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Devanagari: 3.3 Font Styles - verify usage of bold, italic, underline for script, get usage specimens #27

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alolita opened this issue Oct 1, 2018 · 7 comments
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drafting l:hi Hindi, Devanagari script

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@alolita
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alolita commented Oct 1, 2018

https://w3c.github.io/iip/gap-analysis/deva-gap.html#fontstyle

Online publishing has allowed font styles such as bold and italics to be used. Traditionally, there are no font styles applied to Devanagari such as bold, italics, underline. These font styles are not native to usage of Devanagari script and are a Latinization based on some DTP packages and older printing presses providing such type styles.

Using bold or italics reduces readability / usability of Devanagari fonts.

If such styles are being used, they need to be documented with specimens of usage.

Call for action: Need specimens of published text in Devanagari using bold, italics, underline styles.

@r12a
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r12a commented Oct 1, 2018

Does devanagari use other approaches for highlighting parts of the text in ways that correspond to the use of italics and bold in English? (For example, Japanese traditionally uses small emphasis marks alongside characters, rather than italicisation.)

@r12a
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r12a commented Oct 1, 2018

Fwiw:

Here's an example of italicisation from Wikipedia

screen shot 2018-10-01 at 12 18 04

@tiroj
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tiroj commented Oct 2, 2018

Properly designed weight variants of Indic scripts are viable in typography, but are typically constrained on the heavier end by the complexity of shapes involved. This means that the maximum weight of one script may be lighter than that of another.

I do see italic, i.e. slanted, Devanagari and other scripts used, even though fonts have almost never been designed for this purpose, i.e. the fonts are mechanically slanted versions of the upright, with all the distortions of stroke modulation and weight that this entails.

We get requests from clients to provide obliqued fonts for Indic scripts simply because they insist on some visual effect when a user clicks the [i] button.

@alolita alolita added l:hi Hindi, Devanagari script drafting labels Oct 3, 2018
@alolita
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alolita commented Oct 5, 2018

Discussion Notes from Oct 5 IIP meeting on this issue:

Bold and Italic font styles:

  • Although bold and italic are not natively used for hand-written text in Devanagari, both Microsoft and CDAC implemented fonts supporting bold and italic styles starting early 2000s. Microsoft added weights to support bold in Devanagari and other Indic scripts.
  • Abhijit Dutta noted TDIL sponsored incorporation of bold and italic styles for Devanagari which was implemented by CDAC in their fonts. The idea to implement all styles that existed for Latin scripts was reinforced by TDIL.
  • Vivek Pani noted earlier fonts like Akriti, Srilipi did not support font styles such as bold, italic.

Strikethrough:
Is supported for Devanagari and other Indic scripts for crossing out text.

Underlines, Overlines:
Are / Should not be supported in Devanagari

Recommendation:
Discourage bold, italic for Devanagari as a font style - use with discretion / at your own risk
Strikethrough should be supported.
Underlines and overlines not allowed.

Action Items:

  1. Add specimens for each font style
  2. Add links to other documentation (e.g. HTML spec)

@tiroj
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tiroj commented Oct 5, 2018

Although bold and italic are not natively used for hand-written text in Devanagari
...
Discourage bold, italic for Devanagari as a font style

Weight distinction isn't typically a feature of hand-writing in any script: most writers tend to use a single width of pen, and indicate emphasis in a variety of ways, e.g. underlining, which are then interpreted in typography according to script-specific conventions. Weight distinction is frequently a feature in other kinds of manual lettering though, such as sign-painting.

Use of bold types, especially in titling, is a feature of the typography of Indian scripts dating back to the 19th Century, so definitely precedes the support provided in Microsoft and CDAC fonts and software. They have been used in both book and newspaper publishing in South Asia throughout the 20th Century, in metal type, phototype, and pre-DTP digital typesetting systems.

A couple of years ago, we were commissioned by a Kolkata newspaper publisher to design a new Extra Bold typeface to complement their existing Regular and Bold weight fonts. Both the Regular and Bold are used in text in their publications, and the new Extra Bold is used in headlines.

I think it is a mistake to 'discourage bold' type style for Devanagari and other Indian scripts.

Italics are an entirely different matter. One doesn't see them at all in Indic script typography until the phototypesetting era, when it became possible to mechanically slant the image of type. Slanting is not characteristic of Indian writing, and has not evolved as a secondary style in the way that the European pairing of roman and italic has. I definitely support the recommendation to discourage use of italic styling of Devanagari and other Indian scripts.

@tiroj
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tiroj commented Oct 5, 2018

Examples of different weights of metal type in the same size from the famour Nirnaya Sagar Type Foundry. From Naik, Typography of Devanagari, 1st ed. Bombay 1965.

img_8920

@vivekpani
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Indeed! Bold has always been in use in printed text (and even in hand caligraphy in designs of sign boards and many other such use cases). Text emphasis using underline or italics are not seen in Indian languages.

Below is what Mohanty had to say when I asked him a week ago about design of italics, underline, overline or strike through for Indian fonts (Bold was not in question)

_1. I have designed several italic fonts at cdac for indic scripts, where ever application supports it works. (That is why ISFOC scheme is very functional).

  1.  Practically italic texts in Indic languages is not much readable therefore rarely in use.
    
  2.  Underline makes Indic text unreadable.
    
  3.   Strike through also distorts Indic text to a very high level, but this feature may be used on browsers for few words at a time.
    
  4.   Over lining looks to be a fancy attempt to me. This also will equally distort Indic texts especially for top Matras._ 
    

His recommendation is to discourage Italics, Underline and Overline.

@alolita alolita changed the title Devanagari: 2.3 Font Styles - verify usage of bold, italic, underline for script, get usage specimens Devanagari: 3.3 Font Styles - verify usage of bold, italic, underline for script, get usage specimens Apr 6, 2019
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