Nerfs the cyborg mat synth. #16014
Nerfs the cyborg mat synth. #16014
Conversation
Nerfing other modules in hopes of people picking an absolutely terrible module is not a good way to go about things. Why not make the supply module more appealing? Allow me to list the flaws.
I certainly never pick the module when I could just be a shaft miner and actually enjoy the benefits of the position. I am hard-pressed for find a single reason that anyone would ever actually pick the module outside of being ordered to. It just isn't fun. |
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I think if you're going to remove the material synth from cyborgs the material synthesizer from the protolathe could use a bit of love, whether reduction of cartridge cost or the cost of the synthesizer itself. As it stands, it takes a pretty massive amount of metal and glass to get miniscule returns on the rarer materials which are already strongly affected by RNG on mining unless you take to doing xenobiology to obtain said materials. |
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Wouldn't it make sense to split this into two PRs for atomicity? I can see no reason why you need to make both changes simultaneously in the same PR. For instance, if people believed the cyborg mat synth should get nerfed but MoMMIs are fine as-is, they could vote accordingly. The opposite is also true: if people thought MoMMIs need a better mat synth but that engborgs don't need a nerf, they could vote like that. |
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While the fact that the supply borg sucks is undeniable, I still think the engiborg mat synth is ridiculous and makes mining a joke. I also support splitting this into two PRs. |
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Yeah the argument of making the supply module less shitty is a pretty terrible one However, they still need a way of picking up mineral sheets, because simply removing this ability without adding one makes it impossible for engiborgs to construct mineral doors/walls at all. |
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Needed change. 👍 |
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Addressing a few things here and now. This PR has grippers in mind so things like building doors and walls with your special mats should be unaffected. |
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My bad |
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@HarseTheef I may lower the cost of extreme materials or lower the cost of matter carts. But since you can still make metal and glass as an engi borg for infinite matter carts, Im mixed about this. |
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If I make changes to the protolathe mat synth, I will likely make this PR a mat synth balance PR and not just silicon mat synths. Or is that srill too improper? |
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You completely missed the point of what I was saying if all you got out of that is me saying that I don't like following my laws. That wasn't what I was saying at all. I am saying that a supply borg's supposed function does no cohere with the default silicon lawset, as well as not cohering with all other silicon lawsets. There is not a single interesting or fun aspect of the module. I would go as far as to calling it ban bait. You said in the original statement that you are looking for this to encourage people to pick the supply module. Removing features for the sake of forcing people into that ban bait module is awful. Address supply borgs if you want people to pick it. Remove the mat synth if you want it gone. Don't do half of both, bundle it together, and call it a day. |
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Each role has it's intents and uses. The MD isn't about getting ore, the sec officer isn't about getting ore, the assistant isn't about getting ore, the miner is about getting ore. A silicon's role revolves around it's laws which happen to not work well with mining, thus the silicon isn't about getting ore in the default laws case. You CAN mine, but not effectively. Same could be said for an MD, you CAN mine but you are going to have a difficult time because it's not your role's intention. Supply borgs are kinda just there to be there and it shows with how shit it's set up for the module. |
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It doesn't actually sound like you two are disagreeing |
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That's not true at all. Nothing is stopping an MD from mining just as good as, if not better than a shaft miner. There are not stats preventing such. A geneticist is actually better equipped to be a shaft miner than a shaft miner by means of default access and supplies. |
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Congrats, you got mining access as an MD. Are you really an MD at this point? |
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If what you are getting at is that you want roles to be locked more into their specific area and the remove the option for roles to have more diverse applications and to be able to accomplish more, then I am very against this PR and what it is pushing towards. |
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Good thing this PR has absolutely and exactly nothing to do with that, then. |
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The worst part is that it isn't even being removed. You are just making it so that for an engineering borg to do such, they will just have to fuel an autolathe and have a carbon mat synth the supplies with a hand one. |
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And the hand mat synth is way less OP because it actually costs something to use. |
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What I'm trying to say is that why would you pick a role that's got a poor position to do a job. I wouldn't pick MD to go mining. Same here, your laws (access in the case of an MD) are a poor fit for the job you would like to do. |
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You want to go mining? Set miner to high. |
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It costs nothing with an engineering borg fueling it. It doesn't make the slightest difference. It is just a flat borg nerf while leaving the feature in and making it more miserable for all involved. |
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Alright, that's a fair point. |
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Ok, so remove the mat synth. Sure thing. All it takes is a /* */ |
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The clear solution is to make th matsynth fuel cost rare minerals |
Shadowmech88
added
the
Balance
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It does, borgs are just snowflake. |
Oh man can you even believe the levels of ASS PAIN if you made printed power cells start with no power? |
@Exxion Code it pls |
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Also remove all oxy lockers :^) |
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Making power cells start with 0 charge is maybe 10 lines at max and a whole lot of butthurt, near infinite amounts. Just a fair warning |
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Oh I know |
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[serb vote] |
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It should stay how it is, miners either bring more then enough minerals to make it obsolete to print more or they just bring some, fuck off and die somewhere and then there are no more minerals. And |
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I can't say that I've seen plasma/uranium doors/floors used extensively in malf enough, or at all, to make that point of contention. |
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Far as I'm aware, borgs can't make uranium floors. |
N3X15
added
⛔ Requires Server Vote ⛔
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If I'm reading this code correctly, you can get at least 10000 moles of plasma out of a single plasma door EDIT: OK I was not reading it correctly Oh yeah and the higher the temperature the more you get out of it, because it finishes executing the last plasmadump no matter how far into the negatives its health would go |
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Five sheets of plasma mixed with vaporsalts: 1000 moles of plasma Doors confirmed most efficient means of converting solid plasma to gas |
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It's okay. We can leave this as is and just ban antag silicons for abusing it. Just like speed bombing. :^) |
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An argument against @SarahJohnson489 here: As much as that's a pretty cool way to go about the tools you have, I don't think we should put these kinds of creative usages of the current features above the nerf PR. SS13 is an incredibly complex game and there's always gonna be interactions. |
It can be used in both cases. Net would imply it only comes into effect when the first fails. |
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":U You guys coming back with some more materials any time soon? We're running low." In other words, forcing change in the mechanics causes the players to change their behavior. |
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How's this for a safety net:
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For what purpose do you require the spare to order some crates at cargo?
Oh, because you want to do everything yourself. |
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It is a space station and it's not a one man station, and maybe sometimes things don't work out optimally to your routine. Maybe often. I know from personal experience about having an autistic routine that you do every round which basically hinges on people positively and immediately reacting with a yes to 'can i have fourteen large beakers, can I have one of every juice and milk creamer- it's lime juice orange juice tomato juice and milk creamer, no that's milk but I will take every space milk you have, no it's milk creamer, ugh I need a full carton of each not just ten units of each in a cup, hey I need to order a crate of pizzas if you guys buy any please give me your meat pizza' etc is But it's just fine if it doesn't work out and I don't get my autistic routine done because my autistic routine is boring, because it's routine. |
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Should just add a section to the server rules saying you're legally obliged to beat a cargonian to death with the Guide to Disposals Mailing every time they fuck up. |
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The server poll ( http://ss13.moe/index.php/poll/130 ) has ended on the idea of making the borg mat synth nerfed so I will leave it untouched in the math synth balance I plan to do and leave it at is. I wish to add the multiple matter cart types you can make from other materials to the proto and/or auto lathes. Auto getting matter carts separated to use glass OR metal not both, this is reflected in the proto with the other types of materials. |
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Welcome to the emojiocracy, where uncontextual votes are king.
…On 5 Oct 2017 11:45, "clusterfack" ***@***.***> wrote:
Huh weird, when you do you buffs and nerfs separately the nerfs fail and
the buffs get added in. That's just so weird who could predict that would
happen.
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Actually, the emojiocracy seems to be in favor of the nerf. |
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The server poll was only up for 3 days while this pr has been up for a lot longer. So not as many people likely saw or got to vote on the server one. |
Jesus polls are broken but that's just a bad poll in general. Anyways, @Exxion my point was that server polls are just a worse emojiocracy because they somehow have more weight yet they always have less context. |
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THIS PR IS FOR DISCUSSION ONLY, THE CHANGES IN THIS PR DON'T REFLECT THE FINAL CHANGES AND WILL NOT BE MERGED LIKE THIS.
I plan to balance mat synths as a whole to make it so cyborg mat synths don't outperform other mat synths so largely.
-Make matter carts have varying values and make it so you can turn any type of ore to matter carts. Reverse mat synth.
-Make the mommi and cyborg synth on type of synth where it has the starting list of the mommi one but cannot scan materials.-After an upgrade module is applied to a cyborg/mommi they can use the unlocked mat synth where it can scan mineral sheets like it's currently.
-Balance the cost of energy used in silicon mat synths when generating sheets. You can make several super power cells for the cost of one matter cart right now, meaning that the cyborg synth can outperform the handheld one by a long shot in terms of efficiency.
-The upgrade for silicons will be similar in cost to make as the handheld mat synth's cost.
(vote failed so not happening)
For a long time, cyborgs have been abused to create infinite materials making miners feel unnecessary after they bring a single drop of materials as well as being able to create materials that should be hard to obtain like phazon. This removes ore synth from cyborgs and might make the supply module a bit more commonly picked by cyborgs that want to provide materials. This effectively makes the cyborg synth have the mommi mat synths scanning abilities. Borgs can still scan some things like plastic, carpet, and some other things but not minerals. This also gives cyborgs plasma stuff (plasteel, plasma glass, R plasma glass) to make up for the loss of the old materials.Mommi changes moved to a separate PR. #16016I know this PR is going to get some heavy resistance from many cyborg players, but I think it's time for cheesing mats to be fixed.
🆑