[css-color-6] add color functions for some (or all) compositing/blending operations

[dbaron]

In #7358 (comment) @LeaVerou wrote:

Whatever default we pick, there will be cases where it's wrong, so it would be nice to offer a way out. How can the author select what the background is composited on? What if we add a color-over() function to do alpha compositing? Pretty sure there are other use cases for it too, and it should be relatively easy to implement.

In today's telecon, for the same reason (and I think not having read Lea's comment) I suggested something similar:

<dbaron> Seems like what Adam's suggesting could also be done with a composite(A over B) color function or similar rather than additional syntax for the contrast function.

In other words, what I was thinking was roughly a composite( <color> <composite-mode> <color> ) function, which has a slightly larger feature space. (Except I didn't want <composite-mode> exactly, because I'd rather not have the source- and dest- prefixes in this case.)

But it's possible we might also want to allow choosing the <blend-mode>.

Opening this issue because it seems like this side discussion probably deserves its own issue, and we can decide whether or not we actually want such a feature.

[LeaVerou]

Thanks for opening the issue?

Are there use cases for every possible <composite-mode>? We don't usually add things for the sake of completeness.
<blend-mode> seems somewhat more useful, but still not nearly as much as simple alpha compositing. I think something simple like color-over() has more chances to be implemented than a bigger "all the things" function.

[dbaron]

I think there are use cases in so far as there are use cases for setting composite modes or blend modes -- combined with the use case for wanting to use such a color function as part of a color contrast function. That said, CSS currently exposes only the blend modes and not the composite mode (which seems a little odd to me).

I admit that partly I suggested the composite mode because they produced a clear syntax with the mode as the operator.

[LeaVerou]

Composite modes and blend modes operate on entire elements. Are there any use cases for isolated colors, that are NOT covered by existing syntax?

[nt1m]

I was actually going to file this issue.

Would the proposed function here allow achieving the same results as this?

background-color: <base-opaque-color>;
background-image: linear-gradient(<semi-transparent-color>, <semi-transparent-color>);

I suggested color-mix() to someone facing this, and I realized that it wouldn't work because you would end up with a semi-transparent color. Maybe some fancy mix involving relative color syntax and color-mix() might work, but at this point, it's more convoluted than it should be.

I'm happy to file a new issue if this use-case isn't covered.

cc @svgeesus @weinig @mdubet

[nt1m]

I think even a simple version that doesn't take a composite-mode would be useful here:
color-composite(<semi-transparent-color>, <base-opaque-color>)

[weinig]

We should consider if extending color-mix with an additional optional blend-mode or composite-mode is viable.

[LeaVerou]

I’m still missing a discussion on use cases. How can we design syntax, and discuss if we need a new function or an extension of color-mix() without a sense of the usage scenarios this would be useful in?!

[nt1m]

#8431 (comment) describes exactly what I would use such a function for. Someone was asking me how they could turn a semi-transparent color into an opaque color by blending one of top of the other.

I'm not sure color-mix() is the right place to put this given color-mix() also supports percentages, but the use-case is definitely there.

[svgeesus]

Some thoughts:

• blending depends on the notion of foreground and background/backdrop, which color-mix() doesn't have
• blending applies to arbitrary image inputs, not just solid colors
• Porter-Duff compositing relies on foreground/background distinction, which color-mix() does not have.

These could be added, but currently color-mix(in space, color1, color2) is exactly the same as color-mix(in space, color2, color1) and adding a foreground/background distinction we would lose that property.

[LeaVerou]

#8431 (comment) describes exactly what I would use such a function for. Someone was asking me how they could turn a semi-transparent color into an opaque color by blending one of top of the other.

I saw that comment, but that is not really a use case, it's an attempted solution to a use case. What were they trying to do that required this operation? What was the actual problem they were trying to solve?

[nt1m]

The person wanted to blend one semi-transparent system color (-apple-[...]-fill only available to UA sheets) on top of an opaque one (Canvas) to get an opaque color.

[nt1m]

I could see people wanting this when working with design systems too that have both opaque & semi-transparent colors

[LeaVerou]

So are there any use cases that require more than simple alpha compositing?

[nt1m]

So are there any use cases that require more than simple alpha compositing?

Not that I'm aware of, I would be satisfied with a color-over(<foreground> over <background>) syntax or something.

[LeaVerou]

We can still do color-composite(<color> over <color>) that has potential for future expansion, should the use cases arise.

[LeaVerou]

Looking at it again, that seems unnecessarily wordy. Let’s just do color-over(<color> / <color>). Or even color-over(<color>#), which covers multiple operations without the need for nesting function calls.

[benface]

I was looking for this! Thought for sure this was possible with color-mix(), but I guess it's not. color-over() or color-composite() would be great!

[svgeesus]

So, in terms of specifying this: we should presumably reference General Formula for Compositing and Blending from Compositing 1. However, that spec is silent about colorspace, at least in the normative parts, and simply refers to "the premultiplied color".

The examples use Red Green and Blue, natural given the age of the spec, and at the time sRGB would be assumed. The more complex parts such as blend modes even use the NTSC luma formula (operating on gamma-encoded RGB values)

Lum(C) = 0.3 x Cred + 0.59 x Cgreen + 0.11 x Cblue

but that doesn't affect the simple color-over(<color>#) being proposed here. Assuming sRGB though, implies either

1. Forcing all colors to be in the sRGB gamut, which is undesirable, or
2. Converting all colors to extended-range sRGB and verifying that the formulae do something sensible with negative component values, or component values greater than 1

I recall hearing that on some systems, compositing happens in the native RGB colorspace of the display (eg P3).

[svgeesus]

Is anyone arguing against this? If not we could do an async resolution.

PROPOSED Resolution: Add a color-over(<color>#) function to CSS Color 6 to do simple source-over compositing

[nt1m]

What happens when you put more than 2 colors?

[svgeesus]

What happens when you put more than 2 colors?

You start from the end, and do them pairwise. In other words Edited to correct syntax

color-over(var(--col1), var(--col2), var(--col3)) is the same as
color-over(var(--col1) color-over(var(--col2), var(--col3)))

As @LeaVerou said

which covers multiple operations without the need for nesting function calls.

[astearns]

The CSSWG will automatically accept this resolution one week from now if no objections are raised here. Anyone can add an emoji to this comment to express support. If you do not support this resolution, please add a new comment.

PROPOSED Resolution: Add a color-over(#) function to CSS Color 6 to do simple source-over compositing

[benface]

(Not an objection because I would love to have this feature in CSS, but note that there are only 7 participants in this thread, so only 7 people got a notification with a chance to object / propose alternatives.)

[astearns]

@benface that’s fair, but note that I also posted this to www-style (https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2024Jul/0012.html) and the resolution is not entirely binding. If this resolution passes then we will add it to the spec draft, but I expect we will continue to debate syntax and even whether we should remove it from the draft.

Nothing is ever final in CSS specs until it’s interoperably implemented and web content depends on those implementation details.

[fantasai]

I think I'd prefer to take up this topic on a call.

[astearns]

@fantasai can you give us some indication of what you would like to change about the proposed resolution?

[fantasai]

Well, first off I don't think there's clarity in this thread about what the proposal actually is. :) For example, Chris's proposed resolution uses a comma-separated syntax, but his subsequent examples are space-separated.

But in general I think it's better to discuss non-trivial issues on a call (for a variety of reasons that aren't specific to this issue), and I don't think adding a new feature can be considered trivial.

[svgeesus]

Well, first off I don't think there's clarity in this thread about what the proposal actually is. :) For example, Chris's proposed resolution uses a comma-separated syntax, but his subsequent examples are space-separated.

My mistake.

I don't think adding a new feature can be considered trivial.

Fair enough.

[fantasai]

I also suggest picking a name that can later accept different compositing/blending operations as the first argument (similar to how we set up parameters for a gradient at the start of a gradient stop list), since it seems reasonably likely we'll want to expand in that direction at some point.

(I don't think we need an operator per list item; if authors are getting that fancy, they can nest these functions.)

[nt1m]

I agree with @LeaVerou that <composite-mode> is actually not that useful, since we're dealing with the same shape (it'd essentially be the same as reordering the color list to change the composite mode). <blend-mode> seems more useful.

I would suggest either:

color-over([<blend-mode>, ]? <color>#)

or (based on @fantasai's internal suggestion):

color-layer([<blend-mode>, ]? <color>#)

(potentially the blend mode could be preceded by the using keyword, no strong opinion)

[svgeesus]

color-layer might be more self explanatory than color-over (particularly by those unfamiliar with Porter-Duff terminology).

[css-meeting-bot]

The CSS Working Group just discussed [css-color-6] add color functions for some (or all) compositing/blending operations, and agreed to the following:

• RESOLVED: color-layers([<blend-mode>, ]? <color>#)
• RESOLVED: function name is "color-layers()"

The full IRC log of that discussion

<ChrisL> q+
<Rossen4> ack ChrisL
<matthieud> ChrisL: you want to composite color1 on color2
<matthieud> ntim: currently web devs need background gradient to composite one color on top of the other.
<TabAtkins> +1 to the functionality too, seems easy and moderately useful
<matthieud> ChrisL: proposition is using color-layer
<fantasai> color-layer([<blend-mode>, ]? <color>#)
<astearns> slight preference for color-over, as I associate *-layer with stacks of things
<matthieud> ntim: either color-over() or color-layer() and inside the function you have a comma separated list of colors and optional blend-mode
<miriam> layer-colors() reads better to me
<matthieud> ChrisL: optional blend-mode preference, if not specified you get the default
<matthieud> fantasai: we agree on the arguments of the function [<blend-mode>, ]? <color>#
<Rossen4> ack miriam
<ChrisL> q+
<ntim> q+
<matthieud> miriam: color-layer read weirds because it's not a single layer
<matthieud> miriam: proposal for layer-colors() or color-over()
<fantasai> color-layers?
<Rossen4> ack ChrisL
<Rossen4> ack ntim
<matthieud> ChrisL: all color functions start with color-*
<ChrisL> ntim++
<matthieud> ntim: consistency with color-mix()
<miriam> color-stack(), color-over()…
<matthieud> ChrisL: color-stack() sounds like stacking context, weird
<fantasai> POLL: A) color-over B) color-layer C) color-stack
<fantasai> D) color-layers
<nicole> D
<fantasai> not A
<astearns> A
<matthieud> D
<ntim> A or B (no strong opinion)
<Rossen4> D B
<schenney> B
<ChrisL> D
<TabAtkins> d
<miriam> A C or D
<kbabbitt> A > D > B> C
<schenney> Change: D
<ethanjv> D > A
<masonf> someone needs to write some code to see which option won.
<nicole> haha
<matthieud> Rossen4: based on first choice color-layers() win
<ChrisL> \0/
<fantasai> RESOLVED: color-layers([<blend-mode>, ]? <color>#)
<matthieud> RESOLVED: function name is "color-layers()"

[LeaVerou]

Big -1 to this new color-layers() name, to the point I'd consider objecting.

This is a function creating a <color>, not returning a layer of any sort (or multiple layers as the current name implies!). As an author, I find it incredibly confusing. color-over() was much more natural, and this has nothing to do with Porter-Duff. You're literally putting a color over another and just optionally specifying the blending mode. This is how you'd talk about it in natural language.

color-blend() or color-overlay() would also be fine, and I could live with color-stack(). But gosh not color-layers().

[facelessuser]

I'm not sure I would immediately think color-layers() is that bad of a name. But in the plural form, I could see it being interpreted as a plural noun when compared to something like color-mix() which is used like a verb.

Something like color-layer() may remove possible confusion and imply the function layers the colors on top of each other no differently than color-overlay() overlays colors and doesn't return an overlay (noun). Context matters. In reality though, I have no strong feelings either way.

I don't think either instantly calls to mind Porter-Duff more than the other. Mainly people who know how compositing works are the ones that would make the association, and whether you use layer, overlay, over, stack, or blend Porter Duff still applies. Maybe all the Porter Duff methods aren't desired to be exposed, but at the very least you would be using "source over" if all you expose is blend modes.

Out of all the suggestions, I probably don't like color-stack() if I'm being honest, but that is completely subjective as I have no strong argument against it, I just don't like it 🙃. I probably like color-overlay() more than color-over() just because color-overlay() seems more descriptive (to me) as to what is being done, but ultimately I'm fairly indifferent.

[benface]

color-overlay() is great 👍

[nt1m]

@fantasai's suggestion of layers comes from background-layers fwiw (nothing to do with Porter-duff), just to create a parallel between the two, given the ordering is from top to bottom in both cases.

If I'd choose another name, I'd choose either:

• color-over() (not a huge fan of overlay since it has other significations)
• color-layer() (Using layer as a verb, like mix is used as a verb in color-mix())

Not a fan of color-blend() (too close to color-mix()) or color-stack().