Don't fall out over this. [laughter]

Thomas Eckert: We've ruined it together.

Mat Ryer: So what's the word again? Defenestration?

Jerod Santo: Defenestration is the act of throwing something or someone out of a window.

Mat Ryer: So is fenestration -- would fenestration be throwing them into a window? Like throwing them up and in?

Jerod Santo: Thomas? Explain the physics of that one.

Thomas Eckert: That's what they do for firefighting. If they need to get you onto the second floor, and they don't have a ladder, they've got somebody really big, and they go --

Jerod Santo: They fenestrate you.

Mat Ryer: That's why they have the trampolines at the bottom? Is that just so they can bounce up and see what's going on?

Thomas Eckert: That's just for fun, actually. It's a very stressful job. So you know how at Google they have ping pong tables... That's why they bring the trampolines.

Mat Ryer: Oh. It's just like "Go and have five minutes. Billy, you've worked hard. Go and have five minutes on the trampoline. We'll deal with the rest of this fire."

Thomas Eckert: Exactly. Yes.

Jerod Santo: Well, after a crazy round four, I have subtracted those three points that I gave myself, and I'm back at zero... But we let Thomas's two and Mat's two stand, because they did convince Mat -- or they convinced the other people to select theirs, and so that puts them into a tie for second, Thomas, and a leader now, Mat leapfrogging over Nick and Thomas at seven, with eight. So it's Mat eight, Nick and Thomas tied with seven, and Adam with five. I am down here in the basement, where I belong... And we move now to round five.

Break: [44:32]

Jerod Santo: And we move now to round five... This is our new round.

Mat Ryer: Oh, no...

Jerod Santo: Well, this is a different round, called "Give it a goog."

Mat Ryer: Give it a what? [laughter]

Jerod Santo: Give it a goog!

Thomas Eckert: Jerod, Mat's cracking up. Do you know what goog means in British English? It's a little bit inappropriate. Mat, do you want to say it?

Mat Ryer: That's the round. Everyone has to guess. What does it mean in British?

Jerod Santo: [laughs] That might give you an advantage, Mat. An unfair advantage.

Mat Ryer: Jerod, he's got a master's degree in physics. How's that not giving him an unfair advantage? Education is just cheating, guys.

Jerod Santo: That's fair.

Thomas Eckert: Education is cheating. It's the most expensive form of cheating.

Mat Ryer: Yeah.

Jerod Santo: [laughs]

Adam Stacoviak: Yeah.

Jerod Santo: Yeah, sometimes too expensive to climb out from under... Hopefully, you're putting that to good work. Aren't you a software engineer? Are you also a physician?

Thomas Eckert: A physician? That's a different degree. [laughter] I can't do that.

Mat Ryer: Yeah, that's his next one.

Adam Stacoviak: Are you a physician...?

Jerod Santo: I thought you said you had your degree in physicians...

Thomas Eckert: Physicians? [laughs[

Jerod Santo: Okay, for this round, called "Give it a goog", which is goog, of course, the ticker symbol for Google, and not some sort of British euphemism, I hope...

Thomas Eckert: We'll have to bleep it for the British audiences, but yeah.

Jerod Santo: ...is a round in which I began to ask Google a question, or type a phrase into Google, and then I paused and let it autocomplete.

Mat Ryer: Ah...!

Jerod Santo: Your job is to write said autocomplete. So what was the number one suggested autocomplete for the given phrase, in Google? And that phrase was "Why doesn't Apple..." "Why doesn't Apple", and I stopped. And Google suggested a bunch of things. One of those things is the number one thing. And you now write what you think that is.

Mat Ryer: Did you do this in...

Jerod Santo: Incognito mode?

Mat Ryer: Yeah. Because otherwise it's going to be specific to you, and it'd be something about, I don't know, sports, or...

Jerod Santo: Right. And I wouldn't want to share those skeletons in my closet... Alright, so there it is. "Why doesn't Apple...", finish that phrase. What do you think Google would autocomplete? I have Mat's... I was in San Francisco once, in this bar, and I met an Apple engineer. And this was just when the M1 chips came out. And we were kind of chatting... And I said to him -- he said "Oh, I'm working on something top secret, Mat." And I was like "Oh, what is it? The M2?" and he just went like pale and quiet... So I had guessed the M2, as a joke, from the M1.

Jerod Santo: Did you work for Gizmodo at the time?

Mat Ryer: Oh, no. And no one will hire me in the press... [laughter]

Jerod Santo: Ifl you really wanted to make money, you should have stole off with his prereleased iPhone.

Mat Ryer: Yeah, that would have been good, actually... Although -- I'm not a thief, really... But I could have won it in a bet.

Jerod Santo: Well, not in that case... You know, after he turned into a ghost. I mean...

Mat Ryer: He went all serious. He's like "I can't talk about it." I'd guessed it, hadn't I...? But it was such an obvious guess. Why would that be covered by NDA...? I don't know...

Jerod Santo: Because they can't tell you that they're going to increment the number.

Mat Ryer: Yeah. Top secret.

Jerod Santo: Had you had said M3, he could have just laughed and said "Of course not."

Mat Ryer: Yeah. Or M1 part 2. M1 Pro Max, actually, to be fair. They do have the ultra --

Thomas Eckert: Those names don't make any sense.

Jerod Santo: I have Thomas'es, and Nick's, and Adam's. I'm not sure who came in first there, but we know who came in last...

Mat Ryer: I don't want Adam to feel picked on because he's being slow.

Jerod Santo: Of course not.

Mat Ryer: You guys took ages to agree with me then...

Thomas Eckert: It's because they had to cross the ocean to get here.

Mat Ryer: Right.

Jerod Santo: Sorry, I'm in the middle of very complicated copy-paste. You know what can go wrong when I copy-paste wrong. I change the meaning of words.

Adam Stacoviak: Don't do that.

Jerod Santo: Alright. Give it a goog. "Why doesn't Apple..." Five potential responses. The first one, "Why doesn't Apple Pay work?" The second one, "Why doesn't Apple taste good like banana?" [laughter] The third one, "Why doesn't Apple make cheaper products?" Number four, "Why doesn't Apple let me change the default browser for iPhone?" Number five, "Why doesn't Apple let iPads run MacOS?" There you have, the five potential autocompletes for the phrase "Why doesn't Apple..." We start this round with Nick.

Nick Nisi: [54:19] Not with me... Can you repeat the first two, please?

Jerod Santo: Number one was "Why doesn't Apple Pay work?" Number two was "Why doesn't Apple tastes good like banana?" [laughter]

Jerod Santo: Apparently, submitted by [unintelligible 00:54:35.08]

Nick Nisi: Apple does support other browsers, sort of, and in the EU...

Thomas Eckert: But that was a recent -- yeah...

Jerod Santo: The default browser?

Thomas Eckert: The default browser, I don't think so.

Nick Nisi: You can change the default browser, but the default browser is always Safari everywhere, except for the EU now.

Thomas Eckert: Sure.

Jerod Santo: You mean the rendering engine versus the actual like app.

Nick Nisi: Yeah.

Thomas Eckert: But would people know that?

Nick Nisi: But you've been able to change the default browser forever. So...

Adam Stacoviak: These are non-nerd searches, Nick...

Jerod Santo: Yeah, I mean, these are the masses here...

Nick Nisi: Okay. So then it is either one or two. I'll go with one... Because apples are better than bananas.

Jerod Santo: Alright, number one. Nick takes number one. We go now to Thomas.

Thomas Eckert: I'm thinking though "Why doesn't Apple Pay work?", because that seems like what the masses might be thinking...

Nick Nisi: We could be mis-stereotyping very badly... [laughter]

Thomas Eckert: Well, okay...

Jerod Santo: In my experience, Apple Pay has worked pretty well.

Thomas Eckert: It works pretty well, but...

Adam Stacoviak: Same.

Nick Nisi: I don't carry anything else.

Jerod Santo: Anything else?

Nick Nisi: No.

Jerod Santo: Wow.

Adam Stacoviak: No wallet?

Nick Nisi: No wallet.

Jerod Santo: Where's your ID?

Nick Nisi: It's in the car...

Jerod Santo: Okay. So if you want to steal Nick's identity, just steal his car.

Thomas Eckert: Steal his car, get his identity...

Adam Stacoviak: I'm hopping in your car when you get out, buddy...

Jerod Santo: Alright... Well, that's pretty good [unintelligible 00:55:56.25]

Mat Ryer: Which car is his, though? Which cars is his?

Jerod Santo: The one with his ID in it, Mat. Come on. Keep up.

Nick Nisi: My car is not identifiable.

Thomas Eckert: What's your VIN number? Yeah...

Nick Nisi: My license plate si VIM.

Thomas Eckert: VIM?

Jerod Santo: It literally is.

Thomas Eckert: That's so good.

Jerod Santo: Now he's just doxxed himself hardcore.

Adam Stacoviak: Come on, Nick... Edit that out.

Mat Ryer: That's funny, because my --

Adam Stacoviak: It's MIV...

Nick Nisi: Is that why you're so slow?

Jerod Santo: "Is that why you're so slow?" [laughs] Rimshot...

Mat Ryer: I've never got a speeding ticket, let's put it that way.

Adam Stacoviak: Quite bloated.

Jerod Santo: Thomas, we're still waiting for you to decide.

Thomas Eckert: Still waiting... I'm gonna pile on with Nick on the "Why doesn't Apple Pay work?"

Jerod Santo: Alright. We're gonna get the pile-on song out... Alright. We go to Adam.

Adam Stacoviak: It's a pile-on... The other ones are too wordy, you know?

Jerod Santo: Which ones?

Adam Stacoviak: They're all too wordy.

Jerod Santo: "Why doesn't Apple let iPads run macOS?"

Adam Stacoviak: Yeah. That's like --

Jerod Santo: It's four words.

Adam Stacoviak: It's like 17 down in the autocomplete. Not the first one. It's an autocomplete, for sure, but not the first one. Overly explanatory is not good, in this case.

Jerod Santo: Okay. So you're going with the shortest one?

Adam Stacoviak: They just added one word, "work". Well, pay and work, I suppose. Two words. Count them. One, two.

Jerod Santo: So you're piling on.

Adam Stacoviak: Pile on. Yeah. Number one.

Jerod Santo: Alright.

Adam Stacoviak: I just shared my logic with you, Mat, so I'm giving you a leg up.

Jerod Santo: Mat, what are you thinking? We have a pile-on here...

Adam Stacoviak: There's another one though that you could probably guess, just saying...

Thomas Eckert: Tastes good like banana...

Mat Ryer: Well, that's that one's funny, but I think people -- there's no reason why... In an incognito mode, there's no reason why it would assume Apple the company, maybe...

Thomas Eckert: Oh, no, of course.

Mat Ryer: And it could easily be a funny one... Why doesn't apple taste good like banana? I like that one.

Adam Stacoviak: Banana. It's not banana, it's banana.

Mat Ryer: Oh yeah, sorry.

Thomas Eckert: Banana. That's how they say it. And there's a u in there somewhere.

Mat Ryer: Yeah.

Jerod Santo: Do you think the world's population prefers banana to apple?

Mat Ryer: [58:04] Yeah, I'm the one --

Adam Stacoviak: [unintelligible 00:58:04.17] just say banana by itself, it's like no, that's not real, is it?

Mat Ryer: I'm the one talking funny.

Adam Stacoviak: Do you really say that, Mat? Do you say banaana?

Mat Ryer: Banaana.

Adam Stacoviak: Banaana.

Jerod Santo: It sounds like banaana-nana-nana...

Adam Stacoviak: I'm sorry about that, Mat... I feel bad for you.

Mat Ryer: You save loads of time, to be fair. At the end of your day, you've shaved -- if you add it up over your lifetime, you've probably saved significant...

Jerod Santo: I mean, ours sounds so much better. Banana. I mean, that's just better. Banana.

Mat Ryer: Yeah, it doesn't hurt my ears.

Adam Stacoviak: B-A-NA-NA... Whatever.

Jerod Santo: Let's hear a selection, Mat, before we --

Mat Ryer: I think it's a pile-on.

Jerod Santo: You think it's a pile-on? Alright. Should we play the pile-on song?

Adam Stacoviak: Gosh.. How about version two? A remix.

Jerod Santo: Let's hear it. Yeah, make it different.

[58:49]

Have you ever seen a baby... That looked like an old man...? Have you ever seen a lady, that also looked like an old man? Well, I don't know what that's about, but we're gonna pile on... And that's why we sing the pile-on song...

Mat Ryer: It wasn't as relevant as the first one, was it?

Adam Stacoviak: You should have put banana in there, buddy...

Jerod Santo: I don't know what that was about, honestly... I feel like he just remixed an old song for us... But we'll take it. It's

better that --

Mat Ryer: You think that was written? [laughs]

Jerod Santo: [laughs] Good point. Yeah... I was about to say it's better than toast underneath some beans. Alright.

Adam Stacoviak: There's at least one more definition that was plausible, okay? It's all I'm saying. One more definition was plausible.

Jerod Santo: So all four of you thought the number one autocomplete for "Why doesn't Apple..." is "Pay work." "Why doesn't Apple Pay work?", and that is the number one autocomplete for "Why doesn't Apple...", so two points for everybody.

Thomas Eckert: We blocked them out.

Jerod Santo: A.k.a. a worthless round. Good job, guys. Way to ruin it. Interestingly - I thought this was interesting... The number two response was "Why doesn't Apple pencil work on my iPhone?" And the number three response was "Why doesn't Apple CarPlay work?" And the number four autocomplete was "Why doesn't Apple TV work?" Are you sensing a theme?

Mat Ryer: But it makes sense. That's what people are searching for. You don't search for "Why is my iPhone working?" No one's searching for that, are they?

Thomas Eckert: That might be the better question. "Why is the iPhone working?"

Mat Ryer: That's true. It's mind-blowing when you dig into it...

Thomas Eckert: There are books on that.

Mat Ryer: You need a physics masters to understand it, probably...

Adam Stacoviak: That's right.

Thomas Eckert: You don't... This is gonna be my mark, for my life... [laughter]

Jerod Santo: Thomas Eckert, the physician.

Mat Ryer: It should say that, to be fair...

Thomas Eckert: "Is there a doctor on this plane...?" I can only throw people out the window... [laughter]

Jerod Santo: I don't fly planes, I fly helicopteurs... [laughter] After round five, we gave it a goog and Mat retains his lead with 10 points, Nick and Thomas with 9, and Adam with 7. We skip round six, because of reasons we will not revisit... And we move to round seven. Klein bottle.

Nick Nisi: Wait, it wasn't even the next one down? You skipped to like four answers down, and then copied the definition?

Jerod Santo: Excuse me?

Thomas Eckert: They both started with D...

Nick Nisi: I'm just trying to understand...

Jerod Santo: No, here's what happened... Do you guys want the full explanation? Because this is how software works. I switched the tabs, round six and round four, because I thought it'd be a better flow. And then I had the wrong thing for four, and so six had the same thing as four. Yeah, so that's why those two were involved. So thanks for revisiting that, even though I clearly declared we're not going to revisit it...

Break: [01:01:45.23]

Jerod Santo: Round seven, klein bottle. That's two words. Klein is the first word, and bottle is the second word. So klein bottle. Spell it out like that. Klein bottle. Excuse me, I'm off to go check the definition to make sure it's correct, so as to not embarrass somebody a second time. Nick, first one in... We should have had you do a song about "Apple tastes good like banana." [unintelligible 01:07:45.17]

Adam Stacoviak: Not too late.

Jerod Santo: That sounds like a nursery rhyme.

Thomas Eckert: Was that Mat's?

Jerod Santo: Yeah, that was Mat's.

Nick Nisi: It could have been a hit, like the "Pen, pineapple, apple pen..."

Thomas Eckert: Oh, yeah.

Mat Ryer: It would have been better if someone had gone for it, though...

Thomas Eckert: Yeah... It's okay.

Jerod Santo: Waiting on Adam.

Adam Stacoviak: Sorry about that.

Jerod Santo: It's okay, I'm just letting everybody know...

Adam Stacoviak: Par for the course here. Just perfecting my words here.

Nick Nisi: Can I change mine?

Jerod Santo: Sure.

Adam Stacoviak: You can, before the round begins... Not during. Sorry, Jerod. I'm doing your job.

Jerod Santo: No, it's all good.

Adam Stacoviak: I didn't swap the tabs though, so you're okay. How about all of them tabs that guy had? 7,400 tabs?

Jerod Santo: 7,400, yeah.

Adam Stacoviak: Come on, now...

Jerod Santo: Can you believe that?

Adam Stacoviak: I felt vindicated. I was lik "Yes...!"

Nick Nisi: I don't know what you're talking about.

Adam Stacoviak: I was listening to that news in my truck, just pumping my fist, and people were like "What's wrong with that guy?" [laughter] Somebody else trumped me on tabs...

Jerod Santo: Yeah, Nick, there was somebody who had 7,400 tabs open over the course of two plus years. And they were quite upset when Firefox suddenly lost their session. I have all five definitions, and we'll see which one is correct for klein bottle. Number one, a storage solution for Calvin's fetted wares. [laughter] Is it fetted or feeded?

Thomas Eckert: Fetted... [laughs] That's too funny.

Jerod Santo: I've never even seen that word. Number two, a non-orientable surface with no distinct inside or outside. Number three, a mathematical construct with finite volume and infinite surface area. A klein bottle can be filled with paint, but never painted. Never fully painted, excuse me. Number four, bottle cap tester tool for fitness and watertightness created by Klein Tools. Number five, an algorithm for aggregating time-series data originally described by Robert C. Klein. There we go... I'm gonna go to Adam first. Surely, you're gonna ask me to read them all again, and then we'll see what you have to say.

Adam Stacoviak: [01:09:57.02] Just a few of them, don't worry.

Jerod Santo: Okay, which ones you'd like to hear again?

Adam Stacoviak: One threw five, please. [laughter] No, I'm kidding around. I just need two and three. Two and three. I was just kidding with you.

Jerod Santo: Two and three. So two is a non-orientable surface with no distinct inside or outside. Number three is a mathematical construct with finite volume and infinite surface area, which could be filled with paint but never fully painted.

Adam Stacoviak: I like Thomas's reactions to two and three. I'm gonna go with two.

Jerod Santo: [laughs] Okay. Interesting.

Adam Stacoviak: I was playing you, Thomas. Thank you so much.

Jerod Santo: "I was playing you, Thomas." [laughs]

Thomas Eckert: I got played. [unintelligible 01:10:28.09]

Jerod Santo: You got totally played. Alright, well, let's see how Nick plays. Your turn, Nick. Oh, sorry, Mat. Mat, your turn.

Nick Nisi: Okay, I think I'm gonna go for number three. I like the idea that there's a thing that you can fill with paint. I've always wanted something that you can fill with paint, but can never paint it. So yeah, it's gonna be that one for me. And it's mathematical, so... Maths is [unintelligible 01:10:53.16]

Jerod Santo: Yeah, it's mathematics. Very good. Now we go to Nick.

Adam Stacoviak: Now I feel bad. I should have gone with three.

Nick Nisi: I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna go with three. And I think --

Adam Stacoviak: Oh, no! Don't go with three...! [laughter] Come on...!

Jerod Santo: They're piling on three.

Adam Stacoviak: This isn't a pile-on game...

Jerod Santo: Why do you think it is?

Nick Nisi: It was between two and three, because I think you read them in the order that we -- it's actually in an order that you are on my screen.

Mat Ryer: That's an insane reason.

Adam Stacoviak: That's his logic.

Jerod Santo: That's a meta game, isn't it? You think I'm just reading them in the screen order...

Nick Nisi: I knew that mine was number one...

Jerod Santo: Okay...

Mat Ryer: That's a mad reason. You might as well consult --

Jerod Santo: This guy is really playing the meta game.

Mat Ryer: I'm the last one. I'm the last one.

Thomas Eckert: No, you're not.

Jerod Santo: No, Thomas has to go.

Nick Nisi: Oh, shoot. I'm not. [laughter]

Adam Stacoviak: So you broke the rules, Nick. You get kicked out. Get out of here...!

Jerod Santo: I'm not the only one screwing this game up...

Adam Stacoviak: Jason... Everything Nick has said during this podcast, just edit it. He's gone.

Thomas Eckert: You're making it easier for me. That's not fair. That's not fair.

Mat Ryer: But that system for deciding I think is so random. Like, you might as well consult horoscopes, or something, Nick. Or get a crystal skull out.

Adam Stacoviak: That's right. [laughs]

Jerod Santo: Yeah. Or a pseudo random number generator, or something.

Adam Stacoviak: I saw the stars last night. I knew I was playing this game today, and so therefore it's three.

Thomas Eckert: Like 80% of the Changelog people are Pisces...

Mat Ryer: Is that right?

Thomas Eckert: Gerhard... Yeah.

Adam Stacoviak: A lot of Pisces, yeah.

Jerod Santo: Really? Adam, Amal, I think...

Mat Ryer: So do all those people have the same kind of day?

Adam Stacoviak: We have the same energy level. We vibe.

Thomas Eckert: Well, we do check in with each other. Yeah.

Mat Ryer: No, but I mean literally. Like, you read the horoscope and it's like "You're gonna have some financial luck this morning, and then maybe some romance in the evening." So all pisces are just having that same day, like some kind of distributed Groundhog day.

Adam Stacoviak: I haven't had that day in a while, so you know... I get the evening part, but not the -- no money in the morning.

Jerod Santo: You all read the same fortune cookie, and it just says "Defenestration."

Mat Ryer: Yeah. And everyone just jumps out.

Thomas Eckert: You all need to defenestrate -- is that defenestrate or be defenestrated?

Jerod Santo: Yeah, I mean, are you the subject or the object? Alright, Thomas... Ball's in your court here.

Thomas Eckert: Yeah, I'm gonna choose -- can you give me the exact definition on number two? I'm pretty sure it's number two.

Jerod Santo: A non-orientable surface, with no distinct inside or outside.

Thomas Eckert: Yeah... It's number two.

Jerod Santo: It's number two.

Adam Stacoviak: Jerod, you should choose. I mean, there's a better answer out there. You should choose one answer.

Thomas Eckert: [laughs] Just choose one.

Adam Stacoviak: If you were to choose an answer. I'm not saying that you would or you could... If you were to, which would you

choose?

Jerod Santo: If I was gonna choose one of these for the pure joy of it, I would probably choose a storage solution for Calvin's fetted wares. Even though I don't know what fetted means. But Calvin Klein. I mean, that's the joke?

Thomas Eckert: Yeah.

Nick Nisi: Fetted means smelly.

Jerod Santo: Okay. So I don't have the vocabulary that Nick does, but...

Adam Stacoviak: That's a good one.

Jerod Santo: I like that. And then I also liked Robert C. Klein. Because on that one, Mat just made up a false human, right? Mat, that was yours?

Thomas Eckert: No, that's Bobby Klein.

Mat Ryer: No, yeah, it's me in disguise. This is Bobby Klein.

Jerod Santo: Well, that took a turn...

Mat Ryer: [01:14:01.15] "Hey, everybody, it's Bobby Klein here, and I'm gonna tell you about our time-series algorithms...!" Is that too much? That's basically the sort of voice I went with...

Adam Stacoviak: Is that a pretty good impersonation of the person? Is that accurate?

Jerod Santo: No that's him, coming out.

Adam Stacoviak: Oh, okay.

Thomas Eckert: Yeah, you've got a couple different personalities in there.

Jerod Santo: So wait a minute... You put on this British accent the whole time, but this whole time you actually had that other voice, that was the real you?

Mat Ryer: Robert C. Klein's not the real me.

Adam Stacoviak: It's like Al Pacino mixed with something else. Isn't it, Jerod? Like, Al Pacino mixed with something... Do it again, Mat. One more time.

Mat Ryer: "I'm Robert C. Klein...! I'm not Al Pacinio, or Capuccinio, or whatever you said...!" It's that sort of thing. It's sort of like subtle... It's subtle, I think.

Jerod Santo: Say "I'm a fan of man."

Adam Stacoviak: That's right. Yell something.

Mat Ryer: "I'm a fan of man!"

Jerod Santo: Yeah, I can see some Al Pacino in there.

Mat Ryer: A little bit.

Jerod Santo: Yeah, a little bit.

Mat Ryer: I think Al Pacino got a lot of his talking from Robert C. Klein.

Jerod Santo: Well, he is getting old, so... I mean, there's some similarities there.

Adam Stacoviak: It's true.

Jerod Santo: Alright, Mat and Nick picked number three; that was a mathematical construct with finite volume and infinite surface area. hat was Thomas's, so two points for Thomas.

Thomas Eckert: Sorry... My bad.

Jerod Santo: Meanwhile, Thomas and Adam picked a non-orientable surface with no distinct inside or outside... That is a klein bottle, the correct answer. So --

Mat Ryer: Congrats.

Jerod Santo: ...two points for each of them.

Mat Ryer: It's good work.

Thomas Eckert: But Mat, good news - that does exist. It's called Gabriel's Horn. So all you need to go out to the store and buy a Gabriel's Horn.

Jerod Santo: Is that what that is?

Thomas Eckert: It has finite volume, and infinite surface area.

Mat Ryer: I wonder if they sell them on amazon.co.uk.

Thomas Eckert: You can get them in the US, but you can't get them in the UK.

Jerod Santo: One of those, huh?

Thomas Eckert: Because of Brexit. You could before Brexit.

Mat Ryer: You believe in a lot more stuff that can't exist in the US... [laughter]

Thomas Eckert: Let's not dig too deep into that one...

Jerod Santo: Moving forward... After seven crazy rounds, we have -- Thomas is in a position to win. He has 13 points. Remember, 15 or the end of the game. So he's right there on the precipice of a victory, ready to be defenestrated out the window. And Mat with 10. Adam, catching it up, has nine. Nick has nine.

Thomas Eckert: Nice.

Jerod Santo: So it's a tight game.

Adam Stacoviak: It's a tight game.

Jerod Santo: We have a few rounds left... We now move to round eight, which is called "How do you do, fellow humans?" In this round, I have asked ChatGPT a very specific thing. Your job is to be a fake ChatGPT, and answer my question exactly the way that ChatGPT would answer it. So what I have told ChatGPT is this phrase: "Make a fictional word that relates to STEM, and a single-sentence definition of the word." That's what I've asked it to do.

Mat Ryer: [laughs] It's insane that we have to guess...

Jerod Santo: Now, you must write the response to that particular command. And submit it to me now.

Mat Ryer: Quick follow-up on that one, Jerod... Do you think that's okay? Do you think this is okay, that you've asked us to do this? Because - what on Earth...? How are we gonna get this?

Jerod Santo: Do I think that it's okay? Like, existentially, or morally, or how do you mean?

Mat Ryer: Yeah.

Jerod Santo: Yes, I do.

Mat Ryer: Interesting.

Jerod Santo: To ask you to fake that you're a large language model?

Mat Ryer: Yeah, that bit I'm fine with.

Thomas Eckert: If they're going to take our jobs, we should take their jobs. It's only fair.

Jerod Santo: Right. This is kind of like a plug/pull kind of a move here.

Mat Ryer: Yeah. Just letting people text you [unintelligible 01:17:33.02]

Jerod Santo: We're fighting back.

Mat Ryer: That's basically what it is, yeah.

Jerod Santo: Now, I asked this to GPT 4.0. O stands for Omni. It did not respond with a picture, but I suppose it could have...

Thomas Eckert: Did it say "Hello, my name is Scarlett Johansson. I'm trapped in a GPT factory..."

Jerod Santo: No, it did not. I think they had to disable that module...

Thomas Eckert: They did.

Mat Ryer: They could have just gotten Robert C. Klein to do it. It would have been good if --

Thomas Eckert: He has a great voice...

Mat Ryer: Lovely, ain't it? It's one of those relaxing, kind of --

Jerod Santo: It's almost too alluring, though. I mean, it might have a lot of nerds falling in love...

Thomas Eckert: Yeah, that's the danger.

Mat Ryer: That's gonna happen anyway though, ain't it? We can't really be trusted with life...

Jerod Santo: No. We might just throw it out the window, you know?

Mat Ryer: [01:18:17.26] Can you read again, Jerod, the prompt -- oh, you actually shared that.

Jerod Santo: Yeah, I prompted it by saying "Make up a fictional word that relates to STEM, and a single-sentence definition of the word." And don't make it ductility. That word is dead to me. My ego is too brittle for ductility. Okay, I have Mat's, I have Thomas's, I have Nick's...

Thomas Eckert: But Mat, there is a Grafana dashboard internally that is your social score, as you say different things.

Mat Ryer: Yeah, yeah.

Jerod Santo: Internal at Grafana, or just in your house, Thomas?

Thomas Eckert: [unintelligible 01:18:50.09]

Mat Ryer: You can set up alerts now as well in Grafana Cloud... So if I say something bad, I get alerts going off. It's like "What are you doing?" It's good idea. It's a good system.

Thomas Eckert: Oh, no. I know that, because I just triggered a bunch of alerts at work.

Mat Ryer: I'm sure it's fine...

Thomas Eckert: Mm-hm... Testing in production.

Jerod Santo: Alright, I now have all of the fake ChatGPT responses...

Mat Ryer: Real responses...

Jerod Santo: Well, one of them's not pasting correctly. Hold on, give me a second...

Mat Ryer: These aren't artificial, are they? I don't understand, we're worried --

Thomas Eckert: What makes it artificial?

Mat Ryer: Well, these ones are real. These come from real intelligence.

Thomas Eckert: These are real lies. Farm to table lies.

Mat Ryer: Yeah. We haven't hallucinated these.

Jerod Santo: Non GMO, non GPU... [laughter] Alright, I told ChatGPT, I said "Listen up here, ChatGPT... Make up a fictional word that relates to STEM and a single-sentence definition of the word." Here are five potential responses. Number one, "Sourdac is the study of quantum mechanics where it intersects with microbiology." Number two, "Neuroquantimize - the process of encoding and manipulating neural information using quantum computing principles to achieve unprecedented processing speeds and accuracy." Number three, "Geostasis - the theoretical point at which a planet's rotation has ceased, due to the pull of nearby celestial bodies." Number four, "To create a word like this, you can use the dictionary to find a word related to STEM. I have selected singularity... [laughter] Which has several concepts to paint on the context. I have chosen to use the definition based on gravity becoming infinite. Inside a singularity lies the infinipoint. The infinipoint - a place in space-time where all points are compressed to a single point." And number five, "STEMist - a palindromic accolade describing those most adept at science, engineering and technology."

Thomas Eckert: Not a palindrome. [laughs] Not a palindrome there...

Jerod Santo: Palindromic [unintelligible 01:21:06.20]

Thomas Eckert: Palindromish...

Jerod Santo: Yeah, there you go.

Mat Ryer: There is a palindrome backwards. Have you heard of that? The word palindrome backwards is a word that is not a palindrome. Unofficially.

Thomas Eckert: Yeah, no, it should have been a palindromatic word.

Mat Ryer: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I guess it's a -- I don't know. Is it my turn?

Jerod Santo: Yes.

Mat Ryer: That long-winded one. The longest one does --

Jerod Santo: The infinipoint?

Mat Ryer: Yeah. I don't know. Because that could easily be also a troll. This is too hard...

Jerod Santo: That's the problem with this game, isn't it? But you're not going for the palindrome one?

Mat Ryer: I might go for that as well... If it's got that wrong, that does sound like --

Jerod Santo: Well, it's a fake definition anyways.

Nick Nisi: Yeah. But that's a very GPT thing...

Mat Ryer: ...mistake. But then so is the -- what was the singularity one?

Jerod Santo: That was the long one. The infinipoint.

Mat Ryer: [01:22:02.21] That's probably a troll, isn't it? Is it? Could it be a bluff?

Jerod Santo: Is that a rhetorical question?

Mat Ryer: I mean, if someone can answer and tell me if it's a bluff or not, I'll take it. But it was rhetorical.

Thomas Eckert: Jerod can tell you.

Mat Ryer: Alright, I don't know, so I'm gonna go for the neuroquantimize one, just because --

Jerod Santo: Neuroquantimize.

Mat Ryer: Yeah, just because I think that's cool. Whoever made that deserves a point.

Jerod Santo: Neuroquantimize. Alright, so that's Mat's. We go to Nick...

Nick Nisi: Kind of for similar thinking, I'm thinking that it's the long one, number four, because it failed to do the single-sentence thing... And that seems like a very GPT thing to do.

Mat Ryer: It could be a bluff though...

Jerod Santo: Alright, number four. That's the singularity one, the long one. And to Thomas...

Thomas Eckert: I'm thinking STEMist, because it makes sense that GPT would maybe like not fully understand the palindrome thing, and maybe not know what STEM means... So I think STEMist.

Jerod Santo: Alright, very good.

Adam Stacoviak: That was number two, right?

Jerod Santo: That was number five. And last is Adam.

Adam Stacoviak: What was number three again, Jerod?

Jerod Santo: Three was geostasis, the theoretical point at which a planet's rotation has ceased, due to the pull of nearby celestial bodies.

Adam Stacoviak: Huh.

Jerod Santo: But maybe it's just striking a pose, you know?

Adam Stacoviak: Maybe. What's one? One seemed off, but curious.

Jerod Santo: One was sourdac, the study of quantum mechanics where it intersects with microbiology.

Mat Ryer: Why that word though?

Mat Ryer: Sourdac.

Adam Stacoviak: Against my better judgment I'm gonna go with three.

Jerod Santo: Three is geostasis. Okay, I think we're all in then. Let's start right there. Geostasis, the theoretical point at which a planet strikes a pose. That was Thomas'es creation, so one point to Thomas.

Mat Ryer: Very good. I felt that was real.

Adam Stacoviak: Almost for the win.

Jerod Santo: Thomas went for STEMist, a palindromic, but not palindromish accolade, describing those most adept at science, engineering and technology. That was Mat's.

Thomas Eckert: Very nice, Mat.

Mat Ryer: Bluffs.

Jerod Santo: One point for him. Nick went for the long one... Which I won't read back, because it's long. But it had both the GPT metagame, as well as the correct or a version of the answer in there as well. And that was written by Adam.

Mat Ryer: Ah, such a good bluff.

Thomas Eckert: Genius, genius.

Mat Ryer: That's such a good bluff. That nearly had me.

Adam Stacoviak: I almost got it.

Jerod Santo: Adam knows very well how GPT replies... That was a great one. And Mat went with neuroquantimize, which was actually invented by ChatGPT 4.0 model. So Mat found it. Neuroquantimize.

Mat Ryer: I only picked that because I wanted that to be real. I don't really deserve that. But I'll take it.

Jerod Santo: I'll take my points back...

Mat Ryer: Points accepted.

Jerod Santo: Okay, you accept them. You're not denying them.

Thomas Eckert: You deserve it. You're a legend. Be treated like a legend.

Jerod Santo: Well, the legend is still in second place though. He has not achieved first. Thomas is in first, with 14, one point away from winning, but Mat's in striking distance; he has 13. He could definitely win this round. Adam with 10. Nick slipping into last, if you don't count me - which we don't - with nine points. We would count me if I was close to winning, but since I am not, we'll forget about it. Alright, we now move to round nine, which is a non-STEM round. Dun-dun-dun...!

Mat Ryer: Wow, that was good.

Nick Nisi: Time to shine.

Thomas Eckert: Sorry to all the STEMists out there...

Jerod Santo: Alright. And the word for round nine is chthonic.

Mat Ryer: Spelled?

Jerod Santo: [01:25:48.14] That's spelled chthonic, and it's pronounced chthonic.

Thomas Eckert: C-H-T-H...

Jerod Santo: O-N-I-C.

Thomas Eckert: There was a song about this in the '90s, I think. Chthonic.

Jerod Santo: Chthonic.

Thomas Eckert: This is the video game, Chthonic. Chthonic Adventures, Chthonic Knuckles...

Jerod Santo: No, you're thinking of --

Mat Ryer: Yeah, it's the --

Thomas Eckert: Chthonic Tales...

Mat Ryer: It's [unintelligible 01:26:11.11] Thega Series. It was on Thega MegaDrive originally.

Jerod Santo: Chthonic the Hedgehog.

Mat Ryer: Yeah, I remember that. We had that.

Adam Stacoviak: What is our objective, Jerod, in this round?

Jerod Santo: Just to define it.

Thomas Eckert: Thegaaaa.

Mat Ryer: Can someone harmonize with that for me, please? [Thegaaaa] There we go. Yeah. Put autotune on that, please.

Thomas Eckert: Do you just ask for autotune and it just happens?

Jerod Santo: That's what we call post-production.

Mat Ryer: Yeah, the editors are great.

Jerod Santo: We've got to get at least one more song out of Mat before this show is over... So guys, be thinking about something that we can prompt him with.

Thomas Eckert: Non-STEM.

Jerod Santo: Non-STEM. Yeah. Some things are stem, some things are non-STEM.

Mat Ryer: It's such a strange spelling of a word. I don't know any other word that's --

Jerod Santo: Chthonic.

Mat Ryer: Yeah. It sounds like a password.

Jerod Santo: Maybe it's Greek, or something.

Mat Ryer: Bloody hell... Greek again.

Thomas Eckert: You've exhausted all my Greek [unintelligible 01:27:11.09]

Jerod Santo: Although with Greek there'd be more k's involved.

Mat Ryer: Yeah, and you'd have to do some sums halfway through.

Jerod Santo: That c at the end would definitely be a k. Maybe we get Mat to sing a Thonic the Hedgehog Song...

Mat Ryer: A what song?

Jerod Santo: Thonic... [laughs] So far, I have zero definitions for chthonic.

Mat Ryer: Isn't it chthonic...?

Jerod Santo: They're having too much fun. They don't want the game to end.

Mat Ryer: ...don't you think?

Jerod Santo: Isn't it chthonic?

Mat Ryer: Yeah.

Jerod Santo: Not bad. If that was an Apple product, it'd be iChthonic.

Mat Ryer: Yup.

Jerod Santo: Here they come. Oh, they're all in.

Thomas Eckert: Here we're going.

Jerod Santo: Splash.

Thomas Eckert: You had to let them cook.

Jerod Santo: Alright. Aggregating, aggregating...

Adam Stacoviak: Is this your audible version of a spinning wheel?

Jerod Santo: Yes.

Adam Stacoviak: Or your pulsating dots...

Jerod Santo: Let me see what I can find on the web or chthonic.

Mat Ryer: I had a beach ball of death spinning, and then the beach ball itself crashed. And I was half expecting another smaller beach ball to appear next to it, just because [unintelligible 01:28:14.13] But yeah, it's bad when your beach ball's crashed as well.

Jerod Santo: Alright, all five definitions for chthonic. Number one, a colossal, terrifying creature with an octopus head, tentacles and a large scaled covered body with immense wings, often portrayed in mythos as an incomprehensible horror terrorizing wayward ships.

Adam Stacoviak: What...? There's so much detail. [laughs]

Jerod Santo: Number two, the taste that remains in your mouth after eating apples and bananas. Or is that bananas? I don't know. Number three, a therapy involving holding one's breath for increasing periods of time to help increase lung capacity. Number four, of or relating to the underworld. Number five, a literary device in which both a protagonist and their foil switch sides by the end of the plot. That's five definitions for chthonic. We start with Nick, because it rhymes with chthonic.

Mat Ryer: Does it?

Nick Nisi: I guess that's true...

Jerod Santo: It is.

Nick Nisi: There can be a song there.

Mat Ryer: Yeah, it's easy. It's easy to write that.

Nick Nisi: Can you... Repeat... Three and four, please?

Jerod Santo: Oh, boy... I would love to. Number three, a therapy involving holding one's breath for increasing periods of time to help increase lung capacity. Number four, of or relating to the underworld.

Nick Nisi: Any of those sound right...?

Thomas Eckert: You just picked both of them. [unintelligible 01:29:49.28]

Nick Nisi: Yeah.

Thomas Eckert: Ride the two, yeah.

Nick Nisi: I'll do...

Jerod Santo: Personal spread?

Nick Nisi: I'll do three.

Jerod Santo: Alright. Alright, Nick goes with three. That's the lung capacity one. We go to Thomas.

Thomas Eckert: [01:30:04.20] I'm also looking at those two, but I'm gonna zag. I'm gonna go to "Of or relating to the underworld."

Jerod Santo: Thomas goes to the underworld.

Thomas Eckert: Oh, thanks.

Jerod Santo: You did it. Adam.

Adam Stacoviak: I'm thinking of one or five. Give me one or five, Jerod.

Jerod Santo: Number one, a colossal, terrifying creature, with an octopus head, tentacles and a large scaled covered body with immense wings, often portrayed in mythos as an incomprehensible horror, terrorizing wayward ships.

Mat Ryer: If one of us on this call has come up with that, then -- do you know what I mean...?

Jerod Santo: I do know what you mean...

Mat Ryer: Good, because I didn't wanna finish the sentence --

Jerod Santo: [laughs]

Adam Stacoviak: One of us.

Jerod Santo: What do you mean?

Mat Ryer: I just can't believe that.

Jerod Santo: How do you mean?

Adam Stacoviak: And then how about five?

Jerod Santo: Five was a literary device in which both a protagonist and their foil switch sides by the end of the plot.

Adam Stacoviak: Hm.

Mat Ryer: They all sound so good, don't they? They all sound legit.

Jerod Santo: These are all pretty good definitions, I'm not gonna lie.

Adam Stacoviak: Remind me two again? Two had something to do with the bananas...

Thomas Eckert: Taste in your mouth, something with apples and bananas...

Adam Stacoviak: That sounds like maybe a Mat line.

Jerod Santo: The taste that remains after eating apples and bananas...

Adam Stacoviak: That's kind of chthonic, too. That could be chthonic. Because after you eat the apple and the banana, you're like... You've got that going on; like, it's a chthonic feeling. Let's go with number one. Whoever wrote that deserves some points.

Jerod Santo: Alright, number one then. That's good. And now we go to Mat, for the final selection.

Mat Ryer: Yeah, I kind of think that's such a good bluff... But also, I thought Adam did that long one...

Thomas Eckert: He could be picking his own.

Jerod Santo: To get a point?

Adam Stacoviak: It's not illegal.

Thomas Eckert: The person who came up with that deserves the points.

Jerod Santo: That could have been subliminal messaging.

Adam Stacoviak: That's right. "Deserves the points... Deserves the points... Give the points to number two...!"

Jerod Santo: I'm sorry, does anybody wanna change theirs?

Adam Stacoviak: "Number two... Go with number two...!" [laughter]

Mat Ryer: Am I the -- yeah, I'm the last one, aren't I?

Jerod Santo: Yeah, this is it, man.

Adam Stacoviak: "Number two is your selection... I'm giving it to you now..."

Mat Ryer: I love the short of the underworld one was written like a dictionary definition. But again, the others haven't been as much, so I think that's someone on here being a silly bugger, or a clever bugger, as I call it... I might just go geostasis, again... Just go for that one...

Thomas Eckert: Geostasis again... [laughs]

Jerod Santo: Well, you've definitely got the stasis part down...

Mat Ryer: It's tough. I'm gonna go with the plot one, because I love that. I love that there's a -- that's so good. Again, if someone's come up with that, it's great. But whoever did the first one I think needs help.

Thomas Eckert: [laughs]

Jerod Santo: Alright. Well, let's start with the plot one. The plot thickens with a literary device in which the protagonist and their foil switch sides by the end. Mat guessed it. Thomas wrote it. One point for Thomas.

Mat Ryer: Nice one, Thomas.

Jerod Santo: You may have remembered how many points he needed to begin with...

Thomas Eckert: Thank you.

Jerod Santo: He may be there. But does Mat score any points and beat him? That's the question. Next up, we go to a therapy involving holding one's breath. Don't hold your breath too long, Nick, because Mat wrote that...

Nick Nisi: Ahh...!

Jerod Santo: And so a point for Mat. The plot continues to thicken even more, as they're both now scoring points. The long one, which we all agree was the best written and the most interesting, and the handsomest of the group, that Adam selected, was written by the one and only Nick Nisi. Hey, Nick. Nice one, dude! Woo-hoo!

Thomas Eckert: Ahh, Nick Nisi...!

Adam Stacoviak: It's about time...!

Thomas Eckert: That's very well done!

Jerod Santo: In fact, I'm gonna give you a bonus point for that.

Thomas Eckert: Nice.

Jerod Santo: [01:33:45.00] Because you're gonna lose and the points don't matter. So if I give you a bonus point, it makes me look nice. [laughter] Okay. Finally, Thomas selected "Of or relating to the underworld..." You know, kind of like how Chthonic the Hedgehog goes under the ground...

Thomas Eckert: [unintelligible 01:33:57.09]

Jerod Santo: Yeah, that chthonic, "Of or relating to the underworld." So two points for him there, giving him three points for the round, giving him 17 total points and the victory. Congrats, Thomas! You win.

Thomas Eckert: That was beginner's luck. It was a joy to be here, and... Yes, thank you.

Adam Stacoviak: Somehow Nick beat me in the end, though...

Jerod Santo: Well, I have a couple of questions before we go into our congratulatory interview. My first question is, is a literary device in which both a protagonist and their foil switch sides by the end of the plot - is that a real literary device that you just renamed, or you just made it up?

Thomas Eckert: It could be. I thought of it...

Jerod Santo: Is their prior art? Does anybody know a story in which that happens?

Nick Nisi: Face Off. Nicolas Cage and John Travolta...

Thomas Eckert: Face Off, yeah...

Jerod Santo: Yeah, but that is the plot. I guess what do you mean by switch sides? Like, usually it's like the good guy becomes the bad guy, and the bad guy becomes the good guy. I mean, Face Off - it's just their faces that change though, right? It's a good example, Nick. I'll take it.

Thomas Eckert: Mm-hm. I like that.

Adam Stacoviak: Game of Thrones.

Jerod Santo: Who's the good guy in Game of Thrones?

Adam Stacoviak: What's his name - Lannister... And Cersei's brother. He was bad, then he was good, and then he was bad. He actually wasn't bad in the end. He just went from bad to good.

Jerod Santo: Hm...

Nick Nisi: If you don't count the last season.

Adam Stacoviak: Jamie is his name. Jamie Lannister.

Mat Ryer: Why are we spending all this time on it? Thomas completely just made it just.

Adam Stacoviak: He just went back to Cersei. He didn't really turn. He just walked away. He went back to love, not something else.

Thomas Eckert: Well, I can google it now. I wonder if there's a real word for it.

Jerod Santo: Yeah, google that, come back... To our listener out there, if you know of any films or stories or TV shows...

Adam Stacoviak: It's a definition that deserves a word to define it.

Jerod Santo: Yeah, I think Face Off is a pretty good example. My second question is for Mat. Mat, now that you know that chthonic rhymes with Nick, you also know it means "Of or pertaining to the underworld", you also know that you can give it a lisp and make it Sonic the Hedgehog... Can you come up with a song perhaps that combines all these elements into one melodious sonnet? [unintelligible 01:35:58.10] Or STEMist. [laughter]

Thomas Eckert: Mat the [unintelligible 01:36:02.13]

Mat Ryer: What key do you want it in, everybody?

Jerod Santo: F? E sharp? A minor?

Mat Ryer: E shar is F...

Jerod Santo: Don't make it a minor.

Mat Ryer: Don't make it minor. Okay, I know what I'm gonna do. Chthonic is how you pronounce it, is that right?

Jerod Santo: Chthonic. You got it. Or Super-Chthonic, if you wanna go... [laughs]

[01:36:27.01]

I like to play games on my fake Omega drive... I like to be the same as the characters on my fake Omega drive...

I'm like a little hedgehog spinning around and round... Going on all around, getting coins from underground...

Even though I know it, I've gotta get Mr. Doctor Bionic or whatever his name the baddie from Chthonic...

And isn't it i-chthonic...? Don't you think? A little too i-chthonic... Yeah...! I really do think...

I'm going down, down, down, down... Underground...! Down, down, down, down... Underground! I'm going down, down, down.... Underground! I'm going down, down, down... Sing along if you know it! Is Chthonic... It's just Chthonic... It's just -- I don't know, Chthonic... And it's got a CH at the start of the word, which you don't need... Get rid of it!

Mat Ryer: [01:38:24.13] There we go.

Jerod Santo: [laughs]

Thomas Eckert: That's great.

Nick Nisi: It's the new bedtime story. Or song.

Mat Ryer: Play that to your kids.

Nick Nisi: Lullaby.

Jerod Santo: That was iconic.

Mat Ryer: Iconic...!

Jerod Santo: Oh, you should have put that in.

Mat Ryer: Yeah, [unintelligible 01:38:36.00] but I closed Chrome, didn't I?

Jerod Santo: Aww...! Classic mistake. Alright, thank you, Mat. I like when you said "Sing it with us if you know the words", and you were saying "Down, down, down" so I figured that's what we've gotta do, and then you [unintelligible 01:38:53.13] Chthonic, you know?

Mat Ryer: I said "Sing along if you know it", which you don't.

Thomas Eckert: We didn't know the words, so...

Jerod Santo: We thought we did though. That's our part. Yeah. It really made that difficult for us, for so many reasons... But we still appreciate it.

Mat Ryer: Yeah. But I just want to say one thing though as well... I am also a professional, so if you work with me, I am also a grown up. I just want to put that out there.

Jerod Santo: That's a good disclaimer.

Thomas Eckert: Yeah. And that your Grafana dashboard just went up a little bit.

Mat Ryer: Great. Thank you. That's what I need.

Jerod Santo: The legend continues. Alright. Well, Thomas wins, like we said, and so we always allow our winner to take a moment and speak to the audience. If you have anything to talk about, you can plug stuff, you could brag some more, you could donate money to a cause, if you have any morality... You can do whatever you wanted to.

Thomas Eckert: Well, my own money, donate it in public?

Jerod Santo: That would make you look good...

Thomas Eckert: Yeah, but then that makes it not so altruistic, doesn't it? [laughs]

Jerod Santo: Well, don't tell us about it.

Thomas Eckert: So we're gonna pause the podcast, and I'm gonna go give money to a good cause, and then come back. You'll just have to know that I did it, but don't think about the fact that I did it, and don't give me any kind of social credit for doing that.

Jerod Santo: Exactly. Good. I'm glad we got that covered.

Thomas Eckert: This is tricky. I see why podcasting is so difficult. I will plug a project I've been working on called Devy, in part because once I've plugged it, I will have to go and get it into a shape that people can come and use it. But the idea here is that you can connect a GitHub repository and publish blog posts in Markdown, and just keep pushing to that GitHub repository... Kind of like a Substack for developers, using GitHub as the CMS. It's an idea I've been playing around with for about a year now, and I'm ready to get some people on it. This is for early, early adopter type of people who don't mind finding bugs, and yelling at me about them... And I would appreciate that. So come yell at me. Go check out Devy.page and let me know what you think.

Jerod Santo: Is that Devy like D-E-V-Y, or how does that work?

Thomas Eckert: D-E-V-Y.

Jerod Santo: Oh, I got it. Alright, Devy.page. The .com was too expensive for a side project.

Jerod Santo: You couldn't get the whole website, you just got one page. So you have .page.

Thomas Eckert: .page. That's your page.

Jerod Santo: You should have got .pages, and then you could have had...

Thomas Eckert: .pages... That's not a TLD yet.

Jerod Santo: That would have been expensive then, I guess...

Adam Stacoviak: It could be if you put .page/s.

Thomas Eckert: /s. That might be the solution here, is to [unintelligible 01:41:37.11]

Jerod Santo: Or .pag, and then get the /es. Then you'd have pages.

Thomas Eckert: Is that Spanish, or...?

Mat Ryer: This is my first .page website, actually. I've never been to a .page before. Have you?

Thomas Eckert: [01:41:51.19] It's 10 bucks a month, so...

Jerod Santo: The price is right. Get them while you can. Get them while you can.

Mat Ryer: I don't want that one.

Thomas Eckert: I think devy.com was -- no, no, no, no, you don't have to, but it's good to collect as many domains as you can...

Mat Ryer: That's basically what I'm doing, yeah.

Thomas Eckert: Yes, yes...

Jerod Santo: I'm starting to think this entire thing is just Thomas secretly running the .page TLD, and trying to get people to register.

Thomas Eckert: That's the real money. During the gold rush, you want to sell the pick axes, so...

Jerod Santo: Exactly. That'd be cool, an open source thing published with GitHub, and the only thing is you have to publish to a .page, you know? And then you just sell .pages.

Thomas Eckert: I don't know how you would control that, .pages. Yeah, exactly.

Jerod Santo: Just an idea.

Thomas Eckert: That's how you capture the market. This is good. We can have a little bit of a kind of [unintelligible 01:42:37.20] advisors.

Jerod Santo: We're workshopping this as we speak.

Thomas Eckert: Consultants. Workshop it, yeah.

Jerod Santo: Very cool. So check that out. Good job, Thomas. Way to be both a newcomer and the winner... I mean, Adam, I don't know if you have anything to say for yourself...

Adam Stacoviak: Being the lowest?

Jerod Santo: Well, no, I wasn't gonna say that. Just not winning. I mean... [laughs]

Adam Stacoviak: Oh.

Jerod Santo: Remember, you're the one who's played this game a few times.

Adam Stacoviak: I know. It is a challenging game to win, honestly.

Jerod Santo: It is hard. You've only got a one in four chance.

Adam Stacoviak: You really do. I mean, you have to fool people, but you also have to know things.

Jerod Santo: Right. I think that's how Thomas won, because he knew so many of the physics stuff.

Mat Ryer: That's cheating, I think.

Thomas Eckert: Sorry... Yeah, I think maybe I need to --

Jerod Santo: I didn't see that coming... And I'm definitely not inviting him back...

Thomas Eckert: Don't, yeah... Please...

Jerod Santo: [laughs]

Nick Nisi: We all beat Jerod, and that's the important thing.

Jerod Santo: I was shut out. I mean, I almost scored some points, until we realized the big flop...

Thomas Eckert: Defenestration, yeah.

Jerod Santo: So it was all-around a frustrating game for me... Also, Nick was here, which also adds to my frustration. Nick, what are your thoughts on #define, your finishing near the bottom...? Anything else you'd like to say?

Nick Nisi: I'm not near the bottom. What's that like, Jerod?

Jerod Santo: Well, let's see... You do have 11 points.

Mat Ryer: Scores, did you say them?

Jerod Santo: Which is -- probably not. Thomas had 17. Mat was in second with 14. Nick took third with 11, and Adam was in last with 10.

Thomas Eckert: No, Adam was not in last.

Jerod Santo: Well, what do you mean?

Thomas Eckert: Jerod was in last. [laughter]

Jerod Santo: I'm just the moderator.

Thomas Eckert: If you can win, you can lose.

Jerod Santo: Well, I didn't even play. How can you lose not having played? I don't understand your logic. Your illogical. Mat, what do you think? Do you like this game?

Mat Ryer: Um, I like it had words in it, and then you have to make up the definition of the words, and then you have to guess what each other's ones are... And if you get it right, you get two points. And then if you're fooled by someone...

Jerod Santo: Are you just showing me how I should have explained it at the beginning? Is that what you're doing?

Mat Ryer: That's the bit I like about it.

Jerod Santo: Yeah. The rules.

Mat Ryer: I also liked the mistake. I think that was probably the most exciting bit of the podcast, when you made that mistake.

Jerod Santo: I liked how nobody believed me at first. Thomas had this dumbfounded look on his face... Like "No, seriously. I really did mess it up." [laughter]

Nick Nisi: I like how it naturally just brings in the AI elements, so that we don't have to talk about it, or reluctantly talk about it... It's just there. And you get it out of the way.

Jerod Santo: It's just part of our lives now. Yeah. Embrace it, is that what you're saying?

Nick Nisi: Yeah.

Adam Stacoviak: Well, speaking of AI...

Jerod Santo: Oh, gosh...

Adam Stacoviak: Round number eight. My definition. I mean, that was gold, right?

Jerod Santo: That was a good one.

Thomas Eckert: That was good. Yeah, that was really good.

Jerod Santo: You did a good job of actually sounding like it.

Adam Stacoviak: Read it again, Jerod. Go ahead.

Jerod Santo: Read it again. You want me to read it again?

Adam Stacoviak: Just for fun.

Jerod Santo: Well, this was the "How do you do, fellow humans?" round, in which Adam wrote: "To create a word like this, you can use a dictionary to find a word related to STEM. I have selected singularity, which has several concepts depending on the context. I've chosen to use the definition based on gravity becoming infinite. Inside of singularity lies the infinipoint, a place in space-time where all points are compressed to a single point."

Mat Ryer: Is this singularity?

Adam Stacoviak: Honestly, I should get like at least seven bonus points.

Jerod Santo: At least seven...? [laughs] He's trying to negotiate a win here. And Thomas already gave his plug.

Adam Stacoviak: That's what would tie me for first.

Jerod Santo: We can't negotiate a win for you.

Thomas Eckert: You could edit it out. And then Adam, do you have a podcast you want to plug?

Adam Stacoviak: There's a show out there I think that's pretty awesome, and it's called Oxide & Friends. I was just on it. I think it's coming out this week, or next week... I'm not sure when. We were talking about Silicon Valley.

Jerod Santo: [01:46:12.10] Oh, gosh...

Adam Stacoviak: A lot.

Thomas Eckert: That's not surprising.

Jerod Santo: Hard pass. Hard pass.

Adam Stacoviak: There was a little bit of love for you sprinkled in there, Jerod. You might wanna listen.

Jerod Santo: Ohh. Can you give me a transcript?

Adam Stacoviak: I didn't run the show though, so I couldn't control the topic.

Jerod Santo: Of course.

Thomas Eckert: Well, when Bryan came on, he talked about Silicon Valley, so...

Jerod Santo: Well, of course.

Adam Stacoviak: Yeah, but I didn't let him talk too much about it, purposefully. I didn't go deep. I could have gone further in, but...

Jerod Santo: Was Jessie on that show, Jessie Frazelle? She's one of the Oxide founders, right?

Adam Stacoviak: It was Adam Leventhal, and...

Mat Ryer: Jessie was a consultant on Silicon Valley.

Jerod Santo: Is that right?

Adam Stacoviak: Yeah, she was.

Jerod Santo: Yeah, that sounds right.

Adam Stacoviak: I was discussing the show.

Jerod Santo: Yeah, that's awesome.

Thomas Eckert: Wow.

Mat Ryer: I mean, genuinely, it was on when we were in a startup incubator in Sunnyvale, in California, and it was too real that we genuinely couldn't watch it. I hear people like to say about The Office, they're like "Oh, I couldn't watch it, because it's so cringy." But I'm like "Grow up." But this genuinely -- I couldn't do it. The same things were happening, but it was going better in Silicon Valley. And I think when it's going better in a comedy show than it is in real life, you're gonna have to take a step back and reevaluate.

Adam Stacoviak: Lots were skipped in there, yeah... But we talked about other things too, but that was a lot of it. I would say probably 50%. Maybe 40%... But only because it kept going back there, and it wasn't always me. I promise. And they want to borrow the ding for the show.

Jerod Santo: Oh, they can borrow the ding.

Adam Stacoviak: They love the ding.

Thomas Eckert: Yeah, the ding works well.

Jerod Santo: The ding does work well.

Adam Stacoviak: And maybe even the spooler horn too, because I spoiled a couple things.

Thomas Eckert: Nuclei.

Jerod Santo: Nuclei, the center of your issues.

Adam Stacoviak: That was a good one.

Jerod Santo: I'll say, Nick wrote some good definitions, even though he finished near the bottom - I'll just keep reminding him that... The Nuclei definition was good, and the last one was spectacular. The monster, the horror --

Nick Nisi: It started with ch, and I was thinking a cthulhu.

Jerod Santo: Yeah. Good thought. Good thoughts. Good times.

Adam Stacoviak: Yeah. Very thoughtful answers all around. This was a solid round.

Jerod Santo: Solid cast.

Thomas Eckert: The game changes so fundamentally depending on who's playing. You've got different play styles, you've got people who want to go for the funny ones, and...

Jerod Santo: Right. Yeah, Mat played it straighter than I thought he would. He had a real good one with the banana, but beyond that, it was pretty --

Mat Ryer: I was coming to just be an absolute --

Adam Stacoviak: I tried to bring the banana back...

Mat Ryer: I was trying to be an idiot, and I did alright early on --

Jerod Santo: You were trying to be an idiot?

Mat Ryer: I thought "I've got a chance here." Yeah, so I got --

Jerod Santo: You couldn't keep it up.

Mat Ryer: [unintelligible 01:48:40.01] Foolish. But no, it was very fun.

Adam Stacoviak: With "Chthonic is a taste that remains in your mouth after eating apples and bananas..."

Mat Ryer: Honestly, all of them were very good definitions. It was hard.

Thomas Eckert: Yeah.

Jerod Santo: It's gotta be tough... Sitting over here with the actual answers for me it's always easier, because I'm just staring at the right stuff, but...

Mat Ryer: Easy for you, does it, Jerod? How so?

Thomas Eckert: Yeah, I guess [unintelligible 01:49:02.16]

Mat Ryer: Oh yeah, I suppose if you've got -- oh, I see. So if you've got the answers...

Jerod Santo: That's why I'm not playing. I can't play. I know all the answers.

Mat Ryer: Well, you should have at least scored better then. At least. If not...

Jerod Santo: [laughs] I almost scored some points. Alright, let's somehow land the helicopter. The last thing we have to do is say - well, if you like #define, let us know; we'd love to hear from you. We can play future games. You can submit your own words. I had a few listeners submit words. They just didn't quite cut the mustard. You know, they've gotta be great. They've gotta be amazing.

Mat Ryer: They gotta be.

Jerod Santo: Also, graviton - not great. Three of you knew what it was... So even I didn't cut the mustard on that one. You know...

Mat Ryer: We don't have physics masters.

Jerod Santo: That's true.

Mat Ryer: You know what I mean?

Jerod Santo: So no cheating...

Thomas Eckert: Yeah. Which actually means that I kind of wasted my time. I got a year and a half that I kind of -- I'm just never getting back.

Mat Ryer: We should each just get a masters now, probably, because...

Jerod Santo: Like an honorary?

Thomas Eckert: That's true, too. I can send you guys one. Once you have one, you can just copy and make a new one, so I'll send you guys all copies...

Jerod Santo: Just copy paste that thing.

Thomas Eckert: ...of the physics master's degree, yeah.

Jerod Santo: Fair. There are other #define game shows in our feed. This is our third time playing this particular game. If you want us to play it more, let us know. If you like other games, we have Gophers Say, we have Frontend Feud, we JS Danger... Those are also in the feed. They also can be found under the topic "games" on our website, Changelog.com/topics/games. There you'll find every game show we've ever played for your listening pleasure.

Alright, that's all for now. I guess all we have to do now is say "Bye, friends."

Adam Stacoviak: Bye, friends.

Thomas Eckert: Bye, friends.

Mat Ryer: Friends...! Hash Define...

Nick Nisi: Bye...