"x" in 0xFF is confusing

[jansindl3r]

>>> hex(1234)
'0x4d2'

returns something that looks not like 0x4d2 but 0×4d2. You are not solving anything with this substitution, you changed meaning of the content.

[j-f1]

I disagree. To me, it makes it look nicer when the x is centered.

[jansindl3r]

@j-f1 why should letter x be displayed as a mathematical operator ×? I don't understand

[jansindl3r]

maybe there can be feature changing for to while or def to lambda, it would be way cooler! or what about mapping a-z to z-a?

[j-f1]

Unlike those examples, the x → × translation occurs only around numbers. It’s a consequence of the style where 50x50 is translated to 50×50.

[jansindl3r]

@j-f1 so what about the hex example then, or url? Or in what language is this useful? Is there one where you write 50x50 and expect those number to multiply? I believe it is confusing in when you change meaning of a glyph. I was very confused when seeing such hex value

[tonsky]

You are not solving anything with this substitution, you changed meaning of the content.

In 50×50 it does exactly what it is supposed to do: shows multiplication where programmers are too lazy to reach for a proper unicode.

In '0x4d2' it is used to show that this combination of characters has a special meaning. I agree that hex numbers and multiplications are two different use-cases, but it was not me who chose to write hex numbers using X. I’m just playing along. If I could, I’d replace it with 4d2₁₆ but that does not seem feasible.

[yvvt0379]

But I think centered x looks more balanced visually.

[jansindl3r]

@BornForFever sure it is. But I have been still wondering, can you give me a single use case? Where do people need to write number x number and see it pretty? Is such a syntax used in some language for multiplications? The thing is, you don't know where else it can appear and in what combination. I design and produce fonts. You wouldn't think of letter combinations like gg and gj, but hygge and gjort in Danish – there it is. [0-9]x[0-9] can appear in url slugs, nicknames, api key, passwords. All those can have such combination. It only creates confusion. I don't personally mind anymore, because of this I changed to other font, but I don't think that it is right.

[RubenVerg]

Use case: documentation.
Use case: (in scala) I kinda hate using *s as multiplications, but using × every single time is a mess. I prefer x, which also renders nicely.
Use case: math, where you can't use * as × because it's wrong.

[jansindl3r]

It's important to understand that ligatures don't change the input, it only renders differently only on your screen.

• Did you mean it is benefitial for documentations? Or I should look into Fira's documentation? I think that the first: x renders as × only in documentation of those who have Fira installed, or those who have a font having the same ligatures. Documentation should be understandable for those who are not that experienced yet, therefore such documentation without Fira installed using x for math would look even more confusing than when using just *

• Ok

• Why would mathematicians or anyone use monospaced font for writing down math formulas? And again, you write formula 9x9=81 in your computer looking like 9×9=81, other people who don't have Fira will see 9x9=81.

• would't it make more sense then to make ligature 9*9 -> 9×9, 9 * 9 -> 9 × 9?

[RubenVerg]

also, imo looks really cool :)

[RubenVerg]

the 'x' is for hex, and rendering it centered, as part of the numbers, is correct imo

[dalepsmith]

I'm getting the x and 0xFF cases inverted.

I like the 0×FF style.

[RubenVerg]

that's unexpected, tho.

[bradleyscollins]

I've got to register agreement with @jansindl3r on this one: 0×f00d is confusing.

By and large, I love ligatures. I just find this one to be an unnecessary mental speedbump:

Example	Disposition
1920×1080	👍 Reads smoothly; communicates intent
0×a5a5	👎 Jarring; at first blush, appears to communicate dimensions instead of hex

[seqizz]

Sorry for necrobumping a bit, but I wanted to provide another example after getting confused for a second:

Just to say it doesn't "look cool" every time. Above example is a confusing mess imho, some xs shrinked, some not.

What would be really cool is, having this configurable somehow, not sure how though, via harfbuzz feature maybe.