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Sega Saturn VA 0.8 USA is compatible with Saroo? #35

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atds55 opened this issue Dec 2, 2023 · 66 comments
Open

Sega Saturn VA 0.8 USA is compatible with Saroo? #35

atds55 opened this issue Dec 2, 2023 · 66 comments

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@atds55
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atds55 commented Dec 2, 2023 •
edited

I've been having some problems with Saroo on my VA 0.8 USA. The saroo is on firmware 231125, FPGA 05. But the same problem occurred with firmware 231111, FPGA 05. The revision of my saroo is 1.32F.
King of Fighters 96 and 97 have a problem with the sound FX, after some fights the sound has a problem.
Another problem I have is that after leaving some games for about 2 hours and 30 minutes to run alone, they freeze. This happened in Metal Slug, Garou Desetsu 3 (Fatal Fury 3) and Dungeons Dragons Shadow Over Mystara. But I left Groove on Fight running for 3 hours and it worked well, there were no problems.
So I would like to know if anyone else with VA 0 USA has these problems or if any Saroo developers confirm that VA 0.8 USA is not fully compatible with Saroo.

Kof96.saroo.231125.mp4
KOF96.-.Saroo.231125.mp4
KOF97.-.2.-.Saroo.mp4
Garou.Densetsu.3.-.saroo_.mp4
dungeons.dragons.shadow.over.mystara.saroo_1.mp4
@tzmwx
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tzmwx commented Dec 2, 2023

Is the motherboard VA0.8?
What is the BIOS version?

@atds55
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atds55 commented Dec 2, 2023

Is the motherboard VA0.8? What is the BIOS version?

Yes, the board is VA 0.8.
The bios version is 1.00a.

va08
menu1

@TheUndertakerPoland
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TheUndertakerPoland commented Dec 3, 2023 •
edited

I have exactly same problem. I have PAL console. I have saroo from paradise shop from ali. Legit version 25.11.2023 software. In plenty games sound glitches. Like wwf wrestlemania, mortal kombat trilogy, ultimate mortal kombat3, I was thinking maybe sd card is crap but inhave tested lexar, samsung, and all recommended and same issues mainly with sound glitiching. I'll check my bios version and will let you know.
Update. I have checked and my bios is
pal-c-v1.01a

@atds55
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atds55 commented Dec 5, 2023

I managed to finish King of Fighters 96 once without having any problems with the game's audio.
I added it to saroocf.txt to run the kof96 game with sector_delay=8000, and that way I was able to finish the game once without any audio problems. Then I will try to finish the game again.

@TheUndertakerPoland
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Ok thanks, I think it might be related with mobo revision. Defo not bios because I have most popular one 1.01

@TheUndertakerPoland
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TheUndertakerPoland commented Dec 5, 2023 •
edited

I managed to finish King of Fighters 96 once without having any problems with the game's audio. I added it to saroocf.txt to run the kof96 game with sector_delay=8000, and that way I was able to finish the game once without any audio problems. Then I will try to finish the game again.

My king of fighters 96 works without any problems. Most problem I have with wwf wrestlemania and mortal kombat games

Update... I have opened my saturn for few min and looks like it is va0 revision like yours. So might be related.

I have ENR-007B cdrom and looks they went just with first rev

@TheUndertakerPoland
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TheUndertakerPoland commented Dec 7, 2023 •
edited

I managed to finish King of Fighters 96 once without having any problems with the game's audio. I added it to saroocf.txt to run the kof96 game with sector_delay=8000, and that way I was able to finish the game once without any audio problems. Then I will try to finish the game again.

Could you check guardian hero's. ? I have glitches almost instant after start playing, update I have same glitches in KOF96 like you after few min on playing

Another update. I have ran guardian hero's second time and now it is fine. Looks like problem is inconsistent. Only game when I have always glitches is wwf wrestlemania

@atds55
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atds55 commented Mar 27, 2024

@tzmwx
Could this be the saroo problem with my Saturn VA 0.8?
With fenrir, this console works perfectly even with games that use a 1MB or 4MB cartridge. The action replay and save cartridge also work well.
Thank you for your attention.

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5fke46A
ccc
jda

@czapa86
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czapa86 commented Apr 7, 2024

Same sound glitches on japanese va0 motherboard

@tzmwx
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tzmwx commented Apr 9, 2024 •
edited

I've been having some problems with Saroo on my VA 0.8 USA. The saroo is on firmware 231125, FPGA 05. But the same problem occurred with firmware 231111, FPGA 05. The revision of my saroo is 1.32F. King of Fighters 96 and 97 have a problem with the sound FX, after some fights the sound has a problem. Another problem I have is that after leaving some games for about 2 hours and 30 minutes to run alone, they freeze. This happened in Metal Slug, Garou Desetsu 3 (Fatal Fury 3) and Dungeons Dragons Shadow Over Mystara. But I left Groove on Fight running for 3 hours and it worked well, there were no problems. So I would like to know if anyone else with VA 0 USA has these problems or if any Saroo developers confirm that VA 0.8 USA is not fully compatible with Saroo.

Kof96.saroo.231125.mp4
KOF96.-.Saroo.231125.mp4
KOF97.-.2.-.Saroo.mp4
Garou.Densetsu.3.-.saroo_.mp4
dungeons.dragons.shadow.over.mystara.saroo_1.mp4

1.Currently, Saroo does not accept changing games after resetting the console. If you need to change games, it is recommended to use the power on/off mode.

2.I hope you can use my method to test KOF96: Use tape to remove the pin 4.5.6 in the lower right corner of the Saroo motherboard (pin 7.8.9... Saroo does not use these pins, you can paste it off), and then insert it Saturn is running KOF96. The game will have no background music (CD audio track) and only hit sound effects. Please test whether there will be broken sound effects.
IMG_5389
IMG_5391

@atds55
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atds55 commented Apr 9, 2024 •
edited

I've been having some problems with Saroo on my VA 0.8 USA. The saroo is on firmware 231125, FPGA 05. But the same problem occurred with firmware 231111, FPGA 05. The revision of my saroo is 1.32F. King of Fighters 96 and 97 have a problem with the sound FX, after some fights the sound has a problem. Another problem I have is that after leaving some games for about 2 hours and 30 minutes to run alone, they freeze. This happened in Metal Slug, Garou Desetsu 3 (Fatal Fury 3) and Dungeons Dragons Shadow Over Mystara. But I left Groove on Fight running for 3 hours and it worked well, there were no problems. So I would like to know if anyone else with VA 0 USA has these problems or if any Saroo developers confirm that VA 0.8 USA is not fully compatible with Saroo.
Kof96.saroo.231125.mp4
KOF96.-.Saroo.231125.mp4
KOF97.-.2.-.Saroo.mp4
Garou.Densetsu.3.-.saroo_.mp4
dungeons.dragons.shadow.over.mystara.saroo_1.mp4

1.Currently, Saroo does not accept changing games after resetting the console. If you need to change games, it is recommended to use the power on/off mode.

2.I hope you can use my method to test KOF96: Use tape to remove the pin 4.5.6 in the lower right corner of the Saroo motherboard (pin 7.8.9... Saroo does not use these pins, you can paste it off), and then insert it Saturn is running KOF96. The game will have no background music (CD audio track) and only hit sound effects. Please test whether there will be broken sound effects. IMG_5389 IMG_5391

I placed the tape in the indicated pins in the same way as you showed in the second photo, and that way I didn't have any problems with the kof96's sound effect. I finished kof96 twice and kof97 once and I had no problem with the sound effect when putting on tape as you indicated.

@atds55
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atds55 commented Apr 26, 2024

Hello. @tzmwx
Did you manage to discover anything with the duct tape test?
Thank you for your attention.

@tzmwx
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tzmwx commented May 1, 2024

Hello. @tzmwx Did you manage to discover anything with the duct tape test? Thank you for your attention.

Perhaps it is because the external audio i2s data cable of the early SS motherboard was too close to the scspclk clock line, which may not be able to solve or may require modification of the motherboard to solve the problem.

https://youtu.be/dFbKYMtq3wE?si=qEavJywi40w9-Epi

@tzmwx
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tzmwx commented May 5, 2024

Hello. @tzmwx Did you manage to discover anything with the duct tape test? Thank you for your attention.

If you are interested, you can test it according to my method: remove the CD board and use tape to shield the gold finger B6 according to the diagram Any pin, according to the width of the tape, other pins do not matter, ensure B5 is connected to the motherboard.

Reinstall the small board back into the motherboard for testing.
Note that the optical drive cannot be used at this time

IMG_5642
IMG_5643

@atds55
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atds55 commented May 7, 2024

@tzmwx
I will carry out the test.
I cut a thin piece of tape and covered only the B6 gold finger, and noticed that the access LED stopped working.
Can I cover just B6 or do I need to cover other pins?

@tzmwx
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tzmwx commented May 7, 2024 •
edited

@atds55
The actual purpose is to cover B7. I said above that starting from B6 is to effectively stick to B7.

@atds55
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atds55 commented May 7, 2024

@atds55 The actual purpose is to cover B7. I said above that starting from B6 is to effectively stick to B7.

Now I think I've covered the B7 (gold finger) pin right.
Thanks.

image

@tzmwx tzmwx mentioned this issue May 7, 2024
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@tzmwx
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tzmwx commented May 8, 2024

@atds55 The actual purpose is to cover B7. I said above that starting from B6 is to effectively stick to B7.

Now I think I've covered the B7 (gold finger) pin right. Thanks.

image

Have you tested it? Has the problem disappeared?

@atds55
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atds55 commented May 8, 2024

@atds55O objetivo real é cobrir B7. Eu disse acima que começar em B6 é efetivamente aderir a B7.

Agora acho que cobri o pino B7 (dedo de ouro) corretamente. Obrigado.
imagem

Você já testou? O problema desapareceu?

Yes, I tested.
I played king of fighters 96 and 97 for a few hours yesterday and today and there were practically no audio problems. There was only a noise like a whistle in the last boss of King of Fighters 96, but this only happened three times, but when loading the next round of the fight, the noise disappeared and the sound returned to normal. But I finished king of fighters 96 2 more times and that noise didn't appear again.

I recorded a video showing the whistle-like noise that occurred in the last boss, but which disappeared when loading the next round. In other parts of the game this did not occur and the game worked perfectly. And as I said before, this only happened 3 times, the other times I faced the boss it didn't happen and the audio worked perfectly.

kof.96.test.b7+.mp4

Thank you for your help.

@tzmwx
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tzmwx commented May 8, 2024

@atds55O objetivo real é cobrir B7. Eu disse acima que começar em B6 é efetivamente aderir a B7.

Agora acho que cobri o pino B7 (dedo de ouro) corretamente. Obrigado.
imagem

Você já testou? O problema desapareceu?

Yes, I tested. I played king of fighters 96 and 97 for a few hours yesterday and today and there were practically no audio problems. There was only a noise like a whistle in the last boss of King of Fighters 96, but this only happened three times, but when loading the next round of the fight, the noise disappeared and the sound returned to normal. But I finished king of fighters 96 2 more times and that noise didn't appear again.

I recorded a video showing the whistle-like noise that occurred in the last boss, but which disappeared when loading the next round. In other parts of the game this did not occur and the game worked perfectly. And as I said before, this only happened 3 times, the other times I faced the boss it didn't happen and the audio worked perfectly.

kof.96.test.b7+.mp4

Thank you for your help.

ok
Are you or your friend proficient in using a soldering iron?

@atds55
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atds55 commented May 8, 2024

Depending on the type of welding, I can do it.

@tzmwx
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tzmwx commented May 8, 2024

Depending on the type of welding, I can do it.

test：
Restore B7, remove C47 （capacitance）

@atds55
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atds55 commented May 9, 2024

Depending on the type of welding, I can do it.

test： Restore B7, remove C47 （capacitance）

I don't know if I'll be able to do the capacitor test now, it might take me a while to do it. But if I do, I'll post the result here.
Thanks again for the help.

@TheUndertakerPoland
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TheUndertakerPoland commented May 9, 2024 •
edited

So using tape on saroo cart mean it is same like using tape under this small motherboard in old version of motherboard?

Update

I did trick with tape on SAROO AND PROBLEM WITH GLICHING DISAPPEARED

BUT AUDIO MUSIC NOT WORKING
Do you have any idea how to get audio working ? But sound effects are fine now....

@NoName141203
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So using tape on saroo cart mean it is same like using tape under this small motherboard in old version of motherboard?

Update

I did trick with tape on SAROO AND PROBLEM WITH GLICHING DISAPPEARED

BUT AUDIO MUSIC NOT WORKING Do you have any idea how to get audio working ? But sound effects are fine now....

adding tape to the SAROO only blocks CDDA which is causing those sound glitches (since it makes interference with the SCSPCLK), while taping the motherboard seems to fix the interference causing glitches according to atds55's results

@tzmwx
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tzmwx commented May 11, 2024

adding tape to the SAROO only blocks CDDA which is causing those sound glitches

The following method can retain AUDIO MUSIC, but you need to disassemble the shell.

The second method: use tape to remove the B7 pin of the Saturn motherboard optical drive port（See the discussion above,atds55 tested）

The third method: you need to use a soldering iron to remove the C47 capacitor on the Saturn motherboard.

The fourth method: cut off the clock line with unreasonable wiring.

@TheUndertakerPoland
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This solution with tape under small motherboard working in 100% thanks very much, all sound glitches not exist anymore and audio working without issues. Thanks a lot for that easy solution

@NoName141203
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I also tried the solution with tape on the motherboard
Although I still got sound glitches on Final Fight Revenge and Advanced VG, but I didn't encounter sound glitches in any other game so far

@TheUndertakerPoland
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I also tried the solution with tape on the motherboard Although I still got sound glitches on Final Fight Revenge and Advanced VG, but I didn't encounter sound glitches in any other game so far

I'll check today

@NoName141203
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I also tried the solution with tape on the motherboard Although I still got sound glitches on Final Fight Revenge and Advanced VG, but I didn't encounter sound glitches in any other game so far

Improved？

I tried Advanced VG again and no glitches, so yeah. It seems that the glitches can still happen, but the chances of that happening are now very low

I also discovered before using tape, that leaving the console play sequenced audio (for example, on Sonic Jam menus) for a while seems to temporarily decrease the chances of sound glitches (can't 100% confirm though)

@RepeatingDigits
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I removed C47 on a HST-3200 (J V0) and at first it seemed fine, but after a race of Daytona USA the audio glitch persists.

@atds55
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atds55 commented May 19, 2024 •
edited

Removi o C47 em um HST-3200 (J V0) e a princípio parecia bom, mas depois de uma corrida de Daytona EUA a falha de áudio persiste.

Did you also have audio problems with the tape on the B7 Daytona terminal?

@tzmwx
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tzmwx commented May 19, 2024

I removed C47 on a HST-3200 (J V0) and at first it seemed fine, but after a race of Daytona USA the audio glitch persists.

OK
I hope you can be more specific: has the probability of problems decreased after removing C47?

@RepeatingDigits
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I removed C47 on a HST-3200 (J V0) and at first it seemed fine, but after a race of Daytona USA the audio glitch persists.

OK I hope you can be more specific: has the probability of problems decreased after removing C47?

Not really. After further testing I'd say it's about the same, actually. I just updated to latest firmware, too.

@RepeatingDigits
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Removi o C47 em um HST-3200 (J V0) e a princípio parecia bom, mas depois de uma corrida de Daytona EUA a falha de áudio persiste.

Did you also have audio problems with the tape on the B7 Daytona terminal?

I haven't tried the tape method. If I do that, I'll lose CD Audio, right?

@tzmwx
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tzmwx commented May 19, 2024 •
edited

Removi o C47 em um HST-3200 (J V0) e a princípio parecia bom, mas depois de uma corrida de Daytona EUA a falha de áudio persiste.

Did you also have audio problems with the tape on the B7 Daytona terminal?

I haven't tried the tape method. If I do that, I'll lose CD Audio, right?

2 methods：
saroo A4，A5，A6 no CDaudio

CDmodule B7，CD audio OK

note：
Do not insert VCD cards when conducting any tests

@blorp-style
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blorp-style commented May 22, 2024 •
edited

To add, Die Hard Arcade (USA or Japan) has this issue the most consistently out of any game I’ve played, and could be considered a prime test subject.

edit: Virtua Cop 2 also has this issue consistently.

@TheUndertakerPoland
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TheUndertakerPoland commented May 22, 2024 via email

@morpheu
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morpheu commented May 22, 2024

I will try both methods and post here some results also. Question: is there some risk to damage my console attempting doing such hw hacking ?

@czapa86
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czapa86 commented May 22, 2024

How is it possible that some games are affected but some not. For instance i played hi-octane with cdaudio music without any trouble but Die Hard arcade has glitches almost instantly?

@TheUndertakerPoland
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TheUndertakerPoland commented May 22, 2024 via email

@czapa86
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czapa86 commented May 23, 2024 •
edited

Before mod. This issiue is very inconsistent. One game working good, other not.

@TheUndertakerPoland
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TheUndertakerPoland commented May 23, 2024 via email

@blorp-style
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blorp-style commented May 25, 2024 •
edited

I noticed an interesting thing today. The audio distortion is diminished to playable levels if you set the Saturn to mono instead of stereo. Tested this on Die Hard and Virtua Cop 2, which are the worst offenders I’ve seen so far. But it works even better with games that only have this issue periodically like Bomberman, Guardian Heroes, and Darius Gaiden.

The distortion is further reduced if you turn off sound effects as well, but that seems like too big a compromise.

@TheUndertakerPoland
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TheUndertakerPoland commented May 25, 2024 via email

@blorp-style
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I'm using mono and have not noticed that, maybe I should use stereo more often Wysłano z programu Outlook dla systemu Androidhttps://aka.ms/AAb9ysg
…
________________________________ From: blorp-style @.> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2024 3:45:31 AM To: tpunix/SAROO @.> Cc: TheUndertakerPoland @.>; Comment @.> Subject: Re: [tpunix/SAROO] Sega Saturn VA 0.8 USA is compatible with Saroo? (Issue #35) I noticed an interesting thing today. The audio distortion is diminished to playable levels if you set the Saturn to mono instead of stereo. Tested this on Die Hard and Virtua Cop 2, which are the worst offenders I’ve seen so far. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub<#35 (comment)>, or unsubscribehttps://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/BENW5UONU3AJ2JJLXK7RBBLZD73MXAVCNFSM6AAAAABADWHLTOVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZDCMZQGY4TKMBSGI. You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: @.***>

Strange. Do you have a CR2032 battery installed in your Saturn and you have set the system to mono in the menu settings? Or have you achieved mono by some other method?

@TheUndertakerPoland
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TheUndertakerPoland commented May 25, 2024 via email

@MFreudenthaler
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What is the best fix for this issue?

I want to use the disc Drive. If i Isolate b7 will disc drive Work?

@TheUndertakerPoland
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TheUndertakerPoland commented May 31, 2024 via email

@MFreudenthaler
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Will Audio from disc Drive Work? What is b7 used for?

@TheUndertakerPoland
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TheUndertakerPoland commented May 31, 2024 via email

@MFreudenthaler
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OK so Audio from CD will Work without Pin b7

@TheUndertakerPoland
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TheUndertakerPoland commented May 31, 2024 via email

@MFreudenthaler
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Yes the little Board inside of Saturn. So you know If the Phantom modchip works without b7?

@tzmwx
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tzmwx commented Jun 1, 2024

Will Audio from disc Drive Work? What is b7 used for?

B7 is used for VCD card. If you remove B7, The CD drive is working properly，the VCD card is not working

@tzmwx
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tzmwx commented Jun 1, 2024

Yes the little Board inside of Saturn. So you know If the Phantom modchip works without b7?

No problem，It’s OK

@tzmwx
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tzmwx commented Jun 1, 2024

What is the best fix for this issue?

I want to use the disc Drive. If i Isolate b7 will disc drive Work?

Any method is based on shortening the length of the SCSPCLK clock circuit. The use of tape to remove the B7 PIN of the small board has shortened the length by 10%, which can solve more than 80% of the problem, but the VCD card cannot be used.

If you want to solve it 100%,you need a shorter length：
Method 1:You need to cut off one circuit (shorten by 40%) or two circuits (shorten by 90%), but the disadvantage is that it damages the motherboard;

Method 2: Suitable for advanced electronic players, rearrange a shielding wire on the motherboard.

To sum up: I suggest you tape off the B7 pin

@MFreudenthaler
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I will try to short the length of trace. Where the trace begin and where it ends?

@tzmwx
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tzmwx commented Jun 2, 2024 •
edited

I will try to short the length of trace. Where the trace begin and where it ends?

You can find cutting points X1 and X2 on the bottom of the Sega Saturn motherboard.

I suggest you test cutting off X1 first, which will shorten the circuit by 40% and retain VCD function without losing any function;

However, there are individual small differences between each host. If only X1 is cut off, it still brings you a lot of noise troubles. You can cut off X1 and X2, which will shorten the circuit by 90% and lose VCD function.
IMG_5954
IMG_5953

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9 participants
@morpheu @RepeatingDigits @NoName141203 @MFreudenthaler @atds55 @tzmwx @TheUndertakerPoland @czapa86 @blorp-style