Select server (too cetralised on matrix.org is causing slowdowns) #375
Replies: 12 comments 2 replies
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It won't happen. Element was and will always be designed to promote centralisation. |
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Very open source. |
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It's open source, for example SchildiChat is an Element for with these problems fixed. |
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thanks for raising! this is a topic that we're aware of and encapsulates all the element clients, we're still considering/figuring out the best way to approach incorporating other homeservers |
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This is a really great discussion, I'm moving it to this repo and to discussions so that we don't lose the feedback and can continue to think about how we might address this. |
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I have said this before, on the issue trackers of the different Element clients among other places: When I open my app the first time (F-Droid so not totally up to date because of proprietary library issues, so I hope this is sufficiently up to date, else I'll reevaluate this) and click create account, it presents to me a screen where
When I open app.element.io, the matrix.org server is not just prefilled, but in a text field that is locked behind an edit button. |
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What about adding an input field for server address, and a text:
(The bullet points would be buttons.) |
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FWIW, joinmatrix.org is not affiliated with matrix.org and element.io, and takes some opinionated decisions when curating its list that might not align with what Element and Matrix.org want. This isnt about there being a (inferred and speculated) conflict of interest when Element and/or the Matrix Foundation promotes decentralization, but that there's a liability concern when matrix.org promotes a third-party site as an "official" list, that might or might not act out in a way that the foundation deems non-constructive. I'm not saying that there is a conflict like that right now, but that ive seen this happen at least a few times, where the community aligns with the wider interests of a business or a non-profit, and that they eventually disalign due to reasons, but the one still promotes the other, which causes strife when the community decides to boycot or hijack that promotion. I think due to these reasons, joinmatrix.org would either have to become a joint/open project with foundation supervision, or another project has to emerge that does that, before the foundation would feel comfortable promoting such a thing, as things stand right now. The situation with matrix.org itself is very tangled in an unfortunate way; The long-term intention is to get matrix to a point (with homeserver diversity, and/or with nomadic user (migration)) where the matrix.org server can be "turned off", this was a clear stated goal from the beginning, from high up. However, due to the nature of Element positioning itself as an alternative to the likes of Whatsapp, Slack, Discord, Telegram, etc. they have to have competitive edges, and they barely have any to begin with. Any friction that exists when a user signs up is a lost user, as they'll lose interest, and so the first few minutes after a user logs into
The real problem Element has here is balancing "useful" user friction by having them choose a server, with user signup retention, with user education; many of these users were never offered a choice of servers to sign up "with", many dont care, and most of them dont even know where to begin to look for "servers to sign up with". (which is comparable to gmail and hotmail, people just 'want email', they dont want difficulties) Disclaimer: I do not work for the foundation, and am only extrapolating from what I've heard and what i think the foundation feels on these topics. The foundation wants to trust, but due to events in the past, this has become rather difficult for them. |
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In this case, what about this text in the UI
Easy registration is important, but later on, when they notice that matrix.org is slow, and features are disabled (e.g. presence), then it can be extra hassle to migrate to another server than it was if they registered originally on that server. Considering these points, the best solution for this would be probably to land account migration in the spec. |
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This situation would be improved in my eyes if instead Element hosted (another) free
Pretty much like I said in my earlier post. Let me rephrase to match your explanation more precisely: This goal is not going to be reached when Element as the most popular client that is tightly entangled with matrix.org keeps promoting a central server so heavily. Hence my argument earlier that it would be kind of valid to even push EMS more strongly (no I don't want advertisement pop-ups), let alone the part where users are educated about (the ability) to self-host. |
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This sounds like a good point, I havent heard of OTWSU offering this, do you have some further information on that? |
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Among the presenters have been https://yunohost.org and https://framasoft.org have been featured multiple times, including their chatons project https://www.chatons.org/en/search/by-service?service_type_target_id=118&field_alternatives_aux_services_target_id=All&field_software_target_id=All&field_is_shared_value=All&title= OTWSU topics are archived at https://matrix.org/open-tech-will-save-us/ The ansible playbook also makes it extremely easy to host a server with all kinds of bells and whistles, though its approach seems a bit more technical than yunohost, for example. |
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I will give you my opinion about this topic, In my opinion, Matrix and Element should create a curated list of good and reliable homeservers (around 50 more or less) and then, when the user creates an account, the client (Element) randomly picks one of them, then, prompts the user for approval. This system would probably work well, considering that the list is good and that the servers are truly reliable. |
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Your use case
What would you like to do?
Why would you like to do it?
How would you like to achieve it?
Have you considered any alternatives?
Problem:
The main matrix.org server is currently too slow and overloaded.
This is another form of "centralisation".
Proposed solution:
When creating a new account, please let the user chose another server from a dropdown with at least 2 or 3 alternative servers from the list: https://joinmatrix.org/servers
Simply open the web browser redirecting to the registration page would be a perfect solution.
Additional context
No response
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