Un-nerfed Skeletons

[Megamaw]

"When you code it," they said. So I did. No excuses, now.

[Shadowmech88]

It seems a little dishonest to make the argument that there's no reason not to bring skeletons back due to their nerfs and then, once they are brought back, un-do the nerfs on which you based your argument.

[Megamaw]

i had yet to play with the nerfs.

they were way too fuckin' much. nearly diona speed, and the only racial benefit not mattering(no breathe) because amplified brute means they die instantly if any area is depressurized.

at the very least, I hope this starts up a dialogue about balance if it's not merged.

[TheFriggenSawbones]

god bless you

[Exxion]

Alright I can deal with reducing the nerfs
But you are completely removing every single possible disadvantage other than lack of chems, all at once
Take things step by step, man

[Megamaw]

i honestly dont think you guys have played skeletons to realize how awful 'no chems/pills' is

if you want to give a race a bunch of downsides, you should probably give them some upsides. right now, if this gets merged, they're still worse humans by virtue of a: no chems and b: not asimov protected.

[Shadowmech88]

if this gets merged, they're still worse humans by virtue of a: no chems

I'm pretty sure races with the NO_INJECT flag can still consume pills and drink from medicine bottles.
Additionally, their upsides are not needing to breathe and having no blood.

[Shadowmech88]

A dry skeleton weighs something like 15% what a normal human weighs.

What about keeping the brute modifier, but making skeletons faster than humans instead of slower?

[Megamaw]

see i've suggested that before but the answer was always a resounding no, and idk if that works right because iirc i remember someone saying its hard to make something faster than humans

[Shadowmech88]

It used to be. I altered the speed calculations so that it's possible now, even using a species datum. Grues, for example, are faster than humans.

[Exxion]

Even if you think that these changes are reasonable, still do them one at a time. Change it a bit. Still too weak? Change it again.
What you've done here is HALVED the brute damage they take, increased their speed by a shit ton, and removed all non-numerical drawbacks except one that is both a positive and a negative
To be entirely honest, it looks like a meme PR in this state

[IAGFPRMF]

Making them faster than other races sounds nice.

I'd rather not have assistant skeletons swarming the Nuke Ops shuttle like the old days so keep the ack (mostly) cracked

[Intigracy]

the obvious solution is to remove skeletons

[PJB3005]

Here's the way I see skeletons:

They're a literal joke that's only selectable out of humor, because they're so terrible nobody wants to select them, and nobody should ever want to other than humor.

I'm fine with buffing them but only if they can't be selected round start.

Big 👎 from me.

[Kammerjunk]

Shitter meme race is shit to play?
Oh well, whatever, nevermind.

[nuklearcellphoneg]

Skeletons are a joke race

[ghost]

Their brute mod discourages people to play a meme race so less people go around making bone puns and "ACK ACK ACK"

[Megamaw]

Whether or not we have skeletons isn't up to collabs or coders, it's up to Pomf, whether people like it or not.

even with this, they're still currently a worse pick than diona, plasmaman, vox, or human.

is there a problem with wanting to balance what we have? surely, if this is somehow 'busted', someone would have explained why by now, right?

if you have a counterproposal, I'd love to see a PR.

[Orangerush]

Crack the ACK, Play plasmamen instead!

[Shadowmech88]

even with this, they're still currently a worse pick than diona, plasmaman, vox, or human

I disagree. Your proposed changes leave them with only two downsides, one of which can be an advantage in certain situations, and the other can be remedied with a hyperzine pill if necessary.
Additionally, they have the advantages of lacking blood as well as nearly all internal organs, and not needing to breathe.
While dionae and plasmamen both have better strengths, they also have weaknesses to compensate. The skeletons' proposed downsides are very slight, to the point where they're definitely better than vox and arguably better than even humans, outside the issue of Asimov.

But the main issue here is how much you're buffing them, not just that you're buffing them at all.
Instead of halving their brute modifier and tripling their speed and giving them drinking and eating all in one go, why not split those up into a series of PRs? Buff them a little, see how that plays out, buff them a little more if necessary, et cetera?

[ihadtoregisterforthis]

Don't un-nerf skeletons, buff them sensibly.
I support the extra speed

[Blithering]

I liked the no drinking and eating parts, they were fun, even if getting chefs to blend their hard made food and inject it into a slab of meat was a pain.
That said, I would personally like to see skeletons buffed heavily and made wizard and genetics only again.

[ComicIronic]

Whether or not we have skeletons isn't up to collabs or coders, it's up to Pomf, whether people like it or not.

I mean that's really not the final decider of a lot of these issues, and it's certainly not something to hide behind to avoid criticism.

[Exxion]

If you think Pomf is going to support this, you're delusional, anyway

[Shadowmech88]

Because someone complained about them not being available at roundstart for five months.

[SonixApache]

@Intigracy you're supposed to write it in all lowercase dummy

[Ephx1]

lmao
also: "muh meme race" is still a very good reason for them not to be brought back. Spurdos when?

[Megamaw]

okay, i've gotten some good feedback on this. i think i'm ready to make a more reasonable PR in a bit.

though to be fair i've also gotten some very non-constructive meme feedback, so to those of you that didn't actually put in your two cents, get bent