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About Tashkil : long vowel marks are called Madd. #51

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ntounsi opened this issue May 3, 2023 · 5 comments · Fixed by #75
Closed

About Tashkil : long vowel marks are called Madd. #51

ntounsi opened this issue May 3, 2023 · 5 comments · Fixed by #75
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@ntounsi
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ntounsi commented May 3, 2023

https://www.w3.org/TR/i18n-glossary/#dfn-tashkil
"These include several subtypes: harakat (short vowel marks), tanwin (postnasalized or long vowel marks), shaddah (consonant gemination mark), and sukun (to mark lack of a following vowel)."

  1. s/tanwin (postnasalized or long vowel marks)/tanwin (postnasalized, i.e. extra NOON sound at the end of a noun and marked by double harakat.)
    See e.g. https://en.al-dirassa.com/tanween-double-vowel-marks-lesson-3/

  2. "Long vowel mark" is called "Madd" (literally extension, prologation) and is marked by Alef for long A, Waw for long U or Yeh for long I
    See e.g. https://en.al-dirassa.com/the-long-vowel-marks-arabic-free-course-lesson-4/

May be add "Madd" to your list of subtypes of tashkil (harakat..., tanwin..., madd..., shaddah..., sukun...?

@aphillips
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@r12a This sounds good to me. Are there other places where this would be picked up?

@aphillips aphillips added the enhancement New feature or request label Feb 5, 2024
@r12a
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r12a commented Feb 7, 2024

The first redefinition (tanwin) seems ok, but we should replace 'extra NOON sound' with 'extra /n/ sound' (using appropriate markup for the IPA). I agree that talking about a double harakat makes more sense than saying 'long vowel mark'. (I think potnasalised and long both qualify 'vowel marks', though that's not clear in the original.)

The second redefinition (madd) seems a little more problematic to me, because many people will know the word madd from آ U+0622: ARABIC LETTER ALEF WITH MADDA ABOVE, where the madd refers to the diacritic which is actually a hamza (not tashkil) above a long vowel (aleph). I'm not sure whether that will cause confusion for some people. Note also that we tend to refer to the long a, i, u vowels as matres lectionis, rather than using the arabic word madd, but 'long vowel' is in my opinion a better way to describe them for english speakers.

@r12a
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r12a commented Mar 28, 2024

I think we should edit the glossary to use Najib's definition of tanwin, substituting /n/ for NOON.

I propose NOT to include the definition of madd, since this is a definition for tashkil, and because the entry is already long enough and is in danger of turning into a tutorial, rather than a definition;

@aphillips aphillips self-assigned this Mar 28, 2024
aphillips added a commit to aphillips/i18n-glossary that referenced this issue Mar 28, 2024
Per the 2024-03-28 teleconference, I modified the description of
_tanwin_ using @ntounsi's suggested text.

I modified the suggested text slightly:
- replacing 'i.e.' with 'that is'
- replacing NOON with IPA 'n' (per @r12a)
- minor English edits

Per Richard's comment, I didn't include 'madd'.
@ntounsi
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ntounsi commented Apr 4, 2024

For tanwin, may be replace “double harakat” with “double similar harakat”.
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@aphillips
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@ntounsi I made the change. Please see the pull request here.

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